You can also register with MNSBAR.

John Price
jprice@...



On Oct 5, 2009, at 7:03 AM, sarahjayne.potter wrote:

I found that, oddly enough, the International Dairy Goat Registry,
http://www.goat-idgr.com/
   is now registering Soay.  They even have different grades besides
just American and British so that you can begin registering and
keeping track of your flock even if not all of their information is
known for some reason.  And, by breeding to registered animals you can
gradually upgrade your flock.  Hope that helps!  Of course, the Open
Flockbook is GREAT!  And we all appreiciate what they are doing there
so much.  I am currently working on getting all of my sheep registered
both places.

Sarah

--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, "kimilkiw" <kimilkiw@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,  I've just joined your organization.  My husband Ted and I live
> just south east of Beaumont, AB.  We purchased a ram and 3 ewes,
> ages 5-6 years, 1,1/2 years, and 5 months.  I would appreciate any
> information you may wish to provide to me.  I would also appreciate
> info on dna testing, and registration of my new flock.  Thank you -
> Kim
>




------------------------------------

Soay Sheep - a primitive and beautiful breed. Visit SoaySheepBreeders.com
   for more information.Yahoo! Groups Links

I registered with MNSBAR for the previous 2 years just because I felt it was the
best I could do, and most of my foundation stock was already registered with
them. I did not register my lambs this year with them, but did provide the
documentation they require to all my buyers so they could register if they
wished to do so.

I think we need a Soay-only registry, but I am not interested in the expense of
mandatory DNA testing. I think it could be a great optional service, but not one
I would probably take advantage of for every breeding sheep. But, then, maybe if
not all the sheep were DNA tested it wouldn't be all that useful.

All I know is that I contacted SOA several times to inquire about registering my
flock, and never once got a response. So I gave up on them permanently. A
registry that only selectively processes some registrations and ignores others
is completely useless.

I don't think MNSBAR really provides much that the Open Flockbook doesn't
provide, but I do agree that something like what SOA was founded to do is still
needed. But how do you prevent it from being a short-term registry and then
disappearing like SOA did?

-Elizabeth


--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, marrstree@... wrote:
>
> I might point out to those now considering IDGR and MNSBAR registries that
> both existed and were used by NA Soay enthusiasts in the "early years" and
> both were deemed to "come up short", hence the creation of SOA.

----- Original Message -----

From: sarahjayne.potter

To: SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:03 AM

Subject: [SoaySheepBreeders] Re: hi

 

I found that, oddly enough, the International Dairy Goat Registry, http://www.goat-idgr.com/ is now registering Soay. They even have different grades besides just American and British so that you can begin registering and keeping track of your flock even if not all of their information is known for some reason. And, by breeding to registered animals you can gradually upgrade your flock. Hope that helps! Of course, the Open Flockbook is GREAT! And we all appreiciate what they are doing there so much. I am currently working on getting all of my sheep registered both places.

Sarah

--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, "kimilkiw" <kimilkiw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I've just joined your organization. My husband Ted and I live just south east of Beaumont, AB. We purchased a ram and 3 ewes, ages 5-6 years, 1,1/2 years, and 5 months. I would appreciate any information you may wish to provide to me. I would also appreciate info on dna testing, and registration of my new flock. Thank you - Kim
>

It has been discussed to death in the past. I personally don't know why we need
to start a new registry. There is a wealth of information on the OFP. The OFP
has done a fantastic job of maintaining the records and issuing certificates all
for FREE. What more could you want? We should be paying the Weaver's for the job
they have done.
What do you find lacking in the OFP? Maybe if the Weaver's were receiving
payment for their services they could provide it.

Vicki
Carmel Valley Soay



> As George Santayana noted: "Those who cannot remember the past are
> condemned to repeat it."
>
> Gevan
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/5/2009 9:58:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> jprice@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> You can also register with MNSBAR.
>
> John Price
> _jprice@..._ (mailto:jprice@...)
>
> On Oct 5,  2009, at 7:03 AM, sarahjayne.potter wrote:
>
> I found that, oddly enough,  the International Dairy Goat Registry,
> _http://www.goat-http://ww_ (http://www.goat-idgr.com/)
> is now  registering Soay. They even have different grades besides
> just American  and British so that you can begin registering and
> keeping track of your  flock even if not all of their information is
> known for some reason. And,  by breeding to registered animals you can
> gradually upgrade your flock.  Hope that helps! Of course, the Open
> Flockbook is GREAT! And we all  appreiciate what they are doing there
> so much. I am currently working on  getting all of my sheep registered
> both places.
>
> Sarah
>
> --- In  _SoaySheepBreeders@SoaySheepBreSoa_
> (mailto:SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com) ,  "kimilkiw" <kimilkiw@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I've just  joined your organization. My husband Ted and I live
> > just south east  of Beaumont, AB. We purchased a ram and 3 ewes,
> > ages 5-6 years, 1,1/2  years, and 5 months. I would appreciate any
> > information you may wish  to provide to me. I would also appreciate
> > info on dna testing, and  registration of my new flock. Thank you -
> >  Kim
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Soay  Sheep - a primitive and beautiful breed. Visit SoaySheepBreeders.Soay
>
> for more information.for more informatio
>

If everyone with Soay is participating in the Scrapie program (which they should
be) each animal does have a unique number - The premise ID and the animal
number. Since this number has to be affixed to the animal in a irremovable way,
would this number not work? OFP does list that number on the Certificate, if you
give it to them.
Vicki
Carmel Valley Soay

--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, Heirloom Heritage Farms
<heirloomheritagefarms@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm not saying at all that Steve & Priscilla aren't doing a good job... I
had even emailed with her exactly a year ago (I still have the email)
and asked Priscilla why don't they just add a number to the certificates for
each sheep.  She said it had been brought up, but they aren't sure they want to
do that for several reasons to include possible appearance of conflict of
interest.  For all intents and purposes, the OFP was/is a "private" project.
>
> A lot may have happened in a year, and maybe they might be more open to
instituting the OFP into a "new" registry.  IMO, the only thing missing is a
unique number as a "registration" number.
>
> D
>
> Dawn Turbyfill
> Heirloom Heritage Farms
> Spanaway, WA  98387
> 360-271-4690
> www.heirloomheritagefarms.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vloca2000" <vloca@...>
> To: SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 8:11:43 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: [SoaySheepBreeders] Re: Soay Registry
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> It has been discussed to death in the past. I personally don't know why we
need to start a new registry. There is a wealth of information on the OFP. The
OFP has done a fantastic job of maintaining the records and issuing certificates
all for FREE. What more could you want? We should be paying the Weaver's for the
job they have done.
> What do you find lacking in the OFP? Maybe if the Weaver's were receiving
payment for their services they could provide it.
>
> Vicki
> Carmel Valley Soay
>
> > As George Santayana noted: "Those who cannot remember the past are
> > condemned to repeat it."
> >
> > Gevan
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/5/2009 9:58:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> > jprice@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You can also register with MNSBAR.
> >
> > John Price
> > _jprice@_ (mailto:jprice@)
> >
> > On Oct 5, 2009, at 7:03 AM, sarahjayne.potter wrote:
> >
> > I found that, oddly enough, the International Dairy Goat Registry,
> > _ http://www.goat-http://ww_ ( http://www.goat-idgr.com/ )
> > is now registering Soay. They even have different grades besides
> > just American and British so that you can begin registering and
> > keeping track of your flock even if not all of their information is
> > known for some reason. And, by breeding to registered animals you can
> > gradually upgrade your flock. Hope that helps! Of course, the Open
> > Flockbook is GREAT! And we all appreiciate what they are doing there
> > so much. I am currently working on getting all of my sheep registered
> > both places.
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > --- In _SoaySheepBreeders@SoaySheepBreSoa_
> > (mailto: SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com ) , "kimilkiw" <kimilkiw@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, I've just joined your organization. My husband Ted and I live
> > > just south east of Beaumont, AB. We purchased a ram and 3 ewes,
> > > ages 5-6 years, 1,1/2 years, and 5 months. I would appreciate any
> > > information you may wish to provide to me. I would also appreciate
> > > info on dna testing, and registration of my new flock. Thank you -
> > > Kim
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Soay Sheep - a primitive and beautiful breed. Visit SoaySheepBreeders.Soay
> >
> > for more information.for more informatio
> >
>

[this is a long message - sorry]

Like everyone else, Steve and I are following the latest discussion of "registration" with interest and thought it might be useful to summarize again where we view the Open Flockbook Project's place in the discussion.   This is basically the message we sent to Dawn last October when she inquired about adding registration numbers.

Lots of breeders use the OFP as their registration system, both for their own breeding programs and in their sales efforts, using both the printed certificates and the on-line pedigrees to show their customers what the animal-to-be-bought has in the way of ancestors.  Steve purposely does not purport to make any other form of judgment about what's a "real" Soay or a "good" Soay.  There are so many different opinions about what is "good" and what is "real" in Soay.  He wants people to be able to see all the reported ancestors and decide for themselves, depending on their breeding goals, their own notions of what looks good, and their pocketbooks, what they want to purchase and what they want to breed.  For example, does it matter to a buyer whether the Soay is a Full British, i.e., exclusively descended from the Athelstan importation in 1990, and able to be registered with the RBST?  Does it matter to a buyer whether a particular animal's father is known?  Does it matter how many generations in the pedigree are known?  People are all over the map on this one.  The OFP pedigrees list the known data about ancestors without passing judgment on them. 

From time to time Steve has gotten requests to add a unique "registration" number to each Soay in the database.  At this point, people's scrapie tags and other identification systems serve to help keep Soay with the same name separate, but that's all.  Steve has thought about adding unique numbers but so far it has not seemed to be important enough to enough breeders for him to take the time to do the programming and alterations in the database that would be needed in order to have a reliable set of numbers.  Perhaps we should revisit this question.  We would like to hear from lots of breeders about whether they want this feature, what you hope it would accomplish, and what kind of numbering system you have in mind to accomplish your goals.   

Many of you followed the back and forth on the SSB listserv here several months ago about setting up a new breed organization or some new kind of registration system now that SOA is, to all intents and purposes, defunct.  As we read the postings, it seemed to us that opinions are so varied, including people who do not want Steve's "private" OFP to be a formal registry because of various fears, mostly centering around his dual role as the creator of the OFP and an active breeder -- that we decided to just keep doing what we are doing as long as breeders find it useful and until a critical mass of breeders decide on what new system they want and have a plan for implementing it.

But, we always want input to make the OFP better.  For example, we have gotten a good suggestion for alerting users of the OFP that ownership information may be out of date because Steve does not always get notified of who the new owners are when people sell their Soay.  Steve is about to upload a big chunk of new sheep listings and updated info and when he does that, he will add the caution about out-of-date ownership listings.  This kind of suggestion is very much appreciated and we will do our best to keep improving the OFP and its usefulness to all Soay breeders and owners.  You all know where to find us!  Priscilla (and Steve) Weaver, ofp@...

Priscilla, I am amazed with what you and Steve have done so far with out asking
for any compensation.Your work is above and beyond words!

I am happy with the ear tag id number it links my sheep with the certificate to
prove identity, and no one questions it.
I don't know how anyone would keep track of who is who in their flock with out
an ear tag, unless it is a small flock or each individual has unique markings or
they have no intention of having an animal change ownership.

Vicki
Carmel Valley Soay

I have to agree that we need a registry.  It is hard when you are selling
them-"oh yes, they are all pure bred, and registrable...if there was a
registry..."
I would like a and support a registry for sure, and would be willing to
volunteer some time as well.
What do you have to do to create a registry int he US? -or, which state would it
be easiest to do it in?  Canada it is very difficult.
Did anyone have a copy of the SOA bylaws, and the bylaws of another association
that were well done?  I could go over them.
Carla

> It sounds like customer service and promptness was the main problem... I know
that was my issue with them also.  They take your money (although it took
forever for them to cash my membership check), and then it's as if they vanished
off the face of the earth.  And then a bunch of goofy rules.......
>
>
>
> I agree that DNA testing is really not needed for the Soays...... not many
registries use it; ARI is one, but there is a lot of $$$ involved in the alpaca
breeding stock and varification of parentage is crucial.
>
>
>
> I agree, a Soay only registry is needed, but it needs to be kept up, and
quick in response.  People have a lot going on, and messing with a registry
that could care less about the people trying to get their paperwork squared
away, is not the way to keep breeders using the service.
>
> Dawn Turbyfill
> Heirloom Heritage Farms
> Spanaway, WA  98387
> 360-271-4690
> www.heirloomheritagefarms.com
>
>

I certainly have no problem with using OFP as a registry, the service that Steve
and Priscilla provide is exemplary, I was just under the impression, that that
was not an option.  As Priscilla stated in her post, they are not doing any
monitoring of type or "quality" of the stock that is registered, but I see in
the horse world there are only about two registries that do that anyhow.  I
would be more than happy to pay for the service of OFP and would be happy to
have that as a recognized registry, it would sure save a pile of work, and I
know that I have already used the online data base extensively as I was choosing
the animals that I imported last year as well as the ones that I am looking at
for next year.  I can't imagine not having the data base, and cure that it is
not mandatory for all breeds, it would make it much easier to buy our border
collies if we had that!
Tag numbers for registration number are not a bad idea.  They can be lost, but
the number could be cross referenced or updated then. In Canada it is not
mandatory to tag your sheep until they leave the farm, but if you are going to
the work to register an animal, tagging them is not a big issue.  I can
understand not wanting to have government meddling in your business, but I
believe with the US voluntary scrapie program all you do is put tags in, there
are no requirements of vet inspections or anything to that nature is there? 
Here there is not for basic tagging.
C

--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, "Chickie" <chickie74@...> wrote:
>
>  I can understand not wanting to have government meddling in your business,
but I believe with the US voluntary scrapie program all you do is put tags in,
there are no requirements of vet inspections or anything to that nature is
there?  Here there is not for basic tagging.
> C
>
Actually, the voluntary program does require a yearly vet inspection. I actually
appreciate the free visit from the vet each year. He's always happy to answer
general questions for me.

Yes, that sounds like a pain in the tushie. I was only responding about the US
program. It is entirely cost-free for us. Inspections are free. Tags are free.
If a necropsy needs to be done on a dead animal who showed Scrapie symptoms,
that's free too.

In theory (although there is no enforcement currently) anybody not in the
voluntary program must be in the mandatory program instead. There is less
paperwork involved, and no annual inspections. I think maybe you have to buy
your own ear tags, too.

Although I'm in the voluntary program, I don't take it TOO seriously. I normally
wouldn't buy a ewe from a farm that isn't in the program, but if it's a sheep I
really really want, I'll do it anyway. I just bought one last week. Now my
"status date" will have to be reset to the day I brought in new ewe (males don't
affect status dates). But this sheep was worth it because she was a perfect fit
for our breeding program.

-Elizabeth

--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, RIO BATES <riobates@...> wrote:

> Our "voluntary" program (in Canada), which is required for anyone who wants to
import sheep or goats (ewes or does), requires that we pay to have our vet out
for an annual farm visit...

Good description Rio.  I am in default of my certification right now because the
vet lives an hour from here and my sheep are in a brush section of land where I
can not catch them to have a vet inspect them.  And, In Canada, regardless, we
buy our own tags, cattle and sheep.  For every animal we have to pay a check off
fee (that goes to Alberta Lamb) of $1.50 per tag and the tags cost $3.50 for the
double tags that are mandatory for the scrapie program.  Of the 5 different tags
that we can use (they are not numbered according to farm like in the US), they
range in price from $0.34 to that $3.50 with a couple falling about the $1.50
range.  Most meat lambs and rams obviously get the cheapest tags, ewes get
somewhere in between depending on your managment program I have found.
I won't even delve into the sacrificial lamb issue.  Unlike Rio, I do not have
anyone that I can kill, as the only ones that I have that are old enough are my
breeding ewes and my imported breeding stock, and they are sure as hell not
getting butchered.  I did talk to the lady at Scrapie Canada and she did say
that they are looking into some guidelines for the rare breeds so that we might
not have to slaughter if we don't have one to butcher.  If not, I am out of the
program and can not import ewes etc.  I think the other big risk, like Elizabeth
stated is that you can not bring an animal in with a priority less than yours,
or it reduces your status back to day one-or, you have a closed flock with no
new genetics, with the exception of rams.
I like the US tags, I was even able to trace the farm of origin on an old ewe
that I bought-she is 9 and still had her original tags in, and the 3 Canadian
tags....she looks like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree.
Anyhow, I tag all my sheep regardless, so in the debate of using those numbers
for regi-numbers, I think that is fine.
Carla

My name is Rowan, I live in Northeast Ohio.  I am a handspinner and weaver, and
do a lot of demonstrations with the SCA and other historical re-creation groups.
I would very much like to buy some Soay fleece if anyone has any :).  I have
always been very drawn to and enjoy primitive breeds and this is one I haven't
had the opportunity to work with yet.

Rowan

I have some at the local mill.  I havent picked it up yet and as this is
my first go around with wool, I have no idea what it is worth.  It has a
lot of vm but  I am told otherwise it is VERY nice.

mystic wrote:
>
>
> My name is Rowan, I live in Northeast Ohio. I am a handspinner and
> weaver, and do a lot of demonstrations with the SCA and other
> historical re-creation groups. I would very much like to buy some Soay
> fleece if anyone has any :). I have always been very drawn to and
> enjoy primitive breeds and this is one I haven't had the opportunity
> to work with yet.
>
> Rowan
>
>

Hi!  What a coincidence - I just washed a batch this weekend.  I do have some
fleece collected  and available, some washed, some still "in the grease".  Do
you have a preference?

Laurie

--- In SoaySheepBreeders@yahoogroups.com, "mystic" <mysticmountainash@...>
wrote:
>
> My name is Rowan, I live in Northeast Ohio.  I am a handspinner and weaver,
and do a lot of demonstrations with the SCA and other historical re-creation
groups.  I would very much like to buy some Soay fleece if anyone has any :).  I
have always been very drawn to and enjoy primitive breeds and this is one I
haven't had the opportunity to work with yet.
>
> Rowan
>

Hi all -
I had let my flock into the backyard to graze what grass they could, and they
all went straight for the acorns.  They ate quite a few, when I vaguely
remembered reading in one of my books that acorns were toxic to sheep.  I looked
it up and sure enough, it said acorns were toxic to their liver, however they
more than likely wouldn't eat them.  Well, you would have thought they had found
the best treat in the world when they found those acorns!!  This was a week ago,
so obviously they are still doing fine.  But does anyone know if they are toxic?
And why did every one of my sheep eat them anyway?  They get plenty of grain,
hay and minerals, so, I'm not sure why they would eat something that would kill
them.

Thanks
Traci