> Let's try to remember that Our Lord Yeshua Messiah
> (Jesus Christ), our God and only Saviour, is the
> Divine Jew not the Divine Syrian.
>
> Steve Dennehy

Rather, let us remember more correctly that in Christ there is neither Jew
nor Greek, nor slave or freeman, nor male or female, as Galatians 3:28
explicitly teaches.  There is nothing more destructive to the Christian
faith than favoring one ethnic group over another.

Edward Moore

> I'm very tired of  constant anti-American  sentiments

Dear brother in Yeshua' hammashia'h, I take the liberty to add: how
can it be expected that people believing in the Message of the
Scriptures -including lots of religious Jews, who dislike Israeli and
US politics- agree with the politics of a state (the USA) that
supports a state (Israel) that has occupied lands where people are
given no right, unless they are considered Jewish by the state? Jews
living in the occupied territories, as well as Samaritans, considered
Jewish by the state but not by the Torah, received Israeli
citizenship, Muslims and Christians didn't.
How can it be expected that people believing in the Message of the
Scriptures like the civilians' deaths caused by the wars of a state,
which has money worship as its official religion?
This defineitely is different from being Anti-American in the meaning
of hating the American people or any other people created by the Lord
in the world.

Apparrently Saddam
> Hussein and  and Syria's Assad are living saints.

I completely agree that Syria isn't a democracy. As to Assad, he was
welcomed by the Neture Qarta of London (cfr.
www.nkusa.org/activities/press/london121502.cfm ), so I don't think
he is a bloody Anti-Semite either (it would be better to say "Anti-
Jew" because Syrians definitely are Semites), but, surely, he isn't
democratic.
As to his supposed sanctity ;-) do you know that Assad isn't a true
monotheist either, he isn't a Muslim? He is from the Nusayri sect of
the Kurdish-originated cult of angels, which is considered a
development of Mithraism.

> Let's try to remember that Our Lord Yeshua Messiah
> (Jesus Christ), our God and only Saviour, is the
> Divine Jew not the Divine Syrian.

Of course Yeshua' HamMashia'h was a Jew, and almost all the prophets
and the main saints of our faith, including the mother of God, are
Jews.
Shalom uverakhah,
Davide

Davide,
I,like most Americans, support  the establishment of a
Palestinian State ,as does Pres. Bush.  I would like
to see Israel withdraw from the occupied territories
but we also have to remember these territories were
occupied after Israel was attacked in the 1967 War.
The Arabs, Muslim and Christian, of Israel are full
citizens of the State of Israel and are about 20% of
the population.
I want a free Palestinian nation as well as a secure
Israel.
America is committed to Israel to it's survival and
it's security, but we don't think everything Israel
does is right.  Like every other nation Israelis are
good and evil.
It isn't money worship that causes us to send our sons
and daughters to Iraq, it was to rid Irag, the Middle
East and the world of a very evil dictator who has
been a constant problem to the people of Irag as well
as to his neighbors (Iran, Kuwait).  You don't know
America, sir, you don't know the hearts of our people
or our President.  You would never accuse our nation
of such evil.  Americans are not perfect, we are good
and evil like all people but you folks are intent on
painitng us as all-evil and yourselves as all-good.
Both are lies.
Nationalsim, worship of your nation or ethnic group,
is idolatry.  Worship God alone; only God is God.
In Lord Yeshua (Jesus) who suffered and died for the
sins of all people.
Steve
--- Dŕvide Sivčro <davidetamara@...> wrote:
> > I'm very tired of  constant anti-American
> sentiments
>
> Dear brother in Yeshua' hammashia'h, I take the
> liberty to add: how
> can it be expected that people believing in the
> Message of the
> Scriptures -including lots of religious Jews, who
> dislike Israeli and
> US politics- agree with the politics of a state (the
> USA) that
> supports a state (Israel) that has occupied lands
> where people are
> given no right, unless they are considered Jewish by
> the state? Jews
> living in the occupied territories, as well as
> Samaritans, considered
> Jewish by the state but not by the Torah, received
> Israeli
> citizenship, Muslims and Christians didn't.
> How can it be expected that people believing in the
> Message of the
> Scriptures like the civilians' deaths caused by the
> wars of a state,
> which has money worship as its official religion?
> This defineitely is different from being
> Anti-American in the meaning
> of hating the American people or any other people
> created by the Lord
> in the world.
>
> Apparrently Saddam
> > Hussein and  and Syria's Assad are living saints.
>
> I completely agree that Syria isn't a democracy. As
> to Assad, he was
> welcomed by the Neture Qarta of London (cfr.
> www.nkusa.org/activities/press/london121502.cfm ),
> so I don't think
> he is a bloody Anti-Semite either (it would be
> better to say "Anti-
> Jew" because Syrians definitely are Semites), but,
> surely, he isn't
> democratic.
> As to his supposed sanctity ;-) do you know that
> Assad isn't a true
> monotheist either, he isn't a Muslim? He is from the
> Nusayri sect of
> the Kurdish-originated cult of angels, which is
> considered a
> development of Mithraism.
>
> > Let's try to remember that Our Lord Yeshua Messiah
> > (Jesus Christ), our God and only Saviour, is the
> > Divine Jew not the Divine Syrian.
>
> Of course Yeshua' HamMashia'h was a Jew, and almost
> all the prophets
> and the main saints of our faith, including the
> mother of God, are
> Jews.
> Shalom uverakhah,
> Davide
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ----------
> "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow
> to anger."
> (James 1:19)
> Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>      SOR-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>





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Steve -

The SOR-Forum is dedicated to disseminating information related to
the spiritual heritage of the Syriac Orthodox Church. Significant
news related to the Church are also disseminated on the forum as
appropriate. Members of the forum are nationals of different
countries including a number of US nationals and residents. We have
no intent to support any political agenda including promoting any
anti-American sentiments. At the same time, we have no intent to
censor messages of interest to Christians in the Middle East because
it may offend some Americans or of other nationalities.

I assume that the quote in Message <a
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOR-Forum/message/579">579</a>
that provoked you is "The spiritual leaders of the Christian sects
expressed gratitude to President Assad for his kind congratulations,
wishing His Excellency success in leading the country and care for
all the citizens for the best interest of Syria and the Arab Nation."

I cannot agree with your argument that this statement is anti-
American merely because representatives of Middle Eastern Churches
expressed gratitude to Bashar Assad. I guess by the same token, if a
Christian leader were to denounce the denial of civil rights to
Christians in Saudi Arabia that would be "anti-American" as well
because Saudi Arabia is one of the closest US allies.

You go on to claim that the forum consistently promotes anti-American
sentiments. Even if the above statement falls into the category
of "anti-American", the facts do not support your claim. The archives
of messages posted on the forum are available at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOR-Forum. You can go ahead and
determine for yourselves the number of messages that contain any such
statement.

While I have no intent to open SOR-Forum for political discussion,
the point you have raised requires a response.

Assad is no doubt a ruler who was not democratically elected who is
obstructing US designs for the Middle East. Now, how many allies of
the US in the Middle East have democratically elected rulers and
unstained hands?

Syria is a country that is viewed as a nation that promotes terrorism
in the Middle East by the US. Yet, Saudi Arabia, the closest ally of
the US was the chief exporter of terrorism all over the world,
including the terrorists of 9/11 notoriety. One cannot hide behind
the smoke screen that  terrorists were individuals acting on their
own. The Saudi government actively funded ultra-fundamentalist
Wahhabi schools all over the world including US and nurtured agents
of intolerance and terror. The US did nothing about it until the
terrorists struck America.

Syria is perhaps the only country where Christians can live in peace,
practice their religion without fear of reprisal, and aspire to
equality in public life. Is an oblique acknowledgment of this fact
anti-American? Saudi on the other hand is a land where possessing a
Bible or Christian literature, practicing any religion other than
Islam is a crime with grave punishment. Yet, the US is its closest
ally; the US has not been able or willing to exert any influence on
them to permit even a modicum of civil rights for non-Muslims. Aren't
the human values of liberty and equality what America stands for?

In Iraq, Christians who have lived there since time immemorial have
been given the cold shoulder by the US administrators as the
political future of the country is being determined. Despite the evil
perpetrated by the butcher of Baghdad, the Christian minority fared
better than many other countries in the Middle East; today, the
Christian minority lives in the fear of being obliterated. In such
circumstances, can you blame the Christians in the Middle East for
being grateful to Assad?

I hope you will reconsider your intemperate remarks and recognize
that denying human beings liberty, equality and fundamental civil
rights are truly what is "anti-American."

Thomas Joseph
Moderator, SOR-Forum


--- In SOR-Forum@yahoogroups.com, Steve Dennehy <svjd@y...> wrote:
> SOR Forum
>
> I'm very tired of  constant anti-American  sentiments
> and the praising of dictators in the Middle East by so
> called Christians on this forum.  Apparrently Saddam
> Hussein and  and Syria's Assad are living saints.
> Give me a break.
>
> Let's try to remember that Our Lord Yeshua Messiah
> (Jesus Christ), our God and only Saviour, is the
> Divine Jew not the Divine Syrian.
>
> Steve Dennehy
> --- Thomas P <thomas_pa1@y...> wrote:
> > Syrian Arab News Agency, Sun 11 Apr 2004
> > DAMASCUS, April. 11
> >
> > Christian sects in Syria who follow the eastern and
> > Western calendars
> > celebrated on Sunday Easter through performing
> > prayers, masses and
> > preaches.
> >
> > Patriarch of Antioch and all the East of the Roman
> > Catholics
> > Gregorius III Laham chaired a large masse in Roman
> > Catholic
> > Patriarchate in which he spoke about the sublime
> > values of Easter and
> > the divine message conveyed by Christ for salvation
> > of humanity as a
> > whole.
> >
> >
> > A large religious mass also was held at Mar Jurjus
> > Cathedral for the
> > Assyrian-Orthodox. . It was led by Patriarch Mar
> > Agnatuis Zakka Ewas
> > I, the patriarch of Antioch and the whole east and
> > the higher
> > chairman of the Assyrian-Orthodox church in the
> > world.
> >
> >
> > In similar sermons the spiritual leader of the
> > Anglican church in
> > Damascus, Botrous Zaour and archbishop of the
> > Armenian Orthodox in
> > Damascus Armache Balandian  spoke in their separate
> > sermons about the
> > humanitarian message of the Christ to free human
> > beings from their
> > sin and suffering.
> > Similar masses and sermons were observed in other
> > churches and
> > cathedrals in the capital and all over the Syrian
> > governorates to
> > mark the glorious occasion and to commemorate the
> > spirit of
> > coexistence shared by all Syrians of diverse groups
> > and religions.
> >
> > Speeches and preaches during the sermons hailed
> > Syria's national
> > stance, her continuous efforts for realizing just
> > and comprehensive
> > peace in the region and her commitment to justice
> > and right values.
> >
> > Speeches and preaches also condemned the accusations
> > and threats
> > against Syria which aim at subduing the whole region
> > and plundering
> > its wealth and treasures.
> >
> > In this respect and on directive from president
> > Bashar al-Assad, the
> > Minister of the Presidential Affairs Dr. Ghassan
> > Laham on Sunday
> > conveyed the President's heartfelt congratulation to
> > the spiritual
> > leaders of the Christian sects on the occasion of
> > the Easter, wishing
> > them success in their work.
> >
> > Dr. Laham visited His Eminence Patriarch Ignatius IV
> > Hazim of the
> > Roman Orthodox, Archbishop Luca, His Eminence
> > Patriarch Gregorius III
> > Laham of the Roman Catholics, Archbishop Isidor
> > Battikha, Archbishop
> > Elias Tibbi at the Patriarchate of the Assyrian
> > Catholics and others.
> >
> > The spiritual leaders of the Christian sects
> > expressed gratitude to
> > President Assad for his kind congratulations,
> > wishing His Excellency
> > success in leading the country and care for all the
> > citizens for the
> > best interest of Syria and the Arab Nation.
> >
> > Awkaf Minister, Mohammad Ziada also visited the
> > spiritual leaders of
> > the Christian sects and offered them his
> > congratulations on the
> > occasion of Easter.
> >
> > During the meeting the spiritual leaders hailed the
> > national unity
> > and coexistence which Syria enjoys.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ghossoun /
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow
> > to anger."
> > (James 1:19)
> > Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >      SOR-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25˘
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Thomas,

I was referring specifically to paragraphs 5 and 6.
Prasing dictators  like  Assad for "efforts to realize
just and comprehensive peace in the region  and her
commitment to justice and right values" is little
short of an outright lie.  Veiled references to
"accusations and threats against Syria, which aim at
subdueing the whole region and plundering it's wealth
and treasures"  is obviously directed at America.
That seems to be the party line in the Middle
East--"America is there to steal oil and conquer the
region".  Do you really think America waznts the
incredible headache that  the Middle East is ?

You're right, Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, with no
religious freedom, and is an ally of America.  The
Saud family certainly doesn't support the ultra-fun-
damentalist Wahabi sect of Islam since it is opposed
to them, and they have tried buying them off.  The
American government does need to put more pressure on
the Saudi government to democratize that nation.

The only design America has for the Middle East is to
bring stability  and hopefully, democracy to it, not
by coercion but by example.  Unfortunatwely, there is
no tradition of democracy in any of these countries.

It is difficult for Middle Easterners and Americans to
communicate, principally because few Americans are
familiar with Islam and few Middle Easterners are
familiar with America, unless they have lived here
which, proportionately ,few have.  Mddle Easterners
tend to get their sense of America and the American
people from American movies, televsion, music and
advertising, much of which is destructive and decadent
and distorts America.  This is a problem here in
America itself between the left and the right, and
those of us who try to hold the center.

I am GLAD Saddam Husein is gone from power; you should
all be glad he's gone.  One less evil dictator in the
world is to everyone's advantage, especially to the
people of Irag and surrounding countries.

I think it would help a great deal if the SOR forum
focused less on the Syrian people, the Syriac language
and the heritage of the Syrian Church and more on the
One Who is supposed to be the point of the Syrian
Church and every other branch of Christianity--Lord
Yeshua Messiah (Jesus Christ), the living, present
Lord of the Universe in us and among us.
Steve

MODERATOR:
The purpose of the forum is very clearly stated on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sor-forum/. Members are accepted into the forum
with the understanding that they have understood the objectives of the forum and
will abide by its policies.


--- drthomas_joseph <thomas_joseph@...> wrote:
> Steve -
>
> The SOR-Forum is dedicated to disseminating
> information related to
> the spiritual heritage of the Syriac Orthodox
> Church. Significant
> news related to the Church are also disseminated on
> the forum as
> appropriate. Members of the forum are nationals of
> different
> countries including a number of US nationals and
> residents. We have
> no intent to support any political agenda including
> promoting any
> anti-American sentiments. At the same time, we have
> no intent to
> censor messages of interest to Christians in the
> Middle East because
> it may offend some Americans or of other
> nationalities.
>
> I assume that the quote in Message <a
>
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOR-Forum/message/579">579</a>
>
> that provoked you is "The spiritual leaders of the
> Christian sects
> expressed gratitude to President Assad for his kind
> congratulations,
> wishing His Excellency success in leading the
> country and care for
> all the citizens for the best interest of Syria and
> the Arab Nation."
>
> I cannot agree with your argument that this
> statement is anti-
> American merely because representatives of Middle
> Eastern Churches
> expressed gratitude to Bashar Assad. I guess by the
> same token, if a
> Christian leader were to denounce the denial of
> civil rights to
> Christians in Saudi Arabia that would be
> "anti-American" as well
> because Saudi Arabia is one of the closest US
> allies.
>
> You go on to claim that the forum consistently
> promotes anti-American
> sentiments. Even if the above statement falls into
> the category
> of "anti-American", the facts do not support your
> claim. The archives
> of messages posted on the forum are available at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOR-Forum. You can go
> ahead and
> determine for yourselves the number of messages that
> contain any such
> statement.
>
> While I have no intent to open SOR-Forum for
> political discussion,
> the point you have raised requires a response.
>
> Assad is no doubt a ruler who was not democratically
> elected who is
> obstructing US designs for the Middle East. Now, how
> many allies of
> the US in the Middle East have democratically
> elected rulers and
> unstained hands?
>
> Syria is a country that is viewed as a nation that
> promotes terrorism
> in the Middle East by the US. Yet, Saudi Arabia, the
> closest ally of
> the US was the chief exporter of terrorism all over
> the world,
> including the terrorists of 9/11 notoriety. One
> cannot hide behind
> the smoke screen that  terrorists were individuals
> acting on their
> own. The Saudi government actively funded
> ultra-fundamentalist
> Wahhabi schools all over the world including US and
> nurtured agents
> of intolerance and terror. The US did nothing about
> it until the
> terrorists struck America.
>
> Syria is perhaps the only country where Christians
> can live in peace,
> practice their religion without fear of reprisal,
> and aspire to
> equality in public life. Is an oblique
> acknowledgment of this fact
> anti-American? Saudi on the other hand is a land
> where possessing a
> Bible or Christian literature, practicing any
> religion other than
> Islam is a crime with grave punishment. Yet, the US
> is its closest
> ally; the US has not been able or willing to exert
> any influence on
> them to permit even a modicum of civil rights for
> non-Muslims. Aren't
> the human values of liberty and equality what
> America stands for?
>
> In Iraq, Christians who have lived there since time
> immemorial have
> been given the cold shoulder by the US
> administrators as the
> political future of the country is being determined.
> Despite the evil
> perpetrated by the butcher of Baghdad, the Christian
> minority fared
> better than many other countries in the Middle East;
> today, the
> Christian minority lives in the fear of being
> obliterated. In such
> circumstances, can you blame the Christians in the
> Middle East for
> being grateful to Assad?
>
> I hope you will reconsider your intemperate remarks
> and recognize
> that denying human beings liberty, equality and
> fundamental civil
> rights are truly what is "anti-American."
>
> Thomas Joseph
> Moderator, SOR-Forum
>
>
> --- In SOR-Forum@yahoogroups.com, Steve Dennehy
> <svjd@y...> wrote:
> > SOR Forum
> >
> > I'm very tired of  constant anti-American
> sentiments
> > and the praising of dictators in the Middle East
> by so
> > called Christians on this forum.  Apparrently
> Saddam
> > Hussein and  and Syria's Assad are living saints.
> > Give me a break.
> >
> > Let's try to remember that Our Lord Yeshua Messiah
> > (Jesus Christ), our God and only Saviour, is the
> > Divine Jew not the Divine Syrian.
> >
> > Steve Dennehy
> > --- Thomas P <thomas_pa1@y...> wrote:
> > > Syrian Arab News Agency, Sun 11 Apr 2004
> > > DAMASCUS, April. 11
> > >
> > > Christian sects in Syria who follow the eastern
> and
> > > Western calendars
> > > celebrated on Sunday Easter through performing
> > > prayers, masses and
> > > preaches.
> > >
> > > Patriarch of Antioch and all the East of the
> Roman
> > > Catholics
> > > Gregorius III Laham chaired a large masse in
> Roman
> > > Catholic
> > > Patriarchate in which he spoke about the sublime
> > > values of Easter and
> > > the divine message conveyed by Christ for
> salvation
> > > of humanity as a
> > > whole.
> > >
> > >
> > > A large religious mass also was held at Mar
> Jurjus
> > > Cathedral for the
> > > Assyrian-Orthodox. . It was led by Patriarch Mar
> > > Agnatuis Zakka Ewas
> > > I, the patriarch of Antioch and the whole east
> and
> > > the higher
> > > chairman of the Assyrian-Orthodox church in the
> > > world.
> > >
> > >
> > > In similar sermons the spiritual leader of the
> > > Anglican church in
> > > Damascus, Botrous Zaour and archbishop of the
> > > Armenian Orthodox in
> > > Damascus Armache Balandian  spoke in their
> separate
> > > sermons about the
> > > humanitarian message of the Christ to free human
> > > beings from their
> > > sin and suffering.
> > > Similar masses and sermons were observed in
> other
>
=== message truncated ===





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I strongly suggest that Messrs. Dennehy and Sivčro spend some time
studying the work of the Greek Fathers, who were well-acquainted with
the philosophies of Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, etc.

-I didn't reflected before now on these words, dear brother in
Christ. Plato, Aristotle and Plotinus weren't Christians at all, they
were Pagans, but, of course, a Pagan can have a valid thought. St.
Augustine said that the Greeks had been given reason by the Lord,
while the Jews had been given the Torah, the Revelation (which
definitely is more important).

It is the Greeks, not the Hebrews, who are the true spiritual
forebears of Christianity, as St. Clement of Alexandria, for example,
adequately attests.

-Yes, it's very clear that most Jews didn't believe in Christ, while
most Greeks do. Of course this doesn't contraddict at all the fact
that there is NO difference before God between one people and another
people, between Jews, Greeks, Syrians or anybody else.
I suspect that our dear friend and brother in Christ Steve unproperly
mixed hate against the Jews, hate against the Americans, hate against
current American politics, hate against Israeli politics, hate
against the death of innocent Arab people etc., but I wanted to share
with him the thought that the Jews, as well as deserving the utmost
respect as every other people created by God, can't be hated by any
Christian who believes that God chose to incarnate as a Jewish man.
BaMshi'ho,
Davide

Edward,

God the Son became man, He became a Jewish man.  His
Person is God the Son but he has a human nature- male
and  Jewish Semitic Caucasian . In His life among us
he had a language, a religion(the Israeli religion-
God's covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Israel),
a home (Nazareth in Galilee), an occupation (first
carpenter, then itinerant rabbi), a mother
(Miraim/Mary), a foster-father (Yousef/Joseph), step
brothers and sisters . He lived in a psecic time and
place.  He does not transcend His human nature.  By
His Resurrection and Ascension He gloriefies, then
deifies His human nature whcih will always be male
asnd Jewish.
Aramaic Syrian was his primnary language, the language
of the mass of common Israeli peoples in his time,
though He also spoke Hebrew and possibly Greek.
The first Gospel to be written was Mathew which was
written in Aranmaic Syrian as it was addressed to
Aramaic speaking Syrian and Jewish Christians.

In Yeshua, our Beloved Joy,
Steve
--- Edward Moore <emoore@...> wrote:
>
> "Dŕvide Sivčro" <davidetamara@...> wrote:
>
> > Of course Yeshua' HamMashia'h was a Jew, and
> almost all the prophets
> > and the main saints of our faith, including the
> mother of God, are
> > Jews.
> > Shalom uverakhah,
> > Davide
>
> I must confess that I am aghast at the theological
> ignorance of certain members of this forum.  Have
> none bothered to study patrology and the Oecumenical
> Councils?  Jesus was not and is not a Jew!  He was
> incarnated as a Jewish man, yes, but in his humanity
> He united all of human nature with the Godhead, in a
> manner transcending biological and ethnic
> differences.  This is "Theology 101" gentlemen ...
> Please refer to St. Athanasius' De incarnatione, or
> to the Christological writings of St. Maximus the
> Confessor.
>
> Moreover, the Gospels were written in Greek, not
> Hebrew, due to the fact that God has decided to make
> His revelation accessible to the entire world, not
> just to the Jews -- and in that period Greek was the
> common language of the Roman Empire.  I strongly
> suggest that Messrs. Dennehy and Sivčro spend some
> time studying the work of the Greek Fathers, who
> were well-acquainted with the philosophies of Plato,
> Aristotle, Plotinus, etc.  It is the Greeks, not the
> Hebrews, who are the true spiritual forebears of
> Christianity, as St. Clement of Alexandria, for
> example, adequately attests.
>
> H cariV tou Kuriou hmwn Ihsou Cristou meta pantwn
> umwn.
>
> Edward Moore, S.T.L.
>
>
>
>
>
>





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> The Arabs, Muslim and Christian, of Israel are full
> citizens of the State of Israel and are about 20% of
> the population.

-But they are often regarded as second class citizens, as even non-Ashkenazi
Jewish Israelis are.

> It isn't money worship that causes us to send our sons
> and daughters to Iraq, it was to rid Irag, the Middle
> East and the world of a very evil dictator

-I fear that most wars aren't charity...

You would never accuse our nation

-No, dear friend and brother in Christ, I don't accuse a nation, a people at
all. I do accuse a kind of politics.

Americans are not perfect, we are good
> and evil like all people but you folks are intent on
> painitng us as all-evil and yourselves as all-good.
> Both are lies.

-You are right!
BaMshi'ho,
Davide

> I'm very tired of  constant anti-American  sentiments

Dear brother in Yeshua' hammashia'h, I take the liberty to add: how
can it be expected that people believing in the Message of the
Scriptures -including lots of religious Jews, who dislike Israeli and
US politics- agree with the politics of a state (the USA) that
supports a state (Israel) that has occupied lands where people are
given no right, unless they are considered Jewish by the state? Jews
living in the occupied territories, as well as Samaritans, considered
Jewish by the state but not by the Torah, received Israeli
citizenship, Muslims and Christians didn't.
How can it be expected that people believing in the Message of the
Scriptures like the civilians' deaths caused by the wars of a state,
which has money worship as its official religion?
This defineitely is different from being Anti-American in the meaning
of hating the American people or any other people created by the Lord
in the world.

Apparrently Saddam
> Hussein and  and Syria's Assad are living saints.

I completely agree that Syria isn't a democracy. As to Assad, he was
welcomed by the Neture Qarta of London (cfr.
www.nkusa.org/activities/press/london121502.cfm ), so I don't think
he is a bloody Anti-Semite either (it would be better to say "Anti-
Jew" because Syrians definitely are Semites), but, surely, he isn't
democratic.
As to his supposed sanctity ;-) do you know that Assad isn't a true
monotheist either, he isn't a Muslim? He is from the Nusayri sect of
the Kurdish-originated cult of angels, which is considered a
development of Mithraism.

> Let's try to remember that Our Lord Yeshua Messiah
> (Jesus Christ), our God and only Saviour, is the
> Divine Jew not the Divine Syrian.

Of course Yeshua' HamMashia'h was a Jew, and almost all the prophets
and the main saints of our faith, including the mother of God, are
Jews.
Shalom uverakhah,
Davide



----------
"Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger."
(James 1:19)
Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu

Jesus was not and is not a Jew!  He was incarnated as a Jewish man

-I meant that.

> Moreover, the Gospels were written in Greek, not Hebrew

-Lots of scholars say that at least Mor Mattay's Gospel was written
either in Aramaic or Hebrew, isn't that true? Anyhow I think it isn't
a matter of dogma...
The Greek Orthodox tradition says that the Aramaic or Hebrew parts of
the New Testament were immediately translated into Greek under the
guidance of the Ru'ho Qadisho.
BaMshi'ho,
Davide

Davide,

Wasn't Clement of Alexandria an Egyptian who wrote in
Greek ? Greek was the language used to transmit the
New Testament and was the main language used by the
Fathers of the Church  up to about 800 for the
non-Greeks.
Most Greeks are not Christians; the rate of practise
among Greek nominal Christians is about 1/3 in Geece
and the diaspora. Greece like almost all of Europe is
an ex-Christian nation which legalized the murder of
the human person in the womb by abortion in 1983.

I have read a great deal in the Fathers for the past
26 years, though I'm certainly no expert  on the
Fathers.  I like to read all of them-Jewish, Syrian,
Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Armenian, Ethiopian, Persian,
Indian, Georgian, Irish, Spanish, etc.  The Church of
Our Lord Yshua Messiah is universal and contains
members of every nation, race and tongue on the globe.
In Trinity, our God,
Steve
--- Dŕvide Sivčro <davidetamara@...> wrote:
> I strongly suggest that Messrs. Dennehy and Sivčro
> spend some time
> studying the work of the Greek Fathers, who were
> well-acquainted with
> the philosophies of Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, etc.
>
> -I didn't reflected before now on these words, dear
> brother in
> Christ. Plato, Aristotle and Plotinus weren't
> Christians at all, they
> were Pagans, but, of course, a Pagan can have a
> valid thought. St.
> Augustine said that the Greeks had been given reason
> by the Lord,
> while the Jews had been given the Torah, the
> Revelation (which
> definitely is more important).
>
> It is the Greeks, not the Hebrews, who are the true
> spiritual
> forebears of Christianity, as St. Clement of
> Alexandria, for example,
> adequately attests.
>
> -Yes, it's very clear that most Jews didn't believe
> in Christ, while
> most Greeks do. Of course this doesn't contraddict
> at all the fact
> that there is NO difference before God between one
> people and another
> people, between Jews, Greeks, Syrians or anybody
> else.
> I suspect that our dear friend and brother in Christ
> Steve unproperly
> mixed hate against the Jews, hate against the
> Americans, hate against
> current American politics, hate against Israeli
> politics, hate
> against the death of innocent Arab people etc., but
> I wanted to share
> with him the thought that the Jews, as well as
> deserving the utmost
> respect as every other people created by God, can't
> be hated by any
> Christian who believes that God chose to incarnate
> as a Jewish man.
> BaMshi'ho,
> Davide
>
>
>
>
> ----------
> "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow
> to anger."
> (James 1:19)
> Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>      SOR-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>





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> Jesus as his manhood nature was a Jew but the jews didn't accept
him as saviour

Dear friend and brother in Christ, yes of course, the Jews as a
majority of the Jewish people, didn't, but the very first to accept
Him were Jews. I don't know whether this happens in the Syriac
Orthodox Church, but in other Christian Churches (ex.: the Orthodox
Church in communion with Konstandinopolis) there even are people who
belong to the Jewish people and to the Christian Faith. The Catholic
Church even have "qehillot shel minhag 'Ibrit", "communities of
Hebrew tradition", made of Jews belonging to the Roman Catholic
Church, and in Palestine there even is an auxiliary Bishop to the
Latin Patriarch for the Christian Jews, Hegmon Jean-Baptiste Gourion.

> God's people is the christians not jews

We know that Yisrael was God's people, now all the Christians,
whether Jews (as a people, not as a religious group, which would
imply the denying of Christian Truth) or non-Jews, are His people.

> Isreal nowadays are criminal state

I definitely agree with you. Of course that has nothing to do with
the fact that Moran Yeshu' Mshi'ho was a Jew, incarnated as a Jewish
man, that the early Church was Jewish (ethnical meaning of "Jewish",
not the religious one: they are two different meanings), that the
Jews have been God's chosen people, that the world wide (from
Palestine to any other country) dispersed people of Israel and the
state of Israel are two different things, that a Jew may hate Israeli
politics as we two do (and several Jews do so)...
BaMshi'ho,
Davide

Steve,

> God the Son became man, He became a Jewish man.  His
> Person is God the Son but he has a human nature- male
> and  Jewish Semitic Caucasian .

This statement is theologically unsound.  The Orthodox Church Fathers
unanimously hold that Christ was a single person (hupostasis) possessing two
natures, divine and human.  His human nature was not the specific,
individual nature of a single man; rather, as God-man, the New Adam, Christ
united the totality of human nature with divinity in His single hupostasis.
You are, of course, correct that the God-man existed in the 'person'
(prosopon) of a Jewish man at a particular time in history, but as St.
Athanasius affirms (in his De incarnatione), He never stopped functioning as
the Logos holding the universe together by the power of His divine will.  We
know from the New Testament that Christ unites all of humanity in His
person, so that we are no longer able to make distinctions between Jew and
Greek (Gentile), male and female, slave and free, etc.  Further, as the
Epistle to the Hebrews tells us, Christ is eternally the same.  He never
actually became a Jewish man; He simply assumed the role of one for the
purpose of establishing the Kingdom of God and the New Coveneant in a manner
that transcends ethnic division.  This He could not have accomplished, I
posit, if He did not possess the totality of human nature -- including Jews
but all other races as well -- in His person.

Perhaps we will understand each other better if we invoke the ancient
Sophistic distinction between nature (phusis) and convention (nomos).  Can
we agree that Christ was a Jew by covnention, but not by nature?

> The first Gospel to be written was Mathew which was
> written in Aranmaic Syrian as it was addressed to
> Aramaic speaking Syrian and Jewish Christians.

This is incorrect.  The first Gospel to be written was Mark, and the
language of composition was Greek.  I know of no archaeological or
manuscript evidence supporting the theory that the Gospels were originally
composed in Aramaic, or any other language but Greek.  Cf. Paul N. Tarazi,
_The New Testament: Introduction_, vol. 1, Paul and Mark (Crestwood, NY: St.
Vladimir's Seminary Press 1999).  On the original language of the Gospels
consult the various studies by Jaroslav Pelikan, for example.

That said, as an editor of the Orthodox journal _Theandros_, I invite you,
Steve, or anyone interested to submit an article arguing in favor of a
theory of original Aramaic composition.  Please see the link in my signature
for information on submitting, should you be so inclined.

In Christ,

Edward

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edward Moore, S.T.L., Ph.D. (candidate)
St. Elias School of Orthodox Theology
E-mail: emoore@...
Homepage: www.theandros.com/emoore

Theandros: An Online Journal of
Orthodox Christian Theology and
Philosophy
www.theandros.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Davide,

You wrote:

"I suspect that our dear friend and brother in Christ Steve unproperly
mixed hate against the Jews, hate against the Americans, hate against
current American politics, hate against Israeli politics, hate
against the death of innocent Arab people etc., but I wanted to share
with him the thought that the Jews, as well as deserving the utmost
respect as every other people created by God, can't be hated by any
Christian who believes that God chose to incarnate as a Jewish man."

"Hate" is a strong word, and I would be slow to accuse anyone of hatred,
especially someone like Steve, whom I know only through my limited contact
with him on this list -- which is to say I don't know him at all.  E-mail
forums are notoriously conducive to mis-understanding, and so I always try
to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I certainly agree with you: hatred is not to be tolerated by
Christians, against anyone.  However, we are permitted righteous
indignation.  And I am personally indignant over current Israeli policies,
as well as the policies of the administration of my country, the United
States.  Indignation is an intellectual comportment; hatred is the reaction
of the ignorant.  Steve is certainly not ignorant, so let us speak of his --
and my own (assuming I can be spared the label of ignoramus) -- indignation.

In Christ,

Edward

Davide,
Jesus is a Jew, Jesus is a man--God as man and will
always be a man, a Divine man.   Otherwise you end up
denying the Incarnation.  "What is not assumed is not
redeemed" (I think it was St. Athanasius who said
that.).  God the Son did not becaome man, then
transcend being a man, cease being a man. He restored
His human nature to a pre-fallen state in His glorious
resurrection, restoring our human nature in His.  He
ascended into the Father, deifying His human nature
and deifying our human nature in His.  In the
Ascension His human nature becomes Divine, it does not
cease to exist.
In Yeshua, the Divine Jew,
Steve
--- Dŕvide Sivčro <davidetamara@...> wrote:
> Jesus was not and is not a Jew!  He was incarnated
> as a Jewish man
>
> -I meant that.
>
> > Moreover, the Gospels were written in Greek, not
> Hebrew
>
> -Lots of scholars say that at least Mor Mattay's
> Gospel was written
> either in Aramaic or Hebrew, isn't that true? Anyhow
> I think it isn't
> a matter of dogma...
> The Greek Orthodox tradition says that the Aramaic
> or Hebrew parts of
> the New Testament were immediately translated into
> Greek under the
> guidance of the Ru'ho Qadisho.
> BaMshi'ho,
> Davide
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ----------
> "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow
> to anger."
> (James 1:19)
> Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>      SOR-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>





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I think this forum should encourage messages related to Syriac
resources and Orthodox church in general. Issues about ethnicity etc.
can be discussed on other relevant forums.

- Thomas

Dear brothers in Christ,
as you probably know Judaism has a set of rules about the absorption
of food into vessel and into other food which imply the prohibition
of eating permitted (kasher) food having absorbed either from
forbidden (taref) food or from something having absorbed from
forbidden food: for ex. kasher wet hot food, that touches an
earthenware plate that touched wet hot forbidden food, becomes
forbidden.
I suppose that such rules about absorption do not apply to the few
alimentary prohibitions of (Oriental Orthodox) Christianity (food
sacrificed to idols etc.), am I right?
Hoping that you can help me I thank you with all my heart.
May God reward and bless you.
BaMshi'ho,
Davide

Edward,
Jesus, from His conception in an egg in the womb of
the All-Holy Virgin Miriam is Spirit-Soul-Body, as are
all human persons.
His Spirit is His Person, His "I" (God the
Son/Word/Image), eternal and Divine.
His Soul is  perfect universal, but at the same time
is unique and individual.
His Body is male and ethnically Jewish Semitic
Caucasian.
He is One Lord Yeshua Messiah (Jesus Christ).

You state this correctly when you say He is a single
hypostasis (Person).

Your statement that"He never actually became a Jewish
man, He just assumed the role of one for the purpose
of establishing the Kingdom of God..."   strikes me as
Nestorian and Gnostic.  You seem to be denying the
Incarnation altogether.  I don't undertsand how you
could read St. Athanasius and come to that conclusion.

The tradition in the Church from ancient times is that
the Gospels are arranged in chronological order, in
the order in which they were written.  The Tradition
is that Mathew's was addressed to the Aramaic-Syriac
speaking Jewish and Syrian Christians, Luke to the
Greek speaking Christians and Mark to the Latin
speaking Christians.

It is always a mistake to subvert theology to
philosophy.  It is always a mistake to subvert God to
theology.  Dogmas are boundaries; they tell us where
to go, where not to go. But dogmas are not God,
statements about God are not God. ONLY GOD IS GOD.
God is Father-Jesus-Spirit, One in Essence and
undivided.
In Him,
Steve
--- Edward Moore <emoore@...> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> > God the Son became man, He became a Jewish man.
> His
> > Person is God the Son but he has a human nature-
> male
> > and  Jewish Semitic Caucasian .
>
> This statement is theologically unsound.  The
> Orthodox Church Fathers
> unanimously hold that Christ was a single person
> (hupostasis) possessing two
> natures, divine and human.  His human nature was not
> the specific,
> individual nature of a single man; rather, as
> God-man, the New Adam, Christ
> united the totality of human nature with divinity in
> His single hupostasis.
> You are, of course, correct that the God-man existed
> in the 'person'
> (prosopon) of a Jewish man at a particular time in
> history, but as St.
> Athanasius affirms (in his De incarnatione), He
> never stopped functioning as
> the Logos holding the universe together by the power
> of His divine will.  We
> know from the New Testament that Christ unites all
> of humanity in His
> person, so that we are no longer able to make
> distinctions between Jew and
> Greek (Gentile), male and female, slave and free,
> etc.  Further, as the
> Epistle to the Hebrews tells us, Christ is eternally
> the same.  He never
> actually became a Jewish man; He simply assumed the
> role of one for the
> purpose of establishing the Kingdom of God and the
> New Coveneant in a manner
> that transcends ethnic division.  This He could not
> have accomplished, I
> posit, if He did not possess the totality of human
> nature -- including Jews
> but all other races as well -- in His person.
>
> Perhaps we will understand each other better if we
> invoke the ancient
> Sophistic distinction between nature (phusis) and
> convention (nomos).  Can
> we agree that Christ was a Jew by covnention, but
> not by nature?
>
> > The first Gospel to be written was Mathew which
> was
> > written in Aranmaic Syrian as it was addressed to
> > Aramaic speaking Syrian and Jewish Christians.
>
> This is incorrect.  The first Gospel to be written
> was Mark, and the
> language of composition was Greek.  I know of no
> archaeological or
> manuscript evidence supporting the theory that the
> Gospels were originally
> composed in Aramaic, or any other language but
> Greek.  Cf. Paul N. Tarazi,
> _The New Testament: Introduction_, vol. 1, Paul and
> Mark (Crestwood, NY: St.
> Vladimir's Seminary Press 1999).  On the original
> language of the Gospels
> consult the various studies by Jaroslav Pelikan, for
> example.
>
> That said, as an editor of the Orthodox journal
> _Theandros_, I invite you,
> Steve, or anyone interested to submit an article
> arguing in favor of a
> theory of original Aramaic composition.  Please see
> the link in my signature
> for information on submitting, should you be so
> inclined.
>
> In Christ,
>
> Edward
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Edward Moore, S.T.L., Ph.D. (candidate)
> St. Elias School of Orthodox Theology
> E-mail: emoore@...
> Homepage: www.theandros.com/emoore
>
> Theandros: An Online Journal of
> Orthodox Christian Theology and
> Philosophy
> www.theandros.com
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ----------
> "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow
> to anger."
> (James 1:19)
> Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>      SOR-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>





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Thomas,

We are not discussing ethnicity, we are discussing the
Person of Lord Jesus Christ--the point of the Syrian
Orthodox Church and of any believing Christian.
Steve
--- Thomas P <thomas_pa1@...> wrote:
> I think this forum should encourage messages related
> to Syriac
> resources and Orthodox church in general. Issues
> about ethnicity etc.
> can be discussed on other relevant forums.
>
> - Thomas
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ----------
> "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow
> to anger."
> (James 1:19)
> Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>      SOR-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>





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Dear All,

If you have the address of our church/congregation in London, U.K. or
the contact person/numbers, Kindly let me know.

Regards
George

Dŕvide -

I am unaware of the rules you allude to. However, in Kerala (India)
until about 75 years ago, it was customary at the beginning of the
periods of lent among the Syrian Orthodox to keep aside any vessels
used in the cooking of non-vegetarian food and use special
earthenware for lenten food preparation. I am not sure of the origins
of the practice and whether such a custom was indigenous or
originated from the church in the Near East.

Thomas Joseph, Ph.D.
Moderator, SOR-Forum


--- In SOR-Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dŕvide Sivčro <davidetamara@t...>
wrote:
> Dear brothers in Christ,
> as you probably know Judaism has a set of rules about the
absorption
> of food into vessel and into other food which imply the prohibition
> of eating permitted (kasher) food having absorbed either from
> forbidden (taref) food or from something having absorbed from
> forbidden food: for ex. kasher wet hot food, that touches an
> earthenware plate that touched wet hot forbidden food, becomes
> forbidden.
> I suppose that such rules about absorption do not apply to the few
> alimentary prohibitions of (Oriental Orthodox) Christianity (food
> sacrificed to idols etc.), am I right?
> Hoping that you can help me I thank you with all my heart.
> May God reward and bless you.
> BaMshi'ho,
> Davide

Mardin. The second International Symposium of Religions and Peace in
the Light of the Common Ancestor (Abraham) or the "Harran Meetings",
organized by the Intercultural Dialogue Platform of Journalists and
Authors Foundation (JAF), took place in Mardin last week.

The conference, which is supported by the Turkish Ministry of Culture
and Tourism, Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality, Governorship of
Mardin and Mardin Education Foundation (MAREV), was held in the
Qasimiye (Qasimiyya) Madrasa. Topics such as "Peace in Abraham's
Message", "Peace in the Abrahamic Tradition", "Heroes of Peace in the
Three Heavenly Religions", "The Place of the Abrahamic Message in the
Future World" were discussed in four sessions. 28 academics and 11
religious leaders from Germany, U.S., Sweden, England, Italy, France
and Turkey participated at the symposium.

The Deyrulzaferan Monastery (Kurkmo Dayro, erstwhile seat of the
Syrian Orthodox Patriarch), and the monasteries of Mor Gabriel in the
Midyat district and Mor Yaqub in the Nisbin district as well as
Hasankeyf were visited by the participants. The program in Mardin
concluded with a visit to the tomb and Mosque of Zeynel Abidin. The
participants then travelled to Istanbul to complete the symposium.

Vice-Director of the Religious Affairs Muhammet Sevki Aydin, Istanbul
Mufti Dr. Mustafa Cagrici, Istanbul Greek Orthodox Patriarch
Bartholomeos, Turkey's Armenians Patriarch Mesrob II, Turkey's Jewish
Chief Rabbi Rav. Ishak Haleva, Roman Catholic Apostolic Vicar in
Istanbul Monsignor Georges Marovitch, Latin Catholic Congregation
Spiritual Leader Monsignor Louis Pelatre, the Syrian Orthodox
Community Metropolit Filksinos Yusuf Cetin and the Assyrian Catholic
Community Patriarchal Vicar Chorbishop Yusuf Sag participated in the
symposium. The first of the International Symposia of Religions and
Peace in the Light of the Common Ancestor Abraham (Harran Meetings)
was held in the Harran district of Sanliurfa - the place of birth of
the Prophet Abraham- between April 13 and 16, 2000.

al-Zaman
by Mustafa Ozge

Dear brother in Christ, I thank you with all my heart for your
answer!
In Judaism there is a set of rules which say when something (ex. a
kitchen vessel) absorbs "taref" (=which must not be eaten)
substance. For ex. hot wet taref food istantaneously is absorbed
into a vessel when it touches it, and "kasher" (=which can be eaten)
food istantaneously becomes taref when it is wet, hot and touches a
vessel having absorbed taref food. Taref substances having been
absorbed by for ex. a kitchen vessel can sometimes been removed
depending on what the vessel is made of: for ex. taref absorbed
substance cannot be removed from earthenware vessels but can be
removed from metal vessels by boiling them.
It seems to me that such absorption rules do not apply to the few
alimentary prohibitions of Christianity (ex. to vessel having
touched hot wet idolatrous sacrifical meat; I also suspect
that "Oriental" Orthodoxy forbids to eat blood as "Byzantine"
Orthodoxy does...), am I right?
Thank you all!!!
BaMshi'ho,
Davide

The Mardin Rendezvous

Ali Bulac
Zaman Newspaper
15 May 2004
Turkey

The second of the 'inter-religions dialogue' meetings, after the
first one held in Harran, Urfa four years ago, took place in Mardin.
The opening of the second meeting, entitled, "Inter-Cultural
Dialogue/Mardin Meeting," was held in Kasimiyye Madrasah, Mardin and
ended with a tour of Mardin city center, Midyat and Nusaybin. The
symposium session of the meeting continues today and tomorrow in
Istanbul.


Holding the first two meetings in Harran and Mardin has a meaning. In
the first meeting, the religious and historical framework under which
the three celestial religions should come together around was taken
up. Prophet Abraham was determined as the common ancestor, and a
general consensus was reached by the followers of the three religions
on the common standard. Therefore, the first meeting was a
theoretical search in a sense. But of course, it is a 'practical
issue' how the followers of different religions will come together,
how they will view the serious crises that our world, and
particularly our region, have passed through, and on what effective
level they will convey messages of peace and cooperation. If a
targeted thought had not been implemented at first, concrete
possibilities are being sought for the realization of this theory. A
concrete possibility is directly related to time and experience.
Whereas, we had a concrete living example of this issue, and that is
the crucial experience of the different ethnic and religious groups
that lived together in Mardin for hundreds of years.

Mardin has come to agenda in recent years for various reasons. Mardin
is a concrete example of how to live together without clashes in our
world, where the clashes are growing more violent, and gradually
moving towards destructive dimensions; it is an epitome of a living
tradition. Even though the Jewish population emigrated to other
places from the beginning of the first quarter of this century, there
is still a 'Jewish neighborhood' in people's minds. Assyrians still
maintain their existence with various sects. Besides, it is possible
to see the influence of the different cultures in the architectures
and stone carvings in the city. From this angle, it was very
appropriate to choose Mardin to host this year's meeting. In
addition, local and international guests touring the city could not
hide their astonishment and admiration. Some said, "We did not think
that there could be a such city keeping these cultures alive."

The organization was perfect. However, both in Mardin and Midyat as
well as Nusaybin, Assyrian churches and historical sites were somehow
brought to the fore. It is certain that there are very many important
Assyrian sites in Mardin; everybody is proud of protecting and
carrying them to this day. However, there are also as many Islamic
historical sites, even more than the others. Mardin came under the
rule of Islam in the early ages. Muslims embarked on tracing history
during the era stretching from the Emevis to the Ottomans. From
mosques to madrasahs, from bazaars to hamams... The Mardin Ulu
Mosque, Sehidiye Mosque, Latifiye Mosque, Zinciriye Madrasah and many
other important masterpieces. Somehow, none of them were put in the
program and some Muslim participants, for example Istanbul Mufti
Mustaf Cagrici, said that they could not see the Islamic traces even
though they had wished to, and thus they were saddened. Some conveyed
their complaints to me personally. They said, "It was as if we walked
around an Assyrian church. We couldn't see anything except the
Christian motifs." If the concrete examples of the fact that
religions can live peacefully together were to be shown, the sites of
the two religions should have been put in the program and we should
have been shown the traditions of both religions.

Dear friends,
I suggest to visit, for who can, the exhibition about the mandylion
held in the diocesan museum of the Latin cathedral of my city:
www.diocesi.genova.it/museodiocesano/mandylion.php
If someone could...
BaMshi'ho,
Davide