Dear Moderator,



My Name is Kochakkan Abraham John, Kochakkan House, Mulenthruthy.

Home parish is at Kandanad St.Mary Jacobite Church. Kandand.

Residing at 320 Yampa Way,Fremont, California-94539.

Thank God, Thank God, Thank God



May God bless us.

St. Ignatius Jacobite Syrian Church

(The name of MOR IGNATIUS NURRONNO)

Kaippattoor 689648

Pathanamthitta  - Kerala State



Trustee:   Mr Koshy George (Tel: 0473 350 630)

Secretary: Mr Kochoikunju



Thanks

George Kunjumon

It is time to pray for all the one who lost lives in space

shuttle. May the almighty God give comfort for the families.



Kunjumon.Dallas,Tx(Puthuppally,KTYM)

1. Full Text of the controversial letter written by

Rev.P C Yohannan Ramban (Pampady Dayara), questioning the

integrity of Yuhanon Milithios (Trichur)

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030203YohannanRambanMilithios2.htm



For more Links visit:-

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/news_section.htm

http://malankaravoice.cjb.net

Dear all

I could not open this controversial letter, Anybody can help in this regard

regards

Jaison



--- In SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Malankara Voice wrote:

>

> 1. Full Text of the controversial letter written by

> Rev.P C Yohannan Ramban (Pampady Dayara), questioning the

> integrity of Yuhanon Milithios (Trichur)

> http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030203YohannanRambanMilithios2.htm

>

> For more Links visit:-

> http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/news_section.htm

> http://malankaravoice.cjb.net

>

Today I have read an article in the Methran Kakshi forum

posted by one Issac Thomas criticizing the Syriac church for

its number of bishops. He appears to be very concerned on “The

present condition of the Patriarchate at Damascus” & the

www.sor.cua.edu web site of the Syrian Church.



I really feel pity of him.  May be he is ignorant about the number of

its followers in their Kochi, Kandanad (North & South) and Angamali

(North & South) dioceses. They have only a handful of churches in these

dioceses, not to say much about the number of people. Yet they have five

bishops to manage these three + two dioceses !!!!.  Let us forget about

the 2 bishops who shifted allegiance some years back. Yet they have

3 ‘original’ bishops. Altogether there are only 7000 people maximum and

five bishops !!!  Still they criticize the Syrian Church for its number

of bishops.



Mathews Koorilose Catholica and others always claim they have 30 lakh

followers with them. But the Malayalee Christian population altogether

comes to only 65 lakhs out of which 35 laks are different sects of Catholic

Churches. So if methran kakshi claim is correct, then there must not be any

other Christian sects in Kerala other than Catholics & Methran Kakshi.



Like Issac Thomas of Methran Kakshi forum, another thomas of that forum

appears to be too much concerned about the Assyrian, Aramean problem.

I advice him to visit devolokam and watch the fight for next catholicose

in their church.  Chengannoor Athansius against Kandanad Sevarious.  Kollam

bishop vs. Angamaly bishop.  Now Diocesan fights, Kandanad Sevarious against

Kandanad Athansius.   Old guard of Angamaly against the latest.  Milthios

against Oommen Chandy.  Bishiop Yuhanan vs. Milthios.  OH sorry, dear friend

of USA, please watch the diocese of America where you are staying.  Makarios

vs. Barnabas vs. Nicholovos !!!!  Yet u are more concerned on Assyrian-

Aramean problem.



P.B.  Feel pity of those members of Methran Kakshi forum.  News about the

HC judgment that came on Tuesday is not yet published in that forum.

Typical Malayala Manorama followers !!



T M Chacko

In a letter published in IOF forum on 31st  Jan, Prof Joseph K Alexander of

IOC faction has once again tried to establish that Cheppaud Thirumeni &

Pulikottil Thirumeni were excommunicated by the Patriarch.  As far as I know,

these excommunication stories are not at all true and I have narrated the real

position in my last posting in SOCM forum.  Now as a reply to Fr KK John,

Professor is once again trying to establish his arguments by raising

new ‘evidences’ to prove his side is correct.  The only intention behind all

these twisting of histories is to malign the position of the Anthiochean

Patriarchs.  If only the Professor could produce any details of the original

records of excommunication orders from the Patriarch, his arguments can be

accepted.  If there was any such records it would have definitely been produced

in the Royal court as evidence.  Instead what have been produced are only the

letters written by one of the main accused (Mathews Mar Athanasius).



For establishing the argument that Cheppaud Thirumeni was excommunicated,

Professor is quoting from the Royal Court judgment about a letter written by

the deposed metropolitan Mathews Mar Athanasius (who led the reformist movement

in the 19th century against the Syrian church), to Major General Callan.  Is

there any reliability for the letter produced in Royal Court by Palakunnath

Mathews Athanasius Methran, an accused himself?



It is a well known fact that Mathews Mar Athanasius had to face stiff

opposition from all sections of the Syrian Church from the day of his arrival

in Malankara as Metropolitan.  Most of the Malankara Christians doubted his

intention.  When it become public that Palakunnath Methran was ordained bishop

by producing false records before the Patriarch, many rallied behind Cheppaud

Thirumeni and declared that the later is their Metropolitan, not Palakunnath

Mathews Athanasius. So it became a necessity for Mathews Athanasius to

establish that he is the rightful Metropolitan of the Malankara Church.  Only

later did the Patriarch came to know that he was cheated by the Palakunnath

Methran.  But since there were communication difficulties in those periods, the

Malankara Church was not able to produce enough records from the Patriarchate

at once.



Exploiting this peculiar situation, Palakunnath Methran tried his maximum to

establish his Malankara Metropolitan-ship; It is in this process did he send a

letter to Major callan claiming that Cheppaud Thirumeni was excommunicated by

the Patriarch at the time of his ordination.  It is true that after the

ordination of palakunnath methran, the Cheppaud Thirumeni was relieved from the

administration of Malankara Syrian Church. But that does not mean that Cheppaud

Thirumeni was excommunicated by the Patriarch. (Appointment of Palakunnath

Methran as Malankara Metropolitan was reviewed later when the Patriarch

understood that he was being cheated.)



Except claiming that Cheppaud Thirumeni was excommunicated by the Patriarch,

Palakunnath Methran could never produce any records of said excommunication.

At the same time the Syrian bishop Mor Koorilose Bava was able to produce the

excommunication letter of Palakunnath Methran in the Royal Court and it helped

for getting a favourable judgment in favour of Syrian Christians in 1890’s.



So it must be assumed that the letter written by Mathews Athanasius was not

based on any excommunication orders of the Patriarch. (It is also to be noted

that British authorities were friends of Mathews Athanasius as he was inclined

to their faith, so definitely they would have helped him to present such a

letter as evidence in British courts.)



If there was any evidence for excommunication of Cheppaud Thirumeni, it would

have been definitely produced during the arguments in the Royal Court.  It was

only because that there was no such excommunication order, the reformist group

could not produce it in courts.  Without producing clear evidence how can

Mathews Athansius Thirumeni’s claim can be accepted?



Now to find a loophole and thus to escape from these reasonable doubts, our

Professor is blaming that the Patriarchal delegate, Yuyakkim Mor Koorilose

Bava, suppressed these important documents. (It was with Mor Koorilose Bava,

Parumala Thirumeni stayed for many years when he was a deacon; he was one of

the favorite disciples of Mor Koorilose Bava).  When the Professor was asked

for the exact date of excommunication of Cheppaud Thirumeni, he tries to

justify himself by saying “I could not come across the actual date of the

excommunication because that letter presented by Yuyakim Coorilose was declared

nacceptable and hence was suppressed by Mar Coorilose.”



I can’t understand what Professor meant by this.  Anyhow with this very

sentence, it is very clear that this professor is trying to suppress some of

the facts or don’t want to reveal much.  Actually, as mentioned earlier, there

is no such excommunication order from the Patriarch orelse it must have to be

produced in courts.  Merely mentioning a letter by the accused (Mathews

Athanasius) to prove that his opponent Cheppaud Thirumeni was excommunicated by

the Patriarch is not at all reliable or acceptable. Unfortunately many are

always misinterpreting the facts and producing it in a way suitable to them.

Likewise Pulikottil Thirumeni’s excommunication stories too are cooked-up

ones.  There is no evidence to prove that either Cheppaud Thirumeni or

Pulikottil Thirumeni was excommunicated by the then Patriarchs except some

quoting by later day writers like Paret, cherian, Chithramezhuthu, KCMM etc.;

all of them wrote these with the intention to promote their faction. It is a

fact that until now no one could produce any authentic proof except some

passing remarks by the above said authors.



If anyone is doubtful on the intimate relationship between Pulikottil thirumeni

and the Patriarch Mor Ignatius Peter IV of Antioch, I advice them to read the

biography of Pulikottil Thirumeni published in 1901 by Varghese mapillai. A

link to this book is given in my web site on Pulikottil Thirumeni,

http://www.malankarachurch.org/PULIKOTTIL/Pulikottil.htm



(It was Varghese Mappillai who started Malayala Manorama Co., but was later

taken over by his nephew KCMM through an internal power struggle.  The details

of this coup as well as of the manipulations done by KCMM, with clear cut

evidences are mentioned in the book written by Varghese Mapillai’s another

grand niece, Sara Joseph and also in the book “Vrishavriksathinte Verukal

thedi” published by Deshabhimani)



Now the reliability of the books written by Z M Paret. Was he ever an

historian? Never !!!  He was a fellow who wrote many story books and tried to

colour it to as historical books. His success was in the publishing many of

these “cooked-up” story books.  None of the historians except those interested

parties are recognizing his works.  His book is not at all reliable and can

never be used as a reference guide.  All the books he wrote were just to

establish his faction’s distorted histories.  He was very consistent in

misinterpreting as well as manipulating many facts. There are many such

historians in IOC who are even now misinterpreting the facts and thus

misleading the innocent faithful. Another fellow who was a master in

manipulations of histories was Chitramezhuthu Varghese, a close associate of

Mammen Mapillai. Like wise there are many more in IOC.  So it is better to

ignore these fellows who raise unrealistic allegations.  But sometimes it

become a real nuisance and hence needed to prove that they are wrong.  And it

takes many pages to prove other wise. As I mentioned earlier, raising

allegations is easier, but countering it needs many more space and time.



John Philip

Dear Rajan

It is a EO article, I think it may clarify some of your doubts.



http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7076.asp



Memory and Remembrance



REMEMBRANCE of the dead is human. It is very human for a sincere

relative to have a strong remembrance of a beloved person who has died.

It is not easy, or natural, for a son to forget his father if he really

had a filial love and gratitude for him, and the remembrance of his

mother is undoubtedly even more tender and reverent. But is the remembrance

of a believer sincere without invoking the grace of God? Without exercising

his faith in Jesus Christ and His ever-living Church? Without praying to

Him for the soul of his beloved, one, who is now a member of the triumphant

Church, as he prayed for him when he was a member of the Church on earth?



In the eyes of the Christian and his belief in Jesus Christ, Who is the

Head of both, there is no difference between the Church on earth and that

in Heaven. To cease praying for him, if he really prayed for him when his

beloved one was on earth, is an unnatural way of thinking and a perversion

of reason. Only by erroneous presupposition, or cynicism, will a person

force himself to apathy. It is, then, in keeping with the nature of,the

faithful and his belief, as well as in keeping with the teaching of

Jesus Christ and His Church, to pray to Almighty God for the souls of our

beloved relatives and friends.



The Church has developed this human reaction and this divine teaching and

has established, first, the teaching of the truth of the everliving soul

and its judgment and, secondly, prayers and services pertaining to the

burial of the dead and his life hereafter. It is an expression of gratitude

for a Christian believer to remember the Apostle Paul, by whose efforts and

martyrdom he receives his faith which is so dear and precious to him. To

remember him, however, without referring to Almighty God in his prayers,

the Christian believer misunderstands both the person and message of the

Apostle Paul. For a Christian, the memory of a beloved person has a value

only when he refers to God Almighty in a humble and faithful prayer;

otherwise it is the ordinary expression of an un-illuminated heart. In such

cases there is no difference between a "Christian" and an atheist. The

Christian is called on to pray constantly and to give alms in the Name of

the Lord at all times but especially when he remembers his beloved departed

persons; by doing so he will hear the angel's voice as the centurion

Cornelius heard, that, "Thy prayers and thy alms are come up for a memorial

before God." (Acts 10:4)



In our Lords Love



Thomas Daniel (Reji)

St. George Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church

Cheppaud, Alleppy Dist

dear moderator,

i was going through the photos section. i found some errors in the

writtings which i would like to point out for correction. while

publishing the photograps of our holy fathers we must not allow

errors which could be construed a dis respect towards the thirumeni.



photo of Pulikkottile Mor Dianysios.

"pulikkottul" correct the spelling

"Dianysios II his nephew" reword the statement to make the meaning clear.

hope you will make necessary corrections.

regards

Dr.George, Dubai



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From the desk of moderators.



Dr. George, thank your for pointing out our mistakes. We have already

corrected it and we apologize for the unnoticed human error. Please do

visit the other sections too and advice us with your comments.



In Our Lords Love

Forum Moderators

SOCM-FORUM

Hi All,



Much delighted to hear about the judgement...We proved

that we are right and Justice atlast...And chances are

there for all those parted churches to come back and

be part of the JSOC and Universal Syrian Orthodox

Church.



But I have a doubt



In churches were both groups are there,if the general

body elects one group to be the office bearers for one

year and the next year,the other group manages to get

the majority,will the chuch be maitained in rotation

basis under both groups.If so,what difference it has

between political elections?And we malayalees are well

known for rotating rulers.



In such case,will it be the constitution of each

church  that  comes into picture as the authority????



May be my question is a blunder,but was among the

thoughts which came to me when I heard about the

judgement.



In cases where both groups exists I suggest that both

should part ways leagally and let Malankara Church

grow..not only JSOC or IOC..let us grow seperately and

let Malankara Sabha grow as a whole..!!!We don't want

politics in any of our churches...Let us spare our

time ahead for good causes other than cases and

courts...



Regards

Alex Jojo Joseph

Glory to God



Respected and dearly beloved brothers and sisters,



I forward below message received by e-mail in Indian Orthodox forum,

which I hope, useful to you for a thinking and anticipaing a reply to

enable me to forward them.

==============================================

From: Sunil Kurian, Rutgers School of Law

Subject: Medical and Legal Ethics vs. Our Faith



Dearest IOIF members,



It has been sometime since I have written into this forum, as I have

been busy with my studies. However, this semester I am involved in a

law school class which discusses many of the ethical and legal issues

involved in the medical field. As a result, I have grappled with our

religious stance as Orthodox Christians regarding these issues and

would like to see some thoughts from the various doctors and clergy

from the forum. Most of my questions center around the Orthodox

viewpoint of birth as well as death.



1) One of the most significant legal battles in recent history

has involved the right to "life". Because the stance of Christendom

is more or less well-known on the subject of abortion, I don't care

to delve narrowly into that subject. Rather, I am more

interested in knowing the point at which our church recognizes "life"

as existing. Specifically, do we agree with the Catholic concept

of "life" existing upon conception, or is there another point at

which we recognize a fetus as being a person? In close relation, what

is the church's official stance (within the context of marriage)

concerning preventative measures of contraception, newer products

such as the "mornng after" pill, and the general rights of unborn

fetuses?



2) Another significant legal issue which has arisen in the United

States concerns so called "right to die" laws. Relevant cases,

require the courts to review the right of terminally ill or

permanently disabled patients to make a decision to end their life

with medical assistance. (ie. Dr. jack Kevorkian) I find this issue

to be very complicated, especially considering the Church's past

stance on suicide. Would our Church agree in allowing a terminally

ill patient in severe pain to have assistance in ending his own life,

or would the church hold that such acts by the patient and doctor are

sinful?



3) Lastly, I'm interested in knowing the church's views on the actual

medical definition of death. Medical professionals operate under

different definitions of death, but most commonly agree to a

definition of cardio-pulmonary death. (If their heart stops, they are

dead) However, "death" as a definition becomes blurred when

considering brain dead status. There are some comatose states

which allow the patient to have extremely limited or no brain

activity but maintain a minimal responsiveness to touch and sight.

This is best seen by cases across the US in which families fight over

the right to disconnect machines which assist such comatose patients

in breathing. Based on these medical definitions of the word "death,

does the Church view such comatose patients as still being alive?

Furthermore, would our Church agree that these life supporting

machines should remain connected, or would they allow them to be

disconnected at the family's wishes?



I think it would be a very meaningful and informative discussion to

hear the medical professionals and clergy in this forum voice their

views on these issues. There are definitely no easy answers to any

of the three topics i have raised. Our world is constantly changing

around us, and we struggle as believers to understand all of it

within the understanding of our faith. Is there a middle ground

between the medical and theological views on these topics, or is

there no hope for reconciliation? Please respond.



Sunil Kurian, Rutgers School of Law

Camden, NJ



=============================================

Raju Baby Thaluvachira, Mehsana.

According to K. Karunakaran M.P (Previous Kerala Chief Minister),

Jacobite / Orthodox faction of Malankara Syrian church is to be

separated as two churches is the only solution for the present

crises. To keep harmony, peace & brotherhood in the state, this is

the best solution.



For more details please visit www.deepika.com internet edition dated

5th February 2003

Glory to the abundance of your ineffable love! Your door is open,

Lord, and no one is entering. Your glory is revealed, but no one pays

attention. Your light shines out in the pupils of our eyes, but we

are not willing to see. Your right hand is extended, ready to give,

but there is no one there who takes from it. You entice us with all

sorts of attractions, but we ignore them. You instill fear with

terrors, which are nevertheless intermingled with mercy, but we do

not flee to you. O our God full of mercy, urge yourself to force us

to draw near to you. . . . .Remove our souls from prison for we have

imprisoned ourselves, and bring us to the true light, even though we

are unwilling. May your might put us in safe keeping. Remove, Lord,

from before our sight all the veils by which our soul's vision is

encumbered, preventing it from seeing your true light. May we stand

naked, with open face, in that light continually and without

interruption; may we continue in desire for, and delight in, its

beauty, unto eternal ages. Amen.



-- A selection from John the Elder,

THE SYRIAC FATHERS ON PRAYER AND THE SPIRITUAL LIFE,

Kalamazoo, MI: Cistercian Publications, 1987

Present Residence / Parish: Mar Ignatius Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church,

Dubai

    Home District in Kerala: Pathanamthitta

    Home City in Kerala:  Tiruvalla

    Family Name: Konkara

    Nick Name: _

    Full Name: Vinu Thomas

    Home Parish: St. George Simhasana church Tiruvalla

    Sex: Male

    Year of Birth: 1971

    Email Address: vintoms@...



--------------------------------------------------------------------

From the desk of moderators.

The above information are uploaded in our data base section

"The rights of individual parishes over

self-governance, itself very clearly affirmed in the

1995 Supreme Court verdict, have now been unmistakably

reaffirmed."



What does really mean for parishes and the Mother

Church?  Does this mean that parishes are individual

institutions and have the right to choose their

association?  Is the choice allowed one time to define

their allegiance?  If a parish disagrees with the

diocesan bishop, or even the Patriarch for that

matter, does that parish then have the right to

separate from the Mother Church and join another

faction?  Can parishes jump from faction to faction

depending on how they feel about certain decisions or

issues?  Are there any guidelines explaining this

autonomy?  Does anyone feel a pandora's box been

opened?



Just raising some doubts I have.



Dn George Mathew

Dear brother Chacko



This is a hide & seeks play  by one fanatic Indian Orthodox member.

He comes under many id and put some question and he himself answer

his own question in different id.



As you mention recently he started new discussion in one of the

Assyrian forum under "Indian Christian" and started replying his own

questions under different id. This way he try to spreads his ideas.

Now his prime concern is finding a parallel patriarch. I think IOC

should consider him too along with Vattasseril Thirumeni as saint of

Malankara



To spread his idea & mislead the Malankara Christians, he posts these

links in the Indian Orthodox forum too.



We should appreciate this person's ability to keep track so many id

at one time. I am sure he is computer addict.



Now regarding this Mr. Issac Thomas, I never so any posting from him

before in Indian Orthodox Forum, it is a new id creation to mislead

the readers with postings of one Mr. Thomas Issac who writes  in our

forum with detail reports of the High Court proceedings.



Many of our forum members are in their forum too and I think the

moderators of that forum do not entertain the reply from the Jacobite

members (After a long time I saw a defending reply posted by Mr.

Thomas Daniel from Cheppaud St. George Jacobite Church regarding the

Assyrian subject. Seems to be he has a good contacts with the

moderators of that forum).  I think this is the reason nowadays we

see many postings in this forum are clarifications of IOC postings.



So dear brother just ignore them. They are lost case.



In Christ

Aji Thomas David

1. Full text of the recent HIGH COURT JUDGEMENT on the Church conflict

(dt. 28-Jan-03)

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030201HCJudgment.htm



2. "Its better to stop filing more cases in Courts" - Ex-Chief Minister

K Karunakauran

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030205Karunakarandeepika.htm



3. 71st Dhukrono of St.Ignatius Elias III (Majanikkara Bava) on

15th - MAJANIKKARA Perunnal on 14th & 15th

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030205MajanikkaraMangalam.htm



4.   17th Dhukrono of Yakub Mor Thimothios Thirumeni on 9th-

Thrikkothamangalm Pally Perunnal from 6th-9th

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030205YakubThimothios.htm



For more Links visit:-

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/news_section.htm

http://malankaravoice.cjb.net

In the Indian Orthodox Forum, one of their member was trying to

accuse the present hierarchy of the Syrian Orthodox Church as

follows.



---------Many real Syrians are against the present hierarchy of

Damascus based Patriarch. Following is a website of the real Syrians.

http://bethsuryoyo.com/currentevents/BishopLetter/LetterByEliasMalkeHa

nna.html

http://www.f21.parsimony.net/forum37811/-------------------



As many of our members are also receiving their postings, I thought,

itis my duty to bring some light on this issue.



Hanna Hajjar who runs the forum where this message appeared, is a

known trouble maker. You are all aware perhaps of the conflict

between the Assyrians and the Arameans that has affected the SOC. The

Assyrians who are mostly in the Church of the East (Nestorian church)

have political ambitions of establishing a state for themselves in

Iraq. They claim that all ancient Christians of Mesopotamia are

Assyrian. Arameans are not willing to agree with the claim and anyone

who reads the Bible knows this. The SOC has mostly people of Aramean

descent, although under the Maphrianate of Tirgis there are people

who may claim an Assyrian ancestry. I don't think that anyone can

trace themselves to purely an Aramean or Assyrian line; so the

affiliations today are primarily political. Anyway this issue has

affected the SOC even though Assyrians are a minority. They have

created trouble for HH and all bishops of our church who have spoken

out against the unnecessary divisions these people have created.



Hanna Hajjar is one of them and so are a number of people who write

on his forum. They are also the source of the rumors on HE Mor

Clemis. Since they are opposed to all SOC bishops because of their

stand on the Assyrian issue, they will write anything that supports

their claims and are misusing this issue.



Please note that, this subject is live only in the forum run by Hanna

Hajar



Everybody seems to suspect that some investment of money was made by

HE with the knowledge of HH and bishops like Mor Yulius Cicek and the

money may have been lost. But none of those who have lost the money

have come forward and complained within any church forum or in any

civil courts.



Mor Clemis is a very simple person and devout. He strictly observes

the traditions of the church including prayer, fasting, etc. He is a

very innocent man. He had the desire to do many things for the

church. In his residence he almost always immersed in study in his

library. He is one of the few masters of Syriac living today. He is

widely known to be very close to HH having been his secretary for

several years. He had very good relations with his archdiocese and

church being the simple man he was. He is known to make decisions

only after consulting with HH and the people. If he did go in for an

investment of the money I strongly believe that he did with the

knowledge of many. Could he have been defrauded? I can see that, but

I would think so were the others involved. Since nobody has come out

we do not know what happened



In Our Lords Love

Thomas Daniel

St. George Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church

Cheppaud, Alleppy (Dist), Kerala, India

I just wanted to thank everyone in this forum for

taking a proactive role in revealing the TRUTH about

our Church/recent events and countering very

effectively, the FALSE History & propaganda

perpetrated by the Methran faction members. Day by day

their dark lies are brought out into light. Thank you

to all who have taken exceptional efforts for this

cause..



Mathew

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,



Does the Jacobite Syrian Church consider the Malankara Orthodox Church to be

heretic, schismatic, or something else? Does the MOC consider the JSC to be

heretic, schismatic, or something else? I am curious because of the level of

animosity between the two factions, make it seem like God Himself could not

reconcile the divisions. If the case is that the division is so deep, then

is God really pleased with any case or decision that comes? Is God really

present in any of our words, because ultimately, the judgement comes on all

who allow the young ones to go astray because of this fighting.

     Being born, brought up, and still living in America, the Case in India

is far from my heart. Faith is more important to me than jurisdiction and

legality. But discipline and justice come with love and hope. And in India,

there seems to be empty justice and empty discipline, with no love, no hope.

What should be unity in faith, has led to divisions for authority... So

people of the Orthodox faith, both Syrian Orthodox and Malankara Orthodox,

have become the laughing stock of the ecumenical world, and especially the

Kerala Ecumenical world. We have no validity to ever preach the Word of God.

It is an embarassment for leaders of both sides, not just one. It takes two

hands to clap.

Sometimes reading this forum (SOCM) and the other one (IOIF) regarding Sabha

news is depressing and disgusting.

Your children and their children learn to fight, to take all their problems

to court, to criticize Church fathers, to hate without prejudice, and to

slander. They have never seen love, forgiveness, humility from any group

that exists in Kerala. If our children leave the Orthodox Christian faith,

then as the Lord says, it would be better for us to have a millstone tied

around our neck, and for to be thrown into the sea.



With concern and love,

Dn. Aju Philip Mathews,

New York



CC: IOIF

     SOCM

Dear Members



You all might recall my posting in this forum some times back

(message # 671, still available in the message archive)

subject "Defectors & traitors started to get their price" and

I was referring an article "MAKE NO MISTAKE, MEMBERS OF THE HOLY

EPISCOPAL SYNOD OF MALANKARA…´published in Indian Orthodox Herald

by Rev. Kuriakose Thottupuram Corepiscopa.



They are started paying for their deeds. I hope and pray for other

metropolitans who left us should not face the same. How Lucky our

church was. I am sure it was the will of GOD.



In Christ

Aji Thomas David

Dear All,



I wish Mathews catholica is one tenth as christian as OUR

Leader Mr.Karunakran,peace will descend in our church.(This

refers to Mr.Karunakran's advice)



But it seems his heart is as hard as Pharohs heart.

No good thoughts (vivaram)will dwell on him.

But dear followers of him, even if the court verdict is in favour

of you we will not give our churches to you.



Regards



V. Thomas

Dear moderators



I saw the posting of Mr. Rajan Mathew and reply by Mr. Thomas Daniel,

regarding prayer for the dead. So I thought of sending my old

document on the subject. Though it is bit long, I hope it will give a

comprehensive idea of the subject



Faithful often confront me with the question, why do we pray for the

dead? Is it biblical? Is there any benefit in doing so? Etc. They are

not satisfied if I say, `yes, it is biblical.' They want direct

command as in the case of "baptize" or "do this in remembrance of

me," etc. Can any one answer this question in the shortest form such

as `yes' or `no'? If at all one dare so will it put an end to the

ever-staggering questions as to the correctness and authority of such

an answer? One of the many monumental truths, which the protagonists

of Protestantism deliberately neglected, is the fact that

Christianity inherited, among other things, prayer for the dead,

which would allude that it is one of the oldest practices of mankind.

One answer is a blatant `no,' we do not pray for the dead. Another

answer is a vehement `yes.' So it requires careful study. A

superficial answer would indeed create more complications than

satisfaction. I have answered both negatively and positively because

of the same reason that is, we pray for those who were Christians in

letter and in spirit. Those who believed confessed and baptized in

the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. They have become

integral part of the Church which is the body of Christ, took part in

the redeeming flesh and blood of Christ, observed the divine

statutes, kept the faith until death and departed to heavenly abode

with hope are eligible for salvation through grace of Christ.

Contd... Part 2

Dear Mr. Zacharia Varughese

C C Kurian & Co., EKM



I am forwarding herewith an SOCM mail, which is an internet forum for our

Church.



I shall be grateful if you could kindly let me know the expenses involved/

estimate for publishing the English Sunday School Books, which is included

in the message No.5 given below, from Malankara voice.  A copy of this email

is forwarded to SOCM Forum so that in future you will receive all the news

directly to you from SOCM-Forum.



With prayers

Jacob V Joshua, New Delhi

Glory to God



Respected and dearly beloved Brothers and Sisters,



We have two thousand years History. By receiving the the Great

Inspiration from our Lord God, all most all disciples were

courageously became  martyrs for the great cause of LOVE.



Thus St.Thomas came to India for saving the Indians, by loving God

and not mamon. It is believed in Kerala itself he established more

than seven churches. He might have established many churches on

his way also. (The Church of East claims that their church was

established by St. Thomas in 43 AD, it is in Africa). Now we are

dividing the great faith and church with silly reasons. Bible teaches

us,"When you stand praying if you hold anything against anyone,

forgive him so that your father in heaven may forgive you and

forgive your sins." Mark 11:25.



So if we have someone who caused bitterness, we forgive them

because the Lord tells us to forgive. We find spiritual peace and

happiness when we walk in virtues like love, joy,and peace.



No court can  give us peace and Love, only God can give the same

to us.He calls us.......



We pray for all to forgive all  past and unite in Christ for ever.



Pray for all ever & ever with love



Raju Baby Thaluvachira - Mehsana.

Dear Dn.George mathew,



Respected Deeccan feels that by the decision of the court

that churches are independent, everything will fall apart.

It will not be so.



Our churches were always independent.This verdict

will not open any Pandora box or bring in any anarchy.

This is the very system that existed all this years in Malankara

church,from the start.



Now Devalokam leadership is trying to bring everything

into their control and rule like the catholic church with

iron hand. That is not our sytem.Our churches were always independent.



Eg.We were all members of Cheriapally Kottayam once.We built

a seperate church and moved out at our convenience,100 years back.

Many families have their own church,in their own properties..

Greedy Devalokam leadership wants to bring in a centrally

controlled system.



Jacobites will respect priests and bishops but not under gun

point.We will go to church ourselves.We do not want fines

to be put on for not going to chuch or for expressing our views

in Pothuyogam.(General Bodies)



We  are always Gods children at our own will.

So not worry dear deccan,with this unwritten rules  and federal

system we loved,respected and obyed HH Patriarchs and we

will continued to do the same



Love

V.M. Thomas

1. Dhukrono of Patriarch ST.SEVERIOUS (AD.538)

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030208PatraiarchSevarios.htm



2. Clash at Kadammattom following the attack on the Jacobite Priest when

he was travelling in a Scooter

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030208KadamattomclashMangalam.htm



3. MAJANIKKARA Perunnal - flag hoisting at churches tomorrow

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/20030208MajanikkaraManorama.htm



A special request: -  Since there is only a limited bandwidth allotted to

the free web sites published in yahoo geocities, there may be problem in

accessing this site whenever there is an unusual increase in the number

of hits.  If you experience any such problem (in accessing the site), please

do try again after an hour.



For more Links visit:-

http://www.geocities.com/malankarav5/news_section.htm

http://malankaravoice.cjb.net

We do not pray for those dead who did not believe, confess or baptize

in the name of the Triune God and who led a filthy, unholy,

unrighteous and unrepentant life. For instance, suicide is ends ones

own life. Desperateness, loneliness and depression overtake such

people. Suicide is a final act of hopelessness, which is sin. We have

no right to take out our own life, for we do not belong to ourselves

but to Christ who bought us for a price which was nothing but His

life as ransom to our sins.  Only the Creator has the right to take

our lives. Ignoring this concept is contempt of the Creator and

taking upon oneself unlawful burden of guilt and sin. The reward of

sin is death and soul of the sinner who ends his or her life

virtually spoils the soul. We do not pray such of those who lost hope

or never had hope and committed suicide. Church policy is not to

conduct funeral service in such cases. However there is a strong

lobby in the ecclesiastical inner circle who feels that courtesy

should be extended at least to conduct a fair funeral for suicide

victims. I agree this proposition in part for three reasons, first,

it would greatly ameliorate the emotional overtures of the near

relatives and friends for we have no reason to take for granted that

the surviving members of the family lost hope. We have to comfort the

bereaved. Second, Even in suicide we have to consider the intention.

For example, there was certain elder of Jerusalem named Razis who

denounced Nicanor. Because of his ardent patriotism to the Jewish

religion, Nicanor sent more than five hundred solders to arrest

Razis.  The soldiers surrounded him and he could not escape. He,

being reluctant to surrender to ungodly people, turned his sword on

himself. Deeply injured and profusely bleeding he stood up gallantly

amidst enemies. He tore out his entrails, flung with both hands and

called upon the Lord of life and spirit to give them back to him and

thus he died, 2 Mac 14:37-46. This was a clear case of suicide but he

had hope in God. There are number of such occasions when enemy

aggression takes place. Third, medical reasons such as unintentional,

ignorant, mistaken notion or inability to judiciously distinguish

right and wrong are to be leniently viewed. Believers on the

contrary, are hopeful and do not worry about death. Whether such

believers live or die they belong to Christ. The believer has the

promise of eternal life and hope. We pray for them who are alive and

agile in Christ. Many people hold that we should not pray for those

who did not lead a pious life. They will be rewarded according to

their merits. True, Church positively teaches this principle. Who

except Omniscient God can apprehend the fathomless human mind? God

unlike human being looks at the heart rather than out side

appearance. Who are we, or any one for that matter, to critically

view others, or to judge others whether or not he or she accepted

Christ as personal savior at least at the eleventh hour of death? For

instance the thief at the right hand side of Jesus Christ on the

Cross repented and believed in Christ at the time of his death. He

heard Jesus saying, `you will be with me today in Paradise.' We know

it so because it is written so. We have no mind of Christ to know

what one thinks or is about to do. Implying the benefit of ignorance

we will be more prudent to refrain from evaluating others. After all

what is our measuring stick to judge others, except a pile of defiled

thoughts, blurred vision, conceit, selfishness and often targeted to

vindicate our follies. `Judge not others lest you will be judged.'

Church always upheld this norm. Thus in the absence of alternative

evidences to the contrary we presume that all believers are eligible

to receive the grace of God and we pray for.



Contd... Part 2

Dera All,



1.Declaration of  Faith of the Malankara Church



We, hereby declare before the High priesthood of Your Holiness (Patriarch of

Antioch) that from the Faith of the three Holy Synods handed over to the

Holy Church, and from commandments of your Holiness, the Head of our

religion and Faith, neither we nor our children would depart either to the

right or to the left - up to our death. And we, take this Solemn Oath,

holding Sleeba (Cross) and Evangelion (the Gospels) before God and in the

presence of your Holiness, that there would be no departing from this until

the last moment of our death.

17th Midhunam 1051 (AD.1876)

(Mulanthuruthy Padiyola)



2."For this reason we do (would) not follow any faith or teaching other than

the Orthodox faith of the Jacobite Syrian Christians, to the end, that we

may obtain salvation through the prayers of ever happy, holy, and

ever-blessed Mother of God, the redresser of all complaints and through the

prayers of all Saints.  Witness, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.Amen"

(Mavelikkara Padiyola)



Regards

V.M. Thomas

Re: Dn. George Mathew's concerns about independence of parishes



I should like to thank Mr. V. Thomas for responding to Dn. George Mathew's

concerns that were raised in response to my piece. Mr. Thomas has got it

dead right. Ours is a perfect blend of democracy and episcopacy. Both are

balanced in a beautiful manner. One cannot supercede the other and exercise

hegemonic power. On spiritual matters, we do have an episcopal edge whereas

in temporal matters, individual parishes and the people have the last say.

It should be like that. The other group wants to bring everything including

temporal matters under the episcopal control and authority. The fear of

'pandora's box' being opened is therefore clearly unfounded.



George Mathew Nalunnakkal Achan