From Hagerstown Herald-Mail (July 3).....

Security increased for Fourth celebration

The National Park Service will be beefing up patrols and inspecting
unattended bags to ensure the safety of the 20,000 to 30,000 people
expected to crowd Antietam National Battlefield for Saturday's Salute
to Independence fireworks display.

The precautions are a response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and
the continuing threat of terrorism, Chief Ranger Ed Wenschhof said.

"We want people to feel safe at the concert, and we've made changes
that they may or may not notice," he said.

The park service will be searching all suspicious or unattended bags
at the park on Md. 65, Wenschhof said. The park service is
encouraging attendees to bring their belongings into the park no
earlier than 2 p.m. The fireworks begin at 9:45 p.m.

The number of entrances also will be limited and people will be
channeled through the main seating area to give security staff a
better view of those attending the concert, Wenschhof said.

About 100 National Park Service, Washington County Sheriff's deputies
and local volunteer groups will be patrolling the park on foot, on
bicycles and in vehicles, Wenschhof said. Last year, the park used a
security staff of 70 people, he said.

In recent years, the security staff has made arrests for assault and
illegal sales and had a minor domestic incident during the fireworks
celebration, Wenschhof said.

As in previous years, planes from the 167th Airlift Wing of the West
Virginia Air National Guard from Martinsburg, W.Va., will make passes
over the battlefield for the celebration, according to a pilot, Capt.
Chris Sigler. "We told ourselves if we have the manpower, we'd still
do it. As it turned out, there was enough people interested," Sigler
said.

The event is special to the pilots, and he's proud to be one of the
soldiers who will be piloting the C-130 that will make two passes
over the battlefield at 7 p.m., Sigler said. During the first pass,
the plane will speed by at 150 mph. For the second pass, the plane
will gain speed and be going 250 mph, Sigler said.

This year's fireworks celebration will be without the crowd-pleasing
artillery guns that have accompanied Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture,"
played by the Maryland Symphony Orchestra. The Maryland National
Guard's Battery B, 2nd Battalion, 110th Field Artillery was activated
to support the war on terrorism.

Wenschhof said he believes that the park crowd will live up to
expectations on Saturday based on the attendance he's seen at other
events in the Tri-State area. People are realizing that they need to
live their lives despite the terrorism in the world, he said.
Wenschhof said he's seen the concert and fireworks 11 times and is
still moved by their beauty. "I'll miss the artillery though," he
said.

POSTED BY: Tom Shay

Good evening all,

I am new to this room and this is my first attempt at posting.  I have been
interested in September '62 Maryland campaign for a number of years some time
now and look forward to exchanging ideas and information with the members of the
group.

Best Regards
Ron Church
Manchester, Md


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would also be interested in attending a muster if the scheduling could be
arranged.

Ron Church
Manchester, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 07/07/2002 10:34:22 PM EST, rchurch@... writes:
<< I am new to this room and this is my first attempt at posting. >>

Ron, welcome to TalkAntietam. Are you also member of GDG? If so, I assume it
was you who gave us the Pipe Creek tour several years ago.

Feel free to initiate any discussions about the Maryland Campaign that
interest you.

Now that the anniversary of that "other battle" is over,  we can focus on the
real High Water Mark: Antietam.

Tom Shay - Cressona, PA

Thank you Tom,

Yes, I am the one who led us around on that snowy day.  I think that might
have been the one snow day we had all winter long!  Murphy surely conspired
against our trip that day, but at least the pub was warm.

But now as you correctly put it, back to the real High Water Mark,
Sharpsburg.

I have seen several different maps which show somewhat different routes of
approach for Mansfield's XII Corps.  Some show him as moving west from the
Line farm across Smoketown Road, then south (which would be along the west
side of S'town Rd), through the gap between the East and North Woods, then
south along the face of the East Woods  Others show him as moving south from
the Line Farm (along the west side of S'town Rd) then sweeping right (west)
and coming through the East Woods.  Given where he was wounded I tend to
think the latter is probably correct but would appreciate any input the
group might have.

Ron Church
Manchester, MD

Ron,

Welcome. I am not the moderator of this group but a fellow
member. Looking forward to your questions and also learning from
you as well.

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Pvt., CS Signals,
Longstreet's Corps

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Church" <rchurch@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:31 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] New member


> Good evening all,
>
> I am new to this room and this is my first attempt at posting.
I have been interested in September '62 Maryland campaign for a
number of years some time now and look forward to exchanging
ideas and information with the members of the group.
>
> Best Regards
> Ron Church
> Manchester, Md
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Tom S;

Were you by any chance at Gburg this weekend? If so, answer me
privately please.

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Pvt., CS Signals,
Longstreet's Corps

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: <rotbaron@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] New member


> In a message dated 07/07/2002 10:34:22 PM EST, rchurch@...
writes:
> << I am new to this room and this is my first attempt at
posting. >>
>
> Ron, welcome to TalkAntietam. Are you also member of GDG? If
so, I assume it
> was you who gave us the Pipe Creek tour several years ago.
>
> Feel free to initiate any discussions about the Maryland
Campaign that
> interest you.
>
> Now that the anniversary of that "other battle" is over,  we
can focus on the
> real High Water Mark: Antietam.
>
> Tom Shay - Cressona, PA
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/GmiolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
------~->
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Ok.  It looks as if some of you may be interested in
doing a muster at Antietam. Thats great, Im thinking
around sometime in mid-late September/ early October..
How does this sound? We can work one specific dates
when people start discussing an interest. ASs for
tours. Does anyone have anything they would like to
present. I volunteer to do 1-2 programs myself; just
not sure what yet. Perhaps an afermath program; or a
Sunken Road tour; or a civilains of Sharpsburg....or a
John B. Gordon: Union Target Practice at Antietam
Tour..LOL
Hope to hear some feedback

-Jason

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Jason

I would avoid mid-september just becasue of the anniversary of the
battle would make it really crowded.  My vote is for early October.

Andy

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

Ok.  It looks as if some of you may be interested in doing a
muster at Antietam. Thats great, Im thinking around sometime in
mid-late September/ early October.. How does this sound? We can
work one specific dates when people start discussing an interest.
ASs for tours. Does anyone have anything they would like to
present. I volunteer to do 1-2 programs myself; just not sure what
yet. Perhaps an afermath program; or a Sunken Road tour; or a
civilains of Sharpsburg....or a John B. Gordon: Union Target
Practice at Antietam Tour..LOL

Hope to hear some feedback

-Jason

Having just been there, I'd advise waiting until all the leaves fall, so you
can actually SEE something....

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mills [mailto:kamills@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:11 AM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] muster


Jason

I would avoid mid-september just becasue of the anniversary of the
battle would make it really crowded.  My vote is for early October.

Andy

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

Ok.  It looks as if some of you may be interested in doing a
muster at Antietam. Thats great, Im thinking around sometime in
mid-late September/ early October.. How does this sound? We can
work one specific dates when people start discussing an interest.
ASs for tours. Does anyone have anything they would like to
present. I volunteer to do 1-2 programs myself; just not sure what
yet. Perhaps an afermath program; or a Sunken Road tour; or a
civilains of Sharpsburg....or a John B. Gordon: Union Target
Practice at Antietam Tour..LOL

Hope to hear some feedback

-Jason








Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

My vote also goes to October for a possible muster.

David Lutton
Hollidaysburg Pa

---- Original Message -----
From: J Amico <darkpharoh@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] muster


> Ok.  It looks as if some of you may be interested in
> doing a muster at Antietam. Thats great, Im thinking
> around sometime in mid-late September/ early October..
> How does this sound? We can work one specific dates
> when people start discussing an interest. ASs for
> tours. Does anyone have anything they would like to
> present. I volunteer to do 1-2 programs myself; just
> not sure what yet. Perhaps an afermath program; or a
> Sunken Road tour; or a civilains of Sharpsburg....or a
> John B. Gordon: Union Target Practice at Antietam
> Tour..LOL
> Hope to hear some feedback
>
> -Jason
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

In a message dated 7/8/02 6:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rchurch@...
writes:


> I have seen several different maps which show somewhat different routes of
> approach for Mansfield's XII Corps.  Some show him as moving west from the
> Line farm across Smoketown Road, then south (which would be along the west
> side of S'town Rd), through the gap between the East and North Woods, then
> south along the face of the East Woods  Others show him as moving south from
> the Line Farm (along the west side of S'town Rd) then sweeping right (west)
> and coming through the East Woods.  Given where he was wounded I tend to
> think the latter is probably correct but would appreciate any input the
> group might have.
>

Hi Ron!  Welcome to the group.  I have researched the movements of the 128th
Pa for several years.  They were in Crawford's Brigade, Williams' Div of the
XII Corp.  I can tell you that the latter route matches Crawford's Brigade
into battle, until they get to the East Words.  At that point - the 10th Me
breaks off and goes into the East side of the Smoketown Rd.

There is also, as you know, some controversy as to where he was wounded.  He
was riding back and forth, deploying his troops,  wounded; so it could have
been on either side of the Smoketown Rd in the area of the East Woods.

Paula Gidjunis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Paula,

I've looked over the maps again and they point out pretty clearly that
Greene's Div followed behind Crawford.  That is to say; first west to and
across Smoketown Rd.,  then south to the battlefield. This has them heading
almost due south into the east woods which is at least a third of a mile,
maybe even half a mile west of where the Mansfield mortuary cannon is
located.   Just can't figure out why Mansfield himself would be that far
east as his Corps moves to the attack (off to the west).  Of course the
short answer is he was getting himself killed.

Ron Church
Manchester MD


> Hi Ron!  Welcome to the group.  I have researched the movements of the
128th
> Pa for several years.  They were in Crawford's Brigade, Williams' Div of
the
> XII Corp.  I can tell you that the latter route matches Crawford's Brigade
> into battle, until they get to the East Words.  At that point - the 10th
Me
> breaks off and goes into the East side of the Smoketown Rd.
>
> There is also, as you know, some controversy as to where he was wounded.
He
> was riding back and forth, deploying his troops,  wounded; so it could
have
> been on either side of the Smoketown Rd in the area of the East Woods.
>
> Paula Gidjunis

In a message dated 7/10/02 10:21:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rchurch@...
writes:


> This has them heading
> almost due south into the east woods which is at least a third of a mile,
> maybe even half a mile west of where the Mansfield mortuary cannon is
> located.   Just can't figure out why Mansfield himself would be that far
> east as his Corps moves to the attack (off to the west).  Of course the
> short answer is he was getting himself killed.
>

Ron:

The mortuary canon was over by where the 10th Me had been sent over to the
east side of the Smoketown Rd.  Have you checked out "The CW Journals of John
Mead Gould"?  He was a major in the 10th Me.  I think you can find some
interesting stuff.

   It appears from various research that Mansfield did not have his staff
officers with him at Antietam and he was deploying his troops himself.
Mansfield had several "green" troops with him (like he wasn't green
himself!), and had a fear they would all run.

This is a quote from Alpheus Williams, .  From the Cannon's Mouth.  p. 125

"Mansfield ordered the men to march in tight columns, despite protests from
his subordinates. . . . "I had five new regiments without drill or
discipline. (The 5 regiments were the 124-125-128 Pa, 13th NJ and 107th NY.)
General Mansfield was greatly excited. . . .  Feeling that our heavy masses
of raw troops were sadly exposed, I begged him to let me deploy them in line
of battle, in which the men present by two ranks or rows instead of twenty,
as we were marching, but I could not move him.  He was positive that all the
new regiments would run away."

Paula




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paula,

Thanks again,  I am not familiar with "... J.M.Gould"  Do you know where I
might find them?
This is very interesting!  It makes you wonder that if he had so little
faith in his men, how in heavens name did he expect them to be able to wheel
right and come up into lines of battle while under fire which they would
have had to do if they were to fall in on Hooker's left.

Ron



> Ron:
>
> The mortuary canon was over by where the 10th Me had been sent over to the
> east side of the Smoketown Rd.  Have you checked out "The CW Journals of
John
> Mead Gould"?  He was a major in the 10th Me.  I think you can find some
> interesting stuff.
>
>   It appears from various research that Mansfield did not have his staff
> officers with him at Antietam and he was deploying his troops himself.
> Mansfield had several "green" troops with him (like he wasn't green
> himself!), and had a fear they would all run.
>
> This is a quote from Alpheus Williams, .  From the Cannon's Mouth.  p. 125
>
> "Mansfield ordered the men to march in tight columns, despite protests
from
> his subordinates. . . . "I had five new regiments without drill or
> discipline. (The 5 regiments were the 124-125-128 Pa, 13th NJ and 107th
NY.)
> General Mansfield was greatly excited. . . .  Feeling that our heavy
masses
> of raw troops were sadly exposed, I begged him to let me deploy them in
line
> of battle, in which the men present by two ranks or rows instead of
twenty,
> as we were marching, but I could not move him.  He was positive that all
the
> new regiments would run away."
>
> Paula
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Ron,

The XII Corps was largely composed of  nine month regiments which
had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
Maryland.

There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
to load while fighting!!!!!!

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Pvt., CS Signals,
Longstreet's Corps

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Church" <rchurch@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


> Paula,
>
> Thanks again,  I am not familiar with "... J.M.Gould"  Do you
know where I
> might find them?
> This is very interesting!  It makes you wonder that if he had
so little
> faith in his men, how in heavens name did he expect them to be
able to wheel
> right and come up into lines of battle while under fire which
they would
> have had to do if they were to fall in on Hooker's left.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> > Ron:
> >
> > The mortuary canon was over by where the 10th Me had been
sent over to the
> > east side of the Smoketown Rd.  Have you checked out "The CW
Journals of
> John
> > Mead Gould"?  He was a major in the 10th Me.  I think you can
find some
> > interesting stuff.
> >
> >   It appears from various research that Mansfield did not
have his staff
> > officers with him at Antietam and he was deploying his troops
himself.
> > Mansfield had several "green" troops with him (like he wasn't
green
> > himself!), and had a fear they would all run.
> >
> > This is a quote from Alpheus Williams, .  From the Cannon's
Mouth.  p. 125
> >
> > "Mansfield ordered the men to march in tight columns, despite
protests
> from
> > his subordinates. . . . "I had five new regiments without
drill or
> > discipline. (The 5 regiments were the 124-125-128 Pa, 13th NJ
and 107th
> NY.)
> > General Mansfield was greatly excited. . . .  Feeling that
our heavy
> masses
> > of raw troops were sadly exposed, I begged him to let me
deploy them in
> line
> > of battle, in which the men present by two ranks or rows
instead of
> twenty,
> > as we were marching, but I could not move him.  He was
positive that all
> the
> > new regiments would run away."
> >
> > Paula
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/GmiolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
------~->
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

In a message dated 7/10/02 11:30:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rchurch@...
writes:


> I am not familiar with "... J.M.Gould"  Do you know where I
> might find them?
>

Ron:

You can buy it in book format:  The CW Journals of John Mead Gould, ed by Wm.
B. Jordan.  ISBN: 0-935523-63-4  It is a pricy book - IIRC I paid $50.00 a
couple of years ago - but for my research on the 128th, it was worth it.

Paula






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Several years ago Al Gambone (author of several books on Generals from the
Norristown, Pa area, Hancock, Zook, Hartranft, etc.) wrote an article on the
death of Mansfield.  It was published in a short-lived(unfortunately) CW
newpaper "The CW Brigadier".  I have gotten permission from Al and the
Brigadier to post that article on this list.  The only problem is when it was
transferred to me - the margins went crazy and I never got around to
correcting it.  So I am going to work on that.  I am also busy over the
weekend.  So I will try and work on it next week and post as soon as I can.

Paula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


> Ron,
>
> The XII Corps was largely composed of  nine month regiments which
> had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
> Maryland.
>
> There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
> drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
> to load while fighting!!!!!!
>
> Your humble servant,
> Gerry Mayers
> Pvt., CS Signals,
> Longstreet's Corps

Gerry,

All true.  It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
commander either.

Ron

Paula,

While I think I might have read it originally on another forum
which you and I once belonged to, I think it would certainly be
of good use to the present forum.

What I find so interesting is that, even though the mortuary
cannon and the Mansfield monument are relatively close to each
other, the locations they give for the mortal wounding of
Mansfield very quite widely.

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Pvt., CS Signals,
Longstreet's Corps

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: <Pa128th@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:44 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route/death


> Several years ago Al Gambone (author of several books on
Generals from the
> Norristown, Pa area, Hancock, Zook, Hartranft, etc.) wrote an
article on the
> death of Mansfield.  It was published in a
short-lived(unfortunately) CW
> newpaper "The CW Brigadier".  I have gotten permission from Al
and the
> Brigadier to post that article on this list.  The only problem
is when it was
> transferred to me - the margins went crazy and I never got
around to
> correcting it.  So I am going to work on that.  I am also busy
over the
> weekend.  So I will try and work on it next week and post as
soon as I can.
>
> Paula
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/GmiolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
------~->
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

In a message dated 7/11/02 8:58:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gerry1952@... writes:


> While I think I might have read it originally on another forum
> which you and I once belonged to, I think it would certainly be
> of good use to the present forum.
>
> What I find so interesting is that, even though the mortuary
> cannon and the Mansfield monument are relatively close to each
> other, the locations they give for the mortal wounding of
> Mansfield very quite widely.
>

Gerry:

I believe this difference is because while wounded, Mansfield is going back
and forth among his troops.  Everyone thinking that Mansfield is shot while
deploying them.  There is some correspondence I came across awhile back
between the 10th Me and IIRC the 125th Pa - each claiming that Mansfield was
wounded while with their respective units.  I am not clear on all the
particulars, but it was something in that vein.

I will try and fix up the article's margins and post it here next week.

Paula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I believe this difference is because while wounded, Mansfield is going back
> and forth among his troops.  Everyone thinking that Mansfield is shot while
> deploying them.  There is some correspondence I came across awhile back
> between the 10th Me and IIRC the 125th Pa - each claiming that Mansfield was
>
> wounded while with their respective units.  I am not clear on all the
> particulars, but it was something in that vein.
>
> I will try and fix up the article's margins and post it here next week.
>
> Paula


Paula,

It does make sense that if he was in motion all the while, deploying his
troops, that the actual location would be very difficult to pin down.  Over
time I've happened across several different versions of the Mansfield story.
One has him bleeding almost to death in the saddle, another has him taking 3
balls in the chest simultaneously and falling forward so that his horse comes
down on him. Maybe the article you have can shed some light on it.  At any
rate, I very much appreciate you putting it up.  Thank you.

Ron Church
Manchester MD

Ron,

Are you the Ron Church who once was a member of the 14th Tennessee?

Kevin Rawlings

Kevin,

No, that's not me.  Have never done any reenacting.

Ron Church
Manchester MD


> Ron,
>
> Are you the Ron Church who once was a member of the 14th Tennessee?
>
> Kevin Rawlings

McAfee.com Dispatch - VIRUS ALERT
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Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: VIRUS ALERT - W32/Klez.h@MM




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some may be interested in the book that I am going to begin reading
tomorrow:

Manifest Destiny's Underworld: Filibustering in Antebellum America by Robert
E. May

I have not begun reading this but I know the professor very well - he's my
advisor - and have read all of his other books.  The book will probably
touch on the colonization theory of the south to push towards taking Cuba
(from the British), Nicaragua, and the such.  His other book, John A.
Quitman: Old South Crusader, looked at the radical Quitman in Mississippi
and his roll in secession and "filibustering" activities.  Just from
glances, Manifest Destiny's Underworld looks pretty interesting. Anyone up
for reading and discussing it?

Ray

If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
War and earned three brevets.

It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
made little or no attempt to give any information or
direction to the XII Corps commander.

TR Livesey

tlivesey@...
http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

Ron Church wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
>
> > Ron,
> >
> > The XII Corps was largely composed of  nine month regiments which
> > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
> > Maryland.
> >
> > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
> > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
> > to load while fighting!!!!!!
> >
> > Your humble servant,
> > Gerry Mayers
> > Pvt., CS Signals,
> > Longstreet's Corps
>
> Gerry,
>
> All true.  It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
> commander either.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yes, I was referring to Mansfield, but not disparagingly.  I am aware of
some of his accomplishments.  Actually my wording was perhaps a poor attempt
at a touch of lightness on a very unfortunate incident.

Ron Church
Manchester MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "TR Livesey" <tlivesey@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


> If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
> problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
> training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
> in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
> War and earned three brevets.
>
> It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
> enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
> most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
> a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
> made little or no attempt to give any information or
> direction to the XII Corps commander.
>
> TR Livesey
>
> tlivesey@...
> http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
>
> Ron Church wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
> >
> > > Ron,
> > >
> > > The XII Corps was largely composed of  nine month regiments which
> > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
> > > Maryland.
> > >
> > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
> > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
> > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
> > >
> > > Your humble servant,
> > > Gerry Mayers
> > > Pvt., CS Signals,
> > > Longstreet's Corps
> >
> > Gerry,
> >
> > All true.  It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
> > commander either.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a mission to clear Mansfield's
name...in the end, performance has to be about the most
important factor in any commander's assessment, and Mansfield's
short performance at Antietam is hardly likely to earn much
praise. The truth is, however, that he walked onto his first
ACW battlefield with much more experience than did many other
fellow officers.

Regards,

TR Livesey
tlivesey@...
http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

Ron Church wrote:
>
> Yes, I was referring to Mansfield, but not disparagingly.  I am aware of
> some of his accomplishments.  Actually my wording was perhaps a poor attempt
> at a touch of lightness on a very unfortunate incident.
>
> Ron Church
> Manchester MD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TR Livesey" <tlivesey@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
>
> > If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
> > problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
> > training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
> > in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
> > War and earned three brevets.
> >
> > It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
> > enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
> > most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
> > a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
> > made little or no attempt to give any information or
> > direction to the XII Corps commander.
> >
> > TR Livesey
> >
> > tlivesey@...
> > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
> >
> > Ron Church wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
> > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
> > >
> > > > Ron,
> > > >
> > > > The XII Corps was largely composed of  nine month regiments which
> > > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
> > > > Maryland.
> > > >
> > > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
> > > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
> > > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Your humble servant,
> > > > Gerry Mayers
> > > > Pvt., CS Signals,
> > > > Longstreet's Corps
> > >
> > > Gerry,
> > >
> > > All true.  It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
> > > commander either.
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Todd, Paula, Ron and all,

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Pvt., CS Signals,
Longstreet's Corps

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "TR Livesey" <tlivesey@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


> If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
> problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
> training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
> in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
> War and earned three brevets.
>
> It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
> enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
> most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
> a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
> made little or no attempt to give any information or
> direction to the XII Corps commander.
>
> TR Livesey
>
> tlivesey@...
> http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
>
> Ron Church wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
> >
> > > Ron,
> > >
> > > The XII Corps was largely composed of  nine month regiments
which
> > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
> > > Maryland.
> > >
> > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be
properly
> > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn
how
> > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
> > >
> > > Your humble servant,
> > > Gerry Mayers
> > > Pvt., CS Signals,
> > > Longstreet's Corps
> >
> > Gerry,
> >
> > All true.  It might also be said there wasn't enough time to
train their
> > commander either.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
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