--- In teflchinajob@egroups.com, "dk" <davkees@p...> wrote:
>
> I mentioned something about making 200RMB/hr and got several off-
list
> queries from people who wanted to improve their salaries so I'll
give you
> some tips here. I don't really have time to write everything. I
would have
> to write a book. But I'll try to post a couple tips periodically.

Thanks, Dave;

I'm one of the off-list responders, and am very curious about this
approach, so all your tips will be welcome when you have time.  I
made 100 rmb per hour for one-on-one tutoring, and have been
pondering how to expand to teaching small groups.

Sam

I mentioned something about making 200RMB/hr and got several off-list
queries from people who wanted to improve their salaries so I'll give you
some tips here. I don't really have time to write everything. I would have
to write a book. But I'll try to post a couple tips periodically.

First off, I have to say I don't really make 200RMB/hr. That's the absolute
minimum. I average more than that.

You should check to see what private schools will charge a company for a
teacher. Here, schools will charge as much as 350/hr unless the company pays
a big lump sum for a huge chunk of training. Also, find out from other free
agent teachers what they are getting paid. That should give you an idea of
the possibilities.

--Dave

The TEFL Professional Network (TEFL.com) Career Database System currently
has 158 worldwide ELT vacancies available online. 43 new job opportunities
have been added this week. Check them out at http://tefl.com. Access to the
database is completely free of charge (no password is required), simply
input your job search criteria.

The following is the status of the database as at 17:00 GMT November 19,
2000. Number of jobs (per country) is shown in [brackets].

Albania[1], American Samoa[1], Argentina[1], Brazil[2], Bulgaria[1],
Canada[1], Chile[1], China[11], Czech Republic[1], Ecuador[2], Finland[1],
France[5], Georgia[1], Germany[4], Greece[1], Honduras[1], Hong Kong SAR,
PRC[1], Indonesia[1], Italy[14], Japan[10], Korea, South[20], Luxembourg[1],
Mexico[5], Mongolia[1], Morocco[1], Nepal[1], Oman[1], Pakistan[1],
Poland[10], Portugal[2], Russian Federation[2], Saudi Arabia[5],
Singapore[1], Slovakia[2], Spain[11], Taiwan[12], Thailand[5], Turkey[6],
United Kingdom[7], Vietnam[1]


Please note that as employers may post and delete vacancies online, free of
charge, in "real-time", the status of database is constantly changing.

Using our free InstApply service, you may also send your online cv/resume
and letter of application to any employer worldwide. InstApply information
is available at http://208.155.68.173/app/public/?action=instapply

Jon Kemp
http://tefl.com
TEFL Professional Network

South Ocean International School Luoyang is a k-12 boarding school in
Luoyang, Henan province, capital of 9 dynasties, the middle of the Middle
Kingdom.  We need at least 2 additional native English-speaking teachers for
the term beginning in February so that we can proceed with some of our plans
for upgrading our English curriculum.

Luoyang is a city of "only" 6 million, with about 50 foreigners.  There's
not much night life, and it's not a party town.  It is, however, still a
part of the "old" China in ways that are fast changing, and you can
experience China here as you can't in more westernized cities.

Our classes are small for China--usually 36 students or fewer: our students
are mostly bright, delightful, and eager to learn English (there are, of
course, exceptions, but if you've ever taught in a US classroom you'll find
this a pleasant change).  We have 4-6 day breaks every month or so that the
students can go home and we can travel. The administration gives us a pretty
free hand on what to teach and is trying to upgrade the oral portion of the
curriculum, in particular.

Our accommodations are luxurious for China--individual apartments (although
2 teachers may share a 3 bedroom apt.) with 3 bedrooms/2 bathrooms with
Western toilets (although only one has hot water for showers), or 2
bedrooms/1 bath.  We also have a living room, dining room, and kitchen with
a 2-burner propane stove and a washing machine.  TV, audio tape player,
refrigerator, and furniture are provided (but bring sheets and be prepared
to buy reading lamps, bookshelves, some kitchen equipment if you want to
cook, and probably other storage--all cheap--and an electric heater--not so
cheap--maybe $60-75USD for a good one).
Utilities including local phone are paid, but you pay your internet fees
(high at first, but once you get into the new system only 98 yuan/mo.).
Also, if you want a hookup in your apt.. (and you do), you'll need your own
computer. Three meals a day are provided at the school cafeteria--a mixed
benefit--it IS a school cafeteria--but you can always go down the street and
get homemade noodles for 3-5 yuan if you can't cope.

Pay is pretty good--starts around 2200 yuan/mo., which is actually enough to
live fairly comfortably with your housing and food taken care of., although
if you want to do much traveling you'll need a bit extra.  Our family of 3
got about $150- USD a month from home last year and were able to do a fair
amount of traveling on 2 salaries. (And we're buying milk and fruit for a
largish teenager.) And they'll reimburse one-way plane fare after a semester
of teaching.

And, speaking of teens, the school likes families, and teachers' kids are
welcome to attend class tuition-free.

There are also many invisible benefits--the principal's office will get you
train tickets, for instance, which can be very helpful, especially around
national holidays. Your packages will be picked up at the P.O. You can use a
school car for trips to town if it's available.  And many teachers and some
students will invite you to visit their homes, help you with shopping, etc.
Also, you are living in a Chinese community--everyone here, students,
teachers, and staff--lives on campus (well, a few local teachers go home at
night and more on Sundays)--we teach, eat, etc. together. Our only problem
has been that, because everyone wants to practice English, we get little
chance to practice Chinese!

This is our second year here, so we obviously think it's a good place.
If you'd like to contact us directly for more information, we can be reached
at siragwatkins@... : David Yun, who's head of the International
Office, can be reached at yswff@...   We suggest sending David
a resume and a copy of the first page of your passport if you're seriously
interested.  The school will do the paperwork for a teaching visa and needs
those to get started, so it's nice to have them immediately.
It's also a good idea to cc David if you write us (unless you want to ask
questions privately, which is fine) and us when you write him.  The net's a
little shaky here, so backup's always advisable.

We're hoping for colleagues with some experience, but bottom line is a
bachelor's degree. ESL certification or other training is a plus, as is any
teaching experience.  We hope to hear from you soon!




.



Leslie Sirag, R..L."Seth" Watkins, & Anne-Sarah Watkins
South Ocean International School Luoyang
Luoyang, Henan, POSTCODE:471031, People's Republic of CHINA
email: SIRAGWATKINS@...

Hi all,

Reminder for those who may have missed this..

I moved the TELFChina lists to eGoups last week and unsubscribed
everyone from our old Topica lists to avoid Topica's proposed
unsolicited promotional mail plan -- Topica wanted to send everyone
unsolicited email about Topica.com (spam, yuck). So I ditched Topica
and you got unsubscribe notices from Topica last week. I was NOT able
to bring everyone's digest preference with us to eGroups. So we all
got set to individual messages. Sorry about that.

Here is how you can set your mail delivery preferences again:

-Digest
To set your subscriptions to digest (all a day's messages in one
daily email, one from each list that is, `tis the best I can do),
send a blank email to:
            teflchina-digest@egroups.com,
            teflchinajob-digest@egroups.com,
            teflchinalife-digest@egroups.com

-No mail
to set your subscription to no mail (for listers who want to read &
post at the eGroups Web site but don't want mail) send a blank email
to:
            teflchina-NoMail@egroups.com,
            teflchinajob-NoMail@egroups.com,
            teflchinalife-NoMail@egroups.com

-Normal
to set your subscription to normal (individual messages) send a blank email to:
            teflchina-normal@egroups.com,
            teflchinajob-normal@egroups.com,
            teflchinalife-normal@egroups.com

It's all in List Help, lined at the bottom of each message, too.

Keep on listing :)

Roger, volunteer teahouse list coordinator
roger@...

Hi all,
     I was sent some names of universities in Xiamen, but the web sites I find
out them have not been updated since 1996 or they are other wise
nonfunctioning.  Any Help out there?
James

Hi;

I guess Matt's mad at this list, because he didn't post this here,
but his newspaper needs an English copy editor (foreigner) bad.  Pays
CNY7,500 plus subsidized apt.

Full job description at http://www.egroups.com/message/red-dragon/2037

If I were still in Shenzhen, this would look great to me!

Sam

Well, we are a family of 6 and and the oldest child is 6. Our baby was born
here. We're managing wonderfully. My wife and kids love it here.

Although I've received a few university offers I've opted to working
privately on my own. There is just no way to beat the money hitting at 200
per hour and higher.

You and I, with large families, have to be very serious about the subject of
money. While others can teach here for the experience we may need to be a
little more serious about the money subject.

The advantage of universities is the campusy life. Some of them will pamper
you with attention and just about everything but money.

Private schools can be a little better for income.

I'd suggest starting with either one if you don't have much experience under
your belt. But then after a short contract of maybe 6 months or so then
launch out on your own if you know how to market yourself.

We're having a great time, lots of friends and good experiences.

Dave Kees
Guangzhou, China
davkees@...

Dear Richard:

I agree with Cai Eng that there are plenty of teaching jobs available in
China, particularly in South China. You should not worry about finding
jobs that suit your needs. Your experiences sound really good for
business English and adult classes. If you are interested in working in
South China, please write to Gordon Kerr, our academic director in
charge of teachers recruitment. His e-mail: gordonjkerr@....  We
always need both short term and long term teachers and it is possible to
make flexible arrangement for you in terms of teaching hours and
accommodation.

As for learning Chinese, in my view, there are only two cities Shenzhen
and Zhuhai in South China where Putonghua is widely spoken. These two
cities are so called Special Economic Zones with majority people coming
from other provinces. Almost all the cities south of Yangtse River have
their own distinctive and most times incomprehensible accents. The
neutral accents are in Beijing, Urumuqi and some cities in Northwestern
and Northeastern China.

As you may have found, many Chinese would offer to teach you Chinese for
free in exchange for some practices in English. I have not met any
foreigner learning Chinese this way. It all becomes one way street with
all the conversations in English. If you have some basic Chinese skills,
you should be able to learn on your own but otherwise, it is wise to
enroll yourself  for one or two semesters into one of the formal
programs offered by big universities in Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou.
My wife took one term in Guangzhou Foreign Studies University and her
Chinese really made a big leap. I know the professor who taught my wife,
if you are interested, I can give you his e-mail address. As Linell
says, your age should never be a problem.

Best,

Ping
in Zhuhai



--
Gateway Language Village-ƽºÍ¹ú¼ÊÓïÑÔ´å
You do not need to go abroad to study English
P.O.Box 935, Ningxi, Zhuhai, 519001, PR of China
Phone: 86-756-2291934 Fax:86-756-2291935
E-mail: pinghong@... or pinghong@...
*******************
Yesterday is history.  Tomorrow a mystery.  Today is a gift.  That's why
it's called the present!

Cai Eng, your advice may be excellent for the truly adventurous, but
however many times I have proposed it to students of mine, they
almost all decline - as much because the Internet now makes possible
search methods not possible even a few years ago.

I will be responsible for placing 30-40 motivated college graduates
in China from January to August next year.  They will have computer
skills and TESOL qualifications, and would most like to work in large
cities (and large universities?) where there is reliable Internet
connectivity.  They will either teach English or teach, in English,
computer technology or very specialized "real world" communication
practices of interest to those in imports and exports.

I would very much appreciate, on list or off, advice about particular
job opportunities for these kind of people.  I am building into our
fee structure some compensation for person(s) abroad (in China) who
will help in the placement.

Takers?

John Hibbs
hibbs@...
www.bfranklin.edu/champions


At 10:09 AM -0600 11/14/00, cai eng wrote:
>Come on over, you are as young as you want to be.  Your computer skills will
>"compensate" for any supposed lack of intellectual competence in PuTongHua.
>Your enthusiasm for their language will win you many friends, and you will
>quickly improve.  Pay no attention to the mirror or your driver's license.
>Just relax, enjoy teaching, and watch TV to improve your Chinese.  Don't
>worry about finding a job from the USA.  Just come on another tourist visa,
>go to the city you want to work in, scout the terrain, find about a dozen
>schools that will be keen on your working for them, and then you can change
>your visa and work permits, after you sign a contract for six months or a
>year.  It is much easier than it sounds.  You can write to me offline if you
>want more specific info:  hdnb@...
>
>[long quote deleted ~ only short top quotes please ~ r]
>
>
>
>TO POST
>- Teaching ideas and questions  mailto:teflchina@egroups.com  (teach)
>- Jobs, employment issues  mailto:teflchinaJOB@egroups.com  (job)
>- Life threads  mailto:teflchinaLIFE@egroups.com  (life)
>TO UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email to:
>teflchinalife-unsubscribe@egroups.com,
>teflchinajob-unsubscribe@egroups.com,
>teflchina-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>LIST HELP: http://TEFLChina.com/welcome

Richard,
I have studied in both Germany and Mexico in language institutes with students
who were of retirement age--I would think that something similar exists in
China--you may just have to search a little.  Good luck.
John Siebel

Richard Cann wrote:

> I am looking for an opportunity to develop my Chinese language skills.
> However, I am too old to be accepted as a “student’.  I am 61.  Therefore I
> am considering teaching English as an alternate way to live in China for a
> short period.
> I am president of a small company that integrates computer data acquisition
> systems.  As an interest, I have made efforts to learn Chinese.  When I
> speak putonghua, Chinese are delighted that they readily understand, but my
> understanding of the spoken word needs exposure to Chinese culture.  My
> reading is limited unless hanzi are supported by pinyin.  I have never had a
> formal class in Chinese; my learning is primarily from students in the
> Boston area.
> No so long ago, I put on a backpack and traveled for six-weeks around China
> alone.  It was great fun!
> For the past year I have also been a volunteer teacher of ESL.  The majority
> of my students have been Chinese and Russian.
> I would like advice as to whether it is possible to find a position that
> permits a commitment of less than a year.  I would appreciate hearing all
> comments.
>
> Richard Cann
>
>
> TO POST
> - Teaching ideas and questions  mailto:teflchina@egroups.com  (teach)
> - Jobs, employment issues  mailto:teflchinaJOB@egroups.com  (job)
> - Life threads  mailto:teflchinaLIFE@egroups.com  (life)
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email to: teflchinalife-unsubscribe@egroups.com,
teflchinajob-unsubscribe@egroups.com, teflchina-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> LIST HELP: http://TEFLChina.com/welcome

>Hi - I am looking for any insight, comments, etc. on people's views
>of the chances of a family 5, yes five, with three children under the
>ages of 6, finding employment at a university in China for the
>2001-2002 academic year

Rosemary, you might consider both of you working (some schools will work out
alternate schedules--you in the morning; spouse in the afternoon) and paying
for an ayi to cook, clean, do laundry and teach the kids Chinese.  This
worked great for us and others we know.  Private schools really do pay lots
more, and are also a bit more competitive about whom they'll hire.  In
Changchun, we were making over 4,000 rmb apiece--made a big difference!

If you want to talk further, contact us by e-mail (offlist).

Richard

I do not think you are too old to be a student of Chinese in China. I
know several people over 60 who have enrolled in Chinese language
programs at universities in China. As far as I know there is no age
limitation. Some universities are quite flexible about how long you want
to study. I met an Australian man of your age who studied Chinese for 2
or 3 months and a Japanese businessman in his sixties who studied at a
Chinese university for two years. If you want to learn Chinese, why not
concentrate on that. If you are teaching English students will want to
talk to you in English. If you are studying Chinese you can speak
Chinese as much as you like without feeling conflicted about your
contractual obligation to be promoting English fluency wherever it is
that you are.

Linell Davis

Come on over, you are as young as you want to be.  Your computer skills will
"compensate" for any supposed lack of intellectual competence in PuTongHua.
Your enthusiasm for their language will win you many friends, and you will
quickly improve.  Pay no attention to the mirror or your driver's license.
Just relax, enjoy teaching, and watch TV to improve your Chinese.  Don't
worry about finding a job from the USA.  Just come on another tourist visa,
go to the city you want to work in, scout the terrain, find about a dozen
schools that will be keen on your working for them, and then you can change
your visa and work permits, after you sign a contract for six months or a
year.  It is much easier than it sounds.  You can write to me offline if you
want more specific info:  hdnb@...

[long quote deleted ~ only short top quotes please ~ r]

Hi Liz,

Your prof. must not have gotten my second message, so
here it is :o)
************
I was purposely trying to be obtuse, and obviously
suceeded :o)

Linell, stay away from Shannxi Normal.  Stay far, far
away.  Waiban is looney toons - makes my 'stalker'
look like Mickey Mouse.  My friend who was teaching
there is leaving for home today, and the American
embassy is aware of this guy.
***********

She was threatened sexually and physically.

Good luck finding somewhere!  You might try Xian
Foreign Language University.

Leslie
--- Elizabeth Marie Crispe
<elizabeth.crispe@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Leslie,
> I am a 26 year old female student of Chinese at
> Adelaide
> University. Dr. Gerry Groot  forwarded your email to
> me.
> I am interested in the opportunity you mentioned to
> teach in
> Shannxi Normal University. I was planning a trip to
> China
> during January and February. What period would I be
> required for? I am very
> excited by this opportunity. Could you send me
> details please.
> Regards,
> Liz Crispe.


=====
Leslie Klodt Xi'An, Shaanxi Province, China
leslieklodt@...  leslieklodt@...
ICQ: 39803416  Yahoo Messanger: leslieklodt
MSN Messenger: leslieklodt@...
Fax: (208)485-7190

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

Dear Richard,
   I am 65 and having been studying Chinese too. I also teach oral English
at Northeast China at a place called Changchun. They need English-native
speakers very badly. I skipped this semester, but I'm going back in March
2001. The University students aren't much interested in my "hanyu" but
they do want to hear my English. I've been there 3 semesters, and come
home after each semester to San Francisco.It's a lot of fun and I never
have felt too old to be a student of anything. If you want more
info..drop me a note. I call myself Chinajan@.... Hope to hear
from you..Jan

I am looking for an opportunity to develop my Chinese language skills.
However, I am too old to be accepted as a “student’.  I am 61.  Therefore I
am considering teaching English as an alternate way to live in China for a
short period.
I am president of a small company that integrates computer data acquisition
systems.  As an interest, I have made efforts to learn Chinese.  When I
speak putonghua, Chinese are delighted that they readily understand, but my
understanding of the spoken word needs exposure to Chinese culture.  My
reading is limited unless hanzi are supported by pinyin.  I have never had a
formal class in Chinese; my learning is primarily from students in the
Boston area.
No so long ago, I put on a backpack and traveled for six-weeks around China
alone.  It was great fun!
For the past year I have also been a volunteer teacher of ESL.  The majority
of my students have been Chinese and Russian.
I would like advice as to whether it is possible to find a position that
permits a commitment of less than a year.  I would appreciate hearing all
comments.

Richard Cann

Hey Rosemary:

You just keep looking.  I think you are great for trying and it will be a
fabulous opportunity for your children as well.

Go Girl!
Eva Lynne

>Has anybody ever used the Asiafacts publications, in particular the Japan 99
>book? The salary range they mention seems a bit unrealistic to me.
>Alternatively, do you have any good tips on how to get a TESL job in Japan?

I haven't seen the book in question.  For the past 13 years, my husband and
I have been working in Japan.  Here is some info I put together for the RDI
homepage:


When is the best time to look for a job?
Because the school year extends from April to March, most universities
begin their recruiting in August or September.  Most openings for language
schools are advertised in March and September because terms begin in April
and October.

Where can I find out about openings?
Websites like Ohayo Sensei
<http://www.linguistic-funland.com/ohayo-sensei.html>, Dave's ESL Cafe
<http://eslcafe.com/jobs/>, and        are  good sources
of information.  Each Monday's issue of The Japan Times carries page after
page of openings, and it is possible to subscribe to only the Monday issues
in North America.  (Currently, the online version of The Japan Times is not
of any help, except to sumo fans.)  For those wanting to work in
universities, The Chronicle of Higher Education offers a limited listing of
jobs outside the U.S.  For non-subscribers, a week-old edition can be
accessed at <http://jobs.chronicle.com/free/jobs/>.  Information on the
government-sponsored Japan Teaching and Exchange Program is available at
<http://www.embjapan.org/sf/JET-EXP.htm>.

What qualifications do I need to teach English in Japan?
For a university position, at least an MA (preferably in linguistics or
TEFL), and usually publications, several years of teaching experience, an
age below 35 (sometimes a limit of 10 years from one's BA), and a penis.
Though it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender, there are no
legal sanctions against it and the typical reply to women applicants--even
from women's universities--is "But we already have a woman on the faculty."
To work in a language school, generally an undergraduate degree (though
some schools are beginning to require MAs).  It also helps greatly to be
young and blond or obviously of northern European extract.  Some schools
prefer men or women teachers (though it is no longer legal to say so in job
advertisements) because they are thought to appeal to the clientele of that
school, where photos of the foreign teachers appear prominently in the
schools advertising, which hints broadly that one may fall in love with and
even have a relationship with one's English teacher.
Elementary and secondary schools seldom hire from outside the country,
except through the JET Program,
though that is gradually changing with the Ministry of Education's
mandatory introduction of English education in elementary school and the
increasing emphasis on oral communication.  Preference in the JET Program
seems to be for enthusiastic young people fresh out of college with no
training or experience in teaching.  Perhaps they are perceived as being
more tractable in working with their Japanese cooperating teachers.

Can I just go to Japan and look for a job there?
Yes and no.  To change from a tourist visa to a working visa, you must
leave the country.  However, there is a great reliance on personal
introduction in the hiring process, so the better jobs usually cannot be
obtained without a recommendation from a Japanese educator or some personal
connection.  It's a sort of Catch 22.  The economy has been stagnant for
about eight years now, and the language school industry has shrunk to half
or less its former size because language study was primarily a sort of chic
hobby for bored homemakers or status symbol parents wanted for their
children and thus a luxury to be dispensed with in hard times.  Now the
focus is more pragmatic and salaries have failed to
increase to match rising prices.
While positions in government schools must, by law, be advertised, in
practice the best positions are generally found by word of mouth through
informal networks.
Many foreigners actually live on part-time work without any benefits,
traveling from school to school over the course of a week (or day), but it
is impossible to put together such an arrangement without a valid work visa
to begin with.  In other words, once you have been teaching in Japan for a
year, you can probably find a better job, if you're looking for one.

What is a typical teaching load?
Most language schools expect you to teach 20-25 hours a week (which does
not include travel time between sites (the teacher often travels to the
students, in business settings) with some additional time spent in class
and materials preparation at the school.  Classes are generally held in the
late afternoon and evening during the six-day work week.  Class size seldom
exceeds 25 and is often much smaller.  You get two weeks off per year, the
time being decided by the school.  In addition, there are one or more
national holidays per month (except June) and a week-long break for the New
Year.
Universities expect foreign teachers to teach six to eight ninety-minute
classes per week.  Class size usually begins at 25 and may go as high as
60, except for upper-level electives).  There are two fifteen- to
eighteen-week semesters, and the schools operate on a five-day school week.
  However, you are expected to be on campus most of each day (though your
classes will be scheduled to give you one free day on which you may be
granted permission to work part-time at another school (nearly every
teacher, foreign or native, moonlights in this way; it's cheaper than the
school hiring enough fulltime faculty) and will probably have to stamp in
(and maybe out) each day.  Whether or not your are expected to attend
meetings, serve on committees, write and administer entrance exams, and go
on recruitment tours varies from school to school.
Foreigners generally teach conversation classes, and maybe composition.
Teachers in the government-sponsored JET (Japan Exchange and Teachering)
Program,
who team teach with Japanese teacher of English in the exam-oriented junior
and senior high schools, often complain that they are relegated to roles as
living tape recorders, but this program offers a lot of support to those
participating in it.
You should be aware that in Japan employees are expected to owe their first
allegiance to their employers.  Families come a distant second.  This means
that you will sometimes be asked to take up duties far beyond the scope of
what you understood your contract to entail (e.g., moving furniture) or to
work on a Sunday or attend a meeting that extends long beyond quitting time
without complaint.

How much money can I make?
The government-mandated minimum which a school must guarantee in order to
be granted a visa for a teacher is 250,000 yen per month.  (In the past
year the yen has ranged from 105 to 120 to the dollar).  Few schools pay
more than this.  University salaries are determined by age and years of
experience (advanced degrees don't make much difference in the pay scale,
just in the hiring process because the system makes it impossible for young
Japanese professors to earn doctorates before their superiors do) and start
at around 4 million yen per year (divided up among twelve monthly paychecks
and three yearly bonuses).  The cost of living in Japan is quite high,
about twice that of the U.S., on average, though it is much higher in
Tokyo.  While one must live somewhat frugally on a beginner's salary
(especially if one is supporting a family), the money one saves will go
pretty far in another Asian country or even in North America.
Actually, it is very much a matter of lifestyle.  If one lives as the
Japanese do, one can live comfortably.  If one expects a large apartment
with Western conveniences, American food and a car, it will be quite
expensive.

Hope this is helpful.

--Peg

Has anybody ever used the Asiafacts publications, in particular the Japan 99
book? The salary range they mention seems a bit unrealistic to me.
Alternatively, do you have any good tips on how to get a TESL job in Japan?

Thanks for any info.

Poys



_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

Yep :)

Hours can be limited to 15 hours, at the moment Bo and
I are teaching about 17 hours each a week most of them
on the weekend :)

--- John Pullen <jpullen@...> wrote: > Kirsten
  -  If I'm reading this correctly, the
> 'great pay' is about 1200 rmb
> for 15 hours a week or about 4800 rmb a month.  That
> does sound good.  Can
> one limit their work to just 15 hours?
>
> john


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!
http://calendar.yahoo.com/

Rosemary--

At least one of you can probably get a job at a university.  It will
probably pay less than teaching at a private k-12 school, may not provide as
large an apt or as many amenities.  Also, the school (any school) will
undoubtedly pressure both of you to teach--there are just not enough
English speaking teachers in China!
Also, unless you have an income from home, supporting 5 people on one
Chinese salary, especially if you'll be travelling, paying for school, or
even buying milk (it costs us around 200 yuan a month with a teenager who
drinks only about 1/2 liter of milk a day), may be a stretch.  Although our
salaries are generous by Chinese standards, we're glad to have 2 for us and
one teen.  Our colleague here, with one salary and 2 kids, is having
considerably more difficulty, especially since her kids won't eat our
cafeteria food and she's having to feed them out of her salary.

Lisa McClure teaches at a university and her daughter Lara goes to a
pre-school that I think is connected to it.
She will probably respond, and you might also join ChinaKids at egroups.com,
where lots of people living here with kids will give you advice.

Good luck!  Leslie






Leslie Sirag, R..L."Seth" Watkins, & Anne-Sarah Watkins
South Ocean International School Luoyang
Luoyang, Henan, POSTCODE:471031, People's Republic of CHINA
email: SIRAGWATKINS@...

If you know ANYONE interested in teaching at Shannxi
Normal University in Xian, particularly if female,
please, please, please give them my e-mail, and tell
them they can contact me privately.  Anyone else
interested may do the same.

Leslie

=====
Leslie Klodt Xi'An, Shaanxi Province, China
leslieklodt@...  leslieklodt@...
ICQ: 39803416  Yahoo Messanger: leslieklodt
MSN Messenger: leslieklodt@...
Fax: (208)485-7190

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

Kirsten  -  If I'm reading this correctly, the 'great pay' is about 1200 rmb
for 15 hours a week or about 4800 rmb a month.  That does sound good.  Can
one limit their work to just 15 hours?

john
> 2. 80RMB per hour. At least 15 hours per week,more if
> requested, working in the evenings and on the weekend

Kirsten,

If your school needs teachers, consider listing it in our China Guide, a
resource for ESL teachers looking for work in PRC.  It will be a good way to
make your schools staffing needs known to potential teachers.  See our web
site below for details of our Guides to living and working in Asia.

Best wishes,

Robert Burton
Asia Facts Unlimited
Canada: PO Box 93, Kingston, Ontario, K7L 4V6
USA:    PO Box 593, Fineview, NY  13640
Tel: (613) 387-2628  Fax: (613) 387-2682
email:     rburton@...
Web site:  http://asiafacts.kingston.net (note: NO "www")

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirsten McIver" <kirstmci@...>
To: <teflchinajob@egroups.com>
> Our names are Kirsten McIver and Bo Rotmo and we are a
> young couple working for a small private school in
> Guiyang, Guizhou province. The school we're working
> for is beginning to expand and is wanting to employ a
> new Native English speaker in the new year beginning
> around the middle of february.
>

Rosemary  -  No problem.  I remember seeing big families that worked at Fu
Zhou University, Min Jiang University, and the Sino-Anglo College (actually
a high school) in Fu Zhou City, Fu Jian Province.

Keep looking in teflchinajob, teach-in-china.com, tefl.com, and dave's
eslcafe.   Try any one of the schools you find in your selected area of the
country.  Probably will all like a family which shows the adults are stable.

john

Mily,

I'm asian and teaching in Shenyang (where the number of foreigners is
relatively small).  It is a little more difficult to find a job, and it
takes a bit of effort to convince your students you are qualified (we
had a Romanian guy here teaching English & his students were convinced
his English is perfect... while it took me a few classes for my
students to say,"Okay...")

Often times schools, especially private language schools, are just
looking for an exotic face.

Let's see what else?  People do have a lot less patience with me than
they do with the obviously foreign people.  As long as you get around
to explaining you're Canadian & not a really stupid Chinese person who
can't speak Mandarin you'll be fine. (on the other hand, if you're in
Beijing or Shanghai, they know... they're worldly enough to know what's
up... no problems.)  Then, they'll look at you funny and ask you if
you're Overseas Chinese (easy answer for you, 'cause you are)... and
then smile.  Mention something about returning to your roots or culture
and most people will be happy.

The above paragraph assumes you know some Mandarin... you probably
should learn some (you'll learn really quickly when people assume you
speak the language!)  Also, most people think if you're foreign &
you're Asian,  you're Korean or Japanese.  There is this underlying
hostility against Japanese here, so don't let them think you're
Japanese.  They have a war called the Anti-Japanese war... what more
can I say?  Well, I shouldn't be criticizing the Mainland's education
policy or I might get thrown in jail. =)

Khang


>  >     I feel that my nationality will definitely play a
>  >  major factor in getting
>  >  hired(or not!)  Any comments?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

A friend of mine and I are planning to teach at Jiangnan University in Wuxi. 
Has anyone taught there?  If so,  is the environment good for teaching at the
univiersity and does the school deal fairly with foreign teachers?  Any insights
about Wuxi or Jiangnan University will be greatly appreciated.

Dean D.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings everyone :)

Our names are Kirsten McIver and Bo Rotmo and we are a
young couple working for a small private school in
Guiyang, Guizhou province. The school we're working
for is beginning to expand and is wanting to employ a
new Native English speaker in the new year beginning
around the middle of february.

Here's some of the details :)
The administration is excellent and supportive.
What we require of you:
1. TESL trained teacher preferred with experience
teaching in China
2. Some Chinese language skills an advantage but not
required.
3. Need to be available to begin teaching around the
middle of February 2001 until 26 July 2001, with the
option of extending until January/February 2002.

What we can offer you:
1. Working Visa
2. 80RMB per hour. At least 15 hours per week,more if
requested, working in the evenings and on the weekend
- One day off per week. Days are completely free
(except Saturday and Sunday).
3. Accommodation is provided off campus in the city,
but you will need to pay for your own power, gas,
water, food, phone, and internet.
4. Free computer with internet connection.
5. Free trip around Guizhou Province every two months.

6. For 6 month contract offer one way air ticket for 1
year contract offer return air ticket (available at
end of contract)
7. Help to buy real coffee and Cheese (if required)

If you have any questions or are interested in viewing
our contract please contact Harry Xu via email
(xujie@...) also feel free to contact us,
the current foreign teachers (Kirsten McIver and Bo
Rotmo (borotmo@...)

  CHeers
Kirsten and Bo

Hi - I am looking for any insight, comments, etc. on people's views
of the chances of a family 5, yes five, with three children under the
ages of 6, finding employment at a university in China for the
2001-2002 academic year.  Are our chances a snowball's?

While we have reasonable educations that would likely be attractive
to a university, and we feel quite strongly that we prefer a
university rather than a private school setting, we are also hoping
that only one of us would need to commit to teaching, since dealing
with the needs of our kids (ages 6, 4 and 3 by next August), might
occupy a fair amount of time.

Comments?

Rosemary,
Ontario, Canada