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#151 From: Steve Dennehy <svjd@...>
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2001 10:29 pm
Subject: Tabernacles
svjd@...
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I'll try this again.

Where are the Tabernacles located in Syriac Orthodox
Churches ?
What do they look like ?
How do you express worship of Lord Jesus in His
Eucharistic Presence in the Tabernacle (Roman
Catholics genuflect, Greek-Rite Orthodox bow , etc.)?

I'm surprised not to have recieved an answer to
questions any practising Syriac Orthodox person could
answer, without looking anything up, with very little
effort.

Steve

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

#152 From: "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2001 9:49 am
Subject: Christian-Muslim Joint Statement
daniel_reji@...
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Inroads Interfaith and Innerfaith Ministry
 
Standing Conference of Middle Eastern Christian and Muslim Religious Leaders
For Immediate Release:
September 13, 2001
 
We were very saddened and shocked, like all American citizens and decent people around the world, by the devastating and horrible attack against the United States of America.
 
It has come to our attention that some Arab Americans in various cities such as Brooklyn, New York; Paterson, New Jersey; Boston, Massachusetts; Detroit, Michigan; Dallas, Texas; Los Angeles, California; San Francisco, California and other cities have been victims of psychological terrorism, i.e. threatening and obscene phone calls, etc.  This is indeed very disturbing and blatant discrimination.  Arab Americans are very loyal citizens and strongly committed to the eternal ideals and principles of freedom, peace and justice on which our
country was founded.  Many of them have died for America in the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean and Viet Nam Wars. Let us not forget that Arab American also died in the World Trade Center explosion and some were on the hijacked planes.
 
As Arab American religious leaders from Middle Eastern background, we want everyone to know that the members of our constituencies, Christians and Muslims alike, are people of faith.  Neither Christianity nor Islam condones violence and terrorism.  As a matter of fact many Arab people in the Middle East have been victims of individual, group and state terrorism for the past fifty-four years.
 
Therefore, this is not a time to point fingers and accuse innocent people of violence and evil acts.  When we overcome our grief and after the dust settles, let us as intelligent Americans ask ourselves, who is behind this horrific act and why this act was committed?  These are the important questions which should be answered in depth.  Then and only then, will we know the facts and the real cause of terrorism.
 
May the souls of our sisters and brothers who have perished in this catastrophe rest in peace and may God protect and bless America.
 
Metropolitan Philip, Chairman  Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Bishop Stephen Doueihi, Eparchary of Saint Maron of Brooklyn
Archbishop John A. Elya, Diocese of Newton
Sheikh Sami T. Merhi, Druze Council of North America
Sheikh Hamad Ahmad Chebli, Islamic Society of Central New Jersey
Archbishop Cyril Aphrem Karim, Syrian Orthodox Church
Imam Fadhel Al-Sahlani, Imam Al-Khoei Islamic Center
 
Cc: All US Government Officials


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#153 From: thomas_joseph@...
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2001 4:26 am
Subject: Re: Tabernacles
thomas_joseph@...
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Mr. Dennehy,

Much happened in the US and around the world since Sep 10th when you
first posted this message, that responding to a SOR-Forum message was
not the priority for most of us... It is perfectly fine to be
persistent, but I would request you to be more sensitive in your
messages to the list.

As far as I know, traditionally Syriac Orthodox Churches (in India)
store any host left over from the celebration of the divine mysteries
in a pyx which is also used for carrying the host for administering
last rites. Some of the more modern Syriac Orthodox Churches in India
have a tabernacle placed on the altar ledge; however, I don't believe
that it is very typical. I have seen tabernacles in Syriac Orthodox
Churches in the Middle Eastern diaspora but I am not sure whether the
tabernacle is standard.

The Syriac Orthodox make the sign of the cross as they come into the
church and in front of the altar. In addition, they may also bow
their heads in front of the altar.

As an aside, while the Syriac Orthodox prostrate during regular
prayer services, they do not prostrate on Sunday (starting Saturday
evening prayers to Sunday ninth hour prayers including the divine
liturgy) as well as between Easter and Pentecost, the days
commemorating and celebrating the ressurection of Christ.

Thomas Joseph


--- In SOR-Forum@y..., Steve Dennehy <svjd@y...> wrote:
> I'll try this again.
>
> Where are the Tabernacles located in Syriac Orthodox
> Churches ?
> What do they look like ?
> How do you express worship of Lord Jesus in His
> Eucharistic Presence in the Tabernacle (Roman
> Catholics genuflect, Greek-Rite Orthodox bow , etc.)?
>
> I'm surprised not to have recieved an answer to
> questions any practising Syriac Orthodox person could
> answer, without looking anything up, with very little
> effort.
>
> Steve
>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

#154 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:48 pm
Subject: Rise up, O Children of Light
daniel_reji@...
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Open to us, Lord, your great Door, 0 Fountain of all mercy, hear our
prayer and have mercy on our souls. Lord of the morning and ruler of
all seasons, hear our prayer and have mercy on our souls. Shine upon
me, Lord, and I shall be Light like the day; I will sing your praise
in Light while I marvel; may the morning awaken me to the praise of
your Godhead and I will pursue the study of your Word all the day
long. With the day may your Light shine on our thoughts and may it
drive away the shadows of error from our souls. The creation is full
of Light, give Light also to our hearts that they may praise you with
the day and the night.

(Syrian Orthodox Prayer)

Rise up, 0 children of Light, and let us give glory to the Lord who
alone can save our souls. 0 Lord, as you withdraw sleep from the eyes
of our body, grant us wakefulness of mind so that we may stand before
you in awe and sing your praises worthily.

(Syrian Orthodox Prayer)

#155 From: "George Kiraz" <gkiraz@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 10:45 pm
Subject: Mardu Newsletter
gkiraz@...
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Mardu is the official newsletter of Beth Mardutho. Mardu is sent via mail to the Friends of Beth Mardutho. The first issue of Mardu is made available on the Beth Mardutho site as an example (in PDF format). To receive Mardu regularly, along with many other benefits, sign up and join the Friends of Beth Mardutho at http://www.bethmardutho.org/HelpUs/default.html.

You can read the first issue of Mardu on http://www.bethmardutho.org (click on Mardu Newsletter), but don't forget to sign up to receive the subsequent issues.

George Kiraz

--------------------------
George A. Kiraz, Ph.D.
Beth Mardutho: The Syriac Institute
http://www.BethMardutho.org
 
Read Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies: http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye

#156 From: "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 6:19 am
Subject: 316th Dhukhorono of Maphriyono
daniel_reji@...
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3-Oct-2001

316th     'Dhukhorono' of  'Maphriyono'

Please visit

http://www.geocities.com/ti2001in/MalankaraNews_2_Oct_01.htm



#157 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2001 5:09 am
Subject: Religious Harmony
daniel_reji@...
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The World  'Islamic-Christian'  Summit started in Rome from 3-Oct- 2001

From the 'The Hindu' daily published on 4th October, The Syriac Orthodox Church was represented by Mor Gregorious, the Syriac Orthodox Metropolitan of the Archdiocese of Aleppo, Syria.

http://www.geocities.com/ti2001in/Hindu_4_oct_01.htm



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#158 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:28 pm
Subject: Preparatory Meeting for the Anglican-Oriental Orthodox International Commission
daniel_reji@...
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Under the co-chairmanship of His Eminence Metropolitan Bishoy of
Damiette of the Coptic Orthodox Church, and the Rt Revd Dr Geoffrey
Rowell, Bishop-Designate of Gibraltar in Europe (the Church of
England Diocese in Europe), Anglican and Oriental Orthodox
representatives, delegated by their Churches, met to consider the
recommendations of the Lambeth Conferences of 1988 and 1998 and
decisions of Oriental Orthodox Churches that the Anglican-Oriental
Orthodox dialogue be upgraded from a Forum (1985-1993) to a Commission

For more details please visit
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/documents/aooic/200107.html

#159 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:55 pm
Subject: The Everlasting Supper?
daniel_reji@...
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by Roy Hange, Mennonite Central Committee Syria.

AIn the Christian Quarter of Old Damascus, 20 yards from the street
called "Straight," thirteen of us gathered around the long table in
the vaulted dining room of the Syrian Orthodox Seminary. Our simple,
evening meal began with the prayer Jesus taught chanted in a dialect
of the language Jesus spoke, Syriac. The Lord's Prayer was lead by
the spiritual director of the seminary, a gentle and wise monk named
Father Issa. The English equivalent of his name is Jesus.
Father "Jesus" sat at the head of the table which happened to include
12 others that evening. The dining room was framed by two pictures of
the Lord's Supper.

To read more please visit.....
http://www.mcc.org/ask-a-vet/supper.html

#160 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 4:34 pm
Subject: Religious leaders tour firebombed churches in Sydney...
daniel_reji@...
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Molotov cocktails have been thrown through church windows at
Lidcombe's St John Vianney Church, Greenacre Memorial Uniting Church
and the St Ephreim Syrian Orthodox Church under construction at
Lidcombe.

Pro-bin Laden slogans such as "Osama bin Laden is Great", "Muslims
Rule" and "Kill Jews 1 by 1" were spray-painted on the Syrian
Orthodox church.

For more details please visit....
http://news.f2.com.au/2001/10/12/FFXROCSVOSC.html

#161 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 2:45 pm
Subject: The Holiest site of Christendom
daniel_reji@...
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But you muster your courage and venture inside. You see a Greek
Orthodox monk lighting candles. You hear the Armenian Orthodox choir
singing their Liturgy. You pass by a small chapel where a Copt
Orthodox priest devoutly says his prayer and nearby a Syrian Orthodox
monk recites his. You continue on and meet a Franciscan friar
preparing an altar for the celebration of the mass.

This is too much for your pious expectations. Where have you ended
up? Is this the place that has played such an important role during
the centuries? Is this what you had expected to see? But then, all of
a sudden it dawns on you and it starts to sink in.

To find out were you are.... please visit.....
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/jhs/TSspintr.html

#162 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 3:17 pm
Subject: Fr. Thomas Varghese Mullamkuzhy, Omalloor
daniel_reji@...
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Fr. Thomas Varghese Mullamkuzhy, Omalloor (37) one of the eminent
young priests of Southern Diocese of Malankara was called to the
heavenly abode on Friday afternoon (12th October 2001).

George Varghese
Kuwait
varghese@...

#163 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 10:43 am
Subject: The Three Stages of Spiritual Life
daniel_reji@...
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The Three Stages of Spiritual Life

Joseph the Visionary, An Introduction

JOSEPH HAZZAYA, or the Visionary, was born into a Zoroastrian family
some time around 710. As a child of seven he was taken captive during
a raid, to be sold first to an Arab, and then to a Christian in the
region of mount Qardu (north Iraq). Impressed by the example of some
local monks, he sought baptism, and when his owner subsequently
liberated him, Joseph became a monk himself. For two separate periods
in his monastic life he lived as a solitary, but he also twice served
as abbot of a community.

Joseph has left a considerable number of writings, some of which were
circulated under the name of his brother and fellow monk, Abdisho. A
number of these writings were included by A. Mingana in his
work "Early Christian Mystics." Among his Letters is an important one
on the three stages or degrees of the spiritual life, wrongly
attributed in the manuscript tradition to Philoxenus. Although the
pattern is based on John of Apamea's threefold division, Joseph
adapts it to incorporate features from other writers, including
Evagrius; we thus have the following main correspondences:

(1) The first stage is that of the body (pagranuta); this is
concerned with external practices, fastings, vigils, and prayer
centered on psalmody and readings. This corresponds to the cenobitic
life and is symbolized by the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt
(i.e. the world) and their passage through the wilderness; it also
represents the state of a servant who is subject to commandments. The
aim is purity, and the stage corresponds to the Evagrian praktike and
the Dionysian 'purification'.

(2) The stage of the soul (nafshanuta) belongs especially to the
solitary life, and is concerned above all with the practice of the
interior virtues, in particular humility. The transition from the
stage of the body to that of the soul corresponds to the crossing by
the Israelites of the river Jordan, and the ensuing fight with evil
demons reflects the Israelites' fight with the inhabitants of the
Land of Promise. This is the state of a worker who awaits his daily
pay. The aim is 'limpidity' or 'transparency' (shafyuta), and this
stage corresponds to the Evagrian 'natural contemplation' and the
Dionysian 'illumination'.

(3) The third stage, that of the spirit (ruhanuta), is concerned
primarily with the activities of the mind; it constitutes the entry
into 'perfection' (or 'full maturity'), and represents 'the glorious
Zion'. This is the state of a son (and no longer that of a servant or
worker), and the most characteristic feature of it is the vision of
the Formless Light of the Trinity and of the Risen Christ. This stage
corresponds to the Evagrian theologia and the
Dionysian 'unification'.

Two excerpts from Joseph's works are translated here. The first is a
short unpublished text on 'spiritual prayer'. Joseph's description of
this exalted form of prayer indicates that he has in mind something
rather different from Isaac's 'spiritual prayer'. The second excerpt
(transmitted under the name of Abdisho) is taken from a longer work
of advanced teaching on prayer entitled 'On the stirrings, or
impulses, of the mind during prayer'. Here Joseph compares the soul
to a ship at sea with the mind as the helmsman, trying to cope with
the various winds, which are the impulses which arise in the mind
during prayer. A detailed analysis of the different kinds of impulses
is given, and the extract ends with a description of the vision of
the Light of the Holy Trinity.  (to be continued)

Sebastian Brock, "The Syriac Fathers On Prayer and the Spiritual
Life," Cistercian Publications

#164 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:19 pm
Subject: Body of St. Luke - Gains Credibility
daniel_reji
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NEW YORK TIMES
'Body of St. Luke' Gains Credibility
October 16, 2001
By NICHOLAS WADE

A new DNA analysis gives tentative support to the belief that the
remains in an ancient lead coffin are those of St. Luke,
traditionally considered the author of the third Gospel and the Acts
of the Apostles.

Dr. Guido Barbujani, a population geneticist at the University of
Ferrara, Italy, has extracted DNA from a tooth in the coffin. He
concluded that the DNA was characteristic of people living near the
region of Antioch, on the eastern Mediterranean, where Luke is said
to have been born. Radiocarbon dating of the tooth indicates that
it belonged to someone who died between 72 A.D. and 416 A.D.

A report by Dr. Barbujani and colleagues appears today in the
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States.

The Evangelist, according to ancient sources, was a physician who was
born in Antioch and died at 84 in about 150 A.D. in the Greek city of
Thebes. The coffin with his remains was taken to Constantinople, the
capitol of the Byzantine empire, in 338 A.D. and later moved to Padua,
Italy.

Dr. Barbujani and his colleagues speculate that the coffin may have
been sent out of Constantinople for safekeeping, either during the
reign of the Emperor Julian, who tried to restore paganism, or during
the iconoclast period of the eighth century, when many religious
images and objects were destroyed.

The coffin is known to have been in Padua at least since 1177 A.D. It
was placed in a marble sarcophagus and kept in the Basilica of Santa
Giustina. It was last opened in 1562 A.D. and seems to have been
somewhat ignored until October 1992. At that time the bishop of
Padua, Antonio Mattiazzo, received a letter from Hieronymos, the
Orthodox Metropolitan of Thebes, asking that part of the relics to
be donated to the site of Luke's tomb in Thebes.

Bishop Mattiazzo, according to an article in November 2000 in Traces,
a Catholic journal, decided to investigate the relics under the
leadership of Dr. Vito Terribile Viel Marin, a pathologist at the
University of Padua. In 1998 the 400-year-old seals were removed from
the lead coffin, and the study began.

The dimensions of the coffin exactly fit the tomb in Thebes onsidered
to be Luke's. In the coffin was a skeleton, but not the skull.

Dr. Barbujani and his colleagues say the body appears to have
decomposed in the coffin because of matching insect marks on the lead
and the pelvis, which has fused to the lead.

The spread in the radiocarbon dating indicates at least two
possibilities. One is that the body is that of Luke or a man who died
at the same time, the other is that for some reason, a new body was
put in the coffin in Constantinople around 300 A.D.

To help distinguish between the two, Dr. Barbujani, an expert on the
genetics of European populations, analyzed fragments of DNA from the
tooth, a canine, found on the floor of the coffin, and sought to
compare them with likely living representatives of the ancient
populations of Antioch and of Constantinople. An Antioch match would
suggest the body could be Luke's.

Since the present population of Antioch includes many Kurds, Dr.
Barbujani sampled the DNA of Syrians from nearby Aleppo. In place of
the inhabitants of ancient Constantinople, now Istanbul, he tested
Greeks from Attica and Crete.

The DNA from the Padua tooth, a type inherited only through the
mother's line, turned out to resemble Syrian DNA more than Greek DNA.

"Our data tell us the body is absolutely compatible with a Syrian
origin," he said. "But I am aware of the limitations of the DNA data,
and though a broad spectrum of ages is possible, the most likely is
300 A.D." Hence both possibilities should remain open, he said.

The body, if indeed it is Luke's, has experienced a simpler voyage
through history than the head, which was removed by the Emperor
Charles IV in 1354 and taken from Padua to Prague, where it rests in
the Cathedral of St. Vitus, in the Prague Castle.

"There were officially two heads of St. Luke, one at Prague and one
in Rome," Dr. Barbujani said. At Bishop Mattiazzo's request, the
Prague skull was brought to Padua and found to fit perfectly to the
topmost neck bone. The tooth, found on the floor of the coffin, also
fit into the right socket in the jawbone.

Though many relics turn out to be forgeries, executed in modern or
medieval times as demand arose, the Padua body seems more likely than
most to be what it is claimed to be, although exact proof is lacking.

"I think we should accept that there is no way to tell if it was the
Evangelist Luke, but the genetic evidence does not contradict the
idea," Dr. Barbujani said.

Last October, according to the Traces article, at least part of the
body completed the circle to its original resting place. Bishop
Mattiazzo sent a rib from the skeleton for Metropolitan Hieronymus to
place in the empty Theban tomb.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/16/science/social/16TOOT.html?
ex=1004247402&ei=1&en=b4f1265f564f16fe

If you have trouble getting access to this article in the NY Times,
try the BBC site which has another article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk

Zoom down to the bottom and look for SCI/TECH (with photographs of
Saint Luke's teeth)

#165 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 6:42 am
Subject: News from Malankara
daniel_reji
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Mon Oct 22, 2001 11:42pm A young Deacon dies in an accident Rev. Deacon Eldo Peter of Malankara Syrian Orthodox Theological Seminary (25) died in a motorbike accident. For two years he was in Damascus at the Patriachate and had recently returned to Malankara to joined M.S.O.T.S. Our heartfelt condolences to his family. "Who ever lives and believes in me shall never die," said our Lord – May God give eternal peace to the departed soul and courage to the family. For Malayalam language news story his photograph please visit….. http://www.geocities.com/ti2001in/MMNews_23_Oct_01.htm In Our Lords Love Thomas Daniel -------- Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 4:27am 3rd Nov, 2001. Holy Qurbono was celebrated by nine Metropolitans Of Malankara at Mulunthuruthy Mar Thoman church, Kerala, India, in connection with the centenary celebrations of St. Gregorios 100th dukhrono. To view the picture, please visit http://www.malankarachurch.org/PARUMALA/Mass.htm

#166 From: "Gabriel Rabo" <grabo@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 7:25 pm
Subject: In Teaneck, a Syrian Orthodox cathedral mourns those lost on Sept. 11
grabo30
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SOLNews - There is an articel about the Syrian Orthodox cathedral in USA, in: The Record N.J. News, Oct 29, 2001.

Gabriel Rabo

In Teaneck, a Syrian Orthodox cathedral mourns those lost on Sept. 11

Monday, October 29, 2001

By CHARLES AUSTIN
Staff Writer

In accordance with ancient tradition calling for a memorial service about 40 days after a death, Syrian Orthodox Christians from throughout New Jersey gathered in Teaneck on Saturday night to mourn those lost in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The solemn service at St. Mark's Syrian Orthodox Cathedral was conducted in English and Aramaic, the language the church uses for worship. Although the Syrian Orthodox are deeply rooted in the culture of their ancestors, the memorial service had a decidedly American flavor. Boy Scouts carrying an American flag preceded several dozen clergy down the center aisle of the packed cathedral. The service closed with everyone singing "God Bless America."

The Syrian Orthodox Church traces its lineage to the cities of Jerusalem and Damascus and the earliest days of Christianity. Membership is estimated at about 40,000 nationwide. Its New Jersey parishes are in Teaneck, Hackensack, Mahwah, and Paramus, and many of the families have been in Bergen County for decades.

Still, some have felt hostility directed against Middle Easterners since the attacks.

"There have been some glares and sneers," said Sama Khalef, an usher at the Teaneck cathedral. "We felt it also during the Gulf war 10 years ago."

In Syria -- a predominantly Muslim country -- the Orthodox are sometimes maligned for being associated with unwanted influences from "the Christian West."

Teaneck-based Archbishop Cyril Aphrem Karim, one of the church's three archbishops in North America, read a letter signed by all three. The letter asked for prayers for the victims, their families, and rescue workers. "We ask almighty God to grant the leaders of the United States strength, wisdom, and patience in their pursuit to bring the perpetrators of the horrendous crimes to justice," he said.

Holding the ornate staff symbolizing his office, the archbishop said he grieved for those who are "victims of ignorance and intolerance."

"But through their deaths," he added "they have taught us the value of life. Evil people may kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul."

New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, whose wife is Syrian Orthodox and who was married in the Teaneck cathedral, told worshipers that although Sept. 11 will be seen as "our darkest day," it also will be remembered as a day when thousands were saved by the efforts of police officers and firefighters "who didn't ask about race or religion or the color of skin" before entering the doomed towers.

The Rev. John Peter Meno, rector of the Teaneck cathedral, read additional greetings from Patriarch Ignatius Zakka I of Damascus, head of the worldwide church body.

"At this time of mourning," the patriarch wrote, "we pray God to grant your leaders wisdom that in their pursuit of justice, they may not afflict suffering on other innocent people. We also ask all of you to be God's agents of peace and reconciliation and to remind everybody that evil can only be overcome by goodness."

Members of the congregation were dressed in black. Some wore red, white, and blue ribbons, and several women wore scarves in the same colors. Uniformed Boy Scouts stood at attention throughout the service.

A choir sang from the balcony in both English and Aramaic.

Among the dignitaries were Teaneck Deputy Mayor Emil "Yitz" Stern and Councilwoman Marie Warnke. Stern read a letter of commendation from the council, praising the cathedral for its special attention to memorial prayers following the Sept. 11 attacks.

After the hour-long worship, Archbishop Karim said the Syrian Orthodox Church was taking steps to make itself better known as "proud Arab Americans and faithful Christians."

 

_____________________________________
 
 
Department of Syrian Church History
Faculty of Theology
University of Göttingen/Germany
_____________________________________

#167 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 12:27 pm
Subject: Parumala Bava
daniel_reji
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Holy Qurbono celebrated by Nine Metropolitans Of Malankara at
Mulunthuruthy Mar Thoman church, Kerala, India. In connection with
the preliminary concluding session of the centenary celebrations of
St. Gregorios Bawa -  3rd Nov, 2001.
To view the picture, please visit
http://www.malankarachurch.org/PARUMALA/Mass.htm

#168 From: maurnicus@...
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2001 2:43 pm
Subject: syriac orthodox catechism
maurnicus@...
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Do we have a catechism?
If so, do we have any English translations of it?

Thanks,
mike

#169 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 11:20 am
Subject: Information on Holy Muron
daniel_reji
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Can anyone help with this request?
Thomas Daniel

---
From: amethystcatII@...
Reply-To: brendan99us@yahoogroups.com
To: brendan99us@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [brendan99us] Information on Holy Muron
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 04:56:41 -0000

I'm looking for information regarding the Concocting and Blessing of Holy Muron. The Syrian or Armenian Rites are those I seek most. The recipe, prayers, rites, vestments, etc. In English, preferrably
Thank you
Amethyst Cat

#170 From: "Gabriel Rabo" <grabo@...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:05 pm
Subject: Patriarch Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas consecrates Mor Yuhanun Church in Delmenhorst (Germany)
grabo30
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Patriarch Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas consecrates Mor Yuhanun Church in Delmenhorst (Germany)

SOLNews - (Delmenhorst, November 4, 2001) . On the occasion of today’s „Feast of Church Consecration“, His Holiness Mor Ignatius Zakka I. Iwas, Patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch, consecrated the Syrian Orthodox church Mor Yuhanun da-Kfone in Delmenhorst (Germany). More than 3000 Syrian Orthodox from all over Germany and other countries as well as many guests from Protestant and Catholic churches and political parties attended the ceremony. Among them were the Bishop of the syrian orthodox diocese in Germany Mor Dionysius Isa Gürbüz, the Metropolitan for Central Europe Mor Julius Jeshu Çiçek, Mor Dioskoros Benjamen Atas of Sweden, the former catholic bishop of Vechta Max Georg Freiherr von Twickel, the Member of Parliament Holger Ortel, the Member of State Parliament Harald Groth and the Mayor of Delmenhorst Carsten Schwettmann.

The Patriarch travelled from Damascus for this special occasion and arrived in Germany on October 29. On November 1, he met with leaders of the „Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland“ (EKD) in Hannover. Yesterday, the head of the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antiochia followed an invitation by Mayor Schwettmann to visit the City Hall, where he signed the „Golden Book“ of the city of Delmenhorst. He was accompanied by the bishops Mor Dionysius I. Gürbüz and Mor Julius J. Çiçek as well as by leading members of the local Syrian Orthodox church.

Construction work on the 6000 square meter property started 16 months ago. The total costs for the new church of Mor Juhanun da-Kfone and the adjourning community center with its large celebration room were about four million German Marks. The enterprise was financed by a loan as well as by donations from Syrian Orthodox Aramaens from all over Germany. The city of Delmenhorst itself donated 40000 Marks for the new youth center.

The Delmenhorst church consists of approximately 240 Syrian Orthodox families, 70% of which originately emigrated from the village of Mzizah in Tur Abdin (south-eastern Turkey). The new place of worship offers space for approximately 800 attendants. The old prayer room. located in a former industrial building, was sold in order to finance the new church building.

Gabriel Rabo

Info in Suryoyo Online's News: http://www.suryoyo-online.org/news/


Patriarch Mor Ignatius Zakka I. Iwas weihte Mor Juhanun-Kirche in Delmenhorst ein

SOLNews - (Delmenhorst, 4.11.2001) . S.H. Mor Ignatius Zakka I. Iwas, Patriarch der Syrisch-Orthodoxen Kirche von Antiochien, hat zum heutigen "Fest der Kirchweihe" die syrisch-orthodoxe Mor Juhanun da-Kfone-Kirche in Delmenhorst (Deutschland) geweiht. An der Feierlichkeit nahmen über 3000 syrisch-orthodoxe Aramäer aus ganz Deutschland und benachbarten Ländern, und Gäste der evangelischen und katholischen Kirchen sowie aus der Politik teil. Neben dem Diözesanbischof Mor Dionysius Isa Gürbüz waren u.a. der Erzbischof von Mitteleuropa Mor Julius Jeshu Çiçek, Mor Dioskoros Benjamen Atas von Schweden, der ehemalige katholische Weihbischof von Vechta Max Georg Freiherr von Twickel, der Bundestagsabgeordnete Holger Ortel, der Landtagsabgeordnete Harald Groth sowie der Oberbürgermeister von Delmenhorst Carsten Schwettmann anwesend.

Der Patriarch reiste am 29. Oktober 2001 eigens für diese Feierlichkeit aus Damaskus an. Am 1. November 2001 stattete er der Evangelischen Kirche in Deutschland (EKD) in Hannover einen Besuch ab. Gestern wurde das Oberhaupt der Syrisch-Orthodoxen Kirche in Begleitung der beiden Bischöfen Mor Dionysius I. Gürbüz und Mor Julius J. Çiçek sowie der Leitung der Kirchengemeinde von Oberbürgermeister Schwettmann im Delmenhorster Rathaus empfangen, wo er sich im Goldenen Buch der Stadt eintrug.

Mit dem Bau der neuen Mor Juhanun da-Kfone-Kirche nebst einem Gemeindezentrum mit großen Festsaal auf dem ca. 6000 qm großen Grundstück war vor 16 Monaten begonnen worden. Die Gesamtkosten belaufen sich auf knapp vier Millionen Mark. Finanziert wurde der Bau durch ein Darlehen sowie durch Spenden der syrisch-orthodoxen Aramäer aus ganz Deutschland. Die Stadt Delmenhorst selbst steuerte 40000 Mark für die Einrichtung eines Jugendraumes bei.

Die Delmenhorster Gemeinde umfaßt rund 240 syrisch-orthodoxe Familien, 70 Prozent davon stammen aus dem Dorf Mzizah im Tur Abdin (im Südosten der Türkei). Das neue Gotteshaus bietet Platz für etwa 800 Gläubige. Der bisherige Gottesdienstraum in einem ehemaligen Gewerbebetrieb wurde für die Finanzierung der neuen Kirche verkauft.

Gabriel Rabo


_____________________________________

Suryoyo Online: http://www.suryoyo-online.org

Department of Syrian Church History
Faculty of Theology
University of Göttingen/Germany
_____________________________________


#171 From: "Sarkessian, Gary A" <gary.a.sarkessian@...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:43 pm
Subject: RE: [SORForum] Information on Holy Muron
gary.a.sarkessian@...
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This is from Children's Encyclopedia of Armenian Christianity (Christian Armenia 301-2001). Yerevan, "AREG", 2001.**
 
The book uses the word "Chrism" to Refer to the "Holy Muron/Myron".  If anyone needs more information on the exact recipe list of ingredients for the Holy Muron/Myron, please let me know.  It's a list of 40 or so more herbs, flowers, incense, etc.  I know I can find the list at home somewhere.
 
Good Luck,
Garabed Sarkessian
Armenian Orthodox Church
 
Also see http://www.armenianheritage.com/religion.htm  click on "Blessing of Holy Muron"
 
CHRISM-
Chrism refers to a special scented liquid or perfume.
 
Similar to the oil of Anointment of the old Covenant, in the Christian Church the holy chrism is the means by which the grace of the Holy Spirit is transferred.  The sacraments, or the mysteries of Confirmation and Ordination of the priests, are performed with the holy chrism. It is also used in anointing the Church and the holy altar, as well as objects of worship such as the cross, the Gospel, etc.  The chrism of the Armenian Church differs from the chrism of other Churches in its unique composition.
 
The basic substance of the anoint oil of the old covenant was olive oil, to which fine spices, such as myrrh (as a basic ingredient), cinnamon, and incense were added.  In the Armenian Church, the basic ingredient of the holy chrism is also olive oil, to which are added not four, but almost forty fine herbs.  Some of these are primary herbs whose use is obligatory, and some are secondary herbs, considerable small in number, which may be substituted with other herbs if necessary.  In historic Armenia the secondary herbs were readily available, which in modern Armenian some of them do not grow.  The basic ingredients of the chrism grow in the countries of the Mediterranean Sea and southeastern Asia. 
 
The holy chrism is traditionally prepared by mixing the juice of balsam and flowers into the olive oil.
 
The balsam juice is prepared by adding balsam (a scented liquid gum) which has already been dissolved in linseed oil to boiling olive oil.
 
The flora juice is prepared by mixing olive oil with wine and the remainder of the herbs.  The entire mixture is then boiled in a caldron on a low fire for two days. The result is filtered and then stored in a special vessel.
 
The holy chrism receives its heavenly power and sanctity through blessing.  The right to bless the chrism is limited to the Catholicos alone.  There is no special cannon to determine how often the chrism is blessed, but it is usually blessed every five to seven years. 
 
The blessing of the chrism is traditionally performed during major feasts and during the Divine Liturgy, although in earlier ages it was blessed on Great Thursday.
 
The day of the blessing is chosen by the Catholicos through a special encyclical.
 
According to the tradition of the Holy See of Etchmiadzin, forty days prior to the blessing of the chrism, the silver-plated caldron, filled with olive oil and covered with a veil, is placed in the main sanctuary of the Mother Church.  For forty days, after the vespers, a special service is performed by reading hymns and prayers.  The last evening is concluded by a vigil.
 
The following day is the celebration of the blessing of the chrism.  Accompanied by the sound of bells and the hymn "Khorhoort horin," the ecclesiastical procession moves from the Catholicos' apartment to the Cathedral.
 
Acolytes and deacons, carrying banners, candles, and fans, accompany the Catholicos and the twelve bishops. The bishops divide into two lines of six.  They each carry sacred relics: the Holy Gospel; the right hand of St. Gregory the Illuminator, the relic of life (cross); and other relics; and the ingredients of the chrism, balsam juice, floral juice, and the old chrism, each in an appropriate vessel.
 
The Catholicos sits on his throne, while the bishops stand at his left and right.  The blessing begins.  After special prayers, lections, and songs, the head sexton uncovers the caldron. With the sound of hymns, the Catholicos pours into the caldron first the floral juice, and then the balsam juice, and then the old chrism.  The old chrism is always added to the new one to symbolize the perpetuity of the Church.
 
Afterwards, the Catholicos makes the sign of the cross with the relic of the cross, the holy spear, and the right hand of St. Gregory the Illuminator.  The then stirs the chrism while repeating the prayer of blessing.
 
Finally, the head  sexton covers the caldron with a lid and a veil.  The caldron remains in the main sanctuary for seven years.  The faithful are allowed to approach the vessel and kiss it.
 
 
--------------------------

** Please note, I am not sure why this is called "Children's" encyclopedia. It's really for adults to read and then they can explain things to children. Maybe it is called "Children's" because it has many beautiful photographs, drawing, artwork and iconography (illuminated manuscripts, khatchars, engraving and others). I paid $26 (US) for this. It is 164 pages and is in hardback. It would make a wonderful Christmas gift. It's available from the Diocese of the Armenian Church of America's St. Vartan Book Store, NY, NY. Call them to order or for a catalog at (212) 686-0710

The encyclopedia was originally published in Armenian under the title "Christian Encyclopedia for Children" in 1998 by AREG publishing house of Yerevan, Armenia.

Children's Encyclopedia of Armenian Christianity (Christian Armenia 301-2001). Yerevan, "AREG", 2001. By order of His Eminence Archbishop Khajag Barsamian, Primate. Made possible by the Caspar M. Kasparian Fund. Translated and Edited by Vatche Ghazarian, Ph.D. Originally published in 1998 by "AREG" Publisher, 1998 (in Eastern Armenian). Published in English by the Diocese of the Armenian Church of America (DACA).

ISBN 99930-56-11-1.

This English Language version of the encyclopedia, while relying basically on the revised new edition of the above mentioned Armenian original, has also relied on two additional sources: "A Dictionary of the the Armenian Church" by Malachia Ormanian (translated by Bedros Norehad) publish in 1984 by the DACA, and "Saints and Feasts of the Armenia Church" by Patriarch Torkom Koushagian (translated and edited by the Very Revered Father Haigazoun Melkonian) published in 1988 by the DACA.

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Daniel [mailto:daniel_reji@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:21 AM
To: SOR-Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SORForum] Information on Holy Muron

Can anyone help with this request?
Thomas Daniel

---
From: amethystcatII@...
Reply-To: brendan99us@yahoogroups.com
To: brendan99us@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [brendan99us] Information on Holy Muron
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 04:56:41 -0000

I'm looking for information regarding the Concocting and Blessing of Holy Muron. The Syrian or Armenian Rites are those I seek most. The recipe, prayers, rites, vestments, etc. In English, preferrably
Thank you
Amethyst Cat

----------
"Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger."
(James 1:19)
Syriac Orthodox Resources: http://sor.cua.edu


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#172 From: thomas_joseph@...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:36 am
Subject: Re: syriac orthodox catechism
thomas_joseph@...
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Mike,

The Shorter Catechism of the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
By the late Patriarch Ephrem I Barsoum
Reprinted by The Archdiocese of the Syrian Orthodox Church for the
Eastern USA, 1999. (Published originally in 1912, English translation
1950).

The book is also available from the Western US Archdiocese in LA. I
think it costs $2.00.

- Thomas

--- In SOR-Forum@y..., maurnicus@a... wrote:
>
> Do we have a catechism?
> If so, do we have any English translations of it?
>
> Thanks,
> mike

#173 From: Rudolf Luhukay <rudolf_sby@...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:30 pm
Subject: The Posture of the Tselota/Shalat (7 Daily Prayers)
rudolf_sby@...
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Shlomo w'MorYo Yeshu'a MeshiHo,


Dear brethren,


 The seven prayer times are:
 +Evening prayer or vespers
 +Compline or prayer upon retiring (Sootoro)
 +Midnight prayer
 +Morning prayer (Matins)
 +Three O'clock prayer (9:00 am)
 +Six O'clock prayer (12:00 pm, Noon) 
+Nine O'clock prayer (3:00 pm)

I want to know the posture when we pray above. According to the books that I have read  which is our posture is similiar like Moslems do. Here is the argument of the books:

1. The picture which is showed below that ancient Judaism pray like Moslems do.

 
I quote this picture from the book under title "Menuju Dialog Teologis Kristen-Islam", by Bambang Noorsena, Yayasan ANDI, Yogyakarta, 2001, page 13. And the source of this picture is from "The Unger Bible Dictionary".

2. According to footnote of the book above (page 12), from the source book (al-Kanisat as-Suryaniyat al-Anthakiyat al-Orthodoksiyat, Damascus:Alif-Ba'al-Adib lil Nasyir,1080,page 15) by Mar Ignatius Ya'qub III, I quote like this: "The Syrian Orthodox Church still continuing the rite of Judaism (on the posture such as ruku' and sujud/bow and forehead/face onto the ground) and some eastern rites, which is maintained by Moslems at present day"

One more thing I quote from Mathew 26:39 : "VA NAFAL NEL AFUVHAY VA MATSALA....so on" it means that He prayed with His face onto the ground

If the statement above is invalid would you tell me please the specific books/information that you have. If valid, how is it? is it same or has been modified at present day?

Thank you inadvance.

Alaha natirokh,

Rudolf A. Luhukay



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#174 From: maurnicus@...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 11:56 am
Subject: Prayer with others
maurnicus@...
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I have a question about prayer with other faiths.  Is there any ruling
against praying with those who are non-Oriental Orthodox?  I didn't think
that there was considering all the ecumenical efforts by our patriarch.  The
Byzantine Orthodox it seems, are not permitted to pray with anyone who isn't
Byzantine Orthodox.  Naturally, I was wondering if there were any similar
views from our side.

Thanks,
mike

#175 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sat Nov 10, 2001 2:49 pm
Subject: Saint Issac Of Syria
daniel_reji
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Pearls from Saint Isaac of Syria
(Source: http://www.spencerabbey.org/cistpub/catalogue/catframes.html)
This Holy Father of the 7th century, was born in the region of Qatar on the western shore of the Persian Gulf. Gifted with a keen intellect, he thirsted also for spiritual knowledge, and, when still quite young, entered a monastery with his brother. He gained considerable renown as a teacher and came to the attention of the Katholikos Giwargis (George), who ordained him bishop of Ninevah, the former capital of Assyria some distance to the north. For reasons not entirely clear, he requested to abdicate after only five months, and went south to the wilderness of Mount Matout, a refuge for anchorites. There he lived as a solitary for many years, in strict asceticism, eating only three loaves a week with some uncooked vegetables. His constant study of the divine writings strained his eyes, and eventually blindness and old age forced him to retire to the monastery of Shabar, where he died and was buried.
 
It was already towards the end of his life in the wilderness that, out of love for his neighbor, he felt compelled to share the experience he had gained. The result was a collection of incomparable texts on the spiritual life, from which we have gathered the following pearls.

The Light of Christ is noetic [spiritual, mystical] Light, and blessed is the soul which is worthy to see it!
 
The purpose of prayer is for us to acquire love for God, for in prayer can be discovered all sorts of reasons for loving God.
 
Love of God proceeds from conversing with Him; this conversation of prayer comes about through stillness, and stillness comes with the stripping away of the self.
 
When you dwell in stillness and possess the work of humility, this will be a sign for you that your soul is nigh to emerging from darkness: your heart is aflame and hot like fire both day and night.....
 
Faith is the door to mysteries. What the bodily eyes are to sensory objects, the same is faith to the eyes of the intellect that gaze at hidden treasures. Even as we have two bodily eyes, we possess two eyes of the soul, as the Fathers say; yet both have not the same operation
with respect to divine vision. With one we see the hidden glory of God which is concealed in the natures of things; that is to say, we behold His might, His wisdom, and His eternal providence for us which we understand by the magnitude of His governance on our behalf. With this same eye we also behold the heavenly orders of our fellow servants.
 
With the other we behold the glory of His holy nature. When God is pleased to admit us to spiritual mysteries, He opens wide the sea of faith in our minds.
 
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind.Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God.
 
As a man whose head is under water cannot inhale pure air, so a man whose thoughts are plunged into the cares of this world cannot absorb the sensations of that new world.
 
A life of spiritual endeavor is the mother of sanctity; from it is born the first experience of perception of the mysteries of Christ--which is called the first stage of spiritual knowledge.
 
To bear a grudge and pray, means to sow seed on the sea and expect a harvest.
 
A small but persistent discipline is a great force; for a soft drop tailing persistently, hollows out hard rock.
 
The key to Divine gifts is given to the heart by love of neighbor, and, in proportion to the heart's freedom from the bonds of the flesh, the door of knowledge begins to open before it.
 
This life has been given to you for repentance; do not waste it in vain pursuits.
 
Other texts by Saint Isaac can be found in Early Fathers from the Philokalia, Faber Faber 1954; The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, Holy Transfiguration Monastery 1984; and On Ascetical Life, SVS Press 1990.
http://www.spencerabbey.org/cistpub/catalogue/catframes.html



#176 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:43 pm
Subject: Syriac Icon (Three wise men)
daniel_reji
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Syriac Icon (Three Wise men)

Ancient Syriac icons, have some unique features in them. They differ in style from both Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic icons. And even in the contents of the icon, they are different some times (although they all cover Christian themes).

There is a Syriac icon which is now in Berlin, (Preuss. Bibl. Sachau 220 fo 8v.),  It is about  the three wise men who saw the star and followed it to Bethlehem and offered baby Jesus their gifts (see the attachment).

The three wise men in this Syriac icon are shown riding horses NOT camels, since according to Syriac tradition they came from Mesopotamia and NOT Arabia. Ironically the western world portrays them as camel riders, because the western world has this stereo type image about the people of the Middle East as being "Camel Jokeys".

The uniqueness of this icon lies in the fact that our Syriac forefathers portrayed the actual true way things happened in the Middle East because they lived there, during the same period of time those events took place, and they were also the first nation that adopted Christianity.  So the  knowledge of the Syriac fathers of those events were first hand knowledge, and not based on the wild imagination of some western artists who had never been to the Middle East, add to that the fact that those westerners adopted Christianity many hundreds of years after our forefathers did.

Copied from "Sabro" (Hope), Vol.2, Oct-Nov-Dec 2000, Issue 7.  A Syriac Orthodox publication Published in California, USA.



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#177 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:25 pm
Subject: Being Filled With Light
daniel_reji
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Being Filled With Light
 
"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find.  When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel...." (taken from Saying 2, Gospel of Thomas)  Some translations of this verse use the word "astonished" instead of "marvel." In Syrian Christianity mystics have always used words like "astonished," "marvel," and "wonder" to describe the experience of gaining a vision of the Light of God during contemplative prayer. More from Thomas and Syrian Christianity:
 
"If one is <whole>, one will be filled with light, but is one is divided, one will be filled with darkness." (Jesus, Gospel of Thomas, saying from # 61) This is quite close to, "If thine eye be single, thy whole body will be filled with light," found in Matt. 6: 22.
 
"There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world.  If it does not shine, it is dark!" (Jesus, Gospel of Thomas, Saying 24)
 
Mystics (and only mystics) speak of a "singleness of vision" that takes place when they gather together again all the energies of their soul which have been scattered and dissipated in the outer world of the five senses. When the world is transcended during contemplation --
is stripped away, and Singleness of Vision is attained, then the Light appears.
 
"The impulses of the mind are extended from the sphere of material things towards those impulses which are without limit, that is to say astonishment" [see Thomas # 2, "astonished"] "at the New World, and the faculty of vision which belongs to the contemplation of the Holy
Trinity.  For when the vision of the mind is mingled with the Light, all its impulses become infinite.  For none of the visionaries or gnostics is able to distinguish the identity of the mind as a result of the vision of that glorious Light that is seen, for all the innermost chambers of the heart are filled by that blessed Light." 

Joseph the Visionary, "The Syriac Fathers on Prayer and the Spiritual Life," translated from the Syriac Aramaic by Sebastian Brock of Oxford, Cistercian Publications


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#178 From: "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:04 pm
Subject: The World Chronicle By Patriarach Michael The Great
daniel_reji
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(From a paper by Dorothea Weltecke in the Journal of Assyrian Studies.)

Almost 800 years ago Michael the Great, one of the most important Syrian Orthodox patriarchs of Antioch and the East, died in his favorite monastery, Mor Barsaumô, on top of a mountain close to the old Cappadocian metropolis of Melitene, today the Turkish town of Malatya.1 700 years after his death, the first printed edition of his most acknowledged literary work, his world chronicle from the creation to the year 1195, was begun in Paris.2 By this time the site where the monastery had once thrived and hosted hundreds of pilgrims each year, well-off Muslim tradesmen included, lay waste, and even its exact location was controversial.3 The tide of history had washed away the defense walls and the four watchtowers, the hospice and the patriarchal residence Michael built, the library Michael had enlarged with books he bought or copied, and the luxurious book of the gospels he himself had filled with silver and golden letters. Gone also was the church built of the beautifully carved stones which Michael had appropriated from a former Pagan temple in the vicinity. In an area distant from great Christian city centers such as Antioch and Edessa, this was seen as a church of considerable importance. This is confirmed by the Edessean chronicler?s remark that?"[w]hile it is small in size, here it stands very great, beautiful and high."4 Unfortunately, the greater part of Michael?s achievements - - his church, his buildings, and his reforms -- were lost.

To read more please download the attached PDF file



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#179 From: Rudolf Luhukay <rudolf_sby@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 2:39 pm
Subject: Ablutions (Wudhu)
rudolf_sby
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Shlomo,

 

I am in need to know the ablution (wudhu) of the SOC both in the past time and present day.

Thank you.

Rudolf



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#180 From: thomas_joseph@...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 7:04 am
Subject: Re: Prayer with others
thomas_joseph@...
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I am not aware of a prohibition of prayer with other faiths as such.
The joint celebration of the divine mysteries and other sacraments is
however permitted only where a common confession of faith exists and
today that is restricted to the Oriental Orthodox churches.

- Thomas



--- In SOR-Forum@y..., maurnicus@a... wrote:
>
> I have a question about prayer with other faiths.  Is there any ruling
> against praying with those who are non-Oriental Orthodox?  I didn't
think
> that there was considering all the ecumenical efforts by our
patriarch.  The
> Byzantine Orthodox it seems, are not permitted to pray with anyone
who isn't
> Byzantine Orthodox.  Naturally, I was wondering if there were any
similar
> views from our side.
>
> Thanks,
> mike

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