--- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, applsaucefactory@... wrote:
>
>
> the way that God makes thing alive is to breath into them- that is how adam
> became a living soul (life)- paul is telling us here that God has now made
> the resurrected jesus to be a life giving breath or power- jesus is now a
> life giving power (breath) in the sense that it is through him that our
> resurrected bodies will once more have breath and be alive

It is true that in the process of Paul's illustrations of the two kind of bodies
possessed by both Adams, Paul is referring to each as the father of the human
race, Adam, who originally had the glory of as a human, a crown of glory that
was not short of the glory of God, and Jesus, who, as being the regnerator of
the human race, is the last Adam, but who is the Lord from heaven, having, not a
terrestrial, earthly, physical body, but a spiritual body, by which glory (John
17:5) he now possesses from heaven, he will regenerate the human race. I have no
reason to think that Paul, however, was speaking of Jesus' being a breath of
life regarding the word "spirit". Paul is contrasting the two kinds of bodies,
still answering the questions: "How are the dead raised?" and, "With what kind
of body do they come?" -- 1 Corinthians 15:35.

> nothing here about jesus no longer being human-
>
> <<Paul makes a wide distinction between the Last Adam and the first Adam,>>
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> true- the one sought to be like God and the other humbled himself and took
> on the form of a servant

However, Paul here said nothing of this; he is speaking relative to what he had
just said in relation to the questions raised, and his statement that there are
spiritual bodies, and that there are physical bodies. Indeed, in this
illustration, Paul is evidently referring to the body of the sinless Adam, not
Adam after he sinned, for he is speaking of Adam's original creation, not of his
sinful flesh after he had sinned. Of course, elsewhere Paul shows that Adam did
sin, and that through this sin, the world had come to have sinful flesh in
bondage to corruption. (Romans 5:12-19; 8:3,20-22) In speaking of with what kind
of body one is raised with, however, Paul is using Adam's original creation, not
his sinful condition, in the illustration, similar to what he does in Romans
5:14.

> <<and the body of glory for each, as related to what kind of body one
> might receive in the resurrection. One is earthly, celestial, physical and
the
> other is Heavenly, celestial, spiritual. Paul did not say that one receives
> both bodies, but those whose grain, seed, produces only on the earthly,
> terrestrial, physical level will be, in the resurrection, like Adam, earthly,
> terrestrial, physical, whereas those whose seed, grain results in the
> spiritual level, will receive the body of that level of glory in the
> resurrection. -- 1 Corinthians 15:35-49.>>
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> this is all true, but as i see it, your error is that you assume that
> "spiritual" means "spirit body"- and that cannot be further from the truth- a
> simple exercise- look up every place where the word "spiritual" occurs i
> scripture and substitute "spirit body" in it's place- you will immediately see
> how absurd this would be.

This seems to be assuming that I have assumed something that I have never
assumed. Of course, the word "spiritual" itself does not refer to a body, but
when it refers to a "spiritual body", it is referring to a spiritual body, and
in 1 Corinthians 15, the word is being used in reference to "spiritual body",
not being spiritually minded, etc..

> <<In stating: "the glory of the celestial differs from that of the
> terrestrial" (1 Corinthians 15:40), and in saying, "As is the one made of
dust,
> such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are
> they also that are heavenly" (1 Corinthians 15:48), Paul makes it plain that
> the two are not to be confused.>>
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> yes, just as when he says that one is mortal and the other is immortal

I do not know of any place that he says that one is mortal and other is
immortal, although some translators make it appear to be such; the sinless new
creature is incorrupt, but not incorruptible, and mortal, until he has put on
incorruption, by which he then puts on immortality. Thus, in this context of
having put on incorruption, having overcome so that the second death will no
longer harm them (Revelation 2:11), death is swallowed up in vicotry. (1
Corinthians 15:54) Those who receive the spiritual body in the resurrection will
be immortal, since they will become joint-heirs with Christ in the heavens.
Nevertheless, Paul refers (1 Corinthians 15:54) to Isaiah 25:8, which, in
context, is not speaking of spiritual, heavenly bodies, but of those on the
earth, in the age to come when Jesus' sacrifice is being applied to regenerate
the present dying world into a new creation. If we apply his words in 1
Corinthians 15:54 to also include those being spoken of in Isaiah 25:8, then
this at least implies that even those who receive earthly, physical, terrestrial
bodies in the resurrection, once they have put on incorruption, and death is
swallowed up in victory, that they may also put on incorrupton, will be also put
on immortality, since they, once they have put on incorruption, would no longer
be in danger of being harmed by the second death, and thus, they would be
deathless, and death, for them, will be no more. -- Revelation 2:11; 21:4.

>, he
> makes it plain that the two are not to be confused- but that is because we
> are talking about the difference between a mortal body and one that has
> "put on immortality"- different kinds of human bodies, but bodies just the
> same

The only place I know that of Paul speaks of "mortal body" is Romans 6:12. He
never speaks of mortal bodies in 1 Corinthians 15, although some translations
make state such. The Greek in 1 Corinthians 15 never speaks of mortal bodies or
immortal bodies. That which must put immortality to gain the reward is not a
body, but the new creation, which by developing the fruit of the spirit, must
put on incorruption (overcome -- Revelation 2:11; attain the mark, goal --
Philippians 3:14)in order to put on immortality. The present body in which these
works are done in order to obtain the joint-heirship, however, is to be
dissolved. (2 Corinthians 5:10,11) That body that is bein dissolved will not put
on immorality.

Rommans 6:12 - Therefore don't let sin reign in your mortal body, that you
should obey it in its lusts.

These words are to sons of God, the new creation, not to the old creation, the
world. While Paul is not there directly contrasting a spiritual body with a
physical body, he is speaking of the present "house" -- mortal body, sinful
flesh -- that is being dissolved (2 Corinthians 5:11), the present body that
they had from birth which is still undergoing the condemnation through Adam, and
in which the works of new creature -- the inward man (2 Corinthians 4:16) -- is
being developed, and in which the works performed by the new creature is to be
judged. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Adam was not in a dying condition until he disobeyed, and penalty of "Dying, you
shall die" was placed upon him. While the word "mortal" does not necessarily
mean 'dying', it does mean a condition in which 'dying' can become a possiblity,
that there is the possibility of death. Adam was mortal even before he sinned,
and, while it was possible for him to come to be 'dying', he was not at that
time 'dying', since he had not sinned, and the condemnation of death had not yet
been placed upon him.

The word immortal means "deathlessness -- without death". This deathless is what
is spoken of as being attributed in Revelation 2:11, for once the new creature
has overcome, the second death will no longer be possible. He will have proven
himself to be incorruptible, and thus in line to receive immortality in the
resurrection.

So if Adam had been created immmortal, then he would have been deathless, and no
dying condition could have come upon him, and Yahweh's warning words of death
would have been inappropriate, since Adam would have been deathless. (Genesis
2:17) Therefore, Ada was created mortal, although he was not created already
dying; he was incorrupt, but not incorruptible. Once he put on corruption
through his transgression, then he became 'dying'. However, his body was mortal
even before he sinned, even before he became in the dying condition.

Of course, in Romans 6:12, that "mortal body" Paul speaks of -- being under
condemnation through Adam -- is doomed, and is to be dissolved.

Another scripture some point to regarding "mortal body" is, which I have already
touched upon before:

For indeed we who are in this tent do groan, being burdened; not that we desire
to be unclothed, but that we desire to be clothed, that what is mortal may be
swallowed up by life. Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also
gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:4 refers to "what is mortal" be swallowed up by life, another
reference to Isaiah 25:8. Some imaginatively add the word "body" to this, and
although Paul speaks of two different houses that new creature inhabits, Paul
does say body in relation to what he is speaking of as mortal. Paul is speaking
of the new creature, that which God has made, a son of God. That son of God,
created incorrupt as was Adam before Adam sinned, is made mortal, but for the
purpose of swallowing up death by means of life, by means of overcoming so that
the new creature would no longer be subject to being harmed by the second death,
and thereby putting on immortality.

> <<Adam, before he sinned, represented the physical, terrestrial, fleshly
> glory, which was not fallen short due to sin. (Romans 3:23) "God gives
> [assigns] it [the seed, the grain] a body even as it pleased him, and to each
> seed a body of its own." (1 Corinthians 15:37,38) Thus, that which is
> spiritual is not first in what is given [assigned], but rather that which is
> physical. -- 1 Corinthians 15:45.>>
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> yes, the physical mortal body is first- the spiritual resurrected body
> which then puts on immortality is second

The assignment is respect to the new creation, which begins as soon as the new
creature is begotten, which, for the believer in Christ in this age, is reckoned
as happening during this age, not in the next age. Paul speaks as though the new
creature's new "house" -- that body -- already exists in heaven, although he
is actually speaking in a reckoned sense. (2 Corinthians 5:1,2; Romans 4:17)
When the believer is first begotten, then all things are made new, referring to
the accounting that is given, assigned, the new creation as though having
already received the earthly, terrestrial glory of the age to come, when all
things are made new -- a new creation. (2 Corinthians 5:17) That terrestrial
glory is spoken of in Revelation 21:1-5.

In effect, the regeneration in this age (Titus 3:5), takes of the power of the
age to come (Matthew 19:28; Hebrews 6:5), and applies that power in this age to
create a first fruits of the new creation. (James 1:18) This new creation is
first given, assigned, then, the glory of the terrestrial, physical, earthly,
fleshly body, not the heavenly, celestial, spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:38)
That which is first given, assigned to a newly begotten son of God in this age,
then, is not the spiritual body. These newly-begotten sons are heirs of God, but
they are not "joint-heirs" with Christ until they have obtained the mark of the
prize; then they are assigned a spiritual body, and they will be raised with
that spiritual body in the resurrection.

"If" the second assignment is never made, then the new creature will remain with
only the assignment that is provided by the ransom sacrifice of Jesus, that is,
the glory of a terrestrial, earthly, physical body, except for some who do
succumb to the second death through willful sin. -- Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:25-29;
Jude 1:12.

> <<The seed first bears the glory that Adam had before Adam sinned, before
> it can bear the glory of the spiritual. Many, however, fail to go onto the
> level of the spiritual, and remain fleshy, carnal, babes in Christ. (1
> Corinthians 3:1) These do not, in the resurrection, receive the second
> assignment, the spiritual body, but remaining in the assignment of the
earthly,
> fleshly, they receive fleshy, terrestrial, earthly, bodies in the resurrection
> day.>>
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> there is nothing in scripture that says anything about anyone getting a
> fleshly mortal body in the resurrection day

That is all that is provided in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. What Jesus paid
for was what was lost. Adam did not cause death of a spiritual body, the death
caused by his sin was a death of the body that he had, that is, terrestrial,
physical, fleshly.

Those who get a spiritual bodies in the resurrection actually are the exception
to the rule, since they go to a higher level of joint-sacrificing with Jesus, in
effect, sacrificing the first, the sinless physical body first assigned, so that
they might obtain the second, the spiritual body. Thus they are encourage to
present their first assigned bodies (Romans 12:1), sinless bodies as a living
(not dying) sacrifice. They cannot present the present dying body as a
sacrifice, for the fact that it is already under condemnation of death. They can
only present what is living, that is, that which is given [assigned] to them
when they are first begotten as sons of God, that is, the terrestrial glory
corresponding to what the first human son of God had (before he sinned). (Luke
3:38) Jesus himself sacrificied for our sins, not the celestial, heavenly,
spiritual body, but the terrestrial, physical, earthly body. (Luke 22:19; 1
Corinthians 11:24; Hebrews 10:10) Jesus, in coming into the world, was the exact
equivalent of Adam before Adam sinned. (Romans 5:14, and surrounding: Romans
5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6) That sacrifice did not
purchase for us anything but that which was lost, that is, the earthly glory,
the glory of a terrestrial body, a little lower than the angels. -- Hebrews 2:9.
http://studies.reslight.net/?p=27

Those who become new creatures in this age, however, in thier reckoned
justification, are first given, assigned, a body as Adam had, since that is all
the ransom sacrifice provides for, but in this age, that assignment is for the
purpose of reaching that mark of perfection, so that what is first given may be
sacrificed, as Jesus sacrificed his perfected human life, and thereby one may
become, not just heirs of God as (a son of God on the earthly level as was Adam
-- Luke 3:38), but also joint-heirs with Christ. -- Romans 8:17.

> <<Jesus, however, is now the heavenly 'last Adam' from heaven, the
> life-giving spirit, who becomes the life-giver to the regenerated race that
is now
> dying in Adam. (1 Corinthians 15:45-49) Jesus is not now fleshly,
> terrestrial, physical, etc. Having offered his human soul once for all time
for
> sin, Jesus does not now have that human soul, but his soul -- his being -- is
> now spiritual, celestial, heavenly, etc.>>
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> jesus has a body- an immortal body- the same immortal body that he was
> raised with- a body of flesh and bones-

I have already shown from the scriptures that if this is true, then we have no
salvation.

> NAS Luke 24:39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me
> and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Yes, Jesus did appear with the body at that time, having raised and manifested
himself with that body for that appearance, something that a phantom spirit
cannot do.
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=215

> and that body is spiritual (not a spirit creature, but spiritual)- and
> jesus sits at the right hand of God with that human body made immortal- there
> is nothing in scripture that says otherwise

Of course, the body that Jesus, as spirit being, miraculously manifested himself
with in the locked room was not a spiritual body, but Jesus who raised that body
was with a spiritual body at that time, having the power to manifest himself in
his former body even though the door was locked. Jesus is never reported as
having made any such kind of miracle before being raised, but having been raised
with the plenitude of mightiness bodily (Colossians 2:9), with a spiritual body,
he could make such a manifestation of himself with his former body, even as
angels did similarly in the Old Testament times.

Christian love,
Ronald