--- In IndianOrthodox@y..., George Abraham <george11@e...> wrote:
Hi All,

I feel our church is facing a real crisis now.  In the media our
church is highlighted for all wrong reasons,either regarding a court
case or some law and order problem, "Holy Qurbana" under police
protection, one more church handed over for administration by a court
appointed Receiver etc, etc.About one year back, Asianet TV has
telecasted one of the most shameful incidents happened somewhere near
Moovattoopuzha in connection with the inauguration of one Computer
Institute belonging to our church. Two of our Bishops (One Bishop
from Orthodox and anothor Bishop from Patriarchial faction) were
shown virtually fighting in front of TV cameras.It will take years to
wipe out the memories of that shameful incident from the minds of
people who have witnessed that "show".

I am sure we all deserve a much better treatment.

It appears to me more a "Managerial Problem" facing our church rather
than anything else.  May be the Administrative Structure is so
centralized with no channel available for anybody to express their
views.  In the process, the true aspirations of the "people" are not
known to our church leadership.  An aging leadership with not much
talented "Support Group" can also be another reason for this sorry
state of affairs.

The most important current issue to my mind is that the litigations
should come to a peaceful end immediately.  As far as the general
members are concerned there is only one church.  (See the situation
when marriage proposals are handled in our families.  No sensible
person bothers, whether the proposal is from "Bavakkashi"
or "Methrankashi" irrespective of whichever faction he or she
happened to be)

The issues involved for the division has nothing to do with faith or
spiritual, but "purely political & materialistic", as I perceive.  It
is really unfortunate that, we all talk/preach and feel proud about
the "Christian Love" "Ultimate Sacrifice" etc etc and practice
exactly the opposite.  Whom we all are trying to fool?  Our Lord
Jesus Christ ? If my understanding is correct, we are paying a
particular Snr. Advocate of Supreme Court around Rs 1.00 lakh per
Hour/sitting!!!(Perks etc extra). Remember, we are paying this out of
the contributions made by all of us including the "penny donated by
the widow" as mentioned in the Bible!! What an irony??

The way things look, we can not expect any initiative from the church
leadership on this issue.  It appears there is total bankruptcy
of "ideas" and no sincerity at all.  The only wayout is we the
ordinary church members should raise our voice.  When our beloved
Bishops and other leaders come to our parishes, we should not
hesitate to question them on this vital issue.  We are talking about
a small church .. Berlin wall was broken...Cold war ended...Two
superpowers are now cooperating...South & North Koreas are going
to unite.. Even there is an earnest desire for India & Pakistan to
progress together...

So the writing on the wall is clear...YOU ACT OR PERISH!!!.....HOPE
OUR CHURCH LEADERSHIP, IF THEY LOVE THIS CHURCH WILL NOT ALLOW OUR
CHURCH TO PERISH?

Let us wish and pray that Year 2001 should be the "YEAR OF LOVE AND
UNITY FOR INDIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH".

I am convinced that our "strength" is enormous.Remember there is
something very special about we "YAKKOBAYAKKAR"(at least for two more
generations our community will be called that way only, inspite of
our new "IndianOrthodox" brand). How many of us know that in the
desert state of Rajastan, we have 14 Parishes/Congregations?These are
all not organised/built by the "church", but only by the shear
commitment and hard work of our "very ordinary members" who have gone
to these places for their livelihood!!

In UAE no Indian Church has got their own indepentant place for
worshipping (neither Marthomaites nor CSI, although all are trying
hard to get one indepentant place for worshiping, for the last 30
plus years), but we have three churches of our own(Abu Dhabi, Dubai &
Sharjah). This is only because of God's Blessings and due to the
efforts and commitment of our "ordinary members".


Remember this particular characteristic is found only in the "Kerala
Born Malayalees", to keep their identity whereever they are and our
church and Marthoma church are benefitting from this trend to a large
extent.No "British or American Christian Saayippu" will spend his
time or energy to organise a congregation/church of his own, once he
goes out of his country for any reason!!


I am sure with a "simple nod" by the "correct" leadership, "miracles"
can happen in this church everyday by utilising the "FIRE" within all
of us.  But I am afraid, our church leadership fails to channelize
this  energy  in a positive manner. I sincerely wish, this is the
time we should have minimum about 40 to 50 "SELFLESS" Bishops, whose
average age should not be more than 45 to 50 yrs to lead this "GREAT
CHURCH" and 50% of them should be concentrating in "Mission Works"
only on a rotational basis, away from the nittie-gritties of the day
to day administration of the dioceses etc. Remember H.H. Parumala
Thirumeni was ordained as a Bishop when he was hardly 28 yrs old,H.H
Pampady Thirumeni was ordained as a Rambachan when he was 21 years
and selected to be a Methrachan at the age of 26 years (understand
Pampady Thirumeni told the then Bava Thirumeni, I do not deserve such
a Great position and finally Vattacheril Thirumeni persuaded him and
ordained him as a Thirumeni when he was 42), imagine the Great Vision
of the then Leadership.There is also a need to fix a reasonable and
realistic retirement age for our bishops, exception can be there for
Bava Thirumeni(afterall human biological systems are the same for all
human beings, after a particular age everyone needs rest.)

If we are not imaginative & innovative, our situation will be nothing
better than the present state of affairs of Kerala. The neighboring
three southern states are having exponential growth in true sense....
we are struggling hard to pay the salaries for an inefficient and
self centered bureaucracy every month....Even God is helpless in our
case  it appears..??? If we all are not rising to the occasion to
open the eyes of the church leadership, probably our children will
not pardon us.

I have come out of Kerala, worked and travelled various
places/countries for the last 22 yrs after my graduation.  I can
confess, I am speaking from my heart.

With Prayers,

George Abraham
St. George Orthodox Church
Abu Dhabi
--- End forwarded message ---

Dear Members,

The schism in our church become to an ugly turn. Recently both
factions even started the street fight with the leadership of our
bishops from both side. I am sure there are people in both side wants
to end this, but they are helpless.

I will be posting some letters from the "Methran Kashi" members,
which appeared in the other forum. I hope this will understand us how
the other side thinks about the present situation.

Let we all pray to the almighty to help our leaders to solve this
problem.

In Our Lords Love
Thomas Daniel

Michael the Elder (Great) as Quoted in 'Michael the Elder, Chronique
de Michael Syrien, Patriarche Jacobite d' Antioche,' J.B. Chabot,
Editor, Vol. II, Paris, 1901.

"This is why the God of vengeance, who alone is all-powerful, and
changes the empire of mortals as He will, giving it to whomsoever He
will, and uplifting the humble beholding the wickedness of the Romans
who throughout their dominions, cruelly plundered our churches and
our monasteries and condemned us without pity, brought from the
region of the south the sons of Ishmael, to deliver us through them
from the hands of the Romans. And if in truth we have suffered some
loss, because the Catholic churches, that had been taken away from us
and given to the Chalcedonians, remained in their possession;
nevertheless it was no slight advantage for us to be delivered from
the cruelty of the Romans, their wickedness, their wrath and cruel
zeal against us, and to find ourselves at people. (Michael the Elder,
Jacobite Patriarch of Antioch wrote this text in the latter part of
the twelfth century, after five centuries of Muslim rule in that
region).

---

   BIBU PHILIP MATHEW

I am your new member.My greetings to all fellow members.


Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at
http://www.eudoramail.com

>>These are the pics of the remains of the boat of  Noah and was
>>  found at the mount of Ararat(Turkey), at where it is told that  the
>>boat was stopped..
>>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Window Quarterly
Vol. 2, No. 4, 1992
Copyright 1992

[Permission is granted to use, print, reproduce this article provided
the following acknowledgment is given: From Window Quarterly 2,4
(1992); ACRAG c.1992.

***
The Sacrament of Chrismation in the Oriental Orthodox Church

By Fr. Garabed Kochakian

A sacrament is to be understood as a 'gift' and not merely a
liturgical act; therefore reference to the 'Sacrament of Chrismation'
is best stated as a grace 'given' rather than a performed liturgical
rite. The explication set forth is primarily based upon the ceremony
celebrated in the Armenian Orthodox tradition, however the theology
of the sacrament itself is consonant and in compliance with the
Christological understanding among all the Oriental Orthodox
Churches; namely, the Syrian Orthodox, the Coptic Orthodox, the
Ethiopian Orthodox and Syrian Orthodox Church of India otherwise
known as Malabar.

In the tradition of all the national Oriental Orthodox Churches the
Sacrament of Chrismation is more clearly understood within the
context of the tripartite rite variously called THE RITE OF CHRISTIAN
INITIATION that includes the Holy Sacraments of Baptism, Chrismation
and Communion in that precise order of administration.  Indeed, each
is a separate gift of Divine Grace yet the blessings of each
sacrament that are imparted to the recipient become conjoined finally
with the essence of the Holy Trinity that has clothed the individual
with Divine Adoption, the Energies and Gifts of the Holy Spirit and
Membership into
the Mystical Body of Christ that  is the Holy Church.  We understand
that sacramental graces are unique and particular. But, at the same
time they collectively and cohesively co- operate with each other as
the life of the Christian develops in the Holy Church.

Therefore, the three sacraments within the rite of Christian
Initiation are essential to the wholeness and wholesomeness of the
life of every believer. The road toward salvation is opened through
the spiritual bath of Baptism in water and is generated with the
Baptism of the Holy Spirit by the anointing rite of Chrismation.
Finally salvation is assured with the reception of the Body and Blood
of the Lord, the
Christ. These three Sacraments when administered in this sequential
manner introduce the neophyte to the experience and hope of Salvation.

Oriental Orthodoxy affirms that one's spiritual development, growth,
maturation and fortification can only come about by a consistent
exposure and unified 'experience' of God's grace. Therefore this
faith experience is the way to salvation.

Conforming to early church practice of immediate inclusiveness, i.e.
persons of every age and gender, Oriental Orthodoxy adheres to the
belief that everyone should immediately identify with the community
and become truly part of the community in all things; from the waters
of the font, by and through the Spirit, to the table of the Lord. All
these moments of grace are essential and important.

It is difficult to speak about the Sacrament of Chrismation in an
isolated fashion without maintaining a constant regard for and
reference to the water rite of Baptism.  In fact, the action of
Chrismation, unfolds within the baptismal rite when the water itself
is anointed. Therefore it will be important to refer periodically to
the water blessing in the 'font'   as the meaning of the anointing
sacrament is further explored and explicated.

THE WATER RITE

The mystery of Baptism is the beginning of the life in Christ,
causing men to exist, live and excel in true life and being.  From
the eternal point of view, baptism incorporates a person as a child
of the Eternal Heavenly Father into the 'Body of Christ'. Through and
by the grace of this sacrament, one has been purchased outright by
God Our Father and begins to develop a new spiritual life which sets
him/her free from sin, making possible one's reconciliation with
God.  With these
Divine Graces there is a completed and harmonious unity with God.

Water is one of the primary, most ancient and universal of all
religious symbols. There can be no life without water yet
paradoxically it can destroy and annihilate life. Sacred scripture
reveals in the Old Testament that through the blessed water, God is
present: The voice of the Lord is upon the waters; the God of glory
thunders, the Lord, upon many waters. (Psalm 29:3)

Without the presence of God, humankind is doomed.  But as the
psalmist's declaration reveals, his power-filled presence assures the
redemptive and salvific action within all creation. When consecrated,
water indeed does save as it acquires the very breath of God;
permeating all created beings with his holy presence.

In the actual rite of blessing, in particular both the Armenian and
Syrian rites, water is anointed with the Holy Chrism (Meron) and is
infused with the Holy Spirit and presence of the Christ.  Saint
Ambrose comments on this divine epiphany saying, "The water does not
heal if the Spirit does not descend to consecrate it.  The water
which has the grace of Christ heals."

The Prayer Over the Water that appears in the Armenian rite is an
Epiclesis addressed to the Holy Spirit requesting Divine action and
descent for the sanctification of the water. We now therefore pray
thee, O Lord, send thine Holy Spirit into this water and sanctify the
same. And grant that this water... be unto him/her for the remission
of sins and for the reception of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Chrism is used not only to sanctify the water but to
permeate it. The water truly becomes the 'Christ Clothing' into which
the catechumen is immersed. Finally, the newly Baptized is attired by
donning a spiritual 'Garment of Salvation'.

Christ now dwells in the water which washes, cleanses, forgives,
saves and finally clothes. This is verbally proclaimed by the
priest, "You that have been baptized in Christ and have put on
Christ. Alleluia. You that have been enlightened in the Father, the
Holy Spirit shall rejoice in you. Alleluia."

CHRISMATION

The Chrismation rite is uniquely understood as the Baptism with the
Holy Spirit. Yet it still refers to the water rite whereon the Spirit
first hovered.

It is important to understand its the origin and semiotic character.
In the Old Testament writings, anointing is first associated with
authority. On the direct command of God, Moses received the tradition
of  the authority of the priesthood, kingship and prophecy (Exodus
28:1; 19:10). This theophany to Moses on Mount Sinai was a type of
sealing or sign, that imbued him with the authority to establish the
priesthood. Although Moses ,at first, anointed Aaron as a priest, the
rite of anointing that later developed in the Hebraic tradition
imparted an  authority  associated with 'kingship' as well. It was
first used by Samuel, in the anointing of King David (1 Kings 16:1)
and then in the anointing of Saul, (1 Kings 10:1). Yet the ritual of
anointing raises a question concerning the particular usage of oil as
a
symbol of God's salvific power and authority and not any other kind
of liquid.

Like water, oil has also acquired a functional purpose in creation
and as been likewise seen as an emblem of grace. It has been used as
medicine for healing, fuel to create light and warmth and as food to
sustain life. Moreover, oil is a symbol of reconciliation and peace.

After the Great Flood, a dove, bearing in its mouth a branch from an
olive tree, came to Noah and assured him of the end of the flood, of
God's forgiveness and of his own reconciliation with the Almighty
Lord God   ( Genesis 8:11 ).  Thus, this oil from the fruit of the
olive tree encumbers a number of semiotic allusions;  as an act of
redemption and reconciliation, a sign of protection and safety,  a
sign of
authority, leadership, commission and creation of new life. But most
importantly, it signifies that God's covenant with all of humankind
since creation has not been abandoned but has been faithfully kept as
Promise . This covenant is to restore all things to Himself; those
things in heaven and on earth. With and by this oil, He is present
and all who are sealed and anointed by this oil are imbued with His
presence as proclaimed by the Holy Prophet Isaiah, "The  Spirit of
the
Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me with oil, he has sent me
to bring  the good news to the poor." (  Isaiah 61:1 )

It is therefore essential to understand this prelude to the actual
Sacramental rite of Chrismation. In the ritual this holy oil not only
conveys the symbolisms already explained but more importantly
effectuates the mystical presence of Christ's Holy Spirit. Finally
through unction our own mystical transformation is made possible by
the grace given with the Blessed Meron The Oil of  Gladness.

Thus, oil is used  to seal, consecrate, validate and establish the
presence of the Kingdom made manifest upon those whom this mark of
anointing has been placed.  Protection, sanctification commission and
ministry are all effectuated by the mystical power and grace of the
Holy Spirit with the oil which marks and identifies the believer.
Anointing as Seal

As a seal oil is used to mark those called to salvation granting
protection to them as explained in the prophetic literature of the
Old Testament, "And the Lord said to him, go through the city of
Jerusalem and set a mark  upon the foreheads...touch not any  man
upon whom is the mark." (Ezekiel 9: 4-6)

With this oil of Chrism, Meron, those who are marked and anointed
with it become God's full possession; saved...and...sanctified.
Furthermore,the anointed ones become participants in process of
theosis, i.e. taking part in the Divine Nature of God.  Hence, this
Orthodox doctrine is made manifest by this heavenly grace imparted
and given with the particular Sacrament of Chrismation.

Thus Chrismation spurs these dynamics of Divine Power; Theophany,
Sanctification and Theosis. They are both inherently present and
operative in the life of the believer. The holy unction with Meron is
truly  God's act of  claiming full possession of us who he has
purchased outright  through the water rite of Baptism though not yet
removed [us] to his own warehouse  (Kingdom).

The Holy Chrism

This particular oil is called Chrism that derives its name from the
Greek word "Chrismata" which itself means anointing.  It is also
known by the word of Semitic origin Myron or Meron, [in Armenian
Miuron] which means sweet ointment.  The Chrism used in the Sacrament
fundamentally consists of olive oil mixed with the precious balsam
perfumes and essences of forty-eight kinds of flowers and other sweet
smelling herbs and ingredients.

The actual prescription for preparing a type of Meron/Chrism oil that
serves as a paradigm to such oils prepared today is explained in the
second book of the Pentateuch:

Moreover the Lord said to Moses, ' Take the finest spices; of liquid
myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet smelling cinnamon half as
much, that is, two hundred and fifty, and of aromatic cone two
hundred and fifty, and  of cassia five hundred, according to the
shekel of the sanctuary and of olive oil , a hin; and of these you
shall make a sacred anointing  oil blended as by the perfumes, a holy
anointing
oil it shall be...and you shall anoint Aaron and his sons and
consecrate them, that they may serve me as priests, and you shall
say to the people of Israel,  This shall be my holy an anointing oil
throughout your generation.(Exodus 30; 22-30)

It is with such oil that Christians are anointed and become a
"Royal People", imbued and dressed with a Christ-like essence, as
Saint Cyril of Jerusalem explains, "Take care not to imagine that
this  Myron is anything ordinary... (but) after the epiclesis, but
the charism of Christ, made efficacious of  the Holy Spirit by the
presence of  His Divinity." The sacred scriptures further clarify the
significance of this oil as the very essence and presence of Christ
Our God, "Your name is ointment poured upon me." ( Canticle 1: 3)

The Chrism is the Lord Jesus THE CHRIST Himself. The Spirit of Jesus
called Christos  {the Anointed One Gk.} is this Meron, sweet
anointing ointment, the mystical and spirit- filled presence of the
Incarnate Word, Jesus Lord God-- the hypostasis of Godhead and
manhood.

With the celebration of the rite of Chrismation, humankind
immediately experiences Theosis and at once participates in the
Divine Nature of God.  We  become that  which is poured upon us (cf.
Canticle 1:3). "It is as though the vessel of the alabaster were by
some means to become the chrism it contains." (cf. Mark 14: 3)

As occurred in the water rite of Baptism,in this anointing rite we
become clothed again with Christ.  We become a new "Christos".  This
new Christos  is not only imbued with Christ's Holy Spirit, His
Godliness, prayer, and love and compassion but he/she  receives by
this grace a crystal clear identity, truly 'confirmed' and validated
before the Eternal Heavenly Father.

Into the Body of Christ

From the waters of the font through and by the sealing with the Holy
Meron the gift of Chrismation assures a genuine continuity between
the entrance into and participation in the Mystical Body of Christ -
His Holy Church.  It is finally through the Eucharist that this
membership is maintained. The sacramental anointing balances this new
life  acquired by the grace of Baptism and by the believer attiring
and
putting on  the 'Christ Clothing' to ultimately become the fabric
itself; a new Christos. The grace of Chrismation strengthens and
confirms, one's life in the Holy Church, which moves toward an
everlasting life into The Kingdom and it eternally remains the energy
of that movement or 'spiritual progress' towards the Kingdom of God
forever belonging to Christ.

It is noteworthy to mention that in accordance with the rite in the
Armenian Orthodox tradition, this anointing is done always in the
name of Jesus Christ; making a new Christos (anointed one). "Sweet
ointment in the name of Jesus Christ is poured  upon thee as a seal
of the incorruptible heavenly gifts."

This chrism is  perceived not just as a Divine Energia but the
persona of the Holy Spirit of Christ Himself. The act of anointing
clarifies one's identity and membership into the sacred fellowship of
Christ.  All who have been   anointed form the new physical and
mystical Body of Christ. The chrismated believer becomes truly A
Christian in the very
essence, nature and spirit of the prototype The Christos, Jesus
Himself. Identity then is not conceptual but substantive; not merely
Christian but A Christian.

Everything which this Christian does hereafter is 'marked' with
Christ  and His Holy Spirit so that he/she  may be a temple and a
dwelling of thy Godhead and may be able to walk in the ways of
righteousness.

Christ's residency is validated by the sealing with the Holy Meron.
This seal is placed upon every part of the body that makes manifest
His presence in us and through us- both individually and corporately
in the Body of Christ.  The sanctification of the human physical body
through anointing is done so with the intention that the Mystical
Body, The
Holy Church is likewise marked, blessed and will be the final
repository of  grace.  By the Faith of the believer and the Works
borne and performed by that faith, ultimately the Church will become
that which is poured upon it a temple and dwelling of thy Godhead.
The believer through his/her works and deeds, wrought through the
anointed senses of the body, i.e. the forehead, eyes, nostrils,
mouth, hands, heart, back and feet, will become a New Christos.

Communion In Christ

It is finally through the Sacrament of Chrismation that the Church is
given life and breath. All who are anointed who have become members
of the Church are enabled to enjoin one another now in sharing in the
mystery of  The Christ Jesus in His Body and His Blood at the Holy
Eucharistic banquet.

Since the earliest tradition of the church until the present, this
reserved  privilege, sharing Christ in His Body and Blood, is
predicated upon one's full membership into the Christian Community.
Such an identity is ratified and validated in the Oriental Orthodox
tradition through the Sacrament of Chrismation.

This practice is rooted in the Mosaic Law concerning (cf. regarding
circumcision) membership. And now this same regard is transferred to
the Christian view of Table fellowship and Eucharistic sharing.
Circumcision was a 'seal' of the covenant, and only those who were
circumcised could partake of  table fellowship.

This praxis became transferred and basic to the Church. Only those
who were Chrismated and confirmed with the 'seal' of Jesus Christ
were allowed to enter into Communion with Him at His Holy Eucharist.

Born In The Spirit

"Unless one is born of the water and the  Spirit he cannot enter the
Kingdom of God" ( John 3: 3 ).

As the Sacrament of Baptism becomes one's  spiritual birth as a child
of God, the Sacrament of Chrismation is the movement  of this new
life toward God's Kingdom--'a spiritual progress'. It is a life now
conformable to the Son of God; a life of Theosis i.e. becoming Christ
and participating in His Divine Nature in entering His Kingdom.

Through Chrismation, humankind is born in the Spirit and progresses
toward perfection.  Though the power of these gifts of the Spirit are
not all visibly manifested at the very moment of the ceremony but
later in the spiritual progress of the life of the "New Christos" it
is certain that this powers' origin and cause is of the Divine
Godhead Himself.

Thus Chrismation is the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT of which Our Lord
speaks. It is our personal Pentecost. Through this sealing,
confirmation and anointing rite,the Holy Spirit opens up our physical
senses and gives the newly baptized the potential ability and energy
to progress in the knowledge of the Triune God and to practice the
virtues of faith, hope and a charity in the light of the grace of the
Holy
Spirit.

The tradition of the Orthodox, thus teaches the immediate need of
Chrismation as essential grace to give that mystical breath, spirit
and energy to the body born in the waters of Baptism.  The body
cannot move without the energy, guidance and grace of the Spirit
which is the breath of God placed upon us through this holy
anointing. As the Father sent me, so I am sending you. And saying
this he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit. (John 20:
19-23)

Christ's Holy Spirit with which we are graced and clothed at
Chrismation becomes His Breath upon and in us in the same way as He
breathed  upon the Apostles.  His Breath is now our breath, His
Spirit now resides in us.

Both the water rite of Baptism and the anointing rite of Chrismation
in the theology and tradition of the Oriental Orthodox Church are
essential to one's salvation. Each sacramental grace having its
unique salvific dynamic yet both dependent upon each other in
preserving the continuity of spiritual progress  toward perfection
and life in God's
Heavenly Kingdom.

While some non-Orthodox communions emphasize the Chrismation rite in
terms of community membership alone, the Orthodox perception is more
comprehensive because of the union with the Baptismal rite. It is by
this anointing one's salvation begins with the marking of the water
and the sealing of the body.

In conclusion, Orthodox theology of the sacraments is rooted in the
concept of wholeness..   The sacraments which are each individual
gifts of grace are likewise and even simultaneously components of
wholeness  of the soul and spirit.

When these sacramental graces are received, the believer moves closer
in   spiritual progress toward experiencing all the fullness of God.
The sacraments ,thus, are genuinely those gifts which show the plan
of God as he designed it for all humanity.

The Oriental Orthodox rite of Chrismation--the gift of Spiritual
Baptism-- assures us of  the presence of God's grace which is Christ
Jesus Himself. Our Saviour's spirit is poured upon us in order to
heal, make whole,and totally unite us with Himself and bring us unto
Salvation. Through this spiritual progress of every Christian, by the
anointing with the Holy Meron, one's  completeness is achieved as the
sweetness of this Life and Breath of Christ binds us all to God and
to each other.  Christ is our common antecedent and common
denominator; the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is
the road to salvation and it is by and with His Holy Spirit we are
able to move toward the Kingdom. As He said, "Unless one is born of
the water and the Spirit , He cannot enter the Kingdom of God. ( John
3:1-8  )

Now the grand design of God's plan though appearing to be completed
yet commences.  The life of A Christian has just begun and will be
completed in eternity, in the Heavenly Jerusalem, In Thy Kingdom
Come.

Sources

Cabasilas, Nicholas,  The Life in Christ, ( New York: St. Vladimir's
Press, 1974), p.101

Coniaris, Anthony M.  These Are The Sacraments. Minneapolis,
Minnesota, Life Publishing Company, 1981.

Dix, Dom Gregory. The Shape of The Liturgy.  London: Dacre Press Adam
& Charles Blackwell, 1970.

Kochakian, Garabed.  The Sacraments: The Symbols of Our Faith. New
York: Saint Varan Press, 1983.

Kaloustian, Shnork.  Saints and Sacraments. New York: Saint Vartan
Press, 1969.

Nersoyan, Tiran. The Order of Baptism According to the Rite of the
Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church.  Evanston, Illinois: Saint
Nersess Seminary Press, 1964.

Tawil, Joseph.   The Three Sacraments of Christian Initiation. West
Newton, Massachusetts, 1976.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hosny Hakim

COMMON DECLARATION

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

We, Pope Shenouda III, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of
St. Mark of the Coptic Orthodox Church, Patriarch Ignatius Zakka I,
Patriarch of Antioch and all the East of the Syrian Orthodox Church,
and Catholicos Aram I, Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia of
the Armenian Orthodox Church, and the members of the Standing
Committee: H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy, H.G. Bishop Moussa, H.E.
Metropolitan Theophilus George Saliba, H.G. Bishop Sebouh Sarkissian,
and Archimandrite Nareg Alemezian, who are with us, give thanks to
God for bringing us together once again in the context of this Fourth
Meeting of the Heads of the Oriental Orthodox Churches in the Middle
East, March 15-17, 2001, at the St. Mark Center of the Coptic
Orthodox Church, Nasr City-Cairo, Egypt.
.
.
II. Theological Dialogues

A. Oriental Orthodox Churches-Eastern Orthodox Churches

1. We discussed the actual state of the theological dialogue between
the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches, and emphasized the
importance of this d ialogue for the full unity of Orthodox Churches.

2. In response to the invitation of His Holiness Alexy II Patriarch
of Moscow and all Russia, we appointed Metropolitan Bishoy,
Metropolitan Eustathius Mattha Rohom and Archimandrite Nareg
Alemezian to participate in the meeting of the Coordinating
Committee. This Committee, which will meet in Moscow, March 20-22,
2001, will prepare the agenda
for the meeting of a larger Committee. The purpose of this Mixed
Committee will be to discuss the present situation of theological
dialogue between the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches, and to
explore the possibilities of enhancing this important process. This
Committee will also identify specific areas of closer ecumenical
collaboration between our Churches and the Russian Orthodox Church.

3. The Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church in June 2000 and the
Permanent Holy Synod of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria
and all Africa in November 2000 have approved the pastoral agreement
reached between them regarding the mutual recognition of the
sacrament of the holy matrimony blessed in their respective churches
in case of mixed marriages. We welcomed this significant ecumenical
initiative, as we did in respect to a similar decision contained in
the agreement that was reached between the Syrian Orthodox Church of
Antioch and the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch.

---- end of message forward ----

Thomas Daniel

To all members

His Holiness Pope John Paul II, Bishop of Rome, and His Holiness
Karekin II, Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of All Armenians, give
thanks to the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, for enabling them to
meet together on the occasion of the Jubilee of the Year 2000 and on
the threshold of the 1700th anniversary of the proclamation of
Christianity as the state religion of Armenia.

For more deatials please go to following URL

http://www.atour.com/~aahgn/news/20001112c.html

In Our Lords Love

Thomas Daniel

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> Dear Members
  1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there
in Syria
> died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox
priest a
> martyr, NEVER U will find.

St. Thomas!!!  St. Thomas was a Malayali Orthodox Apostle who
died for all Indians. I said St. Thomas was Malayali because
in Christ race, ethnicity etc. vanishes. Indians (Hindus, Sufi
Muslims, followers of Budha, Jains, Parsi, Malankara Nazrani etc.)
were tolerant to other religions and that is why our Church did
not produce many Martyrs.  In the middle-east and West, people
have an aggressive nature, probably because of excessive meat
eating and wine drinking. Let us remain thankful to the great
Indian civilization and maintain it in our lives.

>Then why should I join subversion against Holy
> Throne Of Antioch.

A throne is holy only if it maintains the Orthodox faith.
This is an ancient teaching. Alexandrian Throne is
holy because it maintains the true faith. Syrian Church of
Anthioc currently lives in communion with RC, so the
Throne is not Holy according to ancient traditions of the
Church (please read St. Cyril, St. Severus etc on this matter).


>What Malankara bishop's party has its own apart
>from what it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint
>or priestly name
> or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.
>

Almost all the names used by Malankara bishops are
Coptic/ Greek. Athanasios, Kurillos (Cyril), Diascoros, Makarios,
Anthonios etc.  originated from Coptic Orthodox Church. The name
Severios is also not Syriac. Infact St. Severios did not write in
Syriac. Everything he wrote was in Greek.

The attire currently used by Syriac Orthodox priests are similar
to that of RC. For example, their cap is similar to that of
Pope of Rome. Bishops also wear this kind of "makki Thoppi" similar
to muslims, but in black color. The red attire of Syrian Bishops
also is a copy of RC tradition. Only in head cover of monks and
Bishops, the Syrian Orthodox Church truly follows the Alexandrian
Coptic tradition (i.e. head cover with 13 crosses). Syrians got
this from Alexandrian monks. The same is used by Indian monks.
Original Syrian attire for Bishops is very close to what we see
in Icons of St. Issac of Nineveh (Mar Issahac in Diptych #5) which
is very similar to that used in North India among Rajasthani People
and Sikhs (made of a long piece of cloth). Ethiopian Monks also
wear such head cover made of yellow cloth.

Hence the argument that Malankara clergy follows Syrian style dressing
is no justification for the claims of Syrian authority over Apostolic
Indian (Oriental) Orthodox Church.

Thomas.

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> Dear Members
>
> I am loyal to Holy throne of Antioch for above reasons. Syrian
Prophets are
> no doubt trustworthy and through sacrifice & Christ's love they have
shown
> us by coming to poverty stuck India from Land of MILK and HONEY, and
they
> have seen footsteps of Christ, we believe by seeing some of us, but
they see
> all Biblical sites daily hence their faith should be little more,
may be
> that's why Parumala Thirumeni asked us to visit these sites to
increase
> faith at least by seeing.

Poverty stuck India!! Is that the general image you Western/
Middle-Eastern Semitic people have about India??

By the immense blessing of God, India from ancient times was
a land rich in MILK, honey and spices. Middle eastern merchants
came from their arrid lands to take these from India. Cows are
abundant in India. Almost every home (including Christians)
owns atleast one cow. How many Syrians owns a cow? or do they
drink camel milk?? We consider it a blessing that we have
enough food in our land (infact excess wheat and milk).

Please don't get too emotional. No Eastern Orthodox Church or
Oriental Orthodox (except the Syriac Orthodox which removed
itself from Oriental Orthodox communion because of communion
with Roman Catholics based on Petrine Supremacy theory) believes
in Petrine Supremacy.  In ancient writings the name of
Syrian Patriarch is second only to that of Coptic Patriarch
of Alexandria (the great defenders of Orthodox faith). The
Syrian Church got the Orthodox faith from Alexandria. St. Jacob
Burdana was ordained by an Alexandrian Patriarch. Thus the
broken lineage of Anthioc was reinstated. Armenian Church
was founded by St. Andrew, The Church of Constantinople was
founded by St. Barthalomew. Similarly the Coptic Church
was founded by St. Mark. All of these are true Christians
acts. Their is no ethnic pride or arguments of Superiority
here. Only the Syrian Church following Roman Catholic line
of thinking preaches these false teachings against ignorant
Indian Christians. This is NOT Christian in any way!

Regarding liturgy, it is not proprietary intellectual property
of a Church. Only the highly racial and ethnic "modern" Syrian
church believes in this un-Christian way. The Ethiopian Liturgy
is from the Alexandrian Coptic Church. Yet the Patriarchs of
Alexandria does not claim any intellectual superiority over
Ethiopians.

> 1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there
in Syria
> died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox
priest a
> martyr, NEVER U will find. Then why should I join subversion against
Holy
> Throne Of Antioch. What Malankara bishop's party has its own apart
from what
> it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint or
priestly name
> or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.

The dress used by Syrian bishops originates from Alexandria.
The head cover with 13 crosses it was traditionally used by
Egyptian dessert fathers. Ancient Syrian attire was more close
to modern Assyrian attire. Observe the Icons/image of St. Issac the
Syrian, Canayi Thoma etc.

Can you answer who murdered the secretary of Vattasheril Thirumeni?
Please don't pretent to be clean people. Is is not very difficult
to understand the desire of bishop Divannasios and the people
who support him. Please be realistic. There is no need to give
any importance to Syrian Patriarch because he is not Orthodox.
Instead, follow the path of the Alexandrian Patriarch. This is
an advice to you as a Malankara brother belonging to the same
blood.

Thomas

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> Dear Members
>
> I am loyal to Holy throne of Antioch for above reasons. Syrian
Prophets are
> no doubt trustworthy and through sacrifice & Christ's love they have
shown
> us by coming to poverty stuck India from Land of MILK and HONEY, and
they
> have seen footsteps of Christ, we believe by seeing some of us, but
they see
> all Biblical sites daily hence their faith should be little more,
may be
> that's why Parumala Thirumeni asked us to visit these sites to
increase
> faith at least by seeing.

Poverty stuck India!! Is that the general image you Western/
Middle-Eastern Semitic people have about India??

By the immense blessing of God, India from ancient times was
a land rich in MILK, honey and spices. Middle eastern merchants
came from their arrid lands to take these from India. Cows are
abundant in India. Almost every home (including Christians)
owns atleast one cow. How many Syrians owns a cow? or do they
drink camel milk?? We consider it a blessing that we have
enough food in our land (infact excess wheat and milk).

Please don't get too emotional. No Eastern Orthodox Church or
Oriental Orthodox (except the Syriac Orthodox which removed
itself from Oriental Orthodox communion because of communion
with Roman Catholics based on Petrine Supremacy theory) believes
in Petrine Supremacy.  In ancient writings the name of
Syrian Patriarch is second only to that of Coptic Patriarch
of Alexandria (the great defenders of Orthodox faith). The
Syrian Church got the Orthodox faith from Alexandria. St. Jacob
Burdana was ordained by an Alexandrian Patriarch. Thus the
broken lineage of Anthioc was reinstated. Armenian Church
was founded by St. Andrew, The Church of Constantinople was
founded by St. Barthalomew. Similarly the Coptic Church
was founded by St. Mark. All of these are true Christians
acts. Their is no ethnic pride or arguments of Superiority
here. Only the Syrian Church following Roman Catholic line
of thinking preaches these false teachings against ignorant
Indian Christians. This is NOT Christian in any way!

Regarding liturgy, it is not proprietary intellectual property
of a Church. Only the highly racial and ethnic "modern" Syrian
church believes in this un-Christian way. The Ethiopian Liturgy
is from the Alexandrian Coptic Church. Yet the Patriarchs of
Alexandria does not claim any intellectual superiority over
Ethiopians.

> 1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there
in Syria
> died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox
priest a
> martyr, NEVER U will find. Then why should I join subversion against
Holy
> Throne Of Antioch. What Malankara bishop's party has its own apart
from what
> it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint or
priestly name
> or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.

The dress used by Syrian bishops originates from Alexandria.
The head cover with 13 crosses it was traditionally used by
Egyptian dessert fathers. Ancient Syrian attire was more close
to modern Assyrian attire. Observe the Icons/image of St. Issac the
Syrian, Canayi Thoma etc.

Can you answer who murdered the secretary of Vattasheril Thirumeni?
Please don't pretent to be clean people. Is is not very difficult
to understand the desire of Thomas Mar Athanasius and the people
who support him. Please be realistic. There is no need to give
any importance to Syrian Patriarch because he is not Orthodox.
Instead, follow the path of the Alexandrian Patriarch. This is
an advice to you as a Malankara brother belonging to the same
blood.

Thomas

Please pray for the Church in
Egypt.


Egyptian Police destroys a Coptic Church and hospitalizes its priest,
after local bishop asks for permission to hold prayers.

Washington DC (2/26/2001)--U.S. Copts Association received credible
information that On Saturday 2/24/2001, over 100 policemen,
accompanied by few lieutenant and Generals as well as 5 bulldozers
stormed the Church of (St. Bola) located in Shobra Elkhaima
(Qalyubia) and under the bishopric of H.G. Bishop Marcos. The priest
servicing the Church, Fr. Bola, refused to leave the church in
protest of the action by the police. The bulldozers started
destroying the church while the priest was inside and he was later
hospitalized in serious condition with visible wounds and emotional
shock and distress.

The church building was bought and owned by H.G. Bishop Marcos,
bishop of El-Qalyubia, since 1998. The building, which is a four
story in height, was being prepared by the Coptic Church to be used
for prayers and charitable work.

Bishop Marcos told US Copts Association that on Monday 2/19/2001 he
sent a letter to the interior ministry requesting a permission to
open the building to be used for Sunday school classes, daycare,
medical facility as well as a church. Five days after the bishop sent
his letter requesting permission for the building, the police stormed
the building and demolished it.

According to Bishop Marcos, the police are still carrying on the
action of destroying the building, until the time of this release,
and have barricaded all surrounding neighborhoods and refused to llow
Muslim and Christian residents back into their homes. I fears that
such action by the police will aggravate the Muslim and Christian
communities in the area and may start another wave of violence
against the Copts. "Already Muslims are blaming the church and the
Copts for the police presence in the area and disallowing them back
to their homes" said the bishop.

This aggression by the Egyptian police is an example of what takes
place from church to church in Egypt during the application of the
Hamayni Decree, which prohibits Christians from building a church
without getting permission from President Mubarak himself.

We call on the Egyptian President, Prim Minister and Minister of
interior to launch an investigation into this incident now and to
allow the people to go back to their homes. We also call on the
government to compensate the Coptic Church for the destruction of
this property.

Hosny Hakim

Dear Members

Delhi is the capital of India, Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) is
the capital of Kerala. But you cannot say Trivandrum is capital of India.
Same way St.Thomas was an emissary with carte blanche, he is only an
Ambassador, not head of Government/Church, only a representative of church
sent by St. Peter chief apostle to whom Jesus commanded Peter "U are ROCK",
I will build my house on this ROCK, I give U keys of heaven. Hence St.Thomas
has no signet or throne he is only a minister/governor of Throne of Antioch
founded by St. Peter along other 11 disciples. Obedience is a virtue in
spirituality, Jesus said 'a student is not above his teacher’, hence
students (all Syrian bishops) should respect teacher (Christ and his
disciple Patriarch of Antioch). Peter was first Patriarch of Antioch.

Any person who has an attachment Syrian along his church has to understand
he has/had some connection to Syrian church whether he accepts it or not.
You cannot change your paternity whether you like it or not? Generally some
bishops after learning Syriac, wearing Syrian priestly attire, getting every
thing from Syrian Patriarchs wants to kick them off and rule Malankara as
sole Leader. Patriarch is never interested in being leader of Syrians in
India unless we accept and demand the same. Patriarch Peter III before
drafting first constitution of Syrian orthodox Church in 1876 asked Kerala
Syrians to sign a bond saying they like to keep loyalty to throne of Antioch
at their self free will. Unlike pope a dictator (not a member of WCC)
Patriarch gives absolute freedom to its people to choose. All Syrian
patriarchs who came to India came at request of us especially during
Portuguese persecution; unlike other church leaders they had spiritual
powers too. All Syrian prophets sacrificed their lives and came by Sea to
India, some even died showing Christ's love, which malayali bishop other
than Parumala Thirumeni ordained by Patriarch had spiritual power or led a
simple humble saintly life and payed tribute visiting Patriarch and
Jerusalem.

General public is ignorant about all this so they listen to bishops who have
time only for their self-interest. There was a secretary of Malankara
bishops’ party whose mother refused to accept last sacraments from priest
her son brought and insisted that she want it from priest ordained by
patriarch of Antioch only. Patriarch never interferes in internal affairs of
church; Indian President never interferes in internal affairs of
administration.

If somebody feels we are surrendering churches to Patriarch, they are free
to go from Syrian church and establish Indian orthodox church, rather than
taking all Patriarchal gifts teaching, prayer, Syrian names, dress, church,
schools, Antiochian faith, goodwill etc.

Some bishops brought an ex-patriarch (senile) from Syria and found Malankara
Orthodox church initially and all people in Kunnamkulam used to call it
'vachukettipattam'. Later reigning patriarch forgave them and issued new
'pattaam' to them, once they got it after promising to end all subversive
activities, these south malayali bishops again started subversive activities
with support of some industrialist and parvenus. Parumala Thirumeni was
patriarchal secretary ordained bishop by Patriarch Peter III, Parumala old
church is named St peter also is fact that a "tree is known by its fruits”.
Even Satan was an angel, Judas was a disciple of Jesus, hence there is no
wonder if bishops betray patriarch and oppose even His Holiness visit to
India or spread theory of Throne of St.Thomas etc...Christ himself warns of
false prophets and not to quarrel in the name of disciples...

I am loyal to Holy throne of Antioch for above reasons. Syrian Prophets are
no doubt trustworthy and through sacrifice & Christ's love they have shown
us by coming to poverty stuck India from Land of MILK and HONEY, and they
have seen footsteps of Christ, we believe by seeing some of us, but they see
all Biblical sites daily hence their faith should be little more, may be
that’s why Parumala Thirumeni asked us to visit these sites to increase
faith at least by seeing. 1000s martyrs of Syrian church are there in Syria
died for their belief, can U show me 1 malayali Malankara Orthodox priest a
martyr, NEVER U will find. Then why should I join subversion against Holy
Throne Of Antioch. What Malankara bishop’s party has its own apart from what
it has acquired from Patriarchs, not even 1 Prayer or saint or priestly name
or dress. Slight differences are deliberately made now.

Pope has only time for confession. "At least in spirituality there should
not be any adulteration”, I think. I don’t know much about Thoziyoor church,
Patriarch signed treaties forgiving Pope in 80s, as pope wanted it as both
church were founded by St.Peter’s a competition Malankara bishops party who
were refused by catholic church for cooperation because of subversion
against St.Peter’s immediately signed treaties with some other Coptic
church...

With love

BIBU PHILIP MATHEW


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

To all members

An article from Rev. Fr. K.K. John, Vicar, St. Thomas Syrian Orthodox
Church, Washington DC.

In Our Lords Love

Thomas Daniel
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> PS: The article in Glastonbury Review is possibly by Abba Seraphim,
> bishop of the British Orthodox Church and relies heavily on Western
> histories written by Catholics and Protestants who had their own
> agenda in the Middle East. The British Orthodox themselves for
years
> had attempted to be in communion with the Syriac Orthodox until the
> mid 90s, when they joined the Copts.
>

Hi reji and thomas.

The reason why I joined this discussion group is to learn more about
a fellow Oriental Orthodox Church along with the Coptic.  And I am
slowly trying to put things together as this is the first time I've
encountered such history b/w the Syrian Orthodox Church and the
Indian Orthodox.

Can you please tell me more about the above information you posted
regarding the British Orthodox Church.  I remember Fr.Gregory of the
British Orthodox Church came to visit us in Melbourne Australia and
he mentioned the BOC trying to unite with the Antiochian church and
it didn't work out because of problems.  He also mentioned that
Abba Seraphim was advised (in love and meekness) to seek communion
with the Coptic Orthodox.  What was the reasons behind this, and
were there, is there any problems still within the Syrian Church as a
whole?  Forgive me if I'm wording things wrong... I'm an amateur in
this area.

I also remember Fr.Gregory stating Abba Seraphim tried with the Greek
Orthodox too.  He said all the Easterners were concerned about is
land, money and the number of people within the Church.  Things didn't
work out there.

In XC
Emil

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:

> For someone who would point to you the "tainted history" of the
> Syriac Orthodox Church, I have a retort: What good has come of the
> Malankara Church in the near 2000 years of its existence? The Syriac
> Church has produced innumerable fathers and doctors who are today
> held in reverence by Christians all over the world. It produced the
> earliest translations of the bible, innumerable commentaries on the
> Bible, 80 anaphoras, thousands of metrical hymns and homilies, and
> the list goes on. What has the Malankara Church, with its apparent
> glorious history produced during the same 2000 years? If the history
> of the Syriac Church was that bad, why are the Malankara Orthodox
> still using exclusively all the fruits of that dubious history?
>

Dear Daniel, Writings of Syrian fathers were not always in Syriac
as you think. Some wrote only in Greek, e.g. Patairch Severios,
you may not like him these days since you accept RC. There is
nothing wrong in an unity with RC, provided it happens after
discussion with rest of Oriental Orthodox Churches. That should
be our Christian way.

Also liturgy is not an intellectual property of an ethnic Church.
Ethiopians use Coptic liturgy for sacraments, but in Geez, Amharic
language. Indian Churches use Syrian liturgy as it was used
in Jerusalem. We follow the Jerusalem writes received from,
Mar Gregorios of Jerusalem, but in Malayalam language. Also
many of our customs are different from that of Syrians.
Similarly Coptic Church also produced many theologians and
saints.

It is not that we didn't had our own liturgy. We had everything,
but foreign churches imposed their liturgy on us and distroying
our works.

Malankara Church does not lack in theological scholars and
spiritual writings. There are many commentaries of Holy
Eucharist written by 20th century Malankara  fathers. In the
area of theological dialogues with Eastern Orthodox, theologians
from India contributed more than any. If you catalogue the
works properly, perhaps 20th century Malankara Church
produced more works than 20th century Syrian Church.
Syrian Church did produce great works when the concentration
of the Church was more on spiritual matters. Todays Church,
I fear is a shadow of past glory. I think any Church has a
dynamic existence confronting contemporary problems. Projecting
just works of the past in not enough. Fathers of the past,
when they wrote, were writing in respinse to problems they
faced at that time, mostly theological controversies. But today
we face more problems than this, especially problems created
by advances in technology and changes in life style.
Writings of some of the 20th century Malankara Fathers are more
popular in Oriental, Eastern Orthodox and RC world than any
other works originating from Oriental Orthodox Church.

Some how we tend to give our own leaders and their works a
low value. This lack in self confidence is due to our West-centric
view of Christianity. Indian Christians tend to think that
Christinaity is a Western (middle-eastern in your case) Semitic
faith. But the Church of new testament can exist in a non
semitic world. That is the beauty of Orthodox Christianity.
Today we have Churches in all Indian cities, mission centeres
with the full support of the Indian goverment. Do you know the
reason why Indian government support the mission of Malankara
Church and not RC?


T

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> Dear Thomas
>

> Even accounts of a single incident widely vary. For e.g., Catholics
> claim that in Koonen Kurishu Sathyam, people took an oath only
> against the Jesuits, the Indian Orthodox claim that they took an
oath
> of independence, where as our faction claims that they took an oath
> to be under Antioch. I think the reality was closer to rejecting the
> Roman yoke, but it is hard to tell. The fact of the matter is that
> even if historians or archaelogists were to come up with evidence to
> support any of the statements, it doesn't make even a bit of a
> difference in the positions of the denominations. When history
> becomes inconvenient, it is conveniently forgotten.

Please do not consider this response a counter argument to impose
my views on you. I am interested in knowing if we had any connection
with West Syrian Church of Anthioc prior to 1965. I know about
the connection of Malnakara Christians with persian Church.
This is one reason why Catholics use chaldean syriac. Even in
rest of the community, commonly used words are in chaldean
syriac.

In writing history, the West is perhaps far better than East,
especially Indians.  In India, there is no tradition of writing
history. This makes it easy for various Churches to create
their own history and take advantage of the lesser.

There is historic evidence, in Syrian tradition and Indian tradition
that "Koonan Kurish" oath was for re-establishing ties with Anthioc.
I was reading a book written in the 17th century by an Anglican
on the situation in India at the time of Koonan Kurish. There is
absolutely no mention of Anthioc there. On the otherhand it is
our common faith that the Indian leader of Indian Christians,
i.e. Thoma, sent messengers not only to Anthioc, but to the
Patriarchate of Alxandria also. Remember that Alexandrian connection
is not something new. There is historical evidence that St. Demetrios
the Patriarch of Alexandria sent St. Pantaneus to India. Can
you provide evidence for any connection of Indian Church with
Anthioc prior to 1965??

By the way what is wrong with India, Indians and Indian bishops?
Are they not human beings just like Syrians? Or is it that Syrians
are superior to Indians. Let us think in Christian terms keeping
the Orthodox faith. I am looking for concrete evidence that supports
your view about Indian Church founded by St. Thomas.

My view is that, St. Thomas establishing a Church in India is
very similar to St. Mark's mission in Egypt and Alexandria. Only
difference is that India was outside of Byzantine and Roman
empire, so Patriarchates in the model of Churches in middle east
and Africa, did not develop in India.  Situation in India
would have been much different, if our connection was with
Alexandria and not with Syrian Church. Major cause of divisions
in the Indian Church is the political unrest in the Syrian Church
in the 20th century.

T

Dear Thomas

What is the point though? Is the claim that the history of the Syriac
Orthodox Church is somehow tainted? I would be the last person to
argue against that. From that perspective the entire history of the
Christian Church be it in the East or the West is tainted and
reflects human frailty and weakness, often at its worst. I would
readily admit that the turn of the 20th century was probably the
worst period in the history of the Syriac Orthodox Church. The
Ottoman empire exerted its heavy hand on the church and the spiritual
life of the church under the subjugation of the Moslem empire had
reached a low point. In those days, a Patriarch was the civil head of
his community, the millet, and was even responsible for collecting
taxes. He could be in that position only with the firman of the
Caliph and the Caliph would give the firman only to someone who made
a payment. This set the stage for corruption in the church. The
tussle between Patriarch Abded Messiah and Patriarch Abdulla II
happened during this time and was most unfortunate for the Syriac
Orthodox Church. Vattasseril Mor Dionysius, who went to Patr. Abdulla
for consecration as Metropolitan later took advantage of a
disgruntled Abded Messiah and got him to consecrate a Catholicos.
This was all during a time when the Syriac Orthodox in Turkey were
under complete disarray and immediately later thousands of them were
massacred by the Ottomans. Our people never once during all the
centuries of our association extended a helping hand, but instead
took advantage of the situation. Fortunately, with Patriarch Elias
III, the church came under the spiritual guidance of one of the most
devout leaders of modern times and ever since has made progress under
the succeeding Patriarchs. To extrapolate the history of a few years
around the turn of the 20th century and paint the entire history of
the Syriac Church with a broad black brush is just malicious.

For someone who would point to you the "tainted history" of the
Syriac Orthodox Church, I have a retort: What good has come of the
Malankara Church in the near 2000 years of its existence? The Syriac
Church has produced innumerable fathers and doctors who are today
held in reverence by Christians all over the world. It produced the
earliest translations of the bible, innumerable commentaries on the
Bible, 80 anaphoras, thousands of metrical hymns and homilies, and
the list goes on. What has the Malankara Church, with its apparent
glorious history produced during the same 2000 years? If the history
of the Syriac Church was that bad, why are the Malankara Orthodox
still using exclusively all the fruits of that dubious history?

Personally, I think that history, esp. in the context of the
Malankara Church, is used as a weapon selectively when it suits a
denomination's claim to antiquity. The Catholics claim that St.
Thomas Christians were always Catholic and make tenuous arguments to
support that. Malankara Orthodox claim historical independence, where
as some people with extreme views in our faction claim that they were
always under Antioch. None of these positions are close to the truth.
Even accounts of a single incident widely vary. For e.g., Catholics
claim that in Koonen Kurishu Sathyam, people took an oath only
against the Jesuits, the Indian Orthodox claim that they took an oath
of independence, where as our faction claims that they took an oath
to be under Antioch. I think the reality was closer to rejecting the
Roman yoke, but it is hard to tell. The fact of the matter is that
even if historians or archaelogists were to come up with evidence to
support any of the statements, it doesn't make even a bit of a
difference in the positions of the denominations. When history
becomes inconvenient, it is conveniently forgotten.

My point is that arguments based on history have little bearing on
the current situation. If the different factions were to rise above
the mean spirited struggle over money and power, focus on the will of
God and attempt to resolve differences amicably in a Christian
spirit, unity is possible. Hatred, even when justified by historical
reasons, will never lead to Christian unity. If anyone thinks that I
am going to be swayed away from the church that is the source of my
spiritual heritage because of the actions of isolated people in its
history, they are totally mistaken.

In Our Lords Love
Thomas Daniel

PS: The article in Glastonbury Review is possibly by Abba Seraphim,
bishop of the British Orthodox Church and relies heavily on Western
histories written by Catholics and Protestants who had their own
agenda in the Middle East. The British Orthodox themselves for years
had attempted to be in communion with the Syriac Orthodox until the
mid 90s, when they joined the Copts.


--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., thomas_pa1@y... wrote:
> Here is a good site to learn the true history of
> the Syrian Orthodox Church:
> http://www.uk-christian.net/boc/102f.htm
>
> Especially read the portion beginning with
> "In 1906 Patriarch Abdul Messiah II was duly deposed
> and Môr Abdullah, backed by Môr Ivanios of Jerusalem and
> Môr Timotheos at Constantinople, .... "
>
>
> T

Here is a good site to learn the true history of
the Syrian Orthodox Church:
http://www.uk-christian.net/boc/102f.htm

Especially read the portion beginning with
"In 1906 Patriarch Abdul Messiah II was duly deposed
and Môr Abdullah, backed by Môr Ivanios of Jerusalem and
Môr Timotheos at Constantinople, .... "


T

Greetings to all

I was watching the argument of Mr. Thomas PA vs Thomas Daniel. It is
getting more interesting twist. Hope everyone can benefit from their
argument. Let the holy sprit show them the truth path.

In Jesus Name
Danny

Sir,

I personally do not believe in faction politics. I can understand
your difficulties and emotions.

When we have an example of Christ who belittled himself
from birth to death, how can I  belittle some one more
than Christ did for himself?  This is just a humble question.

Unity is a simple, yet the most profound concept in Christian
faith, especially Orthodox faith. What unites two churches is
not worldly authorities and power, but the true faith. I am
not forcing my thoughts upon you, but sharing something
because as an Indian Christian, unity of spiritual sons of
Apostle Thomas must be our first preference. Take each
interaction our Indian Church had with foreign Churhces,
you will see that each one caused a division in
Indian Church.  Why this? Why?

I sincerely request you (and me too ) to study the true nature
of Oriental Orthodox Christianity in the context of Coptic and
Ethiopian Churches, since we all follow the basic faith preserved
by the Coptic Church and also in our times follow the path of
Patriarch Shenouda who is a saint among us.

Sincerely,
Thomas

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> Dear Thomas
>
> This style of argument and genre of writing is all too familiar to
> us. Many persons has for several years belittled the Patriarch and
> the Patriarch faction among Oriental Orthodox Christians on the
> internet, spreading the most blatant lies and gossip.
>
> As far as we concerned, the bottomline is that if the Catholicos
> faction thinks that they can subjugate the Patriarch faction they
are
> dreaming. We have no intention of forcing the Catholicose faction to
> accept the authority of the Patriarch against their wishes; however,
> they are hell bent on forcing their authority over people who wish
to
> be under the authority of the Patriarch through unethical means.
> Fortunately, we live in civilized societies where freedom of
> religious belief is a fundamental right and I am guarding mine very
> zealously!
>
> Keep in touch
> in Our Lords love
> thomas Daniel
>
> --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., thomas_pa1@y... wrote:
> > --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> > > Dear Emil Mishriky,
> > >
> > > Let Our Lord's blessing with you
> > >
> > > As u assumed, we are one of the Oriental Orthodox Church. Our
> head
> > is
> > > the Patriarch Of Antioch and all the east.
> > >
> > > There is no eastern orthodoxy in India so far.
> >
> >
> > There is a Greek Orthodox mission based in Calcutta. Visit
> > here:
> > http://www.ocmc.org/countries/india/
> >
> > This mission calls themselves the "India Orthodox Mission"
> > and claims that their mission is the first Orthodox mission
> > in India after St. Thomas. In the future they may develop
> > in to an "Indian (Greek) Orthodox Church", especially
> > since a situation of tension exists in the true Orthodox
> > Church in India (i.e. the Malankara Church).
> >
> > > Regarding the schisms, one group within our church is trying to
> > > become an independent church under the Catholicos of East. This
> > > crated a very sad divisions and court cases by our brothers.
> > > We all Hope a day will come to end of this schisms. Please pray
> for
> > > that.
> > >
> > > Please also try to visit the following community and try to
> become a
> > > member of it.
> > >
> > > http://communities.msn.com/StGeorgeSyrianOrthodoxChurchCheppaud
> > >
> > > Be in touch with us
> > >
> > > In our Lord's Love
> > >
> > > Thomas Daniel
> > >
> >
> >
> > The Malankara Church of India is an integral part of
> > Oriental Orthodox communion. Established by St. Thomas
> > in India, the Church accepted the Syrian rites against
> > the rites imposed by Portuguese RC. The Malankara Church
> > ordained their first "Mar Thomas" by their own priests
> > laying hands of "Jathikku-Karthavyan" (leader of the
> > community) Thoma and named him the first "Mar Thoma".
> > Current succession of Malankara Church is from this
> > "Mar Thoma".  Malankara Church is divided in to Malankara
> > Jacobite and Malankara Orthodox. Malankara Orthodox following
> > the "Mar Thoma" lineage mantains the traditional identity
> > of the Church and Malankara Jacobites increasingly
> > adhere to traditions of West Syrians. Malankara Jacobites
> > have several agreements with RC and Greek Orthodox. They
> > also accept their sacraments (communion. marriage etc.)
> > as valid in some cases.
> >
> > The Malankara Orthodox maintains strong ties with Coptic
> > and Ethiopian Churches. The Malankara Orthodox also
> > acknowledges the "Spritual" authority of  Oriental
> > Orthodox Patriarch of Anthioc while not accepting the
> > intrusion of Patriarch in matters of internal administration
> > which has caused much divisons in the past (formation of
> > Mar Thoma Church, Thozhiyoor Church, Independent Knanaya
> > Church just examples). The Church maintains that according
> > to the protocol signed between Anthiocian Patriarch and
> > Catholicos, the administrative authority of Malankara Church
> > is the Holy Synod of India whose head is the Catholicose and
> > "Mar Thoma". Malankara Jacobites on the other hands wants
> > the Syrian Patriarch to rule the Oriental Malankara Church
> > and are submitting Indian Churches of Malankara Nazranis
> > to Syrians.
> >
> > In Christ,
> > T

Dear Thomas

This style of argument and genre of writing is all too familiar to
us. Many persons has for several years belittled the Patriarch and
the Patriarch faction among Oriental Orthodox Christians on the
internet, spreading the most blatant lies and gossip.

As far as we concerned, the bottomline is that if the Catholicos
faction thinks that they can subjugate the Patriarch faction they are
dreaming. We have no intention of forcing the Catholicose faction to
accept the authority of the Patriarch against their wishes; however,
they are hell bent on forcing their authority over people who wish to
be under the authority of the Patriarch through unethical means.
Fortunately, we live in civilized societies where freedom of
religious belief is a fundamental right and I am guarding mine very
zealously!

Keep in touch
in Our Lords love
thomas Daniel

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., thomas_pa1@y... wrote:
> --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> > Dear Emil Mishriky,
> >
> > Let Our Lord's blessing with you
> >
> > As u assumed, we are one of the Oriental Orthodox Church. Our
head
> is
> > the Patriarch Of Antioch and all the east.
> >
> > There is no eastern orthodoxy in India so far.
>
>
> There is a Greek Orthodox mission based in Calcutta. Visit
> here:
> http://www.ocmc.org/countries/india/
>
> This mission calls themselves the "India Orthodox Mission"
> and claims that their mission is the first Orthodox mission
> in India after St. Thomas. In the future they may develop
> in to an "Indian (Greek) Orthodox Church", especially
> since a situation of tension exists in the true Orthodox
> Church in India (i.e. the Malankara Church).
>
> > Regarding the schisms, one group within our church is trying to
> > become an independent church under the Catholicos of East. This
> > crated a very sad divisions and court cases by our brothers.
> > We all Hope a day will come to end of this schisms. Please pray
for
> > that.
> >
> > Please also try to visit the following community and try to
become a
> > member of it.
> >
> > http://communities.msn.com/StGeorgeSyrianOrthodoxChurchCheppaud
> >
> > Be in touch with us
> >
> > In our Lord's Love
> >
> > Thomas Daniel
> >
>
>
> The Malankara Church of India is an integral part of
> Oriental Orthodox communion. Established by St. Thomas
> in India, the Church accepted the Syrian rites against
> the rites imposed by Portuguese RC. The Malankara Church
> ordained their first "Mar Thomas" by their own priests
> laying hands of "Jathikku-Karthavyan" (leader of the
> community) Thoma and named him the first "Mar Thoma".
> Current succession of Malankara Church is from this
> "Mar Thoma".  Malankara Church is divided in to Malankara
> Jacobite and Malankara Orthodox. Malankara Orthodox following
> the "Mar Thoma" lineage mantains the traditional identity
> of the Church and Malankara Jacobites increasingly
> adhere to traditions of West Syrians. Malankara Jacobites
> have several agreements with RC and Greek Orthodox. They
> also accept their sacraments (communion. marriage etc.)
> as valid in some cases.
>
> The Malankara Orthodox maintains strong ties with Coptic
> and Ethiopian Churches. The Malankara Orthodox also
> acknowledges the "Spritual" authority of  Oriental
> Orthodox Patriarch of Anthioc while not accepting the
> intrusion of Patriarch in matters of internal administration
> which has caused much divisons in the past (formation of
> Mar Thoma Church, Thozhiyoor Church, Independent Knanaya
> Church just examples). The Church maintains that according
> to the protocol signed between Anthiocian Patriarch and
> Catholicos, the administrative authority of Malankara Church
> is the Holy Synod of India whose head is the Catholicose and
> "Mar Thoma". Malankara Jacobites on the other hands wants
> the Syrian Patriarch to rule the Oriental Malankara Church
> and are submitting Indian Churches of Malankara Nazranis
> to Syrians.
>
> In Christ,
> T

--- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Daniel Thomas" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
> Dear Emil Mishriky,
>
> Let Our Lord's blessing with you
>
> As u assumed, we are one of the Oriental Orthodox Church. Our head
is
> the Patriarch Of Antioch and all the east.
>
> There is no eastern orthodoxy in India so far.


There is a Greek Orthodox mission based in Calcutta. Visit
here:
http://www.ocmc.org/countries/india/

This mission calls themselves the "India Orthodox Mission"
and claims that their mission is the first Orthodox mission
in India after St. Thomas. In the future they may develop
in to an "Indian (Greek) Orthodox Church", especially
since a situation of tension exists in the true Orthodox
Church in India (i.e. the Malankara Church).

> Regarding the schisms, one group within our church is trying to
> become an independent church under the Catholicos of East. This
> crated a very sad divisions and court cases by our brothers.
> We all Hope a day will come to end of this schisms. Please pray for
> that.
>
> Please also try to visit the following community and try to become a
> member of it.
>
> http://communities.msn.com/StGeorgeSyrianOrthodoxChurchCheppaud
>
> Be in touch with us
>
> In our Lord's Love
>
> Thomas Daniel
>


The Malankara Church of India is an integral part of
Oriental Orthodox communion. Established by St. Thomas
in India, the Church accepted the Syrian rites against
the rites imposed by Portuguese RC. The Malankara Church
ordained their first "Mar Thomas" by their own priests
laying hands of "Jathikku-Karthavyan" (leader of the
community) Thoma and named him the first "Mar Thoma".
Current succession of Malankara Church is from this
"Mar Thoma".  Malankara Church is divided in to Malankara
Jacobite and Malankara Orthodox. Malankara Orthodox following
the "Mar Thoma" lineage mantains the traditional identity
of the Church and Malankara Jacobites increasingly
adhere to traditions of West Syrians. Malankara Jacobites
have several agreements with RC and Greek Orthodox. They
also accept their sacraments (communion. marriage etc.)
as valid in some cases.

The Malankara Orthodox maintains strong ties with Coptic
and Ethiopian Churches. The Malankara Orthodox also
acknowledges the "Spritual" authority of  Oriental
Orthodox Patriarch of Anthioc while not accepting the
intrusion of Patriarch in matters of internal administration
which has caused much divisons in the past (formation of
Mar Thoma Church, Thozhiyoor Church, Independent Knanaya
Church just examples). The Church maintains that according
to the protocol signed between Anthiocian Patriarch and
Catholicos, the administrative authority of Malankara Church
is the Holy Synod of India whose head is the Catholicose and
"Mar Thoma". Malankara Jacobites on the other hands wants
the Syrian Patriarch to rule the Oriental Malankara Church
and are submitting Indian Churches of Malankara Nazranis
to Syrians.

In Christ,
T

ORIENTAL  CONSANGUINITY
A  RETROSPECTION OF INDIA IN FOURTH DIMENSION

"History  is  past  politics  and  politics  present  history"  says
John  Robert  Sealey. Every  nation  has  its  dreams, the  French
dreamed  being  universally  loved  by  all  civilized people.
Italians  dreamed  of  making  a  mark  on  history  like  a  lion
with  its claws .Germans  loved  of being  a   place  in  sun.
Americans  invincible, always  right  and  in  the  long  run
always  victorious.  Soviet stood  for  international  proletarian
emancipation. The  Portuguese  and  British  apart  from  colonizing
India dreamed  of  spiritually  enslaving  Indians  to  keep  their
hegemony  forever  intact.
An  English  journalist  attended  Sunday service  in  a  local
church  in Kerala. The  altar  was  free  from  idols  built  in
Persian  architecture of   East, priestly  robes  resembling  dress
code  of  Jewish  high  priest. He  was  shocked  when  he  realized
that  the  liturgy  was  written  and  recited in  high  tone  not
in  Malayalam  but  in   'Syriac'   a  derivative(Edessene dialect)
of   ARAMAIC  which   Jesus  Christ  himself used .He  was  filled
with  awe  to  see  a  pure  Eastern  Church  in  the  India  of
Hindus.
When  the  first  colonial   power  under  navigatourship of   Vasco
Da Gamma landed  in  Kerala  through  Atlantic  Ocean  in  1498  in
search  of  spices of  kerala, Gamma  was  shocked to  see  Churches
through  out  coast  of   Kerala. He  inquired  whether  they  are
followers of   Pope. They replied  they  have  nothing  to  do  with
Pope, they are  Eastern   Christians, the  first  Christians  of  the
world  and  many  of  them  came  from  Middle  East. Gamma
reported  this  to  their  king  and  their followed  a  great
conspiracy  between  king  and  Pope  to  enslave  Eastern
Christians  of  India  by draconian  measures .Eastern  Christians
were  specially  invited  by  rulers  of  Kerala  to  develop  trade
and  they  controlled  ,maintained  all  markets  and  all  business
including  export   in  association  with Jewish,  Syrian  merchants
who  owned  wind  jammers. The  Portuguese  Catholic  bishop of  Goa
Alexio Menzes  wanted  all  Christians  in  India  to  come  under
his  jurisdiction adopt  Roman  orthodoxy. Menezes  started a  visit
of  parishes  advocating  name of  Pope  instead of  Patriarch as
spiritual head(council of trent 1562).Portuguese  influenced  local
rulers and  the  Archdeacon, local  head of  eastern Christians  was
made to  sever  ties with  East  under  duress. They  burned all
books and  scriptures  of Eastern  Christians(Udayamperur
synod .20/6/1599 AD).The Hindu local  Cochin king supported
Portuguese and issued proclamation that any sryian Priest or Church
which abstained from synod of Catholic Portugeuse bishop for
establishing Catholic Church  in kerala ,their assets will be
confiscated,yet no Syrian priests of Angamali,earnestwhile head
quarters of  Syrian Church attended synod , local king was helpless.
Mean  while  local  population  found  Portuguese practices  morally
disgusting as  renowned  historian  Prof.Guptan  Nair
says "Portuguese  introduced  beef for  first  time  in  India  and
not  the  Eastern  Christians. "Eastern  Christians  to  whom
loyalty  is paramount  started  their  secret  resistive  movement,
the  Archdeacon  of  Eastern  Christians  sent  secret appeals  to
Patriarch of  East  to  send  any  prophet  to  ordain  bishop  for
Eastern  Christians  in  India  and  to  liberate  from  Portuguese
control  through  Eastern   merchants. It  took  at least  a  decade
for  a letter  to  reach  Patriarch  of  Antioch/East  by  sea
route. Bishop  Mor  Ahatalla  from  Syria  reached  Surat in
1652 .Mor  Ahatalla  was  arrested  by  Jesuits on  Aug.  3rd  1652.
Portuguese  took  Mor Ahatalla  to  Goa, imprisoned  him  and  was
given  choice  of  renouncing  his  Syrian  Church  accepting  Pope
or  die. Mor Ahatalla  was  condemned  a  heretic  by  INQUISITION
OF  GOA  and  died  at  stake  in  1654. The  eastern Christians
assembled  in  thousands  at  Cochin(Leaning cross event /
KOONANKURISH SATHYAM , 16-1-1653 AD) and  took  oath  no  longer to
submit  to  authority  of  Rome  and  be  loyal  to  Patriarch  of
East  only  as  their  spiritual  head. This broke  yoke  of  Roman
supremacy, Portuguese  tried  their  best by  arresting and  killing
as many  Syrian prophets  as    possible  as  masters of  sea. The
Patriarch of  Antioch  and  All  the  East again  sent  Abdel
Galeel   Mor  Gregorios, bishop of  Jerusalem and  Eldo   Mor
Bascellios, bishop of   Mosul(Iraq)  to  India.The former  reached
India  in  1665 disguised  as  Arabic  teacher and latter  at age
of  ninety  two  through  secret  forest  paths  in  1685.Both
revived and  reconstructed  completely  shattered  eastern  Syrian
Church in India(Kerala) gradually.Tipu Sultan of  Mysore attacked
Travencore in 1789AD during time of   Darmaraja  in  which  Tipu
was  defeated , but   Tipu  destoyed  many  Jacobite  churches  as  a
result   many  ancient  Jacobite  families  fled  from  north
Kerala  to  Ankamaly  side , Kottayam  merged  into  strong  dias
for  first  time   with  construction of  Seminary  there  for  all
later  troubles. Essence of   speech of   PATRIARCH .PETER-III  OF
ANTIOCH during  his apostolic  entourage to  India  in  1876 to
stem  British  subversion  against  Syrians in  India "The  extent of
your  calamity  and  tragedy  you know  much  better  than  we can
ever  know.We  went  through  your history  and we know  the
IRREPARABLE  damage done  to you  by  Portuguese. For  they  pillaged
your church ,plundered  your  antiques, burnt  your  records  and
priceless  books, leaving  you orphans  and destitutes. Thus  Papist
had taken  more  than  half of  your  people".Portuguese supplied
gold petals hidden in edible church offering to masses. Portuguese
thus  separated  many Eastern  Jacobite  Syrian  Orthodox
Christians  to form  new  separate  eastern  Syrian  Catholic church
loyal to Pope in India.Hence many Catholic and Jacobite families
still have same Patronymic (family name) especially in Ankamally
region.When  Dutch  took sea  control  they  helped  genuine  Syrian
Christians  loyal  to  East consolidate  among  new  emerging
Syrian  Catholics  loyal  to  Pope  by  letting  free  their  ships
to  bring  Syrian  prophets  from   East (Turkey, Syria, Israel and
Iraq ) to  India  as  stated  by  Danish  historian ADRIAN  V. MOINES.
Soon  British  missionaries  started  subversion  against  Syrian
Christians  in  India  by  sowing  seeds  of  reformation.
Protestant  practices  were  advocated. Fifth  Anglican Metropolitan
bishop  Daniel  Wilson  came  to  Kerala  and  presented  scheme
intended  to  bring   Syrian Christians   gradually   under
Anglican   Church(precursor of mavellikara padiyola  -
1836).Relations   grew worse  when  Rev Joseph  Peet  broke  into
Syrian  Seminary and  removed  all  books, documents  including
historic copper  plates to  British  Residency. (later condemned by
CMS of England).Syrians affirmed  supremacy of  Jacobite  Patriarch
of  Antioch and declared  not to  deviate. Some   English
missionaries  spread  propaganda  that  St.Thomas  did  not  come to
India.At  this stage  Patriarch Peter-III of  Antioch  met  Queen
Victoria and  asked  to  stop   meddling with  Syrian  Church  in
India, Queen  did  so  but  by the  time  seeds of  reformation  grew
and  a  new  British  model  independent eastern  Syrian Protestant
church(syrian Marthomite)  was  founded  separating  some  Syrians
from  original  Jacobite  Syrian Orthodox Christians in India.
(Jacobite- named  after  Jacob  Baradius ,adventurous  bishop of
Edessa  who  rejuvenated  Church during Roman arrogance)
Sent  by   St.Peter,  St.Thomas (Dydimus)  the  apostle  was  a
sculptor  came to  India in  52A.D, along   Adanes, a   merchant
of   Gondophornes(king of  India ) who  was  in  Jerusalem  in
search  of  a  skillful  architect. Gondophornes  remained  a
mythical  figure  until  Archeological  excavations  at  Taxila
enabled  to  trace  line of   Gondophornes  to   Indo-Parthian
dynasty  which   ruled area   comprising  of   Afghan, Seistan,
Punjab, Sind,  N. W. Frontier  Province  from   95B.C.  to
50A.D .     St Thomas   preached  gospel  first to  Jews  in  India
(reached  because  of  Diaspora)  and   first  converts  to
Christianity  in  India  are  Jews. St.Thomas  was  followed  by
Syrian  bishop of   Basra(Iraq)   David Episcopa   which   no
Western  historians  have  recorded  says  historian  Patriarch.
Ignatius Aphrem-I of  Antioch (1946,Homs-Syria)(bishop Vayaliparambil
Mor Gregorios ": My Jerusalem Journey").
Marco  Polo Venetian  traveller came  to  Mylapore  in  1292A.D .His
views  are "Christians  who  thither  on pilgrimages  gather  some
soil  from  place  were  saint  was  killed  and  this  they  take
to  their  countries".
That  which  strengthen  Christianity  in  Kerala( India)  was
immigration  of   Syrians  from  Mesopotamia  to    port  of
Muziris  345A.D.In   823  another  batch  from  Syria  arrived (Mor
Sabrisho) beginning  of  new Malayalam  Era  known  as  ' KOLLA
VARSHAM'  with  grant  of  royal  patronage  by  king  Ayyan  to
Mor .Sabrisho  The high caste  Hindu   predominance  can be  seen
in  Syrian  Orthodox  ceremonial  wedding  in India  with
introduction  of  'mangalsuthra'(thalikettu)  which  is  absent  in
Syrian  Churches  in   Middle East,  apart   from  exchange of
rings.This  custom   was  copied   by  all  new  Syrian  Churches
later founded  by  colonial  interference. Early   Syrian  Bishops
were  scholars  in  Arabic, Hebrew, Syriac, Sanskrit,Malayalam and
Indian  occult  sciences like astrology, palmistry  and  indigenous
medicine. Manifestly  this  FIRST  genuine  eastern  Christian
Church  in  India  was  result  of  "golden handshake"   between
Patriarchs  of   East  and  sages  of   India  in  bonafides  as
SIBLINGS  of   Great Oriental   Civilization Syrian  bishops  as
well  as Namboodird Bhramins  priest  are  addressed  as  'Thirumeni
(keeping  body  clean  along  soul)"   is  the  best  example  that
early  local  Indian  population  considered  both  religions  as
siblings.Right   from  St .Thomas  all  Syrian  prophets  reached
India  from  Basra  port (Iraq) via   Persian  Gulf  sea
route .They  were  solitaries  like  lion  or  eagle, came  empty
handed  not  with colonial  armies  yet  created  greater  impact
than  West  because  spirit  of  God  guided  them .
Colonial  western  spiritual  policies  were    quintessence  of
dishonesty ,during  ' Crusade'   Italian  sailors  stole  relics
of   Mor Sokha,  Syrian  bishop  of   Myra, Lycia (4th century A.D.
born-Turkey).  Italians  built  a  new  church  in  Bari (Italy)
with  relics  and  renamed  him  as St.Nicholas  who  later  became
famous  by  Western  marketing  as  "SANTA  CLAUSE".  But  he  was  a
man  of  East. WILLIAM  SOMERSET  MAUGHAM  accepts" Bible  is
purely  a  book  of   East  beyond  creativity and  imagery  of
West,  and  there  is  nothing  West  can  take  pride  of  in  this
wonderful book" .In  1900,  at   Los Angles   Swami.VIVEKANANDA
said  "You  all  often  forget  a  vital  fact  that man  from
Nazareth  belonged  to  ORIENT, inspite  of  your  efforts  to
portray  him  in  blue  eyes  and golden  hair" .Internationally
most  Syrians  are  those  Jews  who  accepted  Jewish   carpenter
Esa Mashiha  as " the  root  and  offspring  of  David" .On
observation  you  can  see  tombs of   Syrian prophets  throughout
Jacobite  or  Syrian  Orthodox   Churches  in  Kerala, also  names
of  Keralite  Syrian Christians  in  epitaph  of   Syrian  Cemetery
in  Jerusalem (Israel).This  Oriental  Consanguinity  has  been
acknowledged  by  Hon. Supreme  Court  of   India.The  Supreme  Court
also  recognizes  H.H. Patriarch  of Antioch  and  All  the  East
in  SYRIA  as   Supreme  Head   of   Syrian  Orthodox  Christians
in  India.The Holy  Throne  Of  Antioch  was  established  by
Patriarch.St .Peter, the  chief  Apostle  in  37AD  in Antioch
(Turkey) as  there  was  political  unrest  in  Jerusalem  after
crucification  of   Christ  in  33AD. (disciples of Christ  were
first called   'Christians ' at  Antioch, ACTS:11:26) .Same
St.Peter  then  found  another  Church in  Rome  in  67AD  later
known  as  Roman  Catholic  Church. Today  as  independent  free
thinking  gained momentum  there  are  tens  of  thousands  of
independent  new  testament church  assemblies  in  West with
groups  operating   in  India  who  often  consider  a   Syrian
Christian  as  a   non -Christian  and  will speak  gospel  also  to
them  in  airports, railway stations, hostels, hospitals  and
streets  around  the world. These  groups  believe  in  Church  more
than  that  in  God  that  may  be  the  reason.This  article has
been   written  to  eradicate   misconception  about  origin  of
Christianity  in  India  and  its misunderstood   Western
Connection  as  our  historians  have  failed  to  bring  true
facts  to  Indian  public  under  the  shadow  of   Western
drafted   Indian  History.  But  the  TRUTH   is   as   DANIEL
DEFOE   says

"Whenever  God  erects a  house  of   prayer
Devil   always  builds  a  chapel  there
And  it  will  be  found  on  examination
That  latter has a greater congregation".

From the desk of: BIBU  PHILIP  MATHEW;   B.Tech(comp).

All the divisions we have in Malankara is not in the
name of True Faith or Christ.  It is merely based on
human emotions.  There is nothing wrong if all Malankara
Christians remain united and work in India in a united
manner. In fact this is what Christ wanted when he
sent an Apostle to India. The world will not end if
we are united. Infact there will be much joy in heaven
and great peace in our families if we can unite.

If all members practise few things below, true
unity and everlasting peace can be achieved among
Malankara Nazrani community.

1) understand the true faith as it was taught
by the Coptic Orthodox Church to rest of the Christendom.
2) don't be ashamed of the Indian identity. God created
Indians just like he created Syrians.
3) follow the path of  Christ

In the newly formed country of Eritrea, when their
Church wanted to exist in Eritrea, they approached
the Coptic Patriarch. The Coptic Patriarch created
the Patriarchate of Eritrea and appointed Philipose 1
the first Patriarch of Eritrean Church. This happened
two years ago. In India the Malankara Nazarani
community have an identity, it is an Apostolic Church
founded by St. Thomas.

The division was very costly for the community, many
people left the Church because of this. Who is accountable
for all these?

In Christ
T

Greetings to all.

This notice is being sent as an invitation to the
OzInterOrthodoxUnity@yahoogroups.com forum, a free, easy-to-use
email group service based on Oriental and Eastern Orthodox
Christianity.  Please take a moment to review this message.

In accordance with the recommendations put forward by the Holy
Fathers (Heads) of the Oriental & Eastern Orthodox Churches at the
third meeting of the Joint-Commission of the Theological Dialogue
Between The Eastern & Oriental Orthodox Churches (Orthodox Center of
Ecumenical Patriarchate Geneva September 23 - 28, l990), this
discussion group hopes to bring together people living in Australia
who are of the Oriental Orthodox Tradition & people of the Eastern
Orthodox Tradition.   Discussion about each others customs, rituals,
forms of worship, prayer, hopes and dreams of reunification, latest
news of reunion efforts… etc., are encouraged.

Posts should be in a spirit of humility and love.   Disrespect to any
members will not be tolerated and can result in being removed from
the list by the List Moderator(s).   Subscribers will be warned of
messages that are inappropriate and/or not in compliance with the
list guidelines.

    To start subscribe to this group, simply send email to:
         Subscribe:  OzInterOrthodoxUnity-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

    To write the list owner for more information, send an email to:
        List owner:  OzInterOrthodoxUnity-owner@yahoogroups.com

    The URL to this page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OzInterOrthodoxUnity

      Regards,    Moderator, OzInterOrthodoxUnity

Greetings to all.

This notice is being sent as an invitation to the
OzInterOrthodoxUnity@yahoogroups.com forum, a free, easy-to-use
email group service based on Oriental and Eastern Orthodox
Christianity.  Please take a moment to review this message.

In accordance with the recommendations put forward by the Holy
Fathers (Heads) of the Oriental & Eastern Orthodox Churches at the
third meeting of the Joint-Commission of the Theological Dialogue
Between The Eastern & Oriental Orthodox Churches (Orthodox Center of
Ecumenical Patriarchate Geneva September 23 - 28, l990), this
discussion group hopes to bring together people living in Australia
who are of the Oriental Orthodox Tradition & people of the Eastern
Orthodox Tradition.   Discussion about each others customs, rituals,
forms of worship, prayer, hopes and dreams of reunification, latest
news of reunion efforts… etc., are encouraged.

Posts should be in a spirit of humility and love.   Disrespect to any
members will not be tolerated and can result in being removed from
the list by the List Moderator(s).   Subscribers will be warned of
messages that are inappropriate and/or not in compliance with the
list guidelines.

    To start subscribe to this group, simply send email to:
         Subscribe:  OzInterOrthodoxUnity-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

    To write the list owner for more information, send an email to:
        List owner:  OzInterOrthodoxUnity-owner@yahoogroups.com

    The URL to this page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OzInterOrthodoxUnity

      Regards,    Moderator, OzInterOrthodoxUnity

Dear Emil Mishriky,

Let Our Lord's blessing with you

As u assumed, we are one of the Oriental Orthodox Church. Our head is
the Patriarch Of Antioch and all the east.

There is no eastern orthodoxy in India so far.

Regarding the schisms, one group within our church is trying to
become an independent church under the Catholicos of East. This
crated a very sad divisions and court cases by our brothers.

We all Hope a day will come to end of this schisms. Please pray for
that.

Please also try to visit the following community and try to become a
member of it.

http://communities.msn.com/StGeorgeSyrianOrthodoxChurchCheppaud

Be in touch with us

In our Lord's Love

Thomas Daniel


--- In SOCM-FORUM@egroups.com, "Emil " <Emil@c...> wrote:

> Thanks for welcoming me into the discussion group.
>
> My name is Emil Mishriky and I'm a Copt. in the Coptic Orthodox
> Diocese of Melbourne, living in Australia.  I have joined this group
> to learn more about the Indian Orthodox Church (Malankara), which
> I've come to understand is a Church of the Syrian Orthodox
(Antioch),
> under H.H. Patriarch Mar Ignatious Zakka.  If this is correct, then
> am I safe in saying that the Indian Orthodox Church is an Oriental
> Orthodox Church (Non-Chalcedonian) in faith? with the Coptic
Orthodox
> of Alexandria.
> Also, in the main page, it was mentioned that there are many
schisms
> within the church.  Why is this so?
> Is there Eastern (Byzantine) Orthodoxy in India?
>
> I guess this is a small start somewhere for me...
>
> In Christ,
> Emil, reader.

Thanks for welcoming me into the discussion group.

My name is Emil Mishriky and I'm a Copt. in the Coptic Orthodox
Diocese of Melbourne, living in Australia.  I have joined this group
to learn more about the Indian Orthodox Church (Malankara), which
I've come to understand is a Church of the Syrian Orthodox (Antioch),
under H.H. Patriarch Mar Ignatious Zakka.  If this is correct, then
am I safe in saying that the Indian Orthodox Church is an Oriental
Orthodox Church (Non-Chalcedonian) in faith? with the Coptic Orthodox
of Alexandria.
Also, in the main page, it was mentioned that there are many schisms
within the church.  Why is this so?
Is there Eastern (Byzantine) Orthodoxy in India?

I guess this is a small start somewhere for me...

In Christ,
Emil, reader.