I have not been able to find any census except for the 1910. I do have the
funeral record of Peter and his father Nicholas (who is called Michael in some
places)  I also have both Nicholas & Peter's certificate of Death.  The place of
birth always seems to be Austria.  I do know that my late husband and his father
(Theodore Sr & Jr) always said they were Slovak.  Here is the line I have:

Nicholas (Michael) 1861 Austria - 1940 USA
Peter Miklish 1892 Austria - 1939 USA
Theodore Miklish Sr 1918 USA - 1981 USA
Theodore Miklish Jr 1950 USA - 2008 USA (My late husband)

Peter also had a sister named Mary and a brother named Nicholas (according to
the 1910 census)  In that census the father Nicholas is listed as Mike.  His
funeral records and death certificate does have Nicholas.

They lived in the Forbes Road area of Greensburg and then in New Alex and
Crabtree area of Greensburg. I can't find any other census.

Here are links to my web site where I uploaded the Census and funeral records
http://www.breny.com/pics/1910Census_Miklish.jpg
http://www.breny.com/pics/petermiklish_funeralrecord.jpg
http://www.breny.com/pics/nicholasmiklish_funeralrecord.jpg

From what I know, they were Roman Catholic at least the church associated with
the cemetery where they were buried is Roman Catholic and I know my late husband
and his father were Roman Catholic.  Whether they were Greek Catholic at some
time, I don't know.  I remember my husband telling me that the name Miklish was
originally miklos (not sure how that's spelled)  Of course, I'm not sure this
may or may not be true. Just hearsay I believe


--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
>
> I am guessing that he was Greek Catholic. [Russion] was probably Rusyn.
>
> Cisarik gives a single clue for Miklic in Zemplen Megye = country and that is
in Stropkov.
>
> Somehow, we need to figure out the village name in Zemplen Megye. I know that
we can do it!
>
>
>

You mentioned that the original spelling could be Miklos. In the 1995 Slovak
Census there were listings for 1531 Miklos in 329 locations. To further confuse
things the surname Miklos has four spellings using dialect marks. There were 17
listings in 13 locations for Miklos (no dialect marks). Miklos with a ‘ over
the o had 329 listings in 85 locations. Miklos with a ‘ over the o and a v
over the s had 272 listings in 104 locations. And Miklos with a v over the s had
913 listings in 217 locations.

Because your document listed the ancestral village in Zemplen Megye and the
surname Miklic was found in Stropkov of that county, I would make that the town
of your first search.


From: bassfantastic
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 9:29 AM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-R] Re: Help with birth location


From what I know, they were Roman Catholic at least the church associated with
the cemetery where they were buried is Roman Catholic and I know my late husband
and his father were Roman Catholic. Whether they were Greek Catholic at some
time, I don't know. I remember my husband telling me that the name Miklish was
originally miklos (not sure how that's spelled) Of course, I'm not sure this may
or may not be true. Just hearsay I believe

--- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
>
> I am guessing that he was Greek Catholic. [Russion] was probably Rusyn.
>
> Cisarik gives a single clue for Miklic in Zemplen Megye = country and that is
in Stropkov.
>
> Somehow, we need to figure out the village name in Zemplen Megye. I know that
we can do it!
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In reviewing records for Krasnohorske Podhradie, I came across what I
believe may be my great-grandfather's second wife.� The record is found
at ROZNAVA,-KRASNOHORSKE PODHRADIE,� Baptisms, conversions deaths
1744-1864.� The record is on frame 354 of 670,� on the right side of the page ,
the 8th line down, date is March 2.

In the Parent's column above the name Vittek Maria, there is writing
which looks like "aratya� nem , a cross, and what appears to be udattik"
I have tried Google Translate using Latin, Slovak and Hungarian with no luck.
Can anyone decipher what is written?� It would greatly be appreciated.

Thank you

Bob Pollak



Link to page.� Sorry I forgot to include it in my original email.


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22649-2569-64?cc=1554443&wc=MM17-7\
LN:1906989890


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just wanted to say thanks for a wonderful discussion.!  This has introduced me
to a part of Slovak history I was not familiar with, and any time I can learn
something, I appreciate it.  Thanks to everyone who added to this thread!

Debbie



--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
>
> I believe you express the situation quite well, John. I was trying to express
the same when I stated "try to keep it as close to genealogical as possible."
That is far more liberal than Maura, founder of this group, practiced.  I very
much agree with you.
>
> Ron
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, hwedhlor <Hwedhlor@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > I have made no serious effort to research any sources on the
> > expulsions, primarily because I have not found that it
> > impacts my Slovak Severnyak/Severnak ancestry. My concern in
> > writing was that there might be a movement to ban discussion
> > of the expulsions from this mailing list based on
> > controversy over their rightness, wrongness, correctness,
> > etc. It is my very strong opinion that any researcher
> > seeking records of persons who were, or may have been,
> > impacted by events such as the expulsions owes it to
> > themselves to become familiar with the history of such
> > events, and with the locations and nature of records
> > detailing them. I appreciate your suggestions concerning
> > German record sources. I would not exclude all discussion of
> > politics from this forum however. While this forum is
> > definitely not an appropriate place for arguing the
> > aforesaid rightness or wrongness of the expulsions, I think
> > that some basic understanding of the various motivations, or
> > possible motivations, and points of view held by those
> > expelled versus those doing the expelling, is appropriate in
> > that such understanding can give the researcher insight as
> > to why certain records might include/exclude information the
> > researcher is seeking. The challenge for those of us
> > exchanging information on this forum is to maintain
> > objectivity while discussing events that were often
> > devastating or fatal to those experiencing them, and which
> > often fostered very strong familial and cultural prejudices.
> >
> > John Zimmerman
> > Mesa, AZ
> >
> >
> > On 12/5/2012 1:10 AM, Ron wrote:
> > >
> > > John & Peter,
> > >
> > > Neither of you has given a hint as to whether or not you
> > > have researced the German sources for information or not.
> > > If not I would certainly suggest googling for documents
> > > they have assembled and published. Quite a few of their
> > > websites are in German, but some have English language
> > > mirrors.The expellees (vertriebenen) are dominated by the
> > > Sudeten, but there are sections for the Zipser and
> > > Hauerlander and Pressburger sections, as well as Bukovina
> > > and other small areas.
> > >
> > > I ave seen some maps published on villages enumerating
> > > each house and identifying the former owner. Over the
> > > decades they have published many books, tomes and white
> > > papers on the experiences from the suffering to the
> > > individual village stories. I have no need for the detail
> > > myself, so I have not investigated it in depth.
> > >
> > > For anyone not familiar with this, I again suggest Google
> > > and key words vertiebene, also preceeded by zipser ,
> > > hauerland / hauer, and perhaps slowakei or ungarn. Also
> > > Bund der Vertriebenen, Vertreibung, Verband der
> > > Landsmannschaften, Bund der Vertriebenen. In Germany there
> > > is also the Center against Expulsion, Bund der
> > > Vertriebenen that may have information or be able to guide
> > > you on new sources. Look on their pages for a British flag
> > > or clickable (english) version. Much of their materi�l is
> > > for sale.
> > >
> > > They have been meeting in Nurenberg on Easter Monday since
> > > the early 1950's, and there should be an exhausting supply
> > > of documents there. The Vertriebenen have been a notable
> > > political power in West German politics and have carried
> > > their share of internal German controversy over the years.
> > >
> > > I am glad to see the two of you agree with me that
> > > genealogy belongs on this forum and politics elsewhere.
> > > When you find good sources of information, of course, do
> > > share.
> > >
> > > As for assimilation, in my own family I would like to
> > > determine if the southern (Lozin) side were Rusyn and
> > > assimilated since the 1800/1806 census. But that is my
> > > homework.
> > >
> > > > > Ron said "try to keep it as close to genealogical as
> > > possible. There are many controversial stories to be
> > > learned above, and this is NOT the forum to hash these out!"
> > >
> > > Have you researched any of the resources I outlined above?
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>, John Zimmerman
> > > <Hwedhlor@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Peter,
> > > >
> > > > Well said! Any events that caused people to change their
> > > economic, political or religious status, change their
> > > place of residence, or that resulted in their imprisonment
> > > or death are very significant from a genealogical point of
> > > view. Additionally the reasons for such events often
> > > impact what records we seek and where we seek them, and
> > > are therefore also of genealogical importance. Ignoring
> > > such events and their causes only handicaps our research,
> > > and discussions about them definitely belong in this forum!
> > > >
> > > > John Zimmerman
> > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone 5
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 7:52 PM, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ron said "try to keep it as close to genealogical as
> > > possible. There are
> > > > > many controversial stories to be learned above, and
> > > this is NOT the forum
> > > > > to hash these out!"
> > > > >
> > > > > This IS a genealogic forum and the Benes Decree is
> > > vital! It may be a taboo
> > > > > subject here, but it's importance for later
> > > genealogical work is very
> > > > > significant. We tend not to discuss this and almost
> > > ignoring those
> > > > > of Slovak/Rusyn/Bohemian/Moravian/German/Ukrainian and
> > > Galacian ancestry
> > > > > (hundreds of thousands) who are now fully assimilated
> > > in Hungarian ethnic
> > > > > towns and villages along the southern strip. Millions
> > > of people were
> > > > > displaced throughout the whole of Czechoslovakia
> > > because of the Benes
> > > > > decree.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2011 - the darker the green the more 'ethnic' Hungarians:
> > > > >
> > > http://www.foruminst.sk/images/album/129/2-392-33729-129-orig.jpg
> > > That is a
> > > > > significant slab of Slovakia where the ethnic border
> > > does not match the
> > > > > political one. A map of German displacement would be
> > > extremely valuable.
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand fully that political discussions are
> > > verboten, but sooner or
> > > > > later those Benes Decree lists will become (some are
> > > already) public
> > > > > domain. The ones I've seen show which families were
> > > forced to move.
> > > > > Documentary evidence is being collected as we speak
> > > showing adoption of
> > > > > Czechoslovak citizenship, travelling papers,
> > > resettlement addresses and
> > > > > other vital information. Being 2012, the parents of
> > > those who were evicted
> > > > > are passing on, so this knowledge becomes vital. Even
> > > some Slovaks were
> > > > > deported!
> > > > > Here's a memorial plaque of those families that were
> > > displaced by the Benes
> > > > > Decree:
> > > > >
> > >
http://www.foruminst.sk/en/66/visual_bilingualism/0/research_on_usage_of_hungari\
an_language_in_southern_slovakia/1/5210/deportees_memorial_plaque
> > > > > (note that previous 'face on' images of this were
> > > removed by the website to
> > > > > protect the identities of those listed)
> > > > >
> > > > > And it's not just Slovakia, but significant Hungarian,
> > > Serbian and Romanian
> > > > > displacements as well, all authorized and carried out
> > > by their respective
> > > > > post WW2 governments.
> > > > > In fact it is impossible to do later - post WW1 and
> > > WW2 genealogical work
> > > > > without mentioning (non-jewish) genocide, atrocities
> > > and other forms of
> > > > > cleansing in some of these places. Millions were
> > > displaced or killed
> > > > > including ethnic Slovaks and Rusyns - and as further
> > > academic research
> > > > > continues past the 50 year moratorium, more of this
> > > will come to light.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that we should concentrate on genealogy, but
> > > referral to the above
> > > > > events should not be dismissed out of hand as a cause
> > > for death and
> > > > > displacement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter M.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 December 2012 10:49, Ron <amiak27@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > try to keep it as close to genealogical as possible.
> > > There are many
> > > > > > controversial stories to be learned above, and this
> > > is NOT the forum to
> > > > > > hash these out!
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

The block where the words you want translated is where the parents names are
given, as you stated. In this case no father is listed. The only word I got a
translation for is “nem”, not. A cross is usually a sign of a death.

From: Robert Pollak
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 10:58 AM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-R] Need help with translation


In reviewing records for Krasnohorske Podhradie, I came across what I
believe may be my great-grandfather's second wife.  The record is found
at ROZNAVA,-KRASNOHORSKE PODHRADIE,  Baptisms, conversions deaths
1744-1864.  The record is on frame 354 of 670,  on the right side of the page ,
the 8th line down, date is March 2.

In the Parent's column above the name Vittek Maria, there is writing
which looks like "aratya  nem , a cross, and what appears to be udattik"
I have tried Google Translate using Latin, Slovak and Hungarian with no luck.
Can anyone decipher what is written?  It would greatly be appreciated.

Thank you

Bob Pollak

Link to page.  Sorry I forgot to include it in my original email.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22649-2569-64?cc=1554443&wc=MM17-7\
LN:1906989890

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob,
It simply says 'father not known [disclosed]' .  What you thought was a cross is
the letter "t" of the word tudattak, which is the one meaning disclosed or
known.

Curt B.

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
>
> The block where the words you want translated is where the parents names are
given, as you stated. In this case no father is listed. The only word I got a
translation for is “nem”, not. A cross is usually a sign of a death.
>
> From: Robert Pollak
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 10:58 AM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-R] Need help with translation
>
>
> In reviewing records for Krasnohorske Podhradie, I came across what I
> believe may be my great-grandfather's second wife.  The record is found
> at ROZNAVA,-KRASNOHORSKE PODHRADIE,  Baptisms, conversions deaths
> 1744-1864.  The record is on frame 354 of 670,  on the right side of the page
, the 8th line down, date is March 2.
>
> In the Parent's column above the name Vittek Maria, there is writing
> which looks like "aratya  nem , a cross, and what appears to be udattik"
> I have tried Google Translate using Latin, Slovak and Hungarian with no luck.
> Can anyone decipher what is written?  It would greatly be appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> Bob Pollak
>
> Link to page.  Sorry I forgot to include it in my original email.
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22649-2569-64?cc=1554443&wc=MM17-7\
LN:1906989890
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi

 Like Nick, I am interested in what you mean. It could be taken two different
ways.

Larry



----- Original Message -----


From: "Nick" <nickh@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:50:30 PM
Subject: [S-R] Holocaust


>
LLeporis said?

"This is common knowledge the Slovaks in disgust of the holocaust
(real or not)"


>what do you mean real or not?

Nick



Regards
Nick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Bob:

Are you able to post the page of the records? I have searched through the
records before, and compiled a lot of information, but unfortunately, my old
  computer crashed. Moral to the story: back up all genealogical records.
So  I would be happy to be a second set of eyes to help decypher the writing.


My great, great, great grandfather JAN HRONEC was born in   ROZNAVA.  For
some reason, your surname POLLAK rings a bell but I cannot  place my finger
at the moment.  My HRONEC clan had lived in villages of  BRZOTIN and CUCMA
among others. The surnames below are in my direct  lineage

Please also feel to write me directly at _David1Law@..._
(mailto:David1Law@...) .

Best regards,

David

Researching the village of ROZNAVA, BRZOTIN, and CUCMA in GEMER County  //
the villages of DOMANOVCE, HRISOVCE, KIS SZALOK, KALAVA, KOLONOCZ, KLUKNAVA,
  MLYNICA, RICHNAVA, SPISSKE VLACHY, STARY SMOKOVEC, SLATVINA, in SPIS
County //  the villages of DOLINA, OVCIE, SIROKE, AND VITAZ in SARIS County the
following  surnames: BALOGA (BALOG, BALOGH), BELAK, BUXAR (BUKSAR) CSUJ
(CUJ), HAMRAK,  HARBALY, HARENCSAR, HRONEC, HVIZDOS, JURASKO, KAFFAN, KISSEL,
KOVALCIK,  KREDATUS, ONDERCIN, RUSZBACZKY, TAKACS, TOMASOV, and variant
spellings thereof.

Also KUBIT, MOSKAL, ZAJDEL, WALASZCZYK, KOSIBA in BIALOBRZEGI, SUCHODOL,
GLOWIENKA, and KROSNO, POLAND.





In a message dated 12/5/2012 9:26:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rjp4053@... writes:




In reviewing records for Krasnohorske Podhradie, I came across what I
believe may be my great-grandfather's second wife.  The record is found  at
ROZNAVA,-KRASNOHORSKE PODHRADIE,  Baptisms, conversions deaths  1744-1864.  The
record is on frame 354 of 670,  on the right side of  the page , the 8th
line down, date is March 2.

In the Parent's column  above the name Vittek Maria, there is writing which
looks like "aratya   nem , a cross, and what appears to be udattik"
I have tried Google  Translate using Latin, Slovak and Hungarian with no
luck.
Can anyone  decipher what is written?  It would greatly be appreciated.

Thank  you

Bob Pollak

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am wondering what the citizenship status of my Grandfather would have been
during WW II when Slovakia was technically an enemy country. Since he immigrated
in 1905 from Presov, then the Kingdom of Hungary of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
and was ethnically Slovak and never became a US citizen what would have been his
stutus living in NYC.  I vaugely remember someone taking him to some government
building in NYC for registration but as what? Could Switzerland or some neutral
power have represented the interests of former Slovaks during the war?
Art
North Bend WA

Glad you were able to locate the great grandfather's birth record.  The
handwriting there was pretty difficult to make out. Was the birth date close to
what you had?

You say you looking for information on your father's family.  What direction are
you heading with your research?

If searching backwards in Slovakia, keep searching through the birth records
before and after your Josef Rubaczky to find siblings.  Then start looking for
the parents' marriage beginning about 9 months prior to the birth of the first
child.  If you are lucky, the marriage record will list the ages and parents of
the bride and groom and that will take you back another generation.

If you are working forward to the U.S. records, what have you found so far in
terms of census, naturalization and ship records? What exactly are you looking
for in U.S. records?


--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Judy" <hogelj@...> wrote:
>
> Joanne,
>
> How certain are you of the dates you gave?
>
> There are no Greek Catholic records for Zborov or Dubovica, so would have to
have been recorded in Roman Catholic records.
>
> But in the R. Catholic-Bardejov-Zborov records there is no Josef Rubacky
recorded as born 19 Jul 1868, or in all of 1868.  In R.
Catholic-Sabinov-Dubavica records there is no Anna Superka recorded as born 26
Jul 1880, or in all of 1880.
>
> Using the name search for Josef Rubacky, there are hits for Zborov, some even
with mother's name Maria Matusovits, but none for your date.  I think the
closest date was in 1872.
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
> >
> > >>> My Great-Grandfather Josef Rubacky was born on 19 Jul 1868 in
Zborov,Saris,Slovakia was the son of Josef Rubaczky and Maria Matusovits. <<<
> >
> > Have you researched the following ONLINE RC church records?
> >
> > Inv. c. 1532
> > Krsty 1861-1872
> >
> >
> > >>> My Great-Grandmother Anna Superka was born on 26 July 1880 in Dubovica,
Slovakia was the daughter of John Superka and Anna Mortonak. <<<
> >
> > Inv. c. 237
> > Krsty 1853-1879
> > Man�elstv� 1853-1886
> > Krsty 1879-1886
> >
>

Miklos is for Nicholas, relating to Mikulas or St Nicklaus and Santa Claus.
For years I thought my middle name translated to Michael.
There are quite a few Mikulas in Slovakia and Austria at the time.



On 6 December 2012 04:29, bassfantastic <breny@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> From what I know, they were Roman Catholic at least the church associated
> with the cemetery where they were buried is Roman Catholic and I know my
> late husband and his father were Roman Catholic. Whether they were Greek
> Catholic at some time, I don't know. I remember my husband telling me that
> the name Miklish was originally miklos (not sure how that's spelled) Of
> course, I'm not sure this may or may not be true. Just hearsay I believe
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am guessing that he was Greek Catholic. [Russion] was probably Rusyn.
> >
> > Cisarik gives a single clue for Miklic in Zemplen Megye = country and
> that is in Stropkov.
> >
> > Somehow, we need to figure out the village name in Zemplen Megye. I know
> that we can do it!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Art wisely asked the same question on Slovak World, where Prof. Votruba provided
one of his usual thorough answers. Since S-W and S-R overlap a bit but do not
address the same audiences, I am repeating that answer here:
* * * * *
You probably have your sources, Art, on where he was taken to register what. The
following is merely an answer to the question below, what were people like your
grandfather seen as by the U.S. during WW II:

> the Austro-Hungarian Empire and was ethnically Slovak and
> never became a US citizen what would have been his stutus
> living in NYC.

The U.S. recognized the emigre "Czechoslovak government in exile" (based in
London) as the only representative of all of the territory and citizens of
pre-WW II Czechoslovakia and sent an ambassador to that entity in early 1941
(the same person served as the U.S. ambassador to a number of other "governments
in exile" in London during WW II).

A legal consequence of that was than anyone in the position of your grandfather
was seen as a citizen of Czechoslovakia by Washington during that time.

> Could Switzerland or some neutral power have represented
> the interests of former Slovaks during the war?

No. Neutral countries did not maintain interest sections in belligerent
countries on behalf of the citizens of their enemies, although even that would
have been formally impossible between Bratislava and Washington during WW II.
Slovakia's President Jozef Tiso signed a declaration of war on the U.S. in
December 1941. But Washington took no formal notice of the declaration, it had
recognized the "Czechoslovak government in exile" much earlier (see above) and,
as a result, the Unites States did not consider Slovakia to be a political
entity during WW II.


Martin

* * ** * *
Slovak World is for All things Slovak, while Slovak Roots restricts itself to
genealogy. S-W is ideal for a thorough discussion of the Benes decrees,
politics, history in depth, and even cheese wars.

Ron


--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Art" <KD7EER@...> wrote:
>
> I am wondering what the citizenship status of my Grandfather would have been
during WW II when Slovakia was technically an enemy country. Since he immigrated
in 1905 from Presov, then the Kingdom of Hungary of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
and was ethnically Slovak and never became a US citizen what would have been his
stutus living in NYC.  I vaugely remember someone taking him to some government
building in NYC for registration but as what? Could Switzerland or some neutral
power have represented the interests of former Slovaks during the war?
> Art
> North Bend WA
>

Ladi,

All I can remember is that the extremely bad treatment of Czechs after the
invasion was due to the evictions of Sudetenland Germans right after the
formation of the Czech Republik.  I tried googling but had no info.


Thanks for calling me out on this.

Z Bohom,

Vilo



________________________________
  From: "lacoros@..." <lacoros@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member


 
Can you give some sources for the statement 2? I have never heard about it.

Thanks

Ladislav
-----Original Message-----
From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 16:43:53
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member

1. 1929 was a typo

2. "I do know that Czechoslovakia evicted Germans from Sudetenland but this was
long before WWII"

________________________________
From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [S-R] New Member


 
Hallo Vilo,

I think you have some typos in your e-mail.

1. The first Slovak Republic was founded in 1939 and not 1929.

2. The expulsion of Germans form Czechoslovakia was after the WWII in 1945. You
can read about it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II#Czechoslova\
kia

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia\
_during_and_after_World_War_II

I am not sure about the „Point of view“ of this articles, the point of view
form German writers is definitively diffrent than of Czech writers.

There were expulsed also Germans from Slovakia, mostly is talking only about
germans frome Sudetenland. It is easy to understand why – in Sudetenland there
were about 3.000.000 Germans, in whole Slovakia about 150.000.

Ladislav

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of William C. Wormuth
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:10 AM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member

Cynthia,

"not trying to be a hater but probably her parents were thrown back to
Germany after WWII. This is common knowledge the Slovaks in disgust of
the holocaust (real or not) evicted the German colonists out of the
country."

In 1929, the first Slovak Republic was founded.  The first Prime Minister was
Monsignor Jozef Tiso:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_Republic_%281939%E2%80%931945%29

I have never heard of German colonists arriving in Slovakia nor of evictions of
"German colonists" during WWII. There were historic towns colonized by Germans,
Hungarian and Rusin Towns.

From where did you get information on this??

I do know that Czechoslovakia evicted Germans from Sudetenland but this was long
before WWII.

I do know many people who made errors in immigration records because Records in
Ellis Island listed the immigrants arriving before the fall of the Austria
Hungary monarchy, were listed as German, (Austrian), or Hungarian.  Our Slovak
ancestors were often , (at least), bi-lingual, (Slovak, Hungarian or German),
and very often tri-lingual, (All three).

In your message following this, are you referring to the Reformation and
Counter-Reformation??

I do not know if you have contacted people there but  here is the site for the
Lutheran University in Bratislava:

http://wmltblog.org/2012/11/slovakia-the-evangelical-lutheran-church-of-the-augs\
burg-confession-2/

Z Bohom,

Vilo

________________________________
From: leporis1 <leporis1@... <mailto:leporis1%40yahoo.com> >
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member

Hi,

not trying to be a hater but probably her parents were thrown back to Germany
after WWII. This is common knowledge the Slovaks in disgust of the holocaust
(real or not) evicted the German colonist out of the country. Not sure when
Nimitz brought to Texas to join other German farmers but very often I see
Germans that claim ancestry in SR and CZ Rep. here in Texas. Germans colonist
were always subject to suspicion. Since they were sent back to a particular
village in Germany I would look there as well. Bingen, Germany.

LLeporis

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, Cynthia, I'm interested as well. How does one get kicked out of a
country? :) Do tell!
>
> Welcome!
> Debbie
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ,
htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Cynthia and welcome.
> > When you get a chance, you must tell your story about them getting kicked
> > out! It wasn't the Benes Decree was it?
> >
> > Peter M.
> >
> >
> > On 30 November 2012 01:14, Cynthia Heyman <cynthia@> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, I just joined the group and thought I'd introduce myself. My name
is
> > > Cynthia Heyman, currently living in Salt Lake City, Utah.
> > >
> > > My Mother was born in Limbach, Slovakia, in 1939. I have her Mother's and
> > > Grandmother's names, but not much more than that, and I'm interested in
> > > finding out more about our ancestry. They were kicked out of Slovakia in
> > > the early 1940s and returned to live in Bingen, Germany, where my mom grew
> > > up. She moved to the USA in the 1960s.
> > >
> > > My Father is Danish and I'm also enjoying researching his ancestry as
well.
> > >
> > > Nice to 'meet' everyone.
> > > Cynthia
> > >
> > > -----------------------
> > > http://tiptail.com
> > > http://www.facebook.com/cynthiablue
> > > http://www.youtube.com/ColliesNFarmdogs
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slovaklutheranhistory.html



________________________________
  From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] ordained ministers and their genealogy


 
Well I can safely state that the Ozman (Ottoman) advance, Rakozi, Thokoly
and Thurzo, all promoted Evangelical over Catholic. The Ottomans were
anti-Catholic and strongly promoted Lutheranism. The effect of this was
that churches once Catholic - turned Lutheran overnight, then back to
Catholic, also overnight in Hapsburg controlled areas.
I too am looking for Lutheran records, particularly of the Galanta district
which reverted back to Catholicism. I do have Balskovics Jozsef's "Az
Ujvari Ejalet Torok Adoosszeirasai" - Pozsony 1993 Erdem ('The Ujvari
Eyalet Turkish Tax Collections' ~ Hungarian only) which looks at the
Ottoman defters for Ersekujvar and (partially) Estergom vyalets, detailing
names and places throughout the region. The issue he found was that the
Ottomans transcribed names into Arabic script phonetically and so not
directly translatable back to Magyar. Consequently he spent a decade or so
sounding out names from the defters in Arabic and tried to find Magyar and
Slav cognomens. He assembled around 20,000 names with cognomen locations of
the period.
This is also complicated by the fact that when the tax collectors came,
many hid in forests to avoid the defters, so we are not talking about 100%
participation.
Genealogically, the records mentions relationships - eg father to son,
brother etc, but as the tax collectors had little idea of the naming
conventions, a lot of confusion arose as they confused work names, places
and vezetek names (surnames). Many of these names stuck. The nobility and
possibly some clergy evacuated into safehaven Hapsberg controlled towns.
Another aspect to consider is that none of this is on a database of any
sort.
Very few academic studies have been made using defters as a historic
resource. Contact Gabor Agoston for further information on this (Georgetown
University - I'll forward his email if you are interested).

So prior to the mid 1700's many church records were 'lost' - but I am
hopeful that they are around somewhere, maybe in Lutheran archives. I am
furious that records after the Turks were thrown out, between 1700 and 1770
have also 'disappeared'. Why?

Peter M.

On 5 December 2012 07:33, leporis1 <leporis1@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Pan Mojher,
> Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this 'described document'
> down. State Archives?
>
> ....v. Kцnig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u. Wappenbrief (im
> Vereine mit dem Geschlechte Leporisz), welcher 1711 im Trentschiner Ctte
> publicirt wurde.
>
> LLeporis
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical
> Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there
> since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be
> able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
> > http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the
> website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.
> >
> > From: leporis1
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology
> >
> >
> > I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is
> "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is
> well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611
> (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko /
> Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the
> question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical
> (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the
> Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest
> is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis
> (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot
> obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and
> possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents
> I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical
> documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry
> which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be
> so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous
> in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK
> world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is
> probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved.
> What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his
> brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking
> him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt
> and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly
> destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to
> mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know
> exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the
> Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I
> still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd
> appreciate any feed back no matter what.
> >
> > LLeporis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AZ Atya = Not the Father   On the next page at the bottom are 2 more
illegitimate children listed

Z Bohom,

Vilo



________________________________
  From: Robert Pollak <rjp4053@...>
To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: [S-R] Need help with translation


 
In reviewing records for Krasnohorske Podhradie, I came across what I
believe may be my great-grandfather's second wife.  The record is found
at ROZNAVA,-KRASNOHORSKE PODHRADIE,  Baptisms, conversions deaths
1744-1864.  The record is on frame 354 of 670,  on the right side of the page
, the 8th line down, date is March 2.

In the Parent's column above the name Vittek Maria, there is writing
which looks like "aratya  nem , a cross, and what appears to be udattik"
I have tried Google Translate using Latin, Slovak and Hungarian with no luck.
Can anyone decipher what is written?  It would greatly be appreciated.

Thank you

Bob Pollak

Link to page.  Sorry I forgot to include it in my original email.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22649-2569-64?cc=1554443&wc=MM17-7\
LN:1906989890

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vilo,

Only to keep history straight on this forum and not put out partial stories, I
must once again disagree with you.  As far as I know from conventional history -
and I have read English and German history - there were no Sudeten expulsions
after WW I when CzechoSlovakia was established.

There WERE hard feelings due to Germans losing their association with the
Austrian rulers, and the dominance of Czechs in place of the dominance of
Austrian/Germans. This was complicated by the usual quagmire of minority rights,
self-rule or autonomy,languages, etc. would be in CzechoSlovakia after WW I.
Neither Germans nor Hungarians were happy with Czech rule or rules, but that is
an internal political quagmire we should not get into here. Anyone who wishes to
explore THAT topic should do so on Slovak World, please!

So there was dissatisfaction and dissent between the wars, but no expulsions
until 1945 - 1947. That is conventional history as I know it.

If you disagree with what I wrote above, I suggest we take it to Slovak World.
We both respect Martin Votruba's scholarship, and that would set this to rest.
Ron



--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
>
> Ladi,
>
> All I can remember is that the extremely bad treatment of Czechs after the
invasion was due to the evictions of Sudetenland Germans right after the
formation of the Czech Republik.  I tried googling but had no info.
>
>
> Thanks for calling me out on this.
>
> Z Bohom,
>
> Vilo
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "lacoros@..." <lacoros@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 2:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member
>
>
>  
> Can you give some sources for the statement 2? I have never heard about it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ladislav
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
> Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 16:43:53
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
> Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member
>
> 1. 1929 was a typo
>
> 2. "I do know that Czechoslovakia evicted Germans from Sudetenland but this
was long before WWII"
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:55 PM
> Subject: RE: [S-R] New Member
>
>
>  
> Hallo Vilo,
>
> I think you have some typos in your e-mail.
>
> 1. The first Slovak Republic was founded in 1939 and not 1929.
>
> 2. The expulsion of Germans form Czechoslovakia was after the WWII in 1945.
You can read about it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II#Czechoslova\
kia
>
> And
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia\
_during_and_after_World_War_II
>
> I am not sure about the „Point of view“ of this articles, the point of
view form German writers is definitively diffrent than of Czech writers.
>
> There were expulsed also Germans from Slovakia, mostly is talking only about
germans frome Sudetenland. It is easy to understand why �" in Sudetenland there
were about 3.000.000 Germans, in whole Slovakia about 150.000.
>
> Ladislav
>
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of William C. Wormuth
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:10 AM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member
>
> Cynthia,
>
> "not trying to be a hater but probably her parents were thrown back to
> Germany after WWII. This is common knowledge the Slovaks in disgust of
> the holocaust (real or not) evicted the German colonists out of the
> country."
>
> In 1929, the first Slovak Republic was founded.  The first Prime Minister was
Monsignor Jozef Tiso:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_Republic_%281939%E2%80%931945%29
>
> I have never heard of German colonists arriving in Slovakia nor of evictions
of "German colonists" during WWII. There were historic towns colonized by
Germans, Hungarian and Rusin Towns.
>
> From where did you get information on this??
>
> I do know that Czechoslovakia evicted Germans from Sudetenland but this was
long before WWII.
>
> I do know many people who made errors in immigration records because Records
in Ellis Island listed the immigrants arriving before the fall of the Austria
Hungary monarchy, were listed as German, (Austrian), or Hungarian.  Our Slovak
ancestors were often , (at least), bi-lingual, (Slovak, Hungarian or German),
and very often tri-lingual, (All three).
>
> In your message following this, are you referring to the Reformation and
Counter-Reformation??
>
> I do not know if you have contacted people there but  here is the site for the
Lutheran University in Bratislava:
>
>
http://wmltblog.org/2012/11/slovakia-the-evangelical-lutheran-church-of-the-augs\
burg-confession-2/
>
> Z Bohom,
>
> Vilo
>
> ________________________________
> From: leporis1 <leporis1@... <mailto:leporis1%40yahoo.com> >
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member
>
> Hi,
>
> not trying to be a hater but probably her parents were thrown back to Germany
after WWII. This is common knowledge the Slovaks in disgust of the holocaust
(real or not) evicted the German colonist out of the country. Not sure when
Nimitz brought to Texas to join other German farmers but very often I see
Germans that claim ancestry in SR and CZ Rep. here in Texas. Germans colonist
were always subject to suspicion. Since they were sent back to a particular
village in Germany I would look there as well. Bingen, Germany.
>
> LLeporis
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, Cynthia, I'm interested as well. How does one get kicked out of a
country? :) Do tell!
> >
> > Welcome!
> > Debbie
> >
> >
> > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Cynthia and welcome.
> > > When you get a chance, you must tell your story about them getting kicked
> > > out! It wasn't the Benes Decree was it?
> > >
> > > Peter M.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 30 November 2012 01:14, Cynthia Heyman <cynthia@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello, I just joined the group and thought I'd introduce myself. My name
is
> > > > Cynthia Heyman, currently living in Salt Lake City, Utah.
> > > >
> > > > My Mother was born in Limbach, Slovakia, in 1939. I have her Mother's
and
> > > > Grandmother's names, but not much more than that, and I'm interested in
> > > > finding out more about our ancestry. They were kicked out of Slovakia in
> > > > the early 1940s and returned to live in Bingen, Germany, where my mom
grew
> > > > up. She moved to the USA in the 1960s.
> > > >
> > > > My Father is Danish and I'm also enjoying researching his ancestry as
well.
> > > >
> > > > Nice to 'meet' everyone.
> > > > Cynthia
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > http://tiptail.com
> > > > http://www.facebook.com/cynthiablue
> > > > http://www.youtube.com/ColliesNFarmdogs
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Quite possibly your Grandfather was taken to file his Alien Registration
Papers...these records can be obtained from The US Archives.

http://genealogy.about.com/od/immigration/p/alien_cards.htm

Dennis

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Art" <KD7EER@...> wrote:
>
> I am wondering what the citizenship status of my Grandfather would have been
during WW II when Slovakia was technically an enemy country. Since he immigrated
in 1905 from Presov, then the Kingdom of Hungary of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
and was ethnically Slovak and never became a US citizen what would have been his
stutus living in NYC.  I vaugely remember someone taking him to some government
building in NYC for registration but as what? Could Switzerland or some neutral
power have represented the interests of former Slovaks during the war?
> Art
> North Bend WA
>

Bill did a marvelous job in keeping this site going after we lost contact with
Maura Petzolt (her absence has also been felt on the SHAMROCK list she started
on Rootsweb).

Ron and I have taken a more active roll over the past year.  Now Bill has moved
on to other interests and is no longer a moderator for this list.

We are looking for one more person to step up and assist us in moderating this
site.

Please privately e-mail Ron or me if you are interested.

Thank you.

Dr. "Q"

>>> Anyone who wishes to explore THAT topic should do so on Slovak World,
please! <<<

Acquiring new memberships at Slovak World is seemingly impossible. Greg Kopchak
is not responding.

Could someone please look at the following record on Family Search:
Slovakia Church Records, Roman Catholic, Sabinov, Narsany, page 141.
I am particularly interested in the record on the right side, line 14. �23 March
1837, JOANNES.
What are the column headings for columns 2 and 7? �And can you tell me the
entries for those columns for the record I am interested in?

Thank you.

Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy,

I looked at it and I think :  in the second column is the name of the priest
performing the baptism, The baptisan, and I believe It says : Michael Jentsik,
Caplan
The seventh column is the place the Parents of the baptized Joannes lived and it
was : dto = ditto, meaning the same entry as above  :  Osztropatak, today
Ostrovany

Christine






   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Nancy Gibbs
   To: Slovak Roots Group
   Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 12:52 PM
   Subject: [S-R] Record Headings



   Could someone please look at the following record on Family Search:
   Slovakia Church Records, Roman Catholic, Sabinov, Narsany, page 141.
   I am particularly interested in the record on the right side, line 14.  23
March 1837, JOANNES.
   What are the column headings for columns 2 and 7?  And can you tell me the
entries for those columns for the record I am interested in?

   Thank you.

   Nancy

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy,
     http://homepages.bmi.net/~latin/ This link will give you the meaning of the
column headings in Latin, Hungarian and Slovak.
     I read line 2 for the baptismal priest as Jeutsik.
     Line 7 is the residence. In your case the name is not fully spelled out. It
appears to be Osztropataka, present day Ostrovany.
     http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg This is a map of the
Hungarian County of Saros in 1910. In the blue area in the far upper left is the
present day Sabinov, it is called Kisszeben. Just below the word Kisszeben is
Nyarsardo, your Narsany. To the right and down is the word Nagysaros. Straight
above the N is Oszropatak, present day Ostrovany.

From: Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 9:52 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Record Headings


Could someone please look at the following record on Family Search:
Slovakia Church Records, Roman Catholic, Sabinov, Narsany, page 141.
I am particularly interested in the record on the right side, line 14.  23 March
1837, JOANNES.
What are the column headings for columns 2 and 7?  And can you tell me the
entries for those columns for the record I am interested in?

Thank you.

Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3.  I have
struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no
avail.  I have the marriage record and other church records which show her
maiden name as Janossy.  In both files it looks like the second word is
something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file.  Any help
appreciated.  Bill

Hello Bill,
Those images are pretty well buried in your upload. If you got these
online, then it is much easier for us if you copy and paste the link in a
reply to this. Otherwise, you can state the region/district/town and type
of record (eg birth) and we can follow that to get a more comprehensive
view where we can compare the writing style for each entry. Also latin
entries were interrupted with localized language around 1849, so that would
help us as well.

I think that both sets of words are the same (or almost), but written by a
different hand.
The entry is in latin, thought the 2 words after Maria don't appear to be.
Image 2: looks like szra()ci is Szta()c()  <--SZ is Hungarian for S
Image 3: looks like starefo is Statcs()

Image 2: Kicma (pronounced Kitchma)
Image 3: K(ol)csma - can be Kitcsma  <cs is pronounced Ch as in church.

Now considering that the little upstroke before the c in image 2 for
Sztatcs could be a t and so there is a phonetic similarity with image 3's
Statcs.
The same can be said for the other word.
I think that both words sounded foreign to the scribe who wrote it the best
he could. I don't think it is Hungarian.
If you are sure that it is not her maiden name - or if he didn't remarry,
then the likelyhood is that it is a placename (from this village), an
alias, or even a job description.

Peter M.
On 12 December 2012 09:32, William <wsmorey@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3. I have
> struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no
> avail. I have the marriage record and other church records which show her
> maiden name as Janossy. In both files it looks like the second word is
> something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file. Any
> help appreciated. Bill
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On the other hand the K word in image 2 looks peculiarly like krčma - which
in Hungarian is Kocsma - which means hotel/pub.
On that basis, the first word is slavic.

On 12 December 2012 11:37, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Bill,
> Those images are pretty well buried in your upload. If you got these
> online, then it is much easier for us if you copy and paste the link in a
> reply to this. Otherwise, you can state the region/district/town and type
> of record (eg birth) and we can follow that to get a more comprehensive
> view where we can compare the writing style for each entry. Also latin
> entries were interrupted with localized language around 1849, so that would
> help us as well.
>
> I think that both sets of words are the same (or almost), but written by a
> different hand.
> The entry is in latin, thought the 2 words after Maria don't appear to be.
> Image 2: looks like szra()ci is Szta()c()  <--SZ is Hungarian for S
> Image 3: looks like starefo is Statcs()
>
> Image 2: Kicma (pronounced Kitchma)
> Image 3: K(ol)csma - can be Kitcsma  <cs is pronounced Ch as in church.
>
> Now considering that the little upstroke before the c in image 2 for
> Sztatcs could be a t and so there is a phonetic similarity with image 3's
> Statcs.
> The same can be said for the other word.
> I think that both words sounded foreign to the scribe who wrote it the
> best he could. I don't think it is Hungarian.
> If you are sure that it is not her maiden name - or if he didn't remarry,
> then the likelyhood is that it is a placename (from this village), an
> alias, or even a job description.
>
> Peter M.
> On 12 December 2012 09:32, William <wsmorey@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3. I have
>> struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no
>> avail. I have the marriage record and other church records which show her
>> maiden name as Janossy. In both files it looks like the second word is
>> something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file. Any
>> help appreciated. Bill
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

krčma means tavern or Inn. krčmar is an Inn Keeper, krčmarka, usually a
waitress or female bar tender.


Z Bohom,

Vilo


________________________________
  From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation Help


 
On the other hand the K word in image 2 looks peculiarly like krčma - which
in Hungarian is Kocsma - which means hotel/pub.
On that basis, the first word is slavic.

On 12 December 2012 11:37, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Bill,
> Those images are pretty well buried in your upload. If you got these
> online, then it is much easier for us if you copy and paste the link in a
> reply to this. Otherwise, you can state the region/district/town and type
> of record (eg birth) and we can follow that to get a more comprehensive
> view where we can compare the writing style for each entry. Also latin
> entries were interrupted with localized language around 1849, so that would
> help us as well.
>
> I think that both sets of words are the same (or almost), but written by a
> different hand.
> The entry is in latin, thought the 2 words after Maria don't appear to be.
> Image 2: looks like szra()ci is Szta()c()  <--SZ is Hungarian for S
> Image 3: looks like starefo is Statcs()
>
> Image 2: Kicma (pronounced Kitchma)
> Image 3: K(ol)csma - can be Kitcsma  <cs is pronounced Ch as in church.
>
> Now considering that the little upstroke before the c in image 2 for
> Sztatcs could be a t and so there is a phonetic similarity with image 3's
> Statcs.
> The same can be said for the other word.
> I think that both words sounded foreign to the scribe who wrote it the
> best he could. I don't think it is Hungarian.
> If you are sure that it is not her maiden name - or if he didn't remarry,
> then the likelyhood is that it is a placename (from this village), an
> alias, or even a job description.
>
> Peter M.
> On 12 December 2012 09:32, William <wsmorey@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3. I have
>> struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no
>> avail. I have the marriage record and other church records which show her
>> maiden name as Janossy. In both files it looks like the second word is
>> something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file. Any
>> help appreciated. Bill
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What Vilo says!
In image 3, the scribe ran out of space and finished krcma on the next
line. Could be a ka, which would make it krcma+ka.

Peter M.

On 12 December 2012 12:19, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> krčma means tavern or Inn. krčmar is an Inn Keeper, krčmarka, usually a
> waitress or female bar tender.
>
> Z Bohom,
>
> Vilo
>
> ________________________________
> From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation Help
>
>
>
>
> On the other hand the K word in image 2 looks peculiarly like krčma - which
> in Hungarian is Kocsma - which means hotel/pub.
> On that basis, the first word is slavic.
>
> On 12 December 2012 11:37, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello Bill,
> > Those images are pretty well buried in your upload. If you got these
> > online, then it is much easier for us if you copy and paste the link in a
> > reply to this. Otherwise, you can state the region/district/town and type
> > of record (eg birth) and we can follow that to get a more comprehensive
> > view where we can compare the writing style for each entry. Also latin
> > entries were interrupted with localized language around 1849, so that
> would
> > help us as well.
> >
> > I think that both sets of words are the same (or almost), but written by
> a
> > different hand.
> > The entry is in latin, thought the 2 words after Maria don't appear to
> be.
> > Image 2: looks like szra()ci is Szta()c() <--SZ is Hungarian for S
> > Image 3: looks like starefo is Statcs()
> >
> > Image 2: Kicma (pronounced Kitchma)
> > Image 3: K(ol)csma - can be Kitcsma <cs is pronounced Ch as in church.
> >
> > Now considering that the little upstroke before the c in image 2 for
> > Sztatcs could be a t and so there is a phonetic similarity with image 3's
> > Statcs.
> > The same can be said for the other word.
> > I think that both words sounded foreign to the scribe who wrote it the
> > best he could. I don't think it is Hungarian.
> > If you are sure that it is not her maiden name - or if he didn't remarry,
> > then the likelyhood is that it is a placename (from this village), an
> > alias, or even a job description.
> >
> > Peter M.
> > On 12 December 2012 09:32, William <wsmorey@...> wrote:
> >
> >> **
>
> >>
> >>
> >> I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3. I
> have
> >> struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to
> no
> >> avail. I have the marriage record and other church records which show
> her
> >> maiden name as Janossy. In both files it looks like the second word is
> >> something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file. Any
> >> help appreciated. Bill
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill,
The writing UNDER the name is an abbreviation of her religion and status in the
first instance.  That is, Roman Catholic and Pleb. or commoner and not nobility.

In you second example it just gives the religion, abbreviated - Roman Catholic.

It seems pretty clear that the writer thinks she has an alias or second name of
Krcma.  Or at least he is supplying it to prevent confusion with some other
person.  While many names have distant meanings that come from professions,
places, etc., there is no reason to believe that the refers to a profession.

When asking your kind of question it would be helpful if you told us beforehand
what kind of register this is; baptismal?? and the year and place.  If the text
is online, by all means give the citation so others can read a full text and
examine handwriting and column headings etc.  By not supplying this information
you make answering much more difficult.

Curt B.

Curt B.-

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William" <wsmorey@...> wrote:
>
> I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3.  I have
struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no
avail.  I have the marriage record and other church records which show her
maiden name as Janossy.  In both files it looks like the second word is
something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file.  Any help
appreciated.  Bill
>

Many thanks to you and others for the comments.  To answer - both samples are
from the LDS Church Film record number 1791929 for Grancs-Petrovce in Spis.  The
film also covers Dubrava, Zehra, Beharovce and Olsavka.  They are birth records
for children of Mathias and Maria, one on April 28, 1816 and the other on Sept
4, 1831.  Including the marriage record in Sep/Oct 1809 there are 12 records in
all. There are actually 3 entries each with a variation:
17 Dec 1813 - after Maria it looks like "Kacmar"
21 April 1816 - after Maria it looks like "glesebo Kac(s)ma"
4 Sept 1831 - after Maria:  "Sz.axi Krcma"
Except for those entries her last name of Janossy is used consistently and is
quite clear.  Other entries, as noted, have religion and status such as Roman
Catholic and Pleb. I am familiar with those.
   Using my Mac I scanned and copied those two entries but perhaps there is a
better way.  I'll work on it.
  Also, all 12 records seem to be written by a different hand and I have looked
through all of them for similar entries and do not see them.
Bill

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> The writing UNDER the name is an abbreviation of her religion and status in
the first instance.  That is, Roman Catholic and Pleb. or commoner and not
nobility.
>
> In you second example it just gives the religion, abbreviated - Roman
Catholic.
>
> It seems pretty clear that the writer thinks she has an alias or second name
of Krcma.  Or at least he is supplying it to prevent confusion with some other
person.  While many names have distant meanings that come from professions,
places, etc., there is no reason to believe that the refers to a profession.
>
> When asking your kind of question it would be helpful if you told us
beforehand what kind of register this is; baptismal?? and the year and place. 
If the text is online, by all means give the citation so others can read a full
text and examine handwriting and column headings etc.  By not supplying this
information you make answering much more difficult.
>
> Curt B.
>
> Curt B.-
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William" <wsmorey@> wrote:
> >
> > I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3.  I have
struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no
avail.  I have the marriage record and other church records which show her
maiden name as Janossy.  In both files it looks like the second word is
something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file.  Any help
appreciated.  Bill
> >
>