Stephen,

I have noticed that too...must be the time of year. As to your earlier
question, I am going to try to do some research on the Preliminary EP
and get back to you on it.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Where is everybody?


> Hey, where did everyone go? This place has gotten awful quiet
> lately.
> What's going on?
>
> Stephen
>
>

"I can't find any reference to them having to give up slavery first, before they
can come back in."

That's because there wasn't any. On the surface, the P EP was meant not to wean
slavery from the slave states but to encourage states in rebellion to return to
the Union. Simply put, for any state returning to the Union before Jan 1863,
slavery was still an open question. After that time, slavery was off the table.

Of course, it was quite obvious that no slave state was going to return to the
Union in the time frame specified; the real meaning behind the P EP was to state
that the Union policy, starting Jan 1 1863, would be for the US military to free
any slaves that fell under its control as a result of military advancement.

T.R. Livesey
tlivesey@...

On Wed Nov  8 12:58 , Stephen Recker <recker@...> sent:

>What were the terms by which Lincoln would accept the South back into
>the Union per the Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation? As I read the
>text it seems that Lincoln would accept the South back in, within 100
>days, WITH their slavery intact, but after they were back in he would
>offer them compensated emancipation, or some other voluntary scheme. I
>can't find any reference to them having to give up slavery first,
>before they can come back in. Thanks.
>
>Stephen
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
>
> Your email settings:
>    Individual Email | Traditional
>
> To change settings online go to:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/join
>    (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> To change settings via email:
>
TalkAntietam-digest@yahoogroups.com','','','')">TalkAntietam-digest@yahoogroups.\
com
>
TalkAntietam-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com','','','')">TalkAntietam-fullfeatured@\
yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

The next meeeting of Gettysburg CWRT is November 16 , 2006.

The meeting with feature Stephen Recker (interactive historian and Director of
the Antietam Battlefield Guides). Topic is Virtual Gettysburg. Stephen will
discuss and demonstrate modern uses of technology in battlefield interpretation.
He will showcase current and upcoming productions including Virtual Gettysburg
v2.0, Virtual Antietam, the Online Interactive Battlefield Classroom and the
Pocket Ranger.

I am scheduled for the March 2007 meeting which will feature an overview of the
Antietam campaign. In May 2007, I will conduct an Antietam tour for the group.

Their website is http://www.cwrtgettysburg.org

Tom Shay


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Way to go, Tom!

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: <RoteBaron@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Gettysburg CWRT


> The next meeeting of Gettysburg CWRT is November 16 , 2006.
>
> The meeting with feature Stephen Recker (interactive historian and
> Director of the Antietam Battlefield Guides). Topic is Virtual
> Gettysburg. Stephen will discuss and demonstrate modern uses of
> technology in battlefield interpretation. He will showcase current
> and upcoming productions including Virtual Gettysburg v2.0, Virtual
> Antietam, the Online Interactive Battlefield Classroom and the
> Pocket Ranger.
>
> I am scheduled for the March 2007 meeting which will feature an
> overview of the Antietam campaign. In May 2007, I will conduct an
> Antietam tour for the group.
>
> Their website is http://www.cwrtgettysburg.org
>
> Tom Shay
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Tom,

Thanks for the plug. I look forward to your talk and your battle walk
next spring.

Cheers,
Stephen

On Thursday, November 9, 2006, at 07:49 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:

> The next meeeting of Gettysburg CWRT is November 16 , 2006.
>
> The meeting with feature Stephen Recker (interactive historian and
> Director of the Antietam Battlefield Guides). Topic is Virtual
> Gettysburg. Stephen will discuss and demonstrate modern uses of
> technology in battlefield interpretation. He will showcase current and
> upcoming productions including Virtual Gettysburg v2.0, Virtual
> Antietam, the Online Interactive Battlefield Classroom and the Pocket
> Ranger.
>
> I am scheduled for the March 2007 meeting which will feature an
> overview of the Antietam campaign. In May 2007, I will conduct an
> Antietam tour for the group.
>

Gerry,

Awesome. Thanks.

Stephen

On Wednesday, November 8, 2006, at 09:42 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

> Stephen,
>
> I have noticed that too...must be the time of year. As to your earlier
> question, I am going to try to do some research on the Preliminary EP
> and get back to you on i

Stephen,

I see that Todd Livesey already answered  your question and I tend to
agree with what he says. However, I will try to read the Prelim EP
with your question in mind. Hope to get back to you soon.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Where is everybody?


> Gerry,
>
> Awesome. Thanks.
>
> Stephen
>
> On Wednesday, November 8, 2006, at 09:42 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> I have noticed that too...must be the time of year. As to your
>> earlier
>> question, I am going to try to do some research on the Preliminary
>> EP
>> and get back to you on i
>
>

Todd's letter didn't come through my email, but I found it on Yahoo's
site. Very interesting. Thanks.

Stephen

On Thursday, November 9, 2006, at 11:14 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

> I see that Todd Livesey already answered your question and I tend to
> agree with what he says. However, I will try to read the Prelim EP
> with your question in mind. Hope to get back to you soon.
>

All,

I am currently working on a script  for a video on the Maryland  campaign
including the Battle of Antietam.

I was hoping I could check some facts with the group from time to  time as I
go.

First question - I am having some trouble finding out exactly how many
pieces of artillery each side had at the outset of the campaign. How many did 
each
side have at the start of the battle? How many did Jackson capture at
Harpers Ferry? And did any of those make it to the battle on the 17th.?

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How many did Jackson capture at Harpers Ferry?
71 cannon
Source: Blue & Gray Magazine December 1998 (page 10)

How many did each side have at the start of the battle?
Confederate: 246 and Union: 293
Source: Blue & Gray Magazine December 1998 (page 10)

And did any of those make it to the battle on the 17th?
No batteries from  the captured booty at Harpers Ferry joined Gen. Lee at
Sharpsburg.
Source is ANTIETAM REVEALED by Dennis Frye (page 65)

Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/26/2006 8:48:16 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
RoteBaron@... writes:

293


Thanks!!!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Mike,

What other information do you need to check?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: <Darmok4349@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:07 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Help with Reasearch


> All,
>
> I am currently working on a script  for a video on the Maryland
> campaign
> including the Battle of Antietam.
>
> I was hoping I could check some facts with the group from time to
> time as I
> go.
>
> First question - I am having some trouble finding out exactly how
> many
> pieces of artillery each side had at the outset of the campaign. How
> many did  each
> side have at the start of the battle? How many did Jackson capture
> at
> Harpers Ferry? And did any of those make it to the battle on the
> 17th.?
>
> Mike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Is it possible for the AoNV to "win" this battle?  This would have to
be done w/o major changes to the history of the battle.  However, that
night, the AOP would have to leave the field in possion of the AoNV.

Any suggestions?

Does anyone have a good reliable source that would give details on the
casualties on both sides for each part of the Battle. How many on the  cornfield
and in the sunken road and so on.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Technically speaking, Lee did "win" the Battle of Antietam/Sharpsburg.
At the end of the day on September 17th, even though his army (ANV)
had been battered almost into extinction, his opponent could only
count a gain of a few hundred yards all along his line.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] AoNV Victory


Is it possible for the AoNV to "win" this battle?  This would have to
be done w/o major changes to the history of the battle.  However, that
night, the AOP would have to leave the field in possion of the AoNV.

Any suggestions?

Casualty figures, accurate casualty figures, for each major component
of the battle is a tough call.

Go to Antietam on the Web website via Google and see what it says
there.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: <Darmok4349@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Help with Reasearch


> Does anyone have a good reliable source that would give details on
> the
> casualties on both sides for each part of the Battle. How many on
> the  cornfield
> and in the sunken road and so on.
>
> Mike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Mike,

The NPS site is probably a good place to start:
http://www.nps.gov/anti/historyculture/casualties.htm

This site states that 3,650 were killed. It is important to remember,
though, that many people use that number, but then also use a number
twice as large as having died from their wounds within two weeks.

Stephen

On Monday, November 27, 2006, at 10:58 PM, Darmok4349@... wrote:

> Does anyone have a good reliable source that would give details on the
> casualties on both sides for each part of the Battle. How many on the
> cornfield
> and in the sunken road and so on.
>
> Mike

Mike,

The casualties reported on the NPS site are broken down by the
traditional "Morning," "Mid-day," and "Afternoon" phases. Morning
lumps together The Cornfield, West Woods, and around the Dunker
Church. These figures come from the Official Records and from the
Antietam Battlefield Board.

Dr. Harsh in "Taken at the Flood" (p. 376) attributes 8,700 casualties
to the 160 acres of the Cornfield and East Woods and occurring before
9 am. I assume this includes the pastures south and west of The
Cornfield. On p. 394 he attributes 4,481 casualties to the fighting in
the West Woods and around the Dunker Church.

Agree with Stephen, probably another 3,650 soldiers scummed fairly
quickly to their wounds.

Regards,
Ron Dickey

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> The NPS site is probably a good place to start:
> http://www.nps.gov/anti/historyculture/casualties.htm
>
> This site states that 3,650 were killed. It is important to remember,
> though, that many people use that number, but then also use a number
> twice as large as having died from their wounds within two weeks.
>
> Stephen
>

Nonsense!  He left the field in possession of the enemy, just like at
Gettysburg.  If Lee "won" at Antietam, then he "won"  at Gettysburg, Bragg,
"won" at Perryvile, etc.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College



>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 11/27/06 11:13 PM >>>

Technically speaking, Lee did "win" the Battle of Antietam/Sharpsburg.
At the end of the day on September 17th, even though his army (ANV)
had been battered almost into extinction, his opponent could only
count a gain of a few hundred yards all along his line.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] AoNV Victory

Is it possible for the AoNV to "win" this battle? This would have to
be done w/o major changes to the history of the battle. However, that
night, the AOP would have to leave the field in possion of the AoNV.

Any suggestions?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Steelers will play again this coming weekend, but that doesn't mean they
won in Baltimore on Sunday!



Harry



-----Original Message-----
From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:46 AM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AoNV Victory



Nonsense! He left the field in possession of the enemy, just like at
Gettysburg. If Lee "won" at Antietam, then he "won" at Gettysburg, Bragg,
"won" at Perryvile, etc.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College

>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@fast. <mailto:gerry1952%40fast.net> net>
11/27/06 11:13 PM >>>

Technically speaking, Lee did "win" the Battle of Antietam/Sharpsburg.
At the end of the day on September 17th, even though his army (ANV)
had been battered almost into extinction, his opponent could only
count a gain of a few hundred yards all along his line.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@hotmail. <mailto:JWD2044%40hotmail.com>
com>
To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] AoNV Victory

Is it possible for the AoNV to "win" this battle? This would have to
be done w/o major changes to the history of the battle. However, that
night, the AOP would have to leave the field in possion of the AoNV.

Any suggestions?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No they sure didn't, sorry about that Harry.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College



>>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 11/28/06 11:06 AM >>>

The Steelers will play again this coming weekend, but that doesn't mean they
won in Baltimore on Sunday!

Harry

-----Original Message-----
From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:46 AM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AoNV Victory

Nonsense! He left the field in possession of the enemy, just like at
Gettysburg. If Lee "won" at Antietam, then he "won" at Gettysburg, Bragg,
"won" at Perryvile, etc.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College

>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@fast. <mailto:gerry1952%40fast.net> net>
11/27/06 11:13 PM >>>

Technically speaking, Lee did "win" the Battle of Antietam/Sharpsburg.
At the end of the day on September 17th, even though his army (ANV)
had been battered almost into extinction, his opponent could only
count a gain of a few hundred yards all along his line.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@hotmail. <mailto:JWD2044%40hotmail.com>
com>
To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] AoNV Victory

Is it possible for the AoNV to "win" this battle? This would have to
be done w/o major changes to the history of the battle. However, that
night, the AOP would have to leave the field in possion of the AoNV.

Any suggestions?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This isn't any help at all!

I don't care about "technical", having heard all the BS about Lee's
victories from Antietam to the Overland Campaign.  I need a realistic
way, that the AoNV holds the field and the AOP falls back.

Any ideas?

James

James,

If that is what you want, then may I suggest Dixie Victorious, a book
of essays (counter factuals) about how the South could have won the
war? There are a couple of essays dealing with Sharpsburg and the
battles around South Mountain.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: AoNV Victory


This isn't any help at all!

I don't care about "technical", having heard all the BS about Lee's
victories from Antietam to the Overland Campaign.  I need a realistic
way, that the AoNV holds the field and the AOP falls back.

Any ideas?

James

I just got a 13th New Jersey commemorative badge that has:

D=Society

...on it. Anyone have any idea what this means? Thanks.

Stephen

Stephen,

Can you share a photo with us?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:00 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] 13th New Jersey


>I just got a 13th New Jersey commemorative badge that has:
>
> D=Society
>
> ...on it. Anyone have any idea what this means? Thanks.
>
> Stephen
>
>

You betcha:

http://www.virtualantietam.com/dan_transfer/13NJ_society.jpg

Thanks.
-sjr

On Tuesday, December 5, 2006, at 02:11 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

> Stephen,
>
> Can you share a photo with us?
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers

Hi Stephen,

It looks like it might refer to Company D.  See a clue from the NJ
Historical Society here:

http://www.jerseyhistory.org/findingaid.php?aid=0352

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
>
> You betcha:
>
> http://www.virtualantietam.com/dan_transfer/13NJ_society.jpg
>
> Thanks.
> -sjr

Brian,

Yow, that's some clue. Many thanks. Amazing.

Cheers,
Stephen

On Tuesday, December 5, 2006, at 05:10 PM, Brian Downey wrote:

> Hi Stephen,
>
> It looks like it might refer to Company D. See a clue from the NJ
> Historical Society here:
>
> http://www.jerseyhistory.org/findingaid.php?aid=0352

Guys -- (and Gals), I've just been appointed to the Board of Trustees of the
Kennesaw Mountain NBP Historical Asso. so if you're ever in or around Atlanta,
drop me a line and I'll try to arrange a "special" tour.  It really is a
beautiful park.
BTW -- I guess I'd better brush up on the war in the West, huh?  Who IS this guy
Sherman anyway?

Richard

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Stephen Recker
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:00 PM
   Subject: [TalkAntietam] 13th New Jersey


   I just got a 13th New Jersey commemorative badge that has:

   D=Society

   ...on it. Anyone have any idea what this means? Thanks.

   Stephen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Richard;

Whoa! Congrats!?!?!?! What did y'all do to earn that honor?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Kennesaw Mountain NBP


> Guys -- (and Gals), I've just been appointed to the Board of
> Trustees of the Kennesaw Mountain NBP Historical Asso. so if you're
> ever in or around Atlanta, drop me a line and I'll try to arrange a
> "special" tour.  It really is a beautiful park.
> BTW -- I guess I'd better brush up on the war in the West, huh?  Who
> IS this guy Sherman anyway?
>
> Richard
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Stephen Recker
>  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:00 PM
>  Subject: [TalkAntietam] 13th New Jersey
>
>
>  I just got a 13th New Jersey commemorative badge that has:
>
>  D=Society
>
>  ...on it. Anyone have any idea what this means? Thanks.
>
>  Stephen
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>