In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:17:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gckidd@... writes:

But  Costume History is
focused on getting the right look for a period, whereas  Fashion
History is more about the fine details of the construction,  materials,
etc

(Here are some thoughts and ramblings from an amateur.)

And to carry on the thought of the above poster, period costuming is
learning about the fashion of that particular period.
Fashion has existed since Adam and Eve wore fig leaves. It may not have  been
recognized as such until much later, but it existed just the  same. At first,
fashion was determined by what was needed and materials  available. As those
two factors changed, so did Fashion.
    I studied the history of fashion and the history of furniture.  Each
influenced the other, and both were influenced by politics .Fashion history 
would
be how different factors such as industry, war, travel, science,
communication, the economy,etc., influenced what was worn by those who  are
considered the
trend setters of the day.

So perhaps, costume could be described as a fashion worn for something  other
than ones daily life.  And with the passing of time, when a garment  goes out
of fashion, it becomes costume!

Does this mean, then that costume is the result of and/or a  caricature,
fashion?  We are told that the way we dress expresses or  communicates who we
are
or how we feel, and a costume designer will, choose  colors & styles to
express something about a character that cannot be  verbalized. Maybe they are
not
so different after all.Even Costumes for Mardi  Gras, Circus, Even Halloween
change and are influenced by society, new  technology and what is socially
acceptable.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It all depends on what you consider "recent". Christopher Breward (I
teach from his book, "The Culture of Fashion" in conjunction with James
Laver's "Costume and Fashion: A Concise History") considers the Medieval
Period, specifically the middle years of the fourteenth century as "the
birth of modern fashion" as this was the first period of significant
fashion change, because of the rise of mercantile capitalism in European
cities.

Breward also states: "Fashion is taken to mean clothing designed
primarily for its expressive and decorative qualities, [as opposed to
body covering for protection] related closely to the current short-term
dictates of the market, rather than for work or ceremonial functions."

I've always considered "costume" to be a specific garment or group/class
of garments, with all its accouterments. Meaning, a "walking costume" or
a "driving" costume; clothing with a specific purpose.

~lisa.s
---
> I'm going to be asking, of my Fashion History students, what is the
> difference between the two terms, Fashion History, and Costume
> History....
>
> Isn't Fashion a recent concept?  Would it therefore hold that Fashion
> History is also recent, only going back as far as Fashion?  At what
> point in time did the term Fashion originate?
>
> Can the term Fashion History cover the same amount of time as Costume
> History?

--
~lisa.s * llsturts@...

I am enjoying and appreciating the discussion about costume and  fashion.

Alexa's comment following the other excellent posts states it quite
succinctly:  "So perhaps, costume could be described as a fashion worn for 
something
other than ones daily life. And with the passing of time, when a  garment goes
out of fashion, it becomes costume!"

,,,

I have lost some emails, unfortunately.  Curtis, are you still  interested in
the costume jewelry I have for sale?  If so, will you please  write me again?
  Thanks,

Wanna

LATEST UPDATE July 21:
_http://wannainelpaso.com/latest_projects/index.shtml_
(http://wannainelpaso.com/)


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In  my own head, I tend to think of Costume as *defined* by the period,  where
as Fashion rather does the *defining*. The study of Costume is a  set solid
thing, like looking at snap-shots. In the case of   Fashion your studying the
flow, more like looking at a time-line.

   In the case of the history of either, I'd expect a book on Costume  History to
perhaps be more about "here is how the clothing was during  such and such a time
and place".

  One the other hand, a book  on Fashion History would I think be more about why
the clothing was the  way it was, and what it says about the attitudes of the
people wearing  it and reacting to it.

   But that's just me ; )
           Renee


---------------------------------
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--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "laurie-taylor"
> <laurie-taylor@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to be asking, of my Fashion History students, what is the
> > difference between the two terms, Fashion History, and Costume
> History.  The
> > question arose out of my own perception of which would be more
> correct based
> > upon my educational experience.  Am I right?  Darned if I know.
> That's why
> > I"ve come to you!
>
> I'd actually say the difference between the two is in the
> focus...there's a lot of overlap, granted.  But Costume History is
> focused on getting the right look for a period, whereas Fashion
> History is more about the fine details of the construction, materials,
> etc.  Granted, in some cases, to get the right look, you need to build
> some items the same way (for instance, you can't get a good line on an
> Elizabethan gown without the right kind of corset)...but I know a lot
> of costumers freely utilize what would have been exotic (or
> non-existant) materials for period costumes.
>

Also, I think that studying what materials were used with a costume, where
the materials came from, how they were transported, and how much they cost
are all a part of fashion history.  Costume history is more concerned with
what and how, not the larger picture.

Aurora


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I suggest "Hollywood and History:Costume Design in Film" by Edward
Maeder.It shows historical fashions interpreted in the style of the
day.The photo of the woman wearing a corset and crinolines under her
toga is priceless)   * THE STYLE OF THE DAY. *  Current clothing style
is Fashion.Decades past are Costumes,provided the decade is enough of
a distance away from the current one.If you dress in 1980s
style,people MAY not notice. But if you wear something from the
70s,they WILL notice.And they will ask you what costume party you are
attending.   I rest my case.   Elizabeth

Ok I had a lady make this bustle for me to put with a regular dress that I
have well as ya can see I gave her a pattern (actually two one was
reference) and well as ya can see it did NOT turn out like the picture in
any way.  I wanted it long like the blue dress but with just the one poof
like the red dress.

I've attached the pattern's instructions (I can't make them out to save my
life) and pictures of what she's done.

Can someone tell me someone who's only made cheer undies how I might correct
this without messing up the whole thing or having to start all over the
fabric wasn't cheap.

You will see the train that was suppose to have the poof I have since taken
out what she did so now it's one long piece.

She also messed up on the apron is doesn't pleat like the picture I can show
those as well but my main concern is the bustle poop that I am trying to get
here.

I am a blonde so I know that's not helping the matter but I just don't get
the instructions.

Thanks in advance.

Joy

Picture below is also attached.



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No pictures came through. Have you ever used an online service to share  your
photos? It's easy to use and very handy too.
Alexa
_http://www.tinypic.com/_ (http://www.tinypic.com/)


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--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Alexadbw@... wrote:
> So perhaps, costume could be described as a fashion worn for
something  other
> than ones daily life.  And with the passing of time, when a garment
  goes out
> of fashion, it becomes costume!

Depending on the venue, the difference between fashion and costume is
all a matter of intent.  One of the shows that we do each summer at
the park is called 'Rock U 2 The Top'...it's a music revue of
whatever's popular on the charts (or our best guess at what will be
popular, as we have to put the show together several months in advance
of when it starts performing, and the whole pop music scene can change
dramatically over the course of a single summer).

Costuming for it is primarily trying to find some of the latest,
trendy looks that fit the songs we are performing...our costume
designer for that show is often more of a stylist and less of a
designer, by admission of past designers.  And there have been a lot
of times when, while shopping with the designers/producers, I have
heard the statement, "Yeah, that's a nice cut...but it's just not
'costumey' enough..."

People buy these same outfits (or the pieces of them, rather) for more
common occasions (a lot of what we use in that show is sold in
boutiques that cater to the 'clubbing crowd'...)  For them, these are
fashion.  For us, they are costume.  As said before, the line can get
really blurry.

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
TheCostumersManifesto group:

Do you own a cat?

   o It has the run of the shop/studio
   o Never! Not near the costumes!
   o How many?
   o Of course! What's a costumer without a cat!


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheCostumersManifesto/surveys?id=2289048

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

It's hot outside. I'm between shows.I'm cleaning the shop and the
machines and the stock.The cats are helping,as always.And it occurs
to me...every place I've worked there has been a cat or two.   I've
created a poll. Do you have a cat? Check out the Polls link and check
your response.    Elizabeth the catslave

lol - People I've just met usually ask "How many do you have?" One of my friends
laughed at that and told the person he had to be more specific - how many
indoor? how many outdoor? how many kitten fosterlings? how many recuperating
from something? how many was I house sitting for? how many did I find homes for?
how many were full time residents and how many were from the neighbor down the
road?

   Regardless of where you live or what you do, life is always better if you
share it with a cat. Or two...




catslave54 <zimmermanel@...> wrote:
           It's hot outside. I'm between shows.I'm cleaning the shop and the
machines and the stock.The cats are helping,as always.And it occurs
to me...every place I've worked there has been a cat or two. I've
created a poll. Do you have a cat? Check out the Polls link and check
your response. Elizabeth the catslave






=^.^=

"If a man could be crossed with a cat,
It would improve the man,
but it would deteriorate the cat."
                                       Mark Twain
Please note that Mark Twain specified
that the cross would improve the MAN,
no need to include women in that.
Women and cats are perfect as is.

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi -- hoping this will allow my question to post.  Thanks!
Zoe

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And don't have lots of money! Inexpensive, but COMFORTABLE please!

Thanks for any help,
Zoe

In a message dated 7/24/2006 12:49:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
zimmermanel@... writes:

.every  place I've worked there has been a cat or two. I've
created a poll. Do you  have a cat


I have cats at home but ever since an actor began wheezing and having
trouble breathing as he pulled on a costume my cat had particularly liked, I am
very, very leery of having a cat or dog around! Now, if I could just get the
actors to leave off their fragrances and smokes, we would all be happy!
Alexa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Alexadbw@... wrote:
> I have cats at home but ever since an actor began wheezing and
having
> trouble breathing as he pulled on a costume my cat had particularly
liked, I am
> very, very leery of having a cat or dog around! Now, if I could
just get the
> actors to leave off their fragrances and smokes, we would all be
happy!

At UAF where my own cat commuted in periodically for years, we have a
spot on our measurement forms for allergies.  This is good for noting
down fabric and soap allergies, plus we used to ask if actors were
allergic to cats so we could keep their costumes away from Shoelace
and contact with places she rolled around.

On the perfume thing, I have actually found it possible to pull
people with body odor and excessive perfume use aside and explain
that we don't allow perfumes, aerosol hair sprays or anything other
than deodorant that can mess with people's nostrils on actors during
shows.  I point out how excessively hot, crowded and badly ventilated
the dressing rooms get, and how people have enough breathing problems
with this, plus the (real) fact that my chief costume maker gets
sneezing allergic reactions to working on any costumes that make
contact with perfume, so repairs get delayed while we have to wash
and dry the costume before it can be fixed, and people will usually
follow instructions.  We are lucky to have showers in our theatre, so
I tell them that ideally they can come in and shower before putting
on their costumes, something I also suggest to our "cabin boys" ie
Alaskan students who live in cabins with no water who smell.  Cabin
boys are usually kind of sheepish when told they are having body odor
trouble, and are thrilled to learn that they can get free showers
twice a day in our theatre.  I even take those little bottles of
shampoo I get in hotels and leave them in the showers for folks who
need it.

In a message dated 7/24/2006 4:15:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
thecostumersmanifesto@... writes:

something I also suggest to our "cabin boys" Alaskan students who live  in
cabins with no water who smell.

At least you have the courage to do it! I had one who refused to use
deodorant/antiperspirant for "health reasons" Unfortunately, the rest of the 
cast
and crew didn't feel so healthy and no one had the nerve to approach him!  It
was an amateur church group, so we really had to tread lightly! Thankfully  I've
moved on to another area.





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--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Hannon
<lotsakats1@...> wrote:

>   Regardless of where you live or what you do, life is always better
if you share it with a cat. Or two...
>
I've always thought that cats choose creative people to be their
companions while dogs just need someone prepared to play games and
take them for walks. There are so many paintings of "the artist's cat"
for instance, don't think I've ever seen one of the artist's dog !! As
a costume maker I consider myself to be creative, thoughtful, intense,
enquiring, characteristics I see in my cat. Someone posted a great
photo recently on a website of their cat "helping" sew a dress with
its face peering under the arm of the sewing machine, I loved it ! ! I
just wish my girlie would refrain from sleeping on the fabric laid up
on the cutting table overnight, she knows the door of the sewing room
can't close because of the storage boxes stacked along one wall.....

No, absolutely NOT. I am allergic to cats.
I have been sewing for over 40 years and had 0 cats. I have had
several dogs, usually 2 dogs at a time. Right now I have 1 dog.

I never worked in a shop that had a cat on staff--one summer, doing
outdoor musical theater, a raccoon, but never a cat. But the first
costumer I worked for had hamsters, and often would bring one in with
it's Habatrail ball. It was always a hoot to see that thing scooting
down the halls. If it got too far a field, someone would reverse it's
direction and head it back toward the shop...I haven't thought about
that in way too long!

~lisa.s
--
* llsturts@...

We had no animals at USU...although Nancy's two boys were more than a
handful in their own right!  ;)  Where I'm at now, we still don't have
any animals (that we bring in...the park itself has more than its fair
share of residential cats, coons, and other critters...)

At home, I have no cats...but I have a pigeon (found the poor thing
last winter with a broken wing, sitting in the driveway blocking me
from leaving for work...the wing healed well enough for him to fly,
just not to fly well...)  One of my best friends, who occasionally
does costume work, has a swarm of cats, though...who have all adopted
me as part of the family (of course, she also has dogs, horses,
ponies, geese, ducks, chickens, fish...you get the idea...)

Does anyone have a good links for glove patterns?

Most of the commercial companies (vogue, butterick, simplicity) only
offer winter gloves or womens gloves.

I need to be able to find some well fitting gloves for men and women
that can be made out of non stretch fabric (silk duponi).

So far I found bulky winter gloves and womens opera gloves.....

ALOHA: I made some wonderful gloves with no pattern by carefully taking
apart ONE glove that had the look I liked.  Save a glove mate to refer to
and then use the pieces you have picked apart for a pattern.  It was very
simple to figure out how to sew the gloves.  You can get some great old
gloves at thrift shops.  You do have to sew the tight parts by hand.
               Good Luck.  Poppy on the island of Kauai

How would you rate their patterns - easy to use? Difficult to use?

On a scale of 1-10 what do you rate their projects in in terms of
difficulty? (skill) 1 being easy 10 being really hard.

Just curious.  I love their stuff but I've never tried it.

Kristen

--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, kittykatx@... wrote:
>
> My faviote company for victorian gowns is TRUELY VICTORIAN:
>
>
> http://trulyvictorian.netfirms.com/catalog1.html
>
> They also sell patterns for the bustles and wire for them also.I
use there patterns all the time for clients.
>
> Hope this is helpful-
> xochitl
>

Try this link - I've made the manly pursuits pattern and was very
happy with it.  The site owner is extremely helpful as well.

http://www.patternstudio.com/glovegallery.htm

Kathy

--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Sith" <Sithvixen@...>
wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a good links for glove patterns?
>

Fiddly but easy.  Everything I've ever done from Truly Victorian has
gone together directly and simply, which is to say that their pattern
drafting and grading is first-class.  But (of course) if you're doing
Victorian, it's elaborate and different than today's cut.  I'd rate
their patterns at about a 3 to 4, certainly no more _difficult_ than
a commercial pattern from the fabric store.

They have a period fitting protocol, which works beautifully - use
it!  And remember that it'll feel somewhat different when finished
than you're used to since the cut is different than you're used to,
regardless of the different under- and shape-wear (ie, corsetry and
bustle) which are essential to the look.

-- Emc^2

--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Sith" <Sithvixen@...>
wrote:
>
> How would you rate their patterns - easy to use? Difficult to use?
>
> On a scale of 1-10 what do you rate their projects in in terms of
> difficulty? (skill) 1 being easy 10 being really hard.
>
> Just curious.  I love their stuff but I've never tried it.
>
> Kristen
>

I found this thought you may want to check it out?


http://www.Clothinglabels4U.com

I need ideas for a skin suit for a small movie.The actress has to
remove her swimsuit while she is in the water,and it has to look like
she is nude,but she will be backlit and in profile and nothing REALLY
shows.The director and the actress have left it up to me to find
something she can wear underneath her suit. Do you think a nude bra
and thong will work? I figure if it's wet and it's spandex,it should
be clingy enough not to create a line,right?   Elizabeth

Why not a sheer nude bodysuit?

Sylrog

On Jul 31, 2006, at 7:36 PM, catslave54 wrote:

> I need ideas for a skin suit for a small movie.The actress has to
>  remove her swimsuit while she is in the water,and it has to look like
>  she is nude,but she will be backlit and in profile and nothing REALLY
>  shows.The director and the actress have left it up to me to find
>  something she can wear underneath her suit. Do you think a nude bra
>  and thong will work? I figure if it's wet and it's spandex,it should
>  be clingy enough not to create a line,right? Elizabeth
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Manhattan Wardrobe Supply (www.wardrobesupplies.com; 212 268 9993)
carries some very good nude suits that might be just what you need.
Good luck! Bev Bullock
ShakespeareNYC

--- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "catslave54"
<zimmermanel@...> wrote:
>
> I need ideas for a skin suit for a small movie