Could post 14269 be the one from Anne banning Kate. Anne has been very quite
since she banned two people. Maybe she feels she overreacted. I admire Anne for
banning Eamon. It was justified.  Not Kate:

Maybe Anne should let Kate back as she never called the sexually abused martyrs.
Everone is talking about Kate and she is the elephant in the room. It seems
without Katevin the discussion, the group is incomplete.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@...>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 6:15 PM
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already


It was a one line reply to your post, she said something like, 'that may be your
opinion but I don't believe what those women said'  It seems that the post,
#14269 I think, has been deleted.  If you check back on the site when you were
having the back and forth with Kate one of her replys has been deleted. 
Probably for the best, but it makes the dialog loose a bit of the thread.
  Lynn

  --- On Mon, 11/23/09, goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...> wrote:

  From: goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...>
  Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already
  To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
  Received: Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:53 AM

   

  Hi Lynn,

  I don't remember Kate telling me "point blank" that she did not believe what
the women were saying. I tried to make her react to it but it seems to me she
always avoided the subject and answered by talking about "the Highest", etc.

  Can you find the excerpt?

  She must be in that very difficult position, like many current fervent
disciples: your whole inner life is based upon the experience you are getting
from your guru: inspiration, aspiration, light, devotion to the highest, sense
of being guided and protected, of being chosen (we've all felt that way) ....and
suddenly something comes up which, if you look at it without immediately
discarding it as a sheer calomny, may force you to reevaluate your vision of the
guru upon which your faith is based, and your whole life is built.

  The equation then becomes:

  1. Guru is divine, he embodies the Highest, he is an Avatar, he is perfect. I
have always known him as such. My heart tells me this is the Truth.

  2. Now some disciples – or persons who were very good disciples just a short
while ago, and who were as fervent and committed as I am now – are speaking
with a sincerity which I honestly am not entitled to doubt, and they are
revealing that the same man, my "perfect Guru" has sexually abused several of
his disciples, whereas he has always strongly advocated purity and considered
sex as the "lower vital", to be avoided always.

  3. Can my divine Guru, my perfect master, have lied and abused his disciples
(people like me) and still be divine and perfect???

  4. ...What should I now think? What shall I become? What about my spiritual
life?

  Denial is the easy way out.

  But denial also means believing that those women (who, again, were very good
disciples not so long ago) are liars, and that the whole bunch of ex-disciples
who trust them have become hostile forces. Which, I think, is a heavy weight to
carry on one's conscience.

  Dealing with all this is a little less difficult for those who have already
left the path a while ago and have been able to realise that life goes on after
"the path", and that our spirituality doesn't die even if we turn away from
Guru.

  subala

  --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "lynnisfree2be"
<lynnisfree2be@ ...> wrote:

  >

  > Yes Gary, as Ben said we need to give people time and space to adjust and
react to this crazy info about Chinmoy. I was reacting to Kate telling Subala
point blank that she doesn't believe what the women are saying. I have also been
in contact with Kate to dialog in a more personal and open way, and I hope she
doesn't give up on us here at the exes site, we are all just trying to make
sense of a sad situation that has touched each of us exes personally.

  > Lynn

  >

  >

  > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@ > wrote:

  > >

  > >

  > >

  > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, maladuncan <no_reply@>
wrote:

  > > >

  > > > Right on Gary, What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan,
Eamon is COMPASSION. Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT. IMHO, one is
more pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand
where their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be
feeling. Just my 2cents. MA

  > > > PS How's Brazil? >>

  > >

  > > Well, MA, as far as COMPASSION goes, I know for SURE that Udayan has a LOT
of it, and from what I'm picking up from my private correspondence with Missing
Kate, she's got a lot of WARMTH and HUMOR about her as we, AND just for the
record, I don't remember where she called Sundari and Bihagee (see Yogaloy's
blogsite for the most recent Sri Chinmoy Sexcapade revelations) liars, and if
she did that was most unfortunate because CLEARLY these women are ANYTHING but
"liers" as our malapropic and spelling challenged, enshrouded in ignorance and
the miasma of denial and misinformation, Eamon has called them repeatedly.

  > >

  > > And speaking of brother Eamon, he wouldn't know what COMPASSION was if it
happened to jump up and bite him in the ay ess ess.

  > >

  > > I think we have to consider the fact that we are ALWAYS operating on two
levels: the relative and the absolute.

  > >

  > > On the relative level, people need time to heal and to process.

  > >

  > > On the absolute level, everything is exactly the way it "should" be, and
the ONLY way it can be, and NOBODY is to blame for anything, and each one of us
has to take full responsibility for own life and choices and cannot afford to
make the mistake of looking outside our own being for ANYTHING, since in Truth,
we lack nothing.

  > >

  > > That being said, MA, I am coming to you from Punta del Este in Uruguay and
am heading to Buenos Aires next week and may or may not (probably not) make it
to Brazil before we head home to JFK airport on Jan.8.

  > >

  > > The bottom line is that it's All Good, eventhough our former Gurudeva has
turned out to be an Indian rascal of almost the very lowest order.

  > >

  > > At least he wasn't a pederast like Sai Baba.

  > >

  > > I think that's fairly safe to say.

  > >

  > > Although naturally I wouldn't be my next incarnation on it, that's for
sure.

  > >

  > > The way these revelations as starting to pour forth, almost nothing would
surprise me.

  > >

  > > The ONLY thing that continues to surprise me is the almost absolute DENIAL
some of the current and even some of the ex- disciples continue to CHOOSE to
remain in.

  > >

  > > Hasta la vista or Chau, as they say here in Uruguay.

  > >

  > >

  > > Gary

  > >

  > > NNB

  > > >

  > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@ > wrote:

  > > > >

  > > > >

  > > > >

  > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "kapah94" <kapah94@>
wrote:

  > > > > >

  > > > > > Kate,

  > > > > > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,

  > > > > > of course which is relative. Thanks for posting. Your insights

  > > > > > are concise and to the point. The story is no longer revelent,

  > > > > > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which

  > > > > > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.

  > > > > > See through the blackness and you see the light. You realize light
wins in the end. End of story, now just live.

  > > > > > Udayan

  > > > > > >>

  > > > >

  > > > > To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.

  > > > >

  > > > > She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me
on.

  > > > >

  > > > > Spiritually, of course!!

  > > > >

  > > > > Let's be clear here.

  > > > >

  > > > > I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.

  > > > >

  > > > > Well, almost, at least.

  > > > >

  > > > > Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.

  > > > >

  > > > > As for Eamon, however, I can't say that I miss him.

  > > > >

  > > > > At all.

  > > > >

  > > > > I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.

  > > > >

  > > > > In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.

  > > > >

  > > > > Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as
well.

  > > > >

  > > > > Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black
the butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.

  > > > >

  > > > > Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for
that, and one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and
LOVING space in which that process CAN occur.

  > > > >

  > > > > In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out
my ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."

  > > > >

  > > > > Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just
grabbing him by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands
around his neck and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.

  > > > >

  > > > > And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.

  > > > >

  > > > > Who knows? Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.

  > > > >

  > > > > It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as
well.

  > > > >

  > > > > Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate
and Kapah MORE!!

  > > > >

  > > > > However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on
totally at THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever
process they need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or
Savior or Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY
have.

  > > > >

  > > > > And ARE!!

  > > > >

  > > > > Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.

  > > > >

  > > > > And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.

  > > > >

  > > > >

  > > > > Gary

  > > > >

  > > > > NNB

  > > > >

  > > > >

  > > > >

  > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:

  > > > > > >

  > > > > > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to
go beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and
feel they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they
sincerely seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have
ever dug before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper
into their own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a
good thing.

  > > > > > > Peace, sister

  > > > > > >

  > > > > > > kate

  > > > > > >

  > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@ > wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > Kate, you say that

  > > > > > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness
have not done one thing to create  light"<snip>

  > > > > > > > And you know this because..... .you are inside their
heads?????    Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your
ex sisters and brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe
that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral
journey.

  > > > > > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>
, but what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness'
that we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth"
for those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of
Chinmoy's monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good
for you, shine on sister! 

  > > > > > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and
"getting on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the
Truth.  Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting
on with things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more
depth and authenticity than judging others as weak would have.

  > > > > > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can
know how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.

  > > > > > > > Just my opinion, Lynn

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ > wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ >

  > > > > > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_ Information] Re: the highest and the not
so high

  > > > > > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com

  > > > > > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >  

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > Jack, that was interesting.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going
into it and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a
horror movie.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the
Light if you only feel hate.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come
from diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth
within, not from an outside source.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing
and gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the
real issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then
nothing will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a
journey that just goes on an on ad nauseum.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from
your perceived lost soul, and get on with it.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and
shine!

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > kate

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ."
<jack@> wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been
hurt and is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker.
Well and good.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated
â€" as well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master
and his hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they
have ever encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the
Light, or that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with
their guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the
teachings they absorbed.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out
of his mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of
his dhoti?

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your
panties?

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine
involves wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps
another's is to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps
finding the fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to
embrace the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away,
and hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not
wash away.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > Jack

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I
disagree. Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy
to seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should
strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on
earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own
highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to
that point.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > kate

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > Yes Kate,

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > But that's not the point.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and
all the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and
whose names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out),
did they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme,
sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre,
and they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > subala

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > Subala,

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for
quite awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a
lot of these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to
create light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
darkness.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > kate

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from
seeing

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).

  > > > > > > >

  > > > > > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes
reality is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I checked out Kate's condensed spiritual life story at the ex-pat site, it
struck me that she views Alo as a feminine divine being like disciples used to
do when Kate was a disciple in the 70s. Kate left the path in the 70s ( and came
back shortly once or twice) so she apparently she missed the message that the
Supreme changed his mind and took away A's realisation. I am not saying this in
a mocking way, just as an interesting aside.

V

It's open to interpretation though,isn't it?

I've been out of town for four days and have just read through the posts which
accrued in that time.

Censorship always bothers me, although I have to admit that there are times
when, sadly, it is necessary.  But there is a sense of failure in having to
censor or ban contributors.

One of the toughest questions I keep encountering is this: how tolerant must we
be of intolerance?

One of our banned members was criticising me on one of his boards a month or so
ago, accusing me of being a liar because of a perceived inconsistency in
information I'd revealed about myself through private correspondence.  I
concluded that the source of the error was confusion created through
misinterpretation, rather than outright malice.  But he doesn't appear to
display any contrition over the mistake and seems not to be concerned about any
damage it might have caused.  But it did make me reflect on the importance of
ensuring that what we post is factually correct.

I suppose the other thing we need to be aware of is the grief which people
affected by mind control encounter when they are on the cusp of their outdated
worldview collapsing.  Such people can really be hurting and in their pain they
can lash out in a potent way.  It's been happening for countless generations. 
You may remember the passion with which Saul of Tarsus hunted down approved the
deaths of early Christians - all because their message grated with his fiercely
fundamentalist views.

T.

That is strange because I still can't remember her telling anything like that,
it seems to me she always avoided mentioning in a direct way the stories that
the women told.
And post #14269 has disappeared (why?), true, but it is quoted in my reply
#14270, and still that sentence is not there.
Oh well... Let us hope that one day Kate will start opening her mind a little
more.
subala


--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@...>
wrote:
>
> It was a one line reply to your post, she said something like, 'that may be
your opinion but I don't believe what those women said'  It seems that the
post, #14269 I think, has been deleted.  If you check back on the site when you
were having the back and forth with Kate one of her replys has been deleted. 
Probably for the best, but it makes the dialog loose a bit of the thread.
> Lynn
>
> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...> wrote:
>
> From: goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...>
> Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already
> To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:53 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>       Hi Lynn,
>
> I don't remember Kate telling me "point blank" that she did not believe what
the women were saying. I tried to make her react to it but it seems to me she
always avoided the subject and answered by talking about "the Highest", etc.
>
> Can you find the excerpt?
>
>
>
> She must be in that very difficult position, like many current fervent
disciples: your whole inner life is based upon the experience you are getting
from your guru: inspiration, aspiration, light, devotion to the highest, sense
of being guided and protected, of being chosen (we've all felt that way) ....and
suddenly something comes up which, if you look at it without immediately
discarding it as a sheer calomny, may force you to reevaluate your vision of the
guru upon which your faith is based, and your whole life is built.
>
>
>
> The equation then becomes:
>
> 1. Guru is divine, he embodies the Highest, he is an Avatar, he is perfect. I
have always known him as such. My heart tells me this is the Truth.
>
> 2. Now some disciples â€" or persons who were very good disciples just a short
while ago, and who were as fervent and committed as I am now â€" are speaking
with a sincerity which I honestly am not entitled to doubt, and they are
revealing that the same man, my "perfect Guru" has sexually abused several of
his disciples, whereas he has always strongly advocated purity and considered
sex as the "lower vital", to be avoided always.
>
> 3. Can my divine Guru, my perfect master, have lied and abused his disciples
(people like me) and still be divine and perfect???
>
> 4. ...What should I now think? What shall I become? What about my spiritual
life?
>
>
>
> Denial is the easy way out.
>
> But denial also means believing that those women (who, again, were very good
disciples not so long ago) are liars, and that the whole bunch of ex-disciples
who trust them have become hostile forces. Which, I think, is a heavy weight to
carry on one's conscience.
>
>
>
> Dealing with all this is a little less difficult for those who have already
left the path a while ago and have been able to realise that life goes on after
"the path", and that our spirituality doesn't die even if we turn away from
Guru.
>
>
>
> subala
>
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "lynnisfree2be"
<lynnisfree2be@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Yes Gary, as Ben said we need to give people time and space to adjust and
react to this crazy info about Chinmoy.  I was reacting to Kate telling Subala
point blank that she doesn't believe what the women are saying.  I have also
been in contact with Kate to dialog in a more personal and open way, and I hope
she doesn't give up on us here at the exes site, we are all just trying to make
sense of a sad situation that has touched each of us exes personally.
>
> > Lynn
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@ > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, maladuncan <no_reply@>
wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan,
Eamon is COMPASSION.  Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT.  IMHO, one is
more pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand
where their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be
feeling. Just my 2cents. MA
>
> > > > PS How's Brazil? >>
>
> > >
>
> > > Well, MA, as far as COMPASSION goes, I know for SURE that Udayan has a LOT
of it, and from what I'm picking up from my private correspondence with Missing
Kate, she's got a lot of WARMTH and HUMOR about her as we, AND just for the
record, I don't remember where she called Sundari and Bihagee (see Yogaloy's
blogsite for the most recent Sri Chinmoy Sexcapade revelations) liars, and if
she did that was most unfortunate because CLEARLY these women are ANYTHING but
"liers" as our malapropic and spelling challenged, enshrouded in ignorance and
the miasma of denial and misinformation, Eamon has called them repeatedly.
>
> > >
>
> > > And speaking of brother Eamon, he wouldn't know what COMPASSION was if it
happened to jump up and bite him in the ay ess ess.
>
> > >
>
> > > I think we have to consider the fact that we are ALWAYS operating on two
levels: the relative and the absolute.
>
> > >
>
> > > On the relative level, people need time to heal and to process.
>
> > >
>
> > > On the absolute level, everything is exactly the way it "should" be, and
the ONLY way it can be, and NOBODY is to blame for anything, and each one of us
has to take full responsibility for own life and choices and cannot afford to
make the mistake of looking outside our own being for ANYTHING, since in Truth,
we lack nothing.
>
> > >
>
> > > That being said, MA, I am coming to you from Punta del Este in Uruguay and
am heading to Buenos Aires next week and may or may not (probably not) make it
to Brazil before we head home to JFK airport on Jan.8.
>
> > >
>
> > > The bottom line is that it's All Good, eventhough our former Gurudeva has
turned out to be an Indian rascal of almost the very lowest order.
>
> > >
>
> > > At least he wasn't a pederast like Sai Baba.
>
> > >
>
> > > I think that's fairly safe to say.
>
> > >
>
> > > Although naturally I wouldn't be my next incarnation on it, that's for
sure.
>
> > >
>
> > > The way these revelations as starting to pour forth, almost nothing would
surprise me.
>
> > >
>
> > > The ONLY thing that continues to surprise me is the almost absolute DENIAL
some of the current and even some of the ex- disciples continue to CHOOSE to
remain in.
>
> > >
>
> > > Hasta la vista or Chau, as they say here in Uruguay.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Gary
>
> > >
>
> > > NNB
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@ > wrote:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "kapah94"
<kapah94@> wrote:
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Kate,
>
> > > > > > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
>
> > > > > > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
>
> > > > > > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
>
> > > > > > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
>
> > > > > > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
>
> > > > > > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light
wins in the end.  End of story, now just live.
>
> > > > > > Udayan
>
> > > > > > >>
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns
me on.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Spiritually, of course!!
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Let's be clear here.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Well, almost, at least.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > At all.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as
well.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black
the butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for
that, and one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and
LOVING space in which that process CAN occur.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found
out my ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just
grabbing him by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands
around his neck and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as
just another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to
come up short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially
for HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or
Down's syndrome next incarnation.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as
well.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with
Kate and Kapah MORE!!
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on
totally at THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever
process they need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or
Savior or Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY
have.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > And ARE!!
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Gary
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > NNB
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling
to go beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it
and feel they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they
sincerely seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have
ever dug before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper
into their own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a
good thing.
>
> > > > > > > Peace, sister
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > kate
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Kate, you say that
>
> > > > > > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness
have not done one thing to create  light"<snip>
>
> > > > > > > > And you know this because..... .you are inside their
heads?????    Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your
ex sisters and brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe
that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral
journey.
>
> > > > > > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving
within"<snip> , but what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny
the 'darkness' that we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue,
finding the Truth" for those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear
and anger of Chinmoy's monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about
this, well, good for you, shine on sister! 
>
> > > > > > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and
"getting on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the
Truth.  Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting
on with things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more
depth and authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
>
> > > > > > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you
can know how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
>
> > > > > > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ >
>
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_ Information] Re: the highest and the not
so high
>
> > > > > > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com
>
> > > > > > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >  
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> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Jack, that was interesting.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going
into it and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a
horror movie.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the
Light if you only feel hate.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only
come from diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth
within, not from an outside source.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing
and gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the
real issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then
nothing will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a
journey that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from
your perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and
shine!
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > kate
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ."
<jack@> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling
the darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good.
No argument there.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been
hurt and is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker.
Well and good.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated
â€" as well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master
and his hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they
have ever encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the
Light, or that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with
their guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the
teachings they absorbed.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came
out of his mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out
of his dhoti?
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your
panties?
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine
involves wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps
another's is to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps
finding the fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to
embrace the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away,
and hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not
wash away.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Jack
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I
disagree. Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy
to seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should
strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on
earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own
highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to
that point.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > kate
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes Kate,
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > But that's not the point.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati,
and all the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing
(and whose names many people know but keep secret because they have not come
out), did they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the
Supreme, sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre,
and they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > subala
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subala,
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for
quite awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a
lot of these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to
create light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
darkness.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > kate
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us
from seeing
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes
reality is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subala
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for
one minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the
Truth, the only reason for my being here on earth.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will
continue to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has
no anger or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My
Highest is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it
begin with us.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kate
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for
one minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the
name of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they
believed was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform
sexual things with another woman/girl in front of him.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with
the highest in themselves?
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how
come we do not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri
Chinmoy, we all have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from
our time in the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences,
light, ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark
side is getting more and more unbearably heavy.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's
understandable you mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive
side even after they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the
truth. It's so easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying
they just CANNOT be true.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22
years and I left 11 years ago.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri
Chinmoy's teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated
for so many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery,
to say the least).
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these
22 years being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood
with my fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean
searching for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as
"my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will
punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank
God.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > subala
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only
boyfriend. He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best
friend. This is in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This
is not a surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves.
There can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups.
com, "journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have
been a huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As
well as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so
furious with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for
me and the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and
absurd that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and
insisting on it to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure
abuse. I guess when you come to think about it, if you make something such a
huge issue for others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it
was for him).
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant
remember the number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only
boyfriend who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a
boyfriend myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something
that occured to  me at the time.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position
these girls were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for
sex had we been asked?
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have
obeyed him because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying
us in his own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system
that he imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said
and reject our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate
the power of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many
are still under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the
hostile forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is
amazing to me that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period
of time out of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also
dismiss all this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything
and it left no opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the
point where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst
forms of abuse there is.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were
affected in different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too
simplistic for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it
just doesnt work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many
years. At its worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened
to you, so it can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you
are in. You simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and
thats that.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what
limits it can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse
us, knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > >       ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
_________ _
>
> > > > > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > http://www.flickr. com/gift/
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > > > > > > >
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>       __________________________________________________________________
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot
with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

It was a one line reply to your post, she said something like, 'that may be your
opinion but I don't believe what those women said'  It seems that the post,
#14269 I think, has been deleted.  If you check back on the site when you were
having the back and forth with Kate one of her replys has been deleted. 
Probably for the best, but it makes the dialog loose a bit of the thread.
Lynn

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...> wrote:

From: goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...>
Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Received: Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:53 AM







 









       Hi Lynn,

I don't remember Kate telling me "point blank" that she did not believe what the
women were saying. I tried to make her react to it but it seems to me she always
avoided the subject and answered by talking about "the Highest", etc.

Can you find the excerpt?



She must be in that very difficult position, like many current fervent
disciples: your whole inner life is based upon the experience you are getting
from your guru: inspiration, aspiration, light, devotion to the highest, sense
of being guided and protected, of being chosen (we've all felt that way) ....and
suddenly something comes up which, if you look at it without immediately
discarding it as a sheer calomny, may force you to reevaluate your vision of the
guru upon which your faith is based, and your whole life is built.



The equation then becomes:

1. Guru is divine, he embodies the Highest, he is an Avatar, he is perfect. I
have always known him as such. My heart tells me this is the Truth.

2. Now some disciples – or persons who were very good disciples just a short
while ago, and who were as fervent and committed as I am now – are speaking
with a sincerity which I honestly am not entitled to doubt, and they are
revealing that the same man, my "perfect Guru" has sexually abused several of
his disciples, whereas he has always strongly advocated purity and considered
sex as the "lower vital", to be avoided always.

3. Can my divine Guru, my perfect master, have lied and abused his disciples
(people like me) and still be divine and perfect???

4. ...What should I now think? What shall I become? What about my spiritual
life?



Denial is the easy way out.

But denial also means believing that those women (who, again, were very good
disciples not so long ago) are liars, and that the whole bunch of ex-disciples
who trust them have become hostile forces. Which, I think, is a heavy weight to
carry on one's conscience.



Dealing with all this is a little less difficult for those who have already left
the path a while ago and have been able to realise that life goes on after "the
path", and that our spirituality doesn't die even if we turn away from Guru.



subala



--- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "lynnisfree2be"
<lynnisfree2be@ ...> wrote:

>

> Yes Gary, as Ben said we need to give people time and space to adjust and
react to this crazy info about Chinmoy.  I was reacting to Kate telling Subala
point blank that she doesn't believe what the women are saying.  I have also
been in contact with Kate to dialog in a more personal and open way, and I hope
she doesn't give up on us here at the exes site, we are all just trying to make
sense of a sad situation that has touched each of us exes personally.

> Lynn

>

>

> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, maladuncan <no_reply@>
wrote:

> > >

> > > Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan,
Eamon is COMPASSION.  Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT.  IMHO, one is
more pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand
where their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be
feeling. Just my 2cents. MA

> > > PS How's Brazil? >>

> >

> > Well, MA, as far as COMPASSION goes, I know for SURE that Udayan has a LOT
of it, and from what I'm picking up from my private correspondence with Missing
Kate, she's got a lot of WARMTH and HUMOR about her as we, AND just for the
record, I don't remember where she called Sundari and Bihagee (see Yogaloy's
blogsite for the most recent Sri Chinmoy Sexcapade revelations) liars, and if
she did that was most unfortunate because CLEARLY these women are ANYTHING but
"liers" as our malapropic and spelling challenged, enshrouded in ignorance and
the miasma of denial and misinformation, Eamon has called them repeatedly.

> >

> > And speaking of brother Eamon, he wouldn't know what COMPASSION was if it
happened to jump up and bite him in the ay ess ess.

> >

> > I think we have to consider the fact that we are ALWAYS operating on two
levels: the relative and the absolute.

> >

> > On the relative level, people need time to heal and to process.

> >

> > On the absolute level, everything is exactly the way it "should" be, and the
ONLY way it can be, and NOBODY is to blame for anything, and each one of us has
to take full responsibility for own life and choices and cannot afford to make
the mistake of looking outside our own being for ANYTHING, since in Truth, we
lack nothing.

> >

> > That being said, MA, I am coming to you from Punta del Este in Uruguay and
am heading to Buenos Aires next week and may or may not (probably not) make it
to Brazil before we head home to JFK airport on Jan.8.

> >

> > The bottom line is that it's All Good, eventhough our former Gurudeva has
turned out to be an Indian rascal of almost the very lowest order.

> >

> > At least he wasn't a pederast like Sai Baba.

> >

> > I think that's fairly safe to say.

> >

> > Although naturally I wouldn't be my next incarnation on it, that's for sure.

> >

> > The way these revelations as starting to pour forth, almost nothing would
surprise me.

> >

> > The ONLY thing that continues to surprise me is the almost absolute DENIAL
some of the current and even some of the ex- disciples continue to CHOOSE to
remain in.

> >

> > Hasta la vista or Chau, as they say here in Uruguay.

> >

> >

> > Gary

> >

> > NNB

> > >

> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "kapah94" <kapah94@>
wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Kate,

> > > > > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,

> > > > > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights

> > > > > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,

> > > > > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which

> > > > > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.

> > > > > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light
wins in the end.  End of story, now just live.

> > > > > Udayan

> > > > > >>

> > > >

> > > > To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.

> > > >

> > > > She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me
on.

> > > >

> > > > Spiritually, of course!!

> > > >

> > > > Let's be clear here.

> > > >

> > > > I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.

> > > >

> > > > Well, almost, at least.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.

> > > >

> > > > As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.

> > > >

> > > > At all.

> > > >

> > > > I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.

> > > >

> > > > In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.

> > > >

> > > > Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.

> > > >

> > > > Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black
the butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.

> > > >

> > > > Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for
that, and one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and
LOVING space in which that process CAN occur.

> > > >

> > > > In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out
my ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."

> > > >

> > > > Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just
grabbing him by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands
around his neck and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.

> > > >

> > > > And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.

> > > >

> > > > Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.

> > > >

> > > > It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as
well.

> > > >

> > > > Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate
and Kapah MORE!!

> > > >

> > > > However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally
at THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process
they need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior
or Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.

> > > >

> > > > And ARE!!

> > > >

> > > > Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.

> > > >

> > > > And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Gary

> > > >

> > > > NNB

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to
go beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and
feel they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they
sincerely seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have
ever dug before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper
into their own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a
good thing.

> > > > > > Peace, sister

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kate

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kate, you say that

> > > > > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness
have not done one thing to create  light"<snip>

> > > > > > > And you know this because..... .you are inside their
heads?????    Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your
ex sisters and brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe
that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral
journey.

> > > > > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>
, but what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness'
that we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth"
for those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of
Chinmoy's monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good
for you, shine on sister! 

> > > > > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and
"getting on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the
Truth.  Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting
on with things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more
depth and authenticity than judging others as weak would have.

> > > > > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can
know how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.

> > > > > > > Just my opinion, Lynn

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ >

> > > > > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_ Information] Re: the highest and the not so
high

> > > > > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >  

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

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> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jack, that was interesting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going
into it and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a
horror movie.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the
Light if you only feel hate.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come
from diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth
within, not from an outside source.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from
your perceived lost soul, and get on with it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > kate

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ."
<jack@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been
hurt and is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker.
Well and good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated
â€" as well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master
and his hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they
have ever encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the
Light, or that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with
their guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the
teachings they absorbed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out
of his mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of
his dhoti?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine
involves wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps
another's is to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps
finding the fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to
embrace the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away,
and hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not
wash away.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jack

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I
disagree. Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy
to seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should
strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on
earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own
highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to
that point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kate

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yes Kate,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But that's not the point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and
all the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and
whose names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out),
did they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme,
sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre,
and they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > subala

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Subala,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for
quite awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a
lot of these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to
create light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
darkness.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > kate

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from
seeing

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes
reality is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Subala

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will
continue to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has
no anger or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My
Highest is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it
begin with us.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > kate

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for
one minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the
name of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they
believed was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform
sexual things with another woman/girl in front of him.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come
we do not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we
all have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in
the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark
side is getting more and more unbearably heavy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's
understandable you mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive
side even after they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the
truth. It's so easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying
they just CANNOT be true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22
years and I left 11 years ago.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri
Chinmoy's teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated
for so many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery,
to say the least).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22
years being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood
with my fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean
searching for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as
"my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will
punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank
God.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > subala

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only
boyfriend. He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best
friend. This is in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This
is not a surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves.
There can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have
been a huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As
well as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so
furious with him for exploiting the girls in this way.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me
and the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and
absurd that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and
insisting on it to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure
abuse. I guess when you come to think about it, if you make something such a
huge issue for others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it
was for him).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember
the number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only
boyfriend who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a
boyfriend myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something
that occured to  me at the time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these
girls were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex
had we been asked?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed
him because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in
his own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the
power of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are
still under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile
forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me
that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out
of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all
this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no
opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the
point where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst
forms of abuse there is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were
affected in different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too
simplistic for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it
just doesnt work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many
years. At its worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened
to you, so it can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you
are in. You simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and
thats that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what
limits it can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse
us, knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > joh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >       ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
_________ _

> > > > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.flickr. com/gift/

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>























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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Lynn,
I don't remember Kate telling me "point blank" that she did not believe what the
women were saying. I tried to make her react to it but it seems to me she always
avoided the subject and answered by talking about "the Highest", etc.
Can you find the excerpt?

She must be in that very difficult position, like many current fervent
disciples: your whole inner life is based upon the experience you are getting
from your guru: inspiration, aspiration, light, devotion to the highest, sense
of being guided and protected, of being chosen (we've all felt that way) ....and
suddenly something comes up which, if you look at it without immediately
discarding it as a sheer calomny, may force you to reevaluate your vision of the
guru upon which your faith is based, and your whole life is built.

The equation then becomes:
1. Guru is divine, he embodies the Highest, he is an Avatar, he is perfect. I
have always known him as such. My heart tells me this is the Truth.
2. Now some disciples – or persons who were very good disciples just a short
while ago, and who were as fervent and committed as I am now – are speaking with
a sincerity which I honestly am not entitled to doubt, and they are revealing
that the same man, my "perfect Guru" has sexually abused several of his
disciples, whereas he has always strongly advocated purity and considered sex as
the "lower vital", to be avoided always.
3. Can my divine Guru, my perfect master, have lied and abused his disciples
(people like me) and still be divine and perfect???
4. ...What should I now think? What shall I become? What about my spiritual
life?

Denial is the easy way out.
But denial also means believing that those women (who, again, were very good
disciples not so long ago) are liars, and that the whole bunch of ex-disciples
who trust them have become hostile forces. Which, I think, is a heavy weight to
carry on one's conscience.

Dealing with all this is a little less difficult for those who have already left
the path a while ago and have been able to realise that life goes on after "the
path", and that our spirituality doesn't die even if we turn away from Guru.

subala



--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "lynnisfree2be"
<lynnisfree2be@...> wrote:
>
> Yes Gary, as Ben said we need to give people time and space to adjust and
react to this crazy info about Chinmoy.  I was reacting to Kate telling Subala
point blank that she doesn't believe what the women are saying.  I have also
been in contact with Kate to dialog in a more personal and open way, and I hope
she doesn't give up on us here at the exes site, we are all just trying to make
sense of a sad situation that has touched each of us exes personally.
> Lynn
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma" <dukeofdharma@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, maladuncan <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan,
Eamon is COMPASSION.  Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT.  IMHO, one is
more pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand
where their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be
feeling. Just my 2cents. MA
> > > PS How's Brazil? >>
> >
> > Well, MA, as far as COMPASSION goes, I know for SURE that Udayan has a LOT
of it, and from what I'm picking up from my private correspondence with Missing
Kate, she's got a lot of WARMTH and HUMOR about her as we, AND just for the
record, I don't remember where she called Sundari and Bihagee (see Yogaloy's
blogsite for the most recent Sri Chinmoy Sexcapade revelations) liars, and if
she did that was most unfortunate because CLEARLY these women are ANYTHING but
"liers" as our malapropic and spelling challenged, enshrouded in ignorance and
the miasma of denial and misinformation, Eamon has called them repeatedly.
> >
> > And speaking of brother Eamon, he wouldn't know what COMPASSION was if it
happened to jump up and bite him in the ay ess ess.
> >
> > I think we have to consider the fact that we are ALWAYS operating on two
levels: the relative and the absolute.
> >
> > On the relative level, people need time to heal and to process.
> >
> > On the absolute level, everything is exactly the way it "should" be, and the
ONLY way it can be, and NOBODY is to blame for anything, and each one of us has
to take full responsibility for own life and choices and cannot afford to make
the mistake of looking outside our own being for ANYTHING, since in Truth, we
lack nothing.
> >
> > That being said, MA, I am coming to you from Punta del Este in Uruguay and
am heading to Buenos Aires next week and may or may not (probably not) make it
to Brazil before we head home to JFK airport on Jan.8.
> >
> > The bottom line is that it's All Good, eventhough our former Gurudeva has
turned out to be an Indian rascal of almost the very lowest order.
> >
> > At least he wasn't a pederast like Sai Baba.
> >
> > I think that's fairly safe to say.
> >
> > Although naturally I wouldn't be my next incarnation on it, that's for sure.
> >
> > The way these revelations as starting to pour forth, almost nothing would
surprise me.
> >
> > The ONLY thing that continues to surprise me is the almost absolute DENIAL
some of the current and even some of the ex- disciples continue to CHOOSE to
remain in.
> >
> > Hasta la vista or Chau, as they say here in Uruguay.
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > NNB
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kate,
> > > > > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> > > > > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> > > > > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> > > > > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> > > > > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> > > > > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light
wins in the end.  End of story, now just live.
> > > > > Udayan
> > > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.
> > > >
> > > > She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me
on.
> > > >
> > > > Spiritually, of course!!
> > > >
> > > > Let's be clear here.
> > > >
> > > > I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.
> > > >
> > > > Well, almost, at least.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.
> > > >
> > > > As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.
> > > >
> > > > At all.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.
> > > >
> > > > In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.
> > > >
> > > > Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.
> > > >
> > > > Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black
the butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.
> > > >
> > > > Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for
that, and one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and
LOVING space in which that process CAN occur.
> > > >
> > > > In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out
my ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."
> > > >
> > > > Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just
grabbing him by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands
around his neck and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.
> > > >
> > > > And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.
> > > >
> > > > Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.
> > > >
> > > > It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as
well.
> > > >
> > > > Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate
and Kapah MORE!!
> > > >
> > > > However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally
at THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process
they need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior
or Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.
> > > >
> > > > And ARE!!
> > > >
> > > > Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.
> > > >
> > > > And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > NNB
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to
go beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and
feel they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they
sincerely seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have
ever dug before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper
into their own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a
good thing.
> > > > > > Peace, sister
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kate, you say that
> > > > > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have
not done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > > > > > And you know this because......you are inside their
heads?????    Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex
sisters and brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that
EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral
journey.
> > > > > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>,
but what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness'
that we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > > > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and
"getting on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the
Truth.  Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on
with things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth
and authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
> > > > > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can
know how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
> > > > > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > > > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so
high
> > > > > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going
into it and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a
horror movie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the
Light if you only feel hate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come
from diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth
within, not from an outside source.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from
your perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > kate
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ."
<jack@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been
hurt and is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker.
Well and good.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€"
as well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out
of his mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of
his dhoti?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine
involves wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps
another's is to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps
finding the fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to
embrace the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away,
and hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not
wash away.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I
disagree. Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy
to seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should
strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on
earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own
highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to
that point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and
all the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and
whose names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out),
did they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme,
sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre,
and they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > subala
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Subala,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for
quite awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a
lot of these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to
create light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
darkness.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from
seeing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes
reality is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subala
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will
continue to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has
no anger or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My
Highest is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it
begin with us.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for
one minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the
name of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they
believed was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform
sexual things with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come
we do not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we
all have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in
the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark
side is getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's
understandable you mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive
side even after they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the
truth. It's so easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying
they just CANNOT be true.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22
years and I left 11 years ago.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri
Chinmoy's teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated
for so many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery,
to say the least).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22
years being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood
with my fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean
searching for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as
"my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will
punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank
God.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > subala
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only
boyfriend. He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best
friend. This is in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This
is not a surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves.
There can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have
been a huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As
well as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so
furious with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me
and the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and
absurd that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and
insisting on it to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure
abuse. I guess when you come to think about it, if you make something such a
huge issue for others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it
was for him).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember
the number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only
boyfriend who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a
boyfriend myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something
that occured to  me at the time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these
girls were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex
had we been asked?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed
him because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in
his own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the
power of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are
still under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile
forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me
that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out
of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all
this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no
opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the
point where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst
forms of abuse there is.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were
affected in different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too
simplistic for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it
just doesnt work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many
years. At its worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened
to you, so it can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you
are in. You simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and
thats that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what
limits it can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse
us, knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      
__________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Thanks, Ben. Well said.

The voices of those who think that the words of the violated women are not true
should remain as contributors here. (The sane ones, not Eamon.) Indeed, we
should encourage them to speak, and to speak plainly and without the shrouds of
symbolic speech.

I, for one, would like to read the words of those who can tell us why  and how
the women who were fucked by guru are lying. Let's hear some evidence of "not
true."

I, for one, might be willing to change my mind if I am convinced otherwise.


Jack



--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminspector"
<benjaminspector@...> wrote:
>
> To all,
>
> I have very small brain, and reading this discussion is making my head hurt.
>
> I think the brave women who came out and told their story are heroes.
> I support them fully. All ex-disciples who believe that Sri Chinmoy is a fake
also fully support OUR heroes.
>
> Quoting from Forest Gump: That's all I'm going to say about that.
>
> There are many disciples and ex-disciples who think Sri Chinmoy is an Avatar.
They believe he is celibate, would never have sex with disciples and that the
women who told the stories are liars.
>
> While some of these true believers will never change their minds, some may
reach the opinion that Sri Chinmoy is human, not divine and that the testimony
of many outweighs the denial of one.
>
> In the process of changing from total devotees of a Guru, to being Skeptics,
most people go through the stages of denial, anger, sadness and finally
acceptance.
>
> The Sri Chinmoy Information Group finds itself in a precarious position. Above
all the forum moderators want to protect those who have come out and told their
stories about Sri Chinmoy. When a poster calls their stories "lies" the
moderators feel called on to silence and ban that poster to keep the Group a
safe place where people can open up.
>
> However, I personally feel there is a distinction between fanatic apologists
for Sri Chinmoy and those who are going through a denial phase and may get to a
point where they can re-evaluate their loyalty to him.
>
> I, myself, don't know how to tell who is hard core and who can change. This is
too hard a problem for me.
>
> God Bless the moderators and the hard job they have to perform.
>
>
>

Yes Gary, as Ben said we need to give people time and space to adjust and react
to this crazy info about Chinmoy.  I was reacting to Kate telling Subala point
blank that she doesn't believe what the women are saying.  I have also been in
contact with Kate to dialog in a more personal and open way, and I hope she
doesn't give up on us here at the exes site, we are all just trying to make
sense of a sad situation that has touched each of us exes personally.
Lynn


--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, maladuncan <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan,
Eamon is COMPASSION.  Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT.  IMHO, one is
more pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand
where their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be
feeling. Just my 2cents. MA
> > PS How's Brazil? >>
>
> Well, MA, as far as COMPASSION goes, I know for SURE that Udayan has a LOT of
it, and from what I'm picking up from my private correspondence with Missing
Kate, she's got a lot of WARMTH and HUMOR about her as we, AND just for the
record, I don't remember where she called Sundari and Bihagee (see Yogaloy's
blogsite for the most recent Sri Chinmoy Sexcapade revelations) liars, and if
she did that was most unfortunate because CLEARLY these women are ANYTHING but
"liers" as our malapropic and spelling challenged, enshrouded in ignorance and
the miasma of denial and misinformation, Eamon has called them repeatedly.
>
> And speaking of brother Eamon, he wouldn't know what COMPASSION was if it
happened to jump up and bite him in the ay ess ess.
>
> I think we have to consider the fact that we are ALWAYS operating on two
levels: the relative and the absolute.
>
> On the relative level, people need time to heal and to process.
>
> On the absolute level, everything is exactly the way it "should" be, and the
ONLY way it can be, and NOBODY is to blame for anything, and each one of us has
to take full responsibility for own life and choices and cannot afford to make
the mistake of looking outside our own being for ANYTHING, since in Truth, we
lack nothing.
>
> That being said, MA, I am coming to you from Punta del Este in Uruguay and am
heading to Buenos Aires next week and may or may not (probably not) make it to
Brazil before we head home to JFK airport on Jan.8.
>
> The bottom line is that it's All Good, eventhough our former Gurudeva has
turned out to be an Indian rascal of almost the very lowest order.
>
> At least he wasn't a pederast like Sai Baba.
>
> I think that's fairly safe to say.
>
> Although naturally I wouldn't be my next incarnation on it, that's for sure.
>
> The way these revelations as starting to pour forth, almost nothing would
surprise me.
>
> The ONLY thing that continues to surprise me is the almost absolute DENIAL
some of the current and even some of the ex- disciples continue to CHOOSE to
remain in.
>
> Hasta la vista or Chau, as they say here in Uruguay.
>
>
> Gary
>
> NNB
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kate,
> > > > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> > > > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> > > > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> > > > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> > > > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> > > > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins
in the end.  End of story, now just live.
> > > > Udayan
> > > > >>
> > >
> > > To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.
> > >
> > > She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me
on.
> > >
> > > Spiritually, of course!!
> > >
> > > Let's be clear here.
> > >
> > > I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.
> > >
> > > Well, almost, at least.
> > >
> > > Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.
> > >
> > > As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.
> > >
> > > At all.
> > >
> > > I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.
> > >
> > > In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.
> > >
> > > Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.
> > >
> > > Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black the
butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.
> > >
> > > Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for that,
and one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and LOVING
space in which that process CAN occur.
> > >
> > > In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out my
ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."
> > >
> > > Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just grabbing
him by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands around his
neck and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.
> > >
> > > And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.
> > >
> > > Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.
> > >
> > > It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as well.
> > >
> > > Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate
and Kapah MORE!!
> > >
> > > However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally
at THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process
they need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior
or Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.
> > >
> > > And ARE!!
> > >
> > > Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.
> > >
> > > And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > NNB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> > > > > Peace, sister
> > > > >
> > > > > kate
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kate, you say that
> > > > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have
not done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > > > > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????   
Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and
brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and
COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > > > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>,
but what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness'
that we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and
"getting on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the
Truth.  Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on
with things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth
and authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
> > > > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can
know how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
> > > > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so
high
> > > > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into
it and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror
movie.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light
if you only feel hate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come
from diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth
within, not from an outside source.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ."
<jack@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt
and is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well
and good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as
well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of
his mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine
involves wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps
another's is to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps
finding the fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to
embrace the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away,
and hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not
wash away.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jack
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I
disagree. Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy
to seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should
strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on
earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own
highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to
that point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > kate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and
all the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and
whose names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out),
did they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme,
sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and
they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > subala
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Subala,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for
quite awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a
lot of these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to
create light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
darkness.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from
seeing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes
reality is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Subala
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will
continue to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has
no anger or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My
Highest is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it
begin with us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one
minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name
of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come
we do not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we
all have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in
the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side
is getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable
you mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after
they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so
easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT
be true.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years
and I left 11 years ago.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri
Chinmoy's teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for
so many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to
say the least).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22
years being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood
with my fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean
searching for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as
"my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will
punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank
God.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > subala
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only
boyfriend. He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best
friend. This is in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This
is not a surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves.
There can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been
a huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me
and the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and
absurd that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and
insisting on it to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure
abuse. I guess when you come to think about it, if you make something such a
huge issue for others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it
was for him).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember
the number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only
boyfriend who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these
girls were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex
had we been asked?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed
him because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in
his own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the
power of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are
still under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile
forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me
that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out
of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all
this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no
opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the
point where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst
forms of abuse there is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were
affected in different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too
simplistic for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it
just doesnt work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many
years. At its worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened
to you, so it can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you
are in. You simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and
thats that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what
limits it can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse
us, knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      
__________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, maladuncan <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan, Eamon
is COMPASSION.  Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT.  IMHO, one is more
pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand where
their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be feeling.
Just my 2cents. MA
> PS How's Brazil? >>

Well, MA, as far as COMPASSION goes, I know for SURE that Udayan has a LOT of
it, and from what I'm picking up from my private correspondence with Missing
Kate, she's got a lot of WARMTH and HUMOR about her as we, AND just for the
record, I don't remember where she called Sundari and Bihagee (see Yogaloy's
blogsite for the most recent Sri Chinmoy Sexcapade revelations) liars, and if
she did that was most unfortunate because CLEARLY these women are ANYTHING but
"liers" as our malapropic and spelling challenged, enshrouded in ignorance and
the miasma of denial and misinformation, Eamon has called them repeatedly.

And speaking of brother Eamon, he wouldn't know what COMPASSION was if it
happened to jump up and bite him in the ay ess ess.

I think we have to consider the fact that we are ALWAYS operating on two levels:
the relative and the absolute.

On the relative level, people need time to heal and to process.

On the absolute level, everything is exactly the way it "should" be, and the
ONLY way it can be, and NOBODY is to blame for anything, and each one of us has
to take full responsibility for own life and choices and cannot afford to make
the mistake of looking outside our own being for ANYTHING, since in Truth, we
lack nothing.

That being said, MA, I am coming to you from Punta del Este in Uruguay and am
heading to Buenos Aires next week and may or may not (probably not) make it to
Brazil before we head home to JFK airport on Jan.8.

The bottom line is that it's All Good, eventhough our former Gurudeva has turned
out to be an Indian rascal of almost the very lowest order.

At least he wasn't a pederast like Sai Baba.

I think that's fairly safe to say.

Although naturally I wouldn't be my next incarnation on it, that's for sure.

The way these revelations as starting to pour forth, almost nothing would
surprise me.

The ONLY thing that continues to surprise me is the almost absolute DENIAL some
of the current and even some of the ex- disciples continue to CHOOSE to remain
in.

Hasta la vista or Chau, as they say here in Uruguay.


Gary

NNB
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma" <dukeofdharma@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Kate,
> > > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> > > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> > > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> > > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> > > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> > > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins
in the end.  End of story, now just live.
> > > Udayan
> > > >>
> >
> > To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.
> >
> > She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me on.
> >
> > Spiritually, of course!!
> >
> > Let's be clear here.
> >
> > I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.
> >
> > Well, almost, at least.
> >
> > Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.
> >
> > As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.
> >
> > At all.
> >
> > I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.
> >
> > In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.
> >
> > Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.
> >
> > Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black the
butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.
> >
> > Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for that,
and one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and LOVING
space in which that process CAN occur.
> >
> > In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out my
ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."
> >
> > Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just grabbing
him by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands around his
neck and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.
> >
> > And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.
> >
> > Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.
> >
> > It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as well.
> >
> > Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate and
Kapah MORE!!
> >
> > However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally at
THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process they
need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior or
Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.
> >
> > And ARE!!
> >
> > Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.
> >
> > And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > NNB
> >
> >
> >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> > > > Peace, sister
> > > >
> > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kate, you say that
> > > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > > > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????   
Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and
brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and
COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>, but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting
on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth. 
Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with
things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and
authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
> > > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know
how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
> > > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
> > > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it
and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror
movie.
> > > > >
> > > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if
you only feel hate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > kate
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ."
<jack@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt
and is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well
and good.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as
well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of
his mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine
involves wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps
another's is to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps
finding the fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to
embrace the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away,
and hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not
wash away.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jack
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I
disagree. Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy
to seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should
strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on
earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own
highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to
that point.
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > kate
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all
the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and
they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > subala
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Subala,
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from
seeing
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality
is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Subala
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will
continue to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has
no anger or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My
Highest is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it
begin with us.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one
minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name
of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we
do not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we
all have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in
the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side
is getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable
you mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after
they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so
easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT
be true.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years
and I left 11 years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22
years being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood
with my fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean
searching for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as
"my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will
punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank
God.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > subala
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only
boyfriend. He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best
friend. This is in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This
is not a surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves.
There can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and
the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd
that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it
to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess
when you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for
others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these
girls were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex
had we been asked?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the
power of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are
still under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile
forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me
that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out
of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all
this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no
opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected
in different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic
for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt
work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits
it can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >      
__________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

To all,

I have very small brain, and reading this discussion is making my head hurt.

I think the brave women who came out and told their story are heroes.
I support them fully. All ex-disciples who believe that Sri Chinmoy is a fake
also fully support OUR heroes.

Quoting from Forest Gump: That's all I'm going to say about that.

There are many disciples and ex-disciples who think Sri Chinmoy is an Avatar.
They believe he is celibate, would never have sex with disciples and that the
women who told the stories are liars.

While some of these true believers will never change their minds, some may reach
the opinion that Sri Chinmoy is human, not divine and that the testimony of many
outweighs the denial of one.

In the process of changing from total devotees of a Guru, to being Skeptics,
most people go through the stages of denial, anger, sadness and finally
acceptance.

The Sri Chinmoy Information Group finds itself in a precarious position. Above
all the forum moderators want to protect those who have come out and told their
stories about Sri Chinmoy. When a poster calls their stories "lies" the
moderators feel called on to silence and ban that poster to keep the Group a
safe place where people can open up.

However, I personally feel there is a distinction between fanatic apologists for
Sri Chinmoy and those who are going through a denial phase and may get to a
point where they can re-evaluate their loyalty to him.

I, myself, don't know how to tell who is hard core and who can change. This is
too hard a problem for me.

God Bless the moderators and the hard job they have to perform.







--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@...>
wrote:
>
> I believe that it is important to remember that Kate very clearly called the
women sexually abused by Chinmoy LIARS!!!  To say "You are the most right on
voice here in a long time" supports this victim bashing and does immense harm in
trying to let the 'truth' be revealed and in giving those abused a 'safe and
supportive' place to talk about their experiences.  There are not many places
and they are being treated very brutally by their former home/cult.
> As far as "not being relevant" and frying "in butter that is already black" 
this attitude is attempting to silence people who this story is very relevant
to, and if we do not clearly deal with our past, where our spiritual journeys
began, then moving ahead will be running away from rather than dealing with and
then moving on with a strong and healthy personal base.  We are all at
different places in our journeys, telling people who have just started their
journey outside the cult, that they need to 'move on' with out taking the time
to process lacks empathy and compassion.
> Moving on?  "see through the blackness and you see the light"  It is all
ONE, there is nowhere to go, neti, neti, it is All part of the journey, so let's
let it unfold with out judgment, or fear of the dark.
> Lynn
>
>
> --- On Sun, 11/22/09, dukeofdharma <dukeofdharma@...> wrote:
>
> From: dukeofdharma <dukeofdharma@...>
> Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already
> To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 2:24 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "kapah94" <kapah94@ >
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Kate,
>
> > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
>
> > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
>
> > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
>
> > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
>
> > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
>
> > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in
the end.  End of story, now just live.
>
> > Udayan
>
> > >>
>
>
>
> To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.
>
>
>
> She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me on.
>
>
>
> Spiritually, of course!!
>
>
>
> Let's be clear here.
>
>
>
> I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.
>
>
>
> Well, almost, at least.
>
>
>
> Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.
>
>
>
> As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.
>
>
>
> At all.
>
>
>
> I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.
>
>
>
> In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.
>
>
>
> Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.
>
>
>
> Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black the
butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.
>
>
>
> Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for that, and
one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and LOVING space in
which that process CAN occur.
>
>
>
> In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out my
ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."
>
>
>
> Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just grabbing him
by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands around his neck
and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.
>
>
>
> And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.
>
>
>
> Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.
>
>
>
> It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as well.
>
>
>
> Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate and
Kapah MORE!!
>
>
>
> However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally at
THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process they
need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior or
Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.
>
>
>
> And ARE!!
>
>
>
> Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.
>
>
>
> And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> NNB
>
>
>
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
>
> > > Peace, sister
>
> > >
>
> > > kate
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@ > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Kate, you say that
>
> > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>
>
> > > > And you know this because..... .you are inside their
heads?????    Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your
ex sisters and brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe
that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral
journey.
>
> > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip> , but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
>
> > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting
on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth. 
Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with
things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and
authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
>
> > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know
how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
>
> > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ >
>
> > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_ Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
>
> > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com
>
> > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >  
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Jack, that was interesting.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it
and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror
movie.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if
you only feel hate.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > kate
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and
is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and
good.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as
well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have
ever encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the
Light, or that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with
their guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the
teachings they absorbed.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace
the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and
hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Jack
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > kate
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > Yes Kate,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > But that's not the point.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all
the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and
they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > subala
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Subala,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > kate
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality
is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > Subala
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue
to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger
or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with
us.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > kate
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one
minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name
of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do
not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and
I left 11 years ago.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > subala
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and
the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd
that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it
to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess
when you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for
others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls
were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power
of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it
can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > >
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>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >       ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> > > >
>
> > > > http://www.flickr. com/gift/
>
> > > >
>
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > > >
>
> > >
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> >
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>       __________________________________________________________________
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer®
8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at
http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

________________________________
From: maladuncan <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 21:13:51
Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already


Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan, Eamon
is COMPASSION.

I second that, MD. Of all the Chinese Buddhist gods & goddesses, the one who
affects me the strongest, with a hit to the heart, is Kwanyin, Goddess of
Compassion. She is vivid, living and a force of purity.
Kannon-sama to Japanese Buddhists.

b








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe that it is important to remember that Kate very clearly called the
women sexually abused by Chinmoy LIARS!!!  To say "You are the most right on
voice here in a long time" supports this victim bashing and does immense harm in
trying to let the 'truth' be revealed and in giving those abused a 'safe and
supportive' place to talk about their experiences.  There are not many places
and they are being treated very brutally by their former home/cult.
As far as "not being relevant" and frying "in butter that is already black" 
this attitude is attempting to silence people who this story is very relevant
to, and if we do not clearly deal with our past, where our spiritual journeys
began, then moving ahead will be running away from rather than dealing with and
then moving on with a strong and healthy personal base.  We are all at
different places in our journeys, telling people who have just started their
journey outside the cult, that they need to 'move on' with out taking the time
to process lacks empathy and compassion.
Moving on?  "see through the blackness and you see the light"  It is all ONE,
there is nowhere to go, neti, neti, it is All part of the journey, so let's let
it unfold with out judgment, or fear of the dark.
Lynn


--- On Sun, 11/22/09, dukeofdharma <dukeofdharma@...> wrote:

From: dukeofdharma <dukeofdharma@...>
Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Missing Kate Already
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 2:24 AM







 













--- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "kapah94" <kapah94@... >
wrote:

>

> Kate,

> You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,

> of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights

> are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,

> just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which

> try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.

> See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in
the end.  End of story, now just live.

> Udayan

> >>



To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.



She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me on.



Spiritually, of course!!



Let's be clear here.



I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.



Well, almost, at least.



Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.



As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.



At all.



I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.



In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.



Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.



Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black the butter
of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME point, we
ALL have to do it.



Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for that, and
one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and LOVING space in
which that process CAN occur.



In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out my
ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."



Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just grabbing him by
his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands around his neck
and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.



And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just another
player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up short, a
failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for HIMSELF, has
been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.



Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.



It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as well.



Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate and
Kapah MORE!!



However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally at THIS
point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process they need
to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior or Buddha
or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.



And ARE!!



Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.



And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.



Gary



NNB



> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:

> >

> > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.

> > Peace, sister

> >

> > kate

> >

> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Kate, you say that

> > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>

> > > And you know this because..... .you are inside their
heads?????    Do you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your
ex sisters and brothers to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe
that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not only light inducing, but part of an integral
journey.

> > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip> , but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 

> > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting
on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth. 
Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with
things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and
authenticity than judging others as weak would have.

> > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know how
others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless preoccupation,
while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness expanding endeavor.

> > > Just my opinion, Lynn

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@ >

> > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_ Information] Re: the highest and the not so high

> > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com

> > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >  

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jack, that was interesting.

> > >

> > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it and
trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror movie.

> > >

> > > I prefer the Light, as you know.

> > >

> > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if you
only feel hate.

> > >

> > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.

> > >

> > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.

> > >

> > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.

> > >

> > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > kate

> > >

> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the darkness
means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No argument
there.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and is
expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and good.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as
well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have
ever encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the
Light, or that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with
their guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the
teachings they absorbed.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace
the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and
hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Jack

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kate

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Yes Kate,

> > >

> > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.

> > >

> > > > > > But that's not the point.

> > >

> > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all the
others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?

> > >

> > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and they
have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the Light?
Come on...

> > >

> > > > > > subala

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > Subala,

> > >

> > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.

> > >

> > > > > > > kate

> > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.

> > >

> > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.

> > >

> > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing

> > >

> > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).

> > >

> > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality is
another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the beautiful
deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the Highest in also
within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.

> > >

> > > > > > > > Subala

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one minute.
I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth, the only
reason for my being here on earth.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue
to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger
or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with
us.

> > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > kate

> > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one minute
and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name of
their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the highest
in themselves?

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do
not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and I
left 11 years ago.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring sentences,
but the same things can be found in other sources.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > subala

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and the
one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd that
guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it to
such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess when
you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for others,
it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls
were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power of
the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it
can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > joh

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >       ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

> > >

> > > http://www.flickr. com/gift/

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>























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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Isn't that what we are doing here on this site, finding support to move on - to
move on in our own, at our own pace?

To focus on a bright future (or present) is never wrong, and I think most of us
do that most of the time, but when shadow-issues pop up they should be examined.

Personally I bought a few books spiritual classics, inspired by this site, I
have learned a lot about Tibetan buddhism and got a few dharma quotes stuck down
my throat as well :-) So, Yes, I/we am/are moving on.

V




--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@> wrote:
> >
> > Kate,
> > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in
the end.  End of story, now just live.
> > Udayan
> > >
>
> Kapah is very wise.
>
> I say this NOT in jest.
>
> At some point, we must come to the END of our story and Cherai Veti, Move On!
Move On! without all the traipsings and ILLUSIONS of our PERSONAL story.
>
> In the MEANTIME, let us consider WHO we would be without our story?
>
> A very good question to ponder, imo.
>
> For as Carlos Casteneda says, if you don't have a story, you don't have to
live up to it.
>
> Haha.  That's why I gave up my story long ago.
>
> PS: Yeah, I WISH!!!
>
>
> Gary
>
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> > > Peace, sister
> > >
> > > kate
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kate, you say that
> > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????    Do
you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and brothers
to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are
not only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>, but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting
on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth. 
Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with
things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and
authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
> > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know
how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
> > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > > >
> > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
> > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > > >
> > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it
and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror
movie.
> > > >
> > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > > >
> > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if
you only feel hate.
> > > >
> > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > > >
> > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > > >
> > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and
is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and
good.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as
well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace
the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and
hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jack
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > > >
> > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > > >
> > > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > > >
> > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all
the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
> > > >
> > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and
they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
> > > >
> > > > > > > subala
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > Subala,
> > > >
> > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality
is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Subala
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue
to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger
or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with
us.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one
minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name
of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do
not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and
I left 11 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > subala
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and
the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd
that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it
to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess
when you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for
others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls
were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power
of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it
can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >       __________________________________________________________________
> > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Right on Gary,  What seems to be missing from posters like Kate, Udayan, Eamon
is COMPASSION.  Without which, all comes off as JUDGEMENT.  IMHO, one is more
pursuasive and effective in helping others by simply trying to understand where
their coming from w/o telling them what they should and shouldn't be feeling.
Just my 2cents. MA
PS How's Brazil?

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "dukeofdharma"
<dukeofdharma@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@> wrote:
> >
> > Kate,
> > You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> > of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> > are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> > just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> > try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> > See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in
the end.  End of story, now just live.
> > Udayan
> > >>
>
> To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.
>
> She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me on.
>
> Spiritually, of course!!
>
> Let's be clear here.
>
> I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.
>
> Well, almost, at least.
>
> Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.
>
> As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.
>
> At all.
>
> I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.
>
> In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.
>
> Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.
>
> Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black the
butter of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME
point, we ALL have to do it.
>
> Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for that, and
one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and LOVING space in
which that process CAN occur.
>
> In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out my
ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."
>
> Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just grabbing him
by his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands around his neck
and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.
>
> And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just
another player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up
short, a failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for
HIMSELF, has been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.
>
> Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.
>
> It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as well.
>
> Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate and
Kapah MORE!!
>
> However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally at
THIS point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process they
need to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior or
Buddha or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.
>
> And ARE!!
>
> Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.
>
> And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.
>
>
> Gary
>
> NNB
>
>
>
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> > > Peace, sister
> > >
> > > kate
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson
<lynnisfree2be@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kate, you say that
> > > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????    Do
you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and brothers
to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are
not only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>, but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting
on with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth. 
Others, like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with
things, and from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and
authenticity than judging others as weak would have.
> > > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know
how others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless
preoccupation, while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness
expanding endeavor.
> > > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > > >
> > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
> > > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > > >
> > > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it
and trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror
movie.
> > > >
> > > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > > >
> > > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if
you only feel hate.
> > > >
> > > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > > >
> > > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > > >
> > > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the
darkness means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No
argument there.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and
is expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and
good.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as
well as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his
hidden lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace
the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and
hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jack
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > > >
> > > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > > >
> > > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > > >
> > > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all
the others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
> > > >
> > > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and
they have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the
Light? Come on...
> > > >
> > > > > > > subala
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > Subala,
> > > >
> > > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality
is another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Subala
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one
minute. I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth,
the only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue
to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger
or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with
us.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one
minute and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name
of their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the
highest in themselves?
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do
not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and
I left 11 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring
sentences, but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > subala
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and
the one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd
that guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it
to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess
when you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for
others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls
were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power
of the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it
can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >       __________________________________________________________________
> > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@...> wrote:
>
> Kate,
> You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in
the end.  End of story, now just live.
> Udayan
> >

Kapah is very wise.

I say this NOT in jest.

At some point, we must come to the END of our story and Cherai Veti, Move On!
Move On! without all the traipsings and ILLUSIONS of our PERSONAL story.

In the MEANTIME, let us consider WHO we would be without our story?

A very good question to ponder, imo.

For as Carlos Casteneda says, if you don't have a story, you don't have to live
up to it.

Haha.  That's why I gave up my story long ago.

PS: Yeah, I WISH!!!


Gary

> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> > Peace, sister
> >
> > kate
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Kate, you say that
> > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????    Do
you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and brothers
to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are
not only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>, but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting on
with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth.  Others,
like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with things, and
from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and authenticity
than judging others as weak would have.
> > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know how
others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless preoccupation,
while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness expanding endeavor.
> > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
> > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > >
> > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it and
trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror movie.
> > >
> > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > >
> > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if you
only feel hate.
> > >
> > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
> > >
> > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > >
> > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > >
> > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > kate
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the darkness
means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No argument
there.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and is
expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and good.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as well
as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his hidden
lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace
the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and
hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Jack
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > kate
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > >
> > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > >
> > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > >
> > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all the
others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
> > >
> > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and they
have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the Light?
Come on...
> > >
> > > > > > subala
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Subala,
> > >
> > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
> > >
> > > > > > > kate
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > >
> > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > >
> > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> > >
> > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > >
> > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality is
another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the beautiful
deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the Highest in also
within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > >
> > > > > > > > Subala
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one minute.
I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth, the only
reason for my being here on earth.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue
to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger
or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with
us.
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > kate
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one minute
and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name of
their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the highest
in themselves?
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do
not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and I
left 11 years ago.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring sentences,
but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > subala
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and the
one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd that
guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it to
such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess when
you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for others,
it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls
were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power of
the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it
can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >       __________________________________________________________________
> > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "kapah94" <kapah94@...> wrote:
>
> Kate,
> You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
> of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
> are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
> just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
> try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
> See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in
the end.  End of story, now just live.
> Udayan
> >>

To tell the Truth, I'm starting to miss Kate already.

She certainly has that inner spark of divine spunk that really turns me on.

Spiritually, of course!!

Let's be clear here.

I've totally transcended all of those nasty "lower vital" urges.

Well, almost, at least.

Yeah, cravings and aversions: very bad, very bad.

As for Eamon,  however, I can't say that I miss him.

At all.

I don't think he has any divine spunk or inner spark.

In fact, imo, he doesn't generate anything but utter stupidity.

Your mileage may certainly vary, however, and I'm sure his does as well.

Burning your bridges and moving on from the past, no matter how black the butter
of those sickening memories, is not an easy thing to do, but at SOME point, we
ALL have to do it.

Some will take longer than others, and I think we have to ALLOW for that, and
one of the VERY main purposes of this forum to create a safe and LOVING space in
which that process CAN occur.

In my own case, I went through of LOT of INTENSE ANGER when I found out my
ex-Avatar was a fraud and a horny manipulator and abuser of innocent and
trusting women whose only real goal in life was to please him "in his own way."

Just like Mala (see Jayanti's blog) I thought MANY times of just grabbing him by
his dhoti and shaking the crap out of him or putting my hands around his neck
and SQUEEZING it tightly while getting TOTALLY in his face.

And then that all passed (in time) and now I've come to see him as just another
player in the Divine Comedy of life, one whose role has been to come up short, a
failure and a fool, and someone who, unfortunately, especially for HIMSELF, has
been the cause of a LOT of PAIN and ANGUISH for others.

Who knows?  Maybe HE'LL be the one who winds up getting cancer or Down's
syndrome next incarnation.

It would certainly be ironic, and some would say all too fitting as well.

Once again, "from the highest point of view" I couldn't agree with Kate and
Kapah MORE!!

However, not everybody is READY, willing or even Able to move on totally at THIS
point and we MUST, I feel, let EVERYBODY go through whatever process they need
to go through before really GETTING that NO Guru or Avatar or Savior or Buddha
or ANYBODY else, in fact, is gonna give them what they ALEADY have.

And ARE!!

Aum Shanti and Praise the Lord.

And more than anything else, Tat Tvam Asi.


Gary

NNB



> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> > Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go
beyond their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel
they cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely
seek the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> > Peace, sister
> >
> > kate
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Kate, you say that
> > >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not
done one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????    Do
you consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and brothers
to be the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are
not only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>, but
what is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that
we may find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for
those who were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's
monumental betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you,
shine on sister! 
> > > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting on
with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth.  Others,
like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with things, and
from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and authenticity
than judging others as weak would have.
> > > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know how
others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless preoccupation,
while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness expanding endeavor.
> > > Just my opinion, Lynn
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
> > > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack, that was interesting.
> > >
> > > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it and
trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror movie.
> > >
> > > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> > >
> > > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if you
only feel hate.
> > >
> > > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
> > >
> > > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and
gnashing of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real
issue... what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing
will stop you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey
that just goes on an on ad nauseum.
> > >
> > > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> > >
> > > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > kate
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the darkness
means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No argument
there.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and is
expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and good.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as well
as a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his hidden
lust â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever
encountered. It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or
that they don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their
guru, a pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings
they absorbed.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace
the sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and
hope that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Jack
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > kate
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Yes Kate,
> > >
> > > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > >
> > > > > > But that's not the point.
> > >
> > > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all the
others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
> > >
> > > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and they
have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the Light?
Come on...
> > >
> > > > > > subala
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Subala,
> > >
> > > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
> > >
> > > > > > > kate
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > >
> > > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > >
> > > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> > >
> > > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > >
> > > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality is
another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the beautiful
deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the Highest in also
within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > >
> > > > > > > > Subala
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one minute.
I can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth, the only
reason for my being here on earth.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue
to do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger
or bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with
us.
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > kate
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one minute
and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name of
their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the highest
in themselves?
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do
not seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and I
left 11 years ago.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so
many years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring sentences,
but the same things can be found in other sources.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > subala
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a
huge shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well
as shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and the
one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd that
guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it to
such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess when
you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for others,
it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the
number of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend
who can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend
myself and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that
occured to  me at the time.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls
were but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power of
the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point
where we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it
can be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives
have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > joh
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >       __________________________________________________________________
> > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Kate,
You are the most right on voice to write here in a long time,
of course which is relative.  Thanks for posting.  Your insights
are concise and to the point.  The story is no longer revelent,
just that we are here. Those who hold to the past and from which
try to make truth only fry in butter that is already black.
See through the blackness and you see the light.  You realize light wins in the
end.  End of story, now just live.
Udayan

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@... <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
> Durga, Many people who have felt pain are incapable or unwilling to go beyond
their own darkness. It is a matter of fact. They are stuck in it and feel they
cannot dig their way out. I am suggesting that they CAN. If they sincerely seek
the truth, the highest truth, they will dig deeper than they have ever dug
before. Beyond any perceptions of a god who betrayed them, but deeper into their
own immortal soul and the being that created it. That can only be a good thing.
> Peace, sister
>
> kate
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@>
wrote:
> >
> > Kate, you say that
> >  <snip>"alot of these people who complain about the darkness have not done
one thing to create  light"<snip>
> > And you know this because......you are inside their heads?????    Do you
consider this kind of NEGATIVE JUDGMENT about your ex sisters and brothers to be
the "light" that you prefer?   I believe that EMPATHY and COMPASSION are not
only light inducing, but part of an integral journey.
> > <snip>"the answer to that can only come from diving within"<snip>, but what
is the point of diving within if we are going to deny the 'darkness' that we may
find in the 'shadow' self.  The "real issue, finding the Truth" for those who
were part of the SCC involves facing the fear and anger of Chinmoy's monumental
betrayal.  If you have no issues about this, well, good for you, shine on
sister! 
> > But DO NOT  presume that your "standing up for yourself" and "getting on
with things" is some fast track past other mere mortals to the Truth.  Others,
like Subala, are standing up for others while still getting on with things, and
from where I am sitting that PATH to the truth has more depth and authenticity
than judging others as weak would have.
> > Truth and Light are so totally subjective that to imagine you can know how
others journeys may compare to your own seems a rather useless preoccupation,
while having compassion for others pain is a consciousness expanding endeavor.
> > Just my opinion, Lynn
> >
> > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, kate.everson@ <kate.everson@> wrote:
> >
> > From: kate.everson@ <kate.everson@>
> > Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
> > To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:29 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jack, that was interesting.
> >
> > I like the part about finding the source of the pain and going into it and
trying to get some hidden meaning from it all. Very dark. Like a horror movie.
> >
> > I prefer the Light, as you know.
> >
> > I do understand pain and suffering and know you can't see the Light if you
only feel hate.
> >
> > Is what he taught true? you ask. The answer to that can only come from
diving within. The greatest seers told people to find their own truth within,
not from an outside source.
> >
> > Perhaps now is the time, after all the complaining and wailing and gnashing
of teeth about the woes of this earth, to come to terms with the real issue...
what do we really really want in life? If it is truth, then nothing will stop
you. If it is in gaining comfort from others, then that is a journey that just
goes on an on ad nauseum.
> >
> > Stand up for yourself! Shake off the dust from your feet, from your
perceived lost soul, and get on with it.
> >
> > Through adversity... to the stars. Find your own truth, and shine!
> >
> >
> >
> > kate
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "jkenny33@ ." <jack@>
wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Light. Darkness. Darkness. Light. OK, OK.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Kate is striving toward the Highest and knows that battling the darkness
means moving ever more intensely toward the divine. Well and good. No argument
there.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Subala is putting on the shoes of the children who have been hurt and is
expressing her compassion for them as a human being and a seeker. Well and good.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I'm willing to bet that many of the women who were violated â€" as well as
a great many women and men who now know about the sex master and his hidden lust
â€" are living with a human turmoil unlike any that they have ever encountered.
It's possible that they no longer know how to turn to the Light, or that they
don't want to, because the Light used to be associated with their guru, a
pervert, and they now question their own aspirations and the teachings they
absorbed.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Is what he taught true? Do we know that the words that came out of his
mouth were divinely correct, now that we have learned what came out of his
dhoti?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > What are you supposed to think when God pulls down your panties?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Kate has her path and we all have our paths, and perhaps mine involves
wrestling with doubt until I know what its true nature is. Perhaps another's is
to plumb the depths of pain to find its chimerical source. Perhaps finding the
fastest way out of the dance isn't best for all seekers, eh?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Give us our time to weep, to grieve, to cry out in anguish, to embrace the
sisters and the children and tell them that the soil will wash away, and hope
that they understand. Maybe some will not, and maybe the soil will not wash
away.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > We're aspiring humans. Give us time.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jack
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to seek
the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it most,
when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we should strive
even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a person has on earth, it
is up to them to invite God into the picture, to invoke their own highest deity,
to help them up. Sometimes the darkness comes just to bring us to that point.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > kate
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > Yes Kate,
> >
> > > > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> >
> > > > > But that's not the point.
> >
> > > > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all the
others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did they
not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme, sing Guru's
songs and devote themselves to him?
> >
> > > > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and they
have to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the Light?
Come on...
> >
> > > > > subala
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > Subala,
> >
> > > > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite
awhile. That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of
these people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the darkness.
> >
> > > > > > kate
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> >
> > > > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> >
> > > > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> >
> > > > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as
unbelievable and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost
sincerity by good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> >
> > > > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality is
another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the beautiful
deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the Highest in also
within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> >
> > > > > > > Subala
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one minute. I
can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth, the only
reason for my being here on earth.
> >
> > > > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue to
do so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger or
bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest is
your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with us.
> >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > kate
> >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"goodoldpoohbear" <goodoldpoohbear@ > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one minute
and just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name of
their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they believed
was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform sexual things
with another woman/girl in front of him.
> >
> > > > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the highest
in themselves?
> >
> > > > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do not
seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all have
discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in the
centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> >
> > > > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> >
> > > > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after they
leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's so easy
to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just CANNOT be
true.
> >
> > > > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and I
left 11 years ago.
> >
> > > > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's
teaching vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> >
> > > > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so many
years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say the
least).
> >
> > > > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring sentences,
but the same things can be found in other sources.
> >
> > > > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years
being a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching for
the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all feeling of
being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such as "my highest
beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul will punish me" or "I
need to transcend my earthly limitations" have vanished. Thank God.
> >
> > > > > > > > > subala
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
kate.everson@ <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend.
He/She is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is
in a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There can
only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com,
"journeyofhealing1" <journeyofhealing1@ > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a huge
shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well as
shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious with
him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and the
one that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd that
guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it to
such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I guess when
you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge issue for others,
it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it was for him).
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the number
of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend who can
give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend myself
and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that occured to 
me at the time.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls were
but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we been
asked?
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him
because I  believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his
own way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and reject
our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power of
the brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile forces
are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing to me that I
did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of time out of the
centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also dismiss all this as
'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered everything and it left no opening
whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point where
we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of abuse
there is.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic for
everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just doesnt work
like that when you have been controlled in this way for many years. At its
worst, mind control is something that you dont know has happened to you, so it
can seem impossible to get out of something that you dont know you are in. You
simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are the truth and thats that.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it can
be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us, knowing
only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his instruments to
use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that lives have been used
like this, only for his benefit.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > joh
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       __________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminspector"
<benjaminspector@...> wrote:
>
> Vivvvek,
>
> That Katie, is so much in denial, that she took swimming lessons. (LOL)
>
> How dare she defend Ghose and the ideals she has of Avatars and Absolute Truth
and reaching a state of being that frees us from ignorance. (LOL)
>
> But she's small potatoes. I hear theirs this guy Kangal, that posts from time
to time on this site. He was stupid enough to stay with Ghose for twenty years
and believe Ghose's crap about being the Avatar of the Era (LOL)
>
> This is hilarious. The guy, Kangal, left a good job in Canada, to move to New
York just because Ghose told him to (LOL).
>
> But Kangal is not a good ex disciple because he went around recruiting people
for Ghose when he was in the Center. (LOL)
>
> Godspeed, Kangal, you sucker
>
> >>


Sorry Kangal old chap, but for recruiting all those Chinmoy disciples we're
gonna have to slap Type 2 Diabetes on your next incarnation.

And forgetaboutit, the Supreme's soul has already come to us and told us that He
is NOT about to change His mind this time!

No way, Jose.

I mean Kangal.

Sorry bout that.

Gary
The Supreme's Representative on Earth


NNB
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, vivvvvek <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > "From where to where" as our Dharma-Duke would say. You started with light
and love and ended up with "monkeys in a cage" and the likes of it!
> > Kate's condensed life story is on the ex-pat site. She is also the
industrious founder of a facebook group called "Friends of Sri Chinmoy".
> >
> > Godspeed sister
> >
> > Vivek
> >
>

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, Lynn Hudson <lynnisfree2be@...>
wrote:
>
> Oh Anne, Thankyou!!!
> Hearing that fellow attack the women abused by Chinmoy, hearing him joke about
them and call them liars was way too much.
> Again, thankyou, Lynn
> >>



My take on Eamon's spouting of his misspelled ignorance was that with each post
he was revealing more and more of his near total asininity, and ANYBODY with
even an iota of real Intelligence could see what REAL disciples of Sri Chinmoy
are TRULY about, which is nothing less than Intolerance, Inhumanity, and real
Spiritual Blindness.

However, now that Anne has decided to pull the plug on that complete MORON, the
air somehow feels much CLEARER here.

Yeah, enough is enough with Eamon's idiocy and complete disregard for those who
have suffered by being pressured into having sex with a man they looked up to as
being not only a true spiritual master and their spiritual father, but a
charismatic con-man and  spiritual scam artist whom they sincerely considered to
be the very embodiment of God Himself.

Eamon's gone and good riddance, is all I can say.

What a jerk!

And mean-spirited too.

Oy Oy Oy.

Gary

NNB







> --- On Sat, 11/21/09, Anne <penny1300@...> wrote:
>
> From: Anne <penny1300@...>
> Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Note to Eamon
> To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 10:23 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Dear Eamon,
>
>
>
> Thanks for posting with us.  Regrettfully your posts will no longer be posted
here.  The reason you are now banned is because you are attacking women who were
abused by CKG.  Of course you are entitled to be in denial and express your
feelings but you have your own site for that.  This board is maintained to be a
safe place for those who have suffered abuses by Sri Chinmoy, not a soap box for
current disciples whether recognized or unrecognized by the Center.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Vivvvek,

That Katie, is so much in denial, that she took swimming lessons. (LOL)

How dare she defend Ghose and the ideals she has of Avatars and Absolute Truth
and reaching a state of being that frees us from ignorance. (LOL)

But she's small potatoes. I hear theirs this guy Kangal, that posts from time to
time on this site. He was stupid enough to stay with Ghose for twenty years and
believe Ghose's crap about being the Avatar of the Era (LOL)

This is hilarious. The guy, Kangal, left a good job in Canada, to move to New
York just because Ghose told him to (LOL).

But Kangal is not a good ex disciple because he went around recruiting people
for Ghose when he was in the Center. (LOL)

Godspeed, Kangal, you sucker



--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, vivvvvek <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> "From where to where" as our Dharma-Duke would say. You started with light and
love and ended up with "monkeys in a cage" and the likes of it!
> Kate's condensed life story is on the ex-pat site. She is also the industrious
founder of a facebook group called "Friends of Sri Chinmoy".
>
> Godspeed sister
>
> Vivek
>

Oh Anne, Thankyou!!!
Hearing that fellow attack the women abused by Chinmoy, hearing him joke about
them and call them liars was way too much.
Again, thankyou, Lynn


--- On Sat, 11/21/09, Anne <penny1300@...> wrote:

From: Anne <penny1300@...>
Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Note to Eamon
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 10:23 AM







 









       Dear Eamon,



Thanks for posting with us.  Regrettfully your posts will no longer be posted
here.  The reason you are now banned is because you are attacking women who were
abused by CKG.  Of course you are entitled to be in denial and express your
feelings but you have your own site for that.  This board is maintained to be a
safe place for those who have suffered abuses by Sri Chinmoy, not a soap box for
current disciples whether recognized or unrecognized by the Center.























       __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"From where to where" as our Dharma-Duke would say. You started with light and
love and ended up with "monkeys in a cage" and the likes of it!
Kate's condensed life story is on the ex-pat site. She is also the industrious
founder of a facebook group called "Friends of Sri Chinmoy".

Godspeed sister

Vivek

Well, Katie, for an "ex-" disciple, you sure sound like you're STILL pretty
plugged into Guru and the Centre as judging by your still apparent fascination
with the "Tranny" and meditating on it and "going deep within" via that (very
dubious, imo) meditational technique.

Why, therefore, pray tell, did you decide to leave the Centre?

Or did you, like SO many others, be given the divine boot for "impurity" or
disobedience or more than likely, for no apparent good reason at all?

Or are you simply a plant sent to spread the Good News of the World's Strongest
and Most Celibate Avatar of All Time, the failed and frustrated Sri Chinmoy
Kumar Ghose, by the likes of "PeaceCourier," Ranjana Devi, (the new Divine Mom?)
or even by the Ultimate Divine Henchman, Ashritaji the Pogomeister himself?

Do tell all, por favor.

Only this time, please be REAL for once.

"Try my child, try." Sri Chinmoy (official).

Gary

Haha!  YOU'RE the Joke, kiddo, not anybody else!

You and your boy, Eamonji the "expatriate" disciple, hahaha.

NNB

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@... <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
> I am laughing at all the craziness that goes on in here! Do you people know
how hilarious you are? Like a bunch of monkeys in a cage!
> One suggestion: Get out of here and meditate. Put up the transcendental, if
you still have it, and find your truth. Don't let your mind interfere. Don't let
the noise drown out the absolute stillness and peace that can be found in
delving deep within.
> There is hope. There is Light. There is truth. Go for it!
>
> -kate
>

Ben, I feel very sorry for those who have lost their faith in the divine because
of lies and misperceptions about a spiritual master. These people will probably
need years of therapy... or they can wake up and smell reality.
The answer, my friend, is closer than your nose. Breathe in and feel the truth
for yourself. Don't take anybody else's word for it, for or against, high or
low. It is your own reality, your own life that is hanging in the balance. Do it
for yourself.

peace,
kate

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "Benjamin Spector"
<benjamin.spector@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Subala and Divine Kate,
>
>
>
> Some say there are two minds. This is not true.  There are many more than
> that.
>
>
>
> The HIGHEST MIND is closest to the Light, the Source, the Force etc.etc.
>
> The LOWEST MIND is closest to the Earth, Mother Nature, the Creative part of
> our existence
>
> The RIGHT MIND is closest to the Truth within us and around us in the
> Infinite, Eternal etc.
>
> The LEFT MIND is the closest to our Heart and the love between all
> creatures, big and small, long and short etc etc.
>
> I can go on and on with the North Mind, South Mind, East and West Mind etc.
> (my favorite is the NORTH, NORTHEAST MIND)
>
>
>
> Those who know me are LAUGHING at me (or hurling their food) rather than
> being impressed by my Spiritual Insight
>
>
>
> But most, if not all the "spiritual" rhetoric out there by experts and
> "enlightened" are just circular arguments with nothing behind them.
>
> Behind the curtains is just a little bald man with an Indian accent who
> wants to impress young girls so he can be laid.
>
>
>
> I know there are lots of injustices in this world and a many evil, scary
> people.
>
> We want to having faith that there is some kind of absolute truth out there.
>
> We want to believe we can attach ourselves to some rainbow to stay above all
> the insanity around us.
>
> If we don't have this idealized fantasy of an ABSOLUTE, ALL KNOWING FATHER
> FIGURE who loves us and will save us from the gross uncaring world -
>
> We feel we have no reason to live.
>
>
>
> Another approach is to SEE what the world is and not stay in this BUBBLE of
> idealism.
>
> Rather than live in denial, let's use our discrimination and see the world
> AS IT IS.
>
> If we accept the world as it is - accept reality - only then can we hope to
> change it.
>
> It's very liberating to accept ourselves - both the parts we like and those
> we don't like. Its only with acceptance that we can really work to change
> our nature.
>
> It's also great to take our mentors, throw them off the pedestal we placed
> them on, and see that they are human, with human desires, just like us.
>
>
>
> I am trying hard to FORGIVE Ghose for his lies, deception etc. which I
> bought for 20 years.
>
> Every new testimonial I read, this anger in me comes up again and I want to
> strangle him with my own hands.
>
> But that's not the point.
>
>
>
> If we prejudice our ability to discriminate, by wanting to see ONLY the
> HIGHEST in our mentors, we will stay in neverland, and never grow up.
>
> Enough preaching, but let's put down the rose colored glasses for once.
>
>
>
> Kate,
>
>
>
> How MANY good people do you need to tell you the emperor has no  clothes,
> before you also accept that the emperor has no clothes.
>
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> goodoldpoohbear
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:11 AM
> To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high
>
> Now come on, Kate.
> Don't pretend you don't understand what we are talking about HERE and NOW.
> HERE and NOW we are talking about the real stories told by Sundari,
> Suchatula and Bihagee, just to name the latest ones (for new comers, please
> visit Yogaloy's blog, http://abodeofyoga.blogspot.com).
>
> The question is: how do you reconcile your faith in your (our former) guru
> Sri Chinmoy who has always advocated Purity, and who has scolded time and
> again his disciples because they didn't have enough purity, and the FACTS
> that the sincere stories of these women have revealed?
>
> Please try to be down to earth for a minute.
> When you go to the supermarket, you put real cheese in your basket, right?
> Not divine light!
> OK I guess you will tell me that you invoke your highest deity when you buy
> cheese and that a piece of goat cheese IS a manifestation of divine Light
> (which it is, indeed).
> So I am asking you again: how DO YOU DEAL with what the stories SINCERELY
> told by those disciples (names above) reveal?????
>
> subala
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
> Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to
> seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
> most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we
> should strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a
> person has on earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to
> invoke their own highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness
> comes just to bring us to that point.
> >
> > kate
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "goodoldpoohbear"
> <goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes Kate,
> > > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > > But that's not the point.
> > > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all the
> others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
> names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did
> they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme,
> sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?
> > > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and they have
> to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the Light?
> Come on...
> > > subala
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subala,
> > > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite awhile.
> That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of these
> people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
> light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
> darkness.
> > > > kate
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "goodoldpoohbear"
> <goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> > > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as unbelievable
> and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost sincerity by
> good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality is
> another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
> beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
> Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > > > Subala
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one minute. I
> can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth, the
> only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue to do
> so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger or
> bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
> is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin
> with us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "goodoldpoohbear"
> <goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one minute and
> just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name of
> their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they
> believed was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform
> sexual things with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the highest in
> themselves?
> > > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do not
> seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
> have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in
> the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
> ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
> getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
> mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after
> they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's
> so easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just
> CANNOT be true.
> > > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and I left
> 11 years ago.
> > > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's teaching
> vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so many
> years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
> the least).
> > > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring sentences, but
> the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years being
> a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
> fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching
> for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
> feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such
> as "my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul
> will punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have
> vanished. Thank God.
> > > > > > > subala
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend. He/She
> is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is in
> a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
> surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There
> can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "journeyofhealing1"
> <journeyofhealing1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a huge
> shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well as
> shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
> with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and the one
> that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd that
> guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it
> to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I
> guess when you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge
> issue for others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it
> was for him).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the number
> of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend who
> can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend myself
> and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that occured
> to me at the time.
> > > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls were
> but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
> been asked?
> > > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him because
> I believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his own
> way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
> imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and
> reject our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power of the
> brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
> under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile
> forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing
> to me that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of
> time out of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also
> dismiss all this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered
> everything and it left no opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point where
> we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
> abuse there is.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
> different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic
> for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just
> doesnt work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many
> years. At its worst, mind control is something that you dont know has
> happened to you, so it can seem impossible to get out of something that you
> dont know you are in. You simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are
> the truth and thats that.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it can
> be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
> knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
> instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that
> lives have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > > > > > > > joh
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dear Eamon,

Thanks for posting with us.  Regrettfully your posts will no longer be posted
here.  The reason you are now banned is because you are attacking women who were
abused by CKG.  Of course you are entitled to be in denial and express your
feelings but you have your own site for that.  This board is maintained to be a
safe place for those who have suffered abuses by Sri Chinmoy, not a soap box for
current disciples whether recognized or unrecognized by the Center.

Hi Subala and Divine Kate,



Some say there are two minds. This is not true.  There are many more than
that.



The HIGHEST MIND is closest to the Light, the Source, the Force etc.etc.

The LOWEST MIND is closest to the Earth, Mother Nature, the Creative part of
our existence

The RIGHT MIND is closest to the Truth within us and around us in the
Infinite, Eternal etc.

The LEFT MIND is the closest to our Heart and the love between all
creatures, big and small, long and short etc etc.

I can go on and on with the North Mind, South Mind, East and West Mind etc.
(my favorite is the NORTH, NORTHEAST MIND)



Those who know me are LAUGHING at me (or hurling their food) rather than
being impressed by my Spiritual Insight



But most, if not all the "spiritual" rhetoric out there by experts and
"enlightened" are just circular arguments with nothing behind them.

Behind the curtains is just a little bald man with an Indian accent who
wants to impress young girls so he can be laid.



I know there are lots of injustices in this world and a many evil, scary
people.

We want to having faith that there is some kind of absolute truth out there.

We want to believe we can attach ourselves to some rainbow to stay above all
the insanity around us.

If we don't have this idealized fantasy of an ABSOLUTE, ALL KNOWING FATHER
FIGURE who loves us and will save us from the gross uncaring world -

We feel we have no reason to live.



Another approach is to SEE what the world is and not stay in this BUBBLE of
idealism.

Rather than live in denial, let's use our discrimination and see the world
AS IT IS.

If we accept the world as it is - accept reality - only then can we hope to
change it.

It's very liberating to accept ourselves - both the parts we like and those
we don't like. Its only with acceptance that we can really work to change
our nature.

It's also great to take our mentors, throw them off the pedestal we placed
them on, and see that they are human, with human desires, just like us.



I am trying hard to FORGIVE Ghose for his lies, deception etc. which I
bought for 20 years.

Every new testimonial I read, this anger in me comes up again and I want to
strangle him with my own hands.

But that's not the point.



If we prejudice our ability to discriminate, by wanting to see ONLY the
HIGHEST in our mentors, we will stay in neverland, and never grow up.

Enough preaching, but let's put down the rose colored glasses for once.



Kate,



How MANY good people do you need to tell you the emperor has no  clothes,
before you also accept that the emperor has no clothes.



Ben





















From: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
goodoldpoohbear
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:11 AM
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: the highest and the not so high

Now come on, Kate.
Don't pretend you don't understand what we are talking about HERE and NOW.
HERE and NOW we are talking about the real stories told by Sundari,
Suchatula and Bihagee, just to name the latest ones (for new comers, please
visit Yogaloy's blog, http://abodeofyoga.blogspot.com).

The question is: how do you reconcile your faith in your (our former) guru
Sri Chinmoy who has always advocated Purity, and who has scolded time and
again his disciples because they didn't have enough purity, and the FACTS
that the sincere stories of these women have revealed?

Please try to be down to earth for a minute.
When you go to the supermarket, you put real cheese in your basket, right?
Not divine light!
OK I guess you will tell me that you invoke your highest deity when you buy
cheese and that a piece of goat cheese IS a manifestation of divine Light
(which it is, indeed).
So I am asking you again: how DO YOU DEAL with what the stories SINCERELY
told by those disciples (names above) reveal?????

subala

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@...
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Subala, you say that seeking the Light is not the point. I disagree.
Seeking the Light IS the only point to our existence. Sure it is easy to
seek the Light when we are standing in the midst of it. But when we need it
most, when we feel the darkness within ourselves, is it not then that we
should strive even hardest for the Light? No matter what experiences a
person has on earth, it is up to them to invite God into the picture, to
invoke their own highest deity, to help them up. Sometimes the darkness
comes just to bring us to that point.
>
> kate
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes Kate,
> > naturally we have to seek for the Light. I agree with you.
> > But that's not the point.
> > Sundari, Bihagee, Suchatula, Sevika, Phulela, Rupavati, and all the
others who have been or are still involved in this shocking thing (and whose
names many people know but keep secret because they have not come out), did
they not seek the Light? Did they not light candles, pray to the Supreme,
sing Guru's songs and devote themselves to him?
> > And now that those who did come out are out of the centre, and they have
to reconstruct their shattered lives, have they become against the Light?
Come on...
> > subala
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Subala,
> > > There will always be darkness in the world, at least for quite awhile.
That should not prevent us from seeing the Light. I find that a lot of these
people who complain about the darkness have not done one thing to create
light, not lit one candle, not changed anything except added to the
darkness.
> > > kate
> > >
> > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kate, naturally the Highest is who we all are.
> > > > I don't mean we should discard it even for one minute.
> > > > I just mean that the Highest should not prevent us from seeing
> > > > the...not so high, or let us say some truths which, as unbelievable
and disturbing they may be, still are truths, told with utmost sincerity by
good people (who also love the Highest, by the way).
> > > > Our love for the Highest is one thing, and sometimes reality is
another thing. Isn't it? The sun are the stars are is shining in the
beautiful deep infinite sky, but here on earth, some people, although the
Highest in also within them, behave in strange or ugly or nasty ways.
> > > > Subala
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Subala, you ask me to leave the Highest aside for one minute. I
can never do that. The Highest is who I am, the Highest is the Truth, the
only reason for my being here on earth.
> > > > > I praise the Highest every day of my life, and will continue to do
so unless the Will of the Highest says otherwise. My Highest has no anger or
bitterness towards anyone. My Highest loves all unconditionally. My Highest
is your Highest. We are one. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin
with us.
> > > > >
> > > > > kate
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kate, why don't you leave "the Highest" aside for one minute and
just consider what has happened to all these girls/women: in the name of
their faith, devotion, obedience to their spiritual master whom they
believed was God incarnate, they had to either have sex with him or perform
sexual things with another woman/girl in front of him.
> > > > > > Were they having these sexual relationships with the highest in
themselves?
> > > > > > And to come back to your previous question, how come we do not
seem to acknowledge here all the good we received from Sri Chinmoy, we all
have discussed that before, and we all have happy memories from our time in
the centre. We all can remember our various spiritual experiences, light,
ispiration, happiness, gratitude, you name it.
> > > > > > But the weight of what we now know about the dark side is
getting more and more unbearably heavy.
> > > > > > Maybe you are still a disciple, so it's understandable you
mainly see the positive side. Many people keep the positive side even after
they leave the centre, and they don't bother trying to know the truth. It's
so easy to dismiss the testimonies of these girls/women by saying they just
CANNOT be true.
> > > > > > I have been a (relatively good) disciple for 22 years and I left
11 years ago.
> > > > > > I cant tell you that the whole content of Sri Chinmoy's teaching
vanished very quickly for me, like a bubble that bursts.
> > > > > > Reading his poetry (which I faithfully translated for so many
years), I suddenly found most of it meaningless (wordy and flowery, to say
the least).
> > > > > > Naturally he did said or write lots of inspiring sentences, but
the same things can be found in other sources.
> > > > > > So now when asked what I have retained from these 22 years being
a disciple, my answer is: I have gained a feeling of brotherhood with my
fellow human beings, and I keep being a spiritual seeker (I mean searching
for the deep meaning of life). But I have given up all certitudes, all
feeling of being "chosen", or superior to "ordinary people". Concepts such
as "my highest beloved Supreme is pleased/displeased with me" or "my soul
will punish me" or "I need to transcend my earthly limitations" have
vanished. Thank God.
> > > > > > subala
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , kate.everson@
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the true spiritual sense, God is the only boyfriend. He/She
is also our mother, father, lover, brother, sister, best friend. This is in
a state of total oneness and surrender to the highest. This is not a
surrender to another human being, no matter what they call themselves. There
can only be one guru and that is the highest power within yourself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Sri_Chinmoy_Information%40yahoogroups.com> , "journeyofhealing1"
<journeyofhealing1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi everyone
> > > > > > > > Like a lot of us, the latest revelations have been a huge
shock for me and it is taking time to absorb and assimilate them. As well as
shock and unease, my main reaction has been anger, I just feel so furious
with him for exploiting the girls in this way.
> > > > > > > > The issue of purity and sex was a big one for me and the one
that I got kicked out of the centre for. It is just so crazy and absurd that
guru spent so much time haranging us for lack of purity and insisting on it
to such a degree whilst he was conducting this obviously impure abuse. I
guess when you come to think about it, if you make something such a huge
issue for others, it probably is an issue for yourself (as we now know it
was for him).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As one of the children singers, I cant remember the number
of talks he would give us about how 'the Supreme is the only boyfriend who
can give you joy'. I guess he meant himself.
> > > > > > > > I am not so keen on the idea of God as a boyfriend myself
and it is a strange way to put it. But that was not something that occured
to me at the time.
> > > > > > > > Fortunately I was not put in the position these girls were
but I wonder how many of us would have obeyed his requests for sex had we
been asked?
> > > > > > > > I believe that at the time, I would have obeyed him because
I believed anything he said, including that he was purifying us in his own
way. I think when we were under the powerful mind control system that he
imposed on us, it was highly likely we would believe anything he said and
reject our own ideas as being false. Only he was right.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I feel it is important not to underestimate the power of the
brainwashing system/mind control that we were under and many are still
under. I see that disciples who believe this is all lies from the hostile
forces are just as I was and I can completely understand it. It is amazing
to me that I did somehow start to see it differently, over a long period of
time out of the centre. If I was in the centre now, I am sure I would also
dismiss all this as 'hostiles'. The system he put in place covered
everything and it left no opening whatsoever for new thought to come in.
> > > > > > > > I feel this sort of abuse of our minds, to the point where
we really dont have control of our own mind is one of the worst forms of
abuse there is.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of course we are all so different and were affected in
different ways and to different extents but for me it can be too simplistic
for everyone to just start to think for themselves or be free, it just
doesnt work like that when you have been controlled in this way for many
years. At its worst, mind control is something that you dont know has
happened to you, so it can seem impossible to get out of something that you
dont know you are in. You simply just believe that the lies chinmoy said are
the truth and thats that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I wonder how far the control can go, to what limits it can
be pushed and how many of us would have also allowed him to abuse us,
knowing only that he is god, he is right about everything and we are his
instruments to use in his own way. It is just so horrific and so sad that
lives have been used like this, only for his benefit.
> > > > > > > > joh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, Kate, so please use your Higher Mind to read this excerpt from the post by
Nirbachita recounting Suchatula's experience, and kindly tell us what your
Higher Mind has to say about it.

"A short time later, she was summoned to guru's hotel room. He asked her what
she thought about him. She told him she saw him as her father and saw him as her
"Supreme." He told her to embrace him and for her to touch his feet, then touch
her head to his feet. He then asked her how many years she had been on "the
path." She said twenty. He said because she had been on the path for twenty
years, the Supreme now wanted her to surrender and that the Supreme had very
special love for her, and that this "opportunity" the Supreme did not give to
everyone.

Guru told her that he wanted her to have sex with another women but that it was
not a "lesbian thing." At this point she was utterly freaked out, shocked and
disappointed in guru. Shaking inside she agreed to try to "surrender."

Guru called another women to his room and told them both to undress and embrace
each other. The woman proceeded to tell her what guru liked to see, suggesting
that there was interest on guru's part in what was happening, but she said she
didn't notice guru being excited in any way. When she looked over at him she
said he seemed to be concentrating with his eyes squinted. Guru asked her if she
was getting joy, and she told him no, that "this is not working for me."
Finally guru told them to get dressed and wash their hands and told the other
woman to leave."


subala



--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@... <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
>
> There is more than one mind. There is the lower mind, and the higher Mind. Use
the one that tells you the absolute Truth.
>
> kate
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is pretty crazy, you are right, Kate.
> >
> > OK. Put up the transcendental and DON'T USE YOUR MIND.
> > Silence your DISCRIMINATION. Stop THINKING, stop WONDERING how all this has
happened. Do not even try to UNDERSTAND.
> > In other words, as you say, "there is truth" but we shouldn't try and find
it in an objective way.
> > There is hope, but not any hope for reality, however bitter it may be.
> >
> > To end this post, I will quote Albert Camus (very great French writer who
received the Nobel Price for Litterature in 1957):
> >
> > "Mal nommer les choses, c'est ajouter au malheur du monde":
> > "Failing to put a name on things means adding to the adversity of the
world".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > I am laughing at all the craziness that goes on in here! Do you people
know how hilarious you are? Like a bunch of monkeys in a cage!
> > > One suggestion: Get out of here and meditate. Put up the transcendental,
if you still have it, and find your truth. Don't let your mind interfere. Don't
let the noise drown out the absolute stillness and peace that can be found in
delving deep within.
> > > There is hope. There is Light. There is truth. Go for it!
> > >
> > > -kate
> > >
> >
>

There is more than one mind. There is the lower mind, and the higher Mind. Use
the one that tells you the absolute Truth.

kate
--- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, "goodoldpoohbear"
<goodoldpoohbear@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> This is pretty crazy, you are right, Kate.
>
> OK. Put up the transcendental and DON'T USE YOUR MIND.
> Silence your DISCRIMINATION. Stop THINKING, stop WONDERING how all this has
happened. Do not even try to UNDERSTAND.
> In other words, as you say, "there is truth" but we shouldn't try and find it
in an objective way.
> There is hope, but not any hope for reality, however bitter it may be.
>
> To end this post, I will quote Albert Camus (very great French writer who
received the Nobel Price for Litterature in 1957):
>
> "Mal nommer les choses, c'est ajouter au malheur du monde":
> "Failing to put a name on things means adding to the adversity of the world".
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com, kate.everson@ <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> > I am laughing at all the craziness that goes on in here! Do you people know
how hilarious you are? Like a bunch of monkeys in a cage!
> > One suggestion: Get out of here and meditate. Put up the transcendental, if
you still have it, and find your truth. Don't let your mind interfere. Don't let
the noise drown out the absolute stillness and peace that can be found in
delving deep within.
> > There is hope. There is Light. There is truth. Go for it!
> >
> > -kate
> >
>

Eamon
Sundari and Bihagee look like angels so full of light, like devas.  Chinmoy
looks like an asura.  Don't you know Eamon that both devas and asuras meditate,
do tapas, chanting mantras, etc.  The devas do it to become closer to God. 
The asuras do it to attain control over the world.  They envy God and want to
become even greater then God.
 
"The Asuras are the forces of matter and the underworld. They manipulate people
through lower vital urges of power, sex, money and drugs. They can use
commercial methods, like advertisement, which is a kind of mind control, or
political propaganda to stir up passions and desires. However, they can take on
a religious front in order to further their aims. They will even use occult
forces or yogic methods once they have discovered their usefulness.
They will stop short at nothing in the pursuit of power, which is their prime
motivation. A number of religious groups, therefore, are influenced, if not
dominated by Asuric tendencies. These are not simply strange cults of crime and
perversion, which are but the most extreme such manifestations. They include
religious beliefs that aim at political control, which are exclusive,
intolerant, and aggressive.
Such groups are often successful for this very reason. They know no real higher
values and so can employ the religious urge of people, which encourages great
sacrifice, to further their outer aim of domination. They can project a
religious fervor to the basic human urges for power, position and property "-
David Frawley 
 

"The Asura has no soul, no psychic being which has to evolve to a higher state;
he has only an ego and usually a very powerful ego; he has a mind, sometimes
even a highly intellectualised mind; but the basis of his thinking and feeling
is vital and not mental, at the service of his desire and not of truth. " 
-Sri Aurobindo
 

"Asuras are hyper-competitive and paranoid. They are driven by a desire to beat
their competition, and everyone is competition. They have power and resources
and sometimes accomplish good things with them. But, always, their first
priority is getting to the top."
                                      -Bud\
dhist view on Asuras by Barbara O'Brien
 
So Eamon be very careful who you choose to follow.  I would  venture to say
that if a person isn't moved to tears by the sad stories that have been revealed
by the girls and women who gave their all to the path and the man who said he
was God, then perhaps he doesn't have a heart,  maybe only an
Ego...                

--- On Sat, 11/21/09, goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...> wrote:


From: goodoldpoohbear <goodoldpoohbear@...>
Subject: [Sri_Chinmoy_Information] Re: Photo,s photo,s photo,s....
To: Sri_Chinmoy_Information@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 5:19 AM


 



Eamon,
YOU are THE liar (not lier) here. How dare you write such a thing?
I feel so angry against your hypocrisy!
The pictures of Sundari and Bihagee are wonderful!
Sundari is full of light: "a sinister glint in her eyes"!!! Ha, ha, your own
eyes need some fixing I'm afraid. I hope you can find good eye doctors in Bali.
And Bihagee has a lot of joy and purity.
I bet their faces have much more sadness now.
And, if I may say, I have seen many pictures of Chinmoy that were NOT AT ALL
full of light and high consciousness.

SHAME ON YOU.

--- In Sri_Chinmoy_ Information@ yahoogroups. com, "Eamon,s an indi ckger"
<srichinmoyindepend ant27@... > wrote:
>
>
> Try this test.....put the photo of Bihagee, and Sundari(abode of
> yoga)......then put up a picture of Guru next to them.......and ask ur
> conscionce who is the lier and who is telling the
> truth....... ......Sundari has such a sinister glint in her eyes....and
> as for Bihagee..... .the light are on but no ones home.
>
> Eamon
>
> Change your mind
>
> If you want to sit at God's Feet.
>
> Don't change your heart
>
> If you want to live inside God's Heart......ckg.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>











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