In this case it was not a technical glitch, just me cleaning up after a couple
of people.  Since it appeared to me that it was just a misunderstanding, I did
not make a dramatic announcement explaining the rationale behind the move, but
it seemed reasonable to step in at the time.

--Will

ps. i'll respond more in depth to Don's other comments/questions when i get the
opportunity, but i'm buried at the moment.



--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "gaydave53" <gaydave53@...> wrote:
>
> hello:
>
> Just to make it clear...I am a moderator and I have never moderated Don, as
far as i know ...
>
> I Do know that Yahoo is currently f**ked up, and many times messages are lost
or access is denied...due to some new technology...
>
> repost your deleted message and I'll try to make sure it appears.
>
> David
>

Hello all,  As some people I have introduced this
Buddhism to have criticized is that it lacks *any* morality,
proven by its lack of the mere basics of THE *10 Commandments*.
  However they are very defensive when I point out that this
Buddhism does teach and their own *faith* neglects, the
basics of growing an individual into an enlightened being
and to seek, rather than avoid Human Revolution and transformation
into a person led not by rules and dictates laid out by
some primate troglodyte in a cave or sun stoked prophet eating
grasshoppers. We are to be developing our own sense of Humanity and
conscience as is relevant and entwined to our life now and
in harmony and compassion with those fellow beings we resident with
on this sphere hurledly burly through space.  Part of that
harmony is not accusing others for things that might be
attributable to the Sucky Dukkah of life's Thusness.

  Just asking.


  Gassho all
Todd Evans
'''''''//""
  "gaydave53"  wrote:
>
> hello:
>
> Just to make it clear...I am a moderator and I have never moderated Don, as
far as i know ...
>
> I Do know that Yahoo is currently f**ked up, and many times messages are lost
or access is denied...due to some new technology...
>
> repost your deleted message and I'll try to make sure it appears.
>
> David
>

"How great is the difference between the blessings received when a sage chants
the daimoku and the blessings received when we chant it?" To replay, one is in
no way superior to the other. The gold that a fool possesses is no different
from the gold that a wise man possesses; a fire made by a fool is the same as a
fire made by a wise man.

(WND, 756)
The Fourteen Slanders
Written to Matsuno Rokuro Saemon on December 9, 1276

from "Daily Wisdom - from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin"

Faith means infinite hope, and infinite hope resides in the SGI. As long as
your faith is sincere, infinite glory, boundless good fortune and endless
victory will unfold before you. You will never find yourselves at a dead end.

from SGI-USA
"For Today & Tomorrow"

hello:

Just to make it clear...I am a moderator and I have never moderated Don, as far
as i know ...

I Do know that Yahoo is currently f**ked up, and many times messages are lost or
access is denied...due to some new technology...

repost your deleted message and I'll try to make sure it appears.

David

This came up in the long thread. Don posted some quotations from Daisaku Ikeda.
From what I recall, Ikeda made the point that "Shakyamuni's Buddhism" (which I
see as redundant) is somehow too kind and compassionate. This somehow made it
possible to cave into authority. Something like that; maybe Don can find the
exact quotation.

I think compassion, or karuna, is the wrong word. Here is a quotation:

"Once we experience and feel this inter-dependence of all living beings, we will
cease to hurt, humiliate, exploit and kill another. We will want to free all
sentient beings from suffering. This is karuna, compassion, which in turn gives
rise to the responsibility to create happiness and its causes for all." â€"
Suresh Jindal; Interdependence of All Living Beings; The Times of India (New
Delhi); Nov 13, 2003.

Pali literature defines it as  “the desire {chanda} to remove {krit, cut off
or break} sorrow {dukkha} from one’s fellow-beings.�

The etymology of karuna is unclear, however it is generally taken to mean an
empathy for the suffering of others that causes one to act {Kri} in ways to
break {krit} that suffering, and disperse {krir} joy.

BTW, the Chinese word for Karuna is a kanji that is read 'shi' in sino-japanese.
It means lamentation.

I do not see compassion as a cause for tolerating evil, nor is it a weakness of
Shakyamuni's Buddhism. Also, an entire chapter of the Lotus Sutra is devoted to
the Bodhisattva of Karuna Compassion.

There is another word, khanti / kshanti; which means patience or forbearance.
The sino-japanese word for this means 'endure.' BTW, the Bodhisattva of
Forbreance, Jizo, is ignored, iirc, in the Lotus Sutra.

Someone said that kshanti means to be patient for things that do not really
deserve patience. I can see how the unwise application of this could result in
tolerance of evil. However, the circumstances Nichiren Shonin dealt with went
beyond tolerance; to collaboration. Some Buddhists allowed themselves to be
co-opted; others actively paticiparted in corruption, for short team personal
gain.

Again, I do not see this as a an inherent weakness of Shakyamuni's Buddhism. Not
at all. Instead, I think it came about because of a departure from both the
letter of the Dharma and the spirit of Shakyamuni Buddha.

Kshanti / forbearance has it place. There is no sense trying to change what one
can not control. Moreover, patience or forbearance combats unwholesome
motivations like nursing a grudge, and bigoted cultural intolerance.

Finally, all emotional states, even good ones like kindness, compassion, and
appreciative joy; should always be tempered with objectivity / non-attachment.

That is my take, right now. As always, my views could be mistaken, and are
almost certainly incomplete.

Good Morning to you, Don ;-D

Pull up a chair to the computer and have a cup of hot coffee and we can
talk.........

<<For the record, exactly, who are the "volunteer" moderators? And how, if I
wanted to notify a moderator, would I do it? Are there any woman moderators, or
is everyone of them a man?>>

O K, for the record, Don, I was "asked" by Will Kallander to be one of the many
moderators on the egroup.

And I accepted the challenge to do and be one of the many other moderators.

Can you contact us? Yes, our email addy's are on the eboard to be contacted, and
many do contact with their good and bad attitudes about how we do our job of
moderating. So, Yes,you could contact one of us.

And, Yes, Don, my name maybe ROCKY, but I am a woman. If you need actual proof
you can email Michael McCormick to ask if I exsit. And I do :-D


In the pass weeks I have NOT moderated any posts from anyone, lately.
Nothing has shown for me to do any moderating, so maybe it old Yahell acting up.
And it has to be pretty bad for me to be insulted by an email from this egroup
and I have been reading from here for over 10 yrs. So, Don I don't find you
insulting, not at all ;-]

Yeah, maybe it's a good idea for all of us to re-read the guidelines to make
sure we keep ourselves in line of our own behaviors.

Oh, if I was going to fight some one I would use my fists, I don't claw at
people, I would want to make sure I can get a few good punches in before anyone
clawed at me! =^_^=

By the way, it is NOT my decision to Banish any one I will leave that to the
owner of this egroup/eborad, thank you.

So, I hope you had time to read this in-between drinking your coffee that you
have a better understanding about how things work on this egroup/eborad. I am
sure other moderators might want to jumping after me to give any more
information I may have forgotten to post.

Have a good day, Don :] Take care,

                                   Rocky Shuldt in Antioch, CA. :-}

For the record, exactly, who are the "volunteer" moderators? And how, exactly,
if I wanted to notify a moderator, would I do it? Are there any women
moderators, or is everyone of them a man?

Anyway, I didn't keep a copy of my post, but fortunetely, the suffering of its
"death" is nirvana, and I've learned a little more about my contemporaries.

I wonder, was it a subtle remark "that can be construed as insults" that made my
post forbidden from anyone seeing it (except those who get the posts in their
e-mail)? Did someone (a moderator, perhaps) feel insulted?

And to the moderators: anyone who responds to my deleted post should have their
post deleted in kind, since what they're responding to is  being written while
taken out of context.

When I re-read the posting guidelines and came across "banishment is
irrevocable", it brought to mind the death penalty, not Buddhism. So my message
is irrevocably banished...again, the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana.

Where's the "skin of seven thicknesses" courageous men are supposed to have? I
once read, "One who declaws a cat, is a mouse of a man."

I hope I'm not being to rough on you guys.

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...> wrote:

>
> The Daishonin declares, "I, Nichiren, am sovereign, teacher, and father and
mother to all the people of Japan" (WND-I, pd 287).

That passage is mistranslated.

>That's because Shakyamuni can't make his "appearance" in the Latter Day, and
that's why he's not our parent, teacher and sovereign.

How anyone can read the Kaimoku Sho and come to that conclusion is beyond me.

<< Also, it is in the context of a patriarchal culture.

Maybe.  But as there can only be one per period and at the end of the
period no one knows what a Buddha is, what difference would it make that
only one gender would be able to start it anew.  Maybe its the male
equivalent of pregnancy. ;>>

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@...>
wrote:
>
> n what sutra is it mentioned that such a Buddha would appear in the
world to expound his teaching during the 5,670 million years between the
passing of Shakyamuni Buddha and the appearance of Maitreya, the
Compassionate Honored One? If there are no passages of proof, then who
would put faith in such an assertion? The True Word doctrines are full
of mistaken assertions of this kind, which is why I spoke of them as an
erroneous teaching.
> WND [No.38, Page 349, col 2, paragraph 92, Content]
>
>
> I do not have Volume II
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" verrytesty@
wrote:
> >
> > << What page(s)number(s)?
> >
> > MN 115 - Has several names.  One is 'The many kinds of Elements' and
the
> > verse Robin refers too is verse 14 (its short so you can find the
page
> > in whatever rendition you have).
> >
> > Be advised that verse 15 might make some go "WHAT?"  ;>>
> >
> > In the context of awakening vs actually achieving anutarra samyak
> > sambodhi the meaning isn't as exclusionary as it might at first
appear.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Also, it is in the context of a patriarchal culture. Also, I suspect
these gnostic-like symbolism; such as with the pneumatic and the hylic.
>
>
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "pb4upost" <pb4upost@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" rrobinrb2000@
> > wrote:
> > > > Only One Buddha at a Time?
> > > >
> > > > Nichiren wrote: "in what sutra is it mentioned that such a
Buddha
> > would appear in the world to expound his teaching during the 5,670
> > million years between the Shakyamuni Buddha and the
> appearance of Maitreya,, the Compassionate Honored One? If there are
no
> > passages of proof, then who would put faith in such an assertion?"
--
> > Kito Sho
> > > >
> > > > Also, "there cannot be two Buddhas in a single world, just as
there
> > cannot be two rulers in a single nation -- this is a principle
> > established by the sacred teachings of the Buddha. One has only to
look
> > at the thirty fifth volume of the Nirvana Sutra to see this." -- WND
Vol
> > II
> > > >
> > > > The Buddha said the same thing: "It is impossible that in one
world
> > two unsurpassed perfectly enlightened Buddhas {anutarra samyak
> > sambuddhas}  could arise at the same time." -- MN 115
> > >
> > >
> > > What page(s)number(s)?
> > >
> > > pb
> > >
> >
>

Gold can be neither burned by fire nor corroded or swept away by water, but iron
is vulnerable to both. A worthy person is like gold, a fool like iron. You are
like pure gold because you embrace the "gold" of the Lotus Sutra. The sutra
states, "Just as among all the mountains, Mount Sumeru is foremost, so this
Lotus Sutra is likewise." It also states, "The good fortune you gain thereby ...
cannot be burned by fire or washed away by water."

(WND, 217)
The Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life
Written to Sairen-bo Nichijo on February 11, 1272

from "Daily Wisdom - from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin"

Joy is not simply your personal, egoistic happiness. Nor is it making others
happy at the expense of your own happiness. You and others delighting together,
you and others becoming happy together -- this is the Mystic Law and the
wondrous thing about our realm of kosen-rufu. The Daishonin states, "Joy means
that both oneself and others have wisdom and compassion" (Gosho Zenshu, p. 761).

from SGI-USA
"For Today & Tomorrow"

n what sutra is it mentioned that such a Buddha would appear in the world to
expound his teaching during the 5,670 million years between the passing of
Shakyamuni Buddha and the appearance of Maitreya, the Compassionate Honored One?
If there are no passages of proof, then who would put faith in such an
assertion? The True Word doctrines are full of mistaken assertions of this kind,
which is why I spoke of them as an erroneous teaching.
WND [No.38, Page 349, col 2, paragraph 92, Content]


I do not have Volume II
--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" <verrytesty@...>
wrote:
>
> << What page(s)number(s)?
>
> MN 115 - Has several names.  One is 'The many kinds of Elements' and the
> verse Robin refers too is verse 14 (its short so you can find the page
> in whatever rendition you have).
>
> Be advised that verse 15 might make some go "WHAT?"  ;>>
>
> In the context of awakening vs actually achieving anutarra samyak
> sambodhi the meaning isn't as exclusionary as it might at first appear.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, it is in the context of a patriarchal culture. Also, I suspect these
gnostic-like symbolism; such as with the pneumatic and the hylic.


>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "pb4upost" <pb4upost@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" rrobinrb2000@
> wrote:
> > > Only One Buddha at a Time?
> > >
> > > Nichiren wrote: "in what sutra is it mentioned that such a Buddha
> would appear in the world to expound his teaching during the 5,670
> million years between the Shakyamuni Buddha and the
appearance of Maitreya,, the Compassionate Honored One? If there are no
> passages of proof, then who would put faith in such an assertion?" --
> Kito Sho
> > >
> > > Also, "there cannot be two Buddhas in a single world, just as there
> cannot be two rulers in a single nation -- this is a principle
> established by the sacred teachings of the Buddha. One has only to look
> at the thirty fifth volume of the Nirvana Sutra to see this." -- WND Vol
> II
> > >
> > > The Buddha said the same thing: "It is impossible that in one world
> two unsurpassed perfectly enlightened Buddhas {anutarra samyak
> sambuddhas}  could arise at the same time." -- MN 115
> >
> >
> > What page(s)number(s)?
> >
> > pb
> >
>

<< What page(s)number(s)?

MN 115 - Has several names.  One is 'The many kinds of Elements' and the
verse Robin refers too is verse 14 (its short so you can find the page
in whatever rendition you have).

Be advised that verse 15 might make some go "WHAT?"  ;>>

In the context of awakening vs actually achieving anutarra samyak
sambodhi the meaning isn't as exclusionary as it might at first appear.


--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "pb4upost" <pb4upost@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" rrobinrb2000@
wrote:
> > Only One Buddha at a Time?
> >
> > Nichiren wrote: "in what sutra is it mentioned that such a Buddha
would appear in the world to expound his teaching during the 5,670
million years between the passing of Shakyamuni Buddha and the
appearance of Maitreya, the Compassionate Honored One? If there are no
passages of proof, then who would put faith in such an assertion?" --
Kito Sho
> >
> > Also, "there cannot be two Buddhas in a single world, just as there
cannot be two rulers in a single nation -- this is a principle
established by the sacred teachings of the Buddha. One has only to look
at the thirty fifth volume of the Nirvana Sutra to see this." -- WND Vol
II
> >
> > The Buddha said the same thing: "It is impossible that in one world
two unsurpassed perfectly enlightened Buddhas {anutarra samyak
sambuddhas}  could arise at the same time." -- MN 115
>
>
> What page(s)number(s)?
>
> pb
>

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@...> wrote:
> Only One Buddha at a Time?
>
> Nichiren wrote: "in what sutra is it mentioned that such a Buddha would appear
in the world to expound his teaching during the 5,670 million years between the
passing of Shakyamuni Buddha and the appearance of Maitreya, the Compassionate
Honored One? If there are no passages of proof, then who would put faith in such
an assertion?" -- Kito Sho
>
> Also, "there cannot be two Buddhas in a single world, just as there cannot be
two rulers in a single nation -- this is a principle established by the sacred
teachings of the Buddha. One has only to look at the thirty fifth volume of the
Nirvana Sutra to see this." -- WND Vol II
>
> The Buddha said the same thing: "It is impossible that in one world two
unsurpassed perfectly enlightened Buddhas {anutarra samyak sambuddhas}  could
arise at the same time." -- MN 115


What page(s)number(s)?

pb

A single life is worth more than the major world system. You still have many
years ahead of you, and moreover you have encountered the Lotus Sutra. If you
live even one day longer, you can accumulate that much more benefit. How truly
precious your life is!

(WND, 955)
On Prolonging One's Life Span
Written to the lay nun Myojo in 1279

from "Daily Wisdom - from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin"

It is our hearts that change others' hearts. Friendship changes people.
Travelers who pull their capes over their shoulders and brace themselves
determinedly against the cold wind naturally relax and change their outlook and
actions when warmed by the sun.

from SGI-USA
"For Today & Tomorrow"

You have associated with a friend in the orchid room and have become as straight
as mugwort growing among hemp. If you will truly give consideration to the
troubles I have been describing and put entire faith in these words of mine,
then the winds will blow gently, the waves will be calm, and in no time at all
we will enjoy bountiful harvests.

(WND, 23)
On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land
Submitted to Hojo Tokiyori on July 16, 1260

from "Daily Wisdom - from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin"

Where can we find the royal road to reformation and change? Emerson declared:
"Not he is great who can alter matter, but he who can alter my state of mind."
He strongly urged us to undergo an inner reformation. I want you to be assured
that the challenge to which we set ourselves day after day -- that of our human
revolution -- is the royal road to bringing about a reformation in our families,
local regions and societies. An inner revolution is the most fundamental and at
the same times the ultimate revolution for engendering change in all things.

from SGI-USA
"For Today & Tomorrow"

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "sunderlandmick" <mickg1@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm being facetious, of course, but could never trouble myself into learning
infinite meanings of several other languages, especially at my age!
> >
> >
>
> Nor me Don. But I'm glad someone is doing it. If nobody made
> this effort I would never had read the Gosho or the LS or the
> many other texts which are available now. Or we could have
> let a handful of scholars translate stuff into english and
> taken their word for it. Every time someone like Robin digs
> into where these words come from I learn a little more. Maybe
> he gets some of it wrong and changes his mind when he finds
> new information and so forth, but with a bunch of people
> looking into it our base of knowledge becomes steadily more
> complete and reliable.
>
> Mick
>

The thing is, words mean something. Scholars are constantly revising
translations. We can look at the Pali / Sanskrit, and find some cognates in
English. We can look at the Chinese words chosen as translations.

Consider the word cetana. The Buddha said Karma, or volitional moral causality,
is primarily cetana. Bhikku Bodhi translates cetana as intention. So, is the
morality of a thought, word, or deed determined by one's intention? The Buddha
includes confusion and ignorance as cetanas. I do not think people are usually
intentionally confused. The Chinese is not helpful here; there are about 5
different kanji used.

My take is a cetana is a mental state; an attitude, desire, or thought that
becomes a motive to think, speak, or act. Is gets more complicated because there
are also samskaras. That word gets translation as motivation, volition, will,
impulse. It literal refers to anything that causes conditions as well the
condition. I like conditioning as a translation. Samskara is something like
patterns of habitual motivations.

The Buddha also said that the karmic quality of a cetana can be kushala,
akushala, or neutral. So now we need to what kushala means. He also divided
kushala karma into merits {punya} and virtues {guna}. The difference is that
merits have outflows and still bind us to samsara. Virtues do not have outflows
and are liberating.

The practical issue is that we can reflect on the motives behind our thoughts,
words, and deeds. We know what we intend; but what is our real intention? Are we
being manipulated by 'conditioners' in the environment. Are confusion, anxiety,
and other negative mental states causing us to make bad decisions?

Also, if we want to change our karma, we must change our thoughts, words, and
deeds. If we wish to do that, we need to change the cetanas behind them, the
mental states that cause the intentions to think, speak, or act to arise. The
literature gives us of lists akushala {bad} cetanas; like greed, anger,
stupidity and so on. There are lists of kushala {good} cetanas that we ought to
cultivate like objectivity, patience, tolerance, discernment, kindness, and
compassion.

One list:

The Seven Limbs of Enlightenment {bojjhanga}

    1. Mindfulness (sati/smrti)
    2. Keen analysis of phenomena & truth (dhamma / dharma vicaya)
    3. Energy (viriya)
    4. Joy (piti)
    5. Tranquility, composure (passaddhi)
    6. Concentration (samadhi)
    7. Equanimity (upekkha/upeksha)

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm being facetious, of course, but could never trouble myself into learning
infinite meanings of several other languages, especially at my age!
>
>

Nor me Don. But I'm glad someone is doing it. If nobody made
this effort I would never had read the Gosho or the LS or the
many other texts which are available now. Or we could have
let a handful of scholars translate stuff into english and
taken their word for it. Every time someone like Robin digs
into where these words come from I learn a little more. Maybe
he gets some of it wrong and changes his mind when he finds
new information and so forth, but with a bunch of people
looking into it our base of knowledge becomes steadily more
complete and reliable.

Mick

<< I'm still struggling to learn English so I can better propagate this
teaching in America.  I'm
<< being facetious, of course, but could never trouble myself into
learning infinite meanings of
<< several other languages, especially at my age!

" Even after the Futsu era of the Liang dynasty there were some who went
to India.  What was the use of that?  It was the most extreme stupidity.
Led by bad karma, they wandered astray through foreign lands....They did
not study the principal that the Western Heavens had come to the east
and they did not clarify the eastward advance of the
Buddha-Dharma...They have reputations as seekers of the Buddha-Dharma,
but they did not have any will to the truth with which to pursue the
Buddha-Dharma and so did not meet a true teacher even in India....The
reason is that they did not have the right state of mind with which to
pursue the right Dharma, and so--even though authentic teachers were
still present in India---those wanders did not get their hands upon
authentic Dharma." - Dogen, Gyoji-2

Robin's pursuit seems at minimum along the path of recognition that the
True Dharma could never be confined within a single realm of language,
society, ritual or personal experience.

Its not a question of age.  Its a question of how far one is willing to
trouble themselves for correct view.

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...>
wrote:
>
> For the life of me, Rob, I don't know why you haven't moved to India.
I'm still struggling to learn English so I can better propagate this
teaching in America.
>
> I'm being facetious, of course, but could never trouble myself into
learning infinite meanings of several other languages, especially at my
age!
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" rrobinrb2000@
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@>
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, taishakusan
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Morning Everyone :-D
> > > >
> > > > <<There are "Kimyo Myoho Renge Kyo' and Keishu Myoho Renge
Kyo'too.>>
> > > >
> > > > Does any one know of an english translation that might exist or
even some history about these mantras?
> > > >
> > > > It's interesting to know of these other mantras, instead of
chant what we know already we could have been chating those other
phrase.
> > > >
> > > > Have a good morning,
> > > >
> > > >                     Rocky  :-}
> > > >
> > >
> > > Keishu means 'bow before' and Kimyo means 'devotion to." They are
translations of Namah
> > >
> >
> > Namu, Kimyo, Keirei, or Keishu Myohorengekyo all meran the same
thing, "I take reguge in the Lotus Sutra."
> >
> > Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo is a translastion of Sad Dharma Pudarika Sutra;
or, in english, "Wondrous Dharma White Lotus Discourse"
> >
> > This can get complicated. Sometimes, when sanskrit was translated
into Chinese, they just "borrowed" the sanskrit word, rather than trying
to translate it. Karma is an example of a borrowed word in English; it
is borrowed from Sanskrit. We write it using our alphabet. That is
called a transliteration. "Volitional Moral Causality" is a translation
of Karma. There is no English word for that.
> >
> > Transliterating from Sanskrit, a phonetic language, to Chinese, an
ideographic language, is strange. They had to pick words {chinese
ideographs} that sounded like the sanskritm regardless of meaning.
> >
> > Namah, Namas, Namo, & Namaste are forms of a Sanskrit word that
means to respect, revere, hail, offer salutations, honor, pay homage to,
submit too; much like Ave in Latin. The original word meant to pay
obeisances to, to bow before. It is associated with anjali. Anj means to
honor or celebrate. Anjali is a mudra, a gesture, a way of holding the
hands with palms together, often in front of the heart. It is called
gassho in Japan. The concept of Namaste Anjali appears in the Lotus
Sutra many times as "bowing with a gesture of respect."
> >
> > The two kanji for Namah, Namas, Namo can be viewed here:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ycezwh4
> > preview TinyURL:
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycezwh4
> >
> > or here:
> > http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E5%8D%97%E7%84%A1
> >
> > As you can see, the words mean southless; which is nonsense. They
are used for their sound in Chinese, nan + wu or mo = namu or namo to
mean Namo from hybrid sanskrit. meaning 'to take refuge in.'
> >
> > They also translated Namo several ways:
> >
> > Bow Before:
> >
> > Jingsho
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb7dhvz
> > or Keishu / kyoshu:
> > http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%95%AC%E9%A6%96
> >
> > Jingli
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykuf4az
> > or Keirei / Kyorei
> > http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%95%AC%E7%A4%BC
> >
> > "to worship: Paying reverence, worship. (Skt. vandan&#299;, namaste,
nama&#7717;-vandana, vandana, abhiv&#257;dana, namana, namas,
namas-k&#257;ra, pra&#7751;ipatita, vandan&#299;ya, vandita,
s&#257;m&#299;c&#299;; Tib. phyag 'tshal ba, phyag 'tsal bar byed pa)
[cmuller; reference(s): Soothill,YBh-Ind,Hirakawa]" -- ddb
> >
> > Devotion to:
> >
> > Guiming
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaljjm6
> > or kimyoo
> > http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%AD%B8%E5%91%BD
> >
> > "I take refuge (in the three treasures, etc.). A translation of the
Sanskrit namas, also transliterated as **. To devote one's life (to the
Buddha, etc.); to entrust one's life; to obey the Buddha's teaching. For
an extensive definition of this term see Wonhyo's Commentary on the
Awakening of Faith" -- ddb
> >
> >
> > Palms together:
> > hezhang
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/y9g7wp8
> > or
> > gassho
> > http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E5%90%88%E6%8E%8C
> >
>

Went to a planning meeting the other evening where a guy talked about his
difficulties - and how this year was a real struggle for him - and he felt
vulnerable - and felt that he should feel that way after all those years of
practice.  But then he thought that he needed to make his faith even stronger to
withstand the difficulties he was finding in his life.

I asked him if he was not just putting extra pressure on himself by believing
that he **should** be stronger.  I also pointed out a number of good things in
his life which made him be in a fairly enviable position.

However, this got me thinking: is the SGI world view, that of an obstacle-ridden
world whose hurdles can be overcome only by the power of faith - is this, not
itself, the poison?  Is it not just a severely **wrong** view of the world? 
Which leads to a kind of prideful self-assertion (I am right, the world is
wrong, I will be vindicated by my eventual triumph!)  Which leads to a vicious
circle (my obstacles are high, therefore i must chant more, which brings out
more obstacles, which challenges me to chant more).  And most of all, prohibits
real introspection and self analysis: I may be wrong! These may not be obstacles
to overcome - but rather instructive pointers to self-reform.

The world may be right: I may be wrong.  All those very happy people I know who
do not practice Buddhism - maybe it is they who have discovered enlightenment! 
Maybe me, when I talk of obstacles and victories and goals and struggles all the
time: maybe its me who has got it wrong.  Maybe those who are happy and don't
talk of obstacles all the time - maybe they are happy because they don't think
in terms of obstacles and struggles all the time.  Maybe that is the secret of
normal happy people.  They don't have this silly vision of obstacles and
hardships and ichinen and overcoming and struggle and breaking-through and all
that shit.  Maybe they just accept the world, adapt to it, and enjoy it!  Maybe
that is what it is all about.

Therefore the next time you hear someone at a meeting: I chant because I need
the strength to overcome these obstacles: maybe you should think: no - you need
**to see** these obstacles to justify chanting!

Steve

For the life of me, Rob, I don't know why you haven't moved to India. I'm still
struggling to learn English so I can better propagate this teaching in America.

I'm being facetious, of course, but could never trouble myself into learning
infinite meanings of several other languages, especially at my age!



--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, taishakusan <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Morning Everyone :-D
> > >
> > > <<There are "Kimyo Myoho Renge Kyo' and Keishu Myoho Renge Kyo'too.>>
> > >
> > > Does any one know of an english translation that might exist or even some
history about these mantras?
> > >
> > > It's interesting to know of these other mantras, instead of chant what we
know already we could have been chating those other phrase.
> > >
> > > Have a good morning,
> > >
> > >                     Rocky  :-}
> > >
> >
> > Keishu means 'bow before' and Kimyo means 'devotion to." They are
translations of Namah
> >
>
> Namu, Kimyo, Keirei, or Keishu Myohorengekyo all meran the same thing, "I take
reguge in the Lotus Sutra."
>
> Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo is a translastion of Sad Dharma Pudarika Sutra; or, in
english, "Wondrous Dharma White Lotus Discourse"
>
> This can get complicated. Sometimes, when sanskrit was translated into
Chinese, they just "borrowed" the sanskrit word, rather than trying to translate
it. Karma is an example of a borrowed word in English; it is borrowed from
Sanskrit. We write it using our alphabet. That is called a transliteration.
"Volitional Moral Causality" is a translation of Karma. There is no English word
for that.
>
> Transliterating from Sanskrit, a phonetic language, to Chinese, an ideographic
language, is strange. They had to pick words {chinese ideographs} that sounded
like the sanskritm regardless of meaning.
>
> Namah, Namas, Namo, & Namaste are forms of a Sanskrit word that means to
respect, revere, hail, offer salutations, honor, pay homage to, submit too; much
like Ave in Latin. The original word meant to pay obeisances to, to bow before.
It is associated with anjali. Anj means to honor or celebrate. Anjali is a
mudra, a gesture, a way of holding the hands with palms together, often in front
of the heart. It is called gassho in Japan. The concept of Namaste Anjali
appears in the Lotus Sutra many times as "bowing with a gesture of respect."
>
> The two kanji for Namah, Namas, Namo can be viewed here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ycezwh4
> preview TinyURL:
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycezwh4
>
> or here:
> http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E5%8D%97%E7%84%A1
>
> As you can see, the words mean southless; which is nonsense. They are used for
their sound in Chinese, nan + wu or mo = namu or namo to mean Namo from hybrid
sanskrit. meaning 'to take refuge in.'
>
> They also translated Namo several ways:
>
> Bow Before:
>
> Jingsho
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb7dhvz
> or Keishu / kyoshu:
> http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%95%AC%E9%A6%96
>
> Jingli
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykuf4az
> or Keirei / Kyorei
> http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%95%AC%E7%A4%BC
>
> "to worship: Paying reverence, worship. (Skt. vandan&#299;, namaste,
nama&#7717;-vandana, vandana, abhiv&#257;dana, namana, namas, namas-k&#257;ra,
pra&#7751;ipatita, vandan&#299;ya, vandita, s&#257;m&#299;c&#299;; Tib. phyag
'tshal ba, phyag 'tsal bar byed pa) [cmuller; reference(s):
Soothill,YBh-Ind,Hirakawa]" -- ddb
>
> Devotion to:
>
> Guiming
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaljjm6
> or kimyoo
> http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%AD%B8%E5%91%BD
>
> "I take refuge (in the three treasures, etc.). A translation of the Sanskrit
namas, also transliterated as **. To devote one's life (to the Buddha, etc.); to
entrust one's life; to obey the Buddha's teaching. For an extensive definition
of this term see Wonhyo's Commentary on the Awakening of Faith" -- ddb
>
>
> Palms together:
> hezhang
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/y9g7wp8
> or
> gassho
> http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E5%90%88%E6%8E%8C
>

一乘ç¶" Ichijo Kyo or Ekayana Sutra; the One Vehicle Sutra

一乘妙典 Ichijo Myoden {or ten} The One Vehicle Wondrous Code or Text.

一乘妙文 Ichijo myomon One Vehicle Wondrous Gate

These are alternate names for the Lotus Sutra.



--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "gaydave53" <gaydave53@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, Alan Simmons <kenzoku@> wrote:
> > >
> > > He says that although "It amounts to the same thing" it would bebetter to
chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.
> >
> > He also says "there are specific reasons why I say this..."
> >
> > Does anyone know what those reasons are?
>
> Do you know the kanji for Myoten? Ichijo is likely ekayana; the one vehicle.
Do you know the source of that mantra? Nichiren seemed to think Vasubandhu
chanted Daimoku? Chih-i likely did; at times, but no one knows how he pronounced
it. Maybe closer to sino-japanese than mandarin; but that is a guestimation.
>

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, taishakusan <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Morning Everyone :-D
> >
> > <<There are "Kimyo Myoho Renge Kyo' and Keishu Myoho Renge Kyo'too.>>
> >
> > Does any one know of an english translation that might exist or even some
history about these mantras?
> >
> > It's interesting to know of these other mantras, instead of chant what we
know already we could have been chating those other phrase.
> >
> > Have a good morning,
> >
> >                     Rocky  :-}
> >
>
> Keishu means 'bow before' and Kimyo means 'devotion to." They are translations
of Namah
>

Namu, Kimyo, Keirei, or Keishu Myohorengekyo all meran the same thing, "I take
reguge in the Lotus Sutra."

Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo is a translastion of Sad Dharma Pudarika Sutra; or, in
english, "Wondrous Dharma White Lotus Discourse"

This can get complicated. Sometimes, when sanskrit was translated into Chinese,
they just "borrowed" the sanskrit word, rather than trying to translate it.
Karma is an example of a borrowed word in English; it is borrowed from Sanskrit.
We write it using our alphabet. That is called a transliteration. "Volitional
Moral Causality" is a translation of Karma. There is no English word for that.

Transliterating from Sanskrit, a phonetic language, to Chinese, an ideographic
language, is strange. They had to pick words {chinese ideographs} that sounded
like the sanskritm regardless of meaning.

Namah, Namas, Namo, & Namaste are forms of a Sanskrit word that means to
respect, revere, hail, offer salutations, honor, pay homage to, submit too; much
like Ave in Latin. The original word meant to pay obeisances to, to bow before.
It is associated with anjali. Anj means to honor or celebrate. Anjali is a
mudra, a gesture, a way of holding the hands with palms together, often in front
of the heart. It is called gassho in Japan. The concept of Namaste Anjali
appears in the Lotus Sutra many times as "bowing with a gesture of respect."

The two kanji for Namah, Namas, Namo can be viewed here:

http://tinyurl.com/ycezwh4
preview TinyURL:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycezwh4

or here:
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E5%8D%97%E7%84%A1

As you can see, the words mean southless; which is nonsense. They are used for
their sound in Chinese, nan + wu or mo = namu or namo to mean Namo from hybrid
sanskrit. meaning 'to take refuge in.'

They also translated Namo several ways:

Bow Before:

Jingsho
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb7dhvz
or Keishu / kyoshu:
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%95%AC%E9%A6%96

Jingli
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykuf4az
or Keirei / Kyorei
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%95%AC%E7%A4%BC

"to worship: Paying reverence, worship. (Skt. vandan&#299;, namaste,
nama&#7717;-vandana, vandana, abhiv&#257;dana, namana, namas, namas-k&#257;ra,
pra&#7751;ipatita, vandan&#299;ya, vandita, s&#257;m&#299;c&#299;; Tib. phyag
'tshal ba, phyag 'tsal bar byed pa) [cmuller; reference(s):
Soothill,YBh-Ind,Hirakawa]" -- ddb

Devotion to:

Guiming
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaljjm6
or kimyoo
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%AD%B8%E5%91%BD

"I take refuge (in the three treasures, etc.). A translation of the Sanskrit
namas, also transliterated as **. To devote one's life (to the Buddha, etc.); to
entrust one's life; to obey the Buddha's teaching. For an extensive definition
of this term see Wonhyo's Commentary on the Awakening of Faith" -- ddb


Palms together:
hezhang
http://preview.tinyurl.com/y9g7wp8
or
gassho
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E5%90%88%E6%8E%8C

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rrobinrb2000@...>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, John Andre <john.andre85@> wrote:
> >
> > My background involves Latin.  The Latin form is the verb cognoscere "to
know".


This laymen's inexact speculation. None of this an exact science, and leads to
arguments among experts. It should all be taken with grains of skeptical salt.

co = with, integration {sam in sanakrit}

gno = to know, directly.  {jna in sanskrit

scere = to know, to sort out {sanskrit chyat?} by seeing. Passa in sanskrit
conveys a similar meaning; passa means to observe, to see, as in eye sight; but
is also used metaphorically for "to get it."

prajna. The pra is roughly the same as pro, per, pre. Here it means before, like
a perquisite. It is now generally translated as discernment. It means cognitive
skill, inellect. intelligence. The Chinese word means intelligent
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ylmopv6

jnana. The - na sometimes works like '- ment' or "- tion" indicating the state
of. So jnana could be path of or the state of knowing; one's subjective
knowledge. Na could also change the verb jna as know to an adjective or noun;
'known.' The Chinese translation means to be aware.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ylzlrkm

vijnana. The vi is the same 'dis.' It can be an intensifier as in disbar or
disgruntle. It can mean apart, as in dismember. However, it is never a negation.
As the term for sensory consciousness, it translates as discrimination. Vijnana
tells things apart. Also, it can mean consciousness {citta} in general; its
categories -- like with the 8 or 9 vijnana. The kanji for this means write,
record, discriminating
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E8%AD%98

samjna. The sam is often used like Com / co / con in the sense of
con, com: with, together [convene, compress, contemporary, converge, compact,
confluence, concatenate, conjoin, combine, convert, compatible, consequence.] It
can also have the sense of dia, meaning across. as in diagnostic It has the same
roots as sim or same, as in simulate. It can mean to integrate. Sam is, btw, the
san in sankrit. Sam-jna = together, integrate, or across + to know. It gets
translated as conception, cognition, and perception. {ddb" associative thought,
or symbolic function; Refers to images that surface in the mind.] Here is the
kanji:
http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/?k=%E6%83%B3


passa / pashya. To see and to know. To observe empirically. A different word,
lok, means the literal 'to look.'

passadhi / prashrabdhi}. Passa + dhi. The dhi can mean to impart or to hold.
Dha, as ion dharani, is a form of dhi.  passadhi is translated as tranqility.

passana / pashyana. Passa + na = inspection, insight.

vipassana / vipashyana. Here, the vi is an intensive, not a divider. Vi often
denotes something more profound, sacred, or spirotual. Vi-passa means intuition
or spiritual insight. The na makes it the process; so vipassana = spiritual
introspection. Also translated as discernment. Chinese:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yf4lf46

vidya. from vid, to know. Has a common root with vision. Also, with veda,
wiccan, wit, wisdom. A Chinese translation, read myo, means lamp, bright, light.
Means objective wisdom. "A science, knowledge, understanding; (Skt. vidy�; Tib.
rig pa). Knowing, consciousness. Perspicacity" The vedas or fields of knowledge
in classical Indian society. -- ddb

Chinese: myoron, minglun
  http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjuk32n

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...> wrote:
>
> <<I asked Greg ? (the study dept guy) about it>>
>
> Exactly, what are the predictions in the Lotus Sutra? I only found this...
>
> In The Outstanding Principles of the Lotus Sutra, the Great Teacher Dengyo
writes:
>
> "Speaking of the age, [the propagation of the true teaching will begin] in the
age when the Middle Day of the Law ends and the Latter Day opens. Regarding the
land, it will begin in a land to the east of T'ang and to the west of Katsu. As
for the people, it will spread among people stained by the five impurities who
live in a time of conflict. The sutra says, 'Since hatred and jealousy toward
this sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more
will this be so after his passing?' There is good reason for this statement"
(WND, 375(76).
>
> T'ang refers to China, and Katsu to a Tungusic nation that ruled over
northeastern China and northern Korea in the sixth and seventh centuries. "A
land to the east of T'ang and to the west of Katsu" indicates Japan according to
old maps.

In other words, this alleged prediction comes from a commentary written by
Saicho, the founder of Japanese Tendai?



>
>
>
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "sunderlandmick" <mickg1@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, John Andre <john.andre85@>
wrote:
> > >
> > Shakyamuni included within the Lotus Sutra teachings a number of prophesies
regarding the Boddhisattva or Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law {Mappo} to
appear in a  land to the north and east of India in the distant future at a
time when the original teachings of the Buddha would lose their
> > >  effectiveness and the priesthood/sangha would be corrupted by worldly
influences.
> > >
> >
> > Boy, this one takes me back. I heard this many times over the
> > years. A common version was that "a Buddha infinitely greater
> > than myself will appear in a small island to the East". When I
> > eventually got a copy of the Lotus Sutra and read it I searched
> > and searched for this stuff. Once at a meeting I asked Greg ?
> > (the study dept guy) about it and he said he would look it up
> > and get back to me with the page number. Of course he never
> > did because it doesn't exist.
> >
> > Mick
> >
>

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, John Andre <john.andre85@...>
wrote:
>
> My background involves Latin.  The Latin form is the verb cognoscere "to
know".

co = with
gno = know
scere = to know, to sort out

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, taishakusan <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Morning Everyone :-D
>
> <<There are "Kimyo Myoho Renge Kyo' and Keishu Myoho Renge Kyo'too.>>
>
> Does any one know of an english translation that might exist or even some
history about these mantras?
>
> It's interesting to know of these other mantras, instead of chant what we know
already we could have been chating those other phrase.
>
> Have a good morning,
>
>                     Rocky  :-}
>

Keishu means 'bow before' and Kimyo means 'devotion to." They are translations
of Namah