Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as well! Great
going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot the order was
foun absolutely known?
Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam]


> Hello again, Mary,
>
> It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a tumultuous arrival
in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis Steiner west of
town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood," 237, cited to
Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and Confederate
Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
>
> Using period county maps and land records I now intend to pinpoint this
property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at the National
Archives.
>
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The precise spot of its finding will never be known because personnel of the
27th Indiana were not that specific. However, it was definitely found near to
the intersection of South and Franklin streets. A section of my latest book
discusses all this ad nauseum. If you'd like I could send that section w/map as
an email attachment.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Hawthorne
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/11/2004 8:13:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as well! Great
going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot the order was
foun absolutely known?
Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
Subject: [TalkAntietam]


> Hello again, Mary,
>
> It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a tumultuous arrival
in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis Steiner west of
town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood," 237, cited to
Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and Confederate
Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
>
> Using period county maps and land records I now intend to pinpoint this
property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at the National
Archives.
>
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary and Tim,

Try the Frederick County Historical Society Library located on
Church Street in town. They have a fantastic set of resources as
well which might be of assistance.

The curator of the County Historical Society is Heidi
Campbell-Shoaf.

I remain,
Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
Corporal,
Confederate Signal Corps,
Longstreet's Corps

"It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
else we shall grow too fond of it."
--Robert E. Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Hawthorne" <tbonemusic@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
well! Great
> going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
the order was
> foun absolutely known?
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Hello again, Mary,
> >
> > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
tumultuous arrival
> in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
Steiner west of
> town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
237, cited to
> Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
Confederate
> Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> >
> > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
pinpoint this
> property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
the National
> Archives.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
>
>   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>

Thanks, Reb. Heidi is my next door neighbor. Small world.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: NJ Rebel
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/11/2004 8:20:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


Mary and Tim,

Try the Frederick County Historical Society Library located on
Church Street in town. They have a fantastic set of resources as
well which might be of assistance.

The curator of the County Historical Society is Heidi
Campbell-Shoaf.

I remain,
Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
Corporal,
Confederate Signal Corps,
Longstreet's Corps

"It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
else we shall grow too fond of it."
--Robert E. Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Hawthorne" <tbonemusic@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
well! Great
> going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
the order was
> foun absolutely known?
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Hello again, Mary,
> >
> > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
tumultuous arrival
> in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
Steiner west of
> town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
237, cited to
> Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
Confederate
> Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> >
> > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
pinpoint this
> property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
the National
> Archives.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
>
>   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a reply I was sending directly to talkantietam but was not sent due to my
email bouncing, I suggested that. But also Tim's credentials, I'm sure he
knows that place well!
Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> Mary and Tim,
>
> Try the Frederick County Historical Society Library located on
> Church Street in town. They have a fantastic set of resources as
> well which might be of assistance.
>
> The curator of the County Historical Society is Heidi
> Campbell-Shoaf.
>
> I remain,
> Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
> G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
> Corporal,
> Confederate Signal Corps,
> Longstreet's Corps
>
> "It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
> else we shall grow too fond of it."
> --Robert E. Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Hawthorne" <tbonemusic@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
> well! Great
> > going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
> the order was
> > foun absolutely known?
> > Mary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> > To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> > Subject: [TalkAntietam]
> >
> >
> > > Hello again, Mary,
> > >
> > > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
> tumultuous arrival
> > in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
> Steiner west of
> > town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
> 237, cited to
> > Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
> Confederate
> > Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> > >
> > > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
> pinpoint this
> > property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
> the National
> > Archives.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
> >
> >   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dear Tim,

As to the location of the finding of SO 191, there are some who
will disagree with you.

NJ Rebel is my email name but not my real name.....

I remain,
Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
Corporal,
Confederate Signal Corps,
Longstreet's Corps

"It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
else we shall grow too fond of it."
--Robert E. Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> The precise spot of its finding will never be known because
personnel of the 27th Indiana were not that specific. However, it
was definitely found near to the intersection of South and
Franklin streets. A section of my latest book discusses all this
ad nauseum. If you'd like I could send that section w/map as an
email attachment.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Hawthorne
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 7/11/2004 8:13:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
well! Great
> going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
the order was
> foun absolutely known?
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Hello again, Mary,
> >
> > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
tumultuous arrival
> in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
Steiner west of
> town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
237, cited to
> Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
Confederate
> Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> >
> > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
pinpoint this
> property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
the National
> Archives.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
>
>   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>

LOL  on your small world!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Hawthorne" <tbonemusic@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> In a reply I was sending directly to talkantietam but was not sent due to
my
> email bouncing, I suggested that. But also Tim's credentials, I'm sure he
> knows that place well!
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Mary and Tim,
> >
> > Try the Frederick County Historical Society Library located on
> > Church Street in town. They have a fantastic set of resources as
> > well which might be of assistance.
> >
> > The curator of the County Historical Society is Heidi
> > Campbell-Shoaf.
> >
> > I remain,
> > Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
> > G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
> > Corporal,
> > Confederate Signal Corps,
> > Longstreet's Corps
> >
> > "It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
> > else we shall grow too fond of it."
> > --Robert E. Lee
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mary Hawthorne" <tbonemusic@...>
> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
> >
> >
> > > Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
> > well! Great
> > > going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
> > the order was
> > > foun absolutely known?
> > > Mary
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> > > To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam]
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello again, Mary,
> > > >
> > > > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
> > tumultuous arrival
> > > in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
> > Steiner west of
> > > town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
> > 237, cited to
> > > Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
> > Confederate
> > > Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> > > >
> > > > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
> > pinpoint this
> > > property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
> > the National
> > > Archives.
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >             ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
> > >
> > >   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> > of Service.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Which is understandable since no unit historian was precise in their
location. But, seems to me when they camped, didn't they camp as close to a
brigade unit as possibe? Also it seems to me that some one in the brigade
would be close to where they were that day. Just a presumption on my part.
Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> Dear Tim,
>
> As to the location of the finding of SO 191, there are some who
> will disagree with you.
>
> NJ Rebel is my email name but not my real name.....
>
> I remain,
> Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
> G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
> Corporal,
> Confederate Signal Corps,
> Longstreet's Corps
>
> "It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
> else we shall grow too fond of it."
> --Robert E. Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > The precise spot of its finding will never be known because
> personnel of the 27th Indiana were not that specific. However, it
> was definitely found near to the intersection of South and
> Franklin streets. A section of my latest book discusses all this
> ad nauseum. If you'd like I could send that section w/map as an
> email attachment.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mary Hawthorne
> > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: 7/11/2004 8:13:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
> >
> >
> > Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
> well! Great
> > going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
> the order was
> > foun absolutely known?
> > Mary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> > To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> > Subject: [TalkAntietam]
> >
> >
> > > Hello again, Mary,
> > >
> > > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
> tumultuous arrival
> > in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
> Steiner west of
> > town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
> 237, cited to
> > Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
> Confederate
> > Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> > >
> > > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
> pinpoint this
> > property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
> the National
> > Archives.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
> >
> >   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >   TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Gerry,

There are those who will disagree about the sun rising in the east, but there it
still rises. I presume you mean the good folks at Monocacy National Battlefield.
Unfortunately they willingly subscribe to an old myth about the order being
found on the John T. Best farm.

Edmund Brown, 27th Indiana historian (1899), was there that day as a private in
Co. C. After thorough consultation on such matters with his regtl. comrades he
recorded:

             "On the 13th we moved by the direct road to Frederick. This took us
immediately past Mr. [William] Clay’s house, in whose orchard we had camped the
previous December. Looking northward, we could plainly see our deserted cabins
of the previous winter; in fact some of the boys on the skirmish line passed
among them.
             The bulk of Lee’s army had been at Frederick up to a very recent
period. We were liable at any time to encounter rebel scouts or outposts. As the
Twenty-seventh led the column, expecting any moment to sight an enemy, though
passing over this ground, where we had formerly felt so secure, and which,
indeed, almost seemed like home to us, the sudden and violent changes which the
fortunes of war may being about were forcibly impressed upon us.
             There being no bridge over the Monocacy, on this road, we forded
that stream. The water was only knee-deep, and warm, so it was no hardship,
except to our already badly-worn shoes and tattered pants when we came up with
our wagons at Washington. To plunge into the water in the river, and then into
the dust, shoe-mouth deep, on the other side, caused them to make wry faces, but
they did not flinch.
             When we emerged from the timber east of the Monocacy, we saw smoke
rising from several pieces of artillery, engaged in the open country west of
Frederick. It was now clear that no enemy would be encountered short of that
point. But, with skirmishers still deployed in our front, we moved on and
finally halted in a clover field, adjoining the city on the south.
             The weather was very beautiful. As we lay down upon the clean grass,
we did so with a sense of relaxation and enjoyment that soldiers do not always
have when taking a short rest. Still, something of very great importance was
about to transpire. This was nothing less than the finding, by a member of the
Twenty-seventh, of the now famous and historic Lost Dispatch, or Order No. 191."

This locale lies two miles distant from the Best farm, the latter lacking the
slightest scrap of credible evidence to the contrary. Extraordinary claims
require extraordinary evidence. Until such time as this unlikely appears,
Brown's chronicle remains irrefutable. Popular storytelling pales in comparison
to documented fact.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: NJ Rebel
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/11/2004 8:26:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


Dear Tim,

As to the location of the finding of SO 191, there are some who
will disagree with you.

NJ Rebel is my email name but not my real name.....

I remain,
Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
Corporal,
Confederate Signal Corps,
Longstreet's Corps

"It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
else we shall grow too fond of it."
--Robert E. Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> The precise spot of its finding will never be known because
personnel of the 27th Indiana were not that specific. However, it
was definitely found near to the intersection of South and
Franklin streets. A section of my latest book discusses all this
ad nauseum. If you'd like I could send that section w/map as an
email attachment.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Hawthorne
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 7/11/2004 8:13:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> Frederick County Court House might be of some assistance as
well! Great
> going! Now to refresh my memory, Is the location of the spot
the order was
> foun absolutely known?
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:55 PM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Hello again, Mary,
> >
> > It seems I was able to answer my own question. After a
tumultuous arrival
> in Frederick, GBM established HQ on the farm of Dr. Lewis
Steiner west of
> town. This is stated in Joseph Harsh's "Taken at the Flood,"
237, cited to
> Paul E. Steiner, "Medical-Military Portraits of Union and
Confederate
> Generals," Phila.: Whitmore, 1968.
> >
> > Using period county maps and land records I now intend to
pinpoint this
> property, perhaps even track down a possible war claim filed at
the National
> Archives.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
> >
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Except that Mac's reputation had already been establish long before
Sears' birth, of course.

Which doesn't excuse, of course, any sloppiness on Sears' part, but it's
not like he created some myth about Little Mac.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Reese [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:11 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]

You're more than welcome, Mary. GBM was indeed on the move that day, at
least until he reached Frederick. The overwhelming outpouring of relief
and welcome from the citizenry no doubt compelled him to opt for an HQ
outside of town to avoid being inundated. I'm trying to determine where
exactly.

Throughout his literary career Sears has played fast and loose with
source citation, hence consistent errors. The Gettysburg book was no
better nor worse than those preceding. Dimitri Rotov (The Civil War
Bookshelf website) accurately characterizes him as a "mass-market
storyteller." I must concur. In a November email exchange he pleaded
that he is not an academic historian. In reply I retorted that neither
am I, but we can endeavor to get our facts straight. It's called
intellectual honesty.

A common excuse for GBM's protracted length of time in studying/reacting
to the Lost Order is the purported distance between where it was found
and where his HQ were. See http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id3.html
for the former. As circumstances become more clear GBM's locale would
shed further light on the sequence of events in consideration of time
frame.

Truth is that thanks to Sears, and others of his ilk, the Md. campaign
has been grossly misunderstood in many key respects. Storytellers
naturally need a protagonist and antagonist around which to build their
stories. GBM obviously and routinely serves as the latter, a whipping
boy to blame for campaign happenstance. Complex questions deserve more
than simplistic answers. In time the whole picture will look far
different than what we've been led to believe.

Now, if I could only pinpoint his HQ of the 13th...

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Hawthorne
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/11/2004 6:47:11 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


Thanks Tim. After I wrote that reply I thought to myself that you may
have
wanted a specific location like a house or what ever. This may sound
kind of
funny knowing GBM, but could the lack of a specific locale be because he
was
on the move? As for Sears, I hear his one on Gettysburg is loaded with
mistakes. I am relatively new in studying positions of troops and really
need to get the perspective of other historians as well. As to the study
of
where the order was found, yes that is intriguing!
Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


> Hi Mary,
>
> Thanks for the input. The Lincoln telegram you refer to was not sent
almost immediately after McClellan received the Lost Order. It was in
fact
sent twelve hours later at midnight. See
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mal:7:./temp/~ammem_D8Mf:: for
digital
photo of original document. Also see AotW article at
http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=358 for corrected 9/13 scenario.
All
too often Sears is inexcusably sloppy with his sources, this being a
salient
example.
>
> We know GBM established HQ outside Frederick on the 13th, but where?
It is
my hope that someone out there knows of an obscure reference citing a
specific locale: house, farm or whatever. This established, one can then
measure the distance between that and the order's point of discovery at
the
southeast edge of town. Intriguing, don't you think?
>
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Hawthorne
> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 7/11/2004 5:53:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> According to Stephen Sears in "Landscape Turned Red" oh page 113,
MacCellan
> replied to Lincoln about a previous communication from Frederick, MD.
His
> reply to Lincoln was almost immediately after receiving the "lost
order"
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:24 PM
> Subject: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
> > Here's a brain teaser for all you devotees. Where were McClellan's
> headquarters located on Saturday, September 13, 1862, the day he
acquired
> the "Lost Order"? The general had moved toward Frederick, MD via the
> National Turnpike and was conversing with several businessmen of that
city
> when the order was brought to him. I don't claim to know the locale.
Maybe
> someone out there does.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>








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----- Original Message -----
   From: Tim Reese
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:28 PM
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


   Hi Mary,

   Thanks for the input. The Lincoln telegram you refer to was not sent almost
immediately after McClellan received the Lost Order. It was in fact sent twelve
hours later at midnight. See
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mal:7:./temp/~ammem_D8Mf:: for digital
photo of original document. Also see AotW article at
http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=358 for corrected 9/13 scenario. All too
often Sears is inexcusably sloppy with his sources, this being a salient
example.

   Your knowledge of 19th Century time needs some improvement. Here is the line
from the link you provided:

   Frederick, September 13, 1862--12 M (Received 2.35 a.m., September 14.)

   If you notice it says 12 M. The M does NOT stand for Midnight. It means
Meridan the same as the M in AM (Anti-Meridan {before Midday}) and the M in PM
(Post Meridan {after Midday}). Meridan is to put it simply  NOON.

   OG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ollie,

Yes, "12M" is how it was transcribed in the OR, as per the footnote in
the article referred to.  We'd all agree that means noon.  But that's
not what the telegram actually says.

I have a digital copy of the telegram (original at the L of C) form as
it was received at the War Department, too, in case the link to the
Library of Congress doesn't work for you:
http://aotw.org/images/mc_lincoln_telegram.jpg

It's pretty clearly "Midnight".

It also helps explain why the telegram wasn't officially received at
the War Department til 2:35am.

Tim, by the way, is the first person I've heard of who's noticed this.
  Apparently no one else has bothered to look at the telegram in recent
years, I don't know why.  Perhaps it was easier to take the OR at face
value.  Heck, we all do that.

The article he cited does a pretty fair job of analyzing what this
might mean, and is worth a look.

Brian

On 13 Jul 2004 at 22:17, Ollie wrote:


>   Your knowledge of 19th Century time needs some improvement. Here
is the line from the link you provided:
>
>   Frederick, September 13, 1862--12 M (Received 2.35 a.m., September
14.)
>
>   If you notice it says 12 M. The M does NOT stand for Midnight. It
means Meridan the same as the M in AM
>  (Anti-Meridan {before Midday}) and the M in PM (Post Meridan {after
Midday}). >  Meridan is to put it simply  NOON.
>
>   OG

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Ollie" <oliverg25@h...> wrote:
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Tim Reese
>   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:28 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
>   Hi Mary,
>
>   Thanks for the input. The Lincoln telegram you refer to was not
sent almost immediately after McClellan received the Lost Order. It
was in fact sent twelve hours later at midnight. See
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mal:7:./temp/~ammem_D8Mf:: for
digital photo of original document. Also see AotW article at
http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=358 for corrected 9/13
scenario. All too often Sears is inexcusably sloppy with his sources,
this being a salient example.
>
>   Your knowledge of 19th Century time needs some improvement. Here
is the line from the link you provided:
>
>   Frederick, September 13, 1862--12 M (Received 2.35 a.m., September
14.)
>
>   If you notice it says 12 M. The M does NOT stand for Midnight. It
means Meridan the same as the M in AM (Anti-Meridan {before Midday})
and the M in PM (Post Meridan {after Midday}). Meridan is to put it
simply  NOON.
>
>   OG
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ollie,

If you check out the links I provided Mary you'll see that the Lincoln telegram
was sent at MIDNIGHT. Case closed. Like many others, you fell for Sears'
theorizing.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Ollie
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/12/2004 10:17:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Tim Reese
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:28 PM
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


   Hi Mary,

   Thanks for the input. The Lincoln telegram you refer to was not sent almost
immediately after McClellan received the Lost Order. It was in fact sent twelve
hours later at midnight. See
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mal:7:./temp/~ammem_D8Mf:: for digital
photo of original document. Also see AotW article at
http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=358 for corrected 9/13 scenario. All too
often Sears is inexcusably sloppy with his sources, this being a salient
example.

   Your knowledge of 19th Century time needs some improvement. Here is the line
from the link you provided:

   Frederick, September 13, 1862--12 M (Received 2.35 a.m., September 14.)

   If you notice it says 12 M. The M does NOT stand for Midnight. It means
Meridan the same as the M in AM (Anti-Meridan {before Midday}) and the M in PM
(Post Meridan {after Midday}). Meridan is to put it simply  NOON.

   OG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
   From: Brian Downey
   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:55 PM
   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


   Hi Ollie,

   Yes, "12M" is how it was transcribed in the OR, as per the footnote in
   the article referred to.  We'd all agree that means noon.  But that's
   not what the telegram actually says.

   I have a digital copy of the telegram (original at the L of C) form as
   it was received at the War Department, too, in case the link to the
   Library of Congress doesn't work for you:
   http://aotw.org/images/mc_lincoln_telegram.jpg

   It's pretty clearly "Midnight".

   It also helps explain why the telegram wasn't officially received at
   the War Department til 2:35am.

   Tim, by the way, is the first person I've heard of who's noticed this.
   Apparently no one else has bothered to look at the telegram in recent
   years, I don't know why.  Perhaps it was easier to take the OR at face
   value.  Heck, we all do that.

   The article he cited does a pretty fair job of analyzing what this
   might mean, and is worth a look.

   Brian


   Brian.

   Thanks for the link. You are correct, it does clearly say MIDNIGHT.

   Another factor in the delay from midnight to 2:35 AM is the time difference
between Frederick and Washington. This was before the railroad companies set the
standard times so Frederick might have been 30 to 45 minutes behind Washington
time.

   OG


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually the documents in the OR are generally pretty reliable (I'm told)
but the after action reports are more fiction than my book!  To paraphrase
GMc himself, "I would rather fight a hundred battles than write the report
of one."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ollie" <oliverg25@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Downey
>   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
>   Hi Ollie,
>
>   Yes, "12M" is how it was transcribed in the OR, as per the footnote in
>   the article referred to.  We'd all agree that means noon.  But that's
>   not what the telegram actually says.
>
>   I have a digital copy of the telegram (original at the L of C) form as
>   it was received at the War Department, too, in case the link to the
>   Library of Congress doesn't work for you:
>   http://aotw.org/images/mc_lincoln_telegram.jpg
>
>   It's pretty clearly "Midnight".
>
>   It also helps explain why the telegram wasn't officially received at
>   the War Department til 2:35am.
>
>   Tim, by the way, is the first person I've heard of who's noticed this.
>   Apparently no one else has bothered to look at the telegram in recent
>   years, I don't know why.  Perhaps it was easier to take the OR at face
>   value.  Heck, we all do that.
>
>   The article he cited does a pretty fair job of analyzing what this
>   might mean, and is worth a look.
>
>   Brian
>
>
>   Brian.
>
>   Thanks for the link. You are correct, it does clearly say MIDNIGHT.
>
>   Another factor in the delay from midnight to 2:35 AM is the time
difference between Frederick and Washington. This was before the railroad
companies set the standard times so Frederick might have been 30 to 45
minutes behind Washington time.
>
>   OG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 02:37 PM, <richard@...> wrote:

> To paraphrase GMc himself, "I would rather fight a hundred battles than
> write the report
> of one."

If McC were to fight a hundred battles, he'd still be alive today.
Tony Turner

Thanks. I didn't want to have to be the one to make the obvious joke.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony W Turner [mailto:awturner@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:52 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 02:37 PM, <richard@...> wrote:

> To paraphrase GMc himself, "I would rather fight a hundred battles
than
> write the report
> of one."

If McC were to fight a hundred battles, he'd still be alive today.
Tony Turner






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Very astute. ORs are universally reliable. The midnight telegram is an extremely
rare deviation, but only in transcription or rather in its reading. Technically
speaking, LTC Scott made no faux pas with his "M". Meridian remains a town in
Mississippi.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/14/2004 2:37:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


Actually the documents in the OR are generally pretty reliable (I'm told)
but the after action reports are more fiction than my book!  To paraphrase
GMc himself, "I would rather fight a hundred battles than write the report
of one."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ollie" <oliverg25@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Downey
>   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
>   Hi Ollie,
>
>   Yes, "12M" is how it was transcribed in the OR, as per the footnote in
>   the article referred to.  We'd all agree that means noon.  But that's
>   not what the telegram actually says.
>
>   I have a digital copy of the telegram (original at the L of C) form as
>   it was received at the War Department, too, in case the link to the
>   Library of Congress doesn't work for you:
>   http://aotw.org/images/mc_lincoln_telegram.jpg
>
>   It's pretty clearly "Midnight".
>
>   It also helps explain why the telegram wasn't officially received at
>   the War Department til 2:35am.
>
>   Tim, by the way, is the first person I've heard of who's noticed this.
>   Apparently no one else has bothered to look at the telegram in recent
>   years, I don't know why.  Perhaps it was easier to take the OR at face
>   value.  Heck, we all do that.
>
>   The article he cited does a pretty fair job of analyzing what this
>   might mean, and is worth a look.
>
>   Brian
>
>
>   Brian.
>
>   Thanks for the link. You are correct, it does clearly say MIDNIGHT.
>
>   Another factor in the delay from midnight to 2:35 AM is the time
difference between Frederick and Washington. This was before the railroad
companies set the standard times so Frederick might have been 30 to 45
minutes behind Washington time.
>
>   OG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TONY -- Now THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony W Turner" <awturner@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


>
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 02:37 PM, <richard@...> wrote:
>
> > To paraphrase GMc himself, "I would rather fight a hundred battles than
> > write the report
> > of one."
>
> If McC were to fight a hundred battles, he'd still be alive today.
> Tony Turner
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Kind of like Sisyphus having to push that rock up that hill for eternity
-- Mac can't reach Valhalla until he fights his 100 battles.

"Next eon, certainly. Just need the weather to clear up, and before
another millennium passes...."

-----Original Message-----
From: richard@... [mailto:richard@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:18 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]

TONY -- Now THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony W Turner" <awturner@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


>
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 02:37 PM, <richard@...> wrote:
>
> > To paraphrase GMc himself, "I would rather fight a hundred battles
than
> > write the report
> > of one."
>
> If McC were to fight a hundred battles, he'd still be alive today.
> Tony Turner
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







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"Thanks. I didn't want to have to be the one to make the obvious joke."

Ah, that's the Jeff Beckner we know and earnestly like!:>)

Kevin

Jeff Beckner wrote:"Kind of like Sisyphus having to push that rock up that
hill for eternity
-- Mac can't reach Valhalla until he fights his 100 battles."

"Next eon, certainly. Just need the weather to clear up, and before another
millennium passes...."

Not to mention having enough horses, mules, and wagons to get him to the
Pearly Gates of Richmond...er.. Heaven!
Kevin

--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rawlings, Kevin"
<kevin.rawlings@s...> wrote:
>  Jeff Beckner wrote:"Kind of like Sisyphus having to push that
rock up that
> hill for eternity
> -- Mac can't reach Valhalla until he fights his 100 battles."
>
> "Next eon, certainly. Just need the weather to clear up, and
before another
> millennium passes...."
>
> Not to mention having enough horses, mules, and wagons to get him
to the
> Pearly Gates of Richmond...er.. Heaven!
> Kevin

Freudian slip, Kevin? I sense no friends of McClellan hereabouts.

Tim

I'm sorry, Tim. Should that be the Gates of Hades?

Kevin

Sounds good to me, wherever that is. Mac's in New Jersey, which some think the
near equivalent.

-T
----- Original Message -----
From: Rawlings, Kevin
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/14/2004 4:40:51 PM
Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam]


I'm sorry, Tim. Should that be the Gates of Hades?

Kevin







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay guys -- you're gonna LOVE this!

I got an email from a woman in NJ who had read my book.  She had a story she
HAD to tell.  She says that when she was young she had ONE DATE with George
McClellan's g-g-grandson.  And now I quote:  "While this young man may have
inherited his g-g-grandfather's arrogance, he most definitely did NOT have a
case of the slows!"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ollie" <oliverg25@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Downey
>   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
>   Hi Ollie,
>
>   Yes, "12M" is how it was transcribed in the OR, as per the footnote in
>   the article referred to.  We'd all agree that means noon.  But that's
>   not what the telegram actually says.
>
>   I have a digital copy of the telegram (original at the L of C) form as
>   it was received at the War Department, too, in case the link to the
>   Library of Congress doesn't work for you:
>   http://aotw.org/images/mc_lincoln_telegram.jpg
>
>   It's pretty clearly "Midnight".
>
>   It also helps explain why the telegram wasn't officially received at
>   the War Department til 2:35am.
>
>   Tim, by the way, is the first person I've heard of who's noticed this.
>   Apparently no one else has bothered to look at the telegram in recent
>   years, I don't know why.  Perhaps it was easier to take the OR at face
>   value.  Heck, we all do that.
>
>   The article he cited does a pretty fair job of analyzing what this
>   might mean, and is worth a look.
>
>   Brian
>
>
>   Brian.
>
>   Thanks for the link. You are correct, it does clearly say MIDNIGHT.
>
>   Another factor in the delay from midnight to 2:35 AM is the time
difference between Frederick and Washington. This was before the railroad
companies set the standard times so Frederick might have been 30 to 45
minutes behind Washington time.
>
>   OG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Man....hard to pick just ONE joke to make about this....

-----Original Message-----
From: richard@... [mailto:richard@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:49 PM
To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]

Okay guys -- you're gonna LOVE this!

I got an email from a woman in NJ who had read my book.  She had a story
she
HAD to tell.  She says that when she was young she had ONE DATE with
George
McClellan's g-g-grandson.  And now I quote:  "While this young man may
have
inherited his g-g-grandfather's arrogance, he most definitely did NOT
have a
case of the slows!"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ollie" <oliverg25@...>
To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Downey
>   To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
>
>
>   Hi Ollie,
>
>   Yes, "12M" is how it was transcribed in the OR, as per the footnote
in
>   the article referred to.  We'd all agree that means noon.  But
that's
>   not what the telegram actually says.
>
>   I have a digital copy of the telegram (original at the L of C) form
as
>   it was received at the War Department, too, in case the link to the
>   Library of Congress doesn't work for you:
>   http://aotw.org/images/mc_lincoln_telegram.jpg
>
>   It's pretty clearly "Midnight".
>
>   It also helps explain why the telegram wasn't officially received at
>   the War Department til 2:35am.
>
>   Tim, by the way, is the first person I've heard of who's noticed
this.
>   Apparently no one else has bothered to look at the telegram in
recent
>   years, I don't know why.  Perhaps it was easier to take the OR at
face
>   value.  Heck, we all do that.
>
>   The article he cited does a pretty fair job of analyzing what this
>   might mean, and is worth a look.
>
>   Brian
>
>
>   Brian.
>
>   Thanks for the link. You are correct, it does clearly say MIDNIGHT.
>
>   Another factor in the delay from midnight to 2:35 AM is the time
difference between Frederick and Washington. This was before the
railroad
companies set the standard times so Frederick might have been 30 to 45
minutes behind Washington time.
>
>   OG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Yahoo! Groups Links







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Richard,

Maybe the elder Mac led from the rear and never had a penchant for
breastworks like his g-g-grandson!

Kevin

Oh, come on,Jeff! You can't let us down now!

Kevin

The word "premature" comes to mind....I'll just stop there.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rawlings, Kevin [mailto:kevin.rawlings@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:55 PM
To: 'TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam]

Oh, come on,Jeff! You can't let us down now!

Kevin






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