Just a quick note of thanks to Athena for resurrecting this group, I
hope it fare's as well (or better) than it's previous 2 or 3
incarnations.

LVX
AVP

--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Frater A.:V:.P" <Frater_AVP@c...>
wrote:
> Just a quick note of thanks to Athena for resurrecting this group, I
> hope it fare's as well (or better) than it's previous 2 or 3
> incarnations.
>
> LVX
> AVP

Well this group helped me out during my 6 months, then it went and
vanished LOL.  So I am restarting it :)
Thanks for uploading the Abramelin pdfs btw.

Athena
www.nightshademagic.com

You are most welcome, we can't expect everyone to walk in here with a
thourough working knowledge of the work, so I figured I would go ahead
and provide a place for them to start.

LVX
AVP

im looking forward to this group becoming pretty active , and cant
wait to make some kind of contribution. i would like to know though ,
those who completed the ritual, was it  done along non christian
lines.? i havent read the books by  some one who completed it  so i
wouldnt know if they explained it in this way.
mike

This question is directed at those members who have actually completed
the operation...

If you had known then, what you know now, what would you have done
differently?

Muahahaha...
LVX
AVP

Hmmm... I don't really know if I would have done anything
*specifically* different.  I may have liked to incorporate some
material from Dehn's presentation of the German original of the Book
of Abramelin.  Plus a minor point or two I might have done different-
like cutting out TV watching for *at least* the final two months.
(Which I did not do myself at the time.)

However, in teaching me the Sacred Magick, my HGA has led me through
deep studies of shamanism, Gnosticism and Solomonic mysticism.  I knew
a lot less about these things when I performed Abramelin, yet I have
learned that Abramelin is based primarily upon them.  Had I known
that, I think I could have done the Operation with a much more focused
Will or Intention.  As it was, I was the *only* person I knew who was
performing the Operation AND trying to do it according to the Book of
Abramelin itself.  So I really felt like I was flying blind most of
the time, with little support as to what I should expect.

Of course, thank God I knew a Santero who taught me about Ocha along
the way.  (An operation like Abramelin where an Orisha is placed into
your head.)  That was a huge help.

LVX
Aaron


--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Frater A.:V:.P" <Frater_AVP@c...>
wrote:
> This question is directed at those members who have actually
completed
> the operation...
>
> If you had known then, what you know now, what would you have done
> differently?
>
> Muahahaha...
> LVX
> AVP

Aaron!

So glad to see you here! I had hoped you might catch wind of this
little endeavor... anyway, now you know why I have been missing in
action for a while.

Well, down to business (I just don't have that much time LOL), I was
wondering if you would mind sharing some specifics about the changes
you would have incorporated from the German version. I myself have
never read that one, and as I start soon I would love to know a bit
more about it...

--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <Aaron@L...> wrote:

> ...  I may have liked to incorporate some material from Dehn's
> presentation of the German original of the Book of Abramelin...
>
> LVX
> Aaron

It goes away and comes back.  This is already becoming something
traditional.  :-)

+

Hi Aaron;

> I may have liked to incorporate some material from Dehn's
> presentation of the German original of the Book of Abramelin.

Maybe you should present that material here.  We should probably
collect the important relevant info together, so we know what to
upload next time the Abramelin group comes back. (preparedness)


> Plus a minor point or two I might have done different-
> like cutting out TV watching for *at least* the final two months.
> (Which I did not do myself at the time.)

:-) ;)


> As it was, I was the *only* person I knew who was performing the
> Operation AND trying to do it according to the Book of Abramelin
> itself.  So I really felt like I was flying blind most of
> the time, with little support as to what I should expect.

The Beauty of this group is that it provides moral support and
education for those with an interest in the Operation.

+

"Aaron" <Aaron@L...> wrote:
> However, in teaching me the Sacred Magick, my HGA has led me through
> deep studies of shamanism, Gnosticism and Solomonic mysticism.  I
> knew a lot less about these things when I performed Abramelin, yet I
> have learned that Abramelin is based primarily upon them.  Had I
> known that, I think I could have done the Operation with a much more
> focused Will or Intention.  As it was, I was the *only* person I
> knew who was performing the Operation AND trying to do it according
> to the Book of Abramelin itself.

Did you use a child during the invocation of the HGA part of the
operation?

Michael Johnson

Just a quick question...

What shape and size would you recommend for the silver lamen?

Thanks,
Danyael

Greetings, Frater!

I wish I could help you with your question, but I'm afraid we are
both in the same boat.  While I have read the introduction to Dehn's
book online, the book itself hasn't become available yet so far as I
can tell.  (It's available in German, but I don't read German.)  I'm
waiting for its release so I can see what it has in it, and then
I'll write my own Abramelin book.

Of course, we all know that the German original has the completed
Talismans.  I used Mathers' incomplete ones - but I don't see that
as a real problem.  They were present and consecrated during the
Operation I performed.  When I'm ready to do so, I'll complete the
very same Talismans and use them.

The intro I read also mentioned a "seven-sided figure" to be used
with the HGA - whereas I used Mathers' "square plate of silver."  I
would have used the 7-sided version had I known about it.  But this
is also no big deal.  I have my square plate of silver- which was
actually the cover to a small wedding photo-album- and it serves its
purpose very well.  (What I did find fascinating, though, is that my
HGA- shortly after the Operation- requested that I give her an old
Enochian Seal of Truth I had made from wood.  I can't use it for
real Enochian magick, as it isn't made of beeswax.  So, the wooden
Seal sits under the Altar-cloth in my Oratory, with the Square Plate
of Silver on top of it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out years
later that I was *supposed* to have a seven-sided figure there all
along!)  :)

Finally, of course, we also know that the original Operation was
composed of three periods of SIX months each, rather than the three
periods of TWO months outlined by Mathers.  This one I'm up in the
air about:  I don't know if I would have done the full year and half
or not.  I guess I probably would have, and my girlfriend has talked
about doing it that way as well.  But, since I used the shortened
version, I'm happy to stick with it.  It's not like I haven't been
working the Abramelin system for far longer than a year and a half
since then...  I do think my work would have been easier had I done
the full version, though...

LVX
Aaron



--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Frater A.:V:.P" <Frater_AVP@c...>
wrote:
> Aaron!
>
> So glad to see you here! I had hoped you might catch wind of this
> little endeavor... anyway, now you know why I have been missing in
> action for a while.
>
> Well, down to business (I just don't have that much time LOL), I
was
> wondering if you would mind sharing some specifics about the
changes
> you would have incorporated from the German version. I myself have
> never read that one, and as I start soon I would love to know a
bit
> more about it...
>
> --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <Aaron@L...> wrote:
>
> > ...  I may have liked to incorporate some material from Dehn's
> > presentation of the German original of the Book of
Abramelin...
> >
> > LVX
> > Aaron

--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Michael C Johnson"
<john9454@b...> wrote:

> Did you use a child during the invocation of the HGA part of the
> operation?

I wanted to - but I did not have access to such a child at the
time.  None of my occultist friends had a child the right age, and
there was *no way* I was going to involve a non-occultist's child in
a magickal operation.  (While it is hardly dangerous to the child-
as some have claimed- that would mean little to a prosecutor who
wants to see the "evil devil-worshipper" put in jail for "ritual
child abuse.")

However, had I had access to an acceptable child, I would have
brought them in.  I would do so today as well.

Meanwhile, the only function of the child is to enter the Oratory a
single time, and play "pretend" with your Angel.  The Angel may then
give the child instructions on what you should do over the following
days, to make up for errors you've commited during the previous
months.  As I've said, this is harmless - as an HGA is not going to
pose ANY danger to a child.  (After all, the Angel isn't entering
the child's head!)

I had to wing-it, I'm afraid.  The Book calls for two talismans to
be painted on two silk veils.  One white, to be worn by the child,
and the other black to be worn by the aspirant.  I painted both
Talismans on a single white veil and did it alone.  (I followed the
instructions, otherwise, as if the child were there.)  Were I to do
this same thing again, I would go ahead and make both veils.  The
white one I would lay over the Altar, and I would wear the black one
as I should have done.

At any rate, the result came out Ok.  As I said, I followed the
instructions - standing at the doorway, not looking at the Altar,
prostrating and reciting the necessary Psalms, etc.  And, in fact, I
*did* recieve the necessary instructions to balance out any errors I
had made during the six moons.  It actually came to me in the form
of a very old hip-hop song that started to run through my head right
there in the Oratory, and then wouldn't leave for the rest of that
entire day.  In fact, it was only a few lines of that song that kept
repeating themselves to me:

"You've got to pray!
Pray!
You've got to pray!
Pray!
You've got to pray, just to make it today!"

My friends have never let me live down the fact that my first-ever
message from my Holy Guardian Angel was in the form of an old hip-
hop song...  :):):)

LVX
Aaron

Greetings!

I suppose mine is about five inches by six inches.  It was the cover
to a small wedding photo album I found in the mall.  It was square
(or, actually, slightly rectangular) and was completely blank so
that newlywed couples could have any image or message they wanted
engraved upon it.  Of course, I had nothing engraved upon it.  I cut
it off of the photo album, and then used the album itself to store
the Talismans.

The Lamen sits on the Altar in my Oratory, covered with a white
linen cloth.  I uncover it once a week when I spend my Saturday (or
Sunday) quality time with my HGA.  I don't actually stare into it
much.  I tend to close my eyes, place my fingertips on it, and off I
go!  ;)

LVX
Aaron


--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Nightshademagic dot com
<oipteaapdoce@g...> wrote:
> You mean the silver that you skry your HGA in right?
> I used a 3" x 3" square one, the size of a post it note :) It
worked well,
> and was within my budget.
> I still have it of course, and bring it out about once a month...
>
> Athena
> www.nightshademagic.com <http://www.nightshademagic.com>
>
> On 9/6/05, Frater A.:V:.P <Frater_AVP@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Just a quick question...
> >
> > What shape and size would you recommend for the silver lamen?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Danyael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.nightshademagic.com <http://www.nightshademagic.com>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evocations/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abramelin

Greetings!

I've just uploaded my Abramelin pictures to the photos section. What
you see there is what I actually performed the Operation with.  Soon,
I hope to get some pics of my current set-up (which is much more
elaborate).

I have also placed a link to my Holy Guardian Angel / Abramelin essay
to the links section.  (And, in case anyone needs it, there is also a
translation of the essay into Portugese.)

Have fun!

LVX
Aaron

Hello again,

I know it seems like I am all questions, but the closer it comes to
time to start, the more I find that I haven't considered... LOL

Anyway, here is my situation and my question...

I have a spare bedroom that I am performing this operation in. It
has a window which opens to the east, and a closet in the north.

I had originally planned on setting up a 2" deep by about 15-20"
square box of river sand in the closet to utilize it as my "terrace"
and then use the rest of the room as my oratory (10'x10').

The more that I read this, and the more that I think about it, it
occurs to me that there is no need to use the whole room as the
oratory. That it would be just as proper of me to use a curtained
off area beside the window (thanks to Aaron's photos) and simply put
the river sand somewhere in the north side of the room.

Anyway... the meat of my question is... how large should the Oratory
be? And what suggestions (if any) do you have for handling
an "indoor terrace"?

I thank you all again for the wonderful insight you are providing.

LVX
AVP

Hello

I have posted a few pictures taken during my Abramelin Working in 2004.

With regard to current discussions, my Silver platen was discovered,
with synchroncity, in a home-decor shop two days before the Working
commenced, and is about 4" square.

I could not offer any advice 'in retrospect' as the working is truly
considered as a self-extracting program. When you are called to its
performance, you will read the instructions many times over, and find
what you require. The rest will reveal itself as written. That is the
graceful and divine nature of this working.

In the Great Work

Frater F.P.
http://www.kabbalahcourse.com

Care Frater

I was 'moved' from one house to another during the Operation, as
part of the blessing of the work. My first residence, where I
commenced, had a window-ledge on which I placed a large glass tray
containing sand for the 'terrace'.

In the second residence, I had a large attic space above an old Mill
by a river, which was sectioned in two by a sliding door. I
continued to use the glass tray even though I now had a
large 'terrace' area, and found it to be fitting for the purposes to
which it became used.

We had not planned to move during the Operation, and indeed it
seemed impossible, but I was 'informed' one night "Prepare to move"
and five weeks later I was in a new County, with a new Job, and a
new house, perfectly suited to the conclusion of the Operation. In
fact, when I looked around the attic space, with its East facing
circular window and terrace area, I saw four large bags of sand just
waiting ...

Do not underestimate this Working ... in my experience, it changed
my life many times over, and continues to do so on an hourly basis,
even compared to some twenty years prior esoteric experience, this
Operation is quite simply of another order.

In the Great Work

Frater F.P.
http://www.kabbalahcourse.com


--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Frater A.:V:.P" <Frater_AVP@c...>
wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I know it seems like I am all questions, but the closer it comes
to
> time to start, the more I find that I haven't considered... LOL
>
> Anyway, here is my situation and my question...
>
> I have a spare bedroom that I am performing this operation in. It
> has a window which opens to the east, and a closet in the north.
>
> I had originally planned on setting up a 2" deep by about 15-20"
> square box of river sand in the closet to utilize it as
my "terrace"
> and then use the rest of the room as my oratory (10'x10').
>
> The more that I read this, and the more that I think about it, it
> occurs to me that there is no need to use the whole room as the
> oratory. That it would be just as proper of me to use a curtained
> off area beside the window (thanks to Aaron's photos) and simply
put
> the river sand somewhere in the north side of the room.
>
> Anyway... the meat of my question is... how large should the
Oratory
> be? And what suggestions (if any) do you have for handling
> an "indoor terrace"?
>
> I thank you all again for the wonderful insight you are providing.
>
> LVX
> AVP

Aaron wrote:

> --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Michael C Johnson"
> <john9454@b...> wrote:
>
> > Did you use a child during the invocation of the HGA part of the
> > operation?
>
> I wanted to - but I did not have access to such a child at the
> time.  None of my occultist friends had a child the right age, and
> there was *no way* I was going to involve a non-occultist's child in
> a magickal operation.  (While it is hardly dangerous to the child-
> as some have claimed- that would mean little to a prosecutor who
> wants to see the "evil devil-worshipper" put in jail for "ritual
> child abuse.")

That is exactly what was going through my head when I first read it. Well, this
is not going to happen. I can see doing the whole operation in a manner that is
feasible for my work load. It is like you have said in a posting somewhere on
the internet ( I think it was your website posting on the HGA). But, the child
part puts a huge brick wall in front of it. That just sounds like some serious
jail time with some guy named Bubba who thinks you're the new b*tch in town.

> I had to wing-it, I'm afraid.  The Book calls for two talismans to
> be painted on two silk veils.  One white, to be worn by the child,
> and the other black to be worn by the aspirant.  I painted both
> Talismans on a single white veil and did it alone.  (I followed the
> instructions, otherwise, as if the child were there.)  Were I to do
> this same thing again, I would go ahead and make both veils.  The
> white one I would lay over the Altar, and I would wear the black one
> as I should have done.

>
> At any rate, the result came out Ok.

I have been wondering this for awhile now. I am glad it does work without the
child.

> As I said, I followed the
> instructions - standing at the doorway, not looking at the Altar,
> prostrating and reciting the necessary Psalms, etc.  And, in fact, I
> *did* recieve the necessary instructions to balance out any errors I
> had made during the six moons.  It actually came to me in the form
> of a very old hip-hop song that started to run through my head right
> there in the Oratory, and then wouldn't leave for the rest of that
> entire day.  In fact, it was only a few lines of that song that kept
> repeating themselves to me:
>
> "You've got to pray!
> Pray!
> You've got to pray!
> Pray!
> You've got to pray, just to make it today!"
>
> My friends have never let me live down the fact that my first-ever
> message from my Holy Guardian Angel was in the form of an old hip-
> hop song...  :):):)
>
That is funny.  I have a question for you ( or anyone else here ) as a side
note.  Do you think this operation is critical to perform before one tries to
perform evocational magic like the Lemegetons?

In search of LVX
Michael Johnson

--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Frater A.:V:.P" <Frater_AVP@c...>
wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I know it seems like I am all questions, but the closer it comes to
> time to start, the more I find that I haven't considered... LOL

Are you going to start just after Easter/Passover next spring?

> I have a spare bedroom that I am performing this operation in. It
> has a window which opens to the east, and a closet in the north.

The window in the East is great.  The German original mentions this.

> The more that I read this, and the more that I think about it, it
> occurs to me that there is no need to use the whole room as the
> oratory. That it would be just as proper of me to use a curtained
> off area beside the window (thanks to Aaron's photos) and simply put
> the river sand somewhere in the north side of the room.
>
> Anyway... the meat of my question is... how large should the Oratory
> be? And what suggestions (if any) do you have for handling
> an "indoor terrace"?

The indoor terrace is something of a challenge.  I was lucky enough to
have an outdoor terrace.  (Though it also had its drawbacks- mainly
that you had to be VERY quiet when the door was open.  Plus, there was
no privacy fence around the terrace at the time.)  Now, I just open
the doorflaps of my current Oratory (not the one you see pictured) and
call the names of the spirits I want to work with.

In your case, I would say to set your Oratory against the eastern wall
and its window.  I would say that 6 feet by 6 feet would be enough.
(You don't have to do any circumambulations or anything like that.)
Just push the Altar up against the eastern wall under the window, and
make sure you have enough room to stand or kneel at the other three
sides.

I've just added two new pictures into the photos section, that will
give you another view of such an Oratory.

Of course, my above suggestions would mean your Oratory is composed of
three curtained walls (north, south, and west) and one solid wall (in
the east).  I would have the curtains open on the west and north:  the
western opening would be your main entrance, the northern opening
would be for working with the spirits.  You could even have a third
opening in the south to Abramelin's suggestion that you should be able
to open all sides of the Oratory to see the spirits as they surround
you.  (Though I didn't find this necessary.  Or at least I haven't yet...)


I think your idea of the box of river sand is pretty good.  Just set
that box of sand over on the north side of the Oratory.  When working
with the spirits, just open the northern doorflap.

LVX
Aaron

Greetings!

:):):)  This is truly awesome!!  I had thought my pics were the only
ones like them in existence.  :)  Thank you very much for sharing
these photos.  I know how *personal* such images really are!

LVX
Aaron


--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <templumkat@y...> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I have posted a few pictures taken during my Abramelin Working in 2004.
>
> With regard to current discussions, my Silver platen was discovered,
> with synchroncity, in a home-decor shop two days before the Working
> commenced, and is about 4" square.
>
> I could not offer any advice 'in retrospect' as the working is truly
> considered as a self-extracting program. When you are called to its
> performance, you will read the instructions many times over, and find
> what you require. The rest will reveal itself as written. That is the
> graceful and divine nature of this working.
>
> In the Great Work
>
> Frater F.P.
> http://www.kabbalahcourse.com

--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, <john9454@b...> wrote:


> I have a question for you ( or anyone else here ) as a side note.
Do you think this operation is critical to perform before one tries to
perform evocational magic like the Lemegetons?

Abramelin is its own system.  It isn't critical to perform Abramelin
before trying other Solomonic systems.  The author of the Lemegeton,
for example, probably never heard of the Book of Abramelin.  ;)

Having said that:  I have personally found my Guardian Angel is
central to my Solomonic work.  We're talking about a kind of shamanic
vocation here- so *first* gaining contact with the Guaridan Angel is
certainly a good idea.  Espeically since the HGA is your guide and
mentor in the arts of magick.

LVX
Aaron

Greetings, All!

Frater AVP asked the list what some of us might have done differently
if we had the Operation to do over again.  (Or, if "we knew then what
we know now.")  I brought up aspects of the German original I would
have included - and have thought about the issue ever since.

There is one major change I would make - but failed to mention in my
last post on the subject.  This involves the 360 spirits associated
with the 12 Princes of Hell.

When I completed the Operation and recieved my first lesson on the
Abramelin spirits, my HGA pointed out that the 12 Princes were
associated with the signs of the Zodiac.  It was later that I learned
that this relationship between demons and the Zodiac is common to
demonology.  (It goes back to Babylon and Sumeria.  We can see echoes
of it in the Goetia.)

Then, years later, I learned that the German Abramelin lists exactly
360 spirits controlled by the 12 Princes!  The astrological imagery
here is plainly obvious.  360 degrees in a Zodiac of 12 Signs, and 360
spirits goverend by 12 Princes of Hell.  (The HGA, of course, is the
Sun that governs the lot of them.)

Now, if you count the spirits listed in Mathers' Abramelin, you'll
find they do not total 360.  Many spritis were missed - and I did not
know this when I performed the Rite.  :(

The Book of Abramelin says that the HGA will give you your own unique
list of spirits.  (Based on your own psychology.)  That list SHOULD
come during the final seven days of the Operation itself.  (At the
same time one recieves the names of the four Familiars.)  Personally,
I got the names of the Familiars, but did not ask for a personalized
list of 360 spirits at that time.

Personally, I wouldn't fret if such a list doesn't come right away.
The 12 Princes are the primary focus during the end of the Operation-
as they take the Oath on behalf of their servient spirits.  It may
take some time and work to recieve the names of the 360 individual
spirits.

(Abramelin says to put the list of spirits on the terrace and make
sure the Princes include them in the Oath.  If you don't have such a
list yet, I say just make sure the Princes know that all of their
servient spirits- as shall be named by your HGA- are included in the
Oath.)

LVX
Aaron

Actually, this is the ONE THING that I am not following the text to
the letter on... my start date is actually this month, the 22nd to
be exact.

This is due to several factors, one of which is the fact that I
haven't been able to stop working on this long enough to even sleep
since I got my "kick" to do it...

I have personally always felt that the winter time is wonderful for
introspection. Every major working that I have done that was focused
on self-development has been a winter project, and I have the
feeling that this one is just as appropriate. I also like the idea
of the rebirth of the sun taking place on the Vernal Equinox instead
of the Fall.

The next two reasons are pretty mundane, but the last reason (the
one that sealed the pact) just downright blew me away!

We just moved into a 4 bedroom house, where I FINALLY have my own
dedicated temple room. My husband will be finishing school in the
spring, and then we will be moving to another town to continue his
education. Being unsure of what our income will be, or how big of a
place we will be able to afford in the new town, I kinda want to get
through the operation while I know I have the time and space.

The next reason is that my current source of income is managing a
childrens shoe store. This is a relatively slow business in the
winter, BUT... if I were to try and start the Abramelin at the
spring equinox, I would be entering the third (and most difficult)
phase just as the store entered it's "Back to School" mode which is
difficult to deal with even without fasting and focusing on
spiritual endeavors. LOL

The final nail in the coffin came a few days ago, when I took a
break and ordered chinese takeout. LOL I had been weighing the pros
and cons of starting in the fall, meditating and praying my little
heart out, and really trying to find the right answer for me...
Well, when I finished lunch I looked in the bottom of the bag and
they had sent me two fortune cookies! I was very happy, as you can
imagine. Well, I cracked the first one open and read:

All decisions you make today will be most fortunate.

Well... I took this as a good sign that if I decided to start in the
fall I would be able to work out any problems that came along. So, I
devoured my tasty little treat and broke open the second cookie:

You will conquer obstacles to achieve success.

I nearly fell on the floor in excitement that all was going to go so
well for me! Then I just started to laugh at myself for putting so
much stock into a couple of fortune cookies. Anyway, I just left
them laying in front of me on the table and Thanked the universe for
supplying me with the means to afford such a wonderful meal. After I
finished, I picked up the fortunes again and started to look at the
bottom portions where they teach you chinese words, and this is what
I found on the two fortunes:

Learn Chinese: Jian-Main - To meet/see/contact

Learn Chinese: Zi-Ji - Self/Myself

Jian-Main Zi-Ji, To contact my SELF! I decided I wasn't going to
laugh at this and ignore it, I mean what are the odds that I would
get these two fortunes at this time!?!?  I am starting this Equinox!

LVX
AVP


--- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <Aaron@L...> wrote:
>
> Are you going to start just after Easter/Passover next spring?
>

Looks like Abramelin is popping up all over.  I just posted this to
the Ritual Magic mailing list:

--- In ritual-magic@yahoogroups.com, netqwest@w... wrote:

> Would someone, please, let me know what resources they've found to
be
> the most instrumental in helping them gain the conversation of
their
> Holy Guardian Angel?

I used the system outlined in the Book of Abramelin.  (Specifically
the Mathers/French version, rather than the original German version.)

> Does it really take 6 months to effect this manifestation?

The 6-month period is specific to the Mathers/French Abramelin.  The
German original utilizes a year and a half.  Following either one
could result in Knowledge and Conversation - but it will still take
years of steady work after that point to build upon it.

> Is there more than one way to do it?

Yes and no.  There are many different systems out there.  However,
in my studies, I have found all of them to contain the same basic
elements.  What you see outlined in Abramelin is pretty "standard"
for the creation of a Shaman or a Priest.

I should point out that "Knowledge" and "Conversation" are two
different things.  Gaining Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel
is the easier of the two- if you are sincere in your aspirations.
The Guaridan might come to you in a vision or a dream, etc.

Meanwhile, "Knowledge" of the HGA indicates a very intimate bonding
between you and the Guardian.  (In Santeria, they call it putting
the Saint- or Orisha- to your head.)  It is a wedding, and the HGA
is your spiritual spouse.  To accomplish this, a system like
Abramelin should be followed.

LVX
Aaron

I've uploaded a picture from The 'Mirror of Wisdom' of Theophilus
Schweighardt which depicts the classical Oratory. This whole document
is available and discussed on Adam Mclean's excellent Alchemy site at:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/schweig.html

and is a fascinating read, particularly the mysteries of this
particular image. You will find a small colour version on Adam's site
as well!

In the Great Work

Frater F.P.
http://www.kabbalahcourse.com