Gerry,

Another spot that I visited on a ranger-led tour was the rock ledge where
the12th Georgia left so many dead. Walker noticed they most of them did not
advance when ordered, and discovered that every man who could go forward
had. The remainder lay dead behind the ledge. I posted a clip from Carman
map and excerpt from the manuscript that I hope can serve as focus for
others to agree or dispute on the location of this ledge. The tick marks on
the map denote rock outcroppings.

http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/12ga.htm

Tom Shay

----- Original Message -----
From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
question


Dear Ron,

Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
sent.

Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
Pelham had his artillery?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
question


> Gerry,
>
> The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
> Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
> where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
> emeged
> from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
> to
> the Carmen-Cope maps.
>
> Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
> northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
> Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
> reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the
> Cornfield
> using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
> where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
> location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
> vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
> Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
> Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6
> am,
> to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade,
> the
> stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other,
> and
> finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked
> 3
> hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in
> that
> most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
> was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
> other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what
> you
> can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can
> you
> see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
> restrictive the terrain could be.
>
> Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
> other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
>
> Ron Dickey
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Gang,
>>
>> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
>> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
>> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
>> the
>> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
>>
>> I write with three main requests:
>> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
>> the
>> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
>> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
>> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
>> permission to do so?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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Yahoo! Groups Links

Dear Ron,

Not at all. Thank you for your help.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
question


> Gerry,
>
> I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
> Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
> Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
> http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly
> shows
> the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
> as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
> terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
> http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
> overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting
> the
> modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
> of these maps help.
>
> If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker
> Church,
> walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
> monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
> dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
> line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough...
> rock
> out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
> "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then
> the
> cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
> The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
> vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
> amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area
> is
> where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
> Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.
>
> The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
> side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to
> follow
> the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
> the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for
> crossing.
> The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
> Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
> recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."
>
> I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope
> this
> helps on your tour.
>
> Ron Dickey
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>> Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
>> with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to
>> be
>> sent.
>>
>> Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
>> Pelham had his artillery?
>>
>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>>
>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
>> a
>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
>> Almighty
>> God. --Anonymous
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
>> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
>> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites
>> and
>> question
>>
>>
>> > Gerry,
>> >
>> > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
>> > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
>> > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
>> > emeged
>> > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly
>> > true
>> > to
>> > the Carmen-Cope maps.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Tom,

Thanks! Would you be willing to join the CWDG Fall Muster attendees at
Sharpsburg on Sunday, October 15th, to lend your expertise?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <RoteBaron@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites


> Gerry,
>
> Another spot that I visited on a ranger-led tour was the rock ledge
> where
> the12th Georgia left so many dead. Walker noticed they most of them
> did not
> advance when ordered, and discovered that every man who could go
> forward
> had. The remainder lay dead behind the ledge. I posted a clip from
> Carman
> map and excerpt from the manuscript that I hope can serve as focus
> for
> others to agree or dispute on the location of this ledge. The tick
> marks on
> the map denote rock outcroppings.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/12ga.htm
>
> Tom Shay
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites
> and
> question
>
>
> Dear Ron,
>
> Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
> with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
> sent.
>
> Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
> Pelham had his artillery?
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt.
> G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
> God. --Anonymous
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
> question
>
>
>> Gerry,
>>
>> The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
>> Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
>> where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
>> emeged
>> from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
>> to
>> the Carmen-Cope maps.
>>
>> Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
>> northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
>> Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
>> reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the
>> Cornfield
>> using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence
>> to
>> where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
>> location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with
>> no
>> vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
>> Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side
>> where
>> Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6
>> am,
>> to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade,
>> the
>> stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other,
>> and
>> finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked
>> 3
>> hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in
>> that
>> most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This
>> corner
>> was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
>> other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what
>> you
>> can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can
>> you
>> see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
>> restrictive the terrain could be.
>>
>> Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
>> other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
>>
>> Ron Dickey
>>
>> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Gang,
>>>
>>> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
>>> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall
>>> 2006
>>> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
>>> the
>>> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
>>>
>>> I write with three main requests:
>>> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
>>> the
>>> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
>>> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
>>> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
>>> permission to do so?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>>
>>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>  c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service.
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

<<Tom,

Thanks! Would you be willing to join the CWDG Fall Muster attendees at
Sharpsburg on Sunday, October 15th, to lend your expertise?
Yr. Obt. Svt. G E "Gerry" Mayers>>

Gerry,

I'll certainly make it a point to keep that date open. I always enjoy stomping
those fields.
Is there any itinerary yet? How many attendees are you estimating?

Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rededication Ceremony Planned for Maryland Monument at Antietam
Governor’s Commission on Maryland Military Monuments will celebrate the
$300,000 restoration project

ANNAPOLIS – On Saturday, June 3 Maryland historians, military veterans,
and Civil War enthusiasts are welcome to attend the rededication of the
Maryland Monument at Antietam National Battlefield in Sharpsburg,
Maryland. The ceremony will honor the history of the 106 year-old
monument and celebrate its recent renovation and repairs that reopened
it to the public.

WHO:             Brian M. Thacker, Medal of Honor Recipient
                        William Donald Schaefer, Comptroller of Maryland
                        Major General Bruce Tuxill, Maryland National
Guard Adjutant General
                        Mary D. Kane, Secretary of State
                        George Owings, Secretary of Veterans Affairs
                        Senator Donald F. Munson, Maryland General
Assembly
                        Governor’s Commission on Maryland Military
Monuments
                        Maryland National Guard Band and Honor Guard
                        A host of elected officials

WHEN:          Saturday, June 3, 2006
                        1:00 p.m.          Ceremony & Ribbon Cutting

WHERE:       Maryland Monument at Antietam
                        Antietam National Battlefield
                        Sharpsburg, Maryland 21782


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ron,

Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail.  Yesterday (Memorial Day
weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4.  It was early Sunday
morning -- hazy but sunny; beautiful.  As you predicted, I encountered
no one, although I did meet a fox, trotting along the northern
fenceline, that bounded off into the wheat when it saw me.  It's only
when one walks the ground that one sees how deceptively contured
Miller's fields are.  What looks like level ground from the road is
really a quirky patchwork of undulations.  It would compartmentalize any
small-unit action here, the enemy appearing and disappearing from a
soldier's view as he moved forward.

The trail, after running east, turns north again towards Mansfield
Ave/Poffenberger lane.  In this vicinity,  at "the northwest angle" of
the woods and cornfield the artist Frank H. Schell [Battles & Leaders]
sketched Confederate wounded, including "a tall, young Georgian with a
shattered ankle" sitting next to his dead father.  Would these have been
members of Colquitt's command?

David


--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...> wrote:
>
> Gerry,
>
> The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
> Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
> where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
> from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
> the Carmen-Cope maps.
>
> Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
> northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
> Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
> reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
> using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
> where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
> location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
> vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
> Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
> Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
> to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
> stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
> finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
> hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
> most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
> was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
> other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
> can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
> see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
> restrictive the terrain could be.
>
> Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
> other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
>
> Ron Dickey
>
> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" gerry1952@ wrote:
> >
> > Gang,
> >
> > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
> > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
> > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
> > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
> >
> > I write with three main requests:
> > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
the
> > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
> > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
> > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
> > permission to do so?
> >
> >
>

More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>

Dear Tom,

Please go to the CWDG Online Forums and look for the Musters category.
The MMFL, aka Allan Shikhvarg, is in charge of the Gettysburg Fall
Muster each year and has posted a schedule for the weekend in
question.

Seeing that you are also no slouch with Gettysburg, perhaps you might
be interested??

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: <RoteBaron@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites


> <<Tom,
>
> Thanks! Would you be willing to join the CWDG Fall Muster attendees
> at
> Sharpsburg on Sunday, October 15th, to lend your expertise?
> Yr. Obt. Svt. G E "Gerry" Mayers>>
>
> Gerry,
>
> I'll certainly make it a point to keep that date open. I always
> enjoy stomping those fields.
> Is there any itinerary yet? How many attendees are you estimating?
>
> Tom Shay
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

"Those Arms Were Not Lost in Vain": Union Soldiers and the Price of Freedom

Date: June 24, 2006
Time: 3:00 p.m.
Location: Pry House Field Hospital Museum, Antietam National Battlefield
Contact: Kari E. Turner, 301-695-1864 ext. 15

The devastating effects of advances in weaponry, coupled with adherence to
outmoded military tactics, placed the Civil War soldier at risk for wounds and
injuries resulting in significant, permanent disability and pain. Without an
established system (i.e., the modern-day Veterans Administration) that would
provide ongoing healthcare and rehabilitation services after war’s end, the
seriously wounded Union veteran faced an uncertain future. Yet, the men who
fought in the Civil War carried a distinction that not only endured, but also
apparently deepened, as they lived out the rest of their lives.

It is the positive aspects of the war experience for veterans that are often
underappreciated, and by examining how the Union soldier viewed his service to
the nation we can gain insight into this contemporary issue. This is the subject
of work currently being explored by Dr. Stephen Goldman. In this intriguing
lecture, Dr. Goldman will present his current research on Union soldiers,
focusing on the impact of combat and military service on veteran’s lives.

POSTED BY: Tom Shay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest
includes this incident in his Antietam book.  Priest says that Frank
Schell sketched the wounded Confederate and his dead father shortly
after the artist  "crossed the left of the 21 Georgia's former line"
(page 167).   The 21st GA, part of Trimble's [Walker's] brigade, had
been sent forward to shore up  Lawton and Ripley's line between Mumma's
lane and the Cornfield.




--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
wrote:
>
> More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
> >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes that makes sense too.  Good.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> camdensquare@... 05/30/06 5:03 PM >>>

Dear Tom,

To which were you commenting that something made sense and good??????

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path
sitesand question


> Yes that makes sense too.  Good.
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
>>>> camdensquare@... 05/30/06 5:03 PM >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Sorry Gerry, the correction about the 21st GA in the sketck.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> gerry1952@... 05/31/06 10:07 PM >>>

Tom;

Thanks.

BTW, if someone wanted to get onto Nicodemus Heights or get over to
the Locher cabin, how would one be able to do so?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path
sitesandquestion


> Sorry Gerry, the correction about the 21st GA in the sketck.
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
>>>> gerry1952@... 05/31/06 10:07 PM >>>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
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Locher cabin is NPS owned, walk along the fence southward until you find
a gate and go through it.  Nicodemus Hts. is under easement but
privately owned.  Owners permission is required, and they can be
finnicky.   Is this for your fall tour?

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> gerry1952@... 06/01/06 9:53 AM >>>

Tom, yes, both are.

Where is the fence you mentioned for the Locher cabin? How can one
safely reach it across SR 65?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten
pathsitesandquestion


> Locher cabin is NPS owned, walk along the fence southward until you
> find
> a gate and go through it.  Nicodemus Hts. is under easement but
> privately owned.  Owners permission is required, and they can be
> finnicky.   Is this for your fall tour?
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
>>>> gerry1952@... 06/01/06 9:53 AM >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Posted by Tom Shay from Antietam Partner News:

Antietam Ranger Retires After 25 Years
by Park Historian Ted Alexander

  In June of this year the “Cannonball Circuit” of the National Park Service is
losing a living legend – Paul Vernon Chiles. Well, actually, he is just retiring
but will still be around. Indeed, we are losing a great ranger and historian but
gaining a researcher and author, as Paul will be working on a number of book and
article ideas in his retirement.

Paul Chiles hails from Omaha, Nebraska. A Vietnam era veteran, he served a tour
in the U.S. Army, commanding infantry training. He was discharged with the rank
of Captain. He served briefly with the Veterans Administration and then decided
to make a move to the National Park Service. After stints of duty at Gettysburg
and Badlands National Park he arrived at Antietam in 1981 to fill the position
of Interpretive Specialist.

Paul’s accomplishments during his tenure have been many. One of the big visitor
attractions at Antietam Battlefield over the past 25 years has been the summer
schedule of cannon and musket demonstrations. Paul developed and oversaw many of
these programs. One of the most endearing of his costumed interpretive
productions has been the annual torchlight tour featuring a large Union army
camp that Paul and former Antietam ranger, Mike Stuckey, implemented in the
spring of 1985. In 1987, Paul and several living history volunteers developed
the “Aftermath of Battle” torchlight tour that continues today.

Perhaps Paul’s greatest claim to fame is his vast knowledge of historic weapons.
His affection for Civil War artillery, and genius in that field, has earned him
the nickname from one Civil War historian of “Cannonball Chiles.” In fact,
whenever a visitor has a weapons question, particularly regarding artillery,
they are promptly turned over to Paul. His expertise in the field has garnered
him roles as a talking head on several film documentaries as well as invitations
to speak before historical associations all over the country. He is also the
author of a major piece on artillery at Antietam for Blue and Gray Magazine.

What has been mentioned here are the professional accomplishments of Paul
Chiles. However, he has other qualities that far exceed the professional realm.
Paul is a true gentleman. Hundreds of people learn this everyday as they gain
their first impression of Antietam National Battlefield from the smiling
friendly ranger from Nebraska who greets them at the door.

Let’s wish Paul much success in his retirement and many thanks for a job well
done in a distinguished career with the National Park Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In fact, whenever a visitor has a weapons question, particularly regarding
artillery, they are promptly turned over to Paul.

I was one of them.  Thank you Paul!!!!

Richard Croker
----- Original Message -----
From: <RoteBaron@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:48 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Paul Chiles retires after 25 years


Posted by Tom Shay from Antietam Partner News:

Antietam Ranger Retires After 25 Years
by Park Historian Ted Alexander

  In June of this year the "Cannonball Circuit" of the National Park Service
is losing a living legend - Paul Vernon Chiles. Well, actually, he is just
retiring but will still be around. Indeed, we are losing a great ranger and
historian but gaining a researcher and author, as Paul will be working on a
number of book and article ideas in his retirement.

Paul Chiles hails from Omaha, Nebraska. A Vietnam era veteran, he served a
tour in the U.S. Army, commanding infantry training. He was discharged with
the rank of Captain. He served briefly with the Veterans Administration and
then decided to make a move to the National Park Service. After stints of
duty at Gettysburg and Badlands National Park he arrived at Antietam in 1981
to fill the position of Interpretive Specialist.

Paul's accomplishments during his tenure have been many. One of the big
visitor attractions at Antietam Battlefield over the past 25 years has been
the summer schedule of cannon and musket demonstrations. Paul developed and
oversaw many of these programs. One of the most endearing of his costumed
interpretive productions has been the annual torchlight tour featuring a
large Union army camp that Paul and former Antietam ranger, Mike Stuckey,
implemented in the spring of 1985. In 1987, Paul and several living history
volunteers developed the "Aftermath of Battle" torchlight tour that
continues today.

Perhaps Paul's greatest claim to fame is his vast knowledge of historic
weapons. His affection for Civil War artillery, and genius in that field,
has earned him the nickname from one Civil War historian of "Cannonball
Chiles." In fact, whenever a visitor has a weapons question, particularly
regarding artillery, they are promptly turned over to Paul. His expertise in
the field has garnered him roles as a talking head on several film
documentaries as well as invitations to speak before historical associations
all over the country. He is also the author of a major piece on artillery at
Antietam for Blue and Gray Magazine.

What has been mentioned here are the professional accomplishments of Paul
Chiles. However, he has other qualities that far exceed the professional
realm. Paul is a true gentleman. Hundreds of people learn this everyday as
they gain their first impression of Antietam National Battlefield from the
smiling friendly ranger from Nebraska who greets them at the door.

Let's wish Paul much success in his retirement and many thanks for a job
well done in a distinguished career with the National Park Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Yahoo! Groups Links

Uh, look both ways, hold hands, and run like hell!  :-)

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> gerry1952@... 06/01/06 1:13 PM >>>

Tom;

LOL. Precisely where is the spot to gain access to the Locher cabin
located?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off
beatenpathsitesandquestion


> Uh, look both ways, hold hands, and run like hell!  :-)
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
>>>> gerry1952@... 06/01/06 1:13 PM >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
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>
>  c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

We can always count on Tom for top drawer advice!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off
beatenpathsitesandquestion


> Uh, look both ways, hold hands, and run like hell!  :-)
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
> >>> gerry1952@... 06/01/06 1:13 PM >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Go through the West Woods, and the Locher Cabin is almost directly
across the bypass from the 15 MA monument.  Proceed south, towards
Sharpsburg, and you'll see the gate in the fence near the Locher Barn.
This is the home marked as Alfred Poffenberger on many battle maps.

Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> gerry1952@... 06/02/06 8:34 AM >>>

Hi folk,

I saw a photo and discussion about a bronze 6-pounder gun tube in the
grass "behind" the Antietam Natl Cemetery here:
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/forums/ViewPost.aspx?ForumID=44&ID=5948

This seems at least a little odd.  I can't believe the Park Service
knows about this, and if so, that the gun isn't be better
secured/protected/displayed ...

Anybody know anything about this?  Or perhaps recommend someone at the
Park to ask?

Of course, the Battle of Antietam was noted for several "loose cannons".

Is it the aftermath of some wild retirement party for "Cannonball Chiles"?
:)

Seriously, it sure is out-of-the-ordinary to see a tube lying around like
that. Keep us posted if an explanation is found.

Tom Shay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:57 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Cannon tubes just lying around?


Hi folk,

I saw a photo and discussion about a bronze 6-pounder gun tube in the
grass "behind" the Antietam Natl Cemetery here:
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/forums/ViewPost.aspx?ForumID=44&ID=5948

This seems at least a little odd.  I can't believe the Park Service
knows about this, and if so, that the gun isn't be better
secured/protected/displayed ...

Anybody know anything about this?  Or perhaps recommend someone at the
Park to ask?









Yahoo! Groups Links

When I was there last November, there were at least 3 tubes laying there
near the wooden staircase.



Harry



-----Original Message-----
From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Brian Downey
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:58 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TalkAntietam] Cannon tubes just lying around?



Hi folk,

I saw a photo and discussion about a bronze 6-pounder gun tube in the
grass "behind" the Antietam Natl Cemetery here:
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/forums/ViewPost.aspx?ForumID=44
<http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/forums/ViewPost.aspx?ForumID=44&ID=594
8> &ID=5948

This seems at least a little odd.  I can't believe the Park Service
knows about this, and if so, that the gun isn't be better
secured/protected/displayed ...

Anybody know anything about this?  Or perhaps recommend someone at the
Park to ask?












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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The maintenance area adjoins the cemertery and they often have tubes
"dumped" there while carriages are being painted, repaired, etc.  The
two cement strips next the left side appear to be mounts for the
carriage commonly used with placing cannon on the field, so it is
logical that they dumped this while removing the carriage.  I was told
tonight at Paul's retirement party that there is some reallocation of
guns being made around the park, and no doubt refurbishing of carriages
also.
To lift that tube would take several burly fellows, the tube is likely
850+ pounds.  Any vehicle lifting it would have to pass through the
maintenance area and a couple gates, so it is a relatively secure place,
and all the data about it is on record.
Tom Clemens
Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
Professor of History
Hagerstown Community College


>>> hjs21@... 06/02/06 5:10 PM >>>

Posted by Tom Shay from today's Hagerstown Herald Mail....

In his 25 years at Antietam National Battlefield, Paul Chiles fielded all types
of questions from visitors.  Some of them were unintentionally comical. Did the
Civil War battle happen before or after World War II?  Was the Battle of
Antietam before or after Gettysburg?  Why were there so many battles fought at
national parks?

Chiles, ranger/historian, said the most asked question had nothing to do with
the Sept. 17, 1862, battle, but rather, a human necessity: Where's the restroom?
The questions all were part of the job for Chiles, a career he said was fun
because he was able to help people by educating them.

Chiles, 57, retired from the National Park Service on Wednesday. His retirement
came about two years early, but it was a move that was necessary in order to
help take care of his ailing mother in Nebraska. He plans to split time between
his home in Inwood, W.Va., and Omaha, where he was born.

Chiles said he got "bit by the Civil War bug" as a kid growing up in Omaha.
While much of his history lessons in school focused on westward expansion,
Chiles was able to work two summers at Gettysburg National Military Park during
his college years.

Chiles spent time doing research, talks, tours and demonstrations as a seasonal
ranger/historian. "I had so much fun doing that that, I decided I wanted to make
that my career," Chiles said. After receiving a bachelor's degree in American
history from the University of Nebraska in 1971, he served time in the U.S.
Army, worked for the Veterans Administration in Denver, and five years as an
intake ranger trainee and interpretive specialist at Badlands National Park in
South Dakota.

What would become his dream job opened up at Antietam in May 1981. Chiles said
he wanted to work at a Civil War park, and "Antietam worked out to be just
ideal."  While Gettysburg is more recognized, has more monuments, land and
tourists, Chiles said there's something different about Antietam's visitors. 
Despite some humorous questions, many know their Civil War history.  "We're not
as well-known as Gettysburg, and the visitors that come here tend to be more
serious," Chiles said. "They ask better questions. That helps make it fun and
interesting."

Chiles said he also enjoyed being able to direct Antietam visitors with family
members who fought in the battle to their graves or places where their regiments
might have been on the battlefield.  The battle, in which more than 23,000 men
were wounded or killed in a day, led to Abraham Lincoln's issuing the
Emancipation Proclamation. Antietam was the bloodiest single-day battle in
American history.  Chiles said the battlefield's pastoral scene is a contrast to
its violent history.  "If you remove - in your imagination - the monuments and
asphalt and telephone poles, it's essentially what it was like in 1862," Chiles
said. "It's hard to believe there's so much wreckage here."

Though Chiles has retired, he is not leaving the battlefield behind. He plans to
work on a book, "Artillery at Antietam," and on a database of Antietam
statistics during the battle.  "I'm not going to vegetate in front of the TV,
that's for sure," Chiles said.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Tom! That helps a lot! Are there any brochures available at the
VC about the Locher cabin, etc.?

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield
offbeatenpathsitesandquestion


> Go through the West Woods, and the Locher Cabin is almost directly
> across the bypass from the 15 MA monument.  Proceed south, towards
> Sharpsburg, and you'll see the gate in the fence near the Locher
> Barn.
> This is the home marked as Alfred Poffenberger on many battle maps.
>
> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
> Professor of History
> Hagerstown Community College
>
>
>>>> gerry1952@... 06/02/06 8:34 AM >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
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Gerry,

There is a short article in the Blue & Gray Magazine  ("West Woods" edition)
regarding the discovery that it was within NPS boundaries.

I have some Locher Farm photos on my CWRT website at:
http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/antietam_2005_05_01/antietam_may_1_2005.\
htm

Tom Shay



----- Original Message -----
From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield offbeatenpathsitesandquestion

Are there any brochures available at the VC about the Locher cabin, etc.?

Yr. Obt. Svt. G E "Gerry" Mayers

Tom;

Please contact me privately re the article. Thanks.

Yr. Obt. Svt.
G E "Gerry" Mayers

To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
God. --Anonymous
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <RoteBaron@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield
offbeatenpathsitesandquestion


> Gerry,
>
> There is a short article in the Blue & Gray Magazine  ("West Woods"
> edition)
> regarding the discovery that it was within NPS boundaries.
>
> I have some Locher Farm photos on my CWRT website at:
>
http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/antietam_2005_05_01/antietam_may_1_2005.\
htm
>
> Tom Shay
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield
> offbeatenpathsitesandquestion
>
> Are there any brochures available at the VC about the Locher cabin,
> etc.?
>
> Yr. Obt. Svt. G E "Gerry" Mayers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history  Civil war battles  Civil war
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  a..  Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
>
>  b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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