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Reply | Forward Message #96074 of 98494 |
Good and Evil Demons cause death..."Soka Gakkai Buddha."[SGI] Re: a soul?

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp" <djgropp@...> wrote:
>
> "The Entrustment and Other Chapters"
>
> There are two kinds of demons, good and evil. Good demons feed upon enemies of
the Lotus Sutra, while evil demons feed upon the sutra's votaries. How should we
interpret the great epidemics that have spread throughout Japan both this year
and last? From one viewpoint, they are the work of good demons who are devouring
enemies of the Lotus Sutra with the approval of Brahma, Shakra, the gods of the
sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings. Yet from another view, they are the
work of evil demons who are feeding upon the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra at
the urging of the devil king of the sixth heaven. Good demons devouring enemies
of the Lotus Sutra are like government soldiers punishing enemies of the ruler.
But evil demons eating votaries of the Lotus Sutra are like robbers and night
thieves murdering government soldiers.
>
> For example, when Buddhism was brought to Japan, the Chief Minister Mononobe
no Moriya and others who opposed it were struck down by epidemics, but the Great
Minister Soga no Umako and others [who espoused Buddhism] also fell ill. Three
successive emperors, Kimmei, Bidatsu, and Yomei, believed in Buddhism and the
Thus Come One Shakyamuni in their hearts, but outwardly honored the Sun Goddess
and the Kumano shrines, abiding by the traditional rites of the nation. Because
their faith in the Buddha and his teachings was weak, while their faith in the
gods was strong, these three rulers were pulled by the stronger influence and
succumbed to smallpox epidemics.
>
> In light of these examples, you should ponder the two kinds of demons
mentioned above, as well as the reasons why epidemics spread among the people of
the world today and why some among my followers also fall ill and perish. It
follows on the one hand that those who commit their lives for the sake of faith
will not fall ill, or that, even if they should fall ill, they will recover. On
the other hand, if they encounter great evil demons, they may be deprived of
their lives.
> (WND, 912)
>
>

This may all be valid, at least if we accept that demons are
not literally supernatural beings which hand out punishment
and rewards to humans. Maybe they could be seen as some kind
of symbolic representation of the good and bad consequences
of our actions. I have no idea whether Nichiren saw them
this way, or as actual demons.

However we are still left with a circular argument. If
something bad happens to a votary of the Lotus Sutra it is
the action of a bad demon, if it happens to a non-votary it
is the action of a good demon. Since the consequence, illness
or death, is the same in both cases, the only way to decide
which type of demon it was is to figure out whether the
person getting ill is good or bad.

I have personal knowledge of two SGI members who died of
horrible illnesses, but went through it with tremendous
courage and dignity. I'll be thinking of them when my time
comes. I just think it would be absurd for me to conclude
that this is always the case, or that members of another
group whose doctrines I disagree with have generally
different experiences.

I'm just expressing the opinion that it's kind of futile
and self destructive to try judging other people this way,
and it's even more ridiculous to do it on a group
affiliation basis based on religious doctrine. Nichiren
made some of these judgements, but about individuals. And
he knew their individual histories, and he quoted actual
specific actions they had taken personally to lead to the
consequences they suffered.

Mick




Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:57 pm

sunderlandmick
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Message #96074 of 98494 |
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That's it, VT, You've solved my problem.  I'm giving up this quasi-vot biz and choosing to be a demon.  As for a "middle way demon" I've been an 'addled...
Kathy Sain
kathysain
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Jul 11, 2009
12:02 am

... This may all be valid, at least if we accept that demons are not literally supernatural beings which hand out punishment and rewards to humans. Maybe they...
sunderlandmick
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Jul 11, 2009
6:58 pm

I was using it in it's figurative sense. I haven't had to deal with literal nits since High School.... :-))...
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 9, 2009
4:02 pm

... It's a paraphrase of something in the Gosho Kathy. Sorry. Nichiren compared confused or counterfeit priests to cats; always stalking donors, always...
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 9, 2009
4:05 pm

... Kathy: Well, I was referring to the Law of Cause and Effect, that is, everything one thinks, one says, one does engenders specific effects. But, I have...
Kathy Sain
kathysain
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Jul 9, 2009
6:36 pm

Sorry Katgirl, I'm not saying anything that seems discouraging to me. I've had dreams where I've been warned of affairs. When I followed the advise in those...
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 6, 2009
7:02 am

... If I saw a burning Bush I'd have to check in with a psychiatric institution anyway. In the age we live in all we can do is to do our best to perceive, and...
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 5, 2009
9:28 pm

Claire, I agree with a lot of what BrightLightCity wrote (below) although I am hardly an expert, not would I claim certainty on this issue. I am pretty...
Andy Hanlen
andyhanlen2000
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Jun 30, 2009
3:51 am

... Haven't read all the Pali sutras (Hinayana) nor am I especially well-versed in them. So I only know offhand of one instance of the Buddha remembering past...
brightlightcity
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Jun 30, 2009
7:21 am

Andy, I think that both you and brightlightcity need to read the Lotus Sutra: the life masterpiece of Shakyamuni Buddha ("The Buddha") which is the core of all...
Claire Cruise
clairecruise...
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Jun 30, 2009
4:10 pm

Claire, ... Which comes across as: "Only persons having the same interpretation of the Lotus and gosho as me can 'rightly' call themselves Nichiren Buddhists."...
verrytesty
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Jun 30, 2009
5:25 pm

verrytesty, I was forced to study all the sutras from a very early age. Thus, it is only natural that the only sutra I truly care about is the only one that...
Claire Cruise
clairecruise...
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Jul 1, 2009
4:29 pm

Claire, Though one can be forced to sit with material in hand one cannot be forced to understand. Obviously you did not read in depth "zillions" so is it...
verrytesty
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Jul 1, 2009
5:21 pm

... Thanks Mr. Testy, you stated what I was feeling but didn't want to come out and say. I know, as an ex-SGI member who still takes Nichiren, the Lotus and...
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 1, 2009
4:29 pm

... Nobody will dispute that the Lotus is the core of Buddhist philosophy. But I don't think it is fair to accuse Andy or Brightlight city of not reading it....
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 1, 2009
4:25 pm

Claire Cruise wrote: << Andy, I think that both you and brightlightcity need to read the Lotus Sutra: the life masterpiece of Shakyamuni Buddha ("The Buddha")...
Andy Hanlen
andyhanlen2000
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Jul 1, 2009
4:33 pm

Claire, you write that you were "rigorously schooled in both Nichiren Shoshu and Soka Gakkai since the time I was an infant" and at the same time you were...
brightlightcity
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Jul 1, 2009
6:31 pm

<<real empirical evidence, as opposed to subjective and experiential evidence [of a 'soul']>> When we can't describe empirically what is happening to us, we...
Don Gropp
djgropp
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Jul 1, 2009
2:50 pm

Are you a Buddha, VT? Kathy ... From: verrytesty <verrytesty@...> Subject: Re: [SGI] a soul? To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June...
Kathy Sain
kathysain
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Jun 30, 2009
5:59 pm

Everyone is a Buddha, or potential Buddha. I think an interesting question is why folks get so touchy (or angry, as VT describes it) when they hear that it is...
brightlightcity
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Jun 30, 2009
6:21 pm

... (or angry, as VT describes it) when they hear that it is likely that the Buddha did not teach the Lotus Sutra directly? ... I first heard about the origins...
sunderlandmick
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Jun 30, 2009
7:54 pm

... little I had left. On behalf of all emptiness guys throughout the universe, I apologize for causing you any suffering. However, I would disagree that we...
brightlightcity
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Jun 30, 2009
8:48 pm

"But then the emptiness guys want to come along and take away what little I had left." There is a country gold record in that line. ;>> ... for causing you any...
verrytesty
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Jun 30, 2009
10:53 pm

Whether we like it or not, the historical Shakyamuni of the Nikayas and Agamas, did teach conditioned rebirth within samsara. He also taught an-atman; no self,...
Robin Beck
rrobinrb2000
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Jul 1, 2009
6:44 am

Robin, ... This sounds like it might be another way of stating what the Abhidharma call sense sphere consciousness, fine material consciousness and immaterial...
verrytesty
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Jul 1, 2009
3:58 pm

... Yes, The Form Comcentration Meditations are a means of accessing these heavens, also called Brahma Heavens. Cultivating the Brahma-Vihara is another way. ...
Robin Beck
rrobinrb2000
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Jul 3, 2009
2:21 am

... YES, very soulful. Liked it! CMC...
camoonchild
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Jul 1, 2009
10:32 am

I was happy in my bottle, half full up on my table. I drank down half of it and then stared at it. Figured I'd save the rest, for when I was able. Sitting...
Christopher H. Holte
chris_holte
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Jul 1, 2009
10:38 pm

I think Mick's on to something really big here, for all of us. Namely what is left? After the Dai-Gohonzon turns out to be a forgery, after the Nikko...
steve_is_a_buddha
steve_is_a_b...
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Jul 1, 2009
9:53 am

Steve, ... The point you make about years of exertions and "meager" results is a good one. As you indicate life isn't so much about winning as it is more of a...
verrytesty
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Jul 1, 2009
4:57 pm
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