Calling all unschoolers in the San Francisco Bay Area
and beyond!  The SF Bay Unschooling Network (SFBUN)
recently held its first gathering.  Unschoolers, those
interested in unschooling, and those who like to hang
out with unschoolers are invited to join us.  We've
just launched a new Yahoo group to share ideas and
plan future gatherings and events.  To subscribe to
SFBUN's Yahoo group, please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFBUN/.  For more info,
please contact Robyn Talman at ratalman@... or
Pam Tellew at pamtellew@....  Please forward this
information to others who might be interested.
Thanks!

** Well, not necessarily put it on hold.  But I'm just okay taking
longer to read a novel now than I was when I first discovered them.
I'm the type that doesn't want to put a book down once I get started.
<grin>**

Stephen King is especially addictive, with the suspense and intense
sense of doom and plot momentum.  Jane Austen would be easier to put
down. <g>

Betsy

** Punishment and coercion would be saying "You apologize right now. You
sit and listen to me rant at you for what you did to me" That's not
what happens. These are calm conversations with lots of support for
both parties. These discussions take time and gentleness. We offer both.

If a child is too angry to sit down, he stands. If there is a need for
a few moments to regroup emotionally, of course we give it.**

(I've been away, so I'm coming back to this kind of late.)

Julie, I think the reason your first post set off people's coercion
alarms is that (as I recall) you started your description of the process
by saying "we sit them down on the couch...".  Because this sentence
structure has the parent as the subject and the child as the object
(being set down or made to sit down) that could be why some people
pictured bossy parenting in their minds.  Thanks for giving the longer
explanation.  It's really hard for some of us highly emotional people to
imagine a face-to-face on the couch process like this working without
time for everyone to calm down first.  Not being able to leave the scene
has the potential to make some people feel trapped and controlled.

Betsy

Hello!
     I have a son named Jon that is 15 that would be interested in playing
online games. Right now he has been playing with his new Xbox Live. He also
sometimes plays Yu-Gi-Oh online. What games do your sons play? (I tried to
email using the addy in the post, but I received a 501 error and it was
never sent.


                 Thanks,

                Sue in Michigan



-------Original Message-------

From: my3sonsinva
Date: 07/31/05 20:13:13
To: UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Counterstrike for homeschoolers

Would anyone here like to play online with other homeschoolers?  I
know when school starts there isn't many players online during the
day.  Email us at my3sonsinva@....  Oh, my teen can teach you
how to make your own unique spray.

Blessings,
Barb in VA





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Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling
info>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

We are life long homeschoolers(10 official years) and on our 2nd year as
unschoolers.

My ds is 14 and wondering about writing a transcript.

for instance:

He does not care one bit to take Biology,  Cnidarians do not interest him in the
least and we were wondering how do we count a Biology credit on someone who will
never study it. (Other that a litter of puppies over the summer) He is very
automotive minded right now(since he was 8) and there is just no way I can count
that as a mollusk.

All the cover schools in Alabama require it for graduation.

There are other subjects with the same issues. I just used Biology as an
example.



Do I skip the ones he refuses and go on? Do I find pond water and suggest he
look at while sitting in a car?

How do you guys count credits, if you count them at all?

Dena in Alabama





---------------------------------
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  Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My 14yo son plays poker at the yahoo games section. He is also big into aols IM.
He likes to chat while he plays.
He would love the company of other unschoolers.
Dena Anderson
Alabama

"S. Kuntze" <skuntze@...> wrote:

Hello!
     I have a son named Jon that is 15 that would be interested in playing
online games. Right now he has been playing with his new Xbox Live. He also
sometimes plays Yu-Gi-Oh online. What games do your sons play? (I tried to
email using the addy in the post, but I received a 501 error and it was
never sent.


                 Thanks,

                Sue in Michigan



-------Original Message-------

From: my3sonsinva
Date: 07/31/05 20:13:13
To: UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Counterstrike for homeschoolers

Would anyone here like to play online with other homeschoolers?  I
know when school starts there isn't many players online during the
day.  Email us at my3sonsinva@....  Oh, my teen can teach you
how to make your own unique spray.

Blessings,
Barb in VA





"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling
info>



SPONSORED LINKS Graduate school education High school education Home school
education
Middle school education New york school education School education in
california



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
UnschoolingDiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling.info>



SPONSORED LINKS
Graduate school education High school education Home school education Middle
school education New york school education School education in california

---------------------------------
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---------------------------------




---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"(Other that a litter of puppies over the summer)"

I'd definitely tell the school about the litter of puppies.  Did he
do anything other than observe that the puppies were born?  Like did
he look up websites or books to see what to do to help if there's an
emergency?  Even if not, I'm sure you could write up something about
observing the birth of a dog and monitoring the puppies.

Here's an online biology book that you could look at for ideas of
things you might have done that would sound like biology for a
school:
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookTOC.html
Reproduction is one of the chapters and I bet you covered a lot of
that when your puppies were born.  Maybe you talked a bit about
genetics when you were guessing how many puppies would look like the
mom and how many would look like the dad.  Genetics is a chapter too.

It's been awhile since I read it, but I think in the book
Homeschooling our Children Unschooling Ourselves she talks about her
son being into fly fishing and how they wrote that up for biology.

Has he done any gardening, or watched you do gardening?  Or does he
have any other pets?

Here's one thing I'd use if I were doing a transcript for my kids and
had to explain what we did for biology:

For awhile we had a lot of animal teeth things connecting together in
neat ways.

First, my son  and I were at Hershey Park and a groundhog boldly came
up to us begging for food.  I've never seen a groundhog before that
wasn't dead on the side of the road. <grin>  So we threw him a pizza
crust and watched him eat it and noticed that he ate just the way our
hamsters eat.  We wondered if that is something that all rodents have
in common.

Several days later my husband came home with animal teeth that he
found on the side of the road at work, and thought we might enjoy
seeing them.  He didn't know what they were, but he guessed groundhog
because he had seen a dead groundhog on the side of the road about
the same place a long time ago.

Several days later we went to my parents' house and played with their
new pet bunny.  We wondered if rabbits were rodents too, and went
home and looked that up online.  We found out that they're not
rodents because they have extra teeth, and found out that all rodents
teeth look the same.

Well, I thought of those teeth that dh had brought home, and I
pointed out to the kids that they didn't look like the pictures of
rodent teeth we were seeing online.  I opened up the mouth of one of
our hamsters, and showed them the teeth.  They looked nothing like
dh's roadkill teeth.   Then I opened up our dog's mouth (Isn't it
nice how my pets tolerate me? <grin>) and we looked at his teeth.  It
was a match!

That led to a discussion of what kind of animals might have been
killed in that area that had teeth like our dog.

Several days later we were driving in a residential area and saw a
skunk dead on the side of the road.  It had just been killed.  We
pulled over and got out to look at it.  It's mouth was open and we
got a good look at its teeth and my daughter pointed out that his
teeth look just like our cat's teeth.

We also noticed that it hardly smelled at all, not like skunks
usually smell when they get hit by a car. So I said maybe it was
someone's pet and had been descented, and told her about a relative
that used to have a pet skunk.  When she got home she used google to
find out what would be involved in having a pet skunk.

We're not getting a pet skunk but she does want to get 2 pet rats and
train them to do things like mazes.  She just won an auction on ebay
for a cage, and she's been reading lots of stuff online about having
pet rats. She looked up breeders online and as soon as her cage comes
in the mail plans on calling them to see when she can buy her rats.

In a transcript I could write about animal classification
definitely.  Maybe something with digestion because of the different
kinds of teeth different animals have and what they're used for.

We could write lots of other stuff about pets too, since my kids tend
to want a lot of pets. ;)  Like that our pet turtle ate every other
living thing, plant or animal, that we put in the tank with him, and
that he just keeps getting bigger every year. <grin>

  "He is very automotive minded right now(since he was 8) and there is
just no way I can count that as a mollusk."

Are we talking about a highschool transcript in order to meet the
requirements of the law or a transcipt for impressing a college so
that you can gain admission?

At first I thought you were talking about a college transcript and I
was going to ask if he wants to go to college if he's really into
automotive stuff, but later I see you seem to be talking about
highschool credits?

I can't think of anything automotive that would be biology, but I bet
you could come up with lots of stuff that he does with cars that
would be other branches of science.  Maybe chemistry too, if you had
to figure out which detergents best cleaned his greasy work clothes.
<grin>

> Do I skip the ones he refuses and go on?

What do you mean by skip?  Skip as in not showing the highschool that
you did anything for that subject?  I wouldn't do that if it's a
legal requirement and you could get in trouble for not showing it.
That would be something to discuss on a state homeschool list.  But
you could find things that the school understands to be biology.

Have you gone anywhere like a science museum?  Science museums tend
to have things that include many different branches of science.  If
you look on your science museum's website you'll probably find that
some of the exhibits have something to do with biology.  What about a
zoo?  Aquarium?

What I do in my portfolio, and I'm in a different state (PA) so I
don't know if this is anything like what you could do, is I
write "Some of our favorite educational activities from this school
year" at the top of a paper and then just start putting in stuff that
might impress them.  I don't point out that we didn't use a textbook--
I don't tell them what we didn't do, I tell them what we did do.  In
our case we did a "unit study" on animals.  In your case you did too,
just a different kind.  I bet if you think of all the conversations
you had about your dog having puppies you could come up with lots of
neat things to write about.

"Do I find pond water and suggest he look at while sitting in a car? "

lol!  I don't think that would really benefit anyone.  It might lead
your son to believe that you're nuts though. ;)

But did he see a pond this year?  What other bodies of water has he
seen? Has he seen a river, lake, ocean, stream?  I bet he noticed
some differences.  You could say that as part of your ecology study
you did a field trip to observe different bodies of water.  Did he
wade in the creek?  Catch any minnows or crayfish in the creek? Find
any seashells at the ocean?   Did he bring them home?  That's
observing specimens. ;)

Sheila

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "my3sonsinva"
<my3sonsinva@h...> wrote:
> Would anyone here like to play online with other homeschoolers?  I
> know when school starts there isn't many players online during the
> day.  Email us at my3sonsinva@h...  Oh, my teen can teach you
> how to make your own unique spray.

I asked my 12 year old if she's interested, and she said she doesn't
think she'd get into Counterstrike, but wanted me to ask if anyone is
into Everquest on the playstation 2?  She'd enjoy meeting up with other
unschoolers in Everquest.

Sheila

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, InnerLight Academy
<innerlightacademy@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> We are life long homeschoolers(10 official years) and on our 2nd
year as unschoolers.
>
> My ds is 14 and wondering about writing a transcript.
>
> for instance:
>
> He does not care one bit to take Biology,  Cnidarians do not
interest him in the least and we were wondering how do we count a
Biology credit on someone who will never study it. (Other that a
litter of puppies over the summer) He is very automotive minded
right now(since he was 8) and there is just no way I can count that
as a mollusk.
>
> All the cover schools in Alabama require it for graduation.
>
> There are other subjects with the same issues. I just used Biology
as an example.
That's interesting because there is no -legal- requirement that
states that -any- subject areas are necessary. One thought I had was
does he have to graduate? That is, can he simply move on to auto
tech school (my BIL and SIL are certified mechanics BTW) or whatever
once he turns 16 (max compulsory age in AL)? If necessary, I suppose
he could take his GED at that point (I don't think there's much
biology on the GED exam) - I did a quick look at some sample
questions online and all of the data you need is included in the
test material - so you don't need to have necessarily memorized all
the biology class thises and thats - if he can think logically
(which he probably can since diagnosing auto problems is actually
using scientific method type logic), he can likely pass it. I didn't
go to school in AL, but it was possible in my high school to get
enough science credits to graduate without ever taking biology (I
think you needed 3 or 4 yrs of science and you could take any of
what was offered - bio 1, bio 2, chem 1, chem 2, physics, earth
science - totally possible to skip all biology).

Oh hey if he might be interested - look into green house gases, auto
emissions, renewable energy sources (like the new hybrid cars) -
emissions, global warming, etc are biological issues -and-
automotive related.

In a message dated 8/2/05 3:27:07 AM, sheran@... writes:


> http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookTOC.html 
> Reproduction is one of the chapters and I bet you covered a lot of
> that when your puppies were born.  Maybe you talked a bit about
> genetics when you were guessing how many puppies would look like the
> mom and how many would look like the dad.  Genetics is a chapter too.
>

I hope a 14 year old boy has had some learning about human reproduction of
late, and hygiene, and disease prevention, and the realities of puberty.

Look through google for a book by Cafi Cohen on transcripts for high school.


Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/2/05 6:39:51 AM, debra.rossing@... writes:


> That's interesting because there is no -legal- requirement that
> states that -any- subject areas are necessary. One thought I had was
> does he have to graduate? That is, can he simply move on to auto
> tech school (my BIL and SIL are certified mechanics BTW) or whatever
> once he turns 16 (max compulsory age in AL)?
>

PLEASE specify Alabama (or wherever) when making statements like the first
line above, and then let's move away from the particulars of cover schools in
Alabama, because it's not about how natural learning works.

Those with specific questions about particular provincial or state
requirements, should find lists or websites about those states and how
unschoolers there
are dealing with particulars.

-=-so you don't need to have necessarily memorized all
the biology class thises and thats - if he can think logically
(which he probably can since diagnosing auto problems is actually
using scientific method type logic), he can likely pass it.-=-

Absolutely, on standardized tests.   They're vocabulary at most (except for
math, which is also its own vocabulary).      They're "read the paragraph and
answer the questions."

-=-Oh hey if he might be interested - look into green house gases, auto
emissions, renewable energy sources (like the new hybrid cars) -
emissions, global warming, etc are biological issues -and-
automotive related.
-=-

Old issues of National Geographic and Scientific American might be easily
found at thrift stores.

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm sorry, other emails from the list did come through.  You could
try my other account barbhas3@.... Counterstrike is a pc
game that you can play online.  All three of mine play it but my
teen plays it the most.  They have maps like, the simpsons, wal-
mart, low gravity, etc.

My oldest also plays chess online.  He plays at cowplay.com and I
forget the name of the other site.  Cowplay is great because there
are a lot of international players.

Blessings,
Barb in VA


--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "S. Kuntze"
<skuntze@c...> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>     I have a son named Jon that is 15 that would be interested in
playing
> online games. Right now he has been playing with his new Xbox
Live. He also
> sometimes plays Yu-Gi-Oh online. What games do your sons play? (I
tried to
> email using the addy in the post, but I received a 501 error and
it was
> never sent.
>
>

>                 Thanks,
>

>                Sue in Michigan
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: my3sonsinva
> Date: 07/31/05 20:13:13
> To: UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Counterstrike for homeschoolers
>
> Would anyone here like to play online with other homeschoolers?  I
> know when school starts there isn't many players online during the
> day.  Email us at my3sonsinva@h...  Oh, my teen can teach you
> how to make your own unique spray.
>
> Blessings,
> Barb in VA
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this
group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling
> info>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Graduate school education High school education
Home school
> education
> Middle school education New york school education School education
in
> california
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  UnschoolingDiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, InnerLight Academy
<innerlightacademy@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> We are life long homeschoolers(10 official years) and on our 2nd
year as unschoolers.
>
> My ds is 14 and wondering about writing a transcript.
>


A really great book, the best one I have found, about transcripts and
such is by Alison McKee.  I think the title is "From Homeschool to
Work and College" or something very similar...

Okay, here it is,I found it at amazon.com:

From Homeschool to College and Work: Turning Your Homeschooled
Experiences into College and Job Portfolios (Spiral-bound) by Alison McKee

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0965780619/qid=1122993638/sr=1-1/r\
ef=sr_1_1/002-0917334-9759268?v=glance&s=books


~Susan M. in VA
wifetovegman

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/2/05 6:39:51 AM, debra.rossing@m... writes:
>
>
> > That's interesting because there is no -legal- requirement that
> > states that -any- subject areas are necessary. > >
>
> PLEASE specify Alabama (or wherever) when making statements like the
>first
> line above,
Oops - sorry. I should have put "in AL" at the end of that first line.
The OP specified she's in AL and I was thinking that in my head as I
typed.

--Deb

Opportunities After "High School": Thoughts, Documents, Resources, by
Wes Beach. Includes a number of transcripts that Wes Beach has written
for his students; these transcripts can be used as models for
homeschool transcripts. Also discusses community college enrollment;
preparing for, choosing, and applying to four-year colleges; and
opportunities other than formal academic study. A number of resource
books are described. Available from HSC: $10 to HSC Book Order, 5520
Old San Jose Road, Soquel, CA 95073.

And - Wes Beach will be speaking at this year's Live and Learn
Conference!! He is very much an unschooling advocate and his booklet is
especially useful for unschoolers who need transcripts.

-pam


On Aug 2, 2005, at 7:16 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Look through google for a book by Cafi Cohen on transcripts for high
> school.
>

**He is very automotive minded right now(since he was 8) and there is
just no way I can count that as a mollusk.**

The Robot Zoo is an interesting book, showing what mechanical parts one
would use to make robot replicas of animals.  Perhaps that might
intrigue him, if you could get it from the library.

(I realize this is borderline manipulative.  Try the library and just
"strew" it, if you decide to use it.)

Betsy

> My ds is 14 and wondering about writing a transcript.
>
> for instance:
>
> He does not care one bit to take Biology,  Cnidarians do not
interest him in the least and we were wondering how do we count a
Biology credit on someone who will never study it. (Other that a
litter of puppies over the summer) He is very automotive minded
right now(since he was 8) and there is just no way I can count that
as a mollusk.
>
> All the cover schools in Alabama require it for graduation.>>>>>

I think this could be approaching it backwards - I mean getting tied in
knots trying to make ordinary life into transcript type Biology or any other
subject, for college admissions purposes.

Another approach could be to examine the specific admissions requirements
for the particular courses that your ds is interested in at the colleges of
interest, as well as what might be available in community colleges that
expect students to transfer after a time. The colleges are the ones choosing
their own requirements or standards, not the State high schools. There may
be a simple one semester Biology (or other subject) course, designed for
people whose high school experience is judged inadequate for the college
coursework. For that matter Biology may not be required at all for the
College course of study or degree program that your son may become
interested in.

Once again I am reminded of Valerie's dd, Laurie, who learnt all the formal
math she needed for her particular college admissions requirement over a
couple of months prior to enrollment due to having the desire and motivation
to do so when it was essential to allow her to continue pursuing her
particular goals.  ("The Unprocessed Child", Valerie Fitzenreiter)

Another thought is that you are worrying about it a few years earlier than
it will necessarily be impinging on his future plans. He has years yet to
discover Biology before college.

Maybe try subscriptions to Scientific American and Popular Science. There
may be paths into biology from the mechanics and physics that are already in
the forefront of his mind, that some of those articles will inspire.

Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.8/61 - Release Date: 8/1/2005

In a message dated 8/2/05 10:09:56 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:


> Opportunities After "High School": Thoughts, Documents, Resources, by
> Wes Beach. Includes a number of transcripts that Wes Beach has written
> for his students; these transcripts can be used as models for
> homeschool transcripts. Also discusses community college enrollment;
> preparing for, choosing, and applying to four-year colleges; and
> opportunities other than formal academic study. A number of resource
> books are described. Available from HSC: $10 to HSC Book Order, 5520
> Old San Jose Road, Soquel, CA 95073.
>

DOH!   Forgot.

I should've just sent this link right away, as it   has links to Wes Beach
and Cafi Cohen and Alison McKee all:

http://sandradodd.com/teen/college


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
>There may
> be a simple one semester Biology (or other subject) course,
designed >for
> people whose high school experience is judged inadequate for the
>college
> coursework. For that matter Biology may not be required at all for
>the
> College course of study or degree program that your son may become
> interested in.
Not to mention that there is a CLEP - College Level Exam for
Placement - that, if passed with a certain score will count as a
science credit - and for many college majors, one science is all
that is needed. DH did that - he tested out of all the science,
math, and fine arts he'd need for his major and jumped over the 101
English and history requirements as well - a couple days of tests
(which he compared to a few hours of watching Jeopardy and playing
Trivial Pursuit) and he already had enough credit hours to almost be
a sophomore (he tested out of 1 1/2 semesters worth of work).

--Deb

I want to thank you all for the help and suggestions. I will check out those
book ideas.

I dont know what got into me. I just all of the sudden panicked when I realized
he would be a 9th grader this year. Sometimes, I fall back into the box. LOL

I really dont see him going to a formal college. He plans to be a professional
dragracer and go to top fuel alchohol driver school. Somehow I dont think he
will need Biology. It has awakened me to the fact that my next child '12' will
possibly be needing to cover certian subjects in the near future and I should be
watching for opportunities in her favored areas a little more closely.

I have talked to some of my local Alabama lists and have learned a bit more
about what I am required and not required to cover.

BTW We did cover some biology today at the vet. Our dog has demodectic mange and
the vet let the kids watch him do skin scrapes,prepare the slides, and follow
him to the microscope in the back to look at the critters. They each got to look
at the cigar shaped many legged bugs. He also told the kids all about them.

THANKS

Dena in Alabama

www.impactraceteam.com








---------------------------------
  Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wanted to suggest the book, "How Life Works" (can't remember the authors
right now!)...it's almost a comic book style biology book...tons of pictures,
really cool.  I will count this towards/as my son's biology, as he's been
reading it.

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Also wanted to add:  Larry Gonick (cartoon history of the  universe) has a
"cartoon guide to genetics."  My kids love these books, and  they're really
humorous.

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amy, your posts on anger couldn't be more timely for me! I printed
them out, and plan on leaving them around so DH will find them.

Lately, Gabe (almost 9) has been getting angry a lot, mostly at his
dad and his friends. Amy's post is helping me think more carefully
about why. I had some vague ideas before about what was bothering him
(in general, rather than the triggers for each specific meltdown), but
I know that I need to be much more focused on what's going on, so that
I can be more proactive, and try to help him avoid these episodes as
much as possible.

In one month, we'll be moving halfway across the country, so, no
surprise, I think that's a big contributor to the stress that Gabe's
feeling.

But I think the things that set him off are also important. With his
friends, he's been feeling lately that he is much more generous with
them than they are with him. We live in a complex with lots of kids,
so he never really has any down time unless I make him come inside. He
always wants to bring popsicles and other food and drinks outside to
share, but rarely would the other kids do so. (I have a feeling that
it is partly because their parents can't or won't buy them enough, so
they feel like they have to hoard what they have...) Eventually we
suggested that he not offer things, because the lack of reciprocity
was making him feel bad, and none of our compliments about his
generosity made him feel any better.

another big factor, and the one I have the hardest time with, is his
dad's attitude about respectful parenting. We've (I should say "I've")
been doing this more thoughtfully for less than a year, and DH's
"paradigm shift" regarding parenting is a bit behind mine. He's still
too authoritative too often, and DS is not having it. Gabe is very
sure of himself, and he fights back. I do intervene, and I'm getting
better at doing so in a way that defends DS while not pitting me
against DH. But Gabe still has the cumulative effect of often having
to rebel against ridiculous/arbitrary rules.

Anyway, for DH, I can't wait for the Live and Learn Conference! And
for DS, I hope that understanding his anger better will help me to
intervene and advocate better for him.

Gwen

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, InnerLight Academy
<innerlightacademy@y...> wrote:
>
>> BTW We did cover some biology today at the vet. Our dog has
>demodectic mange and the vet let the kids watch him do skin
>scrapes,prepare the slides, and follow him to the microscope in the
>back to look at the critters. They each got to look at the cigar
>shaped many legged bugs. He also told the kids all about them.
>
> THANKS
>
> Dena in Alabama
Poor pup! That can be a nasty, uncomfortable problem. Hope all turns
out well.

--Deb

Hey all,

At one point or another writing and reading anxieties come up on this
list but, what about drawing. I still get agita over my son who is 8
years old and still not doing any figurative drawing.

Disclaimer, my husband is an artist and his work is abstract.

Please smack me down or please, pat me on the back. I don't know why
this so bothers me; that he does no figurative drawing at all.

/ liza sabater

mother of thing1 and thing2

:)

AIM - cultkitdiva
SKYPE - lizasabater


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In UnschoolingDiscussion@yahoogroups.com, liza sabater
<nyc.blogdiva@g...> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> At one point or another writing and reading anxieties come up on
>this
> list but, what about drawing. I still get agita over my son who is
>8
> years old and still not doing any figurative drawing.
>
> Disclaimer, my husband is an artist and his work is abstract.
>
> Please smack me down or please, pat me on the back. I don't know
>why
> this so bothers me; that he does no figurative drawing at all.
>
> / liza sabater
>
> mother of thing1 and thing2
LOL my DS is 7 and he'd rather draw schematic looking things than
dogs and sunshine and flowers. When he was a tot (maybe 3?) he drew
two rows of squares with lines connecting them one corner to another
corner. He said it was the electricity wires connecting the houses!
It's only recently that he has even gone to multi-colored within a
drawing (generally he just keeps going with whatever comes to hand).
And that was mostly because he wanted to draw "battles"
between "monsters" - I get one color and he gets another and we
create 'robots' and then 'zap' each other with rays and
build 'shields' and all. Oh, and now his favorite thing is playing
with PaintShop Pro (last night he made a yellow spiderweb and a
black dot for a spider. then he added blue dots, those were the
spider's prey, per his explanation, and he draw black lines from the
original spider location to the prey locations) and with the CAD/CAM
software that I use for work (I have it on my home computer as well
so I can work from home sometimes). He loves making spheres and
cones and such because he can shade them so they look really solid -
last night he made the solar system - yellow sphere for sun, various
sizes and colors of spheres for planets, including the unnamed
possible planet 10 (I found a bit about it in this week's Time
magazine and pointed it out to him and we spent a good 30 minutes
thinking up names for it - I'm leaning toward 'George' or 'Wow'
myself lol - I'm thinking some enterprising person should auction
off naming rights via eBay - the funds to go to subsidizing further
study of the new planet).

Just as some people don't read fiction and others love it and some
read only for information and others read anything they can get
their hands on, I think it follows that some people will draw
colorfully and fancifully and others won't. For that matter, perhaps
your DS just won't tolerate anything that looks less than exactly
like his subject so he just doesn't go there.

I recommend a round of Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences, either the
generic (off websites) or prescription (Thomas Armstrong) or uncut (Frames of
Mind) to remind your husband that it's only one of many intelligences and
genetics are such that he might have it or might not and that not all art is
flat on
paper (or pixelmap).

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't know if this will help: I recently read the book "Why Gender
Matters" by Leonard Sax. Very interesting--the author argues that there
are real sex differences, but they're not what we tend to think they
are (that is, not "girls are no good at math" but other things about
how learning is accomplished and relationships are formed and managed).
He says that boys do not tend to draw figures as much as girls do, that
often at ages where girls are drawing little scenes of houses and
families with flowers and trees and the sky and family dogs (and
getting praised a lot by teachers for it), boys are often drawing
things that look like scribbles. But if you ask the boys to tell you
about their pictures, they will say that they have drawn a depiction of
some kind of action. For instance, they might say they drew a dune
buggy going all around, and the scribble, to them, represents the path
of the dune buggy. After I read that, I realized that my son does this
all the time! He also draws figures, but a lot of his pictures are just
complex scribbles, and he will say that he drew a vehicle driving
around, or a fire burning, or a volcano erupting.

It helped me to become aware of this because I did sometimes have
thoughts like, "he can draw pictures of things, why is he doing all
this stuff that is 'just' scribbling?" I actually worried at one point
that he was regressing developmentally because he had done all these
really accurate pictures of things like helicopters, but then for weeks
all he was doing was scribbling happily away. But being cued by Sax's
book to listen for him to tell me what was going on in his pictures
made me aware that he has a specific purpose in drawing those
"scribbles" and they are very satisfying for him.  Now I realize that
he is getting what HE needs out of the drawing he does.

I hope this helps.

Su

On Aug 3, 2005, at 12:03 PM, liza sabater wrote:

> Hey all,
>
>  At one point or another writing and reading anxieties come up on this
>  list but, what about drawing. I still get agita over my son who is 8
>  years old and still not doing any figurative drawing.

On Aug 03 2005, at 01:14 PM, soggyboysmom wrote:

> For that matter, perhaps
> your DS just won't tolerate anything that looks less than exactly
> like his subject so he just doesn't go there.

It's amazing. He will drop from a 10foot ramp on his skateboard over
and over and over again because he knows it's only way to get one step
closer to being Tony Hawk. But he if he doesn't write a word correctly
or draws exactly what he has in mind, he gets immediately frustrated.
And btw, I've really worked hard against correcting him and just
letting him be (just as I have read many times here). But there's
something about speed and the physicality of the activity that allows
him to err. Does that make sense?

/ liza

On Aug 03 2005, at 12:37 PM, Su Penn wrote:

> I realized that my son does this
> all the time! He also draws figures, but a lot of his pictures are just
> complex scribbles, and he will say that he drew a vehicle driving
> around, or a fire burning, or a volcano erupting.

Both guys do this as well, but the little one more so. I should take a
picture of his dinosaur scene, Aidan, the youngest, drew. He is less
sporty than Evan (the oldest) and is more eager to draw. BTW, they both
like to color --we have canvasses and acrylic paints for them and what
not. It may also be that gross motor thing.

I definitely will read the book and report back. It sounds like a
keeper.

/ liza