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  • Category: Civil War
  • Founded: Apr 25, 2001
  • Language: English
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#479 From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:51 am
Subject: Re: Little Known Places at Antietam
clemens@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Gerry,
I don't remember off-hand, but I think it is Joe's book, maybe STS, not TAF.

NJ Rebel wrote:

> Tom;
>
> Would this have been before Anderson's Brigade moved from
> somewhat near the present cemetery up through the Piper Swale to
> the Sunken Road?
>
> That would be the only way I could see some NC boys being killed
> by the same shell...unless it was NC boys in units other than
> those belonging to Anderson.
>
> Your humble servant,
> Gerry Mayers
> Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
> Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry
>
> A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html
>
> "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
> on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
> Edward Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Clemens" <clemens@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Little Known Places at Antietam
>
> > Tom Shay,
> > We're pretty close.  Why we chose the closer location was:
> > 1. Lee was on the hill all day and I don't think he traveled
> very far up the
> > ridge.
> > 2. The full account mentions the shell continued down the hill
> and struck in the
> > ranks of NC regiment and killed a few men.  The regiment was
> described as resting
> > on the outskirts of the town. So if you go too far up the ridge
> the trajectoy
> > from Weed's guns on the Ecker farm takes you awy from town not
> towards it.
> > 3. Another source said about 75 yards north of the turnpike.
> >
> > This is all from memory, so be generous with you criticism.
> > Tom
> > rotbaron@... wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 01/18/2002 0:49:53 AM EST,
> clemens@... writes:
> > > << Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from
> the National
> > > Cemetery.  Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
> Second alternative
> > > is the ridge just to the north, but I think the cemetery is
> correct.
> > > Surprisingly good view from there. >>
> > >
> > > Scouting the battlefield with Joe Harsh......ah, to dream!
> > >
> > > During anniversary tours a few months ago, I attended Keith
> Snyder's tour of
> > > the middle of the Rebel line. We met at parking lot on
> Boonsboro Pike across
> > > from cemetery and headed east/northeast. As we reached the
> crest of
> > > ridgeline, I asked Keith where he thinks the incident (Hill's
> horse being hit
> > > by shell) occurred. He felt it was likely in this area. So we
> certainly have
> > > at least two options to choose from!
> > >
> > > Tom Shay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Attachment: vcard [not shown]

#480 From: Bill or Glenna Jo Christen <gwjchris@...>
Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Little Known Places at Antietam
gwjchris
Send Email Send Email
 
suggestions...

The camps of the Ninth Corps troops on the night before the battle. In fact, I
would like to see a good map of all troop
positions on the 16th and on the night before the battle.

Where was Jackson's HQ at the start of the battle?

Where in the West Woods was Oliver W. Holmes, Jr. standing when he was wounded?
and where was he eventually found?

Bill Christen

#481 From: TR Livesey <tlivesey@...>
Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:14 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Little Known Places at Antietam
westwood_ent...
Send Email Send Email
 
Here are a few suggestions I would add...

The southeast corner of Otto's 40 acre cornfield. Nifty place if you know where
to cut
through the brambles. You can see where the 4th RI made its 'stand'.

The extreme right flank of the Federal line, near the Nicodemus house. We've all
been there, but if you are not whizzing by at 50 m.p.h on the bypass, there is
some very interesting terrain, particularly where a gully opens up to
the east, used by Gibbon's (and others troops) to move east/west.

The Reel farm. There is the well known photograph of the burned out Reel
farm, but few actually visit the spot.

The bluffs on the south side of the Boonsboro turnpike, looking down on
the Newcomer farm, where Pleasonton's calvary fanned out. The area is
readily accessible, but rarely visited.

The Sharpsburg ridge. Such a big feature, it is hard to recognize up close,
but if you trace it from the Middlekauf farm southward to the visitor's center,
and then westward where it runs off the battlefield, you can see how the battle
pivoted along the crest line.

The west slope of the Porterstown ridge, between the lower and middle bridges,
alone the line of Federal Artillery. Great view looking westward over the
battlefield.

The peak of the hill where the Antietam bends, held by the 50th GA (not the
Georgian overlook). Very wooded today, was wooded then too.

All locations described above are in the park, and no trespassing is required.

Regards,
	 TR Livesey
	 tlivesey@...

#482 From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:40 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Little Known Places at Antietam
njrebel1999
Send Email Send Email
 
Bill;

Those are good questions. However, the camps of all the troops of
the Ninth Corps might have been on the ridges back beyond the
Lower Bridge on the farm now presently used by groups as a group
campsite and certainly spread out in that general area. This is
my opinion but have nothing solid on this.

As to Jackson's HQ the morning of the battle, everything I have
read seems to indicate a very flexible "HQ" centered around the
West Woods area.

As to Holmes, I wonder if the monument to the Philadelphia
Brigade accurately positions the middle of the brigade's lines at
the time of their halt in the West Woods. To accurately pinpoint
Holmes's location in the battle line might require a knowledge of
where both his regiment and his company were situated. Wonder if
Holmes himself ever left any writings about where he was at the
time he was shot in the neck?

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill or Glenna Jo Christen" <gwjchris@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Little Known Places at Antietam


>
> suggestions...
>
> The camps of the Ninth Corps troops on the night before the
battle. In fact, I would like to see a good map of all troop
> positions on the 16th and on the night before the battle.
>
> Where was Jackson's HQ at the start of the battle?
>
> Where in the West Woods was Oliver W. Holmes, Jr. standing when
he was wounded? and where was he eventually found?
>
> Bill Christen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>

#483 From: Bill or Glenna Jo Christen <gwjchris@...>
Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 7:21 am
Subject: Cook's (8th Mass) Btty at South Mt.
gwjchris
Send Email Send Email
 
ringgold61 wrote:

>  How badly were Cook's boys treated?  From Durell's unit history, I
> thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
> fire from close Confederate infantry.  The Massachusetts men were
> able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
> were serving their pieces.

Mark,

Here's is an unfinished excerpt from a project the TR Livesey and I have
started. It's still in the development stage. We are using a chronological
ordering of all accounts and TR's excellent mapping skills. We hope to take
advantage of 3-D maps to help study the fighting at Fox's and Turner's Gaps.
It's still a year, or so from completion as TR is waiting patiently for me to
finish my Pauline Cushman book (later this spring). Our approach is
copyrighted and will eventually include more than  the OR accounts. What I
have included here is just a sample of how we have reordered the account
presentations in a chronology.

NOON  --  ACROSS FROM THE HOFMAN HOUSE

[The house is still there with a modern structure across the road where
Cook's battery went into action. I have pictures of the house and fields from
the early 1920s.]

The command [COOK'S BATTERY] proceeded up the road to a point about 400 yards
from the summit of the mountain, where, at about 12 o'clock [NOON], two
pieces were brought into battery and commenced firing on a battery of the
enemy on an elevation about a mile to the right. (12)

... [17TH MICHIGAN] proceeded far up the road towards the crest...and moving
to the support of a section of Cook's battery...sent up the mountain to open
on the enemy's guns on the right of the gap [TURNER'S]. (1)

The road at this point was deeply gullied and very narrow, obliging us to
move by the flank, the banks on either side being steep and six to ten feet
high. (1)

I [WILLCOX]...was proceeding to take up a position on his [COX] right, when I
was ordered by...Reno to take position overlooking the main pike to our
right. I planted a section of Cook's battery near the turn of the road, and
opened fire on the enemy's battery across the main pike. After a few good
shots, the enemy unmasked a battery on his left, over Shriver's Gap, from a
small field enveloped by woods. He threw canister and shell, and drove Cook's
cannoneers and drivers down the road with their limbers. (3)

One section of Cook's battery was placed in position near the turn of the
road (on the crest), and opened fire on the enemy's batteries across the gap.
(2)

Before reaching the summit, I [CHRIST] was ordered to form in line of battle
on the right of the road, but before this movement was completed the enemy
opened a battery which command this road. Cook's battery, which was just
being placed in position at this time, received this fire directly in front,
and from its great severity they were obliged to retire with their caissons,
leaving two of their pieces in danger of being taken. (4)

At this juncture, and while we [17MI] were about to deploy on the right, the
enemy suddenly opened (at about 200 yards) with a battery which enfiladed the
road at this point... (1)

The division [WILLCOX'S] was proceeding to deploy to the right of the road,
when the enemy suddenly opened (at 150 yards) with a battery which enfiladed
the road at this point...(?)

After firing about four rounds one of the pieces became disabled, and was
withdrawn. While another piece was coming forward to replace it, the enemy
opened a very heavy fire of canister upon us from a masked battery of
12-pounders, about 150 yards off, on our flank. (12)

Arrived at the foot of the mountain, I [WELSH] placed my troops in position
on the left of Christ's brigade, the right of the Forty-fifth Pennsylvania
resting on the road and the left of the Forty-sixth New York extending toward
the command of...Cox. (5)

The regiment [46NY]..formed in line of battle on the left of the 45th
Pennsylvania Volunteers, under a very heavy fire of shot and shell. The
regiment covered themselves behind fences and hills till the order was given
to advance. (14)

I [WELSH] then caused two companies of the Forty-fifth Pennsylvania to be
moved forward to the top of the hill as skirmishers, who soon discovered the
enemy's infantry in great force and his artillery completely commanding and
shelling the woods. Heavy masses of infantry, covered by trees and stone
fences supported the artillery. (5)

The column of caissons and the disabled piece were ordered to the rear, when
the enemy's fire became so heavy, 1 man...killed and 4 wounded in one section
by the first discharge, the cannoneers were directed to retire to cover.
(12)

...drove off Cook's cannoneers with their limbers, several of our [who's?]
men being killed by shot and shell of the enemy. The cannoneers with their
horses and limbers came rushing down the road through our dense ranks... (1)

...drove off Cook's cannoners with their limbers, and caused a temporary
panic, in which the guns were nearly lost. (2)

Cook gallantly remained with his guns. Cook here lost 1 man killed, 4
wounded, and 2 horses killed.  (3)

The men [COOK'S BTTY] consequently fell back to shelter in the woods until a
later hour in the day...  (12)

...causing a temporary panic among some of the troops... (1)

But the Seventy-ninth New York and Seventeenth Michigan promptly rallied,
changed front under a heavy fire, and moved to protect the guns, with which
Captain Cook had remained. (2)

...promptly changed front under a heavy fire of shot and shell, but as we had
never had a battalion drill we formed our line of battle by countermarching,
and moved out with the Seventy-ninth New York veterans to protect the
battery. (1)

...the Seventy-ninth New York...was immediately ordered to the front on left
of the road, and the Seventeenth Michigan...on the right of the road, to
protect these pieces. (4)

Order was soon restored, and the division [WILLCOX'S] formed in line on the
right of Cox, and was kept concealed as much as possible under the shelter of
the hillside...exposed...to fire of the battery in front, but
also...batteries on the other side of the turnpike... (2)

The attack was so sudden, the whole division being under fire (a flank fire),
that a temporary panic occurred until I [WILLCOX] caused the Seventy-ninth
New York...and Seventeenth Michigan... on the extreme left to draw across the
road, facing the enemy, who were so close that we expected a charge to take
Cook's battery. (3)

The Seventy-ninth [NY] and Seventeenth [MI] here deserve credit for their
coolness and firmness in rallying and changing front under a heavy fire. (3)

Here the regiment [17M] extended across the Old Sharpsburg road and lay in
line of battle, sheltered...by the sloping ground until nearly 4 p.m. (1)

I [WILLCOX] now made a new disposition of the division...The rear,
Seventy-ninth up in front and left of Cook's pieces, and the Seventeenth on
right and little in rear; Seventy-ninth as skirmishers along whole line,
supported by Forty-fifth Pennsylvania...connected Welsh's brigade with Cox's
right, and stretched Christ's brigade from Welsh and across the road, holding
the On hundredth Pennsylvania...in reserve, and moved up my whole command
under the cover of the hillside. (3)

Meantime the enemy's guns continued to play on us, killing and wounding at
all points, but few in number. We lay silent and kept concealed.  Our picket
officers reported the enemy in heavy force of regiments in rear of their
skirmishers. (3)

(1)    REPORT OF COLONEL FREDERIC W. SWIFT FROM MICHIGAN  IN THE WAR,
COMPILED BY JOHN ROBERTSON, LANSING,  MICHIGAN, 1882     375-376  17MI

(2)    THE WAR OF THE REBELLION: A COMPILATION OF THE  OFFICIAL RECORDS OF
THE UNION AND CONFEDERATE  ARMIES, VOLUME XIX, US DEPARTMENT OF WAR,
WASHINGTON DC, 1880-1901  (GENERAL REPORT NO. 2)  --  15 OCTOBER 1862 MAJOR
GENERAL GEORGE B. McCLELLAN   24-53 AOP

(3)    O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 139)   --  21  SEPTEMBER 1862 BRIGADIER
GENERAL ORLANDO B. WILLCOX     427-429 1/IX

(4)    O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 143)  --  [no date possibly SEPTEMBER 1862]

        COLONEL B.C. CHRIST    437-438 1/1/IX

(5)    O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 144)  --  18 SEPTEMBER 1862  COLONEL THOMAS
WELSH   439-440 2/1/IX

(12)   O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 140)  --  21 SEPTEMBER 1862  CAPTAIN ASA M.
COOK    433-434 8MA BTTY

(14)   O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 145)  --  16 SEPTEMBER 1862  LIEUTENANT
COLONEL JOSEPH GERHARDT   441-442 46NY

We have the ORs and a few other accounts almost completed. The project covers
13-16 September from Middletown to the two Gaps. We will be adding our
analysis and annotations as well. TR is working on an interactive feature
that will account for the time of day in regard to sun positions.

Bill Christen

#484 From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: Cook's (8th Mass) Btty at South Mt.
njrebel1999
Send Email Send Email
 
Group:

I have posed some additional questions to the chronological
account. Bill, great thing you and TR are doing. It might take
years, but would be a great thing to do for all the portions of
the Battle of Antietam as well!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill or Glenna Jo Christen" <gwjchris@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 2:21 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Cook's (8th Mass) Btty at South Mt.


>
>
> ringgold61 wrote:
>
> >  How badly were Cook's boys treated?  From Durell's unit
history, I
> > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a
scalding
> > fire from close Confederate infantry.  The Massachusetts men
were
> > able to retire their guns from the field while the
Pennsylvanians
> > were serving their pieces.
>
> Mark,
>
> Here's is an unfinished excerpt from a project the TR Livesey
and I have
> started. It's still in the development stage. We are using a
chronological
> ordering of all accounts and TR's excellent mapping skills. We
hope to take
> advantage of 3-D maps to help study the fighting at Fox's and
Turner's Gaps.
> It's still a year, or so from completion as TR is waiting
patiently for me to
> finish my Pauline Cushman book (later this spring). Our
approach is
> copyrighted and will eventually include more than  the OR
accounts. What I
> have included here is just a sample of how we have reordered
the account
> presentations in a chronology.
>
> NOON  --  ACROSS FROM THE HOFMAN HOUSE
>
> [The house is still there with a modern structure across the
road where
> Cook's battery went into action. I have pictures of the house
and fields from
> the early 1920s.]
>
> The command [COOK'S BATTERY] proceeded up the road to a point
about 400 yards
> from the summit of the mountain, where, at about 12 o'clock
[NOON], two
> pieces were brought into battery and commenced firing on a
battery of the
> enemy on an elevation about a mile to the right. (12)
>
> ... [17TH MICHIGAN] proceeded far up the road towards the
crest...and moving
> to the support of a section of Cook's battery...sent up the
mountain to open
> on the enemy's guns on the right of the gap [TURNER'S]. (1)
>
> The road at this point was deeply gullied and very narrow,
obliging us to
> move by the flank, the banks on either side being steep and six
to ten feet
> high. (1)
>
> I [WILLCOX]...was proceeding to take up a position on his [COX]
right, when I
> was ordered by...Reno to take position overlooking the main
pike to our
> right. I planted a section of Cook's battery near the turn of
the road, and
> opened fire on the enemy's battery across the main pike. After
a few good
> shots, the enemy unmasked a battery on his left, over Shriver's
Gap, from a
> small field enveloped by woods. He threw canister and shell,
and drove Cook's
> cannoneers and drivers down the road with their limbers. (3)
>
Question: Where is Shriver's Gap? and in relation to Fox's and
Turner's Gaps?

> One section of Cook's battery was placed in position near the
turn of the
> road (on the crest), and opened fire on the enemy's batteries
across the gap.
> (2)
>
> Before reaching the summit, I [CHRIST] was ordered to form in
line of battle
> on the right of the road, but before this movement was
completed the enemy
> opened a battery which command this road. Cook's battery, which
was just
> being placed in position at this time, received this fire
directly in front,
> and from its great severity they were obliged to retire with
their caissons,
> leaving two of their pieces in danger of being taken. (4)
>
> At this juncture, and while we [17MI] were about to deploy on
the right, the
> enemy suddenly opened (at about 200 yards) with a battery which
enfiladed the
> road at this point... (1)
>

Would this have been a masked battery?

> The division [WILLCOX'S] was proceeding to deploy to the right
of the road,
> when the enemy suddenly opened (at 150 yards) with a battery
which enfiladed
> the road at this point...(?)
>
> After firing about four rounds one of the pieces became
disabled, and was
> withdrawn. While another piece was coming forward to replace
it, the enemy
> opened a very heavy fire of canister upon us from a masked
battery of
> 12-pounders, about 150 yards off, on our flank. (12)
>
> Arrived at the foot of the mountain, I [WELSH] placed my troops
in position
> on the left of Christ's brigade, the right of the Forty-fifth
Pennsylvania
> resting on the road and the left of the Forty-sixth New York
extending toward
> the command of...Cox. (5)
>
> The regiment [46NY]..formed in line of battle on the left of
the 45th
> Pennsylvania Volunteers, under a very heavy fire of shot and
shell. The
> regiment covered themselves behind fences and hills till the
order was given
> to advance. (14)
>
> I [WELSH] then caused two companies of the Forty-fifth
Pennsylvania to be
> moved forward to the top of the hill as skirmishers, who soon
discovered the
> enemy's infantry in great force and his artillery completely
commanding and
> shelling the woods. Heavy masses of infantry, covered by trees
and stone
> fences supported the artillery. (5)
>
> The column of caissons and the disabled piece were ordered to
the rear, when
> the enemy's fire became so heavy, 1 man...killed and 4 wounded
in one section
> by the first discharge, the cannoneers were directed to retire
to cover.
> (12)
>
> ...drove off Cook's cannoneers with their limbers, several of
our [who's?]
> men being killed by shot and shell of the enemy. The cannoneers
with their
> horses and limbers came rushing down the road through our dense
ranks... (1)
>
> ...drove off Cook's cannoners with their limbers, and caused a
temporary
> panic, in which the guns were nearly lost. (2)
>
> Cook gallantly remained with his guns. Cook here lost 1 man
killed, 4
> wounded, and 2 horses killed.  (3)
>

Was all this due to heavy Confederate artillery fire, small arms
fire or a combination of both?

> The men [COOK'S BTTY] consequently fell back to shelter in the
woods until a
> later hour in the day...  (12)
>
> ...causing a temporary panic among some of the troops... (1)
>
> But the Seventy-ninth New York and Seventeenth Michigan
promptly rallied,
> changed front under a heavy fire, and moved to protect the
guns, with which
> Captain Cook had remained. (2)
>
> ...promptly changed front under a heavy fire of shot and shell,
but as we had
> never had a battalion drill we formed our line of battle by
countermarching,
> and moved out with the Seventy-ninth New York veterans to
protect the
> battery. (1)
>
> ...the Seventy-ninth New York...was immediately ordered to the
front on left
> of the road, and the Seventeenth Michigan...on the right of the
road, to
> protect these pieces. (4)
>
> Order was soon restored, and the division [WILLCOX'S] formed in
line on the
> right of Cox, and was kept concealed as much as possible under
the shelter of
> the hillside...exposed...to fire of the battery in front, but
> also...batteries on the other side of the turnpike... (2)
>
> The attack was so sudden, the whole division being under fire
(a flank fire),
> that a temporary panic occurred until I [WILLCOX] caused the
Seventy-ninth
> New York...and Seventeenth Michigan... on the extreme left to
draw across the
> road, facing the enemy, who were so close that we expected a
charge to take
> Cook's battery. (3)
>

How close were Confederate troops at this point in time to the
79th NY and 17th MI?

> The Seventy-ninth [NY] and Seventeenth [MI] here deserve credit
for their
> coolness and firmness in rallying and changing front under a
heavy fire. (3)
>
> Here the regiment [17M] extended across the Old Sharpsburg road
and lay in
> line of battle, sheltered...by the sloping ground until nearly
4 p.m. (1)
>
> I [WILLCOX] now made a new disposition of the division...The
rear,
> Seventy-ninth up in front and left of Cook's pieces, and the
Seventeenth on
> right and little in rear; Seventy-ninth as skirmishers along
whole line,
> supported by Forty-fifth Pennsylvania...connected Welsh's
brigade with Cox's
> right, and stretched Christ's brigade from Welsh and across the
road, holding
> the On hundredth Pennsylvania...in reserve, and moved up my
whole command
> under the cover of the hillside. (3)
>
> Meantime the enemy's guns continued to play on us, killing and
wounding at
> all points, but few in number. We lay silent and kept
concealed.  Our picket
> officers reported the enemy in heavy force of regiments in rear
of their
> skirmishers. (3)
>
> (1)    REPORT OF COLONEL FREDERIC W. SWIFT FROM MICHIGAN  IN
THE WAR,
> COMPILED BY JOHN ROBERTSON, LANSING,  MICHIGAN, 1882
375-376  17MI
>
> (2)    THE WAR OF THE REBELLION: A COMPILATION OF THE  OFFICIAL
RECORDS OF
> THE UNION AND CONFEDERATE  ARMIES, VOLUME XIX, US DEPARTMENT OF
WAR,
> WASHINGTON DC, 1880-1901  (GENERAL REPORT NO. 2)  --  15
OCTOBER 1862 MAJOR
> GENERAL GEORGE B. McCLELLAN   24-53 AOP
>
> (3)    O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 139)   --  21  SEPTEMBER 1862
BRIGADIER
> GENERAL ORLANDO B. WILLCOX     427-429 1/IX
>
> (4)    O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 143)  --  [no date possibly
SEPTEMBER 1862]
>
>        COLONEL B.C. CHRIST    437-438 1/1/IX
>
> (5)    O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 144)  --  18 SEPTEMBER 1862
COLONEL THOMAS
> WELSH   439-440 2/1/IX
>
> (12)   O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 140)  --  21 SEPTEMBER 1862
CAPTAIN ASA M.
> COOK    433-434 8MA BTTY
>
> (14)   O.R., VOL. XIX (REPORT NO. 145)  --  16 SEPTEMBER 1862
LIEUTENANT
> COLONEL JOSEPH GERHARDT   441-442 46NY
>
> We have the ORs and a few other accounts almost completed. The
project covers
> 13-16 September from Middletown to the two Gaps. We will be
adding our
> analysis and annotations as well. TR is working on an
interactive feature
> that will account for the time of day in regard to sun
positions.
>
> Bill Christen
>
>
Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee

#485 From: Bill or Glenna Jo Christen <gwjchris@...>
Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: Cook's (8th Mass) Btty at South Mt.
gwjchris
Send Email Send Email
 
NJ Rebel wrote:

> > shots, the enemy unmasked a battery on his left, over Shriver's Gap, from
> a small field enveloped by woods. He threw canister and shell, and drove
> Cook's cannoneers and drivers down the road with their limbers. (3)
>
> Question: Where is Shriver's Gap? and in relation to Fox's and Turner's
> Gaps?

Shriver's Gap is further up the South Mountain chain. Not all officers were
familiar with the names is the local geographic gazetteer. Here he is
probably referring to some guns of Boundourant's battery (Jeff Davis
Artillery) at the top of Fox's Gap along the old mountain road leading to
Turner's Gap. The location of the battery was probably 100-150 yards away
from where Reno's monument is today...to the north/northeast.

> > At this juncture, and while we [17MI] were about to deploy on the right,
> the enemy suddenly opened (at about 200 yards) with a battery which
> enfiladed the road at this point... (1)
>
> Would this have been a masked battery?

It was Boundurants's. When the guns were rolled forward to the edge of the
woods bordering Wise's large field across from the Reno Monument they had a
direct line of sight down the road (today Reno Monument Road) and into the
field across from the Hofman House. The woods today obscure that line of
sight. I do not know how many guns were deployed...probably a section not the
entire battery. There were also CS guns on the north side of Turner's Gap
that could fire into Wise's fields and the are near the Hofman House.

> > Cook gallantly remained with his guns. Cook here lost 1 man killed, 4
> wounded, and 2 horses killed.  (3)
>
> Was all this due to heavy Confederate artillery fire, small arms fire or a
> combination of both?

Probably the balance of the fire was from CS artillery. This took place
during the "lull" that occurred around noon. CS infantry ws spread thin along
the old road to the Mountain House. There was probably sporadic small arms
fire that increased as CS troops (Drayton's Brigade) formed behind the
stonewalls lining the old road at the top of Wise's large field .

> > The attack was so sudden, the whole division being under fire (a flank
> fire),  that a temporary panic occurred until I [WILLCOX] caused the
> Seventy-ninth New York...and Seventeenth Michigan... on the extreme left to
> draw across the road, facing the enemy, who were so close that we expected
> a charge to take Cook's battery. (3)

> How close were Confederate troops at this point in time to the 79th NY and
> 17th MI?

At the top of the road near the intersection of Fox's Gap Road and the old
mountain road. Soldiers in the 17th wrote of being pinned down by artillery
and infantry fire for some time. The order for a general advance would not
come for a few hours. At that time the veterans of the 79th teased the green
troops of the 17th about there dress uniforms and hats. Some 17th boys still
had their white gloves tucked into their belts according to veteran's tales.
The CS troops did not leave their lines in the old road.

Willcox's order to deploy came after the initial artillery attack that caused
some confusion in the ranks of the 17th who were in column (either in
platoons or by four's). The road just down from the Hofman House goes through
a narrow cut.

Bill

#486 From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:44 pm
Subject: Help needed
clemens@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Group,
I need some last minute help so I will turn this into a trivia scavengr
hunt.  See bottom for the prizes.   If anyone can provide any of the
following information I would be most grateful. For all of these I need not
only the information, but full bibliographic info on where you find it.
Warning: most of this is very obscure!

1. I need a mini biography, birth & death dates, residence, occupation, etc.
for:

Lt. John Meighan,  2nd South Carolina Cav.
E. G. Kilbourn, Speaker of the House of Delegates, MD 1861
Julius A. Dargan, member of Secession COnvention in South Carolina
Reuben H. Walworth,  New York politician, spoke at Albany convention
1/31/1861
James S. Thayer, from Hoosick Falls, NY.  Delegate to Dem. Nat'l. Conven.
1864
G.F.R. Henderson, Jackson's British biogrpaher, might be in reprint into?
Lord Lyons, British ambassador to US during the war
W. D. Kelly, Congressman from PA(?) during the war, wrote a book about
Lincoln & Stanton
Wm. H. Powell, author of Fifth Army Corps, again might be in intro to the
book.


2. Also need complete text of A.H. Stephens "cornerstone" speech, on-line and
searchable would be great.

Source for boast by Robert Toombs early in the war that he would "call the
role of my slaves at the base of the Bunker Hill monument"

Source for a letter from Napoleon III to Gen. (O.S.) Ferry, July 3, 1862.
(Not in OR or Naval OR)

Source for a quotation from Napoleon Bonaparte: When King Jossph wrote to
Napoleon that he could not ascertain the position and strength of the enemy
army, Napoleon replied "Why don't you attack him and find out?"


First person to get all these to me wins a copy of my dissertation, second
place is two copies!!!
Thanks all!
Attachment: vcard [not shown]

#487 From: Sharon Barnes <tee@...>
Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:13 pm
Subject: Re: Cook's (8th Mass) Btty at South Mt.
tee@...
Send Email Send Email
 
You have the wrong person.  I'm Thomas in N.C.

Bill or Glenna Jo Christen wrote:

> NJ Rebel wrote:
>
> > > shots, the enemy unmasked a battery on his left, over Shriver's Gap, from
> > a small field enveloped by woods. He threw canister and shell, and drove
> > Cook's cannoneers and drivers down the road with their limbers. (3)
> >
> > Question: Where is Shriver's Gap? and in relation to Fox's and Turner's
> > Gaps?
>
> Shriver's Gap is further up the South Mountain chain. Not all officers were
> familiar with the names is the local geographic gazetteer. Here he is
> probably referring to some guns of Boundourant's battery (Jeff Davis
> Artillery) at the top of Fox's Gap along the old mountain road leading to
> Turner's Gap. The location of the battery was probably 100-150 yards away
> from where Reno's monument is today...to the north/northeast.
>
> > > At this juncture, and while we [17MI] were about to deploy on the right,
> > the enemy suddenly opened (at about 200 yards) with a battery which
> > enfiladed the road at this point... (1)
> >
> > Would this have been a masked battery?
>
> It was Boundurants's. When the guns were rolled forward to the edge of the
> woods bordering Wise's large field across from the Reno Monument they had a
> direct line of sight down the road (today Reno Monument Road) and into the
> field across from the Hofman House. The woods today obscure that line of
> sight. I do not know how many guns were deployed...probably a section not the
> entire battery. There were also CS guns on the north side of Turner's Gap
> that could fire into Wise's fields and the are near the Hofman House.
>
> > > Cook gallantly remained with his guns. Cook here lost 1 man killed, 4
> > wounded, and 2 horses killed.  (3)
> >
> > Was all this due to heavy Confederate artillery fire, small arms fire or a
> > combination of both?
>
> Probably the balance of the fire was from CS artillery. This took place
> during the "lull" that occurred around noon. CS infantry ws spread thin along
> the old road to the Mountain House. There was probably sporadic small arms
> fire that increased as CS troops (Drayton's Brigade) formed behind the
> stonewalls lining the old road at the top of Wise's large field .
>
> > > The attack was so sudden, the whole division being under fire (a flank
> > fire),  that a temporary panic occurred until I [WILLCOX] caused the
> > Seventy-ninth New York...and Seventeenth Michigan... on the extreme left to
> > draw across the road, facing the enemy, who were so close that we expected
> > a charge to take Cook's battery. (3)
>
> > How close were Confederate troops at this point in time to the 79th NY and
> > 17th MI?
>
> At the top of the road near the intersection of Fox's Gap Road and the old
> mountain road. Soldiers in the 17th wrote of being pinned down by artillery
> and infantry fire for some time. The order for a general advance would not
> come for a few hours. At that time the veterans of the 79th teased the green
> troops of the 17th about there dress uniforms and hats. Some 17th boys still
> had their white gloves tucked into their belts according to veteran's tales.
> The CS troops did not leave their lines in the old road.
>
> Willcox's order to deploy came after the initial artillery attack that caused
> some confusion in the ranks of the 17th who were in column (either in
> platoons or by four's). The road just down from the Hofman House goes through
> a narrow cut.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#488 From: Sharon Barnes <tee@...>
Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:13 pm
Subject: Re: Help needed
tee@...
Send Email Send Email
 
You have the wrong person.  I'm Thomas in N.C.

Tom Clemens wrote:

> Dear Group,
> I need some last minute help so I will turn this into a trivia scavengr
> hunt.  See bottom for the prizes.   If anyone can provide any of the
> following information I would be most grateful. For all of these I need not
> only the information, but full bibliographic info on where you find it.
> Warning: most of this is very obscure!
>
> 1. I need a mini biography, birth & death dates, residence, occupation, etc.
> for:
>
> Lt. John Meighan,  2nd South Carolina Cav.
> E. G. Kilbourn, Speaker of the House of Delegates, MD 1861
> Julius A. Dargan, member of Secession COnvention in South Carolina
> Reuben H. Walworth,  New York politician, spoke at Albany convention
> 1/31/1861
> James S. Thayer, from Hoosick Falls, NY.  Delegate to Dem. Nat'l. Conven.
> 1864
> G.F.R. Henderson, Jackson's British biogrpaher, might be in reprint into?
> Lord Lyons, British ambassador to US during the war
> W. D. Kelly, Congressman from PA(?) during the war, wrote a book about
> Lincoln & Stanton
> Wm. H. Powell, author of Fifth Army Corps, again might be in intro to the
> book.
>
> 2. Also need complete text of A.H. Stephens "cornerstone" speech, on-line and
> searchable would be great.
>
> Source for boast by Robert Toombs early in the war that he would "call the
> role of my slaves at the base of the Bunker Hill monument"
>
> Source for a letter from Napoleon III to Gen. (O.S.) Ferry, July 3, 1862.
> (Not in OR or Naval OR)
>
> Source for a quotation from Napoleon Bonaparte: When King Jossph wrote to
> Napoleon that he could not ascertain the position and strength of the enemy
> army, Napoleon replied "Why don't you attack him and find out?"
>
> First person to get all these to me wins a copy of my dissertation, second
> place is two copies!!!
> Thanks all!
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#489 From: "Oliver Gamble" <oliverg25@...>
Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: Help needed
oliverg25
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:44 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

Dear Group,

Source for a quotation from Napoleon Bonaparte: When King Jossph wrote to
Napoleon that he could not ascertain the position and strength of the enemy
army, Napoleon replied "Why don't you attack him and find out?"


I THINK you might find it in Jomoni's book "The Art Of War". I seem to recall the quote was used to describe Napoleon's methods and use of sarcasm at times to prod allies and subordinates.
I know he used that method during Waterloo when told that Gouchey was slow because the roads were muddy he replied "Tell him the roads are muddy for everyone"
 
O.G.

#490 From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:21 am
Subject: Re: Stephens' Speech
clemens@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Well it was a good guess but appraently wrong.  The excerpt I am looking

for sounded like it came from Stephens speech but it does not appear
there.  See if it sounds familiar to anyone.

Carman wrote: Southern leaders were firm " in the conviction that cotton

was King in England as well as the United States and that an
interpuption in its supply would be so serious in its consequences that
a new republic, where cotton was to be king and slavery its
corner-stone, would be welcomed into the family of nations as the surest

possible guaranty against the occurrance of such a disaster."

Sure sounds like Stephens, doesn't it?
Attachment: vcard [not shown]

#491 From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:29 am
Subject: Re: Help needed
clemens@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Oliver,
No I do not see that quotation in Jomini.  Any other idieas?  It seemed
likely since Carman went to a military school, but did not find it
there.
Tom

Oliver Gamble wrote:

>    Part 1.1    Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>            Encoding: quoted-printable
Attachment: vcard [not shown]

#492 From: "Oliver Gamble" <oliverg25@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 4:08 am
Subject: Re: Help needed
oliverg25
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

Oliver,
No I do not see that quotation in Jomini.  Any other idieas?  It seemed
likely since Carman went to a military school, but did not find it
there.
Tom
I was not sure I had read it there. Perhaps it is in his first book "Treatise on Great Military Operations", which was written while still in the French Army.
I have a copy of it written in French and will see if I can find the quote tomorrow.
 
You might want to see if anyone can answer the question "What was Jomini's FIRST Name?" I will tell you it was not Henri. <g>
 
O.G.

#493 From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:12 am
Subject: Re: Help needed
clemens@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you.
Baron? :-)

Oliver Gamble wrote:

>    Part 1.1    Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>            Encoding: quoted-printable
Attachment: vcard [not shown]

#494 From: "Ray Ortensie" <photoray@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Stephens' Speech
ortenray
Send Email Send Email
 
Tom:

I think I remember reading something to that nature in Frank Owsley's _King
Cotton Diplomacy_.  I'll look through it and see if I can find the citation
for it, if its in there.

Ray

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Clemens" <clemens@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Stephens' Speech


> Well it was a good guess but appraently wrong.  The excerpt I am looking
>
> for sounded like it came from Stephens speech but it does not appear
> there.  See if it sounds familiar to anyone.
>
> Carman wrote: Southern leaders were firm " in the conviction that cotton
>
> was King in England as well as the United States and that an
> interpuption in its supply would be so serious in its consequences that
> a new republic, where cotton was to be king and slavery its
> corner-stone, would be welcomed into the family of nations as the surest
>
> possible guaranty against the occurrance of such a disaster."
>
> Sure sounds like Stephens, doesn't it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

#495 From: "Ray Ortensie" <photoray@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:26 pm
Subject: Re: Help needed
ortenray
Send Email Send Email
 
Harriett?
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

Oliver,
No I do not see that quotation in Jomini.  Any other idieas?  It seemed
likely since Carman went to a military school, but did not find it
there.
Tom
I was not sure I had read it there. Perhaps it is in his first book "Treatise on Great Military Operations", which was written while still in the French Army.
I have a copy of it written in French and will see if I can find the quote tomorrow.
 
You might want to see if anyone can answer the question "What was Jomini's FIRST Name?" I will tell you it was not Henri. <g>
 
O.G.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

#496 From: "Oliver Gamble" <oliverg25@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:36 pm
Subject: Re: Help needed
oliverg25
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

Harriett?
 
 
Ray;
No. Let me know when you give up. <vbg>
 
Tom;
 
The phrase is not in Jomini's first book. I didn't think it would be since it was written before he left Napoleon and joined the Russians. I have several other books on Napoleon and will see if I can find it in any of them.
 
O.G.
 

#497 From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:51 am
Subject: Re: Help needed
ringgold61
Send Email Send Email
 
>   You might want to see if anyone can answer the question "What was
Jomini's FIRST Name?" I will tell you it was not Henri. <g>
>
>   O.G.




Perhaps his name was ANTOINE HENRI JOMINI ?

Mark A. Pflum

#498 From: "Oliver Gamble" <oliverg25@...>
Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:46 am
Subject: Re: Re: Help needed
oliverg25
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: ringgold61
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help needed

>   You might want to see if anyone can answer the question "What was
Jomini's FIRST Name?" I will tell you it was not Henri. <g>
>
>   O.G.




Perhaps his name was ANTOINE HENRI JOMINI ?

Mark A. Pflum

 
Correct.
 
O.G.
 

#499 From: "Ray Ortensie" <photoray@...>
Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:50 am
Subject: Re: Help needed
ortenray
Send Email Send Email
 
were you looking for Louis?
 
Ray
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help needed

Harriett?
 
 
Ray;
No. Let me know when you give up. <vbg>
 
Tom;
 
The phrase is not in Jomini's first book. I didn't think it would be since it was written before he left Napoleon and joined the Russians. I have several other books on Napoleon and will see if I can find it in any of them.
 
O.G.
 





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

#500 From: "Ray Ortensie" <photoray@...>
Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: Help needed
ortenray
Send Email Send Email
 
Jomini, Antoine Henri, baron de
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 6:46 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help needed

 
----- Original Message -----
From: ringgold61
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help needed

>   You might want to see if anyone can answer the question "What was
Jomini's FIRST Name?" I will tell you it was not Henri. <g>
>
>   O.G.




Perhaps his name was ANTOINE HENRI JOMINI ?

Mark A. Pflum

 
Correct.
 
O.G.
 





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

#501 From: "ronald.r.ortensie.1" <photoray@...>
Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:20 pm
Subject: new photos from my party!
ortenray
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello!

My party... It was absolutely amazing!
I have attached my web page with new photos!
If you can please make color prints of my photos. Thanks!


begin 666 www.myparty.yahoo.com
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end

#502 From: "james2044" <james2044@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:44 am
Subject: photos from my party is a virus
james2044
Send Email Send Email
 
This has infected one of the ACW groups I'm in.
Don't open it.

#503 From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 2:04 am
Subject: Re: photos from my party is a virus
njrebel1999
Send Email Send Email
 
Do a Virus Scan now james

Your humble servant,
Gerry Mayers
Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

"I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
on which he has nobly laid down his life."     --General Robert
Edward Lee


----- Original Message -----
From: "james2044" <james2044@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] photos from my party is a virus


> This has infected one of the ACW groups I'm in.
> Don't open it.
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
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>
>
>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>

#504 From: "james2044" <james2044@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:52 pm
Subject: Re: photos from my party is a virus
james2044
Send Email Send Email
 
Gerry,

Don't need to, this happened on a Gettysburg group.

#505 From: "james2044" <james2044@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:59 pm
Subject: New Book that might be of intrest to the group
james2044
Send Email Send Email
 
I just read "Tempest at Ox Hill" by David A. Welker from Da Capo
Press.  This is the battle of Chantilly and he has done an excellent
job!  This battle gets lost between Bull Run and Antietam, overlooked
in the change of AOP command and all the other things that cause us
to "lose" a battle and a battlefield.

Mr. Welker pulls together the battle and the situation.  He manages
to cover the battle action and the effects of them on the battle and
on the war.  The last two chaptures are worth the price of the book,
$27.50.

James

#506 From: "moenwanda" <moe.wanda@...>
Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 4:07 pm
Subject: Re: Help needed
moenwanda
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Tom,

You can find Stephens's full text speech on MOA

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?type=simple&c=moa&cc=moa&
sid=55c7710d36f412fee15b621ca4661f7f&q1=cornerstone%20speech&rgn=full%
20text&firstpubl1=1800&firstpubl2=1925&view=header&idno=ACR4181.0001.0
01

Very best,

Moe

--- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
> Dear Group,
> I need some last minute help so I will turn this into a trivia
scavengr
> hunt.  See bottom for the prizes.   If anyone can provide any of the
> following information I would be most grateful. For all of these I
need not
> only the information, but full bibliographic info on where you find
it.
> Warning: most of this is very obscure!
>
> 1. I need a mini biography, birth & death dates, residence,
occupation, etc.
> for:
>
> Lt. John Meighan,  2nd South Carolina Cav.
> E. G. Kilbourn, Speaker of the House of Delegates, MD 1861
> Julius A. Dargan, member of Secession COnvention in South Carolina
> Reuben H. Walworth,  New York politician, spoke at Albany convention
> 1/31/1861
> James S. Thayer, from Hoosick Falls, NY.  Delegate to Dem. Nat'l.
Conven.
> 1864
> G.F.R. Henderson, Jackson's British biogrpaher, might be in reprint
into?
> Lord Lyons, British ambassador to US during the war
> W. D. Kelly, Congressman from PA(?) during the war, wrote a book
about
> Lincoln & Stanton
> Wm. H. Powell, author of Fifth Army Corps, again might be in intro
to the
> book.
>
>
> 2. Also need complete text of A.H. Stephens "cornerstone" speech,
on-line and
> searchable would be great.
>
> Source for boast by Robert Toombs early in the war that he would
"call the
> role of my slaves at the base of the Bunker Hill monument"
>
> Source for a letter from Napoleon III to Gen. (O.S.) Ferry, July 3,
1862.
> (Not in OR or Naval OR)
>
> Source for a quotation from Napoleon Bonaparte: When King Jossph
wrote to
> Napoleon that he could not ascertain the position and strength of
the enemy
> army, Napoleon replied "Why don't you attack him and find out?"
>
>
> First person to get all these to me wins a copy of my dissertation,
second
> place is two copies!!!
> Thanks all!

#507 From: "moenwanda" <moe.wanda@...>
Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: Help needed
moenwanda
Send Email Send Email
 
Yet another site for Stephen's speech:

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/stephans.html

Moe

--- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
> Dear Group,
> I need some last minute help so I will turn this into a trivia
scavengr
> hunt.  See bottom for the prizes.   If anyone can provide any of the
> following information I would be most grateful. For all of these I
need not
> only the information, but full bibliographic info on where you find
it.
> Warning: most of this is very obscure!
>
> 1. I need a mini biography, birth & death dates, residence,
occupation, etc.
> for:
>
> Lt. John Meighan,  2nd South Carolina Cav.
> E. G. Kilbourn, Speaker of the House of Delegates, MD 1861
> Julius A. Dargan, member of Secession COnvention in South Carolina
> Reuben H. Walworth,  New York politician, spoke at Albany convention
> 1/31/1861
> James S. Thayer, from Hoosick Falls, NY.  Delegate to Dem. Nat'l.
Conven.
> 1864
> G.F.R. Henderson, Jackson's British biogrpaher, might be in reprint
into?
> Lord Lyons, British ambassador to US during the war
> W. D. Kelly, Congressman from PA(?) during the war, wrote a book
about
> Lincoln & Stanton
> Wm. H. Powell, author of Fifth Army Corps, again might be in intro
to the
> book.
>
>
> 2. Also need complete text of A.H. Stephens "cornerstone" speech,
on-line and
> searchable would be great.
>
> Source for boast by Robert Toombs early in the war that he would
"call the
> role of my slaves at the base of the Bunker Hill monument"
>
> Source for a letter from Napoleon III to Gen. (O.S.) Ferry, July 3,
1862.
> (Not in OR or Naval OR)
>
> Source for a quotation from Napoleon Bonaparte: When King Jossph
wrote to
> Napoleon that he could not ascertain the position and strength of
the enemy
> army, Napoleon replied "Why don't you attack him and find out?"
>
>
> First person to get all these to me wins a copy of my dissertation,
second
> place is two copies!!!
> Thanks all!

#508 From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Help needed
clemens@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Moe,
I've searched his speech, it isn't what i need.  I am now thinking it might be part of Hammond's original Cotton is King speech.
Thanks
Tom

moenwanda wrote:

Hi Tom,

You can find Stephens's full text speech on MOA

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?type=simple&c=moa&cc=moa&
sid=55c7710d36f412fee15b621ca4661f7f&q1=cornerstone%20speech&rgn=full%
20text&firstpubl1=1800&firstpubl2=1925&view=header&idno=ACR4181.0001.0
01

Very best,

Moe

--- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
> Dear Group,
> I need some last minute help so I will turn this into a trivia
scavengr
> hunt.  See bottom for the prizes.   If anyone can provide any of the
> following information I would be most grateful. For all of these I
need not
> only the information, but full bibliographic info on where you find
it.
> Warning: most of this is very obscure!
>
> 1. I need a mini biography, birth & death dates, residence,
occupation, etc.
> for:
>
> Lt. John Meighan,  2nd South Carolina Cav.
> E. G. Kilbourn, Speaker of the House of Delegates, MD 1861
> Julius A. Dargan, member of Secession COnvention in South Carolina
> Reuben H. Walworth,  New York politician, spoke at Albany convention
> 1/31/1861
> James S. Thayer, from Hoosick Falls, NY.  Delegate to Dem. Nat'l.
Conven.
> 1864
> G.F.R. Henderson, Jackson's British biogrpaher, might be in reprint
into?
> Lord Lyons, British ambassador to US during the war
> W. D. Kelly, Congressman from PA(?) during the war, wrote a book
about
> Lincoln & Stanton
> Wm. H. Powell, author of Fifth Army Corps, again might be in intro
to the
> book.
>
>
> 2. Also need complete text of A.H. Stephens "cornerstone" speech,
on-line and
> searchable would be great.
>
> Source for boast by Robert Toombs early in the war that he would
"call the
> role of my slaves at the base of the Bunker Hill monument"
>
> Source for a letter from Napoleon III to Gen. (O.S.) Ferry, July 3,
1862.
> (Not in OR or Naval OR)
>
> Source for a quotation from Napoleon Bonaparte: When King Jossph
wrote to
> Napoleon that he could not ascertain the position and strength of
the enemy
> army, Napoleon replied "Why don't you attack him and find out?"
>
>
> First person to get all these to me wins a copy of my dissertation,
second
> place is two copies!!!
> Thanks all!

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