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G'day!

I have just joined the List and am a little unsure of whether I can
benefit or assist.

I am researching the name of GUIL/GUILE/GOLD as the name was recorded in
the Parish Registers at Douglas in Lanarkshire, Scotland. The name was
obviously seated in the town well before the extant records reveal and
the male members were predominantly miners at Rigside.

I have seen several references to the fact that these Douglas/Rigside
people staunchly supported the Covenanter movement. I suppose I am now
looking for guidance to extend my knowledge of the family through the
possibility that some may have been captured and sent to America,
thereby creating some gaps in families and sudden cessation of children
in others.

Can anyone assist me?

Bill
Melbourne, Oz

The Scottish soldiers that were deported to America were captured by the
Cromwell forces at the Battles  of Dunbar and Worcester.  the Worcester
captives were on the John and Sarah which departed Gravesend  in Nov
1651 arrived in Boston before 14 May 1652.  There is no one in the John
and  Sara list with a name like one of yours.

I do not think there was a passenger list of the dunbar capives on the
Unity but most went to the Iron Works in Saugus, then Lynn, or
Braintree.  There are references to those some of those men in the Iron
Works papers and the Vital Records of Essex County.

the Golds/Goulds in the Essex County VRs are after 1700.  There was a
Zaccheus Gould probably of Lynn mentioned in the Essex County Probate in
1644 and later.  There were several Zaccheus Gould's in the late 1600s.
  Some are probably the same man as he moved from town to town but no
records connect them..

bob gillis

Bill Eye wrote:

>G'day!
>
>I have just joined the List and am a little unsure of whether I can
>benefit or assist.
>
>I am researching the name of GUIL/GUILE/GOLD as the name was recorded in
>the Parish Registers at Douglas in Lanarkshire, Scotland. The name was
>obviously seated in the town well before the extant records reveal and
>the male members were predominantly miners at Rigside.
>
>I have seen several references to the fact that these Douglas/Rigside
>people staunchly supported the Covenanter movement. I suppose I am now
>looking for guidance to extend my knowledge of the family through the
>possibility that some may have been captured and sent to America,
>thereby creating some gaps in families and sudden cessation of children
>in others.
>

Hi,
I haven't done much with this group in a while, I've
been getting lots of junk mail through this list.  But
I wonder if there were any Abernathy/Abernethys on the
John and Sara?  I have some info on Robert Abernathy
coming from the Cathedral where many pows were held
after the Battles of Dunbar/Worcester, and being sent
over here to Charles City?-Ericka

--- bob gillis <robertgillis@...> wrote:

> The Scottish soldiers that were deported to America
> were captured by the
> Cromwell forces at the Battles  of Dunbar and
> Worcester.  the Worcester
> captives were on the John and Sarah which departed
> Gravesend  in Nov
> 1651 arrived in Boston before 14 May 1652.  There is
> no one in the John
> and  Sara list with a name like one of yours.
>
> I do not think there was a passenger list of the
> dunbar capives on the
> Unity but most went to the Iron Works in Saugus,
> then Lynn, or
> Braintree.  There are references to those some of
> those men in the Iron
> Works papers and the Vital Records of Essex County.
>
> the Golds/Goulds in the Essex County VRs are after
> 1700.  There was a
> Zaccheus Gould probably of Lynn mentioned in the
> Essex County Probate in
> 1644 and later.  There were several Zaccheus Gould's
> in the late 1600s.
>  Some are probably the same man as he moved from
> town to town but no
> records connect them..
>
> bob gillis
>
> Bill Eye wrote:
>
> >G'day!
> >
> >I have just joined the List and am a little unsure
> of whether I can
> >benefit or assist.
> >
> >I am researching the name of GUIL/GUILE/GOLD as the
> name was recorded in
> >the Parish Registers at Douglas in Lanarkshire,
> Scotland. The name was
> >obviously seated in the town well before the extant
> records reveal and
> >the male members were predominantly miners at
> Rigside.
> >
> >I have seen several references to the fact that
> these Douglas/Rigside
> >people staunchly supported the Covenanter movement.
> I suppose I am now
> >looking for guidance to extend my knowledge of the
> family through the
> >possibility that some may have been captured and
> sent to America,
> >thereby creating some gaps in families and sudden
> cessation of children
> >in others.
> >
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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bob gillis wrote:
> The Scottish soldiers that were deported to America were captured by the
> Cromwell forces at the Battles  of Dunbar and Worcester.  the Worcester
> captives were on the John and Sarah which departed Gravesend  in Nov
> 1651 arrived in Boston before 14 May 1652.  There is no one in the John
> and  Sara list with a name like one of yours.
>
> I do not think there was a passenger list of the dunbar capives on the
> Unity but most went to the Iron Works in Saugus, then Lynn, or
> Braintree.  There are references to those some of those men in the Iron
> Works papers and the Vital Records of Essex County.
>
> the Golds/Goulds in the Essex County VRs are after 1700.  There was a
> Zaccheus Gould probably of Lynn mentioned in the Essex County Probate in
> 1644 and later.  There were several Zaccheus Gould's in the late 1600s.
>  Some are probably the same man as he moved from town to town but no
> records connect them..
>
> bob gillis
>
> Bill Eye wrote:
>
>
G'day Bob,

Such a quick response!

Thanks for the resume, I suppose on the face of things, it is unlikely
that there were any of my people involved or that I would have any real
chance of tracing them.

But I will stay on the List for a while, just in case something
evolves.....and at least I am learning something!

Thanks,

Bill

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I have a Daniel Robbins...maybe spelled Robins or Robertson. Said to
have been captured at the battle of Wocestor. Fighting the dictator
Cromwell. Sent to colony of Connecticut. When servitude over, moved to
New Jersey and married a Hope Potter. The Robbins in NJ later joined
the Quaker faith. Any other data on this Daniel Robbins? Said also to
be from Blair Atholl, Scotland.

Steven Russell in Iowa

The only list of Scottish prisoners from the Battle of Worcester that I
know of is the one for the JOHN and SARAH which sailed from Gravesend in
Nov 1651 and landed in Boston in April or May 1652.

   In the list there is one Daniel (--?--) and a Daniel Robinson.

There are a number of references to Daniel Robbins in the NEHGR Index
(Vol 1-1 50) and one for Daniel Robertson.

When and where do you first find Daniel Robbins in Connecticut from what
source?

What is the source for your Daniel being from Blair Atholl?

bob gillis

lakeman12002 wrote:

>I have a Daniel Robbins...maybe spelled Robins or Robertson. Said to
>have been captured at the battle of Wocestor. Fighting the dictator
>Cromwell. Sent to colony of Connecticut. When servitude over, moved to
>New Jersey and married a Hope Potter. The Robbins in NJ later joined
>the Quaker faith. Any other data on this Daniel Robbins? Said also to
>be from Blair Atholl, Scotland.
>
>Steven Russell in Iowa
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

BOB: Thanks for the message and the inquiry.

   I have been researching my Robbins line quite a long time. The name Robbins
was thought to be English. However, now believe it to be of Scottish origin.
Traced the name back through to New Jersey to Quakers. It was there I was in
contact with a number of other descendants: Gary Robbins, Lanny Robbins, Brian
Robbins, and a Sara Robbins Hoffman who wrote a pamphlet called: THE EXILE OF
DANIEL ROBBINS. In it, she ties Daniel Robbins to Robertsons of Scotland. Daniel
Robbins put on auction block in Mass. Buyer went to Conn. His family members
became Quakers; however, seems he himself did not. (my grandparents married in
the Quaker church here in Iowa.)

   The Robbins name has been spelled in various ways...Robbins, Robins, Roebens,
etc. But dates do match up.

   Daniel Robbins/Robertson born 1627 Blair Atholl, Scotland. Married 3 Feb.
1662/1663 in New Haven, Conn. Died 1687 Monmouth, New Jersey.They had 10
children. Some descendants went to western Penn. From there, a John Robbins
married Eliz. Bronson and came to Iowa in 1850. Their 6 sons found there way
into Iowa civil war regiments...4 in 20th. Iowa and 2 in the 9th. Iowa. I am a
descendant of the oldest...James Robbins of the 20th. Iowa.

   Sara Robbins Hoffman very fine lady...  july37@...

   Steven Russell

bob gillis <robertgillis@...> wrote:
           The only list of Scottish prisoners from the Battle of Worcester that
I
know of is the one for the JOHN and SARAH which sailed from Gravesend in
Nov 1651 and landed in Boston in April or May 1652.

In the list there is one Daniel (--?--) and a Daniel Robinson.

There are a number of references to Daniel Robbins in the NEHGR Index
(Vol 1-1 50) and one for Daniel Robertson.

When and where do you first find Daniel Robbins in Connecticut from what
source?

What is the source for your Daniel being from Blair Atholl?

bob gillis

lakeman12002 wrote:

>I have a Daniel Robbins...maybe spelled Robins or Robertson. Said to
>have been captured at the battle of Wocestor. Fighting the dictator
>Cromwell. Sent to colony of Connecticut. When servitude over, moved to
>New Jersey and married a Hope Potter. The Robbins in NJ later joined
>the Quaker faith. Any other data on this Daniel Robbins? Said also to
>be from Blair Atholl, Scotland.
>
>Steven Russell in Iowa
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

I'm a new member, glad to have found you.

Do you know about this list of officers captured at
Dunbar (at the bottom of the page)? If your ancestor
isn't on the list, don't give up as this is only a
small fraction of those who were captured.

http://www.scan.org.uk/researchrtools/military.htm

Eleanor

Eleanor Hall wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm a new member, glad to have found you.
>
>Do you know about this list of officers captured at
>Dunbar (at the bottom of the page)? If your ancestor
>isn't on the list, don't give up as this is only a
>small fraction of those who were captured.
>
>http://www.scan.org.uk/researchrtools/military.htm
>

Is there any listing of the Scottish soldiers catured at
Worcester,beyond  some lists of men transprted to North America?

bob gillis

>
>Eleanor
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In answer to Bob's question at the bottom:

Bob,

I don't know of any lists of prisoners other than the
one I mentioned and the list of those who came on the
ship John and Sarah in 1651. Does anyone know of other
lists?

Eleanor Hall

--- bob gillis <robertgillis@...> wrote:

>
>
> Eleanor Hall wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >I'm a new member, glad to have found you.
> >
> >Do you know about this list of officers captured at
> >Dunbar (at the bottom of the page)? If your
> ancestor
> >isn't on the list, don't give up as this is only a
> >small fraction of those who were captured.
> >
> >http://www.scan.org.uk/researchrtools/military.htm
> >
>
> Is there any listing of the Scottish soldiers
> catured at
> Worcester,beyond  some lists of men transprted to
> North America?
>
> bob gillis
>
> >
> >Eleanor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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Hi,
  I am looking to find out more about John and Mrs. Vernor (as listed
on the manifest then changed to Van Oy/Vannoy) who paid 10 pound (they
had not been part of the prisoners who boarded) for their trip on the
Henry and Francis that left Perth on Sep. 5 1685 with Pitlochie and
with Richard Hutton as master.  I know my genealogy from then to now
but I'm trying to find out about John and Rachel, before they came to
the U.S. and settled in Statin Island where they had their family.  It
has been family tradition that Rachel was a relative of Oliver
Cromwell and that there were ties to royal blood but there has never
been proof of this.  Can someone help me to find out or give me some
advice of where to start looking?  I've ran up against a brick wall
and have no idea where to go from here.  It is said that they were
Dutch, who then moved to france,then to England over many generations,
and then moved onto Scotland to avoid the wars.  They were protestant,
and it is family tradition that the Vernor/Vannoy descendant fought
under Cromwell's banner and fled to Scotland for safety and to come to
America.  Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Brenda

Brenda,

My documentation only includes those Scots deported to the Americas as POWs (in
my case by Cromwell after the Battle of Dunbar - 1650).  I have no notation of
Van Oy/Vannoy.  Sorry for no info.

Dave Fisher
City of Williamsburg, VA. USA

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Brenda
   To: ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:22 PM
   Subject: [ScottishWarPrisoners] looking for Vernor/Vannoy immigrants on the
Henry and Francis with Pitlochie


   Hi,
   I am looking to find out more about John and Mrs. Vernor (as listed
   on the manifest then changed to Van Oy/Vannoy) who paid 10 pound (they
   had not been part of the prisoners who boarded) for their trip on the
   Henry and Francis that left Perth on Sep. 5 1685 with Pitlochie and
   with Richard Hutton as master. I know my genealogy from then to now
   but I'm trying to find out about John and Rachel, before they came to
   the U.S. and settled in Statin Island where they had their family. It
   has been family tradition that Rachel was a relative of Oliver
   Cromwell and that there were ties to royal blood but there has never
   been proof of this. Can someone help me to find out or give me some
   advice of where to start looking? I've ran up against a brick wall
   and have no idea where to go from here. It is said that they were
   Dutch, who then moved to france,then to England over many generations,
   and then moved onto Scotland to avoid the wars. They were protestant,
   and it is family tradition that the Vernor/Vannoy descendant fought
   under Cromwell's banner and fled to Scotland for safety and to come to
   America. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
   Thanks,
   Brenda






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007 6:29
PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, Brenda,

No ideas on your search, but could you tell me where
you found the manifest for the Henry and Francis
voyage? I'm searching for a possible ancestor, George
Ross, and I'm wondering if he could have been on that
ship.

Eleanor

--- Brenda <bluidswede@...> wrote:

>  Hi,
>  I am looking to find out more about John and Mrs.
> Vernor (as listed
> on the manifest then changed to Van Oy/Vannoy) who
> paid 10 pound (they
> had not been part of the prisoners who boarded) for
> their trip on the
> Henry and Francis that left Perth on Sep. 5 1685
> with Pitlochie and
> with Richard Hutton as master.  I know my genealogy
> from then to now
> but I'm trying to find out about John and Rachel,
> before they came to
> the U.S. and settled in Statin Island where they had
> their family.  It
> has been family tradition that Rachel was a relative
> of Oliver
> Cromwell and that there were ties to royal blood but
> there has never
> been proof of this.  Can someone help me to find out
> or give me some
> advice of where to start looking?  I've ran up
> against a brick wall
> and have no idea where to go from here.  It is said
> that they were
> Dutch, who then moved to france,then to England over
> many generations,
> and then moved onto Scotland to avoid the wars.
> They were protestant,
> and it is family tradition that the Vernor/Vannoy
> descendant fought
> under Cromwell's banner and fled to Scotland for
> safety and to come to
> America.  Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Brenda
>
>

"Directory of Scots Banished to the American Plantations 1650-1775" has the
following entry:

"ROSS GEORGE
Ross-shire. Cattle thief.
Transported for 7 years,
at Inverness 1752"

Dave Fisher

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Eleanor Hall
   To: ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:21 PM
   Subject: Re: [ScottishWarPrisoners] looking for Vernor/Vannoy immigrants on
the Henry and Francis with Pitlochie


   Hello, Brenda,

   No ideas on your search, but could you tell me where
   you found the manifest for the Henry and Francis
   voyage? I'm searching for a possible ancestor, George
   Ross, and I'm wondering if he could have been on that
   ship.

   Eleanor

   --- Brenda <bluidswede@...> wrote:

   > Hi,
   > I am looking to find out more about John and Mrs.
   > Vernor (as listed
   > on the manifest then changed to Van Oy/Vannoy) who
   > paid 10 pound (they
   > had not been part of the prisoners who boarded) for
   > their trip on the
   > Henry and Francis that left Perth on Sep. 5 1685
   > with Pitlochie and
   > with Richard Hutton as master. I know my genealogy
   > from then to now
   > but I'm trying to find out about John and Rachel,
   > before they came to
   > the U.S. and settled in Statin Island where they had
   > their family. It
   > has been family tradition that Rachel was a relative
   > of Oliver
   > Cromwell and that there were ties to royal blood but
   > there has never
   > been proof of this. Can someone help me to find out
   > or give me some
   > advice of where to start looking? I've ran up
   > against a brick wall
   > and have no idea where to go from here. It is said
   > that they were
   > Dutch, who then moved to france,then to England over
   > many generations,
   > and then moved onto Scotland to avoid the wars.
   > They were protestant,
   > and it is family tradition that the Vernor/Vannoy
   > descendant fought
   > under Cromwell's banner and fled to Scotland for
   > safety and to come to
   > America. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
   > Thanks,
   > Brenda
   >
   >





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/620 - Release Date: 1/8/2007 4:12
PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

George Gray was one of 150 Dunbar prisoners transported to Boston in
1650 in the 'Unity,' and thence transported to the lumber plantations
around Berwick, ME.  His presence there and subsequent genealogy is
well documented.  At one time it was stated on Wikipedia that he came
from Lanark, but the entry was later removed as "Not Notable."  I can
find no information about him on the Lanark/Lanarkshire websites.  My
guess is that any such information originated in American records or
writings, probably in the York County, ME area.  Any info?

Dave Fisher

Dave,
Your search is effectively before most ordinary people were recorded so
unless you stumble across his baptism in one of the few parishes with
legible records pre 1700 or you find him in some military muster roll, it is
highly unlikely you will find any reference to him in Scotland.

Earlier there was an email about a couple who emigrated in 1685. It was from
Brenda and this is the reply I tried to send to the list then:

Brenda,

I am sorry to say but I think your family folklore has been invented by some
of your ancestors to make their ancestors sound more interesting.

Firstly Oliver Cromwell fought the armies of King Charles I 40 years before
they emigrated so if he had been in Cromwell’s army he would have been a
very old man in his 60’s at the time of emigration to America. Secondly, it
is unlikely that Protestants would have left England and move to Scotland.
Cromwell’s England was staunch Protestant like Scotland. Given that Cromwell
slaughtered a Scottish army under Charles II at Worcester on 3rd September
1651 and Cromwell was hated in Scotland so I cannot see supporters of
Cromwell fleeing to Scotland. Far more likely your ancestors were simple
economic migrants which would explain why they paid for their passage. They
sound Dutch so they may have come to England or Scotland when Charles II
came back from exile in 1660.

Sorry if it spoils a good story.

I know it is hard for those of you in North America to understand but
generally when someone left Scotland or England to emigrate or as either a
common criminal or "political prisoner" being transported, the general
attitude was good riddance and thank goodness that's one or more less mouths
to feed. Most people were too concerned with the problems of just surviving
from day to day in what was a relatively poor country (even most aristocrats
in Scotland were very poor by comparison with their English or French
counterparts) so people leaving or being transported was really only of
interest to their immeidate families.

However on the other side of the pond it was a different matter and most of
the immigrants wanted to record somewhere who they were and where they came
from. However unless as is the case with your ancestor, who was recorded as
a "political prisoner", a Royalist, being transported, in my experience the
overwhelming majority who claim to have been transported or exiled for
supporting this king or that religion were simply making it up and were
either economic migrants or common criminals given the chance to be
transported rather than hung. As I have said to many disappointed American
descendants when confronting them with the court papers in London of their
ancestor's far from noble reason for transportation, if you were transported
as a common criminal and 30 years later by luck and hard toil had risen to
be someone of importance in colonial society, what would you tell yuor
children and grandchildren, that you were a common criminal or a heroic
warrior punished for your political or religious beliefs. I know which I
would choose and after all the last thing they would expect is that 350
years later their distant descendants could either fly to Britain in 5 hours
or do research without even leaving their own homes!!

To anyone researching an ancestor who migrated to the North America for any
reason between 1650 and 1775 (when transportation to the American colonies
stopped) my advice is always to exhaust every possible source on your side
of the pond before trying on this side because 99% of times, all the likely
information is in North America not in the UK. Our records from that time
are almost non-existent and at best very patchy and generally relate only to
the very important or the very wicked.

Mark




>From: "Dave Fisher" <fishrdnc@...>
>Reply-To: ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com
>To: ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [ScottishWarPrisoners] Looking for the Scottish origin of George
>Gray
>Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:29:52 -0000
>
>George Gray was one of 150 Dunbar prisoners transported to Boston in
>1650 in the 'Unity,' and thence transported to the lumber plantations
>around Berwick, ME.  His presence there and subsequent genealogy is
>well documented.  At one time it was stated on Wikipedia that he came
>from Lanark, but the entry was later removed as "Not Notable."  I can
>find no information about him on the Lanark/Lanarkshire websites.  My
>guess is that any such information originated in American records or
>writings, probably in the York County, ME area.  Any info?
>
>Dave Fisher
>

_________________________________________________________________
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HI Eleanor,
  Sure I'll be happy to!
it's at www.immigrantships.net/v5/1600v5/henryandfrancis16851200
or you could look at
www.thereformation.info/passhf.htm
either one of these sites has the complete manifest on them.
Happy hunting
Bren

Eleanor Hall <eleahall@...> wrote:                                  Hello,
Brenda,

  No ideas on your search, but could you tell me where
  you found the manifest for the Henry and Francis
  voyage? I'm searching for a possible ancestor, George
  Ross, and I'm wondering if he could have been on that
  ship.

  Eleanor

  --- Brenda <bluidswede@...> wrote:

  >  Hi,
  >  I am looking to find out more about John and Mrs.
  > Vernor (as listed
  > on the manifest then changed to Van Oy/Vannoy) who
  > paid 10 pound (they
  > had not been part of the prisoners who boarded) for
  > their trip on the
  > Henry and Francis that left Perth on Sep. 5 1685
  > with Pitlochie and
  > with Richard Hutton as master.  I know my genealogy
  > from then to now
  > but I'm trying to find out about John and Rachel,
  > before they came to
  > the U.S. and settled in Statin Island where they had
  > their family.  It
  > has been family tradition that Rachel was a relative
  > of Oliver
  > Cromwell and that there were ties to royal blood but
  > there has never
  > been proof of this.  Can someone help me to find out
  > or give me some
  > advice of where to start looking?  I've ran up
  > against a brick wall
  > and have no idea where to go from here.  It is said
  > that they were
  > Dutch, who then moved to france,then to England over
  > many generations,
  > and then moved onto Scotland to avoid the wars.
  > They were protestant,
  > and it is family tradition that the Vernor/Vannoy
  > descendant fought
  > under Cromwell's banner and fled to Scotland for
  > safety and to come to
  > America.  Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
  > Thanks,
  > Brenda
  >
  >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Mark for the interesting information.  More than likely you are right
about my ancestor...I didn't actually believe the tales but I put it out there
for anyone that has information to contact me.  Funny how stories originate huh?
   Well, it has been researched and the manifest found but all that was listed
was the fact that they paid their passage and was on the boat in Scotland when
it sailed, and lived through the hard voyage to America. But, I am trying to
find out any particulars about them, such as: where did they come from, last
known home of record, why did they immigrate, how were they listed i.e.
prisoners, economic or otherwise.
   Here on this side, we don't have information about these things...just what
the manifest tells us or what is transcribed from such documents.
   Again, I just loved the information about our 'family story', it was
interesting and most enlightening!
Thanks,
Bren

Mark Sutherland-Fisher <msf10@...> wrote: Dave,
Your search is effectively before most ordinary people were recorded so
unless you stumble across his baptism in one of the few parishes with
legible records pre 1700 or you find him in some military muster roll, it is
highly unlikely you will find any reference to him in Scotland.

Earlier there was an email about a couple who emigrated in 1685. It was from
Brenda and this is the reply I tried to send to the list then:

Brenda,

I am sorry to say but I think your family folklore has been invented by some
of your ancestors to make their ancestors sound more interesting.

Firstly Oliver Cromwell fought the armies of King Charles I 40 years before
they emigrated so if he had been in Cromwell’s army he would have been a
very old man in his 60’s at the time of emigration to America. Secondly, it
is unlikely that Protestants would have left England and move to Scotland.
Cromwell’s England was staunch Protestant like Scotland. Given that Cromwell
slaughtered a Scottish army under Charles II at Worcester on 3rd September
1651 and Cromwell was hated in Scotland so I cannot see supporters of
Cromwell fleeing to Scotland. Far more likely your ancestors were simple
economic migrants which would explain why they paid for their passage. They
sound Dutch so they may have come to England or Scotland when Charles II
came back from exile in 1660.

Sorry if it spoils a good story.

I know it is hard for those of you in North America to understand but
generally when someone left Scotland or England to emigrate or as either a
common criminal or "political prisoner" being transported, the general
attitude was good riddance and thank goodness that's one or more less mouths
to feed. Most people were too concerned with the problems of just surviving
from day to day in what was a relatively poor country (even most aristocrats
in Scotland were very poor by comparison with their English or French
counterparts) so people leaving or being transported was really only of
interest to their immeidate families.

However on the other side of the pond it was a different matter and most of
the immigrants wanted to record somewhere who they were and where they came
from. However unless as is the case with your ancestor, who was recorded as
a "political prisoner", a Royalist, being transported, in my experience the
overwhelming majority who claim to have been transported or exiled for
supporting this king or that religion were simply making it up and were
either economic migrants or common criminals given the chance to be
transported rather than hung. As I have said to many disappointed American
descendants when confronting them with the court papers in London of their
ancestor's far from noble reason for transportation, if you were transported
as a common criminal and 30 years later by luck and hard toil had risen to
be someone of importance in colonial society, what would you tell yuor
children and grandchildren, that you were a common criminal or a heroic
warrior punished for your political or religious beliefs. I know which I
would choose and after all the last thing they would expect is that 350
years later their distant descendants could either fly to Britain in 5 hours
or do research without even leaving their own homes!!

To anyone researching an ancestor who migrated to the North America for any
reason between 1650 and 1775 (when transportation to the American colonies
stopped) my advice is always to exhaust every possible source on your side
of the pond before trying on this side because 99% of times, all the likely
information is in North America not in the UK. Our records from that time
are almost non-existent and at best very patchy and generally relate only to
the very important or the very wicked.

Mark




>From: "Dave Fisher"
>Reply-To: ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com
>To: ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [ScottishWarPrisoners] Looking for the Scottish origin of George
>Gray
>Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:29:52 -0000
>
>George Gray was one of 150 Dunbar prisoners transported to Boston in
>1650 in the 'Unity,' and thence transported to the lumber plantations
>around Berwick, ME.  His presence there and subsequent genealogy is
>well documented.  At one time it was stated on Wikipedia that he came
>from Lanark, but the entry was later removed as "Not Notable."  I can
>find no information about him on the Lanark/Lanarkshire websites.  My
>guess is that any such information originated in American records or
>writings, probably in the York County, ME area.  Any info?
>
>Dave Fisher
>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Hotmail is evolving – check out the new Windows Live Mail
http://ideas.live.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Dave for looking, I really appreciate it!
Bren



--- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Fisher"
<fishrdnc@...> wrote:
>
> George Gray was one of 150 Dunbar prisoners transported to Boston in
> 1650 in the 'Unity,' and thence transported to the lumber plantations
> around Berwick, ME.  His presence there and subsequent genealogy is
> well documented.  At one time it was stated on Wikipedia that he came
> from Lanark, but the entry was later removed as "Not Notable."  I can
> find no information about him on the Lanark/Lanarkshire websites.  My
> guess is that any such information originated in American records or
> writings, probably in the York County, ME area.  Any info?
>
> Dave Fisher
>