All the four candidates were failed to gather 75% of the vote
of the association members in four round elections.

Fr. Kuriakose Edavazhikal bagged only 137,159,159 & 172 respectively
in four rounds.

Fr. C.T. Kurian positioned second with 75,107 & 108 respectively in
three rounds.

Fr. M.M. Kuriakose & Fr. Kuriakose Kolathu were unable to reach the
third round.

According to the constitution, the metropolitan candidate must have
75 % vote of the assembled members of the association.

267 association members were participated in the meeting, and 2
members abstained from the fourth round of voting.

Association president Fr. C.K Mathew preside the meeting at
Chingavanam Mar Aprem Seminary on 1st July 2003.

H.B. Basalius Thomas 1 in Chicago

H.B.Basalius Thomas 1 Catholicose of India arrived in Chicago
on 28th June to be the chief celebrant at the 'Pentamass' offered
on the occasion of the 25th anniversay of the first Malankara Syrian
Orthodox Parish in Chicago.

Members of all the five SOC parishes and friends from other parishes
participated in the event. Their Graces Dr.Yuhanon Mor Phelexenos
Metropolitan, Mor Coorelose Aprem Karim, Mor Ivanios Mathews and
V.Rev.Aboona Dayaroyo Morris cocelebrated in the Pentamass.

Rev.Fr.Skariah Thellappally and the members of the St.Peter's Parish
deserve unreserved praises in the organisation of this three day Jubilee
celebrations. Jubilee meeting was noteworthy by the presence of priests of
the sister churches as well as leaders of the church and society.

H. B. will celebrate holy Eucharist at the St.George Syrian Orthodox Parish
on 6th July and will be here till next Wed.

Those interested to attend the programmes next sunday may kindly contact
Tel.847 599 7985 or 773 205 1822

Lovingly
Moolelachen.

Dear respected members

SOCM Forum, wish to inform you all that, one of the
four Moderators of our Forum, Mr.Sinu P John,
S/o Mrs. & Mr. P.A. John, Punnasseril, is going to
marry Ms. Salini Mathew, D/o Mrs. & Mr. Mathew Peter
Putheeckal House on 6th July at Kothamangalam Mar Thoman
(cheriapally)Syrian Orthodox church at 6am.

We congratulate & wish a happy married life to Sinu & Salini.

And request the members to keep them in your prayers as they
are entering to the bond of Holy matrimony.

May the Lord God nourish them with all his blessings in their
life.

In Our Lords Love
Forum Owner & Moderators
SOCM- Forum

Dear Moderator,

the posting of Mr.Zacharia Minnu about Mor Ahattulla
Bava is certainly underlining the involvement of
Antiochean Church with malankara church. a true
believer cannot disagree to it but to respect it.

but is it justifiable the act of malankara church
members of 30,000 who gathered there in Mattanchery to
save their patriarch who went out to take an oath
alone. why did they not request for the holy body of
bava for a respectful funeral in one of our churches.
that is the tradition of syrian church. when Mor
Ignatius Noorono the Antochean Patriach was killed by
putting to lions the faithfulls received the holy body
for funeral. we have historical evidence of the
killing of bava but we could not do to find out the
place of death, the disposal of the body etc. is it
not our duty to build a suitable memory to Bava in
Cochin back waters where he was drawned. i had written
about it in one of the earlier postings also. i shall
appreciate it if our respectful Moolayil achan tells
us about it anthoritatively.

with prayers,

Dr.George, Dubai

--- In SOR-Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Ingram" <Brian.Ingram@x>
wrote:

While I agree with you Thomas that in a wider sense scripture says
that bishops govern over the church and as such have a collective
responsibility for it, however Peter was specifically refereed to in
both Matthew and John's gospel as having an overall shepherding role
in the church. As you put it ."There is no doubt about Peter's Primacy"
you go on to describe this primacy as one of  "not of power" , but a
primacy of Love and service that Jesus leaves him.

In fact we could say that all bishops have a primacy in the own jurisdiction
of love and service. However can we deny that they also have from Christ the
authority and power to exercise that love and service? In regards to what you
quoted from St Cyprian of Cathage here is the full text in which explains the
role of Peter and his office.

Cyprian of Carthage
"The Lord says to Peter: 'I say to you,' he says, 'that you are Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not
overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and
whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and
whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven' [Matt.
16:18-19]). . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives
the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like
power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he
established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that
unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a
primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one
Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the
flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord.

If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine
that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon
whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?"
(The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Regards
Brian
--- End forwarded message ---

"Then, what is the crowd (Luke 19:3) if not the confusion of the ignorant
multitude which could not see the Crown of wisdom? Thus, Zacchaeus, as long as
he
is in the crowd, does not see Christ; he climbs above the crowd and sees Him,
vix., having transcended base ignorance, he deserved to perceive Him for Whom
he longed. He fittingly added 'Because the Lord was to pass that way,' where
was either the sycamore or he who would believe, so that He preserved the
mystery and planted the Grace; for He had come thus, so that He would pass
through
the Jews to the Gentiles."

                St. Ambrose of Milan.

--------------------------------------------------

"My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings. Do not
let them depart from your eyes; Keep them in the midst of your heart." Proverb
4:20,21

--------------------------------------------------

Prayer Requests:

Please remember Peter Demian in your prayers.
Please remember in your prayers the 5 Coptic youth that have lost their lives
in a car accident on their way to St. Anthony Monastery in California. Also,
please remember those who were injured and the families in your prayers.
Please remember me in your prayers.
Please remember the following in your prayers:
Nadya Billatos - She is currently in a full coma and is on life support.
Amira Rizk - Hip replacement surgery on the 18th of June.
Esther - Intestinal problems
Nick Sarris - Will be undergoing a serious and complicated surgery for cancer
this Friday, May 2nd. Nick is scheduled to start chemotherapy and radiation
treatments over the next 6 months.
Fr. Augustine - Cancer in his leg and may need to have an amputation. God has
allowed Father Augustine a successful operation without the need for
amputation.
Sue S. - Advanced Cancer
Duff H.- Infection. He has recovered :)
Mina Aziz - Cancer
Helen P. - severe depression and diabetes.
Pamela P. - chronic depression and financial difficulties.
Caroline Kamal and her family - Caroline recently lost her father.
Shafika Guirgis - kidney failure
Mary Beth - Obesity & Diabetes
Jean Dallin - Neurological back problems
Therese - Emotional problems
Ryan - Behavioral problems. Little Ryan is possibly going back into
mainstream school.
Reggie - Cancer
Detra - Stress related health problems
Walter Jr. - Cancer. Walter is doing well with the chemotherapy and radiation
treatments.
Walter Sr. - Depression.
Denise I. - Breast Cancer.
Barbara - Depression & legal & financial problems.
Helen - Multiple health problems & depression.
Please remember the family of Hakim Shahata in your prayers.
Please pray for Madeline who has metastatic breast cancer.
Please pray for Cuba Plain who has cancer that is high up in the breast. She
is a mother of 3, ages 15, 12, and 7.
Please pray for Gabrielle Brewer who is pregnant with a potentially serious,
life-threatening illness for the developing baby.
Please remember Jessica in your prayers. Jessica is 15 years old suffering
from brain cancer.
Please remember Daniel who is 14 years old and has cancer in your prayers.
Daniel is in a serious condition and is getting very weak. He is the only child
to his parents. Because of your prayers, Daniel is responding well to his
medication and is getting better both physically and psychologically. Please
continue to pray for him and his family as they lost his mother unexpectedly.
Please remember Suzanne Hanna in your prayers.
Please remember Shwaki Ghobrial in your prayers.
Please remember Zouhair Macktaby in your prayers. Zouhair is suffering from
stomach cancer.
Please remember Hanan Shawki in your prayers. Hanan has a brain tumor and she
is a mother of two young Kids. Because of your prayers, Hanan is doing much
better.
Please remember Magdy Wadi in your prayers. Magdy has a brain tumor.
Please remember John Rittel in your prayers. John has cancer of the lymph
node and voice box.
Please remember Ibtesam Hweamel in your prayers.
Please remember our brother John in your prayers. John had a brain tumor
removed recently. He is a young servant with 4 young kids. John is getting
better.
Please pray for Eugene Boulis, for completion of immigration procedures and
securing a job.
Please pray for the unemployed to find jobs.

Please pray for the peace of the world.

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7

Dear Members,

We have published the Directory Of the Universal Syrian Orthodox
Church at our website "stmaryssharjah.com". kindly browse the site
and send suggestions for updating the details. If any one has
details of kandanad diocese and knanaya diocese, please let me know.
We have also published part of the Church calendar for 2003 which
may be useful to many of our members.

with best regards

Chevalier Dr.Mathews Abraham
Webmaster
stmaryssharjah.com

SOCM -FORUM members-

Where are we?   What is our direction?  What is our Church trying to
achieve-its mission?  It has been around for two thousand years, but are we
poised to be around for two thousand more?  I have read post after post in
this forum from people who's intent is not to educate but to belittle and
prove their own intellectual prowess.

I find this activity unproductive and creating an even greater rift between
our churches.

There are many in this forum that try to misinform the public.  I thank God
we have such men as our Moleeyal Achen, and others who take time out of
their busy day to educate the public so that more do not stray away.

If you notice our beloved Mooleyal Achen's postings you can discern a much
different tone in his diction.  It is not accusatory, but more nurturing and
loving-as a Christians should be when dealing with situations such as this.

I would ask that all who would post in this forum try to maintain that same
loving Christian air with their posting.

To answer my questions that I asked at the top of my posting:

Where are we?

We are at a crucial juncture in our churches long and fabled history.  The
decisions and moves we make can either destroy this church to the joy of
many--or strengthen our church to the Glory of God.

What is our direction?

This I cannot answer.  I do not know.  I know what my direction is.  I am a
24 year old malayalee syrian orthodox christian who resides in the USA.  My
church has enacted many programs to educate the youth, the young adults, and
the adults on our church history as well as many programs to spiritually
uplift our people.  I feel that my church is a paradigm for our archdiocese
and perhaps our universal church.  But we need to get all of our churches
world wide to our level.  My church, w/ all the great things that it has to
offer still is not perfect.

It is up to our leadership to set our direction.  We need a vision for our
church for the next twenty-years.  It needs to be publicized so that our
people will know where we are going and not lose faith because we have a
roadmap for the future.  This though a tough task, is one that must be done
or I fear that our two thousand year history will end up something that only
historical scholars have any idea about.

I believe that our Bava, our thirumenis, and our achens are capable of
putting forth this 'vision statement'.   I have faith that God will bless
them and that they will continue to guide us through this current mess and
give them a strong vision for our future.

What is our Church trying to achieve-its mission?

Again,  I don't know.  Know one has ever articulated that to me.  It seems
that our church's main mission from all of the postings is to preserve the
faith.  But I believe Christ commanded us to do more than that.  We need to
write down a mission statement for our church.  Whether it be to spread the
gospel, to develop our current members, to affect our communities, etc.  So
many of us do not know.  We just come to Church socialize, partake in our
share of the politics and go home.  What have we truly done?

Someone touched on it in the earlier post,  the diaspora of our people into
many different lands have caused them to attend other churches for their
spiritual fulfillment.  Why are we not growing to meet our peoples needs? We
have our youth who are falling prey to sex, drugs, and alcohol---why are we
not growing to meet their needs?   Divorce in our community--which a
generation ago was unheard of- is moving into the mainstream.  Are we as a
church able to cope with this?

Though we have two thousand years of history, a great liturgy and very
strong faithful we need to rise to the challenges of this century otherwise
as I said only historical scholars will remember our once great church.

In God's love,  I pray for all of you--please pray for me as well.

Jacob

Dear all,

I am writing this mail to give a reply to Mini Cherian. I am trying to
say what I know and what I learnt from my spiritual fathers in my short
lifetime.

Does any one think that our church is facing a critical problem? I don't
think so because when we look at the history of our church we can see the
problems that has been faced by our Holy fathers at Syria and even at
Kerala. Our spiritual father were forced to shift the PATRIARCHATE to
different places and at last OUR LORD gave a permanent palace in Damascus.
Considering those things we are facing nothing.

All of us know the purifying process of gold. Is the gold ore or the
gold, which we extract from it, more worth? Definitely the gold it self.
What makes that gold worth? The purifying process itself. The impurities are
removed by this purifying process (Heat). Like that our church is also under
the purifying process and impurities are being removed from our church in
the due course of time. Don't be afraid of the removal of impurities whether
it be a "Metran", "Achen" or any other else. God need the purified substrate
only not the impure one. Pray to HIM not to be separated from this Gold ore
as an impurity. Pray for him so that we shall be the purified gold that are
cast away from the purification process.

A sentence to Mini Cherian. Do you think that saying this faction
problem is a rubbish thing? Then you are absolutely wrong. I have only a
little Knowledge in my church history when I happened to know it. I am
dedicating my life to my church in every second because dedication is a long
process .Do you think praising the lord is the complete worship? Then it is
wrong because God created human being to praise him not only through prayers
and performing rituals but also by studying about Him and the church he had
created. Also we should safeguard the rich tradition handed over to us by
our Holy Fathers. This includes protecting our church from factions which
son the evil seeds of fable teachings and manipulated history. so talking
and creating awareness through argument can't be considered rubbish. Rather
it is a Christian & Orthodox way. When Jesus Christ cast away all
businessperson from the Jewish synagogue saying that they are making it a
den of thieves, he was doing the right thing. Then how come when the same
process is done in the present century becomes unworthy of a Christian
ideal.

Have you ever noticed the priest covering the Chalice & Paten with a
cloth called "Shoshapa"? Do you know why he does like this? It shows the
divine mystery that he had created in his creation. Our job is to find this
mystery that he had made in us at the scientific level. When we study about
science and the liturgy of our church we can find a lot of similarity in
them. So please don't say that these are all foolish or rubbish thing. WE
THE JACOBITE FAITHFULS ARE ONLY MAKE ARGUMENTS THAT IS AGAINST OUR
CHURCH.CAN ANY ONE CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE FOR A CHURCH WHICH HAS MORE LITURGY
THAN THE SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH?.IOC GOT IT FROM US BUT NOW THEY HAD CHANGED
THEIR "PROMIYON SEDRO" AND ALL THEIR LITURGY FOR THEIR "THOMA SIMHASANAM".
ANY WAY GOD HELP THEM TO THIK RIGHT

LOVE & PRAYERS
Joby Yeldo

Dear Sir,

Why your catholicose is superior than your other bishops? Is correct to
differentiate Them with HH and HG ? Priest hood is given to all, by the
apostles, as we sing In the church. (Nana jathivibhavngal keki"). If that
is correct a bishop,laymen And priests are same!.Is'nt it?

I believe Peter was head of the disciples, as appointed by Jesus before
departing from earth.

I believe that St Thomas is the apostle who converted the major bulk of Jews
and few natives Who were our forefathers .Our history says he has appointed
priests not bishops.

I would like to quote from  VCS,itself.

"there is no evidence that the Indian church sought to have or had bishops
from its own Indian Membership. Even when this Christian community had a
metropolitan with suffergans Assisting him,it had no Indian bishops'(Indian
Church and Autonomy-Article by Rev.V.C.Samuel)

Orginally, there was no bishops and separate priests,in the Christian
churches.(as seen in bible).Only believers and later elders and then came
bishops.

I believe that from the very beginning we are under the Syrian rites.
Antioch was the seat of Christians from the beginning.

Do you atleast agree with Canai Thoma and his group coming down.?
That is way back and your claim of only  300 years relation only is wrong..
Our Patriarchs due to political reasons would have lost the power and
position.

Even then till 3 rd Synod they were rated 3 rd in order. For you Pope HH
Senoda Is greater .It is like that for some!! But for us they are still the
Patriarchs. Head of our church (Princes)

I believe number does not matter and as it is said on you right side
Thousands and on the left side, there may be ten thousands. Since, Catholics
in Kerala (even on earth) are more in number will you accept your catholicose.
Is inferior to Their Pope ?So also if Jacobites are less in number do not
belittle HH.

I believe through Jesus any one can achieve Heaven  and our church Is path
towards Jesus and salvation for us. Our services and Qurbana truly are Holy.

But the Kingdom of heaven is free gift from God.We can not dictate  who
Are eligible and who are not.It is God who decides,only we have to pray
To include us also.Whom we think great may not be in Gods recokening!

Calling  us Jacobite is OK.We were called Nazarenes earlier.that is nick name.

Dear Thomas, What ever you shout from the top of hills You cannot change your
history. You are free to stay under Kottayam catholicose.But remember Your
constitution also recognize Patriarch as Head.

Love and prayers
vmt

---Original Message-----
From: Thomas PA
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:49 PM
To: vthomas
Subject: Re: Emailing: MalankaraChurch2

Dear V.M Thomas, I have few questions and am willing to
accept reasonable answers, setting aside any ego.

Do you believe that Apostle Thomas has equal power and
authority as Apostle Peter?

Do you believe that all priesthood is from Christ?

Do you believe that St. Thomas was the first Apostle
of the East who ordained bishops in the East?

In 1958, the Orthodox and Jacobites united under one
constitution. Then Catholicose accepted the Patriarch
by sending a letter, which explicitly mentioned
acceptance on the basis of const. of 1934. In this
const. our church is called "Orthodox Syrian church of
the East", described as founded by St. Thomas.

Do you accept this ancient name "Church of the East"
and ancient tradition of Eastern Christians (both
Persians and Indians)?

Our fathers rejected the name "Jacobite" and
considered it a incorrect to call a church by name of
only one saint (St. Jacob who received ordination from
Alexandria). Yet, why you officially accept the name
"Jacobite". Do you accept that the approach of your
bishops conforms to ancient fathers?

Kindly answer my questions. I want to learn the
Jacobite position and accept reasonable explanations.

Regards,
Thomas P

>---Thomas P wrote in SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, on Tue, 24 Jun 2003
in digest No. 605

>Dear Gleeson, The canons adopted in the Synod of Diamper is available.
>What does it say about Antioch? Since we know that the Synod was about
>bringing Malankara under the rule of Vatican, the Portuguese bishop
>would include some thing about pre-portuguese relationship with Antioch.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Sadly there is a tendency by some to establish that the Malankara Church
prior to the Portuguese arrival was Nestorian. To establish their view
point they are depending solely on the decisions of the Synod of Diamper
convened by a RC bishop.

But the fact remains that even based on the Synod of Diamper one cannot
prove that the Malankara Syrian Church followed Nestorian faith from its
beginning. Actually there are many hints in the decisions of that Synod
to prove that Jacobite faith existed in Malankara before the advent of
Portuguese.  Decrees 14, 16, 20 etc of 3rd session, 8th decree of 5th
Session etc. proves that Jacobite practices existed in Malankara. If
Jacobite faith came to Malankara only with the arrival of St.Gregorios
Bava of Paravur in 1665, as claimed by some modern historians, then how
these practices which were different from that of Nestorinism was mentioned
in the Synod of Diamper of 1599.

It would be better if those interested could spend some time in reading
E M Philip’s or Kanaimparambil Achen’s Church Histories for further
clarification on the subject. There is also another scholarly work named
“Were Syrian Christians Nestorians ?”, written by Fr.P T Geevarghese
(later Metropolitan Mor Ivanios), who later become the master mind in the
creation of a separate Church and a catholicate in 1912.  It was a thesis
submitted by him and is widely acknowledged as a genuine work. Here he has
categorically proved that the Church before 1490 was Jacobite.  It is a fact
that only after 1490, Nestorian faith penetrated into ‘Malankara’.  The author
has dealt in detail on each and every claim of some persons that the Malankara
Syrian church was Nestorian from its inception.  I recommend everyone to read
this scholarly work of Mar Ivanios of Bethany. The Malayalam translation of
the book was last published from Udayagiri Semimnary about a decade before,
the copies are available in some book stalls. In 2002 the English copy was
republished by Very.Rev. Kurikose Corepiscopa Moolayil. This book is definetly
an answer to those who doubt about the Jacobite faith of Malankara Syrian
Church prior to 1490.

John Philip

"...we should patiently endure all that God allows to happen to us so that we
may learn and gain experience and knowledge of our weaknesses."

                St. Peter of Damaskos.

--------------------------------------------------

"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I
will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever." Psalm 23:6

--------------------------------------------------

Prayer Requests:

Please remember Peter Demian in your prayers.
Please remember in your prayers the 5 Coptic youth that have lost their lives
in a car accident on their way to St. Anthony Monastery in California. Also,
please remember those who were injured and the families in your prayers.
Please remember me in your prayers.
Please remember the following in your prayers:
Nadya Billatos - She is currently in a full coma and is on life support.
Amira Rizk - Hip replacement surgery on the 18th of June.
Esther - Intestinal problems
Nick Sarris - Will be undergoing a serious and complicated surgery for cancer
this Friday, May 2nd. Nick is scheduled to start chemotherapy and radiation
treatments over the next 6 months.
Fr. Augustine - Cancer in his leg and may need to have an amputation. God has
allowed Father Augustine a successful operation without the need for
amputation.
Sue S. - Advanced Cancer
Duff H.- Infection. He has recovered :)
Mina Aziz - Cancer
Helen P. - severe depression and diabetes.
Pamela P. - chronic depression and financial difficulties.
Caroline Kamal and her family - Caroline recently lost her father.
Shafika Guirgis - kidney failure
Mary Beth - Obesity & Diabetes
Jean Dallin - Neurological back problems
Therese - Emotional problems
Ryan - Behavioral problems. Little Ryan is possibly going back into
mainstream school.
Reggie - Cancer
Detra - Stress related health problems
Walter Jr. - Cancer. Walter is doing well with the chemotherapy and radiation
treatments.
Walter Sr. - Depression.
Denise I. - Breast Cancer.
Barbara - Depression & legal & financial problems.
Helen - Multiple health problems & depression.
Please remember the family of Hakim Shahata in your prayers.
Please pray for Madeline who has metastatic breast cancer.
Please pray for Cuba Plain who has cancer that is high up in the breast. She
is a mother of 3, ages 15, 12, and 7.
Please pray for Gabrielle Brewer who is pregnant with a potentially serious,
life-threatening illness for the developing baby.
Please remember Jessica in your prayers. Jessica is 15 years old suffering
from brain cancer.
Please remember Daniel who is 14 years old and has cancer in your prayers.
Daniel is in a serious condition and is getting very weak. He is the only child
to his parents. Because of your prayers, Daniel is responding well to his
medication and is getting better both physically and psychologically. Please
continue to pray for him and his family as they lost his mother unexpectedly.
Please remember Suzanne Hanna in your prayers.
Please remember Shwaki Ghobrial in your prayers.
Please remember Zouhair Macktaby in your prayers. Zouhair is suffering from
stomach cancer.
Please remember Hanan Shawki in your prayers. Hanan has a brain tumor and she
is a mother of two young Kids. Because of your prayers, Hanan is doing much
better.
Please remember Magdy Wadi in your prayers. Magdy has a brain tumor.
Please remember John Rittel in your prayers. John has cancer of the lymph
node and voice box.
Please remember Ibtesam Hweamel in your prayers.
Please remember our brother John in your prayers. John had a brain tumor
removed recently. He is a young servant with 4 young kids. John is getting
better.
Please pray for Eugene Boulis, for completion of immigration procedures and
securing a job.
Please pray for the unemployed to find jobs.

Please pray for the peace of the world.

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7

Mor Thoma, Apostle
(Source:- http://sor.cua.edu/Personage/Qadishe/StThomas.html)

One of the Twelve Apostles, St. Thomas is prominent in the Syriac
tradition. He is mentioned in all four Gospels. In St. John, he
appears in three episodes, namely offering to die with Jesus on
His way to Bethany (Jn 11:16), interrupting the last discourse
with his question, "Lord, we do not know where you are going, and
how can we know the way" (Jn 14:5) and, lastly, doubting the
Ressurection unless he were to touch the wounds of the Risen Lord
(Jn 20:25-8). After Christ's appearance he confesses his faith in
the words, 'My Lord and my God' and is thus the first to confess
His Divinity explicitly. According to an early tradition mentioned
by Eusebius (Historia Ecclesiastica 3.I) and others, the Apostle
evangelized the Parthians. According to the Gnostic Acts of Thomas
in Syriac, where he is called Judas Thomas, he brought the Gospels
to India where he was martyred and then buried at Mylapore, near
Chennai (Madras). It is believed that the Apostle arrived in India
in AD 52 and was martyred in AD 72. The Syriac Christians of
Malabar, the Southwest coast of India, call themselves 'Christians
of St. Thomas'. It is believed that his body was transferred to
Edessa in the 4th century; St. Ephrem's works note that the bones
of St. Thomas were venerated there in his time. The great
hymnodist alludes to the transferral of the bones in his Carmina
Nisibena (42:1.1-2.2, Kathleen McVey, Ephrem the Syrian, Paulist
Press, 1989, p. 25):

The evil one wails, "Where then
can I flee from the righteous?
I incited Death to kill the apostles
as if to escape from their scourges
by their death. More than ever now
I am scourged harshly. The apostle I killed in India
[has come] to Edessa before me. Here is he and also there.
I went there, there he is.
Here and there I found him, and I am gloomy.
Did that merchant carry the bones?
Or perhaps, indeed, they carried him!

His relics were moved from Edessa later and rediscovered in this
century at the Syriac Orthodox Church of Mosul by His Holiness Mor
Ignatius Zakka I while he was the Archbishop of Mosul.

There are a number of apocryphal writings under his name, most
notably the Acts of St. Thomas which is of Syriac origin. This
work dates back to the middle of the 3rd century. Translations in
Greek, and portions in Latin, Ethiopic and Armenian exist.

The Church commemorates the memory of St. Thomas on July 3rd. The
date marks the transfer of the remains of the Apostle to Edessa.
The Church in India also commemorates the Apostle on the New
Sunday after Easter, on December 18th when the Apostle is believed
to have been speared, and on December 21st when he attained
martyrdom.

Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka I in an encyclical dated October 20,
1987, added the name of "Apostle Thomas, the preacher of the Holy
Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in India" to the the fourth
diptych (Syr. tubden) in the Malankara Church.

Link- http://sor.cua.edu/Personage/Qadishe/StThomas.html

Dear  Mini  Cherian.

I hope you go back and read some of the messages here  especialy
by Geesonus. But  I have to say this  in short.  I am defending
Jesus's  Bride.  Don't you think that is your duty too?  Chruch is
our Lord's  body and  Bride. By  splitting the chruch and
breaking away from it, one is trying to destroy that  body and
molest that bride.  I to the best of my ability will defend the
church and His bride.  That is why Jesus said , who ever follows him
has to take his cross.  If  Jesus meant evey time there will
be love he would not say this.  When I say I defend the chruch
I may use verbal defence, or user prayer or I am willing to die
for it just like many our fathers have done.

When Jesus was  Criuzified there were   three kinds of people.
1)  who  reliehsed at His death
2)  Who did not care
3)  Who cried about it and/or do something about it.

Today when his body is destroyed , the people follow the same pattern
as above.  Now If you look at Old Testment, God did not like or
favor people who prayed to him, loved Him, but did not obey
his commandments. ( I have quoted this in one of the prior posts)

So my defence is not limited to  IOC, but to  Pentecostals,
protestants and any one who preches that they are with God, but
do not follow His orders.

Hope you try to understand there is a probelm here.  Both are not
true.  either  IOC is correct or  JSC is correct.  I belive JSC
is the chruch because Bible clearly says "Obey the chruch". That is
what I do.  So  when  Jesus come for His judgement, I would
be in a safe side than questionable side.

Hope this helps

Paul

News- Crisis in 'IOC' over the diocesan division;  Priests
and Laity staged protest march  (from malankara voice)
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear SOC froum members

Now it has been proved beyond doubt that serious problem exist in
methran kakshi. General unrest of priests and clergy is spreading
in that group. This is what can be seen from the latest Mathrubhumi
report which was reproduced in Malankara Voice.
http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030627Mathr_MethManCom.htm

When I enquired about the said problem to one of the opposite
factions managing committee members who is my friend, he himself
admitted that there exists a crisis of very serious nature. He
told me that everyone was so disturbed, earlier they had not
experienced such problems.  In recent times many groups has
evolved and each are pitted against others.  One section of their
managing committee members expressed their anger over the
extraordinary interest taken by their sabha leadership for the
continuance of the sabha case. They warned that their leadership
is wasting huge amount of money for advocates like Nariman etc.
Without knowing that peace will not come by force. (Only recently
did mathews II bava publicly said that he had signed cheques for
crores of  rupess to conduct sabha case--There were newspaper
reports on this).

Possibly to divert the attention from these ticklish issues, our
dearest brothers of the dissident faction is claiming problems in the
other Churches. My advice to them is to first save their own group from
the crisis it is facing and later advice others.

----- "First remove the beam from thine own eye before you remove
the speck from your brother's eye".-------

1. MALANKARA CHURCH DISPUTE:- Peace talks resumed under Govt.
initiative.
http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030703Mang_PeaceTalks.htm

For more links click below
http://www.malankaravoice.cjb.net
http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/news_section.htm

Dear Sinu & Salini
May the God shower his blessing on this occasion

Isaac K Joseph

--- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, SOCM wrote:
> Dear respected members
>
> SOCM Forum, wish to inform you all that, one of the
> four Moderators of our Forum, Mr.Sinu P John,
> S/o Mrs. & Mr. P.A. John, Punnasseril, is going to
> marry Ms. Salini Mathew, D/o Mrs. & Mr. Mathew Peter
> Putheeckal House on 6th July at Kothamangalam Mar Thoman
> (cheriapally)Syrian Orthodox church at 6am.
>
> We congratulate & wish a happy married life to Sinu & Salini.
>
> And request the members to keep them in your prayers as they
> are entering to the bond of Holy matrimony.
>
> May the Lord God nourish them with all his blessings in their
> life.
>
> In Our Lords Love
> Forum Owner & Moderators
> SOCM- Forum

Dear brother
Best wishes & prayers

In Jesus
Susan Jose

Dear Sinu
Congratulation & best wishes

In Christ
Aji

oops! sorry guys about that divya sigh e-mail, i should have noticed
that there isn't even an e-mail address in it. guess i have been too
eager to help others
regards
jebin

Dearly Beloved Sinu and Salini,
Marriage brings perfection of joy
True joy unites persons in Christ
Unity is experienced in love
Love is the basis of unity
Love and unity binds all in God
Godliness is experienced in family
Family is the nursary where love is nurtured
I pray you be filled with love and Godliness.
With best wishes and prayers,
Lovingly,
Moolelachen.

I would like to give my sincere and warmest wishes
and prayers to Sinu and Shalini on this occasion.
May God bless you both on that day and years to come.

Good Luck!!!

Sincerely,
Ashley Chinnan

CONGRATULATIONS

from
Babu & Family - Kuwait

Dear Sinu

Though I can’t be their with you,
as you tie the knot...
I am sending you all my wishes
for this special band
that will hold two harts to beat as one
from this moment on
Congratulations!
May your wedding day be
A new beginning
To everlasting happiness!

In Christ
Rajan Mathew

Dear Sinu & Salini,

Best Wishes with Sincere Prayers

Thanks

Rajesh & Simi with our Little Rahul
Bangalore

Dear Thomas P,

May I ask, according to your interpretation and theory,

quote

He stood in their midst and said: ''peace be with you. As the father
has sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed
on them, and said to them, receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the
sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any they are
retained'' John 20:21 and 22). He thus ordained them priests, as we are
taught by our fathers the saints. Likewise, he ordained them bishops when''
He took them out as far as Bethany, and he lifted up his hands and blessed
them. While he blessed them, he parted from them and went up to heaven"
(Luke 24: 51 and 52)."

the priests also should be equal to St.Peter not only the Holy Catholicose
of Devalokam who is seeking shooting orders (police protection) of the
syrian orthodox christians in Kerala . You may at least agree that The
patriarch has the power to ordain a Bishop, and he also has the authority to
revoke it.

Your own quote
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins
of any they are retained'' John 20:21 and 22).

If that is the case, One simple thing which I have difficulty in
comprehensing is  How is one American Bishop Mor Nicholovose performing
priestly duties...If he can do it then isn't the whole IOC church
organization propagating FRAUD.  Besides,  In the name of PEACE AND UNITY
the IOC HOLY FATHER  is seeking court orders to shoot down Syrian Orthodox
christians in Kerala. My understanding is the Goverment of Kerala, and the
High Court of that state has refused to oblige to his wishes. Now he is
seeking the same from New Delhi. If this is not persecution, what is
persecution ????

I don't think this a fight for St.Thomas so that St.Thomas will  have equal
authority to that of St.Peter.

James

Dear Sinu,
Best wishes for happy married life.
Regards.
vmt

Dear Members,

If you ask any IOC member, who is above 40-45 of age, what is written
in their SSLC book the religion/caste : It's JACOBITE not Orthodox.
The Jacobite belief was that much deep rooted in earlier days, even
in the current days Orthodox members. Knowingly or unknowingly their
parents put it as JACOBITE.

A well planned hijacking of the poor JACOBITE members by the current or
the earlier IOC leaders really made the difference between the JACOBITE
and Orthodox, and they are successful in everything. First they changed,
rather I would say CONVERTED their priests to Orthodox, and then slowly
they imposed it on the poor layman, by distorting facts, chuch history
and arguments of modern day thinking, that is INDEPENDENCE. They have
forgotten one major teaching of our LORD JESUS CHRIST - to obey the
authority. IF the MM of IOC cannot obey Head of his Parent Church- the
Syrian Church, how his followers can obey him. Our LORD Himself submitted
to the authority of Pilate and then crooked Priests of that day, thus
shown a best example. The IOC leadership has really succeeded in corrupting
the minds of poor, innocent people of the Jacobite tradition.

With best wishes to all my FELOOW JACOBITES.
Yours loving in Christ,
Varughese CJ

It is a good news and good thinking of the Church authorities.
We should have done it years before.

Same time our brethren IOC will be also very much happy. They
got more chance to file case in the court. Poor IOC believers
now have to offer more "KIYMUTTHU".

In Christ
Aji Thomas David

Dear thomas p,

Cannons accepted by the malankara church in the synod
of udayamperror is available to anybody who is
interested. and like you have written,it is true that
the cannons or the whole discussions or other
decisions of the synod doesnt say anything of Antioch.

But neither it tells of an "indpendent orthodox church
with a premate seated in the throne of st Thomas".

like you had written earlier in this forum (pl check
back if you have forgotten) what ever history this
church had was done away with the advent of the
portugese and later the udayamperoor synod.

it was the aim of the portugese not only to bring this
church under the catholic church but also to wipe out
the remains of its traditions ( even wifes of the
married priests were forced to return to their
parental homes. they came back only after the advent
of Mar Abdul Jaleel of north parur.)

and so there is no complete proof for anybodys claims
on what was the exact status of this church prior to
the portugese.

My only argument is;

Why St Ignatious Ahatalla, Patriarch of Antioch, came
to this land soon after the synod of udayamperoor. He
came to this land undergoing severe hardships ( the
sea was controled by the portugese). He was caught and
was executed. Why it happened so??

Why 30000 syrian christians assembled in mattanchery
to save St Ignatious Ahatalla??. And later when they
knew of the death of "their" Patriarch, why they
revolted against the portugese which led to the coonan
cross oath??

So defenitly there  was some relation between those
syrian christians and St Ignatious Ahatalla.

And that is my only argument.

Rgds
Gleeson

Ps: please dont waste your time sending me links from
beth suryoyo. ( you could do that only because i have
my full details in the directory of this forum, a
matter which you should also think seriously, rather
than hiding behind some fictious email id's)

Public knows who is maintaining beth suryoyo and the
reason behind it.

there are n number of sites in the net downgrading the
catholic church.sites maintained by some ex priests of
latin america, priests who were send out of the church
for their relationship with the shining path.

but those sites cant do anything to the catholic
church.

neither will beth suryoyo to the Syrian Orthodox
Church.