A neat simple rubber powered model and instructions is at:

http://freeflight.org/beginers_corner/egg_crate/egg_crate.htm

This looks like a nice afternoon project for some youngster.  The
flying surfaces are from a couple of foam egg cartons or similar.
The motor stick is of balsa, but other wood could be substituted.
The Prop/bearing is a 'sleek streak' or similar unit.  The site has
full size patterns for the wing & tail parts.  Enjoy,

Al

Welcome to the new members that signed on today.  Many of you are
familiar names from the ffml list.  Glad to have you here.  We hope
that you will share your ideas and experiences on this board.  A
special welcome to a couple of the new members.

To Ramon: "Kumusta ka?"  How is it that I greet you in Tagalog, you
may wonder?  My "better half" aka wife comes from A little town
called Crossing, on the  south end of Laguna Bay where a branch
campus of UP is located.  She received her degree in agronomy there.
If you like, we'll try to talk to you offlist, later.  As I was
posting this message to the list, we noticed your model plans that
you posted, they look neat, how do they fly?

And welcome to David aka 'dannysoar'.  Good to see you here.  Sorry
that you had a hard time entering the 'door'.  Our internet opening
page is Yahoo; and we read our mail, clubs, groups online and all are
on Yahoo; so navigation is a breeze for us.

Some of you ask about attachments.  On another group there was some
discussion about virus transmittal via attachments.  And they came to
a consensus that stripping attachments from messages would help keep
down virus problem.  So we are doing the same here.

If you have pictures or plans that you want to share.  Upload them to
the pictures or folders area.  Some suggestions for posting
material:  If possible use jpegs or gifs of modest size(bigger takes
longer to load or to download), if you want to post something that
already is on the web just post the link.  Thanks and enjoy,

Al

Don, thanks for the tip.

Have just posted my beginner's plans to the "Files"
section.  Now we have lots of files!  Anyone
interested, please send comments.

Regards,

"Jun" in Manila, Philippines



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

The first of december I send Bill three boxes of GOOD HO railroad
stuff for trade on AIRPLANE STUFF!. About $700 worth and that was
just the start.

He has Trexler wheels that I cannot find anywhere else. And a lot of
other good stuff. it looks like he is involved in some of this
REPRODUCTION stuff himself.

I have two hobby shops in my area. I just buy the glue, paint, wood,
and magazine kind of stuff from them now. If I have to get them to
order it, I might just as well get it from PVHC and have it deliverd
to my door. Besides, he has GOOD STUFF you just cannot find anywhere
else.

Robbie

--- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "ernst19067" <jje4@e...> wrote:
> --- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "rottenrobbie0" <macklinbob@h...> wrote:
> > For those of you that are not familiar with Penn Valley Hobby
> Center,
> > check this link:
> >
> > http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/showme.htm
> >
> > This is a real old time hobby shop. They have model airplanes
that
> > have long been out of production.
> >
> > Robbie,
>
> I can second that opinion. I'm lucky enough to live w/in walking
> distance of Penn Valley, and it really is an Old Time shop. If you
> can picture an old house that has been converted into a store, then
> fill up every room with shelving, and stock the shelves full of FF
> kits, RC Kits, wood, plastic kits, trains, paints, rockets, etc..
> It's really dangerous living so close. The owners are wonderful
also.
>
> Also, the Scale Flight kits are very good. I've built several of
them
> and all are good flyers. Right now they happen to be having a sale -

> if you buy any 3 FF kits (over 5.95 ea.)you can take $1.00 off the
> price of each. It almost pays for shipping.
>
> enjoy,
>
> john

--- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "rottenrobbie0" <macklinbob@h...> wrote:
> For those of you that are not familiar with Penn Valley Hobby
Center,
> check this link:
>
> http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/showme.htm
>
> This is a real old time hobby shop. They have model airplanes that
> have long been out of production.
>
> Robbie,

I can second that opinion. I'm lucky enough to live w/in walking
distance of Penn Valley, and it really is an Old Time shop. If you
can picture an old house that has been converted into a store, then
fill up every room with shelving, and stock the shelves full of FF
kits, RC Kits, wood, plastic kits, trains, paints, rockets, etc..
It's really dangerous living so close. The owners are wonderful also.

Also, the Scale Flight kits are very good. I've built several of them
and all are good flyers. Right now they happen to be having a sale -
if you buy any 3 FF kits (over 5.95 ea.)you can take $1.00 off the
price of each. It almost pays for shipping.

enjoy,

john

It only took me TWO tries to get the door open.

Robbie

--- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "dannysoar" <dannysoar@a...> wrote:
> Gawd I hate Yahoo. I finally beat my way in here. Nothing to it.
> Wander around cyberspace 20 minutes, turn down a cheap Del, guess
what
> the f..k "your Yahoo ID"  might mean, type in a 16 Nonsense digit
> password and I get to see a very nice Wright glider plan. The
> electronic village at it's best. Oh well I didn't have to tell them
> the name of my dog this time.
>
> I mean I know the world is a tricky place nowadays and we must stop
> the the plague of unauthorized model airplane lookers. But there
must
> be a simpler way.
> dannysoar

For those of you that are not familiar with Penn Valley Hobby Center,
check this link:

http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/showme.htm

This is a real old time hobby shop. They have model airplanes that
have long been out of production.

Check Scale Flight Co. and Golden Age Reproductions. These are
reproductions of old favorites. I have two of the Golden Age kits and
I soon plan to order some more (I seem to be a KIT COLLECTOR). They
are very nice, have nice wood, and are not expensive. But they are
PRINT WOOD, not laser cut.

For a RBFF flyer, this seems to be a good place to shop.

Robbie

P-40 that weighs about a pound. Lessee, I guess about a 3cc diesel
should fly it :-)

Hey Jun, I don't think Yahoo does attachments. Maybe you can post
them to the files section...looks as if it could use some more
folders.

Cheers/Don Carron

Gawd I hate Yahoo. I finally beat my way in here. Nothing to it.
Wander around cyberspace 20 minutes, turn down a cheap Del, guess what
the f..k "your Yahoo ID"  might mean, type in a 16 Nonsense digit
password and I get to see a very nice Wright glider plan. The
electronic village at it's best. Oh well I didn't have to tell them
the name of my dog this time.

I mean I know the world is a tricky place nowadays and we must stop
the the plague of unauthorized model airplane lookers. But there must
be a simpler way.
dannysoar

Here's the last plan.  Would welcome comments on any
or all.

Regards,

"Jun in Manila, Philippines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Note: forwarded message attached.
Sorry, apparently plans didn't get attched the first
time.  Here they are, in two installments.

"Jun" in Manila, Philippines

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Note: forwarded message attached.
Hi Group:

As my initial contribution, here are the plans I
submitted to Bill Kuhl's (there's a guy you should
recruit!) Beginner's Model Design Contest.  Bill
wanted designs for a beginner's first model and second
model.  I did two of each: the two foam ones for the
first model and the two stick and tissue ones for the
second model.

Working on these made me recall how much fun these
very simple models are -- and what surprisingly good
performance you can get out of them with a little
tweaking!

Regards,

"Jun" in Manila, Philippines

In the Philippines, "Jun" is short for "Junior" --
unfortunately no longer true in my case as I'm 62.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Guys,

Hope you don't mind another member butting in. This club sounds like
a great idea. I'm always looking for help and these type of groups
are great for exchanging ideas and suggestions.

I'm currently trying to decide what WWI FF model to start, and its a
toss up between a scratch built Fokker D.VII or a DPC kit of a
Halberstadt CL.II. I'm also going to be building a Guillow's 500
series Focke-Wulf for the Cook-up on the Guillow's Builders Club site.

My building interests - I'm sure you are all dying to find out, are
for the stick and tissue rubber powered planes in the peanut to 20"
span range. Mostly in the WWI or Golden Age time periods. I also love
building the Dime Scale planes. Really a lot of fun.

Until next time...

john ernst

There are construction plans and article for a model of the 1903
Wright plane at the Windy Sock website:

http://www.flyingacesclub.net/alamo/plans.htm

The above link will bring you to plans list at Windy Sock.  The 1903
Wright is about 15 plans form the bottom of the list.
For 'simpleflyer' modelers, this list also contains many models that
are 'simpleflyers'.  Enjoy,

Al

Hi guys,

Just a reminder, tomorrow Dec 17 will be the 98th anniversary of the
Wright brothers first flight of a powered man carrying airplane at
Kitty Hawk in 1903.  Over the years, I've developed a personal custom
of flying some kind of aircraft on that day as a remembrance.  If any
one wants to follow suit, we've posted plans for a simplified version
of the Wright 1902 glider in the "files" section.  The original model
used wings from the American Junior #74 glider cut down to nine and
one half inches wingspan.  The plans are in the "Wright models"
folder.  To the best of my determination this model was designed and
drawn by S. Calhoun Smith and published in the Jan 1954 issue of Air
Trails.  S. C. Smith contributed an abundance of Illustrations,
plans, and articles to Air Trails and other magazines in the late
40's and throughout the 50's.  More info can be found about the
Wrights and the 1902 glider at:

http://www.wright-brothers.org/

Enjoy and happy flying,

Al

I don't remember ever breaking on of theise things.

But I do remember getting tired.

Robbie

The Stahl P-40 came from Gary Hunter's Plan Page.

http://www.theplanpage.com/

I am 67 and I now have enough plans from the page to last me many
years. I would like to try to make them all.

But then I also have a collection of Clevland plans. Currently a
1/16th scale P-6E is begging for attention. It is E-Power also.

Then there are the new Herr and Dumas kits.

I sure am glad I don;t have to go to work anymore. Just work on my
toys in the garage.

Robbie

Al,

Your description of simple RTP just reminded me of a toy once
sold at supermarkets, etc. It was a model plane made of soft
plastic with a frewheeling propeller. A length of thin string
was attached to the left wingtip and was used to swing the
model around as you describe. The spinning (in reverse) propeller
provided a pseudo-engine rattling noise. I recall playing with
one as a small child, perhaps my earliest modelling memory.
Hmmm, maybe a simple RTP model was the first model to spark a
lifetime interest!

Jeff

--- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "simpleflyer402" <alwings40@n...> wrote:
> Here is a suggestion for a quick and easy RTP model.  <snip>

Here is a suggestion for a quick and easy RTP model.  All that you
need are:  computer that can read PDF files, printer that can print
PDF files and can print to light cardstock, some letter size light
cardstock(index card or light bristolboard), pair of scissors, white
glue, and a length of thin sturdy string.  Go to this website:

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/private/j3cub/j3cub.htm

Download the file or directly print the model to cardstock(be sure
that your printer can handle cardstock!)  Cut out the model and
assemble it per the instructions.  Attach a length of string to the
wing tip and fly it.  Ballast will need to be added to the nose.
Safety warnings:  Be careful with scissors-don't cut yourself, Use
non-toxic glue for construction, such as Elmers white glue or
similar.  Be careful when flying the model.  Don't allow people or
other objects to be in the flight  path of your model.  BE AWARE -
BUILD & FLY SAFELY.

Al

We flew a couple of models RTP, also.  These were a Comet F4U and a
Comet F-86D, following the suggestions on the model plan.  These flew
quite well, especially the F-86D, as we used an old fishing pole to
swing this one.  Our first UC model was a Firebaby w/K&B 049 we
received for Christmas 1952.  This with about seven other 'ukie'
models we managed to crash in succession.  Usually caused by lines
fouling in the grass on takeoff or overcontrolling once airborne.
Around 1954, we met a couple of older 'ukie' modelers who took me
under their wing and taught me to fly successfully.  Except for a
couple feeble attempts at speed, and one combat match, and one 020
powered FF; we did not fly in contests.  Our flying was mostly flying
for fun with a variety of UC models and a few FF models.

You mention a P-40 model by Stahl.  Did you download this from the
internet?  Over the past few years we have managed to acquire a bunch
of magzines thru Ebay.  These together with a bunch that we have
saved over the years has resulted in a fairly comprehensive library
of FM, MAN and AT magazines of the era 1946 to the early 1960s.  In
my opinion this was the 'golden age' of model aviation.  These
magazines contain a number or rubber powered stick & tissue scale and
sport models by such designers:  Stahl, Struhl, Wherry, delGatto, and
others.  Many of the models were published as full size plans or
gridded for easy enlargement with full size formers & ribs.  We're
toying with the idea of scanning some of these and posting them in
the files area of this club, if anyone is interested.  We'll try to
make a list of some of the available plans and post them.

Al

Back in the forties we had an airplane that was like a glider but had
a string attached to one of the wings. We held the string while we
spun in a circle to make it fly through centifigal force. When I was
8 years old I was not alowed to ave a gas engine.

But I got my first Olson 23 in October 1946 and that is when I
started crashing UC airplanes. And it was an ignition engine.

Robbie

--- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "simpleflyer402" <alwings40@n...> wrote:
> RTP or 'round the pole' flying models were developed around the
> 1940's, more or less.  They are an early form of control line
models.
>
> The simplest form is a model simply attached to a string which is
> attached to a pole and swung around in a circle.  This is perhaps
the
> simplest form of line controlled flight.  One can just take up any
> small model airplane and securely attach a sturdy but light string
to
> it and go for it.  Using a pole gives more momentum for the use of
> longer lines and affords some degree of control by raising the tip
of
> the pole up or down.
>
> A variation on this was developed by the ledgendary Jim Walker.  He
> took his two line "U-Control" sytem and using the pole to enhance
> the 'swingability' of the models and resulted with a RTP that could
> be controlled to a greater extent.  This method was used to some
> extent during the WW-II era due to the scarcity of model engines.
>
> If you want to see illustrations of these two systems, check the
> files section of this club.  Posted are both the single line method
> (Megow) and the two line method(Jim Walker).
>
> Another variation of RTP is removing the operator from the center
of
> the circle and attaching the free end of the line to a pivot on a
> pole securely anchored to the ground.  In this case rubber,
internal
> combustion engines, or electric motors are used for powering the
> airplane.  We shall describe these RTP models in a future message.
>
> Some advantages of RTP are:  easy and simple to build, easy to fly,
> cheap, can be flown in small areas, and are a good entry model for
> getting a newcomer, especially very young ones, into model
airplanes.
>
> In our next message on RTP, we shall describe a very quick and easy
> way to get into RTP.

RTP or 'round the pole' flying models were developed around the
1940's, more or less.  They are an early form of control line models.

The simplest form is a model simply attached to a string which is
attached to a pole and swung around in a circle.  This is perhaps the
simplest form of line controlled flight.  One can just take up any
small model airplane and securely attach a sturdy but light string to
it and go for it.  Using a pole gives more momentum for the use of
longer lines and affords some degree of control by raising the tip of
the pole up or down.

A variation on this was developed by the ledgendary Jim Walker.  He
took his two line "U-Control" sytem and using the pole to enhance
the 'swingability' of the models and resulted with a RTP that could
be controlled to a greater extent.  This method was used to some
extent during the WW-II era due to the scarcity of model engines.

If you want to see illustrations of these two systems, check the
files section of this club.  Posted are both the single line method
(Megow) and the two line method(Jim Walker).

Another variation of RTP is removing the operator from the center of
the circle and attaching the free end of the line to a pivot on a
pole securely anchored to the ground.  In this case rubber, internal
combustion engines, or electric motors are used for powering the
airplane.  We shall describe these RTP models in a future message.

Some advantages of RTP are:  easy and simple to build, easy to fly,
cheap, can be flown in small areas, and are a good entry model for
getting a newcomer, especially very young ones, into model airplanes.

In our next message on RTP, we shall describe a very quick and easy
way to get into RTP.

We're glad you made it over the group.  Keep us posted with your
progress on what you are building.  I've located the box where my P-
40 has been in storage. Now we need to schedule a few moments a day
to work on it.  We had started reinforcing the nose to take the 020,
also will need to figure out an anchor point for the RTP line.
Perhaps a nutplate on the back of the engine mounting firewall with a
piece of wire soldered to it to connect to the RTP line.  Also, might
replace the 'tail feathers' with ones cut from sheet balsa.  The
model will build up faster and could easily accept a UC system if we
later decide to modify it.  We plan to mostly fly it in the backyard.

Yes, it does appear as modelers get more involved in building and
flying, they tend to get away from the simple and fun side of this
hobby.  That is one of the primary purposes of this group.  Another
purpose is to present a variety of simple to build and easy to fly
model airplanes that would attract newcomers, both old and young, to
the hobby.

Al

I have a R/N Models Sky Gull. It is a RBFF kit.

I build the wings first or I never finish the airplane. Can't call
this one a model because it is an old FF design.

I have both of the wing main panels framed. I was sanding the first
one. While sinding I heard a "CRACK"! I really hate when that
happens. BUT I CAN"T FIND WHAT CRACKED!

Robbie

When I was a kid I did more UC crashing than flying. I never got one
to make a full circle. I gave up and moved to primative RC in 1955.
The crashes were not a dramtic.

I did not try RBFF again until the mid 70s and I was about 40 years
old. One of my older friends thaught me how to make them fly.

The planes I liked the best were the FlyLine models. Everyone I built
flew like a champ. I wish they were still around.

If you want a Guillows plane to fly, the first thing to do is, throw
away the wood that comes in the kit.

Currently I am into small electric RC, RBFF, and OT Replica FF (SAM).

I just found out about the Flying Aces group in Seattle. Next spring
when it stops raining I will go check them out. They do have at least
one nice place to fly. I don't know it Boeing allows non-employees to
attend the FAC meets that are on Boeing property.

The P40 that I have under construction is one of the Earl Stahl
designs. It is about the same size as the Guillows P40. Mine is being
setup for electric RC. I will start posting pictures of it's progress.

Robbie

--- In SimpleFlyers@y..., "simpleflyer402" <alwings40@n...> wrote:
> Glad to see you here.  We too, spend a lot of time on the computer
> reading and lurking on these boards.  We're in SE TX just across
the
> Brazos river from Houston.  We too have a number of unfinished
> models.  We hope to at least get the P-40 done for the 'cook off'.
> As a youngster we did more U-control model flying than FF.  There
was
> a pretty active UC club at the time and very few FF modelers and RC
> had not 'come on line' yet.  But I did build a number of Comet and
> Guillows kits and built a few FF models - hlg, Jetex, rubber, and a
> couple 020 - all sport or scale.  Interestingly,  Guillows made
some
> UC models, and my first successful UC model was a Guillows UC
Trainer
> II, after crashing an AJ Firebaby, Scientific 1/2 A P-51 profile,
> Ringmaster w/Fox 35, and a few others.  Later,
>
> Al

Hi Guys,

Just signed on after seeing texasblackbird's mention of
SimpleFlyers on the Guillowsbuilders club board.

I'm planning on finishing (literally) my Guillow's P-40
for the Guillowsbuilders cookup, and am toying with the
idea of also building a Hurricane from the 500-series kit,
but with a lighter framework than the P-40. Great fun!

I really like the premise of this group. I think that
modelling attracts those who like to expand their skills,
but that same tendency can also lead to trying so hard
to improve that the fun of building simple models can
be forgotten. At least, that's the way it's been for me.

Hmmm, I have a Comet "Cloudbuster" kit that may be just
the  ticket to get into the spirit of building simple
flying models...

Thermals,  Jeff

Glad to see you here.  We too, spend a lot of time on the computer
reading and lurking on these boards.  We're in SE TX just across the
Brazos river from Houston.  We too have a number of unfinished
models.  We hope to at least get the P-40 done for the 'cook off'.
As a youngster we did more U-control model flying than FF.  There was
a pretty active UC club at the time and very few FF modelers and RC
had not 'come on line' yet.  But I did build a number of Comet and
Guillows kits and built a few FF models - hlg, Jetex, rubber, and a
couple 020 - all sport or scale.  Interestingly,  Guillows made some
UC models, and my first successful UC model was a Guillows UC Trainer
II, after crashing an AJ Firebaby, Scientific 1/2 A P-51 profile,
Ringmaster w/Fox 35, and a few others.  Later,

Al

I just recieved an invite on the Guillows MB.

I have a bunch of unfinished STICK & TISSUE airplanes out in the
grage needing attention.

But here in Puget Sound, it is pretty cold in the grage right now. So
I am reading message boards instead.

Robbie

Hello Marc, thanks for signing up to the group.  We've been a little
slow in getting members for the group.  I'll try to see if we can
find some people to join us here.  What are you building?  We're
trying to finish a Gullow's 16 inch P-40 that we had started a while
back.  The fuselage, wings, and tail surfaces are built.  Only need
to cover and assemble them.  Am planning to fly it RTP with a Cox
020, so we shall modify the landing gear and nose structure and
probably the tail surfaces.  Later,

Al

Welcome to the "simple Flyers" group.  Please feel free to share your
experiences with your flying models.  Let us know what you are
building.  Do you have some neat tips and ideas about building and
flying model airplanes that you want to share with us, post them to
the group.  If you have questions about building and flying models,
those are welcome, also.  Our goal is to try to present a forum where
we can share our interest in model airplanes and encourage others to
learn about this fascinating hobby activity.  Also, we hope to
encourage an interest in simple easy to build models, that are
accessible and within the capability of a wide audience and are an
enjoyable recreational activity.  So pull up a chair and join in the
group.

Al