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Would Wittgenstein Have Liked Ray Monk?   Message List  
Reply Message #7146 of 7229 |
Re: [Wittrs] Would Wittgenstein Have Liked Ray Monk?

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Han Geurdes <han.geurdes@...> wrote:
> Well Kirby,
>
> Perhaps, perhaps. In any case I like your approach! Have a good 2012!
>
> One Universe is already difficult enough. I agree!

Hey thanks.

It's been coming together more for me.

'Titanic' is an influence in that you start in "modern times" with this
somewhat classless (socially) caste of engineers. They speak
crassly, as technologists, the Morlocks of our day.

Then we fade to the highly classist more tea cuppy Victorian
world of the Titanic's maiden voyage, where, in this made-for-TV
production, we substitute Wittgenstein's Vienna and Russell's
England for the 'Titanic' set and caste (which featured a younger
DiCaprio -- sorry if I was using two p's earlier in this thread).

We may end in Ithaca, New York (I'm thinking to skip any
"death bed" scene -- though we may show the grave site,
zooming in using Google Earth in present time).

In our day, a young woman engineer at the Prineville, OR facility
(based on this real world Facebook data center) drives around in a
somewhat desolate environment, wanders among cliffs, having these
visions / insights that make her a chief engineer, but also a candidate
for some reincarnation hypothesis, never explicitly proposed let alone
proved (thinking of the movie 'My Reincarnation' recently reviewed
in my blogs [1]).

But we give her some of the same qualities, of intensity, sometimes
sharpness and impatience, and a strong propensity to spend time
alone, walking in nature or scribbling on paper, punching keys, looking
at networks and long scrolls of cryptic symbols -- she's doing philosophy
in other words (applied to world gaming enterprises (WGE might
be the company?)).

Having this setting is useful for occasionally jumping us out of the
story and moving to present day, where the mobile devices, laptops
and desktops have entirely transformed what we mean by "language",
with system architecture and design never more consciously under
human control as in this Internet age. It's the age of the icon like
never before.

In explaining the significance of Wittgenstein's philosophy, we
sometimes want to flash forward to this data center (somewhat
austere), where literal "games" flash and blink on the screens,
people pouring over them intently.

Come to think of it, our data center is a combination of Facebook
and like some tribal casino: language at work (not idling).

Then we jump back to Continental philosophy and the period
between those two wars, and the beginnings of logic and
computer programming. They didn't know they were giving
birth to computer programming (Leibniz, Pascal and Ada
maybe did, at different times), but we know that with hindsight.
Software encodes business rules these days, as well as
legislation. Sophia gave birth, to yet another child wonder.

Given our premise that Wittgenstein is a hero, is effective, and
is playing to win, his service to Russian intelligence has to be
portrayed as anti tyrannical and anti fascist.

In terms of his encouraging young men to stand up against
these evils, we have no PR problem there. Hemingway was
doing the same thing. The Spanish Civil War was a front and
the "good guys" (lots of women) were standing up against
Hitler and Musso.

Wittgenstein was one of them in spirit.

<< Picasso's Guernica.

More language, with sudden silence for sound?

Perhaps between shots of bombers overhead, sirens. >>

The cast should feature some American pilots who've been friends
with the Russians against Third Reich Eugencis (ethnic cleansing)
and don't end those friendships with the rise of our more
Total Information Awareness type society complete with wiretaps
and bugs (Cold War beginnings) and now web cams and social
network monitoring tools.

We could loosely base a character on Man X from the movie
'JFK', implying they're somehow the same figure, only this time
we're looking at a Russian-American affiliation.

Actually no, same problem as my interview with the BBC dude:
I'm in the wrong time period, thinking about U2 Gary Powers,
Eisenhower, and the dismantling of FDR's bold experiment
with strong government. Per RBF's telling, the lawyer-capitalist
mindset rolled it back to create the global Grunch of Giants we
today associate with the corporate personhood / soullessness
and the debates about legal fictions and their role in governance.
[2][3]

But we need that arc to keep Wittgenstein somewhat prescient
and heroic. He was better than most at thinking outside the
box and was not sucked in by the ideologies of his day.

His being on the side of the Russians, cast in this light, is
relatively benign in that he's seeing the same "withering of the
state" we are, in some globalizing grunchy zeitgeist, and he's
willing to help nurse some new kind of global network of
intelligence community personnel, somewhat distinct from
academia, with its own titles and awards (the willingness to
live among those under study, sometimes in hardship
situations, is not everyone's cup of tea).

It's his crossing this line that gets our focus in this TV show,
less the judgment of "British subjects" whom we see as still
stuck in an obsolete mindset (more tainted with Roman
imperialism). There's a "beyond good and evil" aspect to
his work.

The tone is somewhat like in the movie 'Beautiful Mind' (might
be a few jokes there), except Wittgenstein would be less
like the confused John Nash character (Russell Crowe)
and more like the self confidant Parcher character (Ed Harris).

The last puzzle piece (or one of the last) is Beltaine and
Frazer's Golden Bough.... (Whitney has more flash
backs and visions).

What our Wittgenstein despises is scapegoating, witch
hunting, demonizing. He's prototypically open source in
his "everything is in plain view" approach to philosophy.
He's not trying to keep a lot of secrets so much as induce
aspect shifts, gestalts switches, new ways of looking in
he's readers. He sees himself as a catalyst to that end.

He sees bewitchment by means of language, the spells
it casts, as keeping humans in a thralldom it needn't
accept. Prisoners of their own minds, of their own
straitjacketing superstitions. Poor slobs. Misanthropy
is a chief occupational hazard, usually projected at
specific "bad guys" (e.g "bankers") by the scapegoaters.

Someday, a more advanced ethnicity (as if from Mars --
tip of the hat to Nabil's character) will free itself from
this clap trap. He hopes he's helped show the way.

Kirby

Notes:
[1] http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-reincarnation-movie-review.html
[2] http://www.prouty.org/dulles.html
[3] http://bit.ly/uKv672

File for later:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Duckrabbit.jpg

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Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:01 am

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Message #7146 of 7229 |
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(reply to Kirby re: Monk's radio performance) ... I thought Monk's comments were perfect, as usual. His point about Wittgenstein not liking him isn't local: I...
Sean Wilson
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Dec 16, 2011
1:18 am

... Yes, I confess to only listening through Monk imagining himself being terrified of Wittgenstein, when I had to hit pause, ironically to attend the...
kirby urner
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Dec 16, 2011
3:07 am

... I linked to this thread from 'Comic Interlude' in my journals: http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2011/12/comic-interlude.html (last sentence brings you back)...
kirby urner
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Dec 17, 2011
11:43 pm

... That's amusing and had never occurred to me. But two comparisons had... Hugh Laurie, star of "House", but also featured in "A Bit of Frye & Laurie",...
John Phillip DeMouy
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Dec 18, 2011
3:42 am

... Hey thank you for connecting more dots for me. Networks through more modern media, not just books, is a hallmark of some brands of scholarship. ...
kirby urner
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Dec 18, 2011
6:48 pm

You're most welcome. I'd supposed you'd enjoy those connections. Personally, I tend to find that sort of thing a bit fanciful - entertaining, though I often...
John Phillip DeMouy
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Dec 19, 2011
3:58 am

... For me part of the point is getting away from treating language as some highly restricted subset of human activities that does not include, for example,...
kirby urner
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Dec 19, 2011
8:13 pm

May I add Wittgenstein for music? Han. Op 19 dec. 2011 21:13 schreef "kirby urner" <kirby.urner@...> het ... An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL:...
Han Geurdes
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Dec 19, 2011
8:18 pm

I wanted to clarify that I am no way expressing some sort of snobbery for the printed page, though I am well aware of such biases. I have no problem with the...
John Phillip DeMouy
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Dec 23, 2011
1:45 pm

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:02 PM, John Phillip DeMouy <jpdemouy@...> wrote: <...> ... << pause tape >> So this is where I'd have this like Monty Python...
kirby urner
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Dec 23, 2011
9:38 pm

... I think if we indulge Cornish for 10 seconds and admit to some unowned consciousness without an object, that wo/men might somehow channel and/or manipulate...
kirby urner
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Dec 28, 2011
10:12 pm

... Just to clarify: Steve was saying how Hammond deserved the prize. He's quite humbly self-effacing himself, yet had a front row seat in bio-engineering....
kirby urner
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Dec 29, 2011
1:11 am

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:48 AM, kirby urner <kirby.urner@...> wrote: << ... >> ... Continuing with the idea of a fictionalized made-for-TV movie of...
kirby urner
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Dec 31, 2011
6:32 pm

Indeed. Perhaps raising questions about language that provide 'reasons to die for'.... Uebermensch and that kind of stuff. However, would your LW have liked...
Han Geurdes
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Dec 31, 2011
6:48 pm

... Dunno, was meditating earlier on what that might mean. In what parallel universe? I imagined him a contemporary, working in Prineville, OR, helping...
kirby urner
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Dec 31, 2011
7:35 pm

Well Kirby, Perhaps, perhaps. In any case I like your approach! Have a good 2012! One Universe is already difficult enough. I agree! Op 31 dec. 2011 20:35...
Han Geurdes
wittrs@... Send Email
Dec 31, 2011
8:26 pm

... Hey thanks. It's been coming together more for me. 'Titanic' is an influence in that you start in "modern times" with this somewhat classless (socially)...
kirby urner
wittrs@... Send Email
Jan 2, 2012
3:01 am

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 7:01 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner@...> wrote: << snip >> ... I'm introducing the theme of Wittgenstein's feelings of alienation ...
kirby urner
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Jan 7, 2012
7:57 am

Given Sean's interest in Originalism and Kirby's interest in tying Wittgenstein in with Progressive politics, I wanted to bring up an issue of ordinary...
John Phillip DeMouy
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Jan 9, 2012
10:03 pm

... Yes, I'm OK saying I'm doing some kind of "tying" there, or dot connecting. My focus has been more an investigation of how shaping meanings involves...
kirby urner
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Jan 10, 2012
9:03 am

I'd be remiss not to mention a philosopher you've brought up from time to time. He likely won't be found in any anthologies of contemporary philosophy and it...
John Phillip DeMouy
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Jan 10, 2012
5:42 pm

... Thanks for serving it back and having Stallman in the packet, a part of the payload. Yes he's a great philosopher around the turn of the millennium (also a...
kirby urner
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Jan 10, 2012
9:11 pm

<< ... >> http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/makeover1.html (from the ruins -- old web page of mine re Chomsky some) ... [3]...
kirby urner
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Jan 10, 2012
9:14 pm

... "with RBF, a greater philosopher than Kant certainly" -- the valance there was with RBF, not trying to harness / saddle EJA with those onerous chops /...
kirby urner
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Jan 10, 2012
10:34 pm
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