The main goal of this list is to have a place for contemporary "self-made men" and men in the making-- transmen and FTM's to hang out and talk freely, exchange information, provide each other support, and discuss issues. Picture leather wing chairs, cigars if you like, smoke free if you like. What makes it different than some other ftm groups is that it is a place where transguys, no less than sophisticated bioguys, can admit to grappling with the reality of "manhood after feminism," without being labelled "pussy-whipped," or the "PC Police." On the other hand, it is a place where guys can relax and be guys, tell jokes, laugh loud etc., without offending women and FTM's who do not consider themselves to be males, because membership is limited to transmen and male-identified FTM's. It is a place for us to help one another, to give and get information. Members are welcome who can tolerate and appreciate the complexity of our situation with humor, civility and goodwill. Talk here will be supportive and disagreements will be about issues discussed openly but in a cvilized way. Personalizing disagreements about issues will not be tolerated. Things written on this list are NOT to be shared off list.