From: Paolo Guanco

To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:40 AM

Subject: RE: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

 

Hi,

 

I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern churches are warming up. In the Oriental Churches.......

An atheist was taking a walk through the woods,
admiring all that the accident of evolution had created.

"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What
beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river he heard a
rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look.
He saw a 7-foot grizzly charge toward him.

He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked
over his shoulder And saw that the bear was closing.
He ran even faster, so scared that tears were coming
to his eyes. He looked over his shoulder again, and
the bear was even closer. His heart was pumping
frantically and he tried to run even faster. He
tripped and fell to the ground.  He rolled over to
pick himself up but saw the bear, right on top of
him: reaching for him with his left paw and raising
his right paw to  strike him.

At that instant the atheist cried out "Oh my God!...."

Time stopped.
The bear froze.
The forest was silent.
Even the river stopped moving.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came
out of the sky:  "You deny my existence for all of
these years; teach others I don't  exist; and, even
credit creation to a cosmic accident. Do you expect
me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count
you as a believer?" The atheist looked directly into
the light: "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly
ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps
you could make the bear a Christian?"

"Very well," the voice said.

The light went out.
The river ran again.
And the sounds of the forest resumed.

And then the bear dropped its right paw, brought both
paws together, bowed its head and spoke: "Lord, for
this food which I am about to receive, I am truly
thankful."

Orthodox Faith can be read here:

Fr. Markos:
http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/coptic/writings/frmarkosbook/suprema
cy2.html


- Thomas


--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Paolo Guanco" <pmguanco@p...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my
patriarch. As we
> all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several
eastern
> churches are warming up. In the Oriental Churches, the Assyrian
Church and
> the Armenian Church are enjoying good relations with Rome, So with
the Greek
> Orthodox Church in the west. As relations grow better, may I ask you
in the
> Syrian Church of your opinion on this matter and the issue of
eventual
> reunion with Rome. How do most of  your church members feel towards
the
> "Catholic Communion" in general (including Syrian, Malabar and
Chaldean
> Catholics) and to the Roman (Latin) Catholic Church in particular?
>
> Paolo

Dear brother

Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met  Pope and we have already come

to many understanding in the matter of  worship etc.....

From the desk of:

                                         B
     ( Vayaliparambil Pynadath )        BPM
       BIBU PHILIP MATTHEW               M
                B.E.(CSE)

       COCHIN-682 024
       SOUTH INDIA

email:bibuphilipmathew@...
      :hellobibu@...
______________________________________________

Dear Mr.Paolo

It is a good thing that ecumenical discussions are progressing and
different churches are coming closer , or having mutual understanding.

By eventual reunion with Rome,if you mean to say both Syrian church and
catholic church should be under one Patriarch,I (we) can NEVER EVER accept
that ,it is absolutely OUT OF QUESTION.Syrians are recognising Pope only as
Patriarch of West and can never accept Pope as Patriarch of East.In the same
way, we are not interested in making you accept Syrian Patriarch as
Patriarch of West.

Four Patriarchs' for four quarters of the Globe.When all the four come
together the Church is complete, not one single Patriarch for entire church.

More over we have not gone away, we stand where we are,so reunion term does
not match in our case.In fact you went away, for St.Peter established only
1 Throne in Antioch and not in Rome.

Why dont you think the other way eventual reunion with Holy Throne of Antioch ?

We Syrians can never digest having both spiritual and temporal power together.
We believe Patriarchs' should have no temporal power.

if you mean by reunion , Syrians under Vatican, then i can only say that
catholic church should SURRENDER and overcome its COLONIAL AMBITIONS to rule
over entire world and not repeat the sins any longer like in past.

I think(not sure) Pope and Patriarch have signed treaty of intermarriages
in church , and acceptance of communion from other church in the absence
(non availability) of priest one's native church.If such a treaty is in
force we will honour it , otherwise NO.

Another thing is that the priesthood of Antioch is A judo-Christian origin
with clean hands, without any trace of sin or corruption,so we will honour
that forever.

Personally I  prefer only a syrian Orthodox communion.

Earlier , we had taken oath not to have any dealings with Rome,by forgiveness
means we will respect you and help you as christians but not to surrender
to your church or Pope.It only means "We accept Pope,now(after forgiveness by
HH.Patriarch.Zakka I) as Patriarch of West ONLY but not and NEVER of East.

Further opinion about communion in particular I refer to other experts in 
forum.
regards,
BPM

On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 04:10:12    Paolo Guanco wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>I greatly appreciate your respect towards my church and my patriarch. As we
>all know, the relations between the catholic Church and several eastern
>churches are warming up....

shlomo ,

it seems paulo is not aware of the first three synods .

or are we seeing the inner  designs of paulo in this matter.

perhaps we at soc forum should educate paulo regarding the antiquity and supremacy of our patriach in christendom.

the roman catholic church has itself acknowledged the antiquity of the syrian orthodx church  in its calendar .so where does the reunion UNDER  the roman pope lie?????

as   long as the  roman catholic church doesnt revret back to the henophysite view of the trinity  i doubt whether such reunion( perhaps another universal synod could be held then) is ever possible.

the roman pope has never apologised for the division of the malankara church also nor for the infamous inquisitions at goa  so far.

though we respect the roman pope  , paulo please keep in mind that our patriach is equal in supremacy along with the coptic pope  with the roman pope  because we three belong to the churches founded by st peter himself .

i suggest u read the drafts of the three synods held at nicea , constantinople and ephesus before writing such crap

aloho ahmuch

dipu george

  V Thomas@... wrote:

Dear brother

Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met  Pope and we have already come

to many understanding in the matter of  worship etc.They have made

a joint communique. We leave such eccleasiastical matters with

Patriarchs.

Unlike in middle east we were persecuted by Jesuits and the Portugese

govt  The Roman catholic church was seperated  from us, by these

Jesuit fanatics......

Does there have to be a divide between belief in evolution and belief in
God?
It would seem to me that God could have CREATED the world and humanity
through EVOLUTION.

Willy

-----Original Message-----
From: JERIL THOMAS


>An atheist was taking a walk through the woods,
>admiring all that the accident of evolution had
>created.
>
>"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What
>beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

Dear sir,
As per evolution it took billions of years for things ,that we see around,
to happen.All bible years togetheris <6000.
Hence we have to accept any one.
Regards
vmt

Mr.Paolo:

We will honour ONLY HH.Partiarch of Antioch and All the
East as our Supreme head, no matter how many
confessions you do,in fact you must confess if you
want to be with God, for that sake u confess,dont
confess to please us and for further consolidation of
power by this cheap act.

In fact catholic church had always created grear dishonour
to christianity by its selfishness, corruption and love fo all the
materialistic and worldly pleasures.You can never
compare with Syrian church.if Patriarch Zakka I has
forgiven pope it is his mercy.

WE WILL ONLY ACCEPT HH.PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH AND ALL
THE EAST AS OUR SUPREME SPIRITUAL HEAD ,we dont mind
having good understanding with our church . But NEVER
PAPAL-SUPREMACY.

=====
A Humble Servant of Jesus Christ.Son of Jehova,God of Israel

A knight of the Order of Jacob Baradeus for empowering Jacobites
under Holy Throne of Antioch, my mission.

Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because
the non Christians calling us "Christians". May be they are wrong.) wait
until next April to crucify the Jesus Christ.

I like to express my thanks to the priesthood for the new system adopted
in the Universal church. I think we should abolish the Holy Synod now.
We do not need that drama for the adoption of the new systems in our litergy
or spiritual matters.

Keep it up

A Christian by mistake called by the non-Christians.
Babu Kurian


--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Deepika.com" <webmaster@d...> wrote:
> <http://www.deepika.com>
> The following news items from Deepika.com are forwarded to you from
> email id: daniel_reji@h...
> Breaking News
> Monday, April 08, 2002 05:43:26 PM IST
>
>
>
>
> For more news visit www.deepika.com <http://www.deepika.com>
> JacobsonSoft <http://www.jacobsonsoft.com>

Dear Brother in christ,
We are the children of God and very dear to God,so that for our sake
Jesus had to undergo sufferings on cross.Nothing happened by
mistake.It is written in Bible that God looked at everything he has created
and
felt pleased.(Genesis chapters 1-2)
If one is a christain by mistake,he is man by mistake also(same logic)
But Bible gives us enough evidence for the fact that we  of are all born
as a part of his palns.Each  hair of us is counted.
But this quarrels and fights-oh!.What to do we are humans-God has given
us freedom to choose also.
Look at first man Adam,he disobeyed-cause satan.
Satan is still around to misguide people.Jesus came ,redeemed us
and set an example for us.Still we repeat the mistakes.
Only God can give peace and strength to face temptations.
(Ps29:)Let us pray.
Love
vmt

---- Original Message -----
From: Babu Kurian
To: <SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:18 PM
Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Breaking News (05:43:26 PM IST) Piravam Church


> Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because
> the non Christians calling us "Christians". May be they are wrong.) wait
> until next April to crucify the Jesus Christ.

About the news in Deepika on the Piravom Palli issue, there was a slight exaggeration about the whole event and this may have created some confusion among the readers.   So here i would like to present the facts that had happened there on that day.

Actually it was only Fr.Elias, appointed as the alternate Priest by the diocesan Metropolitan (Catholicos-designate Mor Divanyosious Thirumeni) a few months back, celebrated the holy Qurbana on that particular day.   Though the other Achen initially tried to create trouble on that particular day by obstructing Fr.Elias, he had to finally accept the decision of the local government authorities, which they had taken after consultation with the Parishioners.  Since a consensus was reached only in the last minute, this Achen was also present in the Madbaha, while Fr. Elias celebrated Qurbana. (Remember if two priests had then celebrated the Services simultaneously in the same Madbaha, as mentioned in the daily, then there would have been a serious trouble, which the police force under no circumstances would have allowed to continue).

In the Piravom Valiya Palli, the Patriarch faction has strength of more than 90 % and this fact was clearly established two years back in 2000 with the Church committee election held under the supervision of the High Court nominees.  Dissatisfied on the turn of events, Methran Kakshi submitted a petition in the Supreme Court, stating that only the parishioners supporting them (5 %) have the right to vote in the election.  But they themselves were forced to withdraw the case following some remarks from SC, which appears to be unfavourable for them in other Church cases if they continue with this one.  Thus after this election, the Jacobite Syrian Christians got the full administrative authority of the church.  

The particular Priest, who tried to create troubles by not allowing Fr.Elias to celebrate the Holy Services on last Sunday, is one of the Parish Priests from earlier period.   He created troubles with the support of Muvattupuzha Athanasius Methran who switched over to the Kottayam Orthodox faction in 1996.   Though the Jacobites forms the majority (90 %), they were actually suppressing their sentiments for many years now, in order to avoid any troubles, which may lead to the permanent closure of this ancient church, just as that happened before.   Exploiting this peculiar situation, both the Athanasius supporters & Sevarious supporters of Kottayam Orthodox group (total 5 %) never allowed Fr.Elias who was appointed as the Chief Priest from the Jacobite side to celebrate the Holy Qurbono.   To avoid any confrontation with the dissident section, the Jacobites tried their maximum to remain silent and waited for a consensus on the matter. 

Only a week before, did Fr.Elias got the approval of all and accordingly he was to celebrate the Holy Services without any problems.    But the situations become worse after a last minute visit of Muvattupuzha Athanasius of Kottayam Orthodox group to the concerned Priest who was forced to lead the troubles.  Everybody in the area knows, who is behind all these, it is Athanasius Methran & Devolokom leadership.  It was after studying all these facts that the local govt. authorities finally approved Fr.Elias  (who was appointed by Catholicos-designate Mor Divanyosios Thirumeni) to celebrate the Holy Qurbono,  Orelse the Govt. authorities never would have supported Fr. Elias to celebrate the Holy Services.

So my advice to all in these hours of crisis is to try to know more about the facts before coming into any conclusions.  There are many who are trying to spread false rumours to tarnish the Syrian Christian community & our bishops.  Their sole aim is to destroy the Syrian Church so that the Kottayam leadership can have the full authority of the Malankara Church.  So be careful of all the false propagandas.

  Babu@..., UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:

Cant we the Syrian Christians (If I am wrong, please excuse me, because

1. Prayer helps education to enhance truth, virtuous life, faith,
reverence and mutual respect.
2. One who prays to God Almighty daily will never be a liar, filthy
mannered or one without faith. He will not ill-treat his fellow men
or superiors.
3. Prayer is the enthusiasm of childhood, the dependence of youth,
and the peace of old age.
4. Prayer with full heart will be accepted by God and it will be
returned to us as a symbol of blessings.
5. One, who loves his fellowmen, is a real devotee.
6. Because all that is created by God deserves love, many things
beyond our dreams are possible through prayer.
7. Pray to God loudly during the day and night alike.
8. These prayers will help us to remove the darkness in our lives,
and to take away the weakness among us.
9. These prayers are a means to achieve salvation and redemption,
which are the final goals in our lives.
10. So pray with hope and faith and worship God. Brethren, God
will be pleased with you.
11. Let there be the love of the Father, grace of the Son, and the
fullness of the Holy Spirit that gives peace among you forever
and ever.
from an 1870 speech, translated by Jose Kurian Puliyeril, in
Fr. E. J. Abraham's "St. Gregorios of Parumala" with some edits)

Your servant in Christ,
V. Rev. Fr. John-Brian Paprock, pastor
Holy Transfiguration Malankara Orthodox Syrian Mission
Madison, Wisconsin (608) 236-9622
http://www.angelfire.com/wi/inroads/transfig.html
"We have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power
may be of God, and not us." IICor4:7

The Armenian PATRIARCHATE of Jerusalem has confirmed that
an Armenian sub-deacon (not a priest or monk, as has been
reported elsewhere) has been shot.  He was taken to
Jerusalem's Hadassah Hospital, where he underwent surgery
to stop excessive bleeding.  He is currently in the hospital's
intensive care unit.  There is no official word on his
prognosis, but the Patriarchate asks for everyone's prayers.

Get the correct news from Armenian Diocese:
http://www.armenianchurch.org/GetNewsOnDate.jsp?Id=3494
------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Paolo Guanco [mailto:pmguanco@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:40 AM
To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

Dear brother in St. Peter,

 

I will make it clear to you my dear Syrian brothers, I am not advocating Roman supremacy. In truth, I abhor the way most Latin catholics treat easterners  as inferior to latins. The Jesuits in the past  are fanatical to the point of believing that the only valid form of Christianity is the Latin type. But they are not the most fanatic, there were the Dominicans of the Inquisition who did more horrible things to other Christians.  There are still many Roman Catholics who think this way and I have been striving to change this way of thinking in line with the Pope's wishes. Healing the wound of the past is a long and difficult task, I appeal to all my Syrian Brothers to help heal the wound.

 

 Within the Catholic communion, there has been a problem of Rome controlling every aspect in the affairs of the supposedly Sui Iuris eastern catholic churches. I had always been an advocate of greater autonomy of eastern churches from Rome.

 

 

With regards to the Syrian Orthodox Church, reunion might not be the right word. I used a bad choice of words, what I really mean is in the line of full communion between the two churches. In your opinion as a Syrian Orthodox, what is the best setup for the restoration of full communion between our two churches?

 

 

Paolo

 -----Original Message-----
From: V Thomas [mailto:V Thomas]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:53 PM
To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] FW: Noble cause

Dear brother

Our Patriarch HH Zakka I has met  Pope and we have already come

to many understanding...

excellent.
TOTUS TUUS MARIA
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sara Thomas>
To: <SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 6:42 PM
Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] 10 Rules For A Blessed Day


> 10 RULES FOR A BLESSED DAY
>
> 1. TODAY I WILL NOT STRIKE BACK . . .
> If someone is rude, if someone is impatient, if someone is unkind, I
> will not respond in a like manner.
>
> 2. TODAY I WILL ASK GOD TO BLESS MY 'ENEMY'
> If I come across someone who treats me harshly or unfairly, I will
> quietly ask God to bless that individual. I understand "enemy" could
> be a family member, neighbor, co-worker or stranger.
>
> 3. TODAY I WILL BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT I SAY . . .
> I will carefully choose and guard my words being certain that I do not
> spread gossip.
>
> 4. TODAY I WILL GO THE EXTRA MILE . . .
> I will find ways to help share the burden of another person.
>
> 5. TODAY I WILL FORGIVE . . .
> I will forgive any hurts or injuries that come my way.
>
> 6. TODAY I WILL DO SOMETHING KIND FOR SOMEONE, (BUT I WILL DO IT IN
> SECRET . . . ) I will reach out anonymously and bless the life
> of another.
>
> 7. TODAY I WILL TREAT OTHERS THE WAY I WISH TO BE TREATED . . .
> I will practice the golden rule. "Do Unto others as I would have them
> do unto me"- with EVERYONE I encounter.
>
> 8. TODAY I WILL RAISE THE SPIRITS OF SOMEONE WHO IS DISCOURAGED . . .
> My smile, my words, my expression of support, can make the difference
> to someone who is wrestling with life.
>
> 9. TODAY I WILL NURTURE MY BODY . . .
> I will eat less . . . I will eat only healthy foods. I will thank God
> for my body.
>
> 10. TODAY I WILL GROW SPIRITUALLY . . .
> I will spend a little more time in prayer today. I will begin reading
> something spiritual or inspirational; I will find a quiet place (at
> some point during this day) and listen to God's voice.
>
> Luke 10:27
> He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with
> all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind';
> and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
>
> Luke 10:27
> We learn three principles about loving our neighbor: (1) lack of love
> is often easy to justify, even though it is never right; (2) our neighbor
> is anyone of any race, creed, or social background who is in need; and
> (3) love means acting to meet the person's needs.
> Wherever you live, there are needy people close by. There is no good
> reason for refusing to help.
>
> Remember, today is a gift from God so treat it preciously
>
> -- Author Unknown
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SOCM-FORUM-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Unfortunately The Bible does not support that Idea
Rajan Mathew

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., William John wrote:
> Does there have to be a divide between belief in evolution and belief in
> God?
> It would seem to me that God could have CREATED the world and humanity
> through EVOLUTION.
>
> Willy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JERIL THOMAS
>
>
> >An atheist was taking a walk through the woods,
> >admiring all that the accident of evolution had
> >created.
> >
> >"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What
> >beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

Dear SOCM members,

The problem that started in two Churches of Thrissur diocese is expected to spread all around Malankara soon. Catholicose Marthoma Mathews II who usually preaches peace in public to create a Godly image for himself and at the same time creating troubles by using any third rate methods,  is now again trying to do the same.

As per the latest information’s received, Catholicose Marthoma Mathews II is contacting every district collectors, with the help of some politicians who are siding with his faction (Malankara Orthodox Church), and together they are planning to artificially create troubles in at least a few churches each in every diocese, similar to that now happened in Thrissur diocese.   In this way he & his faction are planning to block the parishioners of one diocese, from moving to other dioceses and thereby preventing a large gathering to assemble in one place.   The Malankara Orthodox Church leadership is arranging all these with extra ordinary skill & secrecy.   They are trying their maximum to demoralise the Jacobites, by closing down the parishes of ours.

When one prominent person within their Church questioned the activities of their leadership in creating troubles in churches where there are no problem at all, the Catholicose replied as if he as a great peace loving person, but at the same time all his activities are hinting towards creating more troubles in many more parishes, wherever no problems exists.   Thomas Athansius of Chengannoor, the Catholicos-aspirant is another person of dubious character who is leading all the troubles, but fortunately or unfortunately, he already have a very negative image even among their Church itself.  

Last Sunday, K O Kurian, a close relative of K M Mathew the Chief editor of Manorama and one of the directors of Manorama Company, published a leaflet, highly criticizing the Catholicos and his core group of supporters for all the malpractices & other undesirable practices.  He distributed this leaflet at Devolokom Church the same day.   Though there are such persons who are fed up with the unholy practices in their Church, their numbers are very few and they are usually sidelined with the help of the highly influential gang within that church.

So my advice to all those who are loving the Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, is to be vigilant towards such forces, which may do anything to tarnish the image of anyone including our beloved Prelate Thomas Mar Divanyoious Thiurmeni and other bishops and lay men, who are leading our Church in its hours of crisis.    They have already won in spreading false rumours about our Prelates and others who are giving strong leadership to our Syrian Orthodox Church; their primary aim is to weaken the leadership within our Church.  They tried their maximum by spreading false rumours about Thomas Divanyosious Thirumeni, our Catholicos-designate.   They think, our Church can be destroyed, if Divanyosious Thirumeni is sidelined.    Only Thirumeni’s pray-full life & strong will power had helped him to overcome the misinformation campaigning of Devolokom leadership.   His Grace is even now in the Church in Thrissur diocese, praying for a peaceful end to the crisis now faced by our Church, which is created by Devolokom leadership. 

Sad to say, there are still some more persons within our Church itself, to help the opposite group through back doors.  Though the persons who are actively participating in Church activities here in Kerala know the truth, many living outside Kerala are not aware of this.  Even persons living here, who read only Manorama daily etc. , too had fallen prey to this propaganda war of Malankara Orthodox Church leadership of Kottayam.

 There is even a separate propaganda department to demoralise the Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Christians that is functioning within the Devolokom Orthodox Church leadership under the Catholicose Marthoma Mathews II and Thomas Athansius etc.   This Thomas Athanasius of Chengannoor has already appointed 3 separate investigating agencies to spy work the activities of Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church members and at the same time is trying to canvas the key persons by offering anything.  So be vigilant of these groups of people who are creating troubles through undesirable practices. 

Paul. P