To: Synoptic In Response To: Wieland Willker On: Q From: Bruce Responses on my amateur Q query have been most helpful; further ones would be also appreciated;...
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Eric Eve
ecse2000
Jun 13, 2006 11:05 am
Bruce Brooks wrote ... What Wieland may not have made sufficiently clear here is that what I did was to start reconstructing the text of Mark from Mt and Lk...
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Wieland Willker
blende7
Jun 13, 2006 11:08 am
Exactly as you write Bruce. What this experiment would show is that what one reconstructs is not necessarily the truth. It shows how weak the Q+Mark =...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 13, 2006 1:15 pm
Leonard, Thanks for sharing and clarifying your thoughts. I have no idea how to procede without rewriting the material from standard textbooks on critical...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 13, 2006 1:18 pm
Bob, You're underlining a point I made earlier. No theory will tie up all the loose ends. At the end of the day a person becomes persuaded that Q or no-Q...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 13, 2006 2:30 pm
Bruce, Two observations: 1. That was brilliant thought excercise--very well said. 2. To me, the fact that Q is not extant today is the single most irrelevant...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 13, 2006 2:40 pm
Wieland, One of the greatest impacts reading The Case Against Q had for me was this: I am completely skeptical of the Q-orgy that's currently going on in...
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John C. Poirier
johncpoirier
Jun 13, 2006 4:35 pm
... I'd like to ask a question at this point: If all we had were Matthew and Luke, why would anyone suspect that there even was a Mark? Both sides can make hay...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 13, 2006 4:54 pm
John, I think it would in fact be an interesting exercise to compare Mt and Lk passage by passage leaving Mk out of the equation. Here is what would...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jun 13, 2006 6:33 pm
To: Synoptic Cc: GPG In Response To: John Poirier and Chuck Jones From: Bruce I think the discussion is veering off into Synoptic arguments per se, and it's my...
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Gentile, David
gentdave1
Jun 13, 2006 7:47 pm
Bob Schacht writes: One of the chief obstacles for me to deal with the synoptic problem is that for every argument of this sort, there is a symmetrical...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 13, 2006 8:27 pm
Bruce, When I said that sometimes Mt added to Lk's material and sometimes Lk added to Mt's I meant it in the most precise way possible--the Mt account has more...
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Ron Price
ron18price
Jun 13, 2006 8:53 pm
... Chuck, If we grant that the sayings material in Luke is unorganized (which I take to mean that any organization it has is fairly obscure), then what I want...
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Weaks, Joe
jweaks
Jun 14, 2006 5:54 am
Wieland, et al, I am currently writing a dissertation reconstructing what we can of Mark from the text of triple tradition pericopes in Matthew and Luke...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jun 14, 2006 6:07 am
To: Synoptic On: Reasons for Q From: Bruce I guess the mail has come in on this one. Thanks to all who found time to contribute to the survey. Here, for the...
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Wieland Willker
blende7
Jun 14, 2006 6:52 am
... That's great! Keep us informed! It seems pretty clear to me that the text of Mk available to Mt and Lk was not exactly the same, word by word, as the one...
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Wieland Willker
blende7
Jun 14, 2006 7:00 am
... Bruce, your theorizing is ok, but keep in mind that we are dealing with human action/interaction and this is not always rational or following Ockham's...
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Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jun 14, 2006 7:37 am
... From later manuscripts, it is clear that the minor variants in the texts are associated in text criticism in what were called "families," IIRC. Of course,...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jun 14, 2006 8:50 am
To: Synoptic-L Cc: GPG In Response To: Wieland Willker From: Bruce WIELAND: Bruce, your theorizing is ok, but keep in mind that we are dealing with human...
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Wieland Willker
blende7
Jun 14, 2006 9:57 am
... Why is that? Perhaps Mt and Lk were written at the same time. Or what about this: Mt and/or Lk used some earlier draft of Mk, then later Mk was slightly...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 14, 2006 12:50 pm
Ron, The reason one would not expect Lk to "mess up the order" of Mt (or Q) is that he did not do so with Mk. He left Mk's order largely alone, simply...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 14, 2006 1:10 pm
Bruce, Thanks for this masterful summary. It's a keeper. I agree heartily (and struggled, I think, to express) that the heart of the issue for me is mixed...
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John C. Poirier
johncpoirier
Jun 14, 2006 5:47 pm
... But couldn't you say the same thing about Matthew? He doesn't mess up Mark's order either. Yet one of the two, Matthew or Luke, *does* mess up the order...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 14, 2006 6:02 pm
John, Great point and great questions. It is widely known that Mt grouped Jesus' teaching materials (most of it double tradition) into five sermons, the first...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jun 14, 2006 6:50 pm
To: Synoptic Cc: GPG On: Lukan Authorial Strategy (was: Query on Q) In Response To: John Poirier From: Bruce John had several interesting comments on Chuck...
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Ron Price
ron18price
Jun 14, 2006 7:16 pm
... Chuck, But by similar reasoning should you not equally expect Matthew to avoid messing up the order of Q? For Matthew also largely keeps to the Markan ...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jun 14, 2006 7:44 pm
To: Synoptic Cc: GPG In Response To: Wieland Willker On: Synoptic Relations [under rubric "Query on Q"] From: Bruce BRUCE [Previously, and quoting Farmer]: the...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jun 14, 2006 7:47 pm
To: Synoptic Cc: GPG In Response To: Ron Price On: Movement of Markan Material in Mt and Lk From: Bruce Ron had said, "According to Kloppenborg's analysis,...
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Chuck Jones
chuckjonez
Jun 14, 2006 7:51 pm
Ron, Goulder's reading of the Lk 14 story is bizarre. At the end of the story the servant fills the room with the poor, crippled, blind and lame from town,...
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Dave Gentile
gentdave1
Jun 14, 2006 8:37 pm
... and Lk was not exactly the same, word by word, as the one we have today in NA. The Minor Agreements come to mind. It is, unfortunately, not possible to...
