<<Hmmm, 2 days later and no explanation>>

Sorry for being so late. I thought Andy, or anyone else might be able to inform
you (I'm being facetious, of course). You'd have to read it to know it, though.

I do have a real job as well...much of my writing is done early in the morning
and then I'm out the door. Today I began work at 6:30am and didn't get back home
until after 4pm.

For your next questions, I'll give it some thought and then I'll be at it again
about 4am after I've chanted a little.




--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, brightlightcity <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
> Hmmm, 2 days later and no explanation about the "historic calligraphy." Seemed
like a reasonable question to me. . . must not be that "historic" or maybe its
one of those secret teachings Chris is always talking about.
>
> Don, here's a couple more questions you probably won't answer either, but
perhaps posing them will cause folks to ponder a bit. . .
> You wrote, "I recall Makiguchi chiding the priesthood for ignoring the
principle of punishment (seven dharanis), especially since it is so obviously
displayed on the Gohonzon."
>
> But, I don't recall there being any dharanis on the Gohonzon. Nor have I ever
heard of "punishment" dharanis. I could be mistaken, but the closest thing to
this I can think of is the inscription: "One who slanders will have [his] head
broken into seven pieces." "This", I guess, means the Gohonzon.
>
> Which brings me to another question which no one has attempted to answer, now
phrased a bit differently. . . How does the Gohonzon know it has been slandered?
Does it have a consciousness that perceives such things, or maybe its magic. . .
>
> Don quoted this: "Good demons feed upon enemies of the Lotus Sutra. . ." How
does one become an enemy of the Lotus Sutra? How does the Lotus Sutra know it
has enemies?
>
> Seems to me that if the idea of punishment derived from slander of either the
Gohonzon or the LS is a true principle, there should be some way to explain how
that works.
>
> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, brightlightcity <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> > Don, I do not receive any SGI publications but I am curious about this
"historic calligraphy." Would you be so kind as to tell us about it? Thanks.
> >
> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp" <djgropp@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Don <<the SGI; do you read the publications?>>
> > >
> > > Andy <<Yes>>
> > >
> > > Perhaps, Andy, you could substantiate your claim by citing something
you've read in the latest "Living Buddhism?" Can you tell me anything about the
WT article on the "historic calligraphy" which was recently unveiled?
> > >
> > > Andy <<What's your point, Don?>>
> > >
> > > I can't imagine you subscribing to the WT or LB which supports the SGI, an
organization you dropped out of so many years ago. I'm thinking you've missed
out on a lot of new information; things we've never known about or heard before,
such as the recently unveiled calligraphy "kyosen," meaning "shared struggle,"
written by Mr. Ikeda on May 3, 1979 after being forced to step down a third Soka
Gakkai President on April 24th. Do you know about it?
> > >
> > > Andy <<What is your opinion about Ted Osaki's death? How about Shin
Yatomi?>>
> > >
> > > Dying is not considered punishment or reward, it's simply a fact.
Personally, I'd like to die in my sleep, or die while peacefully sipping a drink
among friends, the way Ted Osaki did. When one reads Shin Yatomi's personal
account about his terminal situation, one doesn't get the impression that he
suffered at all.
> > >
> > > How we are remembered, though, can be an eternal punishment or reward.
What I mean is, George W. Bush will be remembered for "giving his allegience to
evil," and Mr. Osaki will be remembered as "giving his all for kosen-rufu."
They are both eternally historic figures; the difference lies in their
contributions to humanity, which sets them worlds apart.
> > >
> > > I won't even surmise the Daishonin's death, but he proved through his
actions that he was the toughest and smartest guy on this planet. We'll never
have a lot to say about Hitler, Mussolini, Bush and other tyrants, but we'll be
saying "Nichiren this" and "Nichiren that" everyday for the next "ten-thousand
years and more."
> > >
> > > I was just reading some of my personal notes from early 2002, and I'd
written down something that James Hermann told my kids (all teen-agers) when
they complained of the leaders not changing. At that time Oregon had the lowest
statistical increase of new members in the U.S., which is why James came to
visit with the Oregon Youth Division members.
> > >
> > > Mr. Hermann told them:
> > > "If you see someone who has been chanting 20-25 years and they still have
the same problem, it means they've been chanting only for themselves, and not
for others."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Hanlen" <andyhanlen1@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don Gropp wrote:
> > > >
> > > > << Do you keep up with Nichiren Shoshu activities and read their
publications? >>
> > > >
> > > > Yes. Do you?
> > > >
> > > > << Are you up-to-date with what's going on in the SGI; do you read the
publications? >>
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > > >
> > > > What's your point, Don?
> > > >
> > > > You are happy to judge those who have left the SGI's deaths as some kind
of punishment, and yet you have nothing to say agout SGI members and leaders who
likewise die untimely and/or unpleasant deaths. What is your opinion about Ted
Osaki's death? How about Shin Yatomi? Were those punishment? Were those worse
than Brad Nixon's?
> > > >
> > > > How about Nichiren's death, due to bowel problems, certainly painful and
maybe colon cancer? Punishment?
> > > >
> > > > Talk real, Don. Give us your real feelings and opinons about these
matters.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers!
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > > > <<Nichikan-based Nichiren Shoshu positions are the same now as they
were then>>
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you keep up with Nichiren Shoshu activities and read their
publications?
> > > > >
> > > > > <<What's changed is what portions of those the SGI chooses to cling
to>>
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you up-to-date with what's going on in the SGI; do you read the
publications?
> > > > >
> > > > > <<the Gakkai's departure from Shoshu orthodoxy was not done honestly
and "in the light of day">>
> > > > >
> > > > > This statement is entirely rhetorical.
> > > > >
> > > > > <<confusing for sincere members who, loving their organization, want
to embrace its doctrine>>
> > > > >
> > > > > Everyone is confused in the beginning of their practice, that's why we
"practice and study." Without both, "their can be no Buddhism." Are you
up-to-date with what's going on in the SGI; do you read the publications?>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Hanlen"
<andyhanlen1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don Gropp wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > << Andy, like a good Greek citizen, puts his learned rhetoric to
use. >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As often happens, Don, I don't understand what you are saying.
Please clarify. Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Hanlen"
<andyhanlen1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kathy Sain wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > << Sorry, Andy, I think I missed your lower point about Shoshu
orthodoxy, >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No worries.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > << but there was a time when it worked okay and KR was on track
and we were changing our karma massively and a lot of people were joining and
they were, too. >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That it "worked" was, I am convinced, much more a product of the
sincere efforts of the individuals involved than it was a particularly creed or
orthodoxy. We meant it, and we made it happen. We still can, and do, in our
personal lives.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > << I am not at liberty to discuss what I think derailed, but
actual proof indicates that it did, so it's a then and now thing, frankly, it
hasn't remained the same, the "orthodoxy". >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Depends on who you ask, and when. Certainly the Nichikan-based
Nichiren Shoshu positions are the same now as they were then. What's changed is
what portions of those the SGI chooses to cling to, what it has changed, and
what it has rejected. The fact that the Gakkai's departure from Shoshu
orthodoxy was not done honestly and "in the light of day" has muddied the waters
further and made things much more confusing for sincere members who, loving
their organization, want to embrace its doctrine. That that doctrine is a
moving target and changes depending on when it's repeated and/or applied, and by
whom, causes problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, as you say, that's a long discussion which I have come
to grips with long since. Others will do what they must with it, and about it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Andy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kathy
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Andy Hanlen
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:12 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [SGI] Re: a soul?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Claire Cruise wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > << Although I was rigorously schooled in both Nichiren Shoshu
and Soka
> > > > > > > > > Gakkai since the time I was an infant, it is the spirit and
"soul" of Josei
> > > > > > > > > Toda that I most identify with. >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That explains why you have such a shallow and erroneous
understanding of the
> > > > > > > > > Lotus Sutra and Buddhism in general, Claire. Marvelous as Mr.
Toda was in
> > > > > > > > > heart and spirit, he was woefully misguided in his adherence
to and support
> > > > > > > > > of strict Nichiren Shoshu orthodoxy. If that's your guide as
well, you are
> > > > > > > > > missing a lot of fundamental Buddhism 101. Time to broaden
your horizons a
> > > > > > > > > bit. No time like the present.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Andy
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like I have said before, Chris, there are many people who
have died and
> > > > > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > > back to life, ME INCLUDED. Regardless of whatever someone
who hasn't had
> > > > > > > > > > the experience of dying thinks, I know without a doubt what
will happen to
> > > > > > > > > > me when I die.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That's also how I know for myself that reincarnation is
indeed real.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nichiren's writings clearly reveal that enlightenment is
always a gradual
> > > > > > > > > > process; that's why his writings changed over time. The
concept of
> > > > > > > > > > reincarnation was very prevalent in his era, thought, so I
don't think he
> > > > > > > > > > ever quite questioned the concept of reincarnation, itself,
even if at one
> > > > > > > > > > time he was still somewhat unsure about his identity as the
sole Original,
> > > > > > > > > > True Buddha. Enlightenment is always a never-ending process;
never will
> > > > > > > > > > there ever be any such thing as "complete enlightenment."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To be clear, though, I never claimed to consider Nichiren to
be anyone
> > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > than the reincarnation of Jogyo/Bodhisattva Superior
Practices: the sole
> > > > > > > > > > Leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. It was, IS, solely
that person
> > > > > > > > > > whom Shakyamuni Buddha ("the Buddha") hands the mission of
worldwide
> > > > > > > > > > Kosen-rufu. Shakyamuni makes it abundantly clear in his
Lotus Sutra that
> > > > > > > > > > Bodhisattva Superior Practices is the sole heir of this
mission that only
> > > > > > > > > > the Original, True Buddha (Shakyamuni's eternal
teacher/mentor from "Time
> > > > > > > > > > Without Beginning") can accomplish in this most corrupt
Latter Day of the
> > > > > > > > > > Law.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Shakyamuni was the Buddha of the pure Former Day of the Law.
He paved the
> > > > > > > > > > way for Nichiren (a.k.a. Bodhisattva Superior Practices):
the Buddha of
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > most corrupt Latter Day of the Law. In the Lotus Sutra --
which I do not
> > > > > > > > > > have handy due to being on the road -- Shakyamuni indicates
that it is his
> > > > > > > > > > teacher from the eternal past, referred to by Buddhist
scholars as "The
> > > > > > > > > > Original, True Buddha," who is the only "life entity" up to
the task of
> > > > > > > > > > worldwide Kosen-rufu in the Latter Day of the Law: a time
when all of
> > > > > > > > > > Shakyamuni's teachings have lost their effectiveness...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ... as is so obvious here at Soka Gakkai Unofficial!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Although I was rigorously schooled in both Nichiren Shoshu
and Soka Gakkai
> > > > > > > > > > since the time I was an infant, it is the spirit and "soul"
of Josei Toda
> > > > > > > > > > that I most identify with.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Claire Cruise
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Christopher H. Holte
<chris_holte@
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:SokaGakkaiUnofficial%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > <SokaGakkaiUnofficial%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > > "clairecruiseisamerica" <clairecruise@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, so all of Nichiren's talk of reincarnation has
absolutely no
> > > > > > > > > > > > validity whatsoever?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nichiren expresses doubt about reincarnation at times.
Again, the
> > > > > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > > > > > is abstract and unfalsifiable. Who knows? It takes a bit
of humility to
> > > > > > > > > > > admit that something is beyond one's ken. All we have is
imagination, no
> > > > > > > > > way
> > > > > > > > > > > to verify. Talking about past lives is a way to tell a
story about how
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > live, how not to live, and what happens with various
scenarios.
> > > > > > > > > Convention
> > > > > > > > > > > says those stories are true. Hail Mary Mother of Jesus....
Do we
> > > > > > > > > believe, or
> > > > > > > > > > > do we reach partial enlightenment, or do we realistically
believe and
> > > > > > > > > reach
> > > > > > > > > > > complete enlightenment. Once one understands the value of
such stories
> > > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > one can distinguish fact from fiction and learn from both.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > All Nichiren Buddhists consider Nichiren Daishonin to be
the sole
> > > > > > > > > > > > original, true Buddha as well as the sole leader of the
> > > > > > > > > > > > Bodhisattvas of the Earth whom Shakyamuni Buddha
entrusted with
> > > > > > > > > > > > the mission of worldwide Kosen-rufu (world peace)...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Not exactly. Toda noted in his human revolution that many
Nichiren
> > > > > > > > > > > Buddhists consider Nichiren the incarnation of the leader
of the
> > > > > > > > > > > Bodhisattvas of the Earth, but don't topple the Shakyamuni
of the 16th
> > > > > > > > > > > chapter or identify him directly with Nichiren.
Considering how he talks
> > > > > > > > > > > about Shakyamuni, this is more consistant with what
Nichiren actually
> > > > > > > > > says
> > > > > > > > > > > than the notion "he said Shakyamuni but meant himself."
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The identifying of Nichiren with the Shakyamuni of the
sixteenth chapter
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > the innovation of a Nichiren Shoshu priest from the
sixteenth century
> > > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > Buddhism was adjusting to the rise of the Tokugawas,
authoritarian
> > > > > > > > > > > centralized government, and the successful attack on and
destruction of
> > > > > > > > > > > Nichirenism in Kyoto where it had had a strong base.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nichikan was a former samurai who took a samurai attitude
towards
> > > > > > > > > Buddhism
> > > > > > > > > > > (a good thing) and revived older doctrines and legends of
Nichiren
> > > > > > > > > Shoshu to
> > > > > > > > > > > try to revive the place (Taisekiji). He's the one who
dusted off the Dai
> > > > > > > > > > > Gohonzon, Nitcho's concepts, and made it the center of the
place, and
> > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > > initiated the Shingon/Catholic-like notions of heritage
from priest to
> > > > > > > > > > > priest despite (or because of) having to deal with family
ownership
> > > > > > > > > issues
> > > > > > > > > > > with the position of the Chief Priests. The Dai-Gohonzon
became like the
> > > > > > > > > pun
> > > > > > > > > > > of Peter's name.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing wrong with the notion that someone so
incarnated the
> > > > > > > > > > > attributes and principles of a pure concept that they can
be identified
> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > the incarnations (reincarnations) of the name identified
with that
> > > > > > > > > concept.
> > > > > > > > > > > However, it's not exactly what Nichiren actually said, and
so it's
> > > > > > > > > > > Nichikan's teaching.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I kind of like it, but I also like Shakyamuni's precept to
"work out
> > > > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > > own salvation" and other humble words attributed to him,
and I like
> > > > > > > > > aspects
> > > > > > > > > > > of most religions and religious leaders whether they
succeeded in their
> > > > > > > > > > > mission as teacher or failed.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Disciples borrow authority when they don the robe of a
Buddha. They
> > > > > > > > > either
> > > > > > > > > > > acquire the attributes associated with that role, or they
fail. They
> > > > > > > > > either
> > > > > > > > > > > clearly receive, understand, act on, and teach the
attributes, methods
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > concepts necessary to reach Buddhahood -- or they fail. If
the judge of
> > > > > > > > > > > Buddhism is reaching enlightenment, Nichiren appears to
have created a
> > > > > > > > > nice
> > > > > > > > > > > way to do it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The faith of Nichirenists is that Nichiren did
(accomplished) these
> > > > > > > > > things
> > > > > > > > > > > and was a good disciple of the Buddha. There is no need to
overthrow the
> > > > > > > > > > > concept of an eternal, ever-teaching, "diamond body"
Buddha to advance
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > teaching -- but it works fine among people who need to
make Buddhism
> > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > own and have trouble relating to an Indian Prince named
Shakyamuni. This
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > the same argument that new age people use to justify
reifying, deifying
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > mythologizing their high priests or other fearless
leaders, however. So
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > don't buy it for myself.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > IN THE LOTUS SUTRA.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Even the first Buddha recorded in history here on earth
some 2600
> > > > > > > > > years
> > > > > > > > > > > ago, Shakyamuni Buddha ("the Buddha"), speaks about his
many past
> > > > > > > > > > > lifetimes... in HIS Lotus Sutra.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What form of Buddhism are you practicing?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Claire Cruise
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:SokaGakkaiUnofficial%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > <SokaGakkaiUnofficial%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > > brightlightcity <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Well, Buddhism does speak about the concept of
reincarnation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Buddhism may speak about reincarnation. But the Buddha
never did. It
> > > > > > > > > > > may seem like a small point. However, the words we use are
important
> > > > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > > they convey meaning and the meaning of "reincarnation" is
not quite
> > > > > > > > > correct
> > > > > > > > > > > when it come to the subject of the cycle of birth and
death.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > According to Dictionary.com, reincarnation refers to
the belief that
> > > > > > > > > > > the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in
another body or
> > > > > > > > > > > form; rebirth of the soul in a new body; a new incarnation
or
> > > > > > > > > embodiment, as
> > > > > > > > > > > of a person.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no soul or self to be reborn. When life
ceases, karmic
> > > > > > > > > energy
> > > > > > > > > > > re-materializes or recycles itself in another form. The
best we can
> > > > > > > > > describe
> > > > > > > > > > > this is as psycho-physical phenomena. We relate it to
consciousness. We
> > > > > > > > > call
> > > > > > > > > > > it a continuum of consciousness.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically, the Buddhist term is samtana (or
santana). Meaning a
> > > > > > > > > flux
> > > > > > > > > > > or a continuity. Robert Thurman says that "Sanskrit
samtana refers to
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > energy-continuity of a living being that proceeds from
moment to moment
> > > > > > > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > > > life and from life to life. . ."
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The uninterrupted flux or continuity of
psycho-physical phenomenon,
> > > > > > > > > > > conditioned by causes and conditions is what passes
through the cycle of
> > > > > > > > > > > birth and death. It is not anything that is permanent or
unchangeable.
> > > > > > > > > It is
> > > > > > > > > > > not a self, soul, essence, personality or ego.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good, but not perfect, books to read on this subject:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Unlocking the Mysteries of Birth and Death - Daisaku
Ikeda
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying - Sogyal Rinpoche
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:SokaGakkaiUnofficial%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > <SokaGakkaiUnofficial%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > > Claire Cruise <clairecruise@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Buddhism does speak about the concept of
reincarnation. What
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > take on that one, Andy?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Claire Cruise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Andy Hanlen
<andyhanlen1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy Sain wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << a soul,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I am tired of kidding you about this one, if you
don't think
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > soul. Who the heck are you, some embodiment of the
Atman or no
> > > > > > > > > one?
> > > > > > > > > > > You seem
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn particular to me.) >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you mean some kind of entity that
carries on, or
> > > > > > > > > is,
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual after physical life has ceased. Is that
fair to say?
> > > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > so, how
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is that done? What is it that this thing consists
of? It's not
> > > > > > > > > > > matter,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > right? Is it energy? If so, what kind? Where can
this be seen,
> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > measured,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or documented? Where is this "soul" stored?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I ask in all seriousness, because, as far as I
know, Buddhism
> > > > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > entertain this concept. Let me (all of us) know
your thoughts
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > evidence,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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removed]
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