Dear All,



it is unworthy to talk about the group ism in the church because it will not

reach any where as the approaches of church administration are parallel for each

sects. but spiritually they converge into one

point Moran Yeshu M'shiho. therefore all the church denominations are alive and

prosperous.



when we visit Manarcad, Parumala, Kothamangalam, Manajnikkara, Pampady and N

Paroor we never find any group ism or sector fighting. the real church assembles

there. can we not encourage this spiritual

gatherings. the faithful flow to these sacred places and none of the leaders

could stop them going there. all of them who ask for the intercession of the

saints get it abundantly with out group ism. therefore, the real members never

bother in the church group isms and

politics.



i was a sorrowful member who talked very much about the church dispute. today i

feel very comfortable because my words increased the church dispute. church is

the body of the incarnated Lord and it cannot be kept under four walls. if we

Love our neighbours as ourself we can find no fight in the church. teach the

faith and give less importance for the contradictory interpretations.



Pray for all and ask prayer from all. there is only one Church the rests are

just groups.



may God bless us all



Dr.GeorgeK John

St.Peters& St Pauls jacobite syrian church pengamuck

St.greegoris Orthodox Syrian Church, Sharjah

Member ID # 0204

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!





"What is the essence of Orthodoxy? It is the God-man Christ.

Everything that is Orthodox has a divine-human character: knowledge,

the senses, the will, the mind, morality, dogma, philosophy, and

life. Divine humanity is the only category in which all the

manifestations of Orthodoxy are received and fully operate. In all

creation, God occupies the first place, man the second. God leads

while man is led; God acts and man cooperates. God does not act

transcendentally. He is not the abstract God of deism, but rather

the God of the most immediate historic reality, the God of

revelation, the God who became man and lived within the categories

of our human existence while appearing everywhere as absolute

holiness, goodness, wisdom, justice and truth."



St. Justin Popovich.



--------------------------------------------------------------



"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel From everlasting to everlasting!

And let all the people say, Amen! Praise the Lord!." Psalms 106:48



---------------------------------------------------------------

Martyrdom of St. Milius, The Ascetic

Dear Kurian,



Reply to your posting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/6208



How  can we stay away from IO Church? People can do easily but our Priests have

the problem.  Our beloved Mor Theethos Tirumeni kept an IOC priest out of Holy

Altar during the Consecration of a church here in USA,  He faced lot of

questions from our Priests and lay persons. If we invite priests from other

denominations for weddings they come and attend with their white Rob. Most of

our priests want to go with their black Rob and they want to be in IO Church

sacraments.



I wish keep all IO Church priests out of our sacraments and won't let any of our

priest attend IO Church  Sacraments.



Another important matter to consider  How can we bring  back our people, who 

took memebrship in IO Churchs outside Kerala?  Local Priests, home parish

priests, and Diocesan Bishops can contact these families and tell them to teach

their chidren" Satya Viswasam." ans stay with mother church.



Hundreds of our families attending and took membership in IO Churchs in USA due

to they married in IO Church families, or lack of backbone.  Last"Catholica

Dhinam" one of the IO Church in Houston took an Oath including our people"stay

with catholica until last drop of their blood". They collect money from our

people to fight against our churches in India. Some one have to stop this

practice.



Best regards,

Babu Vadakedath

ST. Marys Cathedral Manarcad.

ST. Mary's Church Houston, Texas, USA.

Member ID # 0920

The Bible, from cover to cover, and over and over, condemns

rebellion. The Lord God considered rebellion so serious – He

compared rebellion to witchcraft. And may I remind you, witchcraft

was punishable by death!



"For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, . . . "

1 Samuel 15:23



"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Exodus 22:18



What do tattoo artists convey you?



Since body art is still not mainstream, having marks on your body

that you put there on purpose shows the world your rebellious and

unconventional nature". (Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A

Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercing, and Other Body

Modifications, p. 32)



"In this culture, a tattooed person is still looked at as a rebel,

as someone who has very visibly stepped out of the bounds of normal

society, . . ." (Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin

Decoration, p. 75)



TATTOO: THE MARK OF PERVERSION

==============================



To be fair to those who maintain that tattooing is linked to

homosexuality, investigations conducted in a New Zealand Borstal for

girls revealed that of the 60 per cent tattooed, 90 per cent

admitted to lesbian behavior during corrective treatment



"[associated with tattoos] Among these conditions Raspa cited:

impulsiveness, low self esteem, lack of self control, homosexual

orientation, sexual sadomasochism, bondage, fetishism, bisexuality,

lesbianism, antisocial personality, borderline personality disorder,

schizotypal personality disorder, mania and bipolar disorder, and

schizophrenia."





TATTOO: AND PERSONALITY DISORDERS

=============================



Evidence indicates that it is the mere presence of the tattoo, not

its artistic content, that correlates with certain diagnoses. Thus,

any tattoo can be viewed as a warning sign that should alert the

practicing physician to look for underlying psychiatric conditions.





and

"studies suggests that people with personality disorders frequently

have multiple small tattoos.

and

"the presence of tattooing was often indicative of a deprived and

troubled background,. . ."



and today

According to the study, today's tattooed young people:



**Are nearly four times more likely to engage in sexual intercourse

**Over two times more likely to experience alcohol related problems

**Nearly two times more likely to use illegal drugs

**Over two times more likely to express violent behavior

**Over two times more likely to drop out of high school



IT is not healthy;

================

Many serious illness can come to you through tattoo.



"It's strongly advised for people who have tattoos to get a

Hepatitis check. And soon. . . Hepatitis can lie unnoticed for many

years while doing serious damage. The sooner hepatitis is detected

the better the chances for survival. If you have a tattoo – get

checked."



More read here

http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/health.html



Tattoo and H Bible



We discussed this before. but more detail is here



http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/bible.html





So ...

Look to Lord for Light. Do not go with Death or Devil.

Your body is the temple of God. respect it.



Let us remember what apostle Paul said



21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God

your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the

coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-23





say NO to devil and his ways. Say Yes to Lord Jesus Christ.





Regards



PaulReji

Member ID # 0901



My thanks to this website for this article



http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/intro.html

Hi Mr Thomas George



I didnt c any replay regarding your doubt



with my littile knowledge i think it wouldnt be accpted for non X'n as all sins

are washed by the Holy Blood of our savior through baptism we accept this in

x'nity faith is the foundation of salvation,its sounds stange and unpractcle for

some one to recive any sacraments with out accepting this basic truth.



i belive in early years of church non baptised people werent allowed to

participate in full Holly mass.



not only that when we confess the prayer confession says very clearly about out

faith with out accepting that face how cna someone confess,even though

confession may give a feeling of coulcling the actual purpuse is not counciling

its the healing of our sins so with out that faith there is no  point of

confessign.



I am not sure i explained this very well but i hope some experts will try to

explain it clearly



Kurian Mannicherry

UK

Member ID 1019



- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mann George wrote:

>

> In our Church H. Baptism and H. Chrismation are considered as the

entry to Holy Life in Christ and ofcourse to Church too. H.

Eucharist is counted as the sacrament which fulfils all the other

sacraments. So it called as Queen of Sacrament.  We are also blessed

with having H. Confession, H. Matrimony, H. Orders and Anointing of

the Sick. Sacraments like H. Orders are not considered as mandatory

to all in our Church. Obviously H. Chrismation, H. Eucharist, H.

Matrimony, H. Orders are shared with those who are purified and

bonded with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection through H.

Baptism.

>

> My doubt is, whether Holy Confession is restricted to community of

Church?

>

> What about the gentiles which St Paul mentions in Romans 2: 14

(For when the Gentiles, which have not the law?.)?

>

> Can they repent or confess their sins to God in the presence of a

priest ? Can they receive penance and forgiveness of sins?

>

>

> Request you to give valuable blogs in our Church views.

>

> In HIS Love,

>

> Thomas Mann George,

> Marth Mariam Church Kandanad,

> St Mary's Jacobite Church Bangalore,

> Member ID # 0972.

The Saint-Jacques Syriac Orthodox Youth Organisation is proud to host the 22nd

Annual Youth Convention From June 30th to July 3rd 2005 in Montreal, Quebec,

Canada At  Montreal Dorval Airport



Theme: Where Are We Going?



Does anyone really have an answer to this simple yet complex question? As

individuals in a very young 21st century, we have so far encountered an array of

world events.



Unfortunately, all we seem to excel in is more war, more terror, more world

hunger and more of a world without innocence. We still move on though but

wondering what is next. As young Adults, we graduate high school where some of

us decide to continue our studies, some head into the work force right away, or

some just take time off and see what the world can offer. From the beginning, we

are constantly on a journey where it can be from just taking a bus ride to the

nearest mall, to finding a path for a happy and prosperous future. While on

these journeys, consciously or not, it seems that we are missing something

important. That something is our FAITH.



We are always searching, wondering, experimenting, which are very natural and

healthy behaviours, but what if whatever we are looking for or where our paths

lie are out of ours hands? We tend to believe that we should have all the

answers and produce our own destinies, and as Christians, we have choices and we

have the power to make things happen, but in truth, HE is the only one that

determines our true journeys.



As humans, it is already difficult for us to trust one another because it takes

less effort to be sceptical, but yet as Christians, our trust and faith need

only to be directed towards only one side and that is in the Almighty. Living in

a scientific world, it is strenuous not knowing, not having things concrete or

tangible, but faith, deeds, and to be a live member of the church activities are

the only true antidote we need. In fact, “Faith without work is dead” James

2:20. When we have faith, it can help recuperate some of our lost innocence, it

can ease some of our worries, and it can help

us follow our journeys without fear.



“Our eternal destination is much more important than that of our life here on

earth”. Our theme is going to be implanted in each of our activities like never

done before. By just standing still or moving around, we will be going, placing

and taking many journeys together, and the adventure alone will be a triumph for

HE is our path. Take the choice to explore, follow through the valleys with no

fear, engage in our original Christian culture, and have one of the best times

of your life.



For more details, please visit http://www.yc2005.com/

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!





"Man is the only being in the entire world who is extended from

paradise to hell. The gamut of human thought, human reflections,

human sense, and human disposition vibrates in a much greater width

than the angels and Satan. It is greater than the angels because man

can descend to the Devil, but, at the same time, is greater than the

Devil because man can also be elevated unto God. Man, therefore, is

an eternal being, whether he wants to be or not. When does the

immortality of man begin? It begins from the moment of conception

within the womb of his mother. And when does the paradise or the

hell of man begin? It begins from the free union of man and the

Divine good or diabolical evil, namely, the union of man and God, or

man and Satan. What, therefore, is paradise? Paradise is the feeling

of God according to the word of the Holy Fathers. If you feel God

within yourself, then you have already reached paradise. The saint

of our times, Saint John of Kronstadt, says, `When God is present in

all of man's thoughts, in all if his desires, and in all of his

intentions, through his words and through his acts, the kingdom of

God has come upon him. Then man sees God everywhere in his holy

thought, in his holy action, in the holy matter."



St. Justin Popovich.



--------------------------------------------------------------



"Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures

forever. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, Whom He has redeemed

from the hand of the enemy." Psalms 107:1-2



---------------------------------------------------------------

Departure of St. Erastus, the Apostle.

Departure of St. Acacius, Bishop of Jerusalem.



Feast of St. Mark The Apostle, Evangelist.

Martyrdom of the Great Saint Mark, the Apostle and Evangelist of the

Land of Egypt.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,



I take great pleasure in inviting all the members of the Malankara Syrian

Orthodox Church under His Holiness Moran Mar Ignatius Zakka I Iwas The Prince

Patriarch of Antioch and all the East Supreme Head of The Universal Syrian

Orthodox Church to the 20th Annual Family Conference of the Malankara

Archdiocese of the Syrian Orthodox Church in North America to be held at the

Sheraton World Resort, Orlando Florida, USA from July 7, 2005 - July 10, 2005.

All information is on the diocesan website http://Malankara.com



Direct links to information concerning the conference are on the following

websites



1) http://malankara.com/conv05.htm

2) http://malankara.com/c05update.htm



All information on how to Register and how to make payments are on the website

itself.



****A special discount has also been setup for those people who plan to spend

some EXTRA DAYS in Orlando (PLEASE REMEMBER YOU MUST STAY AT THE SHERATON WORLD

RESORT ORLANDO, FLORIDA  DURING THE PERIOD OF THE CONFERENCE WHICH IS FROM JULY

7, 2005 – JULY 10, 2005 IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE AT THE CONFERENCE). These

discount prices are based on availability only, so it's a first come first serve

basis. To receive the discount you must mention MALANKARA ARCHDIOCESE when you

call to make reservations. Act fast because rooms are running out quickly for

the Extra Days. The hotels are setup with a group discount based solely on

availability only!!! You can find more information concerning bookings for EXTRA

DAYS in ORLANDO  at the following website:



http://malankara.com/c05update.htm



Please send in registration forms available at

http://malankara.com/conv05reg.doc no later than the Deadline which is June 5,

2005. Act fast, time is running out.



If you have any questions or concerns please email me at DnJerryJacob@...



In Christ,

Rev. Dn. Jerry Jacob

ID #1021

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. Dn. Jerry Jacob MD

The Universal Syriac Orthodox Church

Malankara Archdiocese of the Syrian Orthodox Church in North America

Mor Gregorios Syrian Orthodox Student Association (MGSOSA)

Email: DnJerryJacob@...

Its dose not seems to be attracted this issue by many people ;that’s

itself is  a sign of people aren’t bothered about this.

I don’t understand how can we get lost about creed its confirmed by 3

great synod of catholic church(I meant the early church not RC)

We should do something to unify prayers, there was a talk about this a

year ago by the H.synod in India but I don’t know how far we gone

about this



About some issues you mentioned here I think it is more appropriate

say ' light from light ,true God from true God (prakashathil

ninnulla prakasham,sathya divathil ninnulla sathya divam)



I remember we used to say 'according to scripture he rose and on

third day and ascended into heaven '(mrithu adakapattu

thiruvezhuthum prakaram  moonam divasam  uyarthazhunnattu) but some

where along the its changed to his will(thiruvistam)

unfortunately we are not bothered about the meaning of prayers and we

says new generation don’t like our prayers and don’t want follow its

because we don’t teach them and asking them to follow something they

are un aware of, ask how many young generation know what is the

difference in the creed about Holy sprit between catholic church and

orthodox church and why its important.



Kurian Mannicherry

UK

Member ID 1019



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/5833

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> This is in reply to the messages written by Babu Jacob & KEFA-NY.

To add to this subject, it must also be noted that our prayers are

not unified.  I've seen that there are different prayers conducted

by the 'theka' (north) and 'vadaka' (south) sides.  Apparently, the

evening prayers are different based upon where in India you live.  I

do know that the church tried to bring unity in this matter, but

there are still many houses that use different versions of the

evening prayer.  If someone can better explain this, it would be

appreciated.

>

> Our common prayers are also not the same.  In the Lord's Prayer,

one version is "Deliver us from evil" whereas others say "Deliver us

from the evil one".  Living in New York, we would say "forgive us

our debts, as we forgive our debtors".  When we moved to Dallas, the

version goes "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who

trespass against us".

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

>

> God Bless,

> George Aramath

> St. Ignatius SOC, Dallas

> Member ID # 0892

The Malayalee priest, Fr Mathew Uzhuthali (69) sustained stab & chop wounds on

April 11th at Patna, Bihar. He died due to the injuries on

30th April. He was serving as the vicar of the Mokama church which is a Marian

pilgrimage center.



He was attacked in the church room by the goonda leader who delivered chop

wounds on neck from the behind. He sustained very serious injuries and was

admitted in the Nazareth hospital ICU. As his condition worsened, he was shifted

to the Holy Family hospital at Kuriji. He underwent surgery on the 24th. However

the grave injuries on the neck and spine led to his death.



The slain priest has been buried at the Mokama church at Patna as he wished.



The late Fr Mathew hailed from Vechoor in Kerala. He was the son of Uzhuthalil

Ouseph and Annamma.



Fr Mathew joins the league of Christian soldiers who laid down their lives in

North India.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

PRAY FOR THE SAFETY OF CHRISTIAN WORKERS IN INDIA

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!



"Since the invisible One became visible by taking on flesh, you can fashion the

image of Him whom you saw. Since He who has neither body, nor form, nor

quantity, nor quality, who goes beyond all grandeur by the excellence of His

nature, He, being of divine nature, took on the condition of a slave and reduced

Himself to quantity and to quality by clothing Himself in human features.

Therefore, paint on wood and present for contemplation Him who desired to become

visible."



St. John of Damascus.

--------------------------------------------------------------

"Let the hearts of those rejoice who seek the Lord! Seek the Lord and His

strength; Seek His face evermore! Remember His marvelous works which He has

done, His wonders, and the judgments of His mouth." Psalms 105:3-5

---------------------------------------------------------------

Dear friends and brethren,



The May edition of "Shroro - The Syriac Orthodox Christian Digest" is now online

http://www.socdigest.org/



Your dedication to the faith has given birth to Shroro, and your interest has

made the e-magazine an immediate success.



We ask that you pray for us, so that we may better serve our community's

interests.



In HIS Love

Shroro Editorial Board

http://www.socdigest.org/

Reading: From the Gospel according to St. John 17: 13-26



Dear and Respected Brethren,



Our Lord’s concern and the prayer for the entire mankind is the theme of

today’s reading. In verse 13 Lord Jesus reveals that His intention is the

fulfillment of the joy of men. Our Lord might have meant the joy of

salvation mentioned in Psalms 51:12, where Psalmist prays to restore joy of

Lord’s salvation. In verse 14, our Lord says, “I have given them thy word:

and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I

am not of the world.”  That is why St. John exhorts “Marvel not, my

brethren, if the world hate you”. (I John 3:13) . In verse 15 our Lord prays

to protect us from the evil. In Galatians 1:4 we read, “Jesus Christ gave

himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world,

according to the will of God and our Father.”  So also in 2 Thessalonians

3:3 we read, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you

from evil.”



In verse 16 our Lord confirms that the faithful are not of this world as He

is not of this world. But at all possible occasions we go after the world

and we act as if we are of this world. We often forget the very fact that we

should keep a separate view towards this world, while being in this world.

We have studied that we are not of this world. But practically we engage

ourselves as if we are of this world. In each and every moment we spend in

this world, we all are bound to think that we are not of this world. In

verse 17 our Lord is suggesting a remedy if and when we fall victim to the

will of this world. Or when we forget that we are not of this world, we

could have rescue from a big fall. It is purely by the sanctification by

word of God, which is truth. The word of God, which is eternal truth could

sanctify one and all who might depend it for sanctification. A faithful has

to meditate the word of God every day. The Holy scriptures are good enough

to sanctify the sinners. So we must make use of the word of God every now

and often. Reading/Studying the word of God must be a practice in the life

of a real faithful. In verse 18 we read, “And you have sent me into the

world, even so I have also sent them into the world”. Again our Lord is

emphasizing the mere fact that one who is engaged in the gospel work must be

sanctified. See in verse 19, He says  “And for these works, I sanctify

myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth”. St. Paul

establishes that our Lord Himself is our sanctification. Please see I

Corinthians 1:30, I Thessalonians 4:7 and Hebrews 10:10



In verses 20 and 21 we listen our Lord’s wish for the unity of entire men.

He says, ‘Father, I have given the glory to them, which you had given me, so

that they mighty be one’. We all have received the glory from our Savior.

Are we utilizing the same according God’s will? We are obliged to use our

talents and time for the unity of mankind and unity of the Churches. If we

could not do something for the unity, we should not hinder the unity. We

must put an end in abusing each other. When the mankind will be united, then

only we could have the perfection of God’s will and desire. (see verse 23)

In verses 24 and 25 we find the innocent desire of our Lord to have eternal

abideness with each and everyone of the mankind. Our Lord wants to remain in

us and to retain us in Him. The only question is towards you and me. Our

Lord asks each and everyone of us; “how far you are ready to be in the

kingdom of God”. We must ask ourselves and find the answer.

May God bless us all.



Jose Kurian Puliyeril.

thanx for ur message as u said the main problem in our church is lack of

knowledge if read trough the hudaya cannoon it was necessary to learn the faith

for years before the baptism unless its an emergency.



Our church never bother to teach people about faith and people not intrested in

learning either ;how can some one be a memeber of any organisation with out

knowing the policys of that organisation .half of our comunity(not just orthdox

or jacobite  all malayalies) act as religious but they arn't most of them go to

church or temple to ask or debate with God that if God giv eme a btter life

style i will follow u.(not that they bellive he is God and our father).



I can understand why people critcize Mor Theethos,its not their fault or

Thirumanys fault;its the fault of our system . An IOC preist is  a common man

wiht no preisthood or authority according to church teaching , but if u look at

the church practice he is same as any of our preist, so a common memebr church

who have no much idea about teaching of church and cannon laws ;what Mor

Theethos done is  a discremination.The only way  we can prevent that is by

declaring IOC as an excummunicated fraction in public(yes i know we did it

Mulathuruthy palliprathipurusha yogam but we havent done anyhting about

it).Either the catholicos  or H.H should declare this in public and there by end

all relationship through a bull and that should be read in all churchs then

people understand it,when they declare it they should clarify this very clearly

coating  from cannoon laws synod  and association decisions so that comon memebr

of church can understand why they not a part of our community any more.



About our preists who attended their services let them attend as  a common

member  as any one of us attend a protastant occation(may b for wedding or a

meting)but not as preists who participate in the service.Any preist who do so

should be banned from our service untill repent I havnet got Hoodaya canon with

me at the moment otherwise i would have coated the part from canon which clearly

says a preist who join for services with an excommunicated Bishop should be

excommunicated i dont think our church leaders will ever be strong enough to

take such actions as they worry about wealth and memebrs than the values of

church(people will get the leaders they deserve)



About memebrs left our church for many reasons if its due to misunderstanding of

faith and church teaching yes it may worth our  bishops ,preists and church

leaders speaking to those members to teach them why its important to join with

main stream church not a nationalist church(which i am sure against Gods

teaching ,church is unversal not national)Give them a copy of 'Ithu Vishvasthint

karryam'its available on malnakra voice let thme read it. If the reason for

leaving church is due to marriage,finacial reasons or arguments with other

church members or preist i dont think we can do  a lot about it ; everyone have

to foloow their call if they ignor the call who will b able to help them.



Again its not the number of people in the church matter the quality of memebrs

is important  the thing , few faithfull true christain members are much better

than a big group who have no true x'ian belives (they are memebrs of church for

social reason not because they following theire call)



Kurian Mannicherry

UK

Member 1019





--- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Babu Vadakedath wrote:

> Dear Kurian,

>

> Reply to your posting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-

FORUM/message/6208

>

> How  can we stay away from IO Church? People can do easily but our

Priests have the problem.  Our beloved Mor Theethos Tirumeni kept an

IOC priest out of Holy Altar during the Consecration of a church

here in USA,  He faced lot of questions from our Priests and lay

persons. If we invite priests from other denominations for weddings

they come and attend with their white Rob. Most of our priests want

to go with their black Rob and they want to be in IO Church

sacraments.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> Best regards,

> Babu Vadakedath

> ST. Marys Cathedral Manarcad.

> ST. Mary's Church Houston, Texas, USA.

> Member ID # 0920

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/6215

Dear honorable members



Greetings in HIS name



To keep the forum debate's authenticity, we the moderators of this forum, have

decided to implement a new guideline.



As per the new guideline from 26th of October 2004, we will not publish any

messages without proper signature. Your signature should contain full name,

family name, home parish, present parish attending along with proper references

like that of the parish priest's; name, e mail address and telephone number,

where we can verify the genuineness of the e mails.



After the verification of your identity, we will provide a member ID Number

which can be used as your signature for future postings and by member ID numbers

we can verify your mails. However, If you want your name to be withheld from the

messages published, we will comply to your request and then only the ID number

will be published.



These personal contact details will be stored in our database and will not be

published in the forum.



However, if you are hesitant to reveal the name and identity, you can still be a

member of the forum and get the daily digests in your e-mail id supplied, if you

wish so.



This new guideline is applicable to all members, regardless of their Christian

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We hope our members will appreciate it and cooperate with us.



Be with us and be part of us.



In Our Lords Love

For & on behalf of

SOCM-FORUM Moderators



Thomas Daniel (Reji)

(Forum Owner)

St. George Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church

Cheppaud, Alleppy Dist, Kerala, India.

http://groups.msn.com/StGeorgeSyrianOrthodoxChurchCheppaud

"People account it a great thing to have friendship and fellowship

with an earthly  king; how incomparably greater is the priviledge of

having fellowship and friendship with God, Who is the King of kings,

and the Lord of lords and abides in light unapproachable! O how much

have God's goodness and love toward man wrought! Look, O Christian,

and you shall see the nobility and merit of Christians. They have

communion with the great and incomprehensible God."



St. Tikhon of Zadonsk.



--------------------------------------------------------------



"Have mercy on me, O Lord! Consider my trouble from those who hate me,

You who lift me up from the gates of death." Psalms 9:13



---------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Aby K. Paul,



I read your posting in IO Forum No.9841 of March 30, 2005 on the issues you

wrote to me on Dec.11,2004. I gave you a reply with my confidence that that

these issues were very well referred in my links and in the books I sent to you

at my own expense. Your first question was well answered by Dr. Thomas Joseph in

SOCM Forum No. 513. All other questions are very well taken care in the

following two books I mailed to you.



1.Slaiheeka Sandarsanam- Vivadangalum Visadeekaranangalum

2.Ivar Paranjirunnathingane, Ennal Ippol...?



I thought you have read the book and found the replies to all your questions!



You wrote to me on Dec.28 2004 the following,



>“Dear achan



>Thank you for the books. However I had read one of those books from one of

>my friends before but those

>does not answer my questions. I shall send you the cost of the books in two

>days.



>As you suggested I checked the SOCM Forum #513 and back issues and it seems

>like the discussion did not last

>for longer than three or four issues.

>I know it is not a time to discuss those issues when thousands of our

>brothers back home are suffering from

>the earthquake and Tsunami. Let us thank God for how fortunate we are. Let

>us pray and do whatever we can

>to help those people (either in the name of SOC or IOC) as Christians.



>Thank you once again for the books.



>Aby K. Paul “



What else I can understand from this?



Almost 3 months passed and you never wrote me any letter or mail. I never

expected the cost of the books and the mailing charges from you so I didn’t care

on the promise that you will sent me the cost in TWO DAYS! even though nothing

happened!



Now it is really surprising that you, all on a sudden appeared in the IO Forum

with a plea to SO Forum owner, Thomas Daniel, using another thread, with a note

that HE WILL BE ABLE TO REPLY.



This can also mean that even though the question was raised to me I did not

satisfy you. Your posting with my name mentioned gives a feeling that we had a

thorough discussion earlier. Your posting quoted below will not reveal the fact

that you have NEVER AGAIN CONTACTED ME FOR FURTHER CLARIFICATIONS FROM MY PART,

but surely give a feeling otherwise.



See your posting on me in IOC Forum,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/9841

”I asked Rev. Fr. Kuriakose Moolayil these questions and he was kind enough to

send me some books to read. I could not find the answers to my questions but

just allegations of IOC bishops lying and sort of. However he requested me to

visit SOC Forum Digest# 913 for my first and second questions. The interesting

thing I found was SOC forum stopped any further discussion about it after their

answer in Digest # 913.” (Corrected to 513 later by yourself)



It was you that stopped the discussions unilaterally on account of the Tsunami

disaster. It was a courtesy to write to me on these at least before dragging my

name in the public forum. Your intention is very clear when you requested Thomas

Daniel to give the reply in the IO Forum.



I think you have the permission from the IOF Moderators to invite the reply

there. I hope this will not be censored/edited as it was done earlier to my

response to the Learned and senior Corepicopos V.Rev.Dr.P.S.Samuel. Those

responses was actually invited by the IO Moderators but later they found it

‘untimely’ and was denied publication. I hope that will not happen to this.



Coming to your questions 1 and 2 you are again invited to READ the posting 

No.513 in SO Forum from Dr. Thomas. URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/513



Your Questions 1 and 2 are quoted below,



1. “ If H.H. the Patriarch of Antioch is the head of our church, why don't the

bishops from India have the equal participation in the election ofPatriarch?

2. Why a bishop from India is not eligible for the candidacy of Patriarch?“



My responses to these are the following:



1. The Patriarchate and the Catholicate in the SOC are two Synodal entities with

specifics of authorities. This is nothing new. When the Catholicate was accepted

in 1958 and the canonical installation was done by H.H. Yacoob 111 in 1964 the

synodal identity was confirmed. That is still followed. The Catholicose of the

East is elected by the Synod under the Catholicate and Patriarch by the Synod

under him. All these involve issues of rights over properties, languages,

jurisdiction, etc, etc of temporalities. BUT the installing is spiritual and is

done reciprocally by the concerned prelate.



2. It is also noteworthy that the bishops of the Patriachate are not a part of

the election or the candidancy to the Catholicate too. So these issues are not

to be considered as issues connected to the spiritual supremacy of the

Patriarch.



3. During the period when the Maphriante was weak ,before 1860 , many times the

Catholicoi were nominated by the Patriarch or/and by the synod. H.H. Basalius

Yeldo and H.B. Sakralla are examples. Then there was no Synod under the

Catholicoi and many Catholicoi became Patriarch.



4. Besides the above clarifications I have some more comments on this issue.



Dear Aby,



Is your question raised with pure conscience to know the electoral roll and the

eligibility of the candidacy of the Patriarch or is it addressed to highlight

your whimsical fantasy of the ‘discrimination’ prevailing(?) in the SOC?. Will

you join the SOC stand if this issue is cleared as a matter of authority and

temporality? Or will you continue as ‘unconvinced’ innocent?



5. Finally, my request to you and other IO friends is to keep this issue as an

internal affair of the SOC. As far as the IOC is concerned it is not at all an

issue. Please worry about your candidacy of bishops and Catholicose. We are not

all bothered who all you elect, ordain or receive. It is your freedom to hail

defectors from SOC or to defeat those from North dioceses,

etc.



6. But your concern regarding the position of Patriarch in the Malankara Church

is to be considered here. I will have to say that it should be said without any

‘IF’ as you have started in your question! You seem to rely much on Court

verdict in your questions. Have you READ any of the judgments regarding Church

cases from Cochin Award to 1995 Judgment of the Supreme Court of India? You

should also READ the latest (2002) judgment from the High Court of Kerala by

J.Jawaharlal and J. Ramachandran. Then you can avoid the ‘IF’ in your future

postings. I am not intending to give the proof of details regarding the

unquestionable spiritual supremacy of the Patriarch of Antioch over the

Malankara Church as evidenced in judgments, liturgy and history of the church.

You have the freedom to go away from it. But you cannot deny the facts. You can

keep your eyes shut! But don’t think all have kept their eyes shut



7. I am sure you will be 'convinced' by this reply too as you were not satisfied

with the replies in the books that I forwarded to you. If you are willing to

read without prejudice all your questions other than the above are answered in

them.



Q.3. Who was the head of our Church during the 19th century and before?



Refer Oath of Koonan Cross, Mavelikkara Padiyola, Mulanthuruthy Synod,

Consecration of Bishops Pulikkottil 5th back to Marthoma1. Read also the History

book by Fr. K. David, the former Sunday School Director during the split period

after 1912.



Q.4. Why did the former Patriarch sent a Kalpana saying that St. Thomas was not

even a priest? Or didn't he sent such a letter and the IOC is lying ?



Refer my book, Slaiheeka Sandarsam pages 88- 90. See also my posting attached

below URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/5118



Q.5.Did H.G. Thomas Mar Dianaius agree to abide by the Supreme Court verdict of

1995 and agree to participate in the election to chose the Malankara

Metropolitan under the guidance of Justice Mr. Malimatt? (I read in the

newspapers back then that it was the Jacobite faction that suggested Mr.

Malimatt in SC and Orthodox faction opposed it. However the SC accepted the

request of Jacobite faction acknowledging that without SC overseeing it the

election would not be fair)



Much water flowed after this event. Please read the judgment of HC of Kerala

referred above by J. Gupta and J. M. Ramachandran. See my book pages 49 & 50.

For Malimatt issues please READ chapter one of the above book. If you don’t have

access to the HC judgment I have a copy with me. I will send the photocopy if

you can pay the charges.



I would also like to bring to your kind notice that it is NOT proper to call

H.B. Thomas first as 'H.G. Thomas Mar Dianasius' even years after he is raised

as the Catholicose. Give respect and get respect. I don’t personally mind even

if you avoid my status as 'corepiscopos' by addressing me as 'Rev.Fr.Kuriakose'.

I am more comfortable with the endeared title, ‘Moolelachen’ heard for the last

26 years. But the former is more serious.



If you accept H.B. or not is another issue, he is H.B. of the SOC. You are

belittling yourself when you or anyone else try to lower his status. Moreover if

you accept him as ‘H. G. Thomas Mar Dianasius‘, why you cannot recognize him as

H.B.? Both status were conferred upon him by the SO Church.



Please read more comment from me on this in the following URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/5067



Q.6.Why the Jacobite faction recommended in SC to amend the constitution for

representation based on membership in each parish and now arguing that the

amended constitution is not applicable to them?



See the references to the question No.5



Conclusion: I am willing to explain on any of the points I have referred above

and to communicate with you even personally. I am reminded of a proverb here.



“One can bring a horse to water but thousand cannot force it to drink” This may

be applicable to me, you and may be many others. This denominational duel is

useless other than for historic and academic purpose. I lost interest in this

combat through the forum. Being a student and reader of the History of the

Church at times I will have to interfere with my thoughts and convictions. That

is all!



Please forgive me if I have offended anyone of my readers unintentionally.



Pray for me and forgive my ignorance.



Lovingly, Moolelachen



Kuriakose Corepiscopa Moolayil

Director, Mor Adai Study Centre

http://moradaistudycenter.cjb.net

http://stgeorgechurchchicago.cjb.net

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From the desk of the Moderators

The above posting is published as per the request of our respected Moolelachen

as IOC Forum refused to publish iit in their forum in response to the original

posting  appeared in that forum. The communication between IOC Forum moderators

& Achan is also printed below for clearing his stance of publishing it in our

forum.



*******************************************

Rejection note to Moolelachen from ICON Moderators

*******************************************

Indian Orthodox wrote:

Respected Achen, We are not posting the message below in ICON since it is

already appreared in/sent to other forum. Thank you for your continued support.



In Risen Christ,

ICON Moderators



***********************************

Reply from Moolelachen to ICON Moderator

***********************************

Dear Moderators,



Thank you for your kind reply of rejection of my reply to Aby. I can understand

your limitations in posting my response even otherwise, if you were given the

first priority to publish. Let  Aby and his like minded friends in your forum

enjoy with the feeling that none could say anything beyond what they have said!



I have sent a copy to Aby for his knowledge. I hope you will not mind if I

publish your rejection note in our Forum. I shall hold this for two days for you

to reply if you have any objection to this.

Thanking you again for your request for 'continued support' Lovingly,

Moolelachen.



************************************

Reply from ICON moderator to Moolelachen

************************************



Dear Achen, Thank you Achen for asking. We do not have any problem you posting

this in any forum or we do not know even we could ask for that. However,

thinking out loud, what would you achieve by posting a mail which we consider

totally out of Christian Spirit and won’t achieve anything?



We really would like to post any messages in ICON which is true, rational and

nourish Christian brotherhood.



Please forgive if we offended you in anyway and remember our activities in your

prayers.



In Risen Christ,

For ICON Moderators,

(Name withheld by SOCM-Forum Moderators)



************************************

Reply to ICON Moderator from Moolelachen

************************************

Dear Brother, ((Name withheld by SOCM-Forum Moderators)



Your immediate reply on behalf of ICON is praiseworthy. Thank you for your

prudence to leave the publication issue to my freedom.



I can't understand the rationale in your letter when you said the reply is

"totally out of Christian Spirit and won’t achieve anything " !



I think it is my duty now to explain to you why I was compelled to ask you

permission to quote your reply in SOCM-Forum.



Do you believe the questions raised by Aby were in 'true Christian Spirit'?.



But I know  he and his participants 'achieved' in mud throwing and slandering .

You Moderators of ICON gave him web space to air his baseless questions and also

his appeal to reply in your Forum, even dragging in my name improperly. But when

I replied you rejected to post the clarifications therby you are denying

thousands of your readers their right to know the replies to Aby.  What your

readers are thinking now?  Thomas Daniel and 'Fr. Kuriakose Moolayil' could not

even reply to the questions raised by Mr. Aby !  This is very sad and is really

creating a smoke screen .



You now has denied me the space to respond and clarify the half truth in the

personal discussion between me and Aby. This is really painful and I can see

this only an act in partisan spirit. This is not at all Christian charity!



If I publish this rejection note at least those of your readers who are members

of SOCM and other forums will understand what really happened ?



My reply was posted in SOCM-Forum because Aby's questions were also raised in it

too earlier.



I can't  find any 'Christian Spirit' and Charity in your rejection of my

postings this time and the former. This time YOU allowed the writer Aby to call

for clarification to be published in ICON itself and the last time YOU YOURSELF

ASKED ME TO WRITE MY VIEWS. Now you say it can achieve nothing ! What a paradox

?



But I respect your (Moderator's) freedom to reject any of the postings being it

a moderated Forum.



Forgive me for my uncouth words, as I  am thinking aloud and sharing my thoughts

without hiding anything. I am not at all offended by your words or rejection of

my postings, because I expected nothing more than this could happen  or you

could act in any other way.  I know you cannot sent to your readers 'the

unpleasant realities' against the smoke screen arguments built by your

promoters, like Aby.



Thank you for your time, patience and sincere courtesy.

Lovingly, Moolelachen.

Dear Moderators,



I am thankful to the Indian Orthodox  Moderators for inserting my write up on  "

Groupism  in Our Religion" in the Digest No.1523. I am equally thankful to the

honourable  members Mr. Alex Jojo Thomas and Mr. Oommen Thomas who have

responded to  the above  through SOCM  Digest No.1238 , and the moderators  who

have considered itworthy of incorporating  their views for the benifit of  our

readers.



It is this sort of criticism  from our members  that can develop into a healthy

dialogue and perhaps the involment of more and more such members will be a

welcome start  leading into  better discussions  among us.



As Mr. Ommen Thomas  is, I  too  am basically from Tiruvalla  and had been

attending to the Masses  offerred by  both the factions in turn ( in the olden

days)  at Paliyekkara Church. Also I had no reservations  in going to the other 

Churches in the locality such as Kattampurathu, and Chalakkuzhy-two churches. I

had personal contacts  with the Revered  Priests of both the factions too in a

very cordial way.  Even to this day  I have no preference to attending  churches

of either  factions whenever I visit Kerala, as I firmly believe  that the

groupism in our religion  which is being practiced from  our forefathers' time 

is meaningless  and keep hopes on the  younger  generation  to  break the

barriers  and get united  for a fruitful future.



Thanking you ,

Yours truly,



JUNAS from Mumbai,India.

(I am a member of Dadar Parish,Mumbai)

--------------------------------------------------------------------



From the desk of the Moderator:



We request once again to send your details to moderators

(SOCM-FORUM-owner@yahoogroups.com) and obtain a member ID before posting any

more messages in SOCM. Thank you for your cooperation

Having set high standards in professional education in the state, Mar

Athanasius College of Engineering (MACE), Kothamangalam, is presently riding

high on the stupendous success it has achieved, thanks to its training and

placement cell.



Top companies, following placement interviews, have roped in over 250

students doing their final year in MACE. The list of companies, around 26,

include names such as Wipro, Infosys, Reliance Infocomm, Polaris Chennai,

Birla Soft, Crompton Greaves, IBS, Satyam Computers and US Software.



Also, 53 students in their pre-final year have been short-listed by

companies such as Tata Consultancy Services, L&T and Subex.



‘‘After the engineering college at Thiruvananthapuram, our college has had

the maximum number of placements this academic year,’’ said Dr Paul

K.Mathew, Principal, MACE.



He added that the placement result is many times higher than those in

previous years. ‘‘This has a lot to do with the training we give in soft

skill development for our students during their third semester,’’ Dr Paul

added.



According to Jai M Paul, coordinator, training and placement cell, the

result would not have been possible but for the marketing team of MACE.



‘‘We’ve a 12-member marketing team comprising students in pre-final years

who interact with companies in places such as Bangalore, Thiruvananthapuram,

Chennai and Hyderabad. The laptop, CD and brochure to this effect are all

prepared by students themselves,’’ said Jai.



Also, the college has entered into a MoU with Infosys.



‘‘As per this, their course will be run parallel to the regular course. They

will be giving the financial assistance and infrastructure,’’ added Jai.



The college has also been serving as nodal centre for many top companies.



More companies will be coming to MACE this June for placement interviews.

These include Wipro, Infosys, Honeywell, Polaris, US Software and IBS.



For more details on the college log on to mace.ac.in or email at

macecalls@.... Ph: O485-2825991/2822363. http://www.mace.ac.in/



Source:

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20050508010029&Page=R&Title=Keral\

a&Topic=0&

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!





"Do not be irritated either with those who sin or those who offend;

do not have a passion for noticing every sin in your neighbour, and

for judging him, as we are in the habit of doing. Everyone shall

given an answer to God for himself. Everyone has a conscience;

everyone hears God's Word, and knows God's Will either from books or

from conversation with other people. Especially do not look with

evil intention upon the sins of your elders, which do not regard

you; `to his own master he standeth or falleth.' Correct your own

sins, amend your own life."



St. John of Kronstadt.



--------------------------------------------------------------



"But I am poor and needy; Make haste to me, O God! You are my help

and my deliverer; O Lord, do not delay." Psalms 70:5



---------------------------------------------------------------

Departure of the righteous Job.

Departure of St. Tadros, the disciple of St. Pachomius.

Martyrdom of St. Philothaos.

Dear all,



As malankara jacobite syrian orthodox church  is a part of universal syrian

orthodox church  why Syrian orthodox church  is celebrating easter in different

dates.read that syriac orthodox church is following the  Julian calender, then

which calender we are following in Malankara church.



Feast of ST.George( geevarghese shada) is also celebrating in different date(

may 1st week) in syria, iraq and other parts.



As we (malankara church) are part of syrian orthodox church why don't we have

same dates  fot easter ans passion week.



awaiting your views in this matter.



Aji Alexander

ST.GEORGE UNIVERSAL SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, KUWAIT

Member ID# 1789

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Easter Dates in Malankara, please check these Links

http://groups.msn.com/SOCM-FORUM/patriarchalencyclicals.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&Ph\

otoID=39



http://groups.msn.com/SOCM-FORUM/patriarchalencyclicals.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&Ph\

otoID=40



http://groups.msn.com/SOCM-FORUM/patriarchalencyclicals.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&Ph\

otoID=41



http://groups.msn.com/SOCM-FORUM/patriarchalencyclicals.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&Ph\

otoID=42



Regarding the feast of St. George, Mannoor Jacobite Church in Malankara too

celebrating the feast on 24 May. Their might be more churches in Malankara (SOC

& IOC) do the same.

Dear Junas,



I don't know whether you are with the Syrian Orthodox Church or the IO

church, but I must commend you on your desire for unity.  Unity is the

true Christian spirit, as it is part of the greater thesis of

Christianity.  Let me say unequivocally, that unity is only a reality

when it is based on truth.



The union shared when the IO church rejoined the Syrian Orthodox

Church in the 50s was not a true union, but one of sidewinding by the

IO church.



Originally, the IO church, like the Reeth, Anglican-Martomites, and

the "Catholics" of India, were all Syrian Orthodox Christians.  That

was unity.  We must not equate unity as anything different.  The IO

church, the Reeth, the Anglican-Martomites, the Papist/Catholics of

India, all would be following the unity call of Christ if they return

to the Syrian Orthodox Church.  I've made many Mallu friends of

varying denominations, and the greatest drawback for them is pride.

As we know, pride is the heart of Satan himself who tried to be like

God.  Personalities emerged who were wolves in sheeps clothing,

leading many astray.  Are the (Syrian) Orthodox Christians of India

and the IO church different in faith?  Originally, yes.  Today, I am

not sure; the history of the IO church (and as such, their theology)

is changing day by day depending on which IO church spokesman we are

listening to.



I have a few friends in the IO church, and they are very simple folks.

      They really are also my students, but I understand they have

family obligations at their present parish.  The IO church leadership

is certainly heretical, yet these folks, as well as many (Syrian)

Orthodox, know very little about their faith.  I have a duty to teach

my IO friends about the foundations of Christian love before I even

bring up the issue regarding the heresy they unknowingly are part of.

  You see, not all the IO church is made up of heretics, but most

certainly their leadership is.  Just as it is our duty as (Syrian)

Orthodox Christians to bring to Christian love to the hearts of all

people, so too it is their duty to bring that into their church.



For true unity to occur, the IO church members really need to do some

soul searching and return to the (Syrian) Orthodox Christian faith

that was given to the Apostles by Christ Himself.  If an IO church

member is not in such a position, that person should affiliate his or

her heart with the (Syrian) Orthodox Church, thereby becoming a

Jacobite at heart within the IO church and helping to remove the

corrupt leadership.



Now of course, there is the question of those IO church members who

are directly opposed to the Holy Church (for as the creed says, there

is only ONE).  If you read the IOC forum or the MOSC forum, you can

see a deep-seering hatred for anything related to the Syrian Orthodox

Church.  The feelings themselves are unfounded.  It is simply their

way of dealing with their religious insecurity.  How can there be

unity with such folks?



Dear Junas, we must all be Jacobites at heart, but it is better if

those outside of the Orthodox Christian faith walk unified under our

shepherds, the Patriarch of Antioch HHMM Ignatios and the Maphriono of

all India HB Aboon Mor Basileos Thomas I.  For those who are in a more

difficult situation in the IO church and cannot directly come to

unity, they must unite within their hearts and be good Christian

examples for the rest of the IO church around them, declaring their

hearts to be Jacobite though they may be among wolves.



Mike Wingert

St. Mary's JS Orthodox Church

Santa Fe Springs, CA

Member ID # 0902

Matrimonial Digest / 0056-05



Dear members



We do not take or assume any responsibility for the particulars given by the

advertiser. Concerned parties are encouraged to verify the particulars. As per

the request of some advertisers we withheld the contact details and will forward

any reply to the advertiser for further personal contact.



Please read the successful stories of the matrimonial advertisement in the SOCM

forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOCM-FORUM/message/4384



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 027/04

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jacobite parents invite remarriage proposals for their

daughter/white&fair/28/152cm/M.com, DCA. Recordical proof only existed for the

first marriage and the  court declared the same as null and void. Please contact

by e-mail with details at at simiraj@...



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 026/04

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Suitable alliance invited for a God fearing Jacobite Girl, Working in UK, as

staff nurse she is in25, 5.4?, 59 KG, will be coming by middle of April. Her

father is a retired teacher; an active member of church, Mother is housewife and

one brother, working in Delhi. The boy should be God fearing, fair, caring,

having good manners and preferably from the medical background (BPT or any

other).



Interested parents may please contact at basilpaul@...; basilpaulk@...

, 9818730557 04842678110 (K.K Paulose)



+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 025/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Suitable alliance invited for a God fearing Jacobite boy, MSc. Computer Science

, 28, 173 cm, working in Chennai as Software Engineer. The boy hails from a

well-known family at Kanjirappara, Kottayam. His father is a Planter and mother

house wife. Two elder sisters got married. Interested parents may contact

punnoosekuttyj@... or at 098400-87509



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 024/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Suitable alliance invited for a God fearing Jacobite boy, B.Sc Computer Science,

29,5'8",63 kg, fair,working in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The boy hails from a

well-known family at Kundara, Kollam. His father is a retired Supt. in Court,

mother Rtd. State Coordinator in Rural Dept. One elder brother doing Business

and one elder sister got married. Interested parents may contact

joby007in@... or Thomas Abraham, +966 1 4885339 or +9660507432962



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 023/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Suitable alliance invited for a jacobite Girl, 22 years, 164cm,slim, M.com

final. Parents in Saudi Arabia. Family belongs to Angamally Diocese. Interested

parents may contact vvmvvm2003@...



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 022/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Suitable alliance invited for a God fearing Jacobite boy, B.Tech.(Electronics &

Communication), 28,173 cm, fair, presently employed as Senior Software Engg in a

reputed MNC in Bangalore. The boy hails from Kottayam. His father is management

executive in a reputed company in Kottayam, mother is housewife. He has got one

younger sister (B-Tech, Software Engg in reputed MNC, Bangalore), who is

married. The girl should be God fearing, fair, caring, having good manners and

preferably employed. Interested parties may please contact at

taabraham2004@...



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 021/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Looking for a good boy computer professional/engineer from a middle class family

from kerala preferably cochin orthodox/jacobite aged over 28 for our second

daughter aged 27 MCA slim good looking. interested persons may wish to contact

at george_kunju@... giving the details with code # MP-021/04.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 020/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



JacobiteChristian parents settled in Canada invite proposals for their daughter,

27 years old, fair, slim 5;5''tall with very high moral value. she is working

after finishing masters in chemical engineering. Proposals are invited from

parents of well educated boys from any christian denomination in North America.

Please e-mail thomekurian@... giving the details with code # MP-020/04.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 019/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Jacobite parents seeking alliance for their beautiful daughter 31yrs, height

5.6'' postgraduate teacher in a public school. Born and brought up outside

kerala. Parents settled in Angamally. The boy should be God fearing educated &

employed. Preferance will be given to boys working outside Kerala. Please

contact on mcsm53@... giving the details.



Please contact on mcsm53@... giving the details with code #

MP-019/04.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 017/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Suitable alliance is invited for a jacobite deacon,age 31, 5ft 5inch

B.A.,B.Ed.,B.D., M.Th., at present doing research work in university of Toronto,

canada)teaching in the seminary. family background: father, senior corepiscopa

in the church.mother house wife. one elder sister, lecturer, got married and one

younger brother advocate. for more information, mail to me

kjpunnachalil@... or moderator_socm@... with code # MP-017/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 016/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Suitable alliance invited for a God fearing Jacobite boy, B.E.(Electrical &

Electronics), 26, presently employed in Bangalore as Electrical Engineer in a

Consultancy firm. The boy hails from a well-

known family at Kumarakom, Kottayam. His father is a retired KSEB Sub Engineer,

mother is Govt. UP school headmistress and got one younger sister, who is

married. The girl should be God fearing, caring, having good manners and

preferably employed (In India or abroad). Interested parties may please contact

the boy's uncle at monthiruvanchoor@... or moderator_socm@...

with code # MP-016/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 015/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Suitable alliance invited from Jacobite parents for a Jacobite girl 23 years

/157 cm, God-fearing (Education :M.Sc in Electronics).



Please respond to pvvarughese@... or moderator_socm@... with code

# MP-015/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 014/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Retired PWD Contractor's family (Jacobite, Middle Class, Ernakulam

District)invites suitable proposal from middle class Jacobite parents of God

fearing girls under 28, 5'1', 48 Kg, employed or qualified to be employed

(prefer teachers or lecturers) in or around Ernakulam Dist. She has to look

after home affairs as the brother and sister of the boy to be working overseas.



Their son (32, 5'3" 55 Kg) is a Vet. surgeon in Kerala Government Service,

posted within few kilometers from home, fair, clean habits, soft spoken, thin

built and God fearing.



His has an elder brother and younger sister, both married.



Genuine enquiries may be posted to varkod@... or

moderator_socm@... with code # MP-014/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 013/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Jacobite parents from Ernakulam Dt.invites proposals to her daughter, who is

presently working at Bangalore. Educated and employed Jacobite youths working at

Bangalore are preferred. The proposals to be made from middle class family. The

boy should be God fearing. The girl is 25 yrs of old, 5.3". She had Completed

B.Sc.maths and have GNIIT, (3 yr computer diploma)course Certificate)

Please respond to eldhoshimmy@...> or moderator_socm@... with code

# MP-013/04



+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; code # 012/04

+++++++++++++++++++++++++



Proposals invited from parents of god fearing BSc nurses for a handsome Jacobite

boy, hailing from Kolencherry, 29/168 Graduate, only son, working as Marketing

Executive for a reputed Co. in Kuwait, active in church matters and having

family visa status. He has two sisters and both of them are well settled. The

girl will have good job prospects in Kuwait.



Interested please respond to:yeljoseph@... or moderator_socm@...

with code # MP-012/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 011/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Suitable alliance invited from Jacobite parents for a Jacobite girl(24 years/161

cm),fair,smart and God-fearing,B-tech with MBA,working in a leading firm in

Techno-Park,Trivandrum.



Please respond to thomasvt@... or moderator_socm@... with code #

MP-011/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 009/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Jacobite Parents from Perumany, 7 km from Perumbavoor (Angamali Diocese)invites

proposals for their son working in Dammam, Saudi Arabia as Project Co-ordinator.

Proposals to be from Middle Class family. The girl should be God fearing and

fair.



Please respond to aliyasissac@... or moderator_socm@... with

code # MP-009/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 006/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jacobite Parents from Kottayam Diocese invites proposals for their second son

PDC/30/168 working in MRF kottayam. Father doing business in Kottayam. Mother

Gazzetted officer in govt.One elder brother married(Working) and younger sister

studying.Graduates in any discipline or diploma holders in Nursing

(GNM)prefered.



Please respond to moderator_socm@... with code # MP-006/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 004/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Jacobite parents from Ernakulam Dt.invites proposals to their son. The boy is 30

yrs.old 5' 8". He is very handsome, brilliant(MA Rank Holder), God fearing Altar

Boy), presently working with a leading news daily at Ernakulam Dt. Proposals to

be from Middle Class family. The girl should be God fearing and fair. Nurses

working abroad are prefered.



Please respond to moderator_socm@... with code # MP-004/04



++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matrimonial; Code # 003/04

++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Jacobite parents from Kottayam invite proposals for their daughter, divorcee

with one girl child,)39 yrs.5'3", Home Science Graduate, mediumcomplexion, very

Home loving and God fearing, from JACOBITE Widowers/ Divorcees of 40 to 45 age

group, well settled in life in India or abroad, with clean habits, positive

attitude towards life and home loving.



Please respond to moderator_socm@... with code # MP-003/04

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!





"For He was not, as might be imagined, circumscribed in the body,

nor, while present in the body, was He absent elsewhere; nor, while

He moved the body, was the universe left void of His working and

Providence; but, thing most marvellous, Word as He was, so far from

being contained by anything, He rather contained all things Himself;

and just as while present in the whole of creation, He is at once

distinct in being from the universe, and present in all things by

His own power, -- giving order to all things, and over all and in

all revealing His own prvidence, and giving life to each thing and

all things, including the whole without being included, but being in

His own Father alone wholly and in every respect."



St. Athanasius the Great.



--------------------------------------------------------------



"Your hands have made me and fashioned me; Give me understanding,

that I may learn Your commandments." Psalms 119:73



---------------------------------------------------------------

Departure of the righteous Job.

Departure of St. Tadros, the disciple of St. Pachomius.

Martyrdom of St. Philothaos.

Departure of St. Jason, one of the Seventy disciples.

Departure of St. Otimus, the Priest.

Departure of Pope Gabriel IV, the 86th. Patriarch of Alexandria.

Dear Mr.Junas,



From your Mail:



>"As Mr. Ommen Thomas is, I too am basically from Tiruvalla and had been

>attending to the Masses offerred by both the factions in turn ( in the olden

>days) at Paliyekkara Church. Also I had no reservations in going to the other

>Churches in the locality such as Kattampurathu, and Chalakkuzhy-two churches. I

>had personal contacts with the Revered Priests of both the factions too in a

>very cordial way. Even to this day I have no preference to attending churches

>of either factions whenever I visit Kerala, as I firmly believe that the

>groupism in our religion which is being practiced from our forefathers' time

>is meaningless and keep hopes on the younger generation to break the

>barriers and get united for a fruitful future."



I am from Thiruvalla and I dont think Mr.Ommen Thomas referred to Thiruvalla in

his note.



As you correctly pointed out on having 'no reservations', Kattapuram,

Paliyekkara & Chalakkuzhy churches belong to IOC now and most of the people who

attend for the masses at these places are one and the same or from same family.

Let me explain for others. Kattappuram church was the mother church and its the

one and the same which has citations in Parumala Thirumeni's life. Paliyekkara

was also an old church and it was like a chapel for Kattappuram church. Few

families were attending qurbano here and the same was built on some other

personnel reasons. Then came the split in our church and 380 families lost the

church while 26 families had its pocession as the key remained at Kottayam

aramana. No one resorted to law-breaking and church capture.Rest it with the

decency,peace-loving nature of lack of back-bone for the office bearers of the

church committe that time.No arguments here.After the same, we and IOC shared

Paliyekkara church with turns. Kaniyamparampil Achen had been celebrating holy

Qurbano for us there for two sundays every month. Then came the peace drama and

later we lost 'the turn' also. Chalakkuzhy Church as the name suggest belongs to

the Chalakkuzhy family.The official name of the church is 'Thekke Puthen Palli

or St.Mulk Orthodox Church' and i think it needs no explanantion on how it came,

how it survived and whom it belongs to.



All these 3 churches are situated at less than a kilometer seperation. And there

is one more church. St.George JSO Chapel with over 400 families in this same

vicinity. This chapel was built overnight by the Jacobites and it still remians

as Chapel due to the cases and all.Someone among us had hopes of getting back to

Kattappuram Church if the 'Chapel' remains in name.I think it is the second

biggest edavaka in our Niranam diocease as of now (first being Kayamkulam

Kadissa)..Aji, please correct me if I am wrong here.



There is absolutely no case of 'having reservations' in going to any of these

churches as it should be the same people who should maintain these churches as

they aslo counts votes in the so called 'malankara association'.



Why there was a 'reservation' in going to this church to attend the qurbano ,

which is famous in the locality as 'chapel edavaka' or 'chapel' or 'kavumbhagom

chapel' ?



Moolelachen can also underline this history as he had been involved in spiritual

activities of this chapel/church even before I was born.



Now, regarding "Even to this day I have no preference " --- But I have

preferrences. I came back today morning only as I had gone down to thiruvalla

for attending our perunnal.On saturday, day before yesterday, our main raasa or

palli raasa (the concluding one) was delayed 1 hr to start by Kattappuram

palli's raasa as we have to go through the same way. Why? All of us were waiting

with the cross,muthukuda,nadapanthal and all for their raasa to pass through.

Why there was a big fleet of police including DySP there in front of us? Who

called them?What were they expecting? So, it was indeed intentional to give us a

late start and they really expected a raise of voice from us.And, Ommen Chandy's

Police was all set to take us right? Or was that an intention to leave us at the

mercy of the late evening showers which are common these days?Why?Is this a

matter of 'preferrence'??



Yes..we got wet by the showers but we completed the perunnal

properly.Padayathrayil mazha varunnathu anugrahavarshamanennu njangal

vishwasikkunnu.And we are not ready to go back.rather we will be prepared for

coming years.Let the church administration come itself to this generation.And

all IOC folks better watch out..we will spend more time on road in years to

come..If needed, we will bring all those chendamelam,margam kali,band

melam,parisha muttu and all in lorries to your individual homes and will perform

at our leisure.Someone from us will also become a 'political figure' in years to

come.Wait for that day..and challenge us not. All of us have much more days to

count ahead and we have pure blood running inside with strong back bone.. .wait

for that 'fruitful-future'



Why did the same Chalakkuzhy/St.Mulk/Thekke Puthe Palli file 3 court cases

against us when we decided to buy a land and have our own cemetery on the plot

which is very next to Chalakkuzhy palli? What has this church got to do with

us?Or, were they sadist enough to enjoy the indecent behaviour of all IOC

priests towards all 'jacobite dead bodies' which were taken to the Kattappuram

Cemetery?



I dont want to repeat all those dirty stinking stories again.But, it definitely

is a matter of 'preferrence' and 'selected reservation' as I could understand

from the 'peace-note'



Dear Mr.Junas, I really feel sad about the intentions in your note..in case it

had come from your heart. Just because of the reason that we dont want peace

after somebody eating our head.



Regards

Jojo

-------------------------------------------------

Alex Jojo Joseph

St.Mary's JSO Cathedral, Queen's Road, Bangalore

St.George JSO Chapel, Kavumbhagom, Thiruvalla

Member ID # 0910

With the latest round of postings on SOC/IOC controversies, I pose the question,

if Christ were to return to this world today, of the 2600+ religious

denominations in existence around the world, which

church would he attend?  Where would He look for His followers?



Rather than focussing on what separates us, why can't we consider what unites

us?  We all hail from the same the homeland.  We all participate in the same

sacraments, using the same language. Our families are related and friendly.  We

live next to each other. Our children study together and are friends. Our people

work in the same places.  Our people rely on each other when there is sorrow and

joy.  We read the same Bible and pray for the same Living God.  We are

all created by the same Living God.



Our calling is to worship and serve the One, Tri-Une God. The 'Christian' Church

is supposed to be a place of cohesiveness and unity.  If Christ, the true

spiritual head of the church, is not part of our discussions and long term

solution, there is nothing to be gained -- there is no honor and glory to God.



Christ unites - man divides -- in whom are we putting our trust?



Dn George Mathew

St. Thomas Indian Orthodox Church, Greater Washington

Member ID # 0967

Oommen Chandy and 3M



These days many rumours are spreading about CM Oommen Chandy. People used to ask

whether there is any hidden agenda for the CM. Does he have any special interest

in promoting his Christian community over others? Whatever be the truth such

allegations are being raised by leaders as well as common man of other

communities.



The prominent Hindu leaders of Kerala like Vellappally Natesan as well as many

others are saying that Chief Minister is under the influence of 3Ms namely the

MUTHOOT, the MANORAMA and the METHRAN.



Already the Congress leader V M Sudheeran ex-MP had asked for the resignation of

Retd. Justice John Mathew (who is a Devalokam insider and a close confident of

CM) from the enquiry commission appointed by CM Oommen Chandy for deciding on

the controversial mining around sea coast (Karimanal Khananam).  Many more are

presenting a detailed list of close confidents from the particular Christian

community of Oommen Chandy who are given high posts in Government institutions.

Rajan Chacko from Thiruvalla (now settled in madras), who is alleged to be

behind the recent SSLC Exam Paper leak, is said to be getting the help of CM. 

The fellow who is given charge of proposed Smart City at Cochin is said to be

from his community (political allegations has already been raised against this).

Another fellow from CMs community who is working as his right-hand is Giji

Thompson IAS.  Many have already raised eyebrows on his undue influence over CM.

Many allegations are flouting against this IAS fellow.



It is in the middle of all these allegations a group of Methran Kakshi laity

leaders under the banner -Orthodox Citizens forum-, assembled under its

president Jacob Mathew and praised Oommen Chandy for promoting those from their

community. They (citizen forum) are giving a list of their church members who

are given Government posts by Oommen Chandy. See the list.



1. Adv. Thomas Philip - as PSC member (He was the person who filed the case

against our Catholicose at Chenganoor Court in 2002. He is also the same person

who led the cases against the Jacobite Church at Kayamkulam and Kanjiramattom in

recent times)



2. Dr. Thomas John Mambara  -  as MG University Exam controller



3. Dr. Varghese Peryilined – as Kerala Syndicate Member



4. Former IOC CHURCH SECRETARY A K Thomas – nominated as Wages Commission member



The names of Retd. Justice John Mathai, Gigi Thompson etc, comes beyond this.

The list goes on.



So people in general doubt whether there is any truth in the allegation that CM

is under the influence of 3 M.



T M Chacko

Manarcad,

Kottayam

Member ID # 0903

The consecration rituals of the St. Mary's Jacobite Syrian Church at Kundara

will be held from May 13 to 15. The Catholicos, Baselios Thomas I, will be the

chief celebrant for the rituals.



The church has been constructed by the Kundara St. Mary's Trust. At a press

conference here today, the conveners of the consecration function, T.V. Punnose

Tharakan and Chevalier I. John Payattuvila, said that the church built in Gothic

style has been built at a cost of over Rs.90 lakhs.



A `panchaloha' flag mast has been erected in front of the church.



Source: http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/11/stories/2005051107330300.htm

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!





"In the Book of Proverbs it says, `Those who have no guidance fall

like leaves but there is safety in much counsel.' Take a good look

at this saying, brothers. Look at what Scripture is teaching us. It

assures us that we should not set ourselves up as guide posts, that

we should not consider ourselves sagacious, that we should not

believe we can direct ourselves. We need assistance, we need

guidance in addition to God's grace. No one is more wretched, no one

is more easily caught unawares, than a man who has no one to guide

him along the road to God."



St. Dorotheos of Gaza.



--------------------------------------------------------------



"I will praise You, O Lord, with my whole heart; I will tell of all

Your marvelous works. I will be glad and rejoice in You; I will sing

praise to Your name, O Most High." Psalms 9:1-2



---------------------------------------------------------------

Departure of St. Jason, one of the Seventy disciples.

Departure of St. Otimus, the Priest.

Departure of Pope Gabriel IV, the 86th. Patriarch of Alexandria.

Departure of Pope John the First, 29th Patriarch of the See of St.

Mark.

Departure of pope Yoannis the Fifth the Seventy Second Patriarch.

Dear ALL,



When fundamentals are wrong ,everything will go wrong! This can be proved

mathematically very well ! If the foundation is weak whatever you build over it

will remain weak.



Recently I was attending one ordination ceremony of a priest at our  Bangalore

church.The priest to be, signs by putting cross sign and declares his obedience

to the bishop and church few times. The bishop says whatever I reject,you will

also reject, and the priest to be agrees to it,in front of the holy altar.



Now what happens if that priests reject the bishop? He has already agreed that

,he will become stranger to church.(annyan).Will he go out of church or the

bishop will go out of church? When I was attending this ceremony,I was

wondering, if vattaseril metran has taken his ordination from Patriarch agreeing

to all terms ,standing in front of the holy altar and then rebels against the

Patriarch,automatically he becomes a stranger to the church.Worldly  honors he

will get does matter. Many buildings may be named after him. We should  not get

perturbed by that.Disobedience is not accepted by God.The fundamentals have gone

wrong!



The man who killed   Australian missionary.Stains,comes out from jail may become

a BJP minister and  later many statues of him may be made.He may look great for

few people but he will always remain a murderer in the realm of truth.! He can

not undo that.



Regards

V.M.Thomas

Membership no.907

Panambady St.Marys Jacobite church

Kottayam