The following TolkienDiscussions poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: What charactor is in need of most help?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Sam, 3 votes, 6.12%
- Pippin, 4 votes, 8.16%
- Merry , 0 votes, 0.00%
- Frodo, 10 votes, 20.41%
- Gandalf, 3 votes, 6.12%
- Legolas, 1 votes, 2.04%
- Gimli, 1 votes, 2.04%
- Aragorn , 3 votes, 6.12%
- Boromir, 10 votes, 20.41%
- Elrond, 1 votes, 2.04%
- Galadriel, 2 votes, 4.08%
- Saruman, 5 votes, 10.20%
- Sauron, 2 votes, 4.08%
- Witch King, 2 votes, 4.08%
- Tolkien himself :), 2 votes, 4.08%

INDIVIDUAL VOTES
- Sam
      - chillywilly2002ca@...
      - rpacyna@...
      - b127790127@...
- Pippin
      - ladyairelon@...
      - Brekke668@...
      - lotrgal@...
      - chidori88@...
- Merry
- Frodo
      - assembler_the@...
      - justkenneth@...
      - hawkeye313@...
      - waterfairy@...
      - mauigirl7887@...
      - cat13666@...
      - floryb@...
      - jadnisifia@...
      - chidori88@...
      - roscha_2001@...
- Gandalf
      - ladyairelon@...
      - lotrgal@...
      - bukshot@...
- Legolas
      - aralanthiriel@...
- Gimli
      - faith@...
- Aragorn
      - ring_bearer87@...
      - ladyairelon@...
      - lotrgal@...
- Boromir
      - MaggieJ_79@...
      - itzsharon@...
      - purrpretty@...
      - ladyairelon@...
      - lotrgal@...
      - the_mighty_fizban@...
      - a_new_devilry@...
      - tengumaster@...
      - mdrayer2001@...
      - arafel1962@...
- Elrond
      - ladyairelon@...
- Galadriel
      - ladyairelon@...
      - lotrgal@...
- Saruman
      - auricravenhelm@...
      - ladyairelon@...
      - lotrgal@...
      - arathion@...
      - biochemmed@...
- Sauron
      - murfthesurf411@...
      - elastar33@...
- Witch King
      - ladyairelon@...
      - silverleaf_the_wise@...
- Tolkien himself :)
      - ladyairelon@...
      - lotrgal@...


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where is this website???

--- faith_aquarius <faith@...> wrote:
> --- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., johnandgrendel@a...
> wrote:
> > I may be taking the wrong test, but it said I was
> a Hairy Footed
> Hill Troll.
>
> The Barrow-Downs website, right? Check your
> capitalization, etc. and
> use your full name.  My full name makes me a
> furry-footed Brandybuck,
> but if I leave out my middle name I'm a handsome
> black rider! I
> forgot what I am if I didn't capitalize, but even
> one change in your
> entry affects the outcome.
> Faith
>
>


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--- Bruce Moore <bem522@...> wrote:
> where is this website???

www.barrowdowns.com
Great site!

Cheers,
C.P.

I have found some interesting info on the subject of dwarves!
According to some at least, dwarf women had beards...and that's not
all! The material below comes from the Green Books at theonering.net
(http://greenbooks.theonering.net/questions/files/090101.html#babybear
ds is the exact url of the page this came from). I'd like to know
what some of the more knowledgeable folks here think about this. Do
you think the information below is correct or not?

Sharon

Q: I was reading some different questions when I came upon a remark
made by Turgon in the Q&A that Dwarf women had beards. Where does it
say that they have beards? I always wondered that but I didn't think
they would.

–Aredhel Ar-Feiniel

A: I have always wondered this myself, never having taken the time to
do an exhaustive search for the appropriate quotation. The quotation
I already knew about runs thus:

""[Dwarf-women] are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must
go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of
other people cannot tell them apart."

That one doesn't specify, but Ostadan has supplied me with more
material, which I believe is also the source for Turgon's previous
Answer. Ostadan says:

"Back in April, I wrote to Quickbeam:

The passage in Return of the King says that "[Dwarf-women] are in
voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so
like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other people cannot
tell them apart." … In Peoples of Middle Earth there is draft
material from that Appendix, and the draft version of this passage
says that "There is no difference in substance in the present text,
except for the statements that they are never forced to wed against
their will (which `would of course be impossible'), and that they
have beards." Why JRRT chose to omit this information cannot be
guessed.

In the post-LotR Quenta Silmarillion is a section containing "the
words of Pengolod concerning the Naugrim" (pp. 203+ of The War of the
Jewels, US Edition at least). In paragraph 5, we learn that "no Man
nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf–unless he were shaven in
mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many
other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have
beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor
indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it
in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that
they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their
deep bowers and halls."

Awwwwwwww, it's a little baby dwarf-girl!! And look, her beard's the
same color as her Daddy's!"


Thanks, Ostadan!

–Anwyn



--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., Christopher Robertson <arathion@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- Margaret Jirik <MaggieJ_79@h...> wrote:
> The only mention I remember of a female
> > Dwarf was in passing when a dwarf was explaining how
> > he was related to another dwarf
>
> Hello,
> The stuff about dwarves from Tolkien is sketchy at
> best but, Thorin Oakenshield had a sister(the only
> female dwarf named in all the books) who was the
> mother of Fili & Kili. Her name was Dis(I think she is
> on the family tree.) The appendices in the back of
> ROTK
> are a great source for filling in the gaps and getting
> back story.
> Cheers,
> C.P. Robertson

Here you go!

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_fastresults.html?
cart=3245146521652936

I went to sheetmusicplus.com, because I figured that would be the
best source and did a composer search under Howard Shore. Voila!

Sharon

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "don't you wish u knew"
<violet_22_86@h...> wrote:
>

cool. In middle earth I was Troublesome Meara
and had a really long Hobbit name
Sigismond Grenthumb from theMarish


--- Christopher Robertson <arathion@...> wrote:


__________________________________________________
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Last week, Scott posted about trying to choose a Tolkien-related
screen name for himself. I have been mulling over the same issue
myself and have been thinking about asking the group for some
feedback, but I decided to wait for a bit. There were already so many
name-related topics under discussion for a while there that I didn't
want to confuse things. Seems like things have quieted down a bit on
that score now, so I thought this might be as good a time as any to
bring this up.

First of all, I know it's not absolutely necessary to have a special
Tolkien screen name, so there's no need for anyone to point that
out. :o) I don't care...I want one anyway, just because I think
they're so goshdarn cool. :o)

There are two chief contenders at the moment, but I am definitely
open to additional suggestions as well. Especially seeing as how I'm
no closer to making a final decision than I was a week ago, lol.

The first of these is Gilthoniel. I am actually registered at the
Lord of the Rings Fan Club messageboards under that name. That board
requires you to come up with a screen name, and that was what
happened to pop into my head when I was racking my brain to come up
with something (probably because I was in the process of reading FOTR
at the time and the song that Frodo and Sam heard the Elves singing
about her was fresh in my mind). I love this name, but I'm concerned
that it might sound a bit pretentious to call myself after such an
exalted personage. :o)

Fimbrethil: The story of the longlost Entwives is so sweet, and I was
quite touched by Fangorn's recollections of his beloved mate when I
recently re-read that section of TTT. I like Wandlimb, too, but I'm
partial to Fimbrethil. (Side note: Isn't she the only Entwife whose
name is ever actually mentioned? Which in itself makes her kind of
special, imo.)

I've considered a couple of other things along the way, but those
seem to be the ones most likely to be keepers so far. I'd be
interested to hear any reactions to either one, and/or alternate
suggestions. Also, if anyone else in this group is already using
either of these names (here or elsewhere) or knows of someone who is,
I'd like to know about that, too. Thanks in advance!

Sharon

P.S. I don't know if Scott ever decided on anything, but I thought
Thrihyrne (suggested by Jack) was really awesome myself. :o)

--- Sharon <itzsharon@...> wrote:

> First of all, I know it's not absolutely necessary
> to have a special
> Tolkien screen name, so there's no need for anyone
> to point that
> out. :o) I don't care...I want one anyway, just
> because I think they're so goshdarn cool. :o)

Hello,
If those are your only contenders then I would go with
Fimbrethil(ENTS RULE!)
My friends and I play a Middle Earth RPG and are
always trying to come up with names for our
characters. We find that the Quenya/Sindarin root
dictionary in the back of the Silmarillion very
useful. There is also a book that a woman wrote about
the languages of Middle Earth. I can't recall the name
or the author though. Good Luck!
Cheers,
C.P. Robertson

-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon [mailto:itzsharon@...]

P.S. I don't know if Scott ever decided on anything, but I thought
Thrihyrne (suggested by Jack) was really awesome myself. :o)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon [mailto:itzsharon@...]
Sent: 01 November 2002 21:52
To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] On the subject of names...opinions wanted :)

Last week, Scott posted about trying to choose a Tolkien-related
screen name for himself. I have been mulling over the same issue
myself and have been thinking about asking the group for some
feedback, but I decided to wait for a bit. There were already so many
name-related topics under discussion for a while there that I didn't
want to confuse things. Seems like things have quieted down a bit on
that score now, so I thought this might be as good a time as any to
bring this up.

First of all, I know it's not absolutely necessary to have a special
Tolkien screen name, so there's no need for anyone to point that
out. :o) I don't care...I want one anyway, just because I think
they're so goshdarn cool. :o)

There are two chief contenders at the moment, but I am definitely
open to additional suggestions as well. Especially seeing as how I'm
no closer to making a final decision than I was a week ago, lol.

The first of these is Gilthoniel. I am actually registered at the
Lord of the Rings Fan Club messageboards under that name. That board
requires you to come up with a screen name, and that was what
happened to pop into my head when I was racking my brain to come up
with something (probably because I was in the process of reading FOTR
at the time and the song that Frodo and Sam heard the Elves singing
about her was fresh in my mind). I love this name, but I'm concerned
that it might sound a bit pretentious to call myself after such an
exalted personage. :o)

Fimbrethil: The story of the longlost Entwives is so sweet, and I was
quite touched by Fangorn's recollections of his beloved mate when I
recently re-read that section of TTT. I like Wandlimb, too, but I'm
partial to Fimbrethil. (Side note: Isn't she the only Entwife whose
name is ever actually mentioned? Which in itself makes her kind of
special, imo.)

I've considered a couple of other things along the way, but those
seem to be the ones most likely to be keepers so far. I'd be
interested to hear any reactions to either one, and/or alternate
suggestions. Also, if anyone else in this group is already using
either of these names (here or elsewhere) or knows of someone who is,
I'd like to know about that, too. Thanks in advance!

Sharon

P.S. I don't know if Scott ever decided on anything, but I thought
Thrihyrne (suggested by Jack) was really awesome myself. :o)



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It is a fun site. Enjoy!

-----Original Message-----
From: Tripleleo60@... [mailto:Tripleleo60@...]

P.S. I don't know if Scott ever decided on anything, but I thought
Thrihyrne (suggested by Jack) was really awesome myself. :o)

It seems I've gone with Sir Question of the Mark, K of T


Sir Question of the Mark, K of T

I personally think that Fimbrethil would be a lovely name for you,
Sharon.  Especially since you like it so much yourself - any name
that has a personal attachment is a good name.

I am very much in favor of the elvish/American Indian/Celtic
tradition of a person having multiple names and choosing their own
names based on their personalities - makes it much more personal and
meaningful than some random label assigned by your parents.

The self-named -
Kat

Cute. I still like Thrihyrne, but I also like puns! :)

Sharon

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., Tripleleo60@c... wrote:

> It seems I've gone with Sir Question of the Mark, K of T
>
>
> Sir Question of the Mark, K of T

What kind of clues/information would you need?

I'm leaning VERY strongly toward Fimbrethil at the moment, since
there's been so much positive reaction to that, but I'm still
interested in other ideas. Not sure what information to provide
though. :)

Sharon

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "Jack" <jack@t...> wrote:
> You have to give us a few more clues about yourself, Sharon, if you
want us
> to choose a name for you
> Regards
> Jack

Here are mine-I like the Elvish one :-)

Which one should I pick?Kinda like this self naming!


Celebgaeriel-elf
Daring Umbarian-Red book
Berylla Goldworthy from Combe -Hobbit
Globbad the Ugly-Orcish


Zaladriel

There is also a book that a woman wrote about
> the languages of Middle Earth. I can't recall the name
> or the author though. Good Luck!
> Cheers,
> C.P. Robertson

I know which book you mean; unfortunately I just moved and it is
still buried in a box somewhere.  It's interesting reading, or was
until my husband (obsessive Tolkien fan) informed me that it was
loaded with inaccuracies. *sigh* So if you find it, make sure to
cross-reference it against the appendices in the books.
Faith

I THINK I found a typo in The Two Towers!  This is from my 1982 Ballantine
AUTHORIZED edition.

Chapter: Shelob's Lair

During the description of Shelob and how Sauron lets Shelob guard the way:

"And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his cat (his cat he calls her, but
she
owns him not)...."

Shouldn't it read, "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his cat (his cat
he
calls her, but HE owns HER not)...."

!!!!!!

Rob

I think that Tolkien was trying to emphasize that though Sauron
referred to her as though she was his pet, she would not have claimed
him as her master.

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "Lord Torlek" <rpacyna@y...> wrote:
> I THINK I found a typo in The Two Towers!  This is from my 1982
Ballantine
> AUTHORIZED edition.
>
> Chapter: Shelob's Lair
>
> During the description of Shelob and how Sauron lets Shelob guard
the way:
>
> "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his cat (his cat he
calls her, but she
> owns him not)...."
>
> Shouldn't it read, "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his
cat (his cat he
> calls her, but HE owns HER not)...."
>
> !!!!!!
>
> Rob

Woohoo!  That would be my $287.

I take paypal... thanks Sir Q!

Idril/Anna

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., Tripleleo60@c... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/1/02 3:41:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> jack@t... writes:
>
>
> > Does that mean I don't get my $287?
> >
>
> Maybe next time. :-))
>
>
> Sir Question of the Mark, K of T

Cat's own people, right?

Anyway, that's been in every edition I've seen (1973 Ballentine
paperbacks, the hardcover redbook and the all-in-one Houghton-Mifflin
with Sir Ian on the front.)

Idril/Anna

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "Lord Torlek" <rpacyna@y...> wrote:
> I THINK I found a typo in The Two Towers!  This is from my 1982
Ballantine
> AUTHORIZED edition.
>
> Chapter: Shelob's Lair
>
> During the description of Shelob and how Sauron lets Shelob guard
the way:
>
> "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his cat (his cat he
calls her, but she
> owns him not)...."
>
> Shouldn't it read, "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his
cat (his cat he
> calls her, but HE owns HER not)...."
>
> !!!!!!
>
> Rob

"And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his
cat (his cat he calls her, but she
owns him not)...."

Shouldn't it read, "And sometimes as a man may
cast a dainty to his cat (his cat he
calls her, but HE owns HER not)...."
-----------------
i think what you're seeing here is an archaic
speech form, recast slightly it would read "but
she owns him not (does not recognise him as) her
master". i can't cite a direct example offhand
but i have seen "owned" used in that sense in
older literature and i think tolkein was using it
in that form, just as shelob may have served
sauron's purposes but was her own creature,
independent of sauron's will and she would kill
sauron's minions as quickly as any other morsel
that crossed her path. just as a cat will kill
your pet tweety bird or a pesky mouse without
consulting your wishes.
"gunner"


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from the del rey books e-newsletter, the "drin"
"gunner"
---------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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repackage (new movie art).

After thirty-seven years of publishing the first
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epic THE LORD OF THE
RINGS and its enchanting prelude THE HOBBIT, Del
Rey Books proudly
re-introduces new editions featuring photographic

images from the
forthcoming New Line Cinema live-action film The
Two Towers. Available
individually or in a boxed set with THE HOBBIT
(which offers a $2.00
saving from the individually priced books), the
new edition of THE LORD
OF THE RINGS trilogy awaits discovery by an
entirely new generation of
readers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE TWO TOWERS by J.R.R. Tolkien. Paperback
repackage (new movie art).

The Fellowship was scattered. Some were bracing
hopelessly for war
against the ancient evil of Sauron. Some were
contending with the
treachery of the wizard Saruman. Only Frodo and
Sam were left to take
the accursed Ring of Power to be destroyed in
Mordor-the dark Kingdom
where Sauron was supreme. Their guide was Gollum,

deceitful and
lust-filled, slave to the corruption of the Ring.

>>SAMPLE CHAPTER AVAILABLE ONLINE:
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DEL REY NEWS AND
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> I am very much in favor of the elvish/American Indian/Celtic
> tradition of a person having multiple names and choosing their own
> names based on their personalities - makes it much more personal
and
> meaningful than some random label assigned by your parents.
>
> The self-named -
> Kat

Oh, I like that idea!! Although, I have already  named myself Arwen :)

I like the elvish name, too. But then again, I am an elf, so I tend
to lean more towards Elvish things :)
Arwen

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "zaladrieloflorien" <fairytales@s...>
wrote:
> Here are mine-I like the Elvish one :-)
>
> Which one should I pick?Kinda like this self naming!
>
>
> Celebgaeriel-elf
> Daring Umbarian-Red book
> Berylla Goldworthy from Combe -Hobbit
> Globbad the Ugly-Orcish
>
>
> Zaladriel

Here are my thoughts on this: cats tend to own their masters as much
as their masters own them. Cats think of themselves as better than
us; we don't own them, they own us. Maybe that's what Tolkien meant.
Sauron would allow Shelob to guard it, but he wouldn't cater to her
wishes.
Arwen

--- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "kemdawn" <kemdawn@y...> wrote:
> I think that Tolkien was trying to emphasize that though Sauron
> referred to her as though she was his pet, she would not have
claimed
> him as her master.
>
> --- In TolkienDiscussions@y..., "Lord Torlek" <rpacyna@y...> wrote:
> > I THINK I found a typo in The Two Towers!  This is from my 1982
> Ballantine
> > AUTHORIZED edition.
> >
> > Chapter: Shelob's Lair
> >
> > During the description of Shelob and how Sauron lets Shelob guard
> the way:
> >
> > "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to his cat (his cat he
> calls her, but she
> > owns him not)...."
> >
> > Shouldn't it read, "And sometimes as a man may cast a dainty to
his
> cat (his cat he
> > calls her, but HE owns HER not)...."
> >
> > !!!!!!
> >
> > Rob