Thanks!

Will do so  shortly per your request.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Supplemental OR question


Gerry

More or less; those regiments were not in the road but apparently
did play tangential roles before and after. PM me at
killsour@... with your mailing address and I will mail
photocopies of those pages.

Larry

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
wrote:
>
> Larry;
>
> Thanks! Do the ones that you mentioned as being relevant...are
> they specific to the Sunken Road?
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
> from
> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:19 AM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Supplemental OR question
>
>
> Gerry,
>
> The SORs are in three parts.
>
> Part I, vol. 3, pp. 568 et seq is a report by Col William
> Gibson
> of the 48th GA for Antietam for 16-17 Sept. The second
> reference
> is a report of Col. Stephen Decatur Thruston 3rd NC for
> Antietam
> for 13-18 Sept.
>
> Part II, vol. 3, and Part III vol. 3 pages referenced are
> irrelevant to Antietam.
>
> Larry F.

Does anyone know by which first name people addressed Napoleon Jackson
Tecumseh Dana? Any chance it was Charles? Thanks.

Stephen

He did have a son named Charles Peaslee Dana.
Source:  "Monterrey Is Ours: The Mexican War Letters of Lt. Dana"

Tom Shay

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Stephen Recker
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:45 PM
   Subject: [TalkAntietam] A general by any other name


     Does anyone know by which first name people addressed Napoleon Jackson
   Tecumseh Dana? Any chance it was Charles? Thanks.

   Stephen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

That is awesome. Thanks. Any chance that it says when Charles lived?

Stephen

On Friday, August 28, 2009, at 10:00  PM, RoteBaron wrote:

>  
> He did have a son named Charles Peaslee Dana.
> Source: "Monterrey Is Ours: The Mexican War Letters of Lt. Dana"
>
> Tom Shay


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephen,

You may have already seen this from Google Books, Harvard Register vol. 3 p. 54:

"1871. CHARLES PEASLEE DANA, a son of Major-General N. J. T. Dana, formerly of
the U. S. Army, died at Colorado Springs, Col, Oct. 14, 1880. After graduation
he studied law in San Francisco, Cal., for a short time, and in the spring of
1872 entered a business life in the iron mills. In San Francisco he attached
himself to the Pacific Rolling Mills, intending to follow the iron business for
life. He was subject, however, to great exposure in going to the mills, and in
the winter of 1873 suffered from an attack of pneumonia. This compelled him to
change his plans, and from San Francisco he went to Chicago, 111., and engaged
in the railroad business with his father in the office of the General
Superintendent of the Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroad. In the employ of
the same company he was afterwards located successively at Joliet, 111., Quincy.
111., and Council Bluffs, la. He then went to Omaha, Neb., where he again
suffered from pneumonia. Later he spent two years at Rock Island, 111., and in
1879 went to St. Louis, Mo., from there he removed to the plains for his health,
and thence to Colorado Springs, where he died."

Larry F.

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> That is awesome. Thanks. Any chance that it says when Charles lived?
>
> Stephen
>
> On Friday, August 28, 2009, at 10:00  PM, RoteBaron wrote:
>
> >  
> > He did have a son named Charles Peaslee Dana.
> > Source: "Monterrey Is Ours: The Mexican War Letters of Lt. Dana"
> >
> > Tom Shay
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Stephen,

And this also from Google Books, ANNUAL REUNION OF THE ASSOCIATION GRADUATES OF
THE UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY, AT WEST POINT, NEW YORK, June 14th, 1904.

"General Dana was of New England ancestry. His father's family, already
mentioned, were from Massachusetts and New Hampshire and his mother was Miss
Mary A. Harris of Portsmouth, N. H. He was a nephew of Captain Whipple Harris of
the Class of 1825, U. S. M. A. In 1844 General Dana was married in St. Louis to
Sue Martin Sandford, of Kentucky. Their married life extended over sixty years
and was one of great happiness. Their children were, Mary Langdon Dana, who died
in 1904, aged fifty-nine; Charles Peaslee Dana, who died at the age of thirty in
1880; Dr. Alfred S. Dana, who died in 1901, aged forty-nine. Mary Dana, the only
daughter, was married in 1870, to General John C. Tidball, U. S. A. Lieutenant
William Tidball, A. C., is a grandson of General Dana and greatly resembles his
grandfather in many ways. The other grandchildren of General Dana are Mrs.
Robert B. Potter and Miss Mabel Tidball, who with William Tidball, are the
children of his daughter Mary, and Alfred L. Dana and Winifred L. Dana, the
children of his son Alfred.

General Napoleon Jackson Tecumseh Dana was born at Fort Sullivan, Eastport,
Maine, April 15th, 1822.

Children of General Dana: Mary Langdon Dana, born at Fort Pike, on the Island of
Petite Coquille, La., March 22, 1845; Charles Peaslee Dana, born at Fort Ripley,
Minnesota Territory, August 15th, 1849; Alfred Sandford Dana, born at
Louisville, Ky., November 18th, 1851."



--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
wrote:
>
> Stephen,
>
> You may have already seen this from Google Books, Harvard Register vol. 3 p.
54:
>
> "1871. CHARLES PEASLEE DANA, a son of Major-General N. J. T. Dana, formerly of
the U. S. Army, died at Colorado Springs, Col, Oct. 14, 1880. After graduation
he studied law in San Francisco, Cal., for a short time, and in the spring of
1872 entered a business life in the iron mills. In San Francisco he attached
himself to the Pacific Rolling Mills, intending to follow the iron business for
life. He was subject, however, to great exposure in going to the mills, and in
the winter of 1873 suffered from an attack of pneumonia. This compelled him to
change his plans, and from San Francisco he went to Chicago, 111., and engaged
in the railroad business with his father in the office of the General
Superintendent of the Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroad. In the employ of
the same company he was afterwards located successively at Joliet, 111., Quincy.
111., and Council Bluffs, la. He then went to Omaha, Neb., where he again
suffered from pneumonia. Later he spent two years at Rock Island, 111., and in
1879 went to St. Louis, Mo., from there he removed to the plains for his health,
and thence to Colorado Springs, where he died."
>
> Larry F.
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@> wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > That is awesome. Thanks. Any chance that it says when Charles lived?
> >
> > Stephen

Dear All,

Yesterday evening, while sitting under a tent fly at a small CW
event, along with two friends, one whom portrays Gen. J
Longstreet and the other who portrays Maj Gen LaFayette M'Laws, a
discussion was held about Special Order 191. Topics of the
discussion pertained to the copy which D H Hill receives from Gen
Jackson and whether or not the "official" copy transmitted from
Army HQ (Lee's HQ) ever reached General Hill.

I do know Joe Harsh spends some time discussing this in TATF,
however, therein lies a mystery here, of several possible facets
(as at least per the discussion):

1. Did General Hill actually receive the "official" copy and was
it properly receipted for to be transmitted back to Army HQ?
2. If a receipt was recd. at Lee's HQ of transmittal of the order
to General Hill, where would such receipt have been filed?
3. Is it possible that, since Hill already had a copy sent him by
his brother in law, T J Jackson, when the "official" copy
arrives, the comment is basically, "Oh, we already  have a copy"
& the "official" copy is receipted for and then destroyed by Hill
or one of his staff?
4. As per the copy of SO191 found, rather conveniently it might
appear, wrapped around three cigars by Sgt Bloss of the 27th
Indiana and then sent up the chain of command to where it reaches
McClellan, and Mac says basically, "Here I have all the plans of
the Rebels and if I can not whip Bobby Lee, I might as well go
home"... does anyone know what happens to the copy which Mac
receives?

Thank y'all for your enlightenment.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous

Gerry,

1. No evidence of that.

2. No one has said that a receiptt was ever received.

3. Hill never said anything like that.

4. Per Sears, The Lost Order, the envelope in which it was found, and Gen.
Williams note are in the McClellan Papers in the LOC. N&S, vol. 5, no. 7., p.
64.

Larry

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> Yesterday evening, while sitting under a tent fly at a small CW
> event, along with two friends, one whom portrays Gen. J
> Longstreet and the other who portrays Maj Gen LaFayette M'Laws, a
> discussion was held about Special Order 191. Topics of the
> discussion pertained to the copy which D H Hill receives from Gen
> Jackson and whether or not the "official" copy transmitted from
> Army HQ (Lee's HQ) ever reached General Hill.
>
> I do know Joe Harsh spends some time discussing this in TATF,
> however, therein lies a mystery here, of several possible facets
> (as at least per the discussion):
>
> 1. Did General Hill actually receive the "official" copy and was
> it properly receipted for to be transmitted back to Army HQ?
> 2. If a receipt was recd. at Lee's HQ of transmittal of the order
> to General Hill, where would such receipt have been filed?
> 3. Is it possible that, since Hill already had a copy sent him by
> his brother in law, T J Jackson, when the "official" copy
> arrives, the comment is basically, "Oh, we already  have a copy"
> & the "official" copy is receipted for and then destroyed by Hill
> or one of his staff?
> 4. As per the copy of SO191 found, rather conveniently it might
> appear, wrapped around three cigars by Sgt Bloss of the 27th
> Indiana and then sent up the chain of command to where it reaches
> McClellan, and Mac says basically, "Here I have all the plans of
> the Rebels and if I can not whip Bobby Lee, I might as well go
> home"... does anyone know what happens to the copy which Mac
> receives?
>
> Thank y'all for your enlightenment.
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
>

Dear Larry,

Thank you for pointing out some information which I more or less
knew... however, let us presume that the "official" copy was
received and disposed of in some way? Also, why is it that
nothing is really said within ANVa circles about the loss of
SO191? In almost any army, the loss of such a highly sensitive
document would be grounds for army wide investigation,
identification of the culprit or culprits involved, and
subsequent cashiering of said individuals... if they were not
sentenced to be shot for treason.........

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 9:17 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Special Order 191 Question


Gerry,

1. No evidence of that.

2. No one has said that a receiptt was ever received.

3. Hill never said anything like that.

4. Per Sears, The Lost Order, the envelope in which it was found,
and Gen. Williams note are in the McClellan Papers in the LOC.
N&S, vol. 5, no. 7., p. 64.

Larry

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> Yesterday evening, while sitting under a tent fly at a small CW
> event, along with two friends, one whom portrays Gen. J
> Longstreet and the other who portrays Maj Gen LaFayette M'Laws,
> a
> discussion was held about Special Order 191. Topics of the
> discussion pertained to the copy which D H Hill receives from
> Gen
> Jackson and whether or not the "official" copy transmitted from
> Army HQ (Lee's HQ) ever reached General Hill.
>
> I do know Joe Harsh spends some time discussing this in TATF,
> however, therein lies a mystery here, of several possible
> facets
> (as at least per the discussion):
>
> 1. Did General Hill actually receive the "official" copy and
> was
> it properly receipted for to be transmitted back to Army HQ?
> 2. If a receipt was recd. at Lee's HQ of transmittal of the
> order
> to General Hill, where would such receipt have been filed?
> 3. Is it possible that, since Hill already had a copy sent him
> by
> his brother in law, T J Jackson, when the "official" copy
> arrives, the comment is basically, "Oh, we already  have a
> copy"
> & the "official" copy is receipted for and then destroyed by
> Hill
> or one of his staff?
> 4. As per the copy of SO191 found, rather conveniently it might
> appear, wrapped around three cigars by Sgt Bloss of the 27th
> Indiana and then sent up the chain of command to where it
> reaches
> McClellan, and Mac says basically, "Here I have all the plans
> of
> the Rebels and if I can not whip Bobby Lee, I might as well go
> home"... does anyone know what happens to the copy which Mac
> receives?
>
> Thank y'all for your enlightenment.
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
> from
> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
>

<snip>4. Per Sears, The Lost Order, the envelope in which it was
found, and Gen. Williams note are in the McClellan Papers in the
LOC. N&S, vol. 5, no. 7., p. 64.

Larry;

But where is the actual copy of SO191 which Mac read and then
jubilantly announces he has in hand "the plans of the Rebels"?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous

As Larry pointed out, it is in the Library of Congress, (LOC)  in the McClellan
papers.  It can also be viewed on line.  I believe Chilton later wrote that the
policy was for a courrier to breing back a signed envelope to show an order was
delivered.  He said there was no notice of a missing order, and so assumed all
had been delivered.
While there is a record of D.H. Hill losing an order during the Seven Days,
there is no evidence that he received both copies of the order, and he
vehemently denied that he had.  You're  referring to McClellan's telegram to
Lincoln, where he wrote he "had all the plans of the rebels."  Which is in the
OR's, along with a typescript of the order.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/30/09 9:23 PM >>>
<snip>4. Per Sears, The Lost Order, the envelope in which it was
found, and Gen. Williams note are in the McClellan Papers in the
LOC. N&S, vol. 5, no. 7., p. 64.

Larry;

But where is the actual copy of SO191 which Mac read and then
jubilantly announces he has in hand "the plans of the Rebels"?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous

On Wednesday, September 16, 2009, the remains of a Union soldier recently found
at Antietam, will lay in state at the NYS Military Museum in Saratoga. The
Division of Military & Naval Affairs is arranging a burial at the Saratoga
National Cemetery on September 17th. The 125th NYVI will provide an honor guard
at the museum.

Read more at:
http://www.timesunion.com/ASPStories/Story.asp?StoryID=838020&LinkFrom=RSS

Tom Shay


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all!

Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.

Thanks!

Robert Moore





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which consisted of the
following units:

Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with White from
Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis,
a squadron of the First Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell,
the Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade
Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20
officers and men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C.
Means.

As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest the horses and
tired troopers who had been in their saddles for more than eight hours; they
chose a point near the Hagerstown-Williamsport Turnpike about two and a half
miles from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north, the
sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the direction of Hagerstown.
Scouts reported a large wagon train heading south and the commanders decided to
capture it.

	 The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line on north and
south sides of the road respectively with the Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry
in reserve. With most of the Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis
with a small contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran from
Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it speeding north. One wagon
at a time suffered this fate until all were sent north or destroyed. The
outnumbered Confederate cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed
the rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union troopers provided. An
articulate British-born Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train
described well its capture:

	 "At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark and the roads
were rough. Towards morning I entered the Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike,
where I found a cavalry picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the
column as quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I asked him
if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it was entirely clear, and
that he had pickets out in every direction. It was only a few miles now to
Williamsport, and I could see the camp-fires of our troops across the river…I
was forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the roadside
called out "halt!"…In a moment it was repeated. I quickly rode to the side of
the road in the direction of the voice, and found myself at the entrance of a
narrow lane, and there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
far beyond my vision…I said indignantly: "How dare you halt an officer in this
manner." The reply was to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my
prisoner!"…I was place under guard on the roadside, and as the trains came up
they were halted, and the men who were with them were quietly captured. In a
short time the column moved off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was
allowed to ride my own horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier rode,
and, by dint of cursing the negro drivers and beating the mules with their
swords, the cavalrymen contrived to get the jaded animals along at a gallop…I
had a cavalryman on each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to
slip off into the woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little village of
Greencastle, Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out to look at the "Rebel"
prisoners. They hurrahed for their own men and cursed at us. Even the women
joined in the game. Several of them brought their children to the roadside and
told them to shake their fists at the "d----d Rebels." Still there were some
kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came to us, and, without
pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed their chartable
disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse was taken
from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking cavalryman. Then the
Confederates, numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars, and sent
by the railway to Chambersburg."

Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of the 9th
Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on
the 13th and, after missing the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's
wagons.

	 Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle, Pennsylvania, with
ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many beef cattle having burned about 45
wagons. The Confederate wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had
left Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.

Larry F.

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Robert Moore <cenantua@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Moore
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Great description of that action Larry.

Regards
Jim R




________________________________
From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:15:54 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15


The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which consisted of the
following units:

Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with White from
Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis,
a squadron of the First Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell,
the Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade
Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20
officers and men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C.
Means.

As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest the horses and
tired troopers who had been in their saddles for more than eight hours; they
chose a point near the Hagerstown-Williams port Turnpike about two and a half
miles from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north, the
sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the direction of Hagerstown.
Scouts reported a large wagon train heading south and the commanders decided to
capture it.

The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line on north and
south sides of the road respectively with the Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry
in reserve. With most of the Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis
with a small contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran from
Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it speeding north. One wagon
at a time suffered this fate until all were sent north or destroyed. The
outnumbered Confederate cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed
the rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union troopers provided. An
articulate British-born Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train
described well its capture:

"At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark and the roads
were rough. Towards morning I entered the Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike,
where I found a cavalry picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the
column as quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I asked him
if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it was entirely clear, and
that he had pickets out in every direction. It was only a few miles now to
Williamsport, and I could see the camp-fires of our troops across the river…I
was forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the roadside
called out "halt!"…In a moment it was repeated. I quickly rode to the side of
the road in the direction of the voice, and found myself at the entrance of a
narrow lane, and there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
far beyond my vision…I said indignantly: "How dare you halt an officer in this
manner." The reply was
  to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my prisoner!"…I was place
under guard on the roadside, and as the trains came up they were halted, and the
men who were with them were quietly captured. In a short time the column moved
off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was allowed to ride my own
horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier rode, and, by dint of cursing
the negro drivers and beating the mules with their swords, the cavalrymen
contrived to get the jaded animals along at a gallop…I had a cavalryman on
each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip off into the
woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little village of Greencastle,
Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out to look at the "Rebel" prisoners. They
hurrahed for their own men and cursed at us. Even the women joined in the game.
Several of them brought their children to the roadside and told them to shake
their fists at the "d----d Rebels."
  Still there were some kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came to
us, and, without pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed their
chartable disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse
was taken from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking cavalryman.
Then the Confederates, numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars,
and sent by the railway to Chambersburg. "

Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of the 9th
Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on
the 13th and, after missing the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's
wagons.

Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle, Pennsylvania, with
ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many beef cattle having burned about 45
wagons. The Confederate wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had
left Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.

Larry F.

--- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@.. .> wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Moore
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with Jim, thanks.  Is there any idea of the amount of ordinance lost or
how it effected the campaign or SOP.
It amazes me that not more is made of this loss or the losses of Lee's trains
the next year during the retreat from PA.
Troy
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:41 AM, troyacool@... wrote:

> Is there any idea of the amount of ordinance lost or how it
> effected the campaign or SOP.


Given the paucity of ammo in the army reserve trains (using the 30
Jun 63 ANVa ordnance receipts in Brown's Retreat from Gettysburg as a
guide), Longstreet's trains would have represented somewhere between
33 and 50% of the army's artillery reserve ammunition.

Far less than that percentage when it comes to small arms ammo, as it
was more distributed into divisional trains.

Artillery ammunition was frightfully limited for the ANVa at
Sharpsburg (and that doesn't even address the organizational
confusion at the army train park at the Grove Farm).

Dean

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent description... thank you Larry. I figured that there must have been
more Union units involved considering the diverse range of regiments involved in
the breakout. I need to look back at some of the details of the "exodus," but it
seems to me that Cole's was at the head of the column.

Robert



________________________________
From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:15:54 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15

 
The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which consisted of the
following units:

Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with White from
Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis,
a squadron of the First Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell,
the Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade
Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20
officers and men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C.
Means.

As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest the horses and
tired troopers who had been in their saddles for more than eight hours; they
chose a point near the Hagerstown-Williams port Turnpike about two and a half
miles from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north, the
sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the direction of Hagerstown.
Scouts reported a large wagon train heading south and the commanders decided to
capture it.

The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line on north and
south sides of the road respectively with the Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry
in reserve. With most of the Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis
with a small contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran from
Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it speeding north. One wagon
at a time suffered this fate until all were sent north or destroyed. The
outnumbered Confederate cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed
the rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union troopers provided. An
articulate British-born Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train
described well its capture:

"At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark and the roads
were rough. Towards morning I entered the Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike,
where I found a cavalry picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the
column as quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I asked him
if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it was entirely clear, and
that he had pickets out in every direction. It was only a few miles now to
Williamsport, and I could see the camp-fires of our troops across the river…I
was forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the roadside
called out "halt!"…In a moment it was repeated. I quickly rode to the side of
the road in the direction of the voice, and found myself at the entrance of a
narrow lane, and there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
far beyond my vision…I said indignantly: "How dare you halt an officer in this
manner." The reply was
  to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my prisoner!"…I was place
under guard on the roadside, and as the trains came up they were halted, and the
men who were with them were quietly captured. In a short time the column moved
off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was allowed to ride my own
horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier rode, and, by dint of cursing
the negro drivers and beating the mules with their swords, the cavalrymen
contrived to get the jaded animals along at a gallop…I had a cavalryman on
each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip off into the
woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little village of Greencastle,
Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out to look at the "Rebel" prisoners. They
hurrahed for their own men and cursed at us. Even the women joined in the game.
Several of them brought their children to the roadside and told them to shake
their fists at the "d----d Rebels."
  Still there were some kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came to
us, and, without pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed their
chartable disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse
was taken from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking cavalryman.
Then the Confederates, numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars,
and sent by the railway to Chambersburg. "

Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of the 9th
Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on
the 13th and, after missing the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's
wagons.

Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle, Pennsylvania, with
ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many beef cattle having burned about 45
wagons. The Confederate wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had
left Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.

Larry F.

--- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@.. .> wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Moore
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry,

I forgot to ask... where did you find the quote?

Robert




________________________________
From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:15:54 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15

 
The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which consisted of the
following units:

Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with White from
Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis,
a squadron of the First Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell,
the Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade
Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20
officers and men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C.
Means.

As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest the horses and
tired troopers who had been in their saddles for more than eight hours; they
chose a point near the Hagerstown-Williams port Turnpike about two and a half
miles from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north, the
sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the direction of Hagerstown.
Scouts reported a large wagon train heading south and the commanders decided to
capture it.

The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line on north and
south sides of the road respectively with the Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry
in reserve. With most of the Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis
with a small contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran from
Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it speeding north. One wagon
at a time suffered this fate until all were sent north or destroyed. The
outnumbered Confederate cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed
the rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union troopers provided. An
articulate British-born Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train
described well its capture:

"At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark and the roads
were rough. Towards morning I entered the Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike,
where I found a cavalry picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the
column as quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I asked him
if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it was entirely clear, and
that he had pickets out in every direction. It was only a few miles now to
Williamsport, and I could see the camp-fires of our troops across the river…I
was forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the roadside
called out "halt!"…In a moment it was repeated. I quickly rode to the side of
the road in the direction of the voice, and found myself at the entrance of a
narrow lane, and there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
far beyond my vision…I said indignantly: "How dare you halt an officer in this
manner." The reply was
  to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my prisoner!"…I was place
under guard on the roadside, and as the trains came up they were halted, and the
men who were with them were quietly captured. In a short time the column moved
off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was allowed to ride my own
horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier rode, and, by dint of cursing
the negro drivers and beating the mules with their swords, the cavalrymen
contrived to get the jaded animals along at a gallop…I had a cavalryman on
each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip off into the
woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little village of Greencastle,
Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out to look at the "Rebel" prisoners. They
hurrahed for their own men and cursed at us. Even the women joined in the game.
Several of them brought their children to the roadside and told them to shake
their fists at the "d----d Rebels."
  Still there were some kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came to
us, and, without pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed their
chartable disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse
was taken from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking cavalryman.
Then the Confederates, numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars,
and sent by the railway to Chambersburg. "

Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of the 9th
Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on
the 13th and, after missing the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's
wagons.

Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle, Pennsylvania, with
ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many beef cattle having burned about 45
wagons. The Confederate wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had
left Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.

Larry F.

--- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@.. .> wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Moore
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert,

Francis W. Dawson, "Reminiscences of Confederate Service, 1861-1865,"
(Charleston, SC: The News and Courier Book Presses, 1882; reprint: Baton Rouge,
LA: Louisiana State University Press, 1980), ed. By Bell I. Wiley, 64-66.

Larry


--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Robert Moore <cenantua@...> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> I forgot to ask... where did you find the quote?
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:15:54 AM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15
>
>  
> The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which consisted of
the following units:
>
> Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with White from
Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis,
a squadron of the First Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell,
the Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade
Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20
officers and men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C.
Means.
>
> As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest the horses and
tired troopers who had been in their saddles for more than eight hours; they
chose a point near the Hagerstown-Williams port Turnpike about two and a half
miles from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north, the
sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the direction of Hagerstown.
Scouts reported a large wagon train heading south and the commanders decided to
capture it.
>
> The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line on north and
south sides of the road respectively with the Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry
in reserve. With most of the Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis
with a small contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran from
Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it speeding north. One wagon
at a time suffered this fate until all were sent north or destroyed. The
outnumbered Confederate cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed
the rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union troopers provided. An
articulate British-born Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train
described well its capture:
>
> "At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark and the roads
were rough. Towards morning I entered the Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike,
where I found a cavalry picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the
column as quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I asked him
if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it was entirely clear, and
that he had pickets out in every direction. It was only a few miles now to
Williamsport, and I could see the camp-fires of our troops across the river…I
was forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the roadside
called out "halt!"…In a moment it was repeated. I quickly rode to the side of
the road in the direction of the voice, and found myself at the entrance of a
narrow lane, and there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
far beyond my vision…I said indignantly: "How dare you halt an officer in this
manner." The reply was
>  to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my prisoner!"…I was place
under guard on the roadside, and as the trains came up they were halted, and the
men who were with them were quietly captured. In a short time the column moved
off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was allowed to ride my own
horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier rode, and, by dint of cursing
the negro drivers and beating the mules with their swords, the cavalrymen
contrived to get the jaded animals along at a gallop…I had a cavalryman on
each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip off into the
woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little village of Greencastle,
Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out to look at the "Rebel" prisoners. They
hurrahed for their own men and cursed at us. Even the women joined in the game.
Several of them brought their children to the roadside and told them to shake
their fists at the "d----d Rebels."
>  Still there were some kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came
to us, and, without pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed their
chartable disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse
was taken from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking cavalryman.
Then the Confederates, numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars,
and sent by the railway to Chambersburg. "
>
> Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of the 9th
Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on
the 13th and, after missing the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's
wagons.
>
> Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle, Pennsylvania, with
ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many beef cattle having burned about 45
wagons. The Confederate wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had
left Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.
>
> Larry F.
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@ .> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all!
> >
> > Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Robert Moore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thank you again, Larry,

Robert




________________________________
From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 10:23:40 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15

 
Robert,

Francis W. Dawson, "Reminiscences of Confederate Service, 1861-1865,"
(Charleston, SC: The News and Courier Book Presses, 1882; reprint: Baton Rouge,
LA: Louisiana State University Press, 1980), ed. By Bell I. Wiley, 64-66.

Larry

--- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@.. .> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> I forgot to ask... where did you find the quote?
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:15:54 AM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15
>
>  
> The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which consisted of
the following units:
>
> Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with White from
Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis,
a squadron of the First Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell,
the Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade
Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20
officers and men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C.
Means.
>
> As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest the horses and
tired troopers who had been in their saddles for more than eight hours; they
chose a point near the Hagerstown-Williams port Turnpike about two and a half
miles from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north, the
sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the direction of Hagerstown.
Scouts reported a large wagon train heading south and the commanders decided to
capture it.
>
> The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line on north and
south sides of the road respectively with the Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry
in reserve. With most of the Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis
with a small contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran from
Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it speeding north. One wagon
at a time suffered this fate until all were sent north or destroyed. The
outnumbered Confederate cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed
the rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union troopers provided. An
articulate British-born Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train
described well its capture:
>
> "At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark and the roads
were rough. Towards morning I entered the Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike,
where I found a cavalry picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the
column as quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I asked him
if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it was entirely clear, and
that he had pickets out in every direction. It was only a few miles now to
Williamsport, and I could see the camp-fires of our troops across the
river…I was forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from
the roadside called out "halt!"…In a moment it was repeated. I quickly
rode to the side of the road in the direction of the voice, and found myself at
the entrance of a narrow lane, and there adown it were horses and men in a line
that stretched out far beyond my vision…I said indignantly: "How dare you
halt an officer in this manner."
  The reply was
> to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my prisoner!"…I was
place under guard on the roadside, and as the trains came up they were halted,
and the men who were with them were quietly captured. In a short time the column
moved off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was allowed to ride my
own horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier rode, and, by dint of
cursing the negro drivers and beating the mules with their swords, the
cavalrymen contrived to get the jaded animals along at a gallop…I had a
cavalryman on each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip
off into the woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little village of
Greencastle, Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out to look at the "Rebel"
prisoners. They hurrahed for their own men and cursed at us. Even the women
joined in the game. Several of them brought their children to the roadside and
told them to shake their fists at the "d----d
  Rebels."
> Still there were some kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came to
us, and, without pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed their
chartable disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse
was taken from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking cavalryman.
Then the Confederates, numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars,
and sent by the railway to Chambersburg. "
>
> Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of the 9th
Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on
the 13th and, after missing the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's
wagons.
>
> Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle, Pennsylvania, with
ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many beef cattle having burned about 45
wagons. The Confederate wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had
left Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.
>
> Larry F.
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@ .> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all!
> >
> > Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the capture of
Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know that Cole's Cavalry (1st
PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit involved in bagging the train.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Robert Moore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert,

You are correct. Apparently Cole's was in the lead; let me know if you need
more:

Fortunately for the escaping troopers, an experienced guide formerly used by
Gen. Nathanial P. Banks and White, Thomas Noakes, knew the area well and helped
guide the escape column.

	 Major Augustus W. Corliss, the commander of the College Cavaliers, "In
characteristic language…assured them that by the `next morning they would either
be in Pennsylvania, or in hell, or on their way to Richmond.' He gave directions
for a thorough grooming of the horses and inspection of saddle girths, and for
such other slight preparations as it was practicable to make for the perilous
ride."  Capt. Means leading the Loudoun Rangers was outraged at the surrender
plans but "he and his Rangers had special reasons to avoid capture. Since they
were Virginians, they could be hanged as traitors."  Their local knowledge would
also be valuable in guiding the long column through the dark night.

At about 8 P.M. when night had fully fallen, the commands formed up, forage was
distributed, and the 1,500 troopers slowly rode down Shenandoah Street for the
pontoon bridge led by Cole's Cavalry with Lt. Green in the lead who knew the
area along with Noakes. A treat awaited the troopers courtesy of some sutlers
who realized that their goods would shortly be taken by the Rebels: "As [the
troopers] moved forward towards the bridge, men on each side of the column were
seen handing up something which looked in the distance like a little piece of
paper, and the students began to wonder if those `Christian Commissioners' were
giving them tracts….they reached down their hands and grasped a paper of fine
cut tobacco" being given away to `the heroes of the evening.'"

Larry


--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Robert Moore <cenantua@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent description... thank you Larry. I figured that there must have been
more Union units involved considering the diverse range of regiments involved in
the breakout. I need to look back at some of the details of the "exodus," but it
seems to me that Cole's was at the head of the column.
>
> Robert

Larry;

Any idea who that Confederate artillery Lt. was?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:15 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition
train, 9/15


The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which
consisted of the following units:

Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived with
White from Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under Col.
Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis, a squadron of the First Maryland
Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell, the Seventh
Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit) under Maj.
Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First Maryland Potomac
Home Brigade Cavalry (also known as "Cole's Cavalry") led by Maj.
Henry A. Cole, and some 20 officers and men from the Loudoun
Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel C. Means.

As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest
the horses and tired troopers who had been in their saddles for
more than eight hours; they chose a point near the
Hagerstown-Williamsport Turnpike about two and a half miles from
Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride north,
the sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the
direction of Hagerstown. Scouts reported a large wagon train
heading south and the commanders decided to capture it.

The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in line
on north and south sides of the road respectively with the
Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry in reserve. With most of the
Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis with a small
contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran
from Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it
speeding north. One wagon at a time suffered this fate until all
were sent north or destroyed. The outnumbered Confederate cavalry
escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed the rear of the
retreating train but were not able to inflict any damage despite
bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen the Union
troopers provided. An articulate British-born Confederate
artillery lieutenant with the wagon train described well its
capture:

"At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark
and the roads were rough. Towards morning I entered the
Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike, where I found a cavalry
picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the column as
quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I
asked him if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it
was entirely clear, and that he had pickets out in every
direction. It was only a few miles now to Williamsport, and I
could see the camp-fires of our troops across the river.I was
forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the
roadside called out "halt!".In a moment it was repeated. I
quickly rode to the side of the road in the direction of the
voice, and found myself at the entrance of a narrow lane, and
there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
far beyond my vision.I said indignantly: "How dare you halt an
officer in this manner." The reply was to the point: "Surrender,
and dismount! You are my prisoner!".I was place under guard on
the roadside, and as the trains came up they were halted, and the
men who were with them were quietly captured. In a short time the
column moved off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was
allowed to ride my own horse. By the side of each team a Federal
soldier rode, and, by dint of cursing the negro drivers and
beating the mules with their swords, the cavalrymen contrived to
get the jaded animals along at a gallop.I had a cavalryman on
each side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip
off into the woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little
village of Greencastle, Pennsylvania, where the citizens came out
to look at the "Rebel" prisoners. They hurrahed for their own men
and cursed at us. Even the women joined in the game. Several of
them brought their children to the roadside and told them to
shake their fists at the "d----d Rebels." Still there were some
kind people in Greencastle. Three or four ladies came to us, and,
without pretending to have any liking for Confederates, showed
their chartable disposition by giving us some bread and a cup of
cold water. My horse was taken from me at Greencastle and ridden
off by a dirty-looking cavalryman. Then the Confederates,
numbering a hundred or more, were packed into the cars, and sent
by the railway to Chambersburg."

Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B of
the 9th Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from Fitzhugh's
Brigade at Highland on the 13th and, after missing the Brigade
wagons, fell in with Longstreet's wagons.

Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle,
Pennsylvania, with ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many
beef cattle having burned about 45 wagons. The Confederate wagon
train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had left Hagerstown
that night on its way to Virginia.

Larry F.

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Robert Moore <cenantua@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the
> capture of Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know
> that Cole's Cavalry (1st PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit
> involved in bagging the train.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Moore
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Larry;

You answered my question before I posted it. Dawson was, IIRC,
part of Longstreet's staff at the time. What people do not know
about him was that his second wife was Sarah Morgan, who left a
great diary of life in Baton Rouge during the War. Dawson also
wrote some poetry.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
the Almighty God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition
train, 9/15


Robert,

Francis W. Dawson, "Reminiscences of Confederate Service,
1861-1865," (Charleston, SC: The News and Courier Book Presses,
1882; reprint: Baton Rouge, LA: Louisiana State University Press,
1980), ed. By Bell I. Wiley, 64-66.

Larry


--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Robert Moore <cenantua@...>
wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> I forgot to ask... where did you find the quote?
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:15:54 AM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition
> train, 9/15
>
> Â
> The train was captured by the Harpers Ferry escape column which
> consisted of the following units:
>
> Twelfth Illinois Cavalry under Col. Arno Voss which arrived
> with White from Martinsburg, the Eighth New York Cavalry under
> Col. Benjamin F. "Grimes" Davis, a squadron of the First
> Maryland Cavalry commanded by Capt. Charles H. Russell, the
> Seventh Squadron of Rhode Island Cavalry (a three-month unit)
> under Maj. Augustus W. Corliss, a squadron of the First
> Maryland Potomac Home Brigade Cavalry (also known as "Cole's
> Cavalry") led by Maj. Henry A. Cole, and some 20 officers and
> men from the Loudoun Virginia Rangers commanded by Capt. Samuel
> C. Means.
>
> As dawn was breaking on 15 September, the column halted to rest
> the horses and tired troopers who had been in their saddles for
> more than eight hours; they chose a point near the
> Hagerstown-Williams port Turnpike about two and a half miles
> from Williamsport to reform. As the column again began its ride
> north, the sound of many wagon wheels was heard coming from the
> direction of Hagerstown. Scouts reported a large wagon train
> heading south and the commanders decided to capture it.
>
> The Eighth New York and the Twelfth Illinois were formed in
> line on north and south sides of the road respectively with the
> Maryland and Rhode Island cavalry in reserve. With most of the
> Union troopers hidden from view, Col. B. F. Davis with a small
> contingent of the Eighth captured the first wagon and sent it
> quickly over a dirt road to the Greencastle Turnpike, which ran
> from Williamsport to Greencastle, to the west and sent it
> speeding north. One wagon at a time suffered this fate until
> all were sent north or destroyed. The outnumbered Confederate
> cavalry escort from the First Virginia Cavalry harassed the
> rear of the retreating train but were not able to inflict any
> damage despite bringing up two guns due to the efficient screen
> the Union troopers provided. An articulate British-born
> Confederate artillery lieutenant with the wagon train described
> well its capture:
>
> "At about ten o'clock at night I started. It was intensely dark
> and the roads were rough. Towards morning I entered the
> Hagerstown and Williamsport Turnpike, where I found a cavalry
> picket. The officer in charge asked me to move the column as
> quickly as I could, and to keep the trains well closed up. I
> asked him if the enemy were on the road, and he told me that it
> was entirely clear, and that he had pickets out in every
> direction. It was only a few miles now to Williamsport, and I
> could see the camp-fires of our troops across the riverâ?¦I was
> forty or fifty yards ahead of the column, when a voice from the
> roadside called out "halt!"â?¦In a moment it was repeated. I
> quickly rode to the side of the road in the direction of the
> voice, and found myself at the entrance of a narrow lane, and
> there adown it were horses and men in a line that stretched out
> far beyond my visionâ?¦I said indignantly: "How dare you halt
> an officer in this manner." The reply was
>  to the point: "Surrender, and dismount! You are my
> prisoner!"â?¦I was place under guard on the roadside, and as
> the trains came up they were halted, and the men who were with
> them were quietly captured. In a short time the column moved
> off in the direction of the Pennsylvania line. I was allowed to
> ride my own horse. By the side of each team a Federal soldier
> rode, and, by dint of cursing the negro drivers and beating the
> mules with their swords, the cavalrymen contrived to get the
> jaded animals along at a gallopâ?¦I had a cavalryman on each
> side of me, and tried vainly to get an opportunity to slip off
> into the woods. Soon after daylight we reached the little
> village of Greencastle, Pennsylvania, where the citizens came
> out to look at the "Rebel" prisoners. They hurrahed for their
> own men and cursed at us. Even the women joined in the game.
> Several of them brought their children to the roadside and told
> them to shake their fists at the "d----d Rebels."
>  Still there were some kind people in Greencastle. Three or
> four ladies came to us, and, without pretending to have any
> liking for Confederates, showed their chartable disposition by
> giving us some bread and a cup of cold water. My horse was
> taken from me at Greencastle and ridden off by a dirty-looking
> cavalryman. Then the Confederates, numbering a hundred or more,
> were packed into the cars, and sent by the railway to
> Chambersburg. "
>
> Included with the Rebel prisoners were six men from Company B
> of the 9th Virginia Cavalry who had been detached from
> Fitzhugh's Brigade at Highland on the 13th and, after missing
> the Brigade wagons, fell in with Longstreet's wagons.
>
> Before 10 A.M., the wagon train reached Greencastle,
> Pennsylvania, with ninety-seven wagons, 600 prisoners, and many
> beef cattle having burned about 45 wagons. The Confederate
> wagon train was Longstreet's ordnance train which had left
> Hagerstown that night on its way to Virginia.
>
> Larry F.
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Robert Moore <cenantua@
> .> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all!
> >
> > Just wanted to see if anyone knows the particulars behind the
> > capture of Longstreet's ammunition train on 9/15/62. I know
> > that Cole's Cavalry (1st PHB/Maryland Vol. Cav.) was the unit
> > involved in bagging the train.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Robert Moore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Gerry,

You are correct. He was on Longstreet's staff as as an assistant ordnance
officer and was placed in charge of Longstreet's ordnance train heading for
Williamsport when captured. Sarah Morgan wrote "A Confederate Girl's Diary."
Dawson served initially in the Conf. States Navy then as a volunteer in
Purcell's Battery. After the war, he was a reporter for the Richmond Examiner,
then the Dispatch, next the National Express and Transportation Company, then
the Charleston Mercury, then the Charleston News. His Reminiscenses include a
poem of his, "Only A Private."

Larry

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
>
> Larry;
>
> You answered my question before I posted it. Dawson was, IIRC,
> part of Longstreet's staff at the time. What people do not know
> about him was that his second wife was Sarah Morgan, who left a
> great diary of life in Baton Rouge during the War. Dawson also
> wrote some poetry.
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:23 AM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition
> train, 9/15
>
>
> Robert,
>
> Francis W. Dawson, "Reminiscences of Confederate Service,
> 1861-1865," (Charleston, SC: The News and Courier Book Presses,
> 1882; reprint: Baton Rouge, LA: Louisiana State University Press,
> 1980), ed. By Bell I. Wiley, 64-66.
>
> Larry
>

I will be a hosting a chat on the battle of Antietam this Monday night
in the military-discussion.com chat room with battlefield guide Mannie
Gentile will be joining us for the discussion. The chat begins at 8 PM
Eastern time and you must be registered in the chat room to join the
chat. If you have any questions feel free to ask me.

Coly
lpydb@...

The 5th Annual Concert to benefit the Shepherdstown Battlefield Preservation
Association Inc. will be held on September 18, 2009 at the Shepherdstown Train
Station. Doors will open at 7:30PM and   entertainment will begin at 8:00PM.
Entertainment will be provided by the popular Frederick, MD based blues band
"Hard Swimmin' Fish". A $10 donation at the door is requested. Free food and
soft drinks will be available, as will adult beverages for a small donation.

This year's concert will feature an auction of Civil War related items. Auction
items include: a limited edition print  of "The Institute Will Be Heard From
Today", signed by the renowned Civil War artist, Don Prechtel, estimated value:
$150-$250:, a copy of  The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War, retail
value: $70; a 3-hour "VIP" tour of Harpers Ferry National Historical Park for up
to 10 people, estimated value: $200; a 3-hour tour of the Antietam Battlefield
guided by historian Dr. Thomas Clemens for up to 4 people, estimated value:$100;
and, a signed copy of Scott Faulkner's  book "Naked Emperors", estimated value:
$25.

In addition, the Loudon County-based Doukenie Winery has donated several items
for auction. Included are two tickets to a barrel tasting event to be held on
December 12, 2009, face value: $90; and, a private wine tasting for up to 12
people at the winery's Heritage Club Room, face value: $150.

The Shepherdstown Battlefield Preservation Association Inc. (SBPA), organized in
2004, is a non-profit, Section 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to saving and
preserving the site of the 1862 Battle of Shepherdstown. SBPA has preserved 84
acres by way of conservation easements granted by members who own property on
the site. For more information and to purchase the book entitled: Shepherdstown:
Last Clash of the Antietam Campaign September 19 – 20, 1862 ; please visit 
www.battleofshepherdstown.org

Harsh is referring to end of day on the 12th.    According to Franklin's report
he marched from Barnsville through Urbana to near the Monocacy on the 12th,
putting him almost behind Burnside.  I dont think he was at Licksville.

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
wrote:
>
> Rene Tyree posted an interesting statement from Harsh that Burnside in
Frederick was "considerably nearer" to HF than Franklin in Licksville (now
Tuscarora) on 12/13 September (TATF, p. 210). Until now, I never looked at that
statement closely but upon doing so, I don't understand it well.
>
> On modern roads most of which are on or near CW era roads, both Frederick and
Tuscarora are about 21 miles from HF (MapQuest). (Straight-line miles show
Tuscarora about 15 mi. and Frederick about 19 from HF; mostly irrelevant since
neither Burnside or Franklin could have gone in a straight line.)
>
> At first blush, it seems that the march from Frederick could only be more
advantageous because it would have been more direct on better roads, the
Frederick-HF Turnpike (AKA Harper's Ferry Road or Ridge Road) through Jefferson
to Knoxville then to HF while the route from Licksville to HF would have been
less direct on worse roads. Franklin I suppose could have used the C&O Canal
towpath but marching thousands of men, wagons, etc., using that narrow path
would have taken a long time and exposed his army to destruction as it would
have been strung out for many miles.
>
> Contemporary maps (from LOC, "1858 Map of Frederick County, Md. accurately
drawn from correct instrumental surveys of all the county roads, & by Issac Bond
C.E. Lithographed by E. Sachse & Co." and an 1861 map also from the LOC,
"Frederick County, Maryland / prepared under the direction of Liut. Col. J.N.
Macomb Chf. Topl. Engr., for the use of Maj. Gen. G. B. McClellan, commanding
U.S. Army, 1861") show the distance from Frederick City to Knoxville as 15 miles
and then it looks like another 5 or 6 to HF by my estimate. These maps also show
about 16 mi. from Licksville to Knoxville. The last road on this route which
would likely have been used from Licksville hits the HF Turnpike NW of
Petersville and then follows the turnpike to Knoxville.
>
> Likely I'm missing/misunderstanding Harsh's point? Maybe he has Franklin still
in Barnesville which is 5 miles from Licksville when Burnside is in
Frederick--if so, then Burnside is definitely closer.
>
> On the 13th, Franklin had his HQ about 3 miles east of Jefferson. That
morning, there was some fighting nearer Jefferson with Union cavalry and
infantry against Rebel cavalry under Munford. Rush's Lancers had been dispatched
early on the 13th to Jefferson Gap in the Catoctins some six miles southwest of
Frederick where Col. Munford and his two regiments waited. The Lancers arrived
with their infantry escort, the Ninth New York Infantry, just after noon and
stopped having seen Confederate cannon in the road ahead.
>
> Arguably then on the 13th, Burnside had infantry closer to HF but it was only
2 regiments.
>
> Any thoughts about why Harsh said that Burnside was "considerably nearer?"
>
> Larry
>

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply and sorry for my continued confusion. OR, 19, pt. 1, pg.
378 shows Franklin on 12 Sept. thru Urbana near the Monocacy River while pg. 416
shows Burnside at Frederick.
------
So Franklin is coming up the Urbana Pike towards Frederick; Burnside is ahead of
him in Frederick.


> OR, 19, pt. 2, pg. 258, Pleasonton reports Franklin on 11 Sept. with a
division near Sugarloaf. McClellan on 12 Sept. reports to Halleck that Burnside
is in Frederick with the rest of his troops between there and New Market, with
Franklin on the left of Sumner who is near Urbana, pg. 271.
>
> So if Burnside is no closer to HF than Frederick and Franklin is on or close
to the Monocacy west of Sugarloaf on the 12th...

Where did you get that Franklin was west of Sugarloaf?

OR, pt. 2, pg. 258, Pleasonton reports that on 11 September "General Franklin
moved a division of his command forward this morning toward the cross-roads in
front [of Sugarloaf]…."  While there are crossroads all around the mountain, my
guess is that Pleasonton meant the cross roads to the south or west of the
mountain.

On pg. 271, McClellan reports that "Sumner is near Urbana, with our advance
guard thrown out to the Monocacy; Williams on his right; Franklin on his left;
Couch at Barnesville." Sugarloaf is south, southwest of Urbana so I believe that
it is fair to argue that Franklin's troops are at least between Urbana and
Sugarloaf. Further, it is likely that his advance scouts are west of Sugarloaf
probably even to the Monocacy. The summit of Sugarloaf is about 2 miles east of
the Monocacy.

The straight line distance from the summit of SL to HF is about the same
distance as is Frederick to HF--about 19 miles (Urbana not much further maybe a
couple of miles away). But had Franklin been ordered to march from the vicinity
of SL to HF by the most direct route, and Burnside having received the same
orders, Burnside would have gotten there first since he had a very good road
heading southwest directly (more or less) from Frederick to HF while Franklin
clearly did not have any good direct roads to HF. As I noted in a previous post,
the marching mileage for Franklin would have been much longer.

If Franklin is due south of Urbana rather than near or west of SL, then the
straight-line distance from HF to Franklin is about 2 miles more than from HF to
Frederick.

Given the OR reports, I'm sorry that I do not see that Burnside was "much
closer" to HF on the 11th/12th than Franklin even if Franklin's advance scouts
are not on the Monocacy unless we are only talking about marching distances.

If you have cites showing something other than the OR cites above, please let me
know. Thank you.



So Franklin is coming up the Urbana Pike towards Frederick; Burnside is ahead of
him in Frederick.
>
> Where did you get that Franklin was west of Sugarloaf?
>