Hi Tom:

Funny you should ask, I was driving over that road during the Maryland My
Maryland event a couple weeks ago,and was wondering the exact same thing. It
is  certainly too narrow to have been built for two lane traffic, and it
looks jut  like the other ones.
But I do not recall  reading any reports of fording the Little  Antietam.
One of the Union Corps, I think it was the 6th, but maybe the 2nd,  split
up and some went over the middle bridge and some waded the creek. But no
mention of the Little Antietam.

BTW I have not forgotten, I will send you the transcripts of the 49th
letters when I get to them. The event had me more than a little busy for several
  weeks, and I am catching up on other things.

Mike Lavis


In a message dated 9/21/2012 12:20:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
RoteBaron@... writes:






Does anyone know if the small arched bridge over Little Antietam  Creek (on
Keedyville Roa d that leads to Upper Bridge) existed during the  battle?

I asked several people at the park last weekend and got  various answers.

Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message  have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CC maps seem to show a bridge as does 1893 Antietam Board map and the Official
Atlas. Haven't found a map yet that shows "ford" at that location but rather
indications that it is a bridge. 



________________________________
  From: "RoteBaron@..." <RoteBaron@...>
To: TalkAntietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:20 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek



 



Does anyone know if the small arched bridge over Little Antietam Creek (on
Keedyville Roa d that leads to Upper Bridge) existed during the battle?

I asked several people at the park last weekend and got various answers.

Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Guys,

I have a post on my blog, South From the North Woods regarding this bridge
here.  It says "Located not far from the Hitt Bridge is the Pry’s Mill
Bridge.  George
Burgan built this two-arch bridge for $1,650 in 1858. Its cutwaters, the
upstream pier bulwarks designed to divide the current and break up ice
flows and log jams, are unique in that they are shaped like the prows of ships.
Both grist and sawmills operated at nearby Samuel Pry’s Mill.
The wings and parapet of the bridge were rebuilt in the twentieth
century.  Like the nearby Hitt Bridge, Hooker’s Corps also used this
bridge to cross the Little Antietam on its way to the battlefield."

________________________________
  From: Larry Freiheit <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek


 
CC maps seem to show a bridge as does 1893 Antietam Board map and the Official
Atlas. Haven't found a map yet that shows "ford" at that location but rather
indications that it is a bridge. 

________________________________
From: "RoteBaron@..." <RoteBaron@...>
To: TalkAntietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:20 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek


 


Does anyone know if the small arched bridge over Little Antietam Creek (on
Keedyville Roa d that leads to Upper Bridge) existed during the battle?

I asked several people at the park last weekend and got various answers.

Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IIRC there is a place not far from the bridge that can be forded. Tom Clemens
led a group of us there back in 2001 in the old ADG...

   -----Original Message-----
   From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Larry Freiheit
   Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:42 PM
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek



   CC maps seem to show a bridge as does 1893 Antietam Board map and the Official
Atlas. Haven't found a map yet that shows "ford" at that location but rather
indications that it is a bridge.

   ________________________________
   From: "RoteBaron@..." <RoteBaron@...>
   To: TalkAntietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:20 PM
   Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek





   Does anyone know if the small arched bridge over Little Antietam Creek (on
Keedyville Roa d that leads to Upper Bridge) existed during the battle?

   I asked several people at the park last weekend and got various answers.

   Tom Shay

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim,

Many thanks! That’s probably the best response in favor of the bridge being
there in 1862. Excellent.

Tom Shay

From: Jim Rosebrock
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:56 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek


Guys,

I have a post on my blog, South From the North Woods regarding this bridge here.
It says "Located not far from the Hitt Bridge is the Pry’s Mill Bridge. George
Burgan built this two-arch bridge for $1,650 in 1858. Its cutwaters, the
upstream pier bulwarks designed to divide the current and break up ice
flows and log jams, are unique in that they are shaped like the prows of ships.
Both grist and sawmills operated at nearby Samuel Pry’s Mill.
The wings and parapet of the bridge were rebuilt in the twentieth
century. Like the nearby Hitt Bridge, Hooker’s Corps also used this
bridge to cross the Little Antietam on its way to the battlefield."








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your welcome Tom.
Jim




________________________________
  From: RoteBaron <RoteBaron@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek


 
Jim,

Many thanks! That’s probably the best response in favor of the bridge being
there in 1862. Excellent.

Tom Shay

From: Jim Rosebrock
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:56 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek

Guys,

I have a post on my blog, South From the North Woods regarding this bridge here.
It says "Located not far from the Hitt Bridge is the Pry’s Mill Bridge. George
Burgan built this two-arch bridge for $1,650 in 1858. Its cutwaters, the
upstream pier bulwarks designed to divide the current and break up ice
flows and log jams, are unique in that they are shaped like the prows of ships.
Both grist and sawmills operated at nearby Samuel Pry’s Mill.
The wings and parapet of the bridge were rebuilt in the twentieth
century. Like the nearby Hitt Bridge, Hooker’s Corps also used this
bridge to cross the Little Antietam on its way to the battlefield."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are there are accounts regarding how AP Hill became aware of Miller’s Sawmill
Road being the most advantageous route from the ford?
He certainly didn’t send his men on that route without prior knowledge as to
where it led.

Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That bridge was definitely there during the war. There is a smaller ford
upstream a few hundred yards but the main ford near that bridge would have
been at the Pry Mill. The ford is located just downstream from where the
smaller feeder creek empties into the Antietam Creek.

Ian

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Your welcome Tom.
> Jim
>
> ________________________________
> From: RoteBaron <RoteBaron@...>
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek
>
>
>
> Jim,
>
> Many thanks! That’s probably the best response in favor of the bridge
> being there in 1862. Excellent.
>
> Tom Shay
>
> From: Jim Rosebrock
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:56 PM
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bridge over Little Antietam Creek
>
> Guys,
>
> I have a post on my blog, South From the North Woods regarding this bridge
> here. It says "Located not far from the Hitt Bridge is the Pry’s Mill
> Bridge. George
> Burgan built this two-arch bridge for $1,650 in 1858. Its cutwaters, the
> upstream pier bulwarks designed to divide the current and break up ice
> flows and log jams, are unique in that they are shaped like the prows of
> ships. Both grist and sawmills operated at nearby Samuel Pry’s Mill.
> The wings and parapet of the bridge were rebuilt in the twentieth
> century. Like the nearby Hitt Bridge, Hooker’s Corps also used this
> bridge to cross the Little Antietam on its way to the battlefield."
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you are in the area just give me shout. I'd be happy to show you around
that area. There was a large camp up on the bluffs following the Gettysburg
Campaign as well.

Ian

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:25 AM, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Ian,
>
> I live in NJ about four hours away.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ian Workman
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:11 AM
> > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> >
> >
> > I meant Gerry. Are you local? There was a very large
> > Texas camp in the
> > vicinity of the caves that was found many years ago.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:26 PM, G E Mayers
> > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Ian;
> > >
> > > This is Gerry, not Steve.
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Ian Workman
> > > > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 9:24 PM
> > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > You can reach it on foot but the best way is by bike.
> > > > I think the quickest
> > > > way to get to it is from Snyder's landing. If you ever
> > > > want to see it, I'd
> > > > be happy to bike along.
> > > >
> > > > The ride isn't that bad at all.
> > > >
> > > > Ian
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM, G E Mayers
> > > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian;
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks! Can the cave be reached on foot or ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > > > Ian Workman
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 11:16 AM
> > > > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Killiansburg Cave has what appears to have two
> > > > > > openings. The one on the
> > > > > > right is the one that you would want to go into. It is
> > > > > > much smaller than it
> > > > > > used to be. Parts of it collapsed and you can no
> > > > > > longer scale the chimney
> > > > > > to the upper window. It is also full of dirt so the
> > > > > > entrance is much
> > > > > > smaller. There is a larger overhang towards
> > > > > > Shepherdstown that is thought
> > > > > > to have been used as well. All of these pieces are on
> > > > > > NPS land. You can see
> > > > > > the markers punched into the tops of the cliffs above
> > > > > > on both of them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:26 PM, G E Mayers
> > > > > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks, Steve!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is also possible the cave was a little bit larger
> > > > > > 150 years ago...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will pass the information along to my friend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gerry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of cowie_steve
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:16 PM
> > > > > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gerry,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I visited Killiansburg Cave a couple years ago and
> > > > > > it was in good
> > > > > > > condition, albeit much smaller than Schell's
> > > > > > rendition. It's located off
> > > > > > > the C & O towpath a couple miles south of the
> > > > > > parking area at the Snyder's
> > > > > > > Landing Road boat launch. I failed to log the exact
> > > > > > milepost but it was
> > > > > > > somewhere between 75.3-75.7. After walking a mile or
> > > > > > so from the parking
> > > > > > > area you'll first pass the smaller Sharpsburg
> > > > > > Landing Cave, which is
> > > > > > > commonly mistaken for Killiansburg Cave. Continue
> > > > > > for roughly another mile
> > > > > > > and the much larger Killiansburg Cave will be on
> > > > > > your left, about 20 yards
> > > > > > > above the towpath. Depending on the time of year it
> > > > > > can be hard to see;
> > > > > > > it's also a steep and slippery approach so good
> > > > > > footwear is advised. I've
> > > > > > > heard mixed rumors that it's located on private
> > > > > > property, so your friend
> > > > > > > might want to look into this before climbing up
> > > > to the cave.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers"
> > > > > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gang,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The artist and correspondent H F Schell did a
> > > > > > sketch of Killing's Cave
> > > > > > > around the time of the battle.When it appeared in
> > > > > > the papers, the sketch
> > > > > > > was titled "Killing's Cave, on the Banks of the
> > > > > > Potomac, Near Sharpsburg,
> > > > > > > MD, Used as a Place of Safety During the Battle
> > > > of Antietam."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A friend of mine was asking me where the cave was,
> > > > > > if it can be visited
> > > > > > > today and what condition the cave is in.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If anyone can help, it would be much appreciated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
> > > > > > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act
> > > > > > exactly contrary, at
> > > > > > > one period, to that which it does at another, and
> > > > > > the motive which impels
> > > > > > > them--the desire to do right--is precisely the same.
> > > > > > The circumstances
> > > > > > > which govern their actions change; and their conduct
> > > > > > must conform to the
> > > > > > > new order of things." -- Robert E. Lee
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
> > been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

I was just discussing this today with Stephen. The Confederate troops had
quite a few locals with them from the Virginia regiments. I would assume
people like Henry Kyd Douglas would have mentioned the ford and road to
Jackson. They didn't cross at the Antietam ford due to it possibly being
guarded. The main force crossed at Blackford's Ford but there evidence of
some of the Confederates crossing at the Miller's Sawmill Ford which is
just upstream from the road. At one time there was a lot of stuff found
along the banks (Virginia side) along that particular route. It would make
sense that they would cross there due to Blackford's Ford being
approximately 1 mile upstream and 1 mile back downstream. If you think
about it, this would take a considerable amount of time to travel to the
main ford.

After the battle there were Confederate units watching the Miller's Sawmill
ford as well as the Antietam Ford. The Antietam ford is just downstream
from the mouth  of the Antietam and runs at an angle following the current
towards the bottom of Knott's Island. There were some artillery shells
fired at the Confederate Cavalry overlooking the Antietam ford. As of yet I
haven't found where that spot was.

Ian

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 2:26 PM, RoteBaron <RoteBaron@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Are there are accounts regarding how AP Hill became aware of Miller’s
> Sawmill Road being the most advantageous route from the ford?
> He certainly didn’t send his men on that route without prior knowledge as
> to where it led.
>
> Tom Shay
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, all.

This may be a smidge off-topic, but here goes:

On the West Virginia side of the Potomac, just as you come around the bend at
the bottom of the hill on River Road (when traveling towards Pack Horse Ford
from Shepherdstown), there's a gravel road called Teague Run Road and it goeas
nearly straight up the bluffs. At the top of the bluffs in a small clearing,
there is a little wooden house. According to friends who rented on that property
the house dates back to pre-Revolutionary days, and was supposedly damaged by
federal artillery during the battle of Shepherdstown. I was only able to see the
interior of the house once, but there was a cannon ball sitting on the mantel
that looked decidedly like round shot to me, and supposedly that had been picked
up near the front door, having passed through the house.

Does anyone know any more information about this house? For anyone familiar with
the property, when you get to the top of Teauge Run Rd., there is a pair of
stone pillars and a trailer home, with the house in question off to your left,
immediately overlooking the river.

Thanks, all!

- Adam Zimmerli

Adam,

I don't think that is the original house. There was an early house there at
one time but during the battle there was a Confederate artillery battery
where the house was. They were firing Mullane shells at the opposing
federal artillery placed on the long hill known as Ferry Hill. The Federal
artillery was firing back and several shells fell into the river and
slammed into that hillside just below the (Oakley ? spelling may be
incorrect) house. There was also a Confederate battery located to the west
of River Road on the bluffs where Bill Lukens lives today. All of these
positions were firing on Pleasanton's Batteries. From what I have found it
appears they unlimbered quite a ways back from the river on the Maryland
side and worked their way forward. This kept them from being shelled by the
Confederate long range artillery on the Va. side. It is important to note
that the Federal artillery did load up some dropped Confederate artillery
shells and fired them into the bluffs.

The types of shells found in this area are predominately fired from the 3"
Ordnance Rifle with some fired from the Howitzers These shells include the
following:

2.9" Dyer Shells (both case and shell/ and both rounded and pointed nose
variations)
2.9" Hotchkiss Shells (both case and shell)
2.9" Schenkl Shells (shells only)
2.9" CS Archer Shells with wood fuses
12lb  Spherical Solid Shot
12lb Spherical Case and Shell
24lb Spherical Case and Shell


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ian,

That is good to know but I can not say when or if I will be in the area of
Sharpsburg any time soon.

Gerry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ian Workman
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:22 PM
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
>
>
> If you are in the area just give me shout. I'd be
> happy to show you around
> that area. There was a large camp up on the bluffs
> following the Gettysburg
> Campaign as well.
>
> Ian
>
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:25 AM, G E Mayers
> <gerry1952@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Ian,
> >
> > I live in NJ about four hours away.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Ian Workman
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:11 AM
> > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > >
> > >
> > > I meant Gerry. Are you local? There was a very large
> > > Texas camp in the
> > > vicinity of the caves that was found many years ago.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:26 PM, G E Mayers
> > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ian;
> > > >
> > > > This is Gerry, not Steve.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > > Ian Workman
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 9:24 PM
> > > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > >
> > > > > You can reach it on foot but the best way is by bike.
> > > > > I think the quickest
> > > > > way to get to it is from Snyder's landing. If you ever
> > > > > want to see it, I'd
> > > > > be happy to bike along.
> > > > >
> > > > > The ride isn't that bad at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM, G E Mayers
> > > > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ian;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks! Can the cave be reached on foot or ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > > > > Ian Workman
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 11:16 AM
> > > > > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Killiansburg Cave has what appears to have two
> > > > > > > openings. The one on the
> > > > > > > right is the one that you would want to go
> into. It is
> > > > > > > much smaller than it
> > > > > > > used to be. Parts of it collapsed and you can no
> > > > > > > longer scale the chimney
> > > > > > > to the upper window. It is also full of dirt so the
> > > > > > > entrance is much
> > > > > > > smaller. There is a larger overhang towards
> > > > > > > Shepherdstown that is thought
> > > > > > > to have been used as well. All of these
> pieces are on
> > > > > > > NPS land. You can see
> > > > > > > the markers punched into the tops of the
> cliffs above
> > > > > > > on both of them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:26 PM, G E Mayers
> > > > > > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks, Steve!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is also possible the cave was a
> little bit larger
> > > > > > > 150 years ago...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I will pass the information along to my friend.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gerry
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
> > > > > > > > Behalf Of cowie_steve
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:16 PM
> > > > > > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Killing's Cave
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gerry,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I visited Killiansburg Cave a couple
> years ago and
> > > > > > > it was in good
> > > > > > > > condition, albeit much smaller than Schell's
> > > > > > > rendition. It's located off
> > > > > > > > the C & O towpath a couple miles south of the
> > > > > > > parking area at the Snyder's
> > > > > > > > Landing Road boat launch. I failed to
> log the exact
> > > > > > > milepost but it was
> > > > > > > > somewhere between 75.3-75.7. After
> walking a mile or
> > > > > > > so from the parking
> > > > > > > > area you'll first pass the smaller Sharpsburg
> > > > > > > Landing Cave, which is
> > > > > > > > commonly mistaken for Killiansburg Cave. Continue
> > > > > > > for roughly another mile
> > > > > > > > and the much larger Killiansburg Cave will be on
> > > > > > > your left, about 20 yards
> > > > > > > > above the towpath. Depending on the time
> of year it
> > > > > > > can be hard to see;
> > > > > > > > it's also a steep and slippery approach so good
> > > > > > > footwear is advised. I've
> > > > > > > > heard mixed rumors that it's located on private
> > > > > > > property, so your friend
> > > > > > > > might want to look into this before climbing up
> > > > > to the cave.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Steve
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers"
> > > > > > > <gerry1952@...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Gang,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The artist and correspondent H F Schell did a
> > > > > > > sketch of Killing's Cave
> > > > > > > > around the time of the battle.When it appeared in
> > > > > > > the papers, the sketch
> > > > > > > > was titled "Killing's Cave, on the Banks of the
> > > > > > > Potomac, Near Sharpsburg,
> > > > > > > > MD, Used as a Place of Safety During the Battle
> > > > > of Antietam."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A friend of mine was asking me where
> the cave was,
> > > > > > > if it can be visited
> > > > > > > > today and what condition the cave is in.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If anyone can help, it would be much
> appreciated.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
> > > > > > > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "True patriotism sometimes requires of
> men to act
> > > > > > > exactly contrary, at
> > > > > > > > one period, to that which it does at another, and
> > > > > > > the motive which impels
> > > > > > > > them--the desire to do right--is
> precisely the same.
> > > > > > > The circumstances
> > > > > > > > which govern their actions change; and
> their conduct
> > > > > > > must conform to the
> > > > > > > > new order of things." -- Robert E. Lee
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
> > > been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
> been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
> been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Ian
 
Maybe this fall we could bike to both the caves and the fords downstream? Maybe
start at the parking lot at the Shepherdstown bridge on the Maryland side and
first do the fords.
 
Larry


________________________________
  From: Ian Workman <cwdigger@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] How AP Hill knew of Miller's Sawmill Road?

Tom,

I was just discussing this today with Stephen. The Confederate troops had
quite a few locals with them from the Virginia regiments. I would assume
people like Henry Kyd Douglas would have mentioned the ford and road to
Jackson. They didn't cross at the Antietam ford due to it possibly being
guarded. The main force crossed at Blackford's Ford but there evidence of
some of the Confederates crossing at the Miller's Sawmill Ford which is
just upstream from the road. At one time there was a lot of stuff found
along the banks (Virginia side) along that particular route. It would make
sense that they would cross there due to Blackford's Ford being
approximately 1 mile upstream and 1 mile back downstream. If you think
about it, this would take a considerable amount of time to travel to the
main ford.

After the battle there were Confederate units watching the Miller's Sawmill
ford as well as the Antietam Ford. The Antietam ford is just downstream
from the mouth  of the Antietam and runs at an angle following the current
towards the bottom of Knott's Island. There were some artillery shells
fired at the Confederate Cavalry overlooking the Antietam ford. As of yet I
haven't found where that spot was.

Ian

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 2:26 PM, RoteBaron <RoteBaron@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Are there are accounts regarding how AP Hill became aware of Miller’s
> Sawmill Road being the most advantageous route from the ford?
> He certainly didn’t send his men on that route without prior knowledge as
> to where it led.
>
> Tom Shay
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------


Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry,

If you both do that, you will probably need your waders to cross from Maryland
to Virginia (West Virginia).

The novel is doing fairly well for initial sales... and is out on Kindle, iTunes
and Nook....

Gerry

   -----Original Message-----
   From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Larry Freiheit
   Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 7:13 PM
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] How AP Hill knew of Miller's Sawmill Road?



   Ian

   Maybe this fall we could bike to both the caves and the fords downstream?
Maybe start at the parking lot at the Shepherdstown bridge on the Maryland side
and first do the fords.

   Larry


   ________________________________
   From: Ian Workman <cwdigger@...>
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] How AP Hill knew of Miller's Sawmill Road?

   Tom,

   I was just discussing this today with Stephen. The Confederate troops had
   quite a few locals with them from the Virginia regiments. I would assume
   people like Henry Kyd Douglas would have mentioned the ford and road to
   Jackson. They didn't cross at the Antietam ford due to it possibly being
   guarded. The main force crossed at Blackford's Ford but there evidence of
   some of the Confederates crossing at the Miller's Sawmill Ford which is
   just upstream from the road. At one time there was a lot of stuff found
   along the banks (Virginia side) along that particular route. It would make
   sense that they would cross there due to Blackford's Ford being
   approximately 1 mile upstream and 1 mile back downstream. If you think
   about it, this would take a considerable amount of time to travel to the
   main ford.

   After the battle there were Confederate units watching the Miller's Sawmill
   ford as well as the Antietam Ford. The Antietam ford is just downstream
   from the mouth  of the Antietam and runs at an angle following the current
   towards the bottom of Knott's Island. There were some artillery shells
   fired at the Confederate Cavalry overlooking the Antietam ford. As of yet I
   haven't found where that spot was.

   Ian

   On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 2:26 PM, RoteBaron <RoteBaron@...> wrote:

   > **
   >
   >
   > Are there are accounts regarding how AP Hill became aware of Miller’s
   > Sawmill Road being the most advantageous route from the ford?
   > He certainly didn’t send his men on that route without prior knowledge as
   > to where it led.
   >
   > Tom Shay
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry,

I'd but up for that. Just let me know when.

Ian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Ian
 
I'll be in touch likely early November.
 
Larry


________________________________
  From: Ian Workman <cwdigger@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] How AP Hill knew of Miller's Sawmill Road?



 

Larry,

I'd but up for that. Just let me know when.

Ian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ian
 
How about Nov. 14?
Larry


________________________________
  From: Ian Workman <cwdigger@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] How AP Hill knew of Miller's Sawmill Road?



 

Larry,

I'd but up for that. Just let me know when.

Ian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone know if Robert Francis Beckham USMA 1859 was at Antietam?  He
replaced John Pelham as the commander of Stuart's Horse Artillery upon Pelham's
death in the spring of 1863.  I know he was on G.W. Smith's staff with the rank
of major in the summer of 1862 and have a vague reference that he served as the
ordnance officer of an infantry division afterward.  Any information is
appreciated.

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Confederate Colonels" Allardice: "Robert Franklin Beckham...ADC on Gen. G.W.
Smith's staff, 1861-1862. Elected capt., Jeff Davis Art., March 31, 1862, but
did not accept. Major of ordnance to Gen. G.W. Smith, Aug. 16, 1862....
Looks like he was with Smith and therefore not in the Maryland Campaign.


________________________________
  From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@...>
To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 6:37 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Robert Francis Beckham



 

Does anyone know if Robert Francis Beckham USMA 1859 was at Antietam?  He
replaced John Pelham as the commander of Stuart's Horse Artillery upon Pelham's
death in the spring of 1863.  I know he was on G.W. Smith's staff with the rank
of major in the summer of 1862 and have a vague reference that he served as the
ordnance officer of an infantry division afterward.  Any information is
appreciated.

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Larry. 

Jim



________________________________
  From: Larry Freiheit <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Robert Francis Beckham


 
"Confederate Colonels" Allardice: "Robert Franklin Beckham...ADC on Gen. G.W.
Smith's staff, 1861-1862. Elected capt., Jeff Davis Art., March 31, 1862, but
did not accept. Major of ordnance to Gen. G.W. Smith, Aug. 16, 1862....
Looks like he was with Smith and therefore not in the Maryland Campaign.


________________________________
From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@...>
To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 6:37 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Robert Francis Beckham


 

Does anyone know if Robert Francis Beckham USMA 1859 was at Antietam?  He
replaced John Pelham as the commander of Stuart's Horse Artillery upon Pelham's
death in the spring of 1863.  I know he was on G.W. Smith's staff with the rank
of major in the summer of 1862 and have a vague reference that he served as the
ordnance officer of an infantry division afterward.  Any information is
appreciated.

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Henry B. Schroeder from Petersville Maryland in Frederick
County was a graduate of the West Point Class of 1844.  He ranked 22 of 25 in
the West Point
class of 1844.  Classmates included
Winfield Scott Hancock and Alfred Pleasonton.  An officer of the 3rd Infantry,
he fought in
Mexico and was brevetted First Lieutenant., on August 20, 1847, for
Gallant and Meritorious Conduct  in
the Battles of Contreras and Churubusco.  Schroeder was a Captain in the 3rd
Infantry when he resigned
from the Army on May 31, 1861 apparently for his southern sympathies.  He did
not join the Confederate Army
instead returning to Peterville Maryland where he operated  a farm.  The
Brunswick Herald which reported his obituary said that he lived there the
remainder of his life
passing away on December 21 1904 at the age of 83.  Do any  of you
know if Schroeder played any role one way or the other during the Maryland
Campaign.  Surely an officer of
that seniority must have been known known by fellow West Pointers serving on
both sides.

Thanks
Jim Rosebrock


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim;

An interesting story. Odd that someone of such strong Southern sensibilities
would resign but would not then join the ranks of the Confederate service! I
wonder how many officers there might have been like him who resigned their US
Army commissions but remained entirely neutral?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

"True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one
period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them--the
desire to do right--is precisely the same. The circumstances which govern their
actions change; and their conduct must conform to the new order of things." --
Robert E. Lee



   -----Original Message-----
   From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Jim Rosebrock
   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 4:25 PM
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [TalkAntietam] Henry B. Schroeder




   Henry B. Schroeder from Petersville Maryland in Frederick
   County was a graduate of the West Point Class of 1844.  He ranked 22 of 25 in
the West Point
   class of 1844.  Classmates included
   Winfield Scott Hancock and Alfred Pleasonton.  An officer of the 3rd Infantry,
he fought in
   Mexico and was brevetted First Lieutenant., on August 20, 1847, for
   Gallant and Meritorious Conduct  in
   the Battles of Contreras and Churubusco.  Schroeder was a Captain in the 3rd
Infantry when he resigned
   from the Army on May 31, 1861 apparently for his southern sympathies.  He did
not join the Confederate Army
   instead returning to Peterville Maryland where he operated  a farm.  The
Brunswick Herald which reported his obituary said that he lived there the
remainder of his life
   passing away on December 21 1904 at the age of 83.  Do any  of you
   know if Schroeder played any role one way or the other during the Maryland
   Campaign.  Surely an officer of
   that seniority must have been known known by fellow West Pointers serving on
   both sides.

   Thanks
   Jim Rosebrock

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gerry,
When I discovered him in Cullem's Register, I found he lived less than 15 miles
from Sharpsburg yet there was no apparent action on his part.  I hope to learn
more about him and will share anything that I learn.
Warm Regards
Jim



________________________________
  From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Henry B. Schroeder


 
Jim;

An interesting story. Odd that someone of such strong Southern sensibilities
would resign but would not then join the ranks of the Confederate service! I
wonder how many officers there might have been like him who resigned their US
Army commissions but remained entirely neutral?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

"True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one
period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them--the
desire to do right--is precisely the same. The circumstances which govern their
actions change; and their conduct must conform to the new order of things." --
Robert E. Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Jim Rosebrock
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 4:25 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Henry B. Schroeder

Henry B. Schroeder from Petersville Maryland in Frederick
County was a graduate of the West Point Class of 1844.  He ranked 22 of 25 in
the West Point
class of 1844.  Classmates included
Winfield Scott Hancock and Alfred Pleasonton.  An officer of the 3rd Infantry,
he fought in
Mexico and was brevetted First Lieutenant., on August 20, 1847, for
Gallant and Meritorious Conduct  in
the Battles of Contreras and Churubusco.  Schroeder was a Captain in the 3rd
Infantry when he resigned
from the Army on May 31, 1861 apparently for his southern sympathies.  He did
not join the Confederate Army
instead returning to Peterville Maryland where he operated  a farm.  The
Brunswick Herald which reported his obituary said that he lived there the
remainder of his life
passing away on December 21 1904 at the age of 83.  Do any  of you
know if Schroeder played any role one way or the other during the Maryland
Campaign.  Surely an officer of
that seniority must have been known known by fellow West Pointers serving on
both sides.

Thanks
Jim Rosebrock

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There were, I suspect, a number. One I can think of include Henry Scott,
author of the 1860 Military Dictionary and son-in-law of Winfield
(Cullum 747). Henry served in effect as Winfield Scott's chief of Staff
from 1842 to 1861. He retired in October 1861 and was on leave of
absence -- in Europe -- from October 1861 to October 31, 1862 -- which
date he resigned his commission and gave up his pension. I wonder what
his father-in-law thought about that?

Take care,

Bob

Judy and Bob Huddleston
10643 Sperry Street
Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
Huddleston.r@...

"The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are
insane." ---Mark Twain

On 10/8/2012 4:49 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
> Jim;
>
> An interesting story. Odd that someone of such strong Southern
> sensibilities would resign but would not then join the ranks of the
> Confederate service! I wonder how many officers there might have been
> like him who resigned their US Army commissions but remained entirely
> neutral?
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
> "True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at
> one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which
> impels them--the desire to do right--is precisely the same. The
> circumstances which govern their actions change; and their conduct must
> conform to the new order of things." -- Robert E. Lee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>]On Behalf Of Jim Rosebrock
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 4:25 PM
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Henry B. Schroeder
>
> Henry B. Schroeder from Petersville Maryland in Frederick
> County was a graduate of the West Point Class of 1844. He ranked 22 of
> 25 in the West Point
> class of 1844. Classmates included
> Winfield Scott Hancock and Alfred Pleasonton. An officer of the 3rd
> Infantry, he fought in
> Mexico and was brevetted First Lieutenant., on August 20, 1847, for
> Gallant and Meritorious Conduct in
> the Battles of Contreras and Churubusco. Schroeder was a Captain in the
> 3rd Infantry when he resigned
> from the Army on May 31, 1861 apparently for his southern sympathies. He
> did not join the Confederate Army
> instead returning to Peterville Maryland where he operated a farm. The
> Brunswick Herald which reported his obituary said that he lived there
> the remainder of his life
> passing away on December 21 1904 at the age of 83. Do any of you
> know if Schroeder played any role one way or the other during the Maryland
> Campaign. Surely an officer of
> that seniority must have been known known by fellow West Pointers serving on
> both sides.
>
> Thanks
> Jim Rosebrock
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Hi,

I received my copy on Friday, and right now am a little overwhelmed. I’m not
sure if any campaign of the Civil War has received this kind of treatment.
Really something. First thing I checked was SO 191, and really nice to see
everything make sense for once, though I think he soft-pedals the time-line a
bit regarding when it was found and when it got to army HQ – definitely times
the Trophies telegram at 12 midnight of the 13th/14th.

655 pages of text, 794 total. But VERY READABLE!!! Bibliography is on-line at
www.mdhs.org/publications/resources.

Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harry,

We had some discussion of the 12M. time a few years back on here. Someone
claimed to have seen the original letter Mac wrote to be sent via telegraph and
that he wrote it at 12 noon not midnight....

Gerry

   -----Original Message-----
   From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Harry
   Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:40 PM
   To: Talk Antietam
   Subject: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig



   Hi,

   I received my copy on Friday, and right now am a little overwhelmed. I’m not
sure if any campaign of the Civil War has received this kind of treatment.
Really something. First thing I checked was SO 191, and really nice to see
everything make sense for once, though I think he soft-pedals the time-line a
bit regarding when it was found and when it got to army HQ – definitely times
the Trophies telegram at 12 midnight of the 13th/14th.

   655 pages of text, 794 total. But VERY READABLE!!! Bibliography is on-line at
www.mdhs.org/publications/resources.

   Harry

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh, I’m sure someone said that. Of course, there is one thing in that telegram
that indicates it could not have been written at 12 noon on the 13th, unless
there was wishful thinking involved...

From: G E Mayers
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:58 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig


Harry,

We had some discussion of the 12M. time a few years back on here. Someone
claimed to have seen the original letter Mac wrote to be sent via telegraph and
that he wrote it at 12 noon not midnight....

Gerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Harry
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:40 PM
To: Talk Antietam
Subject: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig

Hi,

I received my copy on Friday, and right now am a little overwhelmed. I’m not
sure if any campaign of the Civil War has received this kind of treatment.
Really something. First thing I checked was SO 191, and really nice to see
everything make sense for once, though I think he soft-pedals the time-line a
bit regarding when it was found and when it got to army HQ – definitely times
the Trophies telegram at 12 midnight of the 13th/14th.

655 pages of text, 794 total. But VERY READABLE!!! Bibliography is on-line at
www.mdhs.org/publications/resources.

Harry

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Ok. Fess up... what is in the telegram that proves it could not have been
written at 12 noon?

   -----Original Message-----
   From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Harry
   Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:03 PM
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig



   Oh, I’m sure someone said that. Of course, there is one thing in that
telegram that indicates it could not have been written at 12 noon on the 13th,
unless there was wishful thinking involved...

   From: G E Mayers
   Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:58 PM
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig

   Harry,

   We had some discussion of the 12M. time a few years back on here. Someone
claimed to have seen the original letter Mac wrote to be sent via telegraph and
that he wrote it at 12 noon not midnight....

   Gerry

   -----Original Message-----
   From: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Harry
   Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:40 PM
   To: Talk Antietam
   Subject: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig

   Hi,

   I received my copy on Friday, and right now am a little overwhelmed. I’m not
sure if any campaign of the Civil War has received this kind of treatment.
Really something. First thing I checked was SO 191, and really nice to see
everything make sense for once, though I think he soft-pedals the time-line a
bit regarding when it was found and when it got to army HQ – definitely times
the Trophies telegram at 12 midnight of the 13th/14th.

   655 pages of text, 794 total. But VERY READABLE!!! Bibliography is on-line at
www.mdhs.org/publications/resources.

   Harry

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What time did the Federal army get possession of Catoctin?

From: G E Mayers
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:06 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig


Ok. Fess up... what is in the telegram that proves it could not have been
written at 12 noon?

-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Harry
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:03 PM
To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig

Oh, I’m sure someone said that. Of course, there is one thing in that telegram
that indicates it could not have been written at 12 noon on the 13th, unless
there was wishful thinking involved...

From: G E Mayers
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:58 PM
To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig

Harry,

We had some discussion of the 12M. time a few years back on here. Someone
claimed to have seen the original letter Mac wrote to be sent via telegraph and
that he wrote it at 12 noon not midnight....

Gerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Harry
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:40 PM
To: Talk Antietam
Subject: [TalkAntietam] To Antietam Creek - Scott Hartwig

Hi,

I received my copy on Friday, and right now am a little overwhelmed. I’m not
sure if any campaign of the Civil War has received this kind of treatment.
Really something. First thing I checked was SO 191, and really nice to see
everything make sense for once, though I think he soft-pedals the time-line a
bit regarding when it was found and when it got to army HQ – definitely times
the Trophies telegram at 12 midnight of the 13th/14th.

655 pages of text, 794 total. But VERY READABLE!!! Bibliography is on-line at
www.mdhs.org/publications/resources.

Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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