WestMichiganHams : Messages : 7025-7054 of 7205

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I can see both sides of the issue, I think. So here are some questions:

"Totally defeats
my ability to listen for OTHER operators, such as
those who might be cruising through town and
look for a brief conversation or for directions to
find gas, a restaurant, or the like."

The conversational users of the '52 can't give directions and/or other local information? I am pretty sure that someone cruising through town looking for a brief conversation would get their wish, as well. So, it's your ability to listen, not your ability to make a call that is 'defeated', correct?

"But if two or three
fellers monopolize the frequency for a 3 hour
rag chew, other operators have to lock that
frequency out and stop scanning it, or else their
scanners would stick on that one frequency and
play the three hour rag chew - it won't scan if
there is a signal, and if they talk for 3 hours that
is all I would ever hear, and my rig won't scan any
other channel until they stop."

Does your rig not change channels because the '52 ops aren't allowing a second or two between exchanges, or is it because your scanning feature is set to delay? Or just delays and has no 'instantaneous' feature? Some radios also have features for a time limit, like 2 seconds for stopping on scan.

"which they are entitled to talk about,
but I cannot make contact with anyone else
who might cruise through town until they get off."

So, why can't you break in and make a contact?

"I know many hams who have simply given up
monitoring the calling frequency, because it
does not work as it could."

Truthfully, what do you think makes the most people not monitor '52, a few guys chatting for 3 out of 24 hours, or no traffic at all, for days, weeks and even months on end?

"This is a hot topic, so I don't wanna do any
more than answer your question as to how it
matters to other operators. Not illegal... just
defeats the calling frequency idea."

It is also a topic in which rational discussion may lead to some long term improvements. Did you know that when calling frequencies were first contrived, it was standard practice to stay there and have conversations? This was prior to the VFO days. It wasn't until maybe 20 years ago that someone, the ARRL perhaps, came up with the idea that once the contact was made to clear the frequency. That practice was swiped from the marine radio service, Ch. 16 VHF.

Learning a little about the history of calling frequencies shows that the way they have been used throughout history has changed. Maybe it's time to once again reconsider the methodology behind the use of '52.

"Sorry, Tom... I live by the highway and when I
got into ham radio, I was sorta looking forward to
talking to people on the radio, but have had to
give up on the calling freq concept. Since everybody
wants to be PC and not rock the boat, it just goes
on as you say."

Why does the boat have to be rocked? Is it all that tough to discuss uses and possible changes of a single frequency without getting emotional about it? As for talking to people, aren't the number of people on '52 simplex a minutia compared to the number of folks on the repeaters, especially the linked system?

To be honest, and Tim N8NET can vouch for this, I was first totally against rag chewing on '52. So I decided to check the 'culprits' out.

1) Would they let me break in with no problem? -- Yep.

2) Would they stop chatting long enough for me to make a call? -- Yep.

3) Would they let me join the QSO? -- Yep.

4) Would any one of them QSY with me because I didn't want to tie up the '52 -- Yep.

Hmmm.....they aren't breaking any rules, they all seemed to be accommodating and polite. So I reconsidered. I also found out that this issue is going on all over the US, and not just on 2 meters. People are actually rag chewing on the 6 m SSB calling frequency, too.

I also found out that one of Rileys career highlights was erroneously citing some hams for rag chewing on the '52. Riley was big time wrong and had to rescind the citations.

I guess that's part of the calling frequency history, too.

Mark K8MHZ

PS I think I may change my QRZ signature to '146.52? Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded'.

-----Original Message-----
From: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Richards
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:20 PM
To: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] Reminder: Armageddon Net Exercise Dec. 29th (Saturday) 10:00 am.

On 12/30/2012 10:56 AM, Mark wrote:

> If the people chatting on '52 readily give up the
> frequency, how do they impede the process of making a contact? In
> actuality, they may even be able to assist people in their attempts to
> make contacts.?

----------------------------------------------------------

Since you ask...

Because others want to monitor the calling
frequency on their radios, and make contact
when someone else calls in. But if two or three
fellers monopolize the frequency for a 3 hour
rag chew, other operators have to lock that
frequency out and stop scanning it, or else their
scanners would stick on that one frequency and
play the three hour rag chew - it won't scan if
there is a signal, and if they talk for 3 hours that
is all I would ever hear, and my rig won't scan any
other channel until they stop. Totally defeats
my ability to listen for OTHER operators, such as
those who might be cruising through town and
look for a brief conversation or for directions to
find gas, a restaurant, or the like. I have simply
had to lock out the calling frequency and no longer
monitor it - because they will tie up my rig for
hours every day with pretty much the same
old schtick - which they are entitled to talk about,
but I cannot make contact with anyone else
who might cruise through town until they get off.

I know many hams who have simply given up
monitoring the calling frequency, because it
does not work as it could.

This is a hot topic, so I don't wanna do any
more than answer your question as to how it
matters to other operators. Not illegal... just
defeats the calling frequency idea.

Sorry, Tom... I live by the highway and when I
got into ham radio, I was sorta looking forward to
talking to people on the radio, but have had to
give up on the calling freq concept. Since everybody
wants to be PC and not rock the boat, it just goes
on as you say.

---------------------------- K8JHR --------------------

#7026

From: Hank Greeb <n8xx@...>
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:46 pm
Subject: Re: What's all the fuss about 146.52 MHz, anyway?

n8xxham

Back in the ancient daze, just after we gave up Sp*rk Gaps for transmitters, and coherer's for detectors, a bunch of us got "low band" VHF radios (those with the glass things which "light up" when current was applied - does anyone else remember those gadgets), and converted them to 53.05 MHz simpleplex Funny Modulation. This was down in Cincinnati. We had over 50 on frequency, and the frequency was in use much of the day, and sometimes even into the wee hours of the morning.

Anyone who needed help, or who wanted to contact their home base, etc., could break in, everyone else would stand by, and let the "real information" pass. After the "real business" was finished, the "usual" drivel would continue.

Folks who don't have tolerance for legal operation on 146.52 MHz should read part 97 and/or other parts of the FCC rules. It is perfectly legal to drone on and on, forever, 24/7 on 146.52 or any other frequency, as long as ID every 10 minutes. And, there SHOULD be short "breaks" during ID time, so that another edgewise word can get his/or her operator in. If someone says "Emergency" or "Priority" or even "Breaker channel 52, come back"between breaks, then the "drivel" should stop, the the "real" communications take precedence, and then the "drivel" may continue.

If you don't like this legal form of communication, perhaps you're in the wrong hobby/service.

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time

p.s. I use 2 meter Funny Modulation from time to time, but haven't had a rig permanently mounted in my automobubble for at least 7 years, the age of my current vehicle.

#7027

From: Richards <jruing@...>
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:28 pm
Subject: Re: Reminder: Armageddon Net Exercise Dec. 29th (Saturday) 10:00 am.

jruingggg

> The conversational users of the '52 can't give directions and/or other
> local information?


		 Sure... but that cuts me and everybody
		 else out.   They continue to monopolize
		 the channel.



> it's your ability to listen, not your ability to make a call that is
> 'defeated', correct?


		 Both... but you are getting it.




> Does your rig not change channels because the '52 ops aren't allowing a
> second or two between exchanges, or is it because your scanning feature
> is set to delay? Or just delays and has no 'instantaneous' feature?
> Some radios also have features for a time limit, like 2 seconds for
> stopping on scan.


		 Good questions.    Let's put it into perspective
		 with an example -  the guys on 53 pause a bit
		 to catch their breath, as is usual in any conversation,
		 so the rig releases the channel and scans.  Then
		 it scans for another busy channel.

		 Finding none busy, it catches 52 when they start
		 up again - and instead of my listening for a contact,
		 I end up listening to them rag chew.

		 Or, let's assume the rig finds another busy channel,
		 say, the Lowell repeater, then it holds that until
		 they take a break, and then the guys on 52 catch
		 the attention of the scanner, and we are back to
		 them until they catch their breath again.

		 But... in any case, all the while 52 continues their
		 local rag chew session, I cannot monitor 52 and
		 make my own contacts.   If a traveler does cut
		 into their conversation, THEY get the contact
		 and handle the questions... in any case, they
		 cut me out.

		 But wait... there's more:

		 Meanwhile, nobody can call ME on 52 and ask
		 ME  to QSY to a simplex channel.  I cannot call
		 YOU to make contact, and QSY with you to another
		 channel.   I cannot call you - even if I interrupt
		 them - because you and the rest of the ham
		 community quit monitoring the channel long ago.

		 I should not have to beg permission from the
		 other guys to use 52 to make a new contact.
		 The whole idea is that it is always open for that
		 sort of thing.    But you cannot call me on 52, either,
		 because I blocked that frequency on the scanner
		 so I don't have to listen to their rag chew session
		 every afternoon.

		 And this actually matters, because none of my
		 ham friends monitor 52 any more - because they
		 don't want to listen to those guys every day, hoping
		 somebody else will cut in -  but, again, if they are on
		 they will deal with the new contact, I will have to
		 barge in and steal the contact to get involved, and
		 nobody is going to work that hard.

		 Unfortunately, it seems this way in a lot of places
		 across the country, so many traveling hams don't
		 even try 52 any more.   But, maybe they would if
		 it worked the way it might.




> So, why can't you break in and make a contact?


		 Because I should not have to.  It is supposed
		 to be open so anyone can call and make
		 contact and then leave it open to the
		 rest of the community to do so.

		 Besides, none of my friends monitor 52 any
		 more, so they are not listening for me to
		 call them there.   They don't wanna listen to
		 the rag chew guys all afternoon, either, so they
		 simply don't monitor 52 any more... again,
		 defeating the whole idea of an open calling
		 frequency for everybody.  That effectively
		 converts it into their personal, private channel,
		 and defeats the notion of an open, free for all
		 calling frequency.



> Truthfully, what do you think makes the most people not monitor '52, a
> few guys chatting for 3 out of 24 hours, or no traffic at all, for days,
> weeks and even months on end?

		 Good question.   I doubt we can say for sure
		 either way, but I think it is most likely that
		 there is no traffic on 52 because so many
		 hams have killed it off in this manner.   This
		 has been discussed on many nationwide internet
		 ham discussion groups, so it seems to be a problem
		 in many places, and it is possible the majority of
		 hams have has simply given up on 52 - so nobody
		 uses it much in this way any more.

		 That means a few has changed it for the  many,
		 and considering I am one of the many, I lament
		 the loss of something good.





> It is also a topic in which rational discussion may lead to some long
> term improvements.


	 Yes... so far it has been plenty civil here.




It wasn't until maybe 20
> years ago that someone, the ARRL perhaps, came up with the idea that
> once the contact was made to clear the frequency.  That practice was
> swiped from the marine radio service, Ch. 16 VHF.
> Learning a little about the history of calling frequencies shows that
> the way they have been used throughout history has changed.  Maybe it's
> time to once again reconsider the methodology behind the use of '52.



		 Perhaps you are right.   Perhaps it is changing
		 on its own, in an organic way, as opposed to
		 any intentional plan promulgated from above.




> Why does the boat have to be rocked?  Is it all that tough to discuss
> uses and possible changes of a single frequency without getting
> emotional about it?    As for talking to people, aren't the number of
> people on '52 simplex a minutia compared to the number of folks on the
> repeaters, especially the linked system?


		 You may be right about the statistics.

		 Unfortunately, no matter how civil and how
		 rational the debate is HERE... and it has been,
		 it is impossible to discuss the matter with the
		 crowd on 52.   They say it is "legal" and have
		 no patience or interest in discussing the impact
		 or significance of any general understandings,
		 or gentlemens' agreements, and the conversation
		 is over.  I negotiated the resolution of hundreds
		 of heated disputes, including a fair number of
		 heated divorces, but diplomacy has not chance
		 for success.   I mentioned this to an ARRL Section
		 Manager - and he told me to simply give up and
		 let them go.    It is this sort of "tolerance" that
		 allows a minority to overtake the majority.




> To be honest, and Tim N8NET can vouch for this, I was first totally
> against rag chewing on '52.   So I decided to check the 'culprits' out.

> 1)  Would they let me break in with no problem? --  Yep.
> 2)  Would they stop chatting long enough for me to make a call?  -- Yep.
> 3)  Would they let me join the QSO?  -- Yep.
> 4)  Would any one of them QSY with me because I didn't want to tie up
> the '52 -- Yep.




		 Yes... but they should do this as
		 a matter of courtesy to others.


> Hmmm.....they aren't breaking any rules, they all seemed to be
> accommodating and polite.  So I reconsidered.  I also found out that this
> issue is going on all over the US, and not just on 2 meters.  People are
> actually rag chewing on the 6 m SSB calling frequency, too.



		 OK... then I suppose we will have to give up
		 the whole notion of a calling frequency.

		 While they might have yield easily... the
		 whole point is that no one should have to
		 ask for it.

		 They don't violate any rules, per se... but they
		 unilaterally void a useful common practice.


		 We are now sliding down the old slippery slope.
		 How far are you willing to go... should we also
		 abandon the band plans ?   After all, those are not
		 mandated by the Rules, either.   How many long
		 established practices should yield to a few guys
		 who don't wanna play ball?   Should my friends
		 and I set conduct our 6 hour nightly net on the
		 MidCars frequency, or the one used by the ARRL
		 for code practice bulletins?  That would be legal,
		 and not violate any rules.  Should we move our
		 SSB net into the CW portion of the band, because,
		 after all, it gets kinda crowded in the phone
		 portion of the band ?  How many of the long
		 established gentlemens' agreements are we
		 willing to void in this way?




>   I also found out that one of Rileys career highlights was erroneously
> citing some hams for rag chewing on the '52.  Riley was big time wrong
> and had to rescind the citations. I guess that's part of the calling frequency
history, too.


		 Yes.   No doubt no one is operating illegally...
		 just operating so as to defeat notion of a calling
		 frequency.  The fact they call it such gives it
		 meaning.  Otherwise it is just another simplex
		 channel.

		 Perhaps there are not enough hams willing
		 to stand by the practice to support and
		 maintain it.   Like so many things in our
		 socio-political environment, few are willing
		 to stand up and speak out  - they just go
		 with the flow, and while that is their choice,
		 it is not mine.  Silly me... I speak my mind!
		 ;-)      The XYL thinks I will get shot for that
		 someday ...    ;-)


	 GOOD QUESTIONS-- GOOD DISCUSSION HERE.

	 I APPEARS I MAY BE OUT-VOTED ON THE ISSUE...  ;-)


HAPPY DAYS AND HAPPY HOLIDAY, MARK.

________________JHR___________________

#7028

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 4:40 pm
Subject: RE: Reminder: Armageddon Net Exercise Dec. 29th (Saturday) 10:00 am.

k8mhz

Happy New Year, Jim!

Most advice about ham radio practice centers around the 'just spin the knob' paradigm. Or, basically ignore it.

The Internet allows us to do both, spin the knob when we don't like what is going on, and also voice our concerns to other hams off the air.

There is a problem with that. People get brave behind the keyboard and many of them simply toss etiquette out the window. We have to remember to remain as emotionally neutral as possible, but still keep the opinion intact.

Many times, it's not what people say, but how they say it.

----Break----

Here is some more info on the '52. First, you have to remember that I started looking for info on the '52 freq. to support a stance just like the one you have now. Well, as you see, I haven't had much luck. I just looked at a 1995 ARRL repeater directory. 144.200 is listed as the national calling frequency. 146.52 is listed simply as the "national simplex frequency". The word 'calling' is not present.

I don't know if the new versions are different. If they are, then the change occurred sometime after 1995. I found an old (2006) discussion on QRZ about it and from the banter there, the ARRL had already added the 'calling' thing at that point. It is currently listed on arrl.org as 'national simplex calling frequency'.

Now, I hate politics and I am not into ARRL bashing or anything of the like, so I tend to look at things mathematically.

The ARRL consists of a very small minority of licensed operators and the upper echelon of that organization has already admitted they exist for self-preservation (and I understand this) and not necessarily to represent the entire membership, nor hams in general. And realize, if they did not make self preservation a major concern, they would have been gone long ago. It is a strategy that simply has to be.

There are a large number of licensed, active hams that don't really agree with the ARRL and prefer to follow the FCC's rules instead. Who are we to say that they can't or that following the ARRL's rules is a requirement for 'good operating practice'?

Considering that the FCC indeed does require good operating practices (97.101), their opinion on the use of 146.52 must reflect that. So....here it is:

"NEWINGTON, CT, Oct 23, 2002--FCC Special Counsel for Enforcement Riley Hollingsworth has told five amateurs in Ohio and Michigan to disregard his earlier admonition to avoid lengthy QSOs on 146.52 MHz. Acknowledging that some confusion (sic!) exists within the amateur community as to whether 146.52 is a national calling channel or just another simplex frequency, Hollingsworth decided to simply rescind the five advisory notices he'd sent October 15.

"We made an error in issuing that Advisory Notice, and you may disregard it," Hollingsworth wrote today in letters sent to each of the affected amateurs. Commenting to ARRL, Hollingsworth was blunt yet good-natured. "I goofed," he said. "If I were worried about making a fool of myself from time to time, I never would have become a lawyer in the first place." "

I think this is a good place to pause. :)

Oh, my New Year's resolution is to get some antennas, especially my 2m/440 one outside. Then I could actually listen to 146.52 and see (hear) what I am missing.

Mark K8MHZ

Yes. No doubt no one is operating illegally...
just operating so as to defeat notion of a calling
frequency. The fact they call it such gives it
meaning. Otherwise it is just another simplex
channel.

Perhaps there are not enough hams willing
to stand by the practice to support and
maintain it. Like so many things in our
socio-political environment, few are willing
to stand up and speak out - they just go
with the flow, and while that is their choice,
it is not mine. Silly me... I speak my mind!
;-) The XYL thinks I will get shot for that
someday ... ;-)

GOOD QUESTIONS-- GOOD DISCUSSION HERE.

I APPEARS I MAY BE OUT-VOTED ON THE ISSUE... ;-)

HAPPY DAYS AND HAPPY HOLIDAY, MARK.

________________JHR___________________

#7029

From: Hank Greeb <n8xx@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 6:07 pm
Subject: There's something broke on the web site

n8xxham

I tried "responding to the herein quoted message on the web site, but, after writing my response, a message came back "cannot retried message 7028." So, I gave up.

The whole subject of "is 146.52 a calling frequency" and "if so, should casual conversations be allowed" is missing the point.

If memory serves correct, this concern was in existence back when I first arrove in the area back in late 2005. That's 7+ years ago. If a "concern" has not be addressed nor resolved within 7+ years, it must NOT be a concern, or else it's a symptom of lack of leadership amongst the ham radio community in this area.

A confidant told me that the current "offenders" who "monopolize 146.52 for hours on end" consists of 3 hams. I don't know if they're newcomers or if they're old f**ts. However, for much of the 61 years I've been in ham radio, the "newcomers" were "taken under the wing of the old f**rts" and "shown the ropes, the acceptable operating practices, and generally welcome them into the fraternity."

Why not welcome these three offenders, invite (or take, if they're incapable of driving) them to Schnitz South for a Friday conclave of the Lunche Bunche (and ACTUALLY talk with them, show interest in the newcomer, instead of ignoring them as is often the case.) Or, invite them to the ubiquitous "Open Radio Room" gatherings" (and ACTUALLY talk with them, show interest in the newcomer, instead of ignoring them as is often the case.) Or invite them to a club meeting? (but be sure there will be something other than the usual "club business drivel" which is the primary activity during many (most?) local club meetings in this area.)

Overwhelm them with kindness, show them what you consider "real ham radio", and tactfully (anyone know what 'tactfully' means?) explain the "raison d'etre" of a calling frequency. It may take a while, but it usually will sink in.

Now, I'll get off my soapbox and wish everyone a Happy New Year!!!!!!!

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time

--- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <k8mhz@...> wrote:

Happy New Year, Jim!

Most advice about ham radio practice centers around the 'just spin the knob' paradigm. Or, basically ignore it.

The Internet allows us to do both, spin the knob when we don't like what is going on, and also voice our concerns to other hams off the air.

There is a problem with that. People get brave behind the keyboard and many of them simply toss etiquette out the window. We have to remember to remain as emotionally neutral as possible, but still keep the opinion intact.

Many times, it's not what people say, but how they say it.

<snip>

#7030

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 6:36 pm
Subject: test

k8mhz

test...

2 attempts to reply to Hank crashed my Outlook.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)

#7031

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 6:38 pm
Subject: RE: There's something broke on the web site

k8mhz

test2

-----Original Message-----
From: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Hank Greeb
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:08 PM
To: West Michigan Hams Reflector
Subject: [WestMichiganHams] There's something broke on the web site

I tried "responding to the herein quoted message on the web site, but, after writing my response, a message came back "cannot retried message 7028." So, I gave up.

The whole subject of "is 146.52 a calling frequency" and "if so, should casual conversations be allowed" is missing the point.

If memory serves correct, this concern was in existence back when I first arrove in the area back in late 2005. That's 7+ years ago. If a "concern" has not be addressed nor resolved within 7+ years, it must NOT be a concern, or else it's a symptom of lack of leadership amongst the ham radio community in this area.

A confidant told me that the current "offenders" who "monopolize 146.52 for hours on end" consists of 3 hams. I don't know if they're newcomers or if they're old f**ts. However, for much of the 61 years I've been in ham radio, the "newcomers" were "taken under the wing of the old f**rts" and "shown the ropes, the acceptable operating practices, and generally welcome them into the fraternity."

Why not welcome these three offenders, invite (or take, if they're incapable of driving) them to Schnitz South for a Friday conclave of the Lunche Bunche (and ACTUALLY talk with them, show interest in the newcomer, instead of ignoring them as is often the case.) Or, invite them to the ubiquitous "Open Radio Room" gatherings" (and ACTUALLY talk with them, show interest in the newcomer, instead of ignoring them as is often the case.) Or invite them to a club meeting? (but be sure there will be something other than the usual "club business drivel" which is the primary activity during many (most?) local club meetings in this area.)

Overwhelm them with kindness, show them what you consider "real ham radio", and tactfully (anyone know what 'tactfully' means?) explain the "raison d'etre" of a calling frequency. It may take a while, but it usually will sink in.

Now, I'll get off my soapbox and wish everyone a Happy New Year!!!!!!!

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time

--- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <k8mhz@...> wrote:

Happy New Year, Jim!

Most advice about ham radio practice centers around the 'just spin the knob' paradigm. Or, basically ignore it.

The Internet allows us to do both, spin the knob when we don't like what is going on, and also voice our concerns to other hams off the air.

There is a problem with that. People get brave behind the keyboard and many of them simply toss etiquette out the window. We have to remember to remain as emotionally neutral as possible, but still keep the opinion intact.

Many times, it's not what people say, but how they say it.

<snip>

#7032

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 6:40 pm
Subject: RE: There's something broke on the web site

k8mhz

Can you try again? I had problems responding to you. I didn't see any bounce messages on the board.

Mark

I tried "responding to the herein quoted message on the web site, but, after writing my response, a message came back "cannot retried message 7028." So, I gave up.

#7033

From: "n8xxham" <n8xx@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: test message

n8xxham

here 'tis - my repl;y.
--- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" wrote:
>
>
> Can you try again? I had problems responding to you. I didn't see any
> bounce messages on the board.
>
> Mark
>
> I tried "responding to the herein quoted message on the web site, but,
> after writing my response, a message came back "cannot retried message
> 7028." So, I gave up.
>

#7034

From: "n8xxham" <n8xx@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 9:22 pm
Subject: Re: test message

n8xxham

Well, now it worketh. Probably just a glitch by yahoo groups. similar things have happened int he past.

computers, like people, ain't purr-feckt, or sew it seams.

Happy New Year.

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time
--- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, "n8xxham" wrote:
>
> here 'tis - my repl;y.
> <snip>

#7035

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 9:49 pm
Subject: RE: Re: test message

k8mhz

Great!

Happy New Year to you and all!

K8MHZ

PS ''or sew it seams' had me in stitches.

-----Original Message-----
From: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of n8xxham
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:23 PM
To: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: test message

Well, now it worketh. Probably just a glitch by yahoo groups. similar things have happened int he past.

computers, like people, ain't purr-feckt, or sew it seams.

Happy New Year.

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time
--- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, "n8xxham" wrote:
>
> here 'tis - my repl;y.
> <snip>

#7036

From: Richards <jruing@...>
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 11:12 pm
Subject: Re: Reminder: Armageddon Net Exercise Dec. 29th (Saturday) 10:00 am.

jruingggg

Good Post, Mark -- a lot of buckshot in that one little shell!

Happy days.

-----------------------  JHR  ------------------------------------

#7037

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2013 12:02 am
Subject: RE: Reminder: Armageddon Net Exercise Dec. 29th (Saturday) 10:00 am.

k8mhz

Thanks Jim,

Really, not much, if any of the info is mine, personally. I found it on the 'Net and just passed it on in somewhat of a condensed version.

Mark K8MHZ

-----Original Message-----
From: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Richards
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 6:12 PM
To: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] Reminder: Armageddon Net Exercise Dec. 29th (Saturday) 10:00 am.

Good Post, Mark -- a lot of buckshot in that one little shell!

Happy days.

----------------------- JHR ------------------------------------

#7038

From: "NA8M" <bill_fries@...>
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2013 12:41 pm
Subject: Lloyd, K8PIX, sk

bill_fries_jr

All:

With heavy heart I report the depressing news of Pix's demise.  Here is the
abbreviated obit:

Mr. Lloyd R. Pixley, age 77, died Friday, December 28, 2012 at home. Services
will be announced. Arrangements by: The Sytsema Chapel Sytsema Funeral Homes,
Inc. 737 Apple Avenue 231-726-5210


I do not have any information regarding arrangements.

73 OM we will miss you immensely.

Bill, NA8M
Pres. MAARC

#7039

From: Hank Greeb <n8xx@...>
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2013 2:27 pm
Subject: Hamfests, Hamfest, & More Hamfests

n8xxham

Hamfests, hamfests, hamfests are starting, even here in Michigan in January

01/20/2013 | Hazel Park ARC's 47th Annual Hamfest
Hazel Park High School - 23400 Hughes - Hazel Park, Michigan 48030
Sponsored by Hazel Park Amateur Radio Club
Website: http://www.hparc.org
Flyer at http://hparc.org/wp-content/Swap/Flyer_2013.pdf

and, in February:

02/02/2013 | HARA Swap and Shop
Location: VFW Post 1079 42 Highway M-35 Negaunee, MI 49866
Sponsored by Hiawatha Amateur Radio Association
Learn More at http://www.arrl.org/hamfests/hara-swap-and-shop-2


02/17/2013 | Livonia ARC's 42nd Annual Swap & Shop
Location: Livonia Civic Park Seniors Center 15218 Farmington Road
Livonia, MI 48150
Sponsored by Livonia Amateur Radio Club
Website (under construction): http://www.livoniaarc.com/swap.htm
Learn More at
http://www.arrl.org/hamfests/livonia-arc-s-42nd-annual-swap-shop

#7040

From: "Tom KD8DEG" <kd8deg@...>
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2013 10:44 pm
Subject: Intrado Plans Backup 9-1-1 System Using HF Communications (12/19/12)

tom_kd8deg

http://mccmag.com/newsArticle.cfm?news_id=9046

#7041

From: K8TB <k8tb@...>
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2013 2:22 am
Subject: Holland ARC Holiday Dinner, Monday, Jan 21, 2013

k8tb_en72

Yes, we're celebrating the holidays in January...celebrating the fact that we made it through another hectic holiday season and we can now take time to spend a relaxing evening with our radio friends.

Mark Monday night, January 21, 2013 at 6:00 PM on your new calendar. The Holland ARC will be holding our post holiday dinner at the "Grand King Buffet". The restaurant is located at 661 East 24th Street in Holland, between US 31 and Waverly Rd. You don't need to be a devotee of Chinese food to enjoy the buffet - they have a wide selection of Japanese, Mexican, and American cuisine, including a hibachi grill where your food will be custom cooked right in front of you.

The cost is $12.00 cash per person for the all-you-can-eat buffet, dessert, non-alcoholic drinks and gratuity. The club will be presented with one bill from the restaurant, so we will collect the money from you at the door.

You do not have to be a member of the Holland ARC to attend - you don't even have to have your ham license. Friends and family of the club are all welcome.

The club has been asked to provide a reasonable head count in advance,
so please RSVP as soon as possible to:

secretary@...

We look forward to seeing you there!

Tom Bosscher K8TB Holland ARC Secretary

#7042

From: "k8cop" <jimk8cop@...>
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:26 pm
Subject: Time to check your Amateur License Expiration Date?

k8cop

With the start of the new year it time to check the expiration on your Ham
License.  Also, update your mailing address if you have moved, and not changed
it with the FCC yet.

73's

Jim, K8COP

#7043

From: "NA8M" <bill_fries@...>
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 7:37 pm
Subject: Dick, W8KID, sk

bill_fries_jr

All:

I have just confirmed the death of Dick, W8KID.  Arrangements are still pending
and his obituary will be published this weekend.  A funeral service will be
Tuesday at eleven o'clock.  Unfortunately, I cannot confirm the location of the
service.  I will keep you all informed as the details are finalized.

Let us all keep Dick's family in our thoughts and prayers as they go through
this difficult time.

Bill, NA8M
Pres. MAARC

#7044

From: "NA8M" <bill_fries@...>
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 8:52 pm
Subject: Re: Dick, W8KID, sk

bill_fries_jr

Details can be found if you follow this link:

http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Richard-Hathaw\
ay&lc=4030&pid=162131377&mid=5367748&locale=en-US


It is a sad day for our hobby.  We pray for Patricia and her family.  Peace be
with you.

Bill, NA8M

#7045

From: Hank Greeb <n8xx@...>
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Time to Check your License Expiration Date

n8xxham

Or, join the ARRL, advise them of the expiration date. HQ will inform you of the impending demise of your operating privileges, and even file with the Friendly Candy Company for you. If you move, HQ will take care of this kind of paper work for you also, for no cost.

Yep, you CAN do all this yourself, and it's easy, but all too many folks let things like this slip through the cracks.

Now, Lettuce hear from the ubiquitous naysayers who infest this newsgroup, frequently making negative comments about the League.

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time
Charter Life Member, American Radio Relay League, Inc.

On 1/5/2013 1:54 PM, WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com wrote:

1. Time to check your Amateur License Expiration Date?
Posted by: "k8cop" jimk8cop@... k8cop
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 9:27 am ((PST))
With the start of the new year it time to check the expiration on your Ham License. Also, update your mailing address if you have moved, and not changed it with the FCC yet. 73's
Jim, K8COP

#7046

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2013 3:43 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Time to Check your License Expiration Date

k8mhz

Last I knew, the ARRL sent reminders to all hams.

My last renewal was in 2004 and I think I got a reminder from the ARRL along with a request to join them.

Do they still do this?

Mark K8MHZ

-----Original Message-----
From: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Hank Greeb
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 5:42 PM
To: westmichiganhams@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: Time to Check your License Expiration Date
Or, join the ARRL, advise them of the expiration date. HQ will inform you of the impending demise of your operating privileges, and even file with the Friendly Candy Company for you. If you move, HQ will take care of this kind of paper work for you also, for no cost.

Yep, you CAN do all this yourself, and it's easy, but all too many folks let things like this slip through the cracks.

Now, Lettuce hear from the ubiquitous naysayers who infest this newsgroup, frequently making negative comments about the League.

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time
Charter Life Member, American Radio Relay League, Inc.

On 1/5/2013 1:54 PM, WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com wrote:
1. Time to check your Amateur License Expiration Date?
Posted by: "k8cop" jimk8cop@... k8cop
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 9:27 am ((PST))
With the start of the new year it time to check the expiration on your Ham License. Also, update your mailing address if you have moved, and not changed it with the FCC yet. 73's
Jim, K8COP

#7047

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2013 8:46 pm
Subject: FW: [W8ZHO] Last Call Ceremony

k8mhz

-----Original Message-----
From: W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom Porritt
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 3:40 PM
To: W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com; MCARESGroup
Subject: [W8ZHO] Last Call Ceremony

All,
I am planning a "Last Call" ceremony for K8PIX and W8KID on the net tonight. Please notify others who might be interested.
Tom

#7048

From: "Mark" <k8mhz@...>
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2013 9:48 pm
Subject: FW: [W8ZHO] Re: Last Call Ceremony

k8mhz

Subject: [W8ZHO] Re: Last Call Ceremony

I expect it to be at eight o'clock local time. On the ARES repeater, 146.82.

--- In W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Could you post the time? And which repeater it's going to be on?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark K8MHZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom
> Porritt
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 3:40 PM
> To: W8ZHO@yahoogroups.com; MCARESGroup
> Subject: [W8ZHO] Last Call Ceremony
>
>
>
> All,
> I am planning a "Last Call" ceremony for K8PIX and W8KID on the net
> tonight. Please notify others who might be interested.
> Tom
>

#7049

From: K8TB <k8tb@...>
Date: Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:53 am
Subject: Ottawa County CERT Training Classes

k8tb_en72

http://www.ottawaskywarn.org/uploads/CERT2013.pdf

From :
Sindee Maxwell
OC CERT Coordinator

COMMUNITY EMERGENCY RESPONSE TEAM (CERT) TRAINING FOR OTTAWA COUNTY RESIDENTS.

CERT is one of the five Citizen’s Corps programs under the USA Freedom Corps. CERT teams in Ottawa County are organized thru the Ottawa County Emergency Management Office. The 2012 CERT training is free to all Ottawa County residents. Training participants are not required to be a CERT Team member; however, information will be available at the training to learn more about how to apply for the CERT team following the training.

The CERT Training Consists of 8 Topics:

1. Disaster Preparedness
2. Fire Safety
3. Disaster Medical Operations
4. Light Search and Rescue
5. CERT Organization
6. Disaster Psychology
7. Terrorism and CERT
8. Disaster Simulation

WHEN:

There will be two classes:

    Daytime Classes:
    Monday and Wednesday mornings from 9:00 AM to Noon
    February 11, 2013 through February 27, 2013
    Participants must attend all classes to receive their certificate of completion.

These daytime classes will be held at the Grand Haven Public Safety Department,
525 Washington Ave., Grand Haven, MI 49417

For more information on the daytime classes contact:

    Sgt. Glenn Bo or Sindee Maxwell
    E-mail: boglenn@... or smaxwell26@...
    (616)842-3460 ext 1135
    Grand Haven Public Safety by January 21, 2013

    Nighttime Classes:
    Wednesday evenings from 6:00PM to 9:00 PM
    February 6, 2013 through March 27, 2013
    Participants must attend all classes to receive their certificate of completion.

    These evening classes will be at the the Ottawa County Fillmore Complex,
    Administrative Building
    12220 Fillmore St
    West Olive, MI. 49460

    For more information on the evening classes contact
    Sgt. Glenn Bo Department of Public Safety
    616-842-3460 boglenn@...,
    by January 21, 2013

A complete PDF brochure is online at:

#7050

From: K8TB <k8tb@...>
Date: Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:02 am
Subject: TWO WEEK REMINDER: Holland ARC Holiday Dinner, Monday, Jan 21, 2013

k8tb_en72

(There will be a regular membership meeting at the Red Cross next week Monday, Jan 14 at 7 PM)

Reminder in two weeks:

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#7051

From: "Tom KD8DEG" <kd8deg@...>
Date: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: Counterfeit Icom Products - ALERT

tom_kd8deg

http://www.icom.co.jp/world/notice/070308/
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/notice/alert_trademark/
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/notice/pdf/V8.pdf
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/notice/pdf/F21.pdf
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/notice/pdf/2720H.pdf

http://www.southgatearc.org/news/january2013/counterfeit_icom_products.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AmateurRadioNews+%28Southgate+Amateur+Radio+News%29#.UOw7WGt5mSO

Please review the links below if you plan to purchase Icom products in the future.

#7052

From: W8SWX <w8swx@...>
Date: Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:49 am
Subject: Muskegon County Spring SKYWARN 2013

vinnierock79

Good evening.

Attached, you will find the details of the 2013 Muskegon County SKYWARN training.

In the past few years we have seen a decrease in media coverage and attendance. We could really use your support this year. This is a great program that people look forward to attending every year, and we could use your help in getting the word out to as many people as possible.

Not only is SKYWARN an important program for individuals, it's important to the community as well.

Thank you in advance!

Jeff Stapel
W8SWX
Muskegon County Skywarn Coordinator

1 of 1 File(s)

SkywarnFlyer2013.pdf

#7053

From: "kc9bqa" <sprinkies@...>
Date: Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:55 pm
Subject: ARRL Has Opened VHF Contesting up for You

kc9bqa

Hello and Happy New Year,

    Todd KC9BQA here.  Still promoting the SSB/CW side of VHF/UHF after 5+ years.
All is well and hope it's going fine with you, too.

    By now, I trust that those who are truly VHF-curious keep up via my blog.  I
update kc9bqa.com at least once/twice a week.  All of you are welcome to visit.

    But with the exciting new changes to VHF/UHF Contesting, I had to stop by and
let everyone in this group know what's going on.  Those of you who have 100/50w
rigs with all-mode capability on 6 meters, 2 meters and 70cm, you now have your
own division.  Those of you who are FM-only, yep, you now have your own
division.

    Hams who have no idea what a V/U contest is all about will want to know about
these changes.  I hope you will share this info with your ham clubs and buddies.

     To keep this email short, I will refer you to posts at kc9bqa.com dated Jan
3rd and Jan 4th.  The details are there.  With the ARRL Jan VHF Contest
happening on Jan 19-20th, the word needs to go out *now*.
    Use the Jan 3-4th posts at kc9bqa.com.   The link to my series of articles
called "VHF Contesting School" are also there.
    You are free to take the info at kc9bqa.com and share it with your ham clubs
and buddies.  Or shape it as you see fit.  Main point is to get the word out.

     73,
     Todd   KC9BQA    EN63ao  40 N of Milwaukee
     www.kc9bqa.com  For Frequent VHF/UHF Updates
     www.wivuch.com  WI VHF/UHF County Hunters Award

#7054

From: Hank Greeb <n8xx@...>
Date: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:55 pm
Subject: North American QSO Party, CW Saturday, January 12

n8xxham

It's that time of the year, North American QSO party CW version is this Saturday, starting at 1800Z (1 p.m Eastern) and ending at 0600Z Sunday (1 a.m. Eastern)

The rules for this NAQP are at http://ncjweb.com/naqprules.pdf

Note that power is limited to 100 watts out, so folks who run QRP aren't at quite a large a power disadvantage as with many contests.

Sidebar/solicitation: I'm rounding up ~~suckers.... errr,~~ volunteers to operate QRP during this Saturday contest. Any QRPer's out there? So far we have 16 ~~suckers... errr~~ volunteers, and can use as many who are willing. Please let me know your availability. The only requirement is to operate with 5 watts or less. Part time, full time, beginning with CW, fluent with CW, no matter. We've had team members who made 3 Q's, others who have made >250 Q's. We've all had fun!

And, if CW isn't your thing,

SSB: is 1800 UTC January 19 to 0559 UTC January 20, 2013
RTTY: is 1800 UTC February 23 to 0559 UTC February 24, 2013

Mark your calendars for any and all of the above NAQP's.

72/73 de n8xx Hg
QRP >99.44% of the time