Welcome to the group! I'm not sure if you did these already, but
Riverside Walk ("Gateway to the Narrows") and the Canyon Overlook
Trail are fun easy ones as well. The upper east canyon has plenty of
possibilities as well -- just explore as much or as little as you
want and turn around when you get tired.

I do a lot of strenuous hiking with my dad; my wife and my mom love
Zion as well, but they're not always up for the big hikes. On the
rough days, they're happy to relax poolside with a good book or hang
out at the lodge or explore by the river at a leisurely pace. That
way, we all get our fill and nobody is unhappy.

Hey Hikers and Tanya,
    Any body got any plans for hiking on Saturday. Feb 5th... 6 to 8
miles type maybe 10.  Or 3, or 4 or 5??.   Talk about easy.  huh
      Plans? Ideas?.  I am soft from the long winter.
     Looks like a good weekend to get out.   Although not as many
waterfalls as some weekends in the Past.. he he

     Keep posting up those great pics.

     I'd slip over from here in Bloomington for the day.

    Mat

Hi Mat...   Bo has been thinking, but so far no set plans.  We will post things
as we  decide.
The weather this time of year changes things so quick!  Bo has been threatening
the hike
that he posted yesterday for someone else though. ;)

We still have to do Huber, but might be really muddy out.  We will be thinking! 
Stay
tunned.  Take a look at my photo album list.  I am game for anything I still
need to do an
album of!

<http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-national-park-pictures.htm>

Did you see the  pics I posted in the Grand Canyon group last night of our 3 day
backpack
in South Canyon?
<http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/albums/index47.htm>

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mat" <mtntop123@y...> wrote:
>
> Hey Hikers and Tanya,
>    Any body got any plans for hiking on Saturday. Feb 5th... 6 to 8
> miles type maybe 10.  Or 3, or 4 or 5??.   Talk about easy.  huh
>      Plans? Ideas?.  I am soft from the long winter.
>     Looks like a good weekend to get out.   Although not as many
> waterfalls as some weekends in the Past.. he he
>
>     Keep posting up those great pics.
>
>     I'd slip over from here in Bloomington for the day.
>
>    Mat

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, bomabro84738 <no_reply@y...>

> Maybe up Right Fork to Trail Canyon, up and over Cougar Mountain,
> down into Terry Wash and Coalpits out to Hwy 9. Havent done this
> route personally, but have some friends that have and they have said
> it is an interesting, challenging, (bushwacking, routefinding,
> strenuous) one day hike? Maybe better done in 2? and definately
> contingent on weather (recent snowfall,etc.) Maybe worth looking into?
> Bo

Haze, which has long hampered visibility in Western national parks,
forests and preserves, has been reduced by about a third since 1990
along the Colorado Plateau and in Utah, air quality officials said
Monday.

The reduction represents a significant gain on long-term regional
goals to cut air pollution by up to 70 percent in these areas by
2040, said Patrick Cummins, co-director of the Western Regional Air
Partnership.

The organization, known as WRAP, is made up of tribal and state
governments and various federal agencies.

Cummins said the gains are important because haze, or pollution
levels, are capped so that "with (population) growth we aren't going
to see those gains eroded in the future.

"We've already seen significant improvement," he said.

Currently, 600,000 tons per year of sulfur dioxide -- a major
contributor to haze -- are found in nine Western states, including
Utah. That compares with 840,000 tons per year in 1990.

The haze reduction comes as the Interior Department signed an
agreement with the state of Utah -- the first of its kind -- which
completes the state's portion of a regional plan for protecting the
visibility at national parks on the Colorado Plateau.

The agreement, signed Friday, ensures that the parks in Utah will
have "cost-effective, pollution-reduction plans," according to a
statement from the Interior Department. Some sites that will benefit
are Arches, Bryce Canyon, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef and Zion national
parks.

The standards for haze reduction are an outgrowth of the Grand Canyon
Visibility Transport Commission, which was created under a 1990
amendment to the Clean Air Act and implemented by WRAP. The
commission was created to develop recommendations for improving
Western vistas.

Cummins said the new agreement allows the regional authorities to
implement their air quality plans to see if they work before federal
intervention becomes necessary.

"Air quality is a regional issue and is best solved when regions work
together with state and federal land managers to reduce emissions,"
said Craig Manson, assistant secretary of the interior for fish and
wildlife.

By national standards, air quality in Western states is considered
relatively pristine. But Cummins said the haze problem in the West is
still important, comparing it to a single drop of coloring in a clear
glass of water.

"It's very noticeable," he said.

Controlling haze, which largely is caused by increases in man-made
gases such as car and power plant emissions, is important in large
swaths of the West where some of the national parks, forests, and
fish and wildlife preserves with the best air quality are located.
About 75 percent of these 156 sites with good air quality are located
in the Western region.

It's also important to areas such as Washington County, whose
population grew about 7 percent last year to 125,000 residents. The
county is expected to grow to 472,000 people by 2040, according to
the governor's office. Officials said emissions often go hand-in-hand
with population density.

Rick Sprott, director of the state's division of air quality, said
Utah has been monitoring ozone levels in St. George, where some
increases have been noticed since the mid-1990s. He said the area is
being watched so that scientists and environmentalists can better
understand what is causing the haze increase.

"There is nothing except people and automobiles in St. George," he
said.

But what was surprising was that ozone increases in the St. George
area are similar to increases in more remote and isolated places in
the West.

"We don't understand what we are seeing and that is why we are
monitoring it," he said.

Sprott said the state could have some answers in two to five years.
There are clues, however.

He said the region itself could be prone to haze increases because of
its warm, sunny climate. Sprott said that when ultraviolet light from
the sun mixes with oxides and nitrogen from combustion, such as from
cars, boilers and even forest fires, "ozone begins to form rapidly."

http://www.thespectrum.com/news/stories/20050201/localnews/1940199.htm
l

This is not in the opinion section of the paper, but it should be I
think!

Multiple use advocates were shocked to see that Gov. Huntsman
withdrew an appropriate if not belated effort to challenge the
enormous boundaries of the politically inspired Grand Staircase-
Escalante National Monument. It looks like he has yet to learn that
it's impossible to appease environmentalists. The more they get the
more they want.
    It seems that every time the Outdoor Retailers Association says
jump, Utah state government asks, how high? These elitists, with
threats of withdrawing their paltry $32 million show, are apparently
able to call the shots with no more than an airplane ride from
Denver. Their main beef is that   their constituents are able to
enjoy Utah's public lands only if all other users, including the
elderly and disabled, are denied access.
    Vehicle-assisted recreation generates at least $500 million yearly
for Utah's economy. You'd think that someone would pay attention to
the rights of these people, who have never advocated or demanded
exclusive use of resources that belong to all. Maybe it's time the
business community serving motorized recreation and access begins
flexing its muscle.
    We should not pay any attention to provocateurs flying to Utah
making economic threats. If they want to   move their precious show,
we won't miss it or the selfish special interests it serves.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2546762

AS FIELDING POSSON APPROACHES THE Feather, a notoriously hard
bouldering route at Hueco Tanks State Park in Texas, he visualizes
the sequence of moves, imagining each foothold, hand pocket and
ridiculous undercling.

Then he mounts, climbing quickly and fluidly, powering out from the
deep hollow at the boulder's base, to the massive bulge with its
slopey pockets, and up to the head wall, with its fossil-like feather
pattern. Finally, he tops out 12 feet above the crash pads at Austin
Rock Gym in Austin, Texas.

Five hundred miles from the real thing, Posson has this faux Feather
wired. The simulated rock route, which debuted four years ago, gives
him and other Austin climbers a taste of a natural rock icon without
a plane ticket or a leg-numbing all-night drive.

"The movement is definitely the same as the Feather," says Clayton
Reagan, an Austin-based climber who has done the real Hueco problem
climb many times. The rock gym version, he adds, "is easier, but it's
still difficult."

A climbing gym in Boulder, Colo., has taken rock simulation further
afield. The Spot replicates the geology of famed climbing areas from
Hueco to Yosemite to France's Fontainebleau. The gym lets climbers
come out of the cold or finger-searing heat and enjoy ideal climbing
conditions year-round. In a society primed for convenience, mock rock
is emerging as an alternative to, if not a substitute for, Mother
Nature. Climbers don't always have the spare time or funds to get to
the wilds where the most sought-after rocks hide. And then there is
the sheer difficulty of routes like the Feather.

Most boulderers would take one look at the gnarly syenite,
overhanging with veiny protrusions, and walk away. In the controlled
environment of a gym, it may seem more doable.

Yet, like other attempts to put a roof over outdoor activities — wave
machines, ski runs in malls — some things get lost in translation.
Climbing in a simulated environment can create a false sense of
security, minus the crumbly handholds and unpredictable conditions of
nature. And bringing the outdoors indoors undercuts the wild
experience at the heart of the sport.

As Reagan puts it, you lose "the grass, the sky, your dog, beer, the
river, no rules, the freedom of being in nature and not being
confined by walls."

But there's no arguing with convenience. If you can't get to the
mountain, why not bring the mountain to you?

"I love Hueco Tanks, but it's a 12-hour drive for me," says Boulder-
based Ty Foose, president and artistic director of Monolithic
Sculptures Inc., one of the country's top facsimile-rock
manufacturers. "If I can't get there, I can go to the Spot [which
features Monolithic's creations] and experience Hueco Tanks for
lunch. I can get a realistic experience without having to leave town."

Rock legend Lynn Hill, who lives in Boulder and has climbed at all of
the regions replicated at the Spot, says the Boulder gym — and
features like the Austin Feather — represent a fledgling trend, as
some deep-pocketed owners and farsighted rock-trepreneurs begin to
shift from plywood-paneled, hard-angled surfaces to textured and
curvaceous structures simulating the real McCoy.

Soon enough, Hill predicts, climbers around the country will have the
option of experiencing extremely realistic knockoffs in the comfort
of an indoor environment — something she has mixed feelings about.

A longtime pro who has climbed some of the world's toughest big walls
(she is still the only climber to free ascend El Capitan's the Nose
in one day, which she did in 1994), Hill enjoys indoor climbing — in
fact, loves having easy access to a knockoff of Fontainebleau, one of
her favorite climbing regions.

But she worries that people who spend too much time on man-made
surfaces miss an essential part of the sport.

"It's much more intense, and there's more of a sense of adventure and
discovery when you're outside. You find new climbs — and there's
nothing like that. Indoors, somebody's done it before you."

A way to train

FoR the hard-core outdoor climber, faux-rock climbing is no
substitute. It's more of a training tool or alternative when you
can't get to the outback. Foose says the movement toward highly
realistic rock-climbing surfaces isn't about "besting" or replacing
Mother Nature.

Or is it? The simulated rock dovetails with a broader cultural shift
to a world where reality and fantasy, organic and synthetic
commingle. There's a fake Paris in Las Vegas, fake "real"
relationships on television, video games with fake players and these
weird (some argue, wonderful) wave machines. Do we at some point blur
a line between reality and artificiality at our own peril?

Futurist Derek Woodgate, whose recent book "Future Frequencies"
examines the links between upcoming trends and progressive pop
culture, argues that simulated environments and alternate realities
are, ironically, part of the natural progression of things — humans
seeking ways to push the envelope, expand boundaries, make the world
more convenient and manageable.

"Simulated environments allow us to do things we couldn't do, or
things we might not do in the material or natural world," he says.
Those "artificial" tools, be they wave machines or robotic prosthetic
limbs, allow people to overcome obstacles and phobias, Woodgate says.

Woodgate contends that the trend toward the fantastical and the
artificial is inevitable.

"The moment that you have artificial limbs or can literally change
your genetics, we change as a species," he says. "You can't have
change in one field and not expect to have change in another, like
recreation and leisure, and it isn't saying one [the pseudo] is
better than the other [the natural]."

"Somebody wants to climb Everest, they'll climb it — but the majority
will never be able to climb Everest for all sorts of reasons. But
what if you could simulate some of the elements that would make it
feel like you've overcome some of the obstacles? Why wouldn't we want
to have these alternatives?"

Despite the effort to duplicate outdoor environments, there are
obvious differences on an indoor rock face. For instance, bolt-on
holds — which can be small, medium or large, and of varying shapes —
used for handholds or foot ledges. Nature is less accommodating, of
course.

One advantage of bolt-ons is that they provide a constant variety of
holds, ensuring an ever-changing number of routes and return
customers. Rock gyms, unlike wild stone, have to pay their way.

Some Southern California gyms, such as Boulderdash Indoor Rock
Climbing Studio in Thousand Oaks and Rockreation Sport Climbing
Center in Costa Mesa and Los Angeles, offer a combination of
realistic rock surfaces and bolt-on holds, an advantage over a
single, replicated climb like the Feather. In nature, when a climber
has finally figured out a difficult route problem, he or she moves on
to bigger challenges. This may be why the Feather is only one
climbing feature of many in the Austin gym.

Though simulated rock walls solve some problems, like getting to
remote locations, they raise other issues. Howley points out that one
risk of re-creating rock so faithfully is that it can underprepare a
novice for the real world of rock.

"One of our concerns was getting people too comfortable with taking
big falls," says Dan Howley, owner of the Spot. (The Spot, which
charges $10 for a single outing and $435 a year for membership, has
thick crash padding throughout the gym.) Plus, Howley adds, climbers
are slightly more apt to strain a muscle or pull a tendon in a gym
because the plastic surfaces tend to be more comfortable —
encouraging climbers to hold on longer. "The plastic kind of holds
onto you, whereas outside you might pop off more easily."

The level of risk, of course, is the biggest difference between the
safe confines of the gym and the rocks outside. You pay a higher
price for higher risk, but the increased challenge is part of the
attraction for top climbers like Hill. She once fell 80 feet at Styx
Wall in France, with only a tree breaking her descent. Miraculously,
she only dislocated her elbow. But she has lost her brother-in-law,
Chuck Bludworth, and buddy Hugues Beauzile — both of whom died, 20
years apart, while climbing the south face of the Andes' Aconcagua.
Those tragedies have led Hill to broaden her career to sponsoring
climbing-safety camps and consulting for artificial climbing
environments. Yet pushing and overcoming the limits is part of why
the outdoor climbing experience has a mystical, liberating quality
for Hill.

Outside, she says, "the feeling is that you have to get it together,
keep it together, make quick decisions and not panic. That's a great
feeling…. Mother Nature is constantly breaking down, the rock is
constantly going; there's a constant process of erosion. I think that
scares some people."

Room for growth

Rock wall designers say they have seen a huge jump in demand in the
last two years from architects, gym franchises, playground builders
and schools. But less than 20% of the 500 or so climbing gyms in the
U.S. have something like the high-end sculpted, nonpanel rock created
by Monolithic Sculptures, which leaves plenty of room for growth in a
market of an estimated 8 million climbers.

Some California gyms have made the jump to textured surfaces or three-
  dimensional outcroppings. But none go as far as the Spot in re-
creating a range of geologic styles.

The reason is simple: Premium faux rock is not cost-effective for
most climbing gyms. A wall at the Spot that replicates Yosemite rock,
for instance, cost $80,000. But with the competition growing among
rock manufacturers — Monolithic's rivals include Eldorado Wall Co. in
Boulder, Nicros in St. Paul, Minn., and Entre Prises Climbing Walls
USA in Bend, Ore., whose latest project is a simulated ice wall at a
gym in Scotland — that could change soon.

Matt O'Connor of Eldorado Wall sees more potential ahead for synth-
rock in the climbing gym world, which is "becoming a more recognized
business. Facilities are becoming more inviting for the beginner and
moderate climber and for families. Now they're starting to look for
something that sets them apart from other facilities. That may be
rock-realistic-type walls. We're starting to see it more and more."

Yet even for Monolithic's Foose, the imitation will always have a
glaring limitation. "For me, as a long-term climber, rocks emanate a
certain energy, a certain spirituality, and we can't duplicate that.
There's something about interacting with a million-year-old formation
that you just can't re-create. And if you put a real rock inside a
building, you've already lost half the appeal of the thing. We do the
best we can to create an interesting environment, but it's never a
complete substitute for what you find outside."

People like Woodgate, who see the broader artificial-vs.-natural
debate as part of man's evolution, maintain that replicated
environments simply present more choices — not a rift between man and
nature. "We are moving into a world where simulated experience is
part of our reality, but that doesn't exclude reality," he says. We
can always choose the real thing if we want it.

Outdoor fan Reagan agrees wholeheartedly — but sees a definite
benefit to faux rock. "Actually, I'd prefer that all the climbers go
to the gyms instead of crowding up the walls outside. I like a little
serenity when I climb, and you can only find that outside."

On real rock.

>>>Then he mounts, climbing quickly and fluidly, powering out from the
deep hollow at the boulder's base, to the massive bulge with its
slopey pockets, and up to the head wall, with its fossil-like feather
pattern. <<<

My goodness! Maybe it's just me, but that comes across as
borderline erotic....   :)

Jan


--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com,
zion_national_park_hiking <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> AS FIELDING POSSON APPROACHES THE Feather, a notoriously hard
> bouldering route at Hueco Tanks State Park in Texas, he visualizes
> the sequence of moves, imagining each foothold, hand pocket and
> ridiculous undercling.
>
> Then he mounts, climbing quickly and fluidly, powering out from the
> deep hollow at the boulder's base, to the massive bulge with its
> slopey pockets, and up to the head wall, with its fossil-like
feather
> pattern. Finally, he tops out 12 feet above the crash pads at
Austin
> Rock Gym in Austin, Texas.
>
> Five hundred miles from the real thing, Posson has this faux
Feather
> wired. The simulated rock route, which debuted four years ago,
gives
> him and other Austin climbers a taste of a natural rock icon
without
> a plane ticket or a leg-numbing all-night drive.
>
> "The movement is definitely the same as the Feather," says Clayton
> Reagan, an Austin-based climber who has done the real Hueco problem
> climb many times. The rock gym version, he adds, "is easier, but
it's
> still difficult."
>
> A climbing gym in Boulder, Colo., has taken rock simulation further
> afield. The Spot replicates the geology of famed climbing areas
from
> Hueco to Yosemite to France's Fontainebleau. The gym lets climbers
> come out of the cold or finger-searing heat and enjoy ideal
climbing
> conditions year-round. In a society primed for convenience, mock
rock
> is emerging as an alternative to, if not a substitute for, Mother
> Nature. Climbers don't always have the spare time or funds to get
to
> the wilds where the most sought-after rocks hide. And then there is
> the sheer difficulty of routes like the Feather.
>
> Most boulderers would take one look at the gnarly syenite,
> overhanging with veiny protrusions, and walk away. In the
controlled
> environment of a gym, it may seem more doable.
>
> Yet, like other attempts to put a roof over outdoor activities —
wave
> machines, ski runs in malls — some things get lost in translation.
> Climbing in a simulated environment can create a false sense of
> security, minus the crumbly handholds and unpredictable conditions
of
> nature. And bringing the outdoors indoors undercuts the wild
> experience at the heart of the sport.
>
> As Reagan puts it, you lose "the grass, the sky, your dog, beer,
the
> river, no rules, the freedom of being in nature and not being
> confined by walls."
>
> But there's no arguing with convenience. If you can't get to the
> mountain, why not bring the mountain to you?
>
> "I love Hueco Tanks, but it's a 12-hour drive for me," says Boulder-
> based Ty Foose, president and artistic director of Monolithic
> Sculptures Inc., one of the country's top facsimile-rock
> manufacturers. "If I can't get there, I can go to the Spot [which
> features Monolithic's creations] and experience Hueco Tanks for
> lunch. I can get a realistic experience without having to leave
town."
>
> Rock legend Lynn Hill, who lives in Boulder and has climbed at all
of
> the regions replicated at the Spot, says the Boulder gym — and
> features like the Austin Feather — represent a fledgling trend, as
> some deep-pocketed owners and farsighted rock-trepreneurs begin to
> shift from plywood-paneled, hard-angled surfaces to textured and
> curvaceous structures simulating the real McCoy.
>
> Soon enough, Hill predicts, climbers around the country will have
the
> option of experiencing extremely realistic knockoffs in the comfort
> of an indoor environment — something she has mixed feelings about.
>
> A longtime pro who has climbed some of the world's toughest big
walls
> (she is still the only climber to free ascend El Capitan's the Nose
> in one day, which she did in 1994), Hill enjoys indoor climbing —
in
> fact, loves having easy access to a knockoff of Fontainebleau, one
of
> her favorite climbing regions.
>
> But she worries that people who spend too much time on man-made
> surfaces miss an essential part of the sport.
>
> "It's much more intense, and there's more of a sense of adventure
and
> discovery when you're outside. You find new climbs — and there's
> nothing like that. Indoors, somebody's done it before you."
>
> A way to train
>
> FoR the hard-core outdoor climber, faux-rock climbing is no
> substitute. It's more of a training tool or alternative when you
> can't get to the outback. Foose says the movement toward highly
> realistic rock-climbing surfaces isn't about "besting" or replacing
> Mother Nature.
>
> Or is it? The simulated rock dovetails with a broader cultural
shift
> to a world where reality and fantasy, organic and synthetic
> commingle. There's a fake Paris in Las Vegas, fake "real"
> relationships on television, video games with fake players and
these
> weird (some argue, wonderful) wave machines. Do we at some point
blur
> a line between reality and artificiality at our own peril?
>
> Futurist Derek Woodgate, whose recent book "Future Frequencies"
> examines the links between upcoming trends and progressive pop
> culture, argues that simulated environments and alternate realities
> are, ironically, part of the natural progression of things — humans
> seeking ways to push the envelope, expand boundaries, make the
world
> more convenient and manageable.
>
> "Simulated environments allow us to do things we couldn't do, or
> things we might not do in the material or natural world," he says.
> Those "artificial" tools, be they wave machines or robotic
prosthetic
> limbs, allow people to overcome obstacles and phobias, Woodgate
says.
>
> Woodgate contends that the trend toward the fantastical and the
> artificial is inevitable.
>
> "The moment that you have artificial limbs or can literally change
> your genetics, we change as a species," he says. "You can't have
> change in one field and not expect to have change in another, like
> recreation and leisure, and it isn't saying one [the pseudo] is
> better than the other [the natural]."
>
> "Somebody wants to climb Everest, they'll climb it — but the
majority
> will never be able to climb Everest for all sorts of reasons. But
> what if you could simulate some of the elements that would make it
> feel like you've overcome some of the obstacles? Why wouldn't we
want
> to have these alternatives?"
>
> Despite the effort to duplicate outdoor environments, there are
> obvious differences on an indoor rock face. For instance, bolt-on
> holds — which can be small, medium or large, and of varying shapes —

> used for handholds or foot ledges. Nature is less accommodating, of
> course.
>
> One advantage of bolt-ons is that they provide a constant variety
of
> holds, ensuring an ever-changing number of routes and return
> customers. Rock gyms, unlike wild stone, have to pay their way.
>
> Some Southern California gyms, such as Boulderdash Indoor Rock
> Climbing Studio in Thousand Oaks and Rockreation Sport Climbing
> Center in Costa Mesa and Los Angeles, offer a combination of
> realistic rock surfaces and bolt-on holds, an advantage over a
> single, replicated climb like the Feather. In nature, when a
climber
> has finally figured out a difficult route problem, he or she moves
on
> to bigger challenges. This may be why the Feather is only one
> climbing feature of many in the Austin gym.
>
> Though simulated rock walls solve some problems, like getting to
> remote locations, they raise other issues. Howley points out that
one
> risk of re-creating rock so faithfully is that it can underprepare
a
> novice for the real world of rock.
>
> "One of our concerns was getting people too comfortable with taking
> big falls," says Dan Howley, owner of the Spot. (The Spot, which
> charges $10 for a single outing and $435 a year for membership, has
> thick crash padding throughout the gym.) Plus, Howley adds,
climbers
> are slightly more apt to strain a muscle or pull a tendon in a gym
> because the plastic surfaces tend to be more comfortable —
> encouraging climbers to hold on longer. "The plastic kind of holds
> onto you, whereas outside you might pop off more easily."
>
> The level of risk, of course, is the biggest difference between the
> safe confines of the gym and the rocks outside. You pay a higher
> price for higher risk, but the increased challenge is part of the
> attraction for top climbers like Hill. She once fell 80 feet at
Styx
> Wall in France, with only a tree breaking her descent.
Miraculously,
> she only dislocated her elbow. But she has lost her brother-in-law,
> Chuck Bludworth, and buddy Hugues Beauzile — both of whom died, 20
> years apart, while climbing the south face of the Andes' Aconcagua.
> Those tragedies have led Hill to broaden her career to sponsoring
> climbing-safety camps and consulting for artificial climbing
> environments. Yet pushing and overcoming the limits is part of why
> the outdoor climbing experience has a mystical, liberating quality
> for Hill.
>
> Outside, she says, "the feeling is that you have to get it
together,
> keep it together, make quick decisions and not panic. That's a
great
> feeling…. Mother Nature is constantly breaking down, the rock is
> constantly going; there's a constant process of erosion. I think
that
> scares some people."
>
> Room for growth
>
> Rock wall designers say they have seen a huge jump in demand in the
> last two years from architects, gym franchises, playground builders
> and schools. But less than 20% of the 500 or so climbing gyms in
the
> U.S. have something like the high-end sculpted, nonpanel rock
created
> by Monolithic Sculptures, which leaves plenty of room for growth in
a
> market of an estimated 8 million climbers.
>
> Some California gyms have made the jump to textured surfaces or
three-
>  dimensional outcroppings. But none go as far as the Spot in re-
> creating a range of geologic styles.
>
> The reason is simple: Premium faux rock is not cost-effective for
> most climbing gyms. A wall at the Spot that replicates Yosemite
rock,
> for instance, cost $80,000. But with the competition growing among
> rock manufacturers — Monolithic's rivals include Eldorado Wall Co.
in
> Boulder, Nicros in St. Paul, Minn., and Entre Prises Climbing Walls
> USA in Bend, Ore., whose latest project is a simulated ice wall at
a
> gym in Scotland — that could change soon.
>
> Matt O'Connor of Eldorado Wall sees more potential ahead for synth-
> rock in the climbing gym world, which is "becoming a more
recognized
> business. Facilities are becoming more inviting for the beginner
and
> moderate climber and for families. Now they're starting to look for
> something that sets them apart from other facilities. That may be
> rock-realistic-type walls. We're starting to see it more and more."
>
> Yet even for Monolithic's Foose, the imitation will always have a
> glaring limitation. "For me, as a long-term climber, rocks emanate
a
> certain energy, a certain spirituality, and we can't duplicate
that.
> There's something about interacting with a million-year-old
formation
> that you just can't re-create. And if you put a real rock inside a
> building, you've already lost half the appeal of the thing. We do
the
> best we can to create an interesting environment, but it's never a
> complete substitute for what you find outside."
>
> People like Woodgate, who see the broader artificial-vs.-natural
> debate as part of man's evolution, maintain that replicated
> environments simply present more choices — not a rift between man
and
> nature. "We are moving into a world where simulated experience is
> part of our reality, but that doesn't exclude reality," he says. We
> can always choose the real thing if we want it.
>
> Outdoor fan Reagan agrees wholeheartedly — but sees a definite
> benefit to faux rock. "Actually, I'd prefer that all the climbers
go
> to the gyms instead of crowding up the walls outside. I like a
little
> serenity when I climb, and you can only find that outside."
>
> On real rock.

Uh, it IS in the Opinion Section - under Public Forum aka Letters to
the Editor.

T


--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com,
zion_national_park_hiking <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> This is not in the opinion section of the paper, but it should be
I
> think!
>
> Multiple use advocates were shocked to see that Gov. Huntsman
> withdrew an appropriate if not belated effort to challenge the
> enormous boundaries of the politically inspired Grand Staircase-
> Escalante National Monument. It looks like he has yet to learn
that
> it's impossible to appease environmentalists. The more they get
the
> more they want.

>
> http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2546762

Ha ha, I agree! Now, to counter-balance, we need a news article
about women descending from warm and inviting slot canyons and
hoodoo formations.

(yeah sorry everybody, i'm acting like i'm back in 7th grade today)


--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Savanna"
<janlloyd@x> wrote:
>
> >>>Then he mounts, climbing quickly and fluidly, powering out from
the
> deep hollow at the boulder's base, to the massive bulge with its
> slopey pockets, and up to the head wall, with its fossil-like
feather
> pattern. <<<
>
> My goodness! Maybe it's just me, but that comes across as
> borderline erotic....   :)
>
> Jan
>

>>yeah sorry everybody, i'm acting like i'm back in 7th grade today

Joe,

Perhaps you have never done the "Black Hole" and noticed the famous
formation known as the "Clitoris Rock".

Shane

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek
<no_reply@y...> wrote:

> Here's the thing, my wife is not as avid a hiker as me.  Right now,
> she's probably not in good enough shape for that trek.  I plan on
> doing it again, but would like her to experience it. You all probably
> know that feeling of wishing that some person you love was there to
> see this.
>
> So i need advice, do I bring her and risk traumatizing her for life?
> Or do I go it alone and take lots of pics for her?
>
> Granted, a lot depends on the person: she is fairly adventurous, but
> can be a bit anxious.  She will have stamina by then hopefully.  She
> is not as into the views etc as I am, but does appreciate it.  She's
> a social creature, so I figure the many folks of all ages we meet
> going up Angel's Landing will keep her motivated.

I'm an in the middle hiker.  I don't generally do any climbing, but my
favorite hikes are in th 2-4 mile range, although I have done as much
as 6 miles.  I don't really like heights -- the hike up to Inspiration
Point (which I didn't find that inspirational) in Grand Tetons was
good distance and about the right stamina requirement for me, but the
ledges in one spot almost undid me...let's just say it was my limit.

So what's my point?  Let your wife do what she enjoys and you do what
you enjoy.  Why make her not have fun?  There is another option, of
course -- divorce and find a new wife on the trail!  :-)

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Burrows"
<shane@s...> wrote:yeah sorry everybody, i'm acting like i'm back in
7th grade today Joe> Perhaps you have never done the "Black Hole" and
noticed the famous formation known as the "Clitoris Rock". Shane<<<

Come on....we're all mature adults here.  (pause for laughter)  No
photo of such a formation??  Actually I've seen something on Shane's
site (Bryce Canyon if I remember correctly) that looks just like a
disposable douche bottle, plus many other phallic formations for that
matter.....

Jan

Thanks for the info and tips.
i realize not every body has the fever for this stuff. The only
reason for pushing an Angel's Landing jaunt with her is because i
remember being up there thinking "she's got to see this".

come to think of it, we went on about a 7 mile roundtrip hike in
Colorado a few summers ago (Spruce Creek Trail/Mohawk Lakes south of
Breckenridge).  It took stamina, but had nothing like the last .5
miles of Angels Landing was involved.  She got physically and
mentally burnt out very near the end where all the major scenery was
and sat it out while checked out the waterfalls, alpine lake, pockets
of snow, mining ruins.

(Great hikes in that area by the way. I have trail books and maps for
summit co colorado for anyone interested.)

So maybe I'll lay low on the joint venture. I'll show her your trail
descriptions and photo albums and let her make the call. We'll
definitely sample some easier ones together. Maybe Canyon Overlook
will give her a feel for it. I'll sneak out once for something more
extended.  have fun no matter what.







--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "vinlyn2003"
<vinlyn@a...> wrote:
>
> --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> > Here's the thing, my wife is not as avid a hiker as me.  Right
now,
> > she's probably not in good enough shape for that trek.  I plan on
> > doing it again, but would like her to experience it. You all
probably
> > know that feeling of wishing that some person you love was there
to
> > see this.
> >
> > So i need advice, do I bring her and risk traumatizing her for
life?
> > Or do I go it alone and take lots of pics for her?
> >
> > Granted, a lot depends on the person: she is fairly adventurous,
but
> > can be a bit anxious.  She will have stamina by then hopefully.
She
> > is not as into the views etc as I am, but does appreciate it.
She's
> > a social creature, so I figure the many folks of all ages we meet
> > going up Angel's Landing will keep her motivated.
>
> I'm an in the middle hiker.  I don't generally do any climbing, but
my
> favorite hikes are in th 2-4 mile range, although I have done as
much
> as 6 miles.  I don't really like heights -- the hike up to
Inspiration
> Point (which I didn't find that inspirational) in Grand Tetons was
> good distance and about the right stamina requirement for me, but
the
> ledges in one spot almost undid me...let's just say it was my limit.
>
> So what's my point?  Let your wife do what she enjoys and you do
what
> you enjoy.  Why make her not have fun?  There is another option, of
> course -- divorce and find a new wife on the trail!  :-)

I'd never been to Zion in the pre-shuttle era, but hear they are a
great improvement for the park's tranquility.

This said,I hesitate to bring this up for seeming ungrateful for the
shuttles, but what the heck. wouldn't it be even more excellent to
have quieter buses of the hydrogen fuel variety. Its so nice in the
canyon, but then you hear you hear those buses grumbling about
everywhere, thanks to the canyon effect no doubt.

admittedly, I'm ignorant of their feasibility and surely with park
budget its a no can do. always can hope.

Uh oh.  You just dinged one of my little pet peeves.

The Zion shuttles run on Natural Gas, which is currently the least
pollutive choice.

If they ran on Hydrogen, they would make pretty much exactly the
same sound.  Unless, you wanted to spend big bucks and run fuel
cells and electric or something.  The sound isn't really from the
burning of the gas etc, but from taking a big heavy vehicle and
accelerating it up to the astonishing speed of 20 MPH.

I gotta tell you, it is SO much nicer with the shuttles.  In the
summer, Zion canyon used to be an 8-mile long parking lot with
hundreds of vehicles trolling for parking spaces.  'Twas Grim.
Makes for much easier logistics for doing canyons, too.

Tom

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> I'd never been to Zion in the pre-shuttle era, but hear they are a
> great improvement for the park's tranquility.
>
> This said,I hesitate to bring this up for seeming ungrateful for
the shuttles, but what the heck. wouldn't it be even more excellent
to have quieter buses of the hydrogen fuel variety. Its so nice in
the canyon, but then you hear you hear those buses grumbling about
> everywhere, thanks to the canyon effect no doubt.
>
> Admittedly, I'm ignorant of their feasibility and surely with park
> budget its a no can do. always can hope.

~laughing~  I like how you think ;p

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Savanna" <janlloyd@x> wrote:
>
> >>>Then he mounts, climbing quickly and fluidly, powering out from the
> deep hollow at the boulder's base, to the massive bulge with its
> slopey pockets, and up to the head wall, with its fossil-like feather
> pattern. <<<
>
> My goodness! Maybe it's just me, but that comes across as
> borderline erotic....   :)
>
> Jan

I am so observant ~blush~

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Jones" <ratagoni@x>
wrote:
>
> Uh, it IS in the Opinion Section - under Public Forum aka Letters to
> the Editor.
>
> T

Or go on vacation with your favorite hiking partner and leave the wife at home.
;)

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "vinlyn2003" <vinlyn@a...>
wrote:
> I'm an in the middle hiker.  I don't generally do any climbing, but my
> favorite hikes are in th 2-4 mile range, although I have done as much
> as 6 miles.  I don't really like heights -- the hike up to Inspiration
> Point (which I didn't find that inspirational) in Grand Tetons was
> good distance and about the right stamina requirement for me, but the
> ledges in one spot almost undid me...let's just say it was my limit.
>
> So what's my point?  Let your wife do what she enjoys and you do what
> you enjoy.  Why make her not have fun?  There is another option, of
> course -- divorce and find a new wife on the trail!  :-)

The article did talk about a woman -- the rest is up to your imagination. ;)


"Rock legend Lynn Hill, who lives in Boulder and has climbed at all of
the regions replicated at the Spot, says the Boulder gym — and
features like the Austin Feather — represent a fledgling trend, as
some deep-pocketed owners and farsighted rock-trepreneurs begin to
shift from plywood-paneled, hard-angled surfaces to textured and
curvaceous structures simulating the real McCoy.

Soon enough, Hill predicts, climbers around the country will have the
option of experiencing extremely realistic knockoffs in the comfort
of an indoor environment — something she has mixed feelings about.

A longtime pro who has climbed some of the world's toughest big walls
(she is still the only climber to free ascend El Capitan's the Nose
in one day, which she did in 1994), Hill enjoys indoor climbing — in
fact, loves having easy access to a knockoff of Fontainebleau, one of
her favorite climbing regions.

But she worries that people who spend too much time on man-made
surfaces miss an essential part of the sport."

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "JoeB" <joe@c...> wrote:
>
> Ha ha, I agree! Now, to counter-balance, we need a news article
> about women descending from warm and inviting slot canyons and
> hoodoo formations.
>
> (yeah sorry everybody, i'm acting like i'm back in 7th grade today)

On our South Canyon hike we ran into one such formation and never did find out
the
name, but Bo thought there was a phallic reference in the name.. maybe to
Geranimo?

Phallic rock
<http://tinyurl.com/6j3af>

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Savanna" <janlloyd@x> wrote:
>
> --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Burrows"
> <shane@s...> wrote:yeah sorry everybody, i'm acting like i'm back in
> 7th grade today Joe> Perhaps you have never done the "Black Hole" and
> noticed the famous formation known as the "Clitoris Rock". Shane<<<
>
> Come on....we're all mature adults here.  (pause for laughter)  No
> photo of such a formation??  Actually I've seen something on Shane's
> site (Bryce Canyon if I remember correctly) that looks just like a
> disposable douche bottle, plus many other phallic formations for that
> matter.....
>
> Jan

When I went up to Angels Landing to take photos I took my 9 year old daughter
and 9 year
old granddaughter with me.  I left them at Scouts Outlook, where they were
suppose to
stay!

  I was at the top taking photos and they showed up.  I look back at the photos
of them
going back down that trail and it was scarey. (Not to mention there was a
lightening
storms on the east side of the park headed our way and it was going to be dark
for the
hike down.  The shuttle driver was no help with his cougar stories either. lol)

At the time I thought I was behind them all the time when we were near a ledge
with arms
out behind them...  watching them the whole way, but looking at the photos shows
a
different story.

For an adult the trail seems very safe, but with someone afraid of heights or a
kid its very
different.  I don't suggest any kids go on this trail by the way.

kids hopping at Angels
http://tinyurl.com/6nlpa

http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/albums/index21.htm


--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info and tips.
> i realize not every body has the fever for this stuff. The only
> reason for pushing an Angel's Landing jaunt with her is because i
> remember being up there thinking "she's got to see this".
>
> come to think of it, we went on about a 7 mile roundtrip hike in
> Colorado a few summers ago (Spruce Creek Trail/Mohawk Lakes south of
> Breckenridge).  It took stamina, but had nothing like the last .5
> miles of Angels Landing was involved.  She got physically and
> mentally burnt out very near the end where all the major scenery was
> and sat it out while checked out the waterfalls, alpine lake, pockets
> of snow, mining ruins.
>
> (Great hikes in that area by the way. I have trail books and maps for
> summit co colorado for anyone interested.)
>
> So maybe I'll lay low on the joint venture. I'll show her your trail
> descriptions and photo albums and let her make the call. We'll
> definitely sample some easier ones together. Maybe Canyon Overlook
> will give her a feel for it. I'll sneak out once for something more
> extended.  have fun no matter what.

Although the Shuttles have devistated the East Zion area I am glad the park has
them.
Parking is scarce in Zion Canyon in the winter these days let alone the summer,
spring or
fall.  Weeping Rock parking lot is almost always packed on a warm summer day
like when
we hiked to Hidden Canyon a bit ago.  March is crazy and I have little doubt
soon the park
will have to run them that early.

Its also makes it nice to do things like hike up the Kayenta Trail and return on
the lower or
middle Emerald Pools Trail or if someone wanted to brave horses start at the 3
Patriarches
and end at the Emerald Pools Trailhead... etc....

Most of all its the reason my kids like to hike ~laughing~  They love riding in
the front seat
of the trail shuttle. ;p


--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Jones" <ratagoni@x>
wrote:
>
> Uh oh.  You just dinged one of my little pet peeves.
>
> The Zion shuttles run on Natural Gas, which is currently the least
> pollutive choice.
>
> If they ran on Hydrogen, they would make pretty much exactly the
> same sound.  Unless, you wanted to spend big bucks and run fuel
> cells and electric or something.  The sound isn't really from the
> burning of the gas etc, but from taking a big heavy vehicle and
> accelerating it up to the astonishing speed of 20 MPH.
>
> I gotta tell you, it is SO much nicer with the shuttles.  In the
> summer, Zion canyon used to be an 8-mile long parking lot with
> hundreds of vehicles trolling for parking spaces.  'Twas Grim.
> Makes for much easier logistics for doing canyons, too.
>
> Tom
>
> --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I'd never been to Zion in the pre-shuttle era, but hear they are a
> > great improvement for the park's tranquility.
> >
> > This said,I hesitate to bring this up for seeming ungrateful for
> the shuttles, but what the heck. wouldn't it be even more excellent
> to have quieter buses of the hydrogen fuel variety. Its so nice in
> the canyon, but then you hear you hear those buses grumbling about
> > everywhere, thanks to the canyon effect no doubt.
> >
> > Admittedly, I'm ignorant of their feasibility and surely with park
> > budget its a no can do. always can hope.

I have taken kids a ton. Couple of observations from looking at not
only that picture, but the whole album. Their body language and
positions tell a tale. True, these were still photos, but you can see
that they have respect for the drops and consequences, without it
parallizing them. They also move thru gracefully. Note how they are
facing out and bending properly on the downclimbs. Perfect positions.
While not suggesting unsupervised ramples, it is apparent that these
kids have spirit, have some talent for it and are naturals. Continue
to foster the love of exploration
Ram


> When I went up to Angels Landing to take photos I took my 9 year old
daughter and 9 year old granddaughter with me.  I left them at Scouts
Outlook, where they were suppose to  stay!  I was at the top taking
photos and they showed up.  I look back at the photos of them  going
back down that trail and it was scarey.

You must sleep like me!  Very little! ;)

They were not scared in the least, which is what scares me!  I have no doubt
they are
competent to hike up there, but why risk it?

I feel the same way about Hidden Canyon.  I took my 7 and 8 year old up that one
and
really did not like taking them along the narrow ledges although for someone
older I think
it is perfectly safe... for them too, but I am protective of little people.

My kids do risky things like Judo (brutal sport), Gymnastics, Dance, Karate and
do hike
often (weekly most of the year) but when a kid is on a high narrow ledge it
brings out all
those protective feelings in me even though as you point out they are probably
safer and
more graceful than most of us adults!

Bo seems to be my 4 year olds idol.  The boy climbs everything in site and talks
of Bo all
the time!  He is not proficent at one hand climbing up the front of the fridge.
;)



--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "adkramoo" <adkramoo@a...>
wrote:
>
> I have taken kids a ton. Couple of observations from looking at not
> only that picture, but the whole album. Their body language and
> positions tell a tale. True, these were still photos, but you can see
> that they have respect for the drops and consequences, without it
> parallizing them. They also move thru gracefully. Note how they are
> facing out and bending properly on the downclimbs. Perfect positions.
> While not suggesting unsupervised ramples, it is apparent that these
> kids have spirit, have some talent for it and are naturals. Continue
> to foster the love of exploration
> Ram

The Zion Canyon Field Institute will present "Romance in the
Sky," an astronomy course for those 16 years old and older beginning at 7:30
p.m. Feb. 11
in Zion National Park at the Human History Museum. The fee is $5 and
pre-registration is
required. For more information, call 772-3264.

http://www.thespectrum.com/news/stories/20050202/localnews/1944759.html

Way back when, my father took me up Angel's Landing when I was 6. It
was the absolute scariest thing I had ever done but I loved it! As
my revenge for him torturing me at an early age, in my adult life, I
drag him back to Zion every year and make him do long remote hikes,
climbing, rappelling and swimming through skanky water. Gives him
the same rush I had as a kid. heh heh

When I have kids, I'll probably be paranoid about taking them on
something like Angel's Landing or even that exposed approach to
Hidden Canyon. If they love the hiking thing and can keep a cool
head, then I'd go for it, but I'd be watching them like a hawk. And
I'd never force them to do anything that was beyond their comfort
level. That would be a disaster.

When are you going to get around to having kids by the way. ;)

It's a parent decision.  I am cautious on the website since kids are all so
different.  Some
kids will enjoy doing hard canyons and other kids would whine and cry through
them,
some kids get hurt all day (normal child klutz things) doing little of nothing,
others are
more graceful and rarely get themselves into trouble.  Parents know their kids
best.  I have
little doubt you will have a wild, agile and daring child that will grow up and
drag you
through all the torment you are now doing to your dad!  ~laughing~

I bet you are the kind of son that every dad would love to have!   How does a
parent go
about getting their kids to enjoy hiking with them after they are grown?  I bet
many dads
want to know that secret!

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "JoeB" <joe@c...> wrote:
>
> Way back when, my father took me up Angel's Landing when I was 6. It
> was the absolute scariest thing I had ever done but I loved it! As
> my revenge for him torturing me at an early age, in my adult life, I
> drag him back to Zion every year and make him do long remote hikes,
> climbing, rappelling and swimming through skanky water. Gives him
> the same rush I had as a kid. heh heh
>
> When I have kids, I'll probably be paranoid about taking them on
> something like Angel's Landing or even that exposed approach to
> Hidden Canyon. If they love the hiking thing and can keep a cool
> head, then I'd go for it, but I'd be watching them like a hawk. And
> I'd never force them to do anything that was beyond their comfort
> level. That would be a disaster.

it was just a wishful thought for improving things. You obviously
know a little bit about the mechanics of such vehicles. I do remember
seeing that the buses don't belch out smoke like ones elsewhere.
are you saying that its not possible for buses to be improved upon
noise-wise without causing some other problem?

The only quiet and eco-friendly option would maybe be a giant
rickshaw.  Too bad they can't be powered Flinstone style.
Anyway, thanks for the info.


--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Jones"
<ratagoni@x> wrote:
>
> Uh oh.  You just dinged one of my little pet peeves.
>
> The Zion shuttles run on Natural Gas, which is currently the least
> pollutive choice.
>
> If they ran on Hydrogen, they would make pretty much exactly the
> same sound.  Unless, you wanted to spend big bucks and run fuel
> cells and electric or something.  The sound isn't really from the
> burning of the gas etc, but from taking a big heavy vehicle and
> accelerating it up to the astonishing speed of 20 MPH.
>
> I gotta tell you, it is SO much nicer with the shuttles.  In the
> summer, Zion canyon used to be an 8-mile long parking lot with
> hundreds of vehicles trolling for parking spaces.  'Twas Grim.
> Makes for much easier logistics for doing canyons, too.
>
> Tom
>
> --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I'd never been to Zion in the pre-shuttle era, but hear they are
a
> > great improvement for the park's tranquility.
> >
> > This said,I hesitate to bring this up for seeming ungrateful for
> the shuttles, but what the heck. wouldn't it be even more excellent
> to have quieter buses of the hydrogen fuel variety. Its so nice in
> the canyon, but then you hear you hear those buses grumbling about
> > everywhere, thanks to the canyon effect no doubt.
> >
> > Admittedly, I'm ignorant of their feasibility and surely with
park
> > budget its a no can do. always can hope.

Is she willing to risk it?  I land on the side of caution on this
one.  Is she motivated enough to do this hike to start walking with
you now?  If she goes and hates it you could ruin her on it, not to
mention the error of taking people into situations that are beyond
them can be dangerous.  Unfortunately, only you can make this choice
based on what you know of your spouses personality.

I have accepted the fact that my girlfriend's love for adventure
does not reach as far as mine, it hasn't been a problem for our
relationship.  We enjoy hiking together and I make time to do things
that are at her pace and she in turn has never given me a bad time
about going and doing the things I love.

Neil

--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, dstriek
<no_reply@y...> wrote:

Here's the thing, my wife is not as avid a hiker as me.  Right now,
she's probably not in good enough shape for that trek.  I plan on
doing it again, but would like her to experience it. You all
probably know that feeling of wishing that some person you love was
there to see this.

So i need advice, do I bring her and risk traumatizing her for life?