From: Donald DuCote <htftoys@...>
"books on audio tape" "Waterloo; Day of Battle"
by David Howarth. ...
4 cassettes worth from Recorded Books of
Prince Frederick, MD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to Amazon.com "out of print"

From: JGIL1812@...
>>The Crossing will
>>show on Jan.10 on A&E.
>>God... are we behind the times or what....!!!!
>>... watched the "How I was made" feature
>>>this past week, ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently only on American TV,
not available on Canadian TV yet

Dear List: Although not our time period,
I find this poem, who some may have rec'd
a dozen times quite moving, enjoy ......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



      TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,
      HE LIVED ALL ALONE,
      IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE
      MADE OF PLASTER AND STONE.

      I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY
      WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,
      AND TO SEE JUST WHO
      IN THIS HOME DID LIVE.

      I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
      A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
      NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
      NOT EVEN A TREE.

      NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
      JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
      ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
      OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.

      WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
      AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
      A SOBER THOUGHT
      CAME THROUGH MY MIND.

      FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
      IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
      I FOUND THE HOME OF A MARINE,
      ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.

      THE MARINE LAY SLEEPING,
      SILENT, ALONE,
      CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
      IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.

      THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
      THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
      NOT HOW I PICTURED
      A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.

      WAS THIS THE HERO
      OF WHOM I'D JUST READ?
      CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,
      THE FLOOR FOR A BED?

      I REALIZED THE FAMILIES
      THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,
      OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE MARINES
      WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT.

      SOON ROUND THE WORLD,
      THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,
      AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE
      A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY.

      THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM
      EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,
      BECAUSE OF MARINES,
      LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE.

      I COULDN'T HELP WONDER
      HOW MANY LAY ALONE,
      ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE
      IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME.

      THE VERY THOUGHT
      BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,
      I DROPPED TO MY KNEES
      AND STARTED TO CRY.

      THE SOLDIER AWAKENED
      AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,
      "SANTA DON'T CRY,
      THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE;

      I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
      I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,
      MY LIFE IS MY GOD,
      MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS."

      THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER
      AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,
      I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,
      I CONTINUED TO WEEP.

      I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,
      SO SILENT AND STILL
      AND WE BOTH SHIVERED
      FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL.

      I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE
      ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,
      THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR
      SO WILLING TO FIGHT.

      THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,
      WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,
      WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,
      IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE."

      ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,
      AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT.
      "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,
      AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT."


      Written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa, Japan.

In a message dated 01/12/1999 4:26:10 AM, lalozon@... writes:

>From: Donald DuCote <htftoys@...>
>"books on audio tape" "Waterloo; Day of Battle"
>by David Howarth. ...
>4 cassettes worth from Recorded Books of
>Prince Frederick, MD.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>According to Amazon.com "out of print"


No doubt -- but I have a set!!!!
ahahahahahaa!!!

In a message dated 12/1/1999 8:24:42 AM Central Standard Time,
NINETY3RD@... writes:

<< From: Donald DuCote <htftoys@...>
  >"books on audio tape" "Waterloo; Day of Battle"
  >by David Howarth. ...
  >4 cassettes worth from Recorded Books of
  >Prince Frederick, MD.
  >

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ---
  >According to Amazon.com "out of print"


  No doubt -- but I have a set!!!!
  ahahahahahaa!!! >>

Funnily enough 'A Near Run Thing' (which was the original title of this book
when first published in England) was the first serious book on the Napoleonic
wars I ever bought, I still have it.

Cheers

Tim

From: Jim Yaworsky <yawors1@...>
I wonder if anyone has heard of whether any
systematic investigations have been made of
places such as the ford on the Thames ...
..............................................................
from: The Chatham Daily Planet Newspaper

"The boat had been sunk ( by General Proctor during his retreat ) in twelve feet
of water, just above the present Canadian Pacific Railroad bridge, and as the
years went by, the sand covered over her and her location was soon forgotten.
The building of the railway bridge, however, threw the current against the bank
and recently the sand and mud was cleared away. In the summer of 1900, two log
fishers prodded upon her and reported their find to Mr. E.B. Jones,
Superintendent of the Water Works."

     Apparently, when Mr. Jones had been informed of the discovery of the sunken
ship, he believed it to be, from certain evidence on hand, one which had been
engaged in the War of 1812, and so he proclaimed to the public.

     His proclamation was disputed by the Kent Historical Society which counter
claimed that the relics were those of a barge belonging to the Eberts Brothers
and which had sunk in the area some time around 1860.

     .......... searches of the wreckage revealed evidence to support Jones'
contention. When it was revealed that cannon balls had been discovered among the
ship's debris ...... the general public accepted, as fact, that the submerged
boat was indeed the General Myers.

     ... March 23, 1901, a committee was formed, whose mission it would be to
raise the former gunboat ..... salvaging a number of valuable momentous
including seven six-pound cannon balls, two twenty-four pounders and a quantity
of grape shot. Contrary to some historical accounts, which had credited the
General Myers with being a two masted vessel, it now became apparent that she
had been a single master and sloop-rigged ... it had become obvious that the
ship had not only been burned as a result of an explosion but also that she had
been scuttled, as evidenced by the several bored holes found in her hull.

     At this point, June 10, 1901, the boat was towed down the Thames River and
hauled up onto Tecumseh Park where it was  blasphemously suggested that she
should be used for pen holders, canes and furniture, unfortunately the
irreverent idea took hold. She was dismembered and disposed of in the form of
nick-nacks.

     If she had been able to sleep a little longer and brought to light in a more
informed age, she would may have been enshrined and be on display in the park as
a similar war ship is displayed at Wasaga Beach, "The Nancy".

Taken from: "Rails to the Heartland" a pictorial history of Kent's railways
written by John Rhodes. April 1991.
..........................................................................
     This is the only known "Official" investigation of river treasures in
the Chatham, Ontario area that have been recorded. A re-enactor
living one farm away from the actual Battle of the Thames Battle Field says that
for over twenty five years he can remember finding gun parts, arrowheads, etc on
the battlefield and in the river near the site.

Larry

I picked this first edition up at an antique mall for a couple of bucks. I
don't know if it is still in print but you could probably find one in a
library or through a used book dealer or even Ebay. Entitled: THE DARKEST
DAY: 1814, THE WASHINGTON-BALTIMORE CAMPAIGN by Charles G. Muller,
published by J.B. Lippincott Company, Philadelphia & New York 1963.
This is a great book. It covers the campaigns in the Chesepeake from
Cockburns marauding in 1813 right through the 1814 invasion, the debacle at
Bladensburg, the torching of Washington, and the actions at Baltimore.
Admitadly the first part of the book gave me a few yawns but once Ross &
Cockburn land at Benedict... well hold on to your specs because truth is
better than prose and this author sprinkles his prose with healthy doses of
first hand accounts, not just the oft quoted Gleig, but numerous other
sources. I liked the details in this book. It tells who did what when on
both sides of the lines not just at the  higher levels but what things were
like for the ordinary soldiers on both sides. The order of march, camping
arrangements, what they ate, how they cooked, what was in the pack, the
heat, the rain, the mud etc. (By the way those of you taking up Robert
Henderson's War of 1812 test can find the name of that frog unit that was
helping to chastize the Americans on page 32).
One thing I didn't like was a lack of footnotes. The author does provide a
very extensive and impressive bibliography and notes for the chapters which
for the most part are just a list of the sources he used for each chapter.
When he quotes a someone it is possible therefore to trace the quote to his
source, but statments of "fact" are not tied to specific sources which is a
real bummer. All in all a good read for one of those 60's history books and
I recommend it to you all.

Scott McDonald
Member/ 93rd Sutherland Highland Regiment of Foot L.H.U.
http://members.aol.com/ninety3rd
<mailto: raintree@...>

I think I remember some discussion about the name of the boat F. S. Key was
on when he was watching out for the flag over Ft. McHenry. Well, the book I
just read,(see review) "The Darkest Day: 1814" by Charles Muller page
199-200 has something on point:
"And because TONNANT, overcrowded with military personnel, had no space for
visitors, he [Adm. Cochrane] sent the three Americans [Dr. Beanes, Key and
Col. Skinner] on board the frigate SUPRISE, captained by Cochrane's son
Thomas. When on reaching Baltimore, TONNANT could not ascend the shallow
Patapsco River after Ross went ashore to his death on North Point, Cochrane
carried his flag over to SUPRISE in order to command the bombardment of
fort McHenry-and shifted the Americans back on board their own cartel
vessel, still under marine gaurd. Thus behind the advanced line of
bomb-ketches, Francis Scott Key and Dr. William Beans and Col. John Stuart
Skinner on 13 September watched the enemy attack Ft. McHenry."
The author's notes for this chapter elaborate: "In the Baltimore Sun of 5
January 1919 President James E. Hancock of the Society of the War of 1812
in Maryland, whose great-grandfather and grandfather saw the British fleet
in the Patapsco, puts Key, Beanes, and Skinner on an American navy dispatch
boat 'of the old pilot boat construction.' The story that Key saw the
waving Star Spangled Banner from Great Britian's MINDEN came into
exisitance, Mr. Hancock points out, fifty years after the defense of Ft.
McHenry. At the time of the bombardment, according to the Admiralty, MINDEN
sailed with the British East India squadron."
That clears that up!
Cheers
Scott

Scott McDonald
Member/ 93rd Sutherland Highland Regiment of Foot L.H.U.
http://members.aol.com/ninety3rd
<mailto: raintree@...>

Gerry,
     I believe that a book exists called "In the Service of the King."  It is a
list of the militia rosters from the 1812 period and is pretty comprehensive,
particularly for the Lower Canada area. While this will involve some hunting and
pecking through the units of assignment it might be your best place o start your
search.
     Lt. Paul W. Schulz
   Snelling's Co., 4th USI

From: Michael Mathews

     " As for mud, wear it with pride!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     when they returned
     home from Waterloo '95, scraped the mud off their
     clothing and put it in a bottle and labelled it,
     Waterloo '95.
     Their memento from the ' Field of Glory'

     My trousers,even after washing, still have a little bit o' Belgium in them!
I do wear them with pride.

     Craig

Tim, Sorry for my long silence, my e-mail server has been f#*$ed up and I'm
only now digging out from under. In answer to your query, I'm afraid that it
does seem curiously like "ancient histoire" but on the basis that you are
serious I will say this . Regardless of the dress of the site
representative, the re-enactor must adhere to the rules, so that if a safety
issue was in need of imminent discussion the site rep. doesn't have to go
and change his /her clothes to put something straight. There is inherent
danger in  making the communication between site and re-enactor adhere to a
"role playing"  relationship. If a site supervisor is a woman who is of the
opinion that women should represent women and  does so herself,( to add to
the visual mozaic of the event), what impression would she have to be doing
to be heeded by say a Major General?

Standing by Sir,,

Craig
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 12/2/1999 3:04:27 PM Central Standard Time,
sgtwarnr@... writes:

Craig,
Yes indeed it is a serious inquiry. I have always believed that it is by
examining the past that we learn. As I said in initially trying to maintain
first person I allowed my buttons to be pushed and am thoroughly ashamed of
exploding in the way I did. It is something that I think should be avoided at
all cost and in this vein I will answer the very logical points that you put.

<< Regardless of the dress of the site
  representative, the re-enactor must adhere to the rules, so that if a safety
  issue was in need of imminent discussion the site rep. doesn't have to go
  and change his/her clothes to put something straight.>>

Agreed, and for this reason the rules should be spelled out clearly to all
who have command positions. One cannot assume that all the rules will be
naturally known, however I think it is a good idea to have the controlling
site person in modern clothes so that they can interact without looking
anachronistic. They could also use the correct uniform and take command,
however if command is delegated it should only be delegated to a person
trusted by the site, and that person must be fully briefed.


<< There is inherent
  danger in  making the communication between site and re-enactor adhere to a
  "role playing"  relationship. If a site supervisor is a woman who is of the
  opinion that women should represent women and  does so herself,( to add to
  the visual mozaic of the event), what impression would she have to be doing
  to be heeded by say a Major General? >>

I think here it is a matter of degrees. The person appointed to command is
(or should be made aware of) who is in charge and that person should have the
trust to be able to communicate in a period way. In the example you give
above the female in charge cold drop a curtsy, say "If you will pardon me
sir, it is of great importance that I speak to you in private." This would
give the CO the opportunity of speaking quietly and being privately informed
of the problem so that he can correct it. If he stupidly ignores her it could
escalate but if the CO has been chosen by the site I cannot see him doing
this.

If on the other hand the female stalks across the paradeground screaming at
the top of her voice at the supposed commander of the fort "WHAT THE HELL DO
YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING?!!" Especially if he does not know that anything
wrong has happened, what is he to do?

Which is worse? To allow himself to be berated by someone the public can see
is clearly his social inferior?
To shout back and say something like "HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO ME IN THAT
MANNER? I WILL SEE YOU IN MY OFFICE THIS MINUET!" (thus giving an opportunity
for the two to discuss the problem in private)

I am of the opinion that this is a problem that should never happen but if it
does I think that some sort of universally accepted guidelines would be an
advantage.

Cheers

Tim

Re: an "E" from: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
If a site supervisor is a woman who is of the opinion that
women should represent women and  does so herself,
( to add to the visual mozaic of the event), what
impression would she have to be doing to be heeded
by say a Major General?
...................................................

This subject was brought up at a meeting
at an historical site where a lady is in fact
the Supervisor of the site.

It was recommended that the lady do the
oppression of the commanding officer's
wife. And, wear a spencer made of red
superfine and having the facings and
buttons of the Regiment.

In this capacity she would be respected as
the Commander's wife and would show
some military authority as well.

Larry

In a message dated 12/2/99 1:05:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sgtwarnr@... writes:

<<  My trousers,even after washing, still have a little bit o' Belgium in
them! I do wear them with pride.

      Craig >>

Huzzah!... This is exactly why I am planning to return to Waterloo next year.
'95 was an unbelievable experience that is etched in my mind. Every time I
read a book on the subject, watch the film or view a TV documentary the
feelings come back.

JG/RE

Not our time period, but we do have 41ster's !
............................................................................


The Zulus are coming...........     they are here!!


So was the cry from the small garrison at Rorke's Drift, Natal on 22 January
1879, when 120 men stood against a force of 4,000 well disciplined Zulu
warriors.  There was no option for the men of B Company, 2nd/24th Regiment
but to stand and fight.  For twelve hours the red-coated soldiers held out
against the superior force.  Eleven Victoria Crosses were hard-won that day.

The successors to those gallant red-coated soldiers - The Royal Regiment of
Wales (24th/41st Foot) - will launch its new look updated website on November
30th.  The site offers a wealth of information about this famous regiment,
its two museums, and will appeal to fans, researchers and newcomers of all
ages.

The site is very easy to navigate and provides a fullest account of the
Regiment available on-line.  It gives a detail and fascinating history of 300
years of service plus unique links which offer advice on finding a former
comrade or family relative who served with the Regiment.

Access the site at http://rrw.org.uk and join the Zulu Club, a society for
enthusiasts and supporters which provides regular on-line newsletters and
information on the many exciting periods in the Regiment's long history.  The
website has been developed by the staff at the Regiment's two museums with
design and technical help from BBC Resources in Cardiff.

For further information contact: Martin Everett, Curator, South Wales
Borderers Museum The Barracks, Brecon, Powys LD3 7EB
Tel:    01874 613310 Fax: 01874 613275
  e-mail: martin.everett@...


Jim Yaworsky, Moderator of the 1812 Onelist is the
President of the 41st Regiment of Foot Military Living
History Group. The 41st Regiment  was one of the
Regiments amalgamated to make the Royal
Regiment of Wales and  is of interst to the 1812's.

Larry, my thanks for the site. Zulu. I found one of Bill's ancestors
in the archives in Dawson when I was there. Won't be surprised to see
a Doig fought at Rorke's Drift. Not this period, but in spirit........

Max
Maxine Trottier
maxitrot@...
http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm

Two queries, as the subject indicates, for this august host:

1. Does anyone know where the Great Eastern will be held in 2000, and
with whom I would correspond regarding sutlers, registration, etc.?

2. Does anyone know where Gary and I might find information on Regency
parasols? We're looking pretty much for primary source documentation: what
they were made of, construction, textiles, types of wood, etc., etc., ad
nauseum.

	 Many thanks!

Lorina

--------------------------------------
  Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage & fine
hand-sewn, embroidered garments http://www.5rivers.org e-mail:
info@...

For your information

-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Ramsay <WARSMR@...>
To: Larry Lozon <lalozon@...>

Subject: Re: Stoney 2000


I have had the opportunity to attend a meeting this week regarding the ceremony
at Smith's Knoll which will take place on Sunday at 11 am on June 4.  Battle
Weekend will be held on Saturday June 3 and Sunday June 4.

The re-dedication and the re-internment of the bodies extracted from the burial
site will take place on the 4th. Yes, the Prime Minister and other dignitaries
have been invited but an official reply has not been received yet. The American
'soldiers" will be interned on Smith's Knoll.  They will not be moved to the
United States.   We will have representatives from the States but we are not
quite sure who it will be.  We are meeting with the Colonel in charge of the
local Legions in a couple of weeks to finalise the program.

I will be sending out a letter and registration form to the re-enactors in
December. So spread the word that "Stoney Creek" will be real special in 2000. 
We are hoping our American friends will plan on joining us for this very special
event.

I will keep you posted.

Susan Ramsay

Battle of Stoney Creek
June 3 - 4   2000
Stoney Creek Ontario
.................
Smith's Knoll is a mound across the street from the battlefield where they have
found American as well as Canadian/British soldiers buried from the War of 1812.
Some what like "Snake Hill".

"<snip> Funnily enough 'A Near Run Thing' (which was the original title of this
book
when first published in England) was the first serious book on the Napoleonic
wars I ever bought, I still have it. "

I would add that Howarth's book  "Trafalgar: The Nelson Touch" is also one of
the finest books written on that subject that I've ever come across...

Jim

Larry Lozon wrote:

It was recommended that the lady do the
oppression of the commanding officer's
wife.

Larry wrote:  It was recommended that the lady do the oppression of the
commanding officer's wife.

Rosemary wrote:  Larry, is this another emancipation organization that
should be formed, since I belong to so many others, would a monitary
donation suffice?  Those poor oppressed commanding officers...  or is it
their wives that are oppressed, or have they been impressed, or pressed...no
that's the navey.  I'm so confused.  I'd be pleased to contribute to a
worthy charity, do I get a tax reciept?

Rosemary
"Never put your wishbone daughter, where your backbone ought to be."

In a message dated 02/12/1999 3:26:29 PM, JGIL1812@... writes:

>n a message dated 12/2/99 1:05:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>sgtwarnr@... writes:
><<  My trousers,even after washing, still have a little bit o' Belgium
>in them! I do wear them with pride.
>     Craig >>
>
>Huzzah!... This is exactly why I am planning to return to Waterloo next
>year.
>'95 was an unbelievable experience that is etched in my mind. Every time
>I  read a book on the subject, watch the film or view a TV documentary the
>feelings come back.

Oh go on John.....tell them.....tell them what brigade you were with in '95
at Waterloo.....oh, go on...

;-)

B
93rd SHRoFLHU
THE Thin Red Line
http://hometown.aol.com/ninety3rd

In a message dated 02/12/1999 3:27:21 PM, lalozon@... writes:

>It was recommended that the lady do the
>
>oppression of the commanding officer's
>
>wife.

Was that a Freudian slip there Larry?
*O*-ppression.....?

;-)

B

Benton Jennings wrote:

Was that a Freudian slip there Larry?
*O*-ppression.....?

;-)

B

Andrew writes:

Is there an echo in this room?

In a message dated 03/12/1999 8:23:32 AM, abateman@... writes:

>From: "Bateman, Andrew" <abateman@...>
>
>
>
>Benton Jennings wrote:
>
>
>
>Was that a Freudian slip there Larry?
>
>*O*-ppression.....?
>
>
>
>;-)
>
>
>
>B
>
>
>
>Andrew writes:
>
>
>
>Is there an echo in this room?

Echo?

What Echo?

Echo?

What Echo?

B

>  A kilted Scotsman was walking down a country path after
>finishing off a considerable amount of whisky at a local pub.
>As he staggered down the road, he felt quite sleepy and
>decided to take a nap, with his back against a tree.
>
>  As he slept, two young lasses walked down the road and
>heard the Scotsman snoring loudly.  They saw him, and one
>said, "I've always wondered what a Scotsman wears under his
>kilt."
>
>  She boldly walked over to the sleeping man, raised his kilt,
>and saw what nature had provided him at his birth.
>
>  Her friend said, "Well, he has solved a great mystery for us,
>now!  He must be rewarded!" So, she took a blue ribbon from
>her hair, and gently tied it around what nature had provided the
>Scotsman, and the two walked away.
>
>  Some time later, the Scotsman was awakened by the call of
>nature, and walked around to the other side of the tree to relieve
>himself.  He raised his kilt...and saw where the blue ribbon was
>tied.  After several moments of bewilderment, the Scotsman
>said... "I donna know where y'been lad...but it's nice ta'know
>y'won first prize!"

->Oh go on John.....tell them.....tell them what brigade you were with in
'95
>at Waterloo.....oh, go on...
>
Yes Benton, everyone likes you best, but thats only because we all know
what's under that skirt of yours!

Kisskiss  ,  Craig
>http://hometown.aol.com/ninety3rd
>
>>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
square miles...

In a message dated 03/12/1999 8:50:55 AM, sgtwarnr@... writes:

>Yes Benton, everyone likes you best, but thats only because we all know
>what's under that skirt of yours!
>Kisskiss  ,  Craig

You always kiss and tell!!

--
>>
>>
>>Was that a Freudian slip there Larry?
>>
>>*O*-ppression.....?
>>
>>How many Freudian phyciatrists does it take to change a lightbulb.........





Two.



Me and one to hold my penis..MY MOTHER!...MY LADDER!!!
>>
>>Oh grin..Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Benton
>
>You always kiss and tell!!  They may think you're the best but YOU know I'm
the best!
>Smoochees, C
>>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
square miles...