I've been back from the canyon for over a week, and despite the recent snowstorm
in northern Arizona, I'm already missing being there.

My son, Joe, and I were at Phantom Ranch and Indian Gardens over Thanksgiving. 
We made day hikes to Phantom Overlook, Ribbon Falls, Plateau Point, and out the
Tonto West to Pipe Creek (where we followed the upper section of the Old Bright
Angel Trail - it was very clear - but didn't go all the way down to the top of
the Devils Corkscrew).  The weather was perfect - mostly clear and in the upper
60's every day, and mostly clear and down into the upper 30's every night.  We
both went for a (very short) dip in the Colorado River at the Boat Beach (water
temp was 45 according to one of the rangers).  We attended great ranger talks at
both Phantom Ranch and Indian Garden.  I've posted some photos at:

http://picasaweb.google.com/landryst/GrandCanyon2009#

and some short videos at:

http://www.youtube.com/user/landrysg

Thanks to Bill, Gary, and everyone for your help in planning this trip.

Steve

--- In The_Grand_Canyon@yahoogroups.com, "garyclaytonpalmer"
<claytongarypalmer@...> wrote:
>
> A tourist asked me the other day what is the depth of the Grand Canyon as
measured from a straight line between the rims and down to the Colorado River
from the center of that line in the middle of the canyon at its deepest point?
> Can you tell me in feet and in meters?
>
The depth varies depending on where you measure. The Canyon rim is not level,
and the river elevation gets lower and lower as it flows downstream. Also, the
North Rim is higher than the South Rim, so your line from south to north will
not be level. Finally, what exactly is a straight line from south to north? Is
it a north-south line, or is it a line perpendicular to the winding river below?
See why it is not an exact question?

So, the best answer is an approximation. Most Grand Canyon visitors go to the
South Rim in the village area. The elevation here is about 7,000 feet. The North
Rim "straight across" is about 8,000 feet. The Colorado River here is about
2,400 feet elevation. The line from south to north would be about 7,300 feet
altitude where it passes over the river. So the depth of Grand Canyon here is
approximately 4,900 feet, or roughly 1,494 meters.

In case you are interested, the maximum depth I could find was between Grandview
Point at about 7,400 feet and the Walhalla Plateau at about 8,000. The river
here is about 2,500 feet. so the depth here is about 5,100 feet.

But let's play with this a bit. There is certainly a rivalry about whose canyon
is deepest. Most estimates elsewhere go from the highest nearby mountain to the
deepest point along the canyon. The Kaibab Plateau within Grand Canyon National
Park, that flat area north of the Canyon, goes up to well over 9,000 feet. The
lowest point in the national park, on the Colorado River at Lake Meade, is at
about 1,000 feet. So, to play this game, the Grand Canyon is up to 8,000 feet or
2,438 meters deep.

Here are some links to winter storm info that the NPS released on their Grand
Canyon Nat. Park web site today (December 7, 2009)

Critical Winter Backcountry Trails update December 7, 2009 by seasoned
backcountry ranger Lon Ayers.
http://www.nps.gov/grca/photosmultimedia/bc_audiocasts.htm

Current park weather and road conditions. As of Monday evening Dec. 7th, the
road to Hermits Rest is closed and Arizona DPS has closed highway 180 north of
Flagstaff. Read the latest updated info here:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/weather-condition.htm
NPS Winter Storm Trail Conditions Update Podcast

In this podcast, landscape artist Peter A. Nisbet discusses his reasons for
painting at Grand Canyon National Park, sharing his inspirations and
experiences.

"Without question this is the greatest landscape on Earth for painters. A
landscape painter faces more challenges here than anywhere else on the planet.
You've got light moving quickly, you've got forms that are incredibly complex,
you've got an array of colors that are beyond description, you've got a time
issue of the sun clocking overhead. You have to finish these paintings in two
hours or you are just painting a moving shadow."

http://www.nps.gov/grca/photosmultimedia/inside-look-019.htm

Why does it cost so much to take a mule ride into the GC. According to the site
about the trips its $477+ to do an overnight trip down to Phantom Ranch.
http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/mule-trips-716.html
What costs so much to take such a trip into the canyon? Does it cost all that to
pay a Cowboy to lead you down, stop at the viewing spots and have a sack
lunch,dinner that night, breakfast and a steak dinner.
And how many people an average year do this? Sounds like the concessions are
getting a huge amount of money to do these trips.And two nights go up by $90.35
not count extra people.
I am asking for some tourists who want to do the trip next year when I am sure
the prices will have risen again.

Grand Canyon National Park
Operational Changes to Backcountry Permitting Procedures Planned at Grand Canyon
National Park






Date: November 20, 2009
Contact: Shannan Marcak, 928-638-7958

Grand Canyon, Ariz. – The National Park Service (NPS) will be making operational
changes to the backcountry permitting system and placing a moratorium on the
number of commercial use authorizations (CUAs) issued for guided backpacking
services in Grand Canyon National Park.   These changes will not affect overall
levels of backcountry use or the number of backcountry permits issued by the
park's Backcountry Information Center (BIC).

In order to camp anywhere in Grand Canyon National Park (other than the
developed campgrounds located on the North and South Rims), a permit must be
obtained from the park's BIC.  These permits are most often obtained in advance
by submitting a request either in writing or in person.  Regardless of how they
are submitted, requests are currently accepted no earlier than the first day of
the month four months prior to the start date of the trip.

More...

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parknews/news_2009-11-20_procedure_change.htm

NOVEMBER 21 --
GRAND CANYON ANTHROPOLOGY, A History of Humans at Grand Canyon, Paleolithic to
the Present by Michael Anderson
12:00 to 2:00 at Community Center, Library Annex Building in Pine, Arizona. A
new Powerpoint presentation that Mike has put together since retirement, so no
one has seen it yet.

The location is easy to find. Just drive Hwy 87 north from the Phoenix valley or
south from Flagstaff (via Lake Mary Road, then Hwy 87) to the center of Pine.
The community center is signed and obvious. Folks can park off Hwy 87 or around
back next to the annex building. The center has four buildings; the annex is the
farthest west.
There are restaurants in Pine, and accommodations in Strawberry two miles north
of Pine.

Took almost a month off from the group. I am still here in Flagstaff working
part time at the Monte Vista Hotel downtown.
Did a day hike Sunday to Devils Natural Bridge near Sedona. And weekend before
last I hiked up to Agassiz Saddle in the San Francisco Peaks from the base of
the Snow Bowl chair lift.
The weather is currently cold and blowing winds, may snow at least up on the
peaks. We have had teo snowfalls one on Labor Day weekend the other around the
first of October, both only one the peaks.
Oh, I have my own yahoo group called Hiking_the_Grand_Canyon I just started this
morning. Come take a look see if you want. Nothing new posted and of course I
won't be hiking the canyon again till my 3 year explusion is over in April 2012.
But I have plenty of experience in the canyon after hiking there every
fall/winter and spring from 1983 to 2006. And I don't have many of my old 35mm
shots of the canyon left anymore.
Later... Gary