In a message dated 8/4/05 10:34:54 PM, pennsu@... writes:


>
> We also like Bailey's assertion, as Kiersten mentioned, that you can't
> teach what you don't know--another way to think about it is that you
> can't expect a child to rise to standards of behavior you don't meet
> for yourself. Bailey would say, you have to discipline yourself first.
>

Too much "teach" and "discipline" for me.
Unschooling can operate without either concept.

-=- So, for
instance, if my older son grabs a toy away from my toddler, saying,
"You wanted to make sure you got to play with that toy as much as you
wanted to," or if he grabs a cookie off somebody else's plate, "wow,
you are really enjoying those cookies!"...-=-

-=-(Think about what a different message that sends
than an implicit or explicit characterization of the child as "greedy"
or "grabby" or "selfish."-=-

But there's a world between those two.

If the parent can come to think before acting, so can the child.
"Wait. That's Holly's. Do you want another one?"
That neither praises the child for acting rashly nor condemns him. It's the
way you might deal with a person who isn't also a child.

The examples given up above sound to me very condescending, and I can't help
but hear them in the poodle voice or in the droning on, kid-ignoring-mom tone
I've heard from so many moms in parenting groups when they're really trying to
find a new way but they've gone from physical restraint to just discussion
above the child's level of comprehension, or word count far beyond the child's
attention span. It's as though their speech is really intended for the other
moms or the author of a book who's not even there.

It doesn't help to say "the right thing" if the child is already mentally or
physically off and gone.

It's like music or dance. If the child's actions and attentions have a
certain rhythm, the mom needs to learn how many beats she has to respond or
react.
She can stop the music entirely (take him aside and hold his hands and gaze
soulfully while she gives a speech only she is hearing) or she can take her
two or three second window, have a positive effect, and let him continue to
live and act (assuming he's not hurting anyone, and the examples above seemed
easily solveable without stopping all social dance and music).

-=-This has helped my partner and me in looking at our own behaviors, and
in developing expectations of behaviors and treatments that really
apply to the whole family, not with one (higher) standard for kids and
another one for adults.
-=-

This is important when people are going to be respectful of children. It's
the soul of treating children as people. But it's not about teaching or
discipline. It's about mindfulness, respect, honesty and compassion.

Sandra




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