-----Original Message-----
From: Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dreama Childe
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:45 PM
To: Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SD] Re: Hello all

I understand what your saying, but from a flip-side. I was raised in a
very controlled faith based manner. Were it not for the early exposures
in my formative years to other cultures/beliefs, I might never have
questioned any of it, or might have taken much longer in my life to do
it. You know how you've talked before about whether things "resonated"
with you or not? That's how it began with me (the questioning of my
teachings). Certain things just didn't resonate. I could not understand
many of the people I was raised with, sitting around saying that things
like Hurricane Katrina, for instance, were the wrath of God and his
punnishment for something they did wrong. Every time I hear something
like that, it instantly makes my stomach turn or something worse lol. I
wonder what on earth so many people could have done to warrant such a
thing from any God? I often want to point out to them that there are
lot's of their Christians/Pagans/other religions too, suffering as well
as non...and that I see most of the people living the best they know how
and struggling to survive much like they are so are they next? Things
happen in this world to all people, good things and bad, good people and
bad. Often there are no explanations to be found. So how could it be
logical that such a terrible thing could harm so many for such a reason?
We have frequent flooding, tornadoes every year, and an occasional quake
from time to time (small ones). Does that mean all of us in this area
are being punished for something we do wrong? I wonder? Just one of the
many types of dogma that never set well with me. The faith itself
(excluding the dogma) actually gives me hope a great deal of times. How
wonderful would it be if every one would abide by rules such as the ten
comandments? Thou shalt not kill...steal...commit adultry... and so on.
Or how about, "An it harm none..."? If every one really thought about
what they were going to do before they did it? The possibiltities! How
horrible to believe that one belief is better or worse than another.
I've found these types of things across many religions that I've
studied. There seems to be dogma of some kind, riddled through out many
of them. With all of this exposure and being raised constantly told that
my family's beliefs were the ones that were right, I probably shouldn't
even question if there is a God, what God looks like, or does or any
such...But I have. I have even taken the approach that I've learned from
Athiest that I've known. The one of reason. Those I have known have
always looked for a logical more worldy reason for something happening,
and I have to say, many times they find their answers. Still, I can't
seem to see myself (nor do I want to) not believing that God (in some
form at least) does indeed exist or that angels do or anything else that
gives me hope or comfort or somehow makes my world seem a little
brighter. Much of that is definetly based on the fact that I was raised
to believe it, but what made me kick in to "logic vs illogic" mode? I
had no proof either way other than that which I was open to learning
when exposed to. That exposure did have a hand in molding my own
personal beliefs. I can't dispute that. Thankfully, it has been a very
diverse exposure which also allowed me to learn and to understand, and
be more respectful of all belief systems, even if I couldn't completely
agree with them. lol I don't even agree with my own all of the time lol.
It's easy for me to give my "logical" side permission to believe my own
experiences, probably because of my faith based upbringing, but
sometimes it does become an inner battle. When "the smoke clears" I
still have to choose whether to believe or not. I can't prove anything
to anyone except myself and I'm generally not one to try to convince
someone else of my beliefs. Share with others, yes, try to convince
them? No. I like the fact that I live in a life where I can believe what
I choose and so can everyone else. So I don't bark when family or
friends express their views that I dissagree with these days. I only
bark when they try to shove them down my own throat lol. They often feel
that because I refuse to follow what they tell me to, that I must be
totally against it then. Not true. Now and then I actually agree with
them and it makes them happy though lol. I'm not any one religion,
faith, or system of beliefs/rituals however. I'm a blend of what feels
right to me from what I've learned in my own life. I fully feel that I
can't tell others what the right path is for them and it's up to me to
choose my own and no one else. That doesn't mean that I won't learn
about or accept other things if it feels right for me.
The concept of aliens you present here is something both sides of me can
easily accept. Both "sides" of me fully believe that anything is
possible. The logical side will look for the probability and sit on the
edge of the seat waiting for that real "missing link" to show itself.
The "other side" is twisted about it lol because even science doesn't
have all the answers and we don't know if science ever will. We just
keep waiting to see.
Ahh, the power of the mind, once again! My logical mind works to rein my
runaway brain in daily, but I feel that with out my spiritual side, I
just would not feel whole. It's twisted for me to think the ways that I
do, but it's certianly an intriguing path to walk!
Based on human curiosity and the very reasons that you state in the last
paragraph, I feel that we will (as a society) always be looking for
answers to such things.

Blessings T.

--- In Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com, "Skye Thomas" <Skye@...>
wrote:
>
> I don't think we know that God is real and/or that he created us. I
think
> that if someone is taught that from the cradle, then they assume it is
so.
> But as someone who was raised by an atheist and having to find my own
path
> towards spirituality... I can say that without the childhood
teachings...
> you are not able to "know" that God exists anymore than you can "know"
that
> ghosts, angels, spirit guides, fairies, etc. exist. It's all the
same,
> gods, goddesses, and the others when you first come to it as an adult.
It
> is all mythology and fascinating, but completely improvable.
>
> That's why I would love scientific proof of any and all of it. So
that I
> can then logically give myself permission to believe in entities that
I
> actually cannot convince myself are real. I can talk to them, adore
them,
> study them, write about my experiences in the great pursuit of them,
but I
> cannot declare them real.
>
> I personally, find it easier to believe that aliens came here from
other
> planets and cross bred their DNA with the apes that were here in some
kind
> of "creation experiment". That is why there is a missing link and why
> humanity is both wild and barbaric (despite centuries of advanced
> civilization) and why we are also intellectual and creative. Does
that make
> what I believe real? No, but of all the theories I have heard, that
one is
> easiest for my logical brain to accept.
>
> I recently spent some time reading about feral children and it further
added
> to the concept that we are barely a crisis away from being cavemen
again.
> We are not so far from wild animals as we like to believe. Ask any
innocent
> civilian that has been brutally tortured by enemy soldiers just how
"humane"
> humanity really is. I think we as a species still hold the ape's
anger
> management issues.
>
> Now I also believe that the body is just a vessel and that we are a
"spirit"
> trapped inside of these "containers". I have nothing whatsoever to
prove
> it, but it "feels" right to me. But I won't declare it a fact either.
So
> please don't think that I'm saying, everyone's spiritual beliefs are
b.s.
> I'm just explaining the science versus faith aspects from the
viewpoint of a
> non-faith childhood.
>
> Without a religious upbringing, the whole thing becomes science-based
rather
> than faith-based. Personal experiences are awesome, but they are not
proof.
> This is because the human mind has been proven to be a) fantastically
> creative and adept at fooling itself and b) prone to mental health
issues.
> How many people have to testify that they have seen alien spacecraft
with
> their own eyes... before we have proof that aliens exist? Human
testimony
> alone can never be deemed proof of anything, because we are
infiltrated with
> idiots, liars, and con-artists.
>
> take care
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Maria
Bernardo
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:12 AM
> To: Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [SD] Re: Hello all
>
>
>
>
>
> That's a very good question...I agree with you Skye, that's
what I
> noticed too...or the other way around, perhaps because we all know
that God
> created us so we don't have to question His existence even we don't
see
> him...
>
> --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Skye Thomas Skye@... wrote:
>
>
> From: Skye Thomas Skye@...
> Subject: RE: [SD] Re: Hello all
> To: Spiritual-Development@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 1:23 AM
>
>
>
> I agree and since a young age have wished there was a heck
of a
> lot more scientific data regarding the entire spectrum of paranormal
and
> supernatural.
>
> Another question posed for philosophical debate...
>
> Why does mankind require proof of an afterlife (ghosts,
spirits,
> "the other side", etc), but we do not need proof of a "god"?
>
> take care,
> Skye
>
> Tomorrow's Edge
> ...inspiring leaps of faith
> www.TomorrowsEdge. net
>
> Books, articles, newsletters,
> life coaching, & horoscopes.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Spiritual-
> Development@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Brisksail
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 4:49 AM
> To: Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [SD] Re: Hello all
>
>
> Humanity has been trying to prove the existence of
an
> afterlife for almost as long as mankind evolved. In more recent times
the
> first ghost hunter, Harry Price, began doing more than using pyschics
to
> suggest the possibility. He began using equipment and there have been
a
> sleu of followers ever since. With technology rapidly developing the
way it
> has it has allowed just everyday folk to get out there to try to find
more
> evidence.At no time in history have there been as many investigative
teams
> searching or such a widely accepting society, in the possibility of
the
> spirit world. Yet, as you say, no matter what you bring forth for
society to
> view unless they have it happen to them personally, they will never
beleive.
> The great thing about this? More and more people ARE having things
happening
> to them and this is exciting. Is it nothing more than the masses being
open
> to suggestion?
> It remains to be seen. We have talked about for
years on
> this site all of these possibilities being actualities. I have always
been
> thankful for SD allowing me to explore my world further without the
guilt or
> insecurity of being looked upon as nutso. Time will tell. Would love
to hear
> that you did pick up something on your recorder in your microwave.
That
> would be sooooo coooool.
>
> Blessings,
> Brisksail
>
> View my blogsite at:
>
>
>
> http://blog. 360.yahoo. com/blog- 7.uyGhs2brVFxEOw
> SggW1EzLXHE- ;_ylt=AqUBTJO33S ZQ1TdtKe3j4vSsAO J3?cq=1
>
> --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Dreama Childe <dreamlight10@
> yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dreama Childe <dreamlight10@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [SD] Re: Hello all
> To: Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:02 AM
>
>
> Those are very good questions, and valid for the
sake of
> investigation.
> I would only be assuming that we really don't know
if it
> truly is coming
> from us or not. When all the chips fall and the
> "evidence" is in,
> contrary or otherwise, the only real thing left to
do,
> seems to
> be...decide if we want to believe or not.
> ...But do you ever wonder if perhaps, the universe
just
> gives us puzzles
> like these to figure out, then when we seem to
have an
> answer, it
> develops a new puzzle, just for fun...?lol Think
of
> it...Humans are
> probably the most curious creatures on the planet.
A dog
> attacks a snake
> for instance, and it attacks back. The dog is
lucky
> enough to live, but
> it doesn't care to mess with a snake again. It may
even
> warn it's
> "pack". A human gets bitten by a snake and we have
to
> know what kind,
> how venomous, where it was at the time of the
bite, and
> on and on. We
> will even study the animal to see what more, if
> anything, we can learn
> from it, instead of taking the passive stance of
leaving
> it alone. Only
> the one bitten might try to do that in most cases
lol. A
> bit off the
> beaten path, for a thought, but you get the idea.
It's
> as if we ask for
> it...so, that gives some credibility to those
questions
> you pose...just
> in a different sense, maybe.
> I've said it before, and I'm not alone...If we
really
> knew the true
> power of our brains...WOW. .. That still doesn't
(at
> this point in time)
> leave out the possibilty of spirits being external
> entities that we do
> not control, though. I don't think that enough
solid
> evidence will ever
> be found to confirm or contradict with such
things,
> partly because, some
> will always want to believe. I rather like having
> something to believe
> in, myself...even if I'm not so sure what it is.
Now
> that sounds very
> "Human", doesn't it?lol
>
> Blessings T.
>
> --- In Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com,
"Skye
> Thomas" Skye@
> wrote:
> >
> > The two questions posed are excellent
questions... and
> I find they
> bring up
> > another question, assuming they find evidence
that
> spirits can imprint
> the
> > "evidence" onto electronic items without them
even
> being turned on,
> etc...
> >
> > How do we know it is a spirit encoding the
message
> onto the various
> > electronic devices and not us with our own
minds?
> ...like a
> telekinesis and
> > poltergeist combination type thing.
> >
> > Like Shiva blowing light bulbs. ;)
> >
> > The theory might be... maybe we want spirits to
be
> real so much that
> we
> > create electronic evidence subconsciously.
> >
> >
> >
> > On a completely different subject... I watched
this
> special on PBS
> tonight
> > about music and the brain... awesome! It should
be
> running on Nova
> over the
> > next few days, so I highly recommend it to
anyone
> interested.
> >
> > take care,
> > Skye
> >
> > Tomorrow's Edge
> > ...inspiring leaps of faith
> > www.TomorrowsEdge. net
> >
> > Books, articles, newsletters,
> > life coaching, & horoscopes.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups.
com]On
> Behalf Of Brisksail
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:33 PM
> > To: Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Re: [SD] Re: Hello all
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi T,
> >
> > I went to a conference a couple of weekends ago
and
> listened to a
> > speaker who is an expert on equipment. The
paranormal
> world is
> questioning
> > whether spirits actually "talk" into the mics of
> digital recorders or
> if
> > they are manipulating the electronics in a
digital
> recorder. One
> experiment
> > they have worked on is putting the recorder
inside of
> something to see
> if it
> > still pics up something, an example of this is a
> microwave (DO NOT
> TURN IT
> > ON!, UNPLUG IT!) lol. They also suggest doing
video
> recordings without
> > taking the lens cap off. It's worth a try if you
are
> at home by
> yourself so
> > you may think about that. I don't understand the
> schematics of
> electronics
> > so don't have a clue how they work, just know
they do
> work. Take care
> of
> > yourself and don't work too hard!!
> >
> > Brisksail
> >
> > View my blogsite at:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://blog. 360.yahoo. com/blog- 7.uyGhs2brVFxEOw
> SggW1EzLXHE- ;_ylt=AqU
> > BTJO33SZQ1TdtKe3j4v SsAOJ3?cq= 1
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Dreama Childe dreamlight10@
...
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dreama Childe dreamlight10@ ...
> > Subject: [SD] Re: Hello all
> > To: Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 8:54 PM
> >
> >
> > Hey there Brisksail! Good to see you. lol you
aren't
> alone.
> It's
> > been
> > some time since I've checked in too. I've stayed
> pretty busy
> with
> > a lot
> > of things here and working on my websites and
such
> too. Glad
> to
> > hear
> > your research is going well. I have always
wanted to
> do that
> stuff
> > but
> > there's not a lot of opportunity for it here, so
it
> seems.
> Life is
> > busy
> > enough for me right now though, so probably a
good
> thing.
> Have
> > thought
> > about doing some "at home" type of stuff with my
> digital
> recorder
> > though. Just stay so busy. We're all doing very
well
> here
> > considering
> > all things. I think it's just been a tough past
year
> on
> everybody.
> > Hopefully things really are about to smooth out
for
> people
> > everywhere
> > soon. Everyone, take care and keep in touch.
> >
> > Blessings T.
> >
> > --- In Spiritual-Developme nt@yahoogroups. com,
> Brisksail
> > <gustybreeze1@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Good morning,
> > >
> > > I feel so bad that I haven't posted on the
site in
> so
> long, it
> > was
> > one of the reasons I tried to get Wendy to take
me off
> as
> > moderator, all
> > of you deserve someone who has the time to keep
this
> site
> going!
> > > Our paranormal research group has been
extremely
> busy in
> the
> > last
> > year and a half. We have had one very successful
> investigation of
> > a
> > local site that has really taken up most of our
groups
> time
> and we
> > don't
> > mind a bit. All of you who know me, know that I
> believe
> there are
> > souls
> > who travel side by side with us always. Trying
to find
> evidence of
> > this
> > to open up others eyes is a daunting task, I
don't
> truly
> believe
> > we will
> > ever be able to do this 100% but if a few
believe
> differently as
> > days
> > end then we have done a good job.
> > > Along with Karen, beginning a new group and
trying
> to do
> what
> > you
> > know needs to be done, is extremely hard.
Paranormal
> research is
> > such a
> > wide field that you find yourself going off in
many
> different
> > directions
> > all at the same time.
> > > So, I can't post here often, but those of you
who
> would
> like to
> > be
> > kept abreast of our research can visit us here
> > http://www.myspace. com/rivertownpar anormal .
Yea,
> it's me
> > blogging
> > again, just in a different venue.
> > > I hope everyone is doing well, haven't heard
from
> Shiva,
> Linda,
> > both
> > Tammy's, in a while. I do read, love to read
what is
> going
> on.
> > Thanks
> > Skye for continuing to post on the site. If
anyone
> wants to
> take
> > the
> > reigns please go ahead and lead the way. I can't
> change the
> > moderator
> > but you, as always, are more than welcomed to
steer
> this
> site. It
> > is the
> > people on Spiritual Development who helped me
develop
> what I
> do
> > today.
> > Hopefully this site can continue doing that for
> others.
> > > Take care everyone, I think of you often! Note
to
> Karen, I
> saw a
> > lovely print of a rainbow at our arts faire last
> night, I
> > commented to
> > my friend that if I were rich I would send it to
you
> in a
> heart
> > beat.
> > Instead my heart beat sent the visual to you,
hope you
> got
> it!
> > >
> > > Brisksail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > View my blogsite at:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > http://blog. 360.yahoo. com/blog-
7.uyGhs2brVFxEOw
> SggW1EzLXHE-
> > ;_ylt=AqUBTJO\
> > 33SZQ1TdtKe3j4vSsAO J3?cq=1
> > >
> >
>