Bill

I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with

2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex

or if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

other breeds category.

I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we

have some Jewish ancestors.  One reason I found this household interesting

was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

different from him.  Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.



MaryLou



-------Original Message-------



From: Bill Tarkulich

Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



MaryLou,



Every village paints a different personality.  They have different customs

and traditions.  It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.



I can tell you a bit about small villages however.  They were poor.  Most

of them were really poor.   "Duplex" was not something found in rural

villages 140 years ago.  People lived together either because they had to,

or because they employed hired help.  Often, "hired help" was one or two

individuals, not usually an entire family.  The first entrant on the

census was the property owner.  You often found other relatives,

especially married-ins living with them.  What you don't note is the

number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings.  That's why an entire

page was devoted to it.



I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

Confession"  later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania"  (Slovak

Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)





On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

> categories

> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under

> occupation and profession.

> I did find something interesting.

> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had

> 2

> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

> sheds/barns/stalls.  What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the

> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd.  Almost sounds like a

> duplex,

> doesn't it?

> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

> were

> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like:  AH

> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the

> handwriting.

> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask

> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>

> MaryLou







------------------------------------



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     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marylou,



In the Zipser German villages, like Eisdorf/Zakovce, while the cottager homes

would be small, the farm houses were large, enclosing a inner courtyard. While

there was usually only one kitchen, because of the difficulty of inserting new

chimneys, the arrangement otherwise allowed 4 or 5 families to live in the

farmhouse, just occupying one or two rooms each. These were usually related, but

I guess that if needed, a rent paying Jewish tenant was welcome, too.

The only problem would have been the kitchen, as the families kinda shared/had

their time slot. Charcoal does not have to be kosher, but if the family had just

killed a pig and was enjoying Blutwurst, while the Jewish lady was trying to

cook kosher, there could be conflicts. Both sides were probably not extreme in

their religious views. I'm not familiar with Henschau/Hannsdorf (Hanusovce),

though.



Thomas



---- MaryLou <mlvc@...> wrote:

> Bill

> I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with

> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex

> or if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

> other breeds category.

> I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we

> have some Jewish ancestors.  One reason I found this household interesting

> was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

> hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

> different from him.  Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

> ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

>

> MaryLou

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

> From: Bill Tarkulich

> Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

> census

>

> MaryLou,

>

> Every village paints a different personality.  They have different customs

> and traditions.  It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

> look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

>

> I can tell you a bit about small villages however.  They were poor.  Most

> of them were really poor.   "Duplex" was not something found in rural

> villages 140 years ago.  People lived together either because they had to,

> or because they employed hired help.  Often, "hired help" was one or two

> individuals, not usually an entire family.  The first entrant on the

> census was the property owner.  You often found other relatives,

> especially married-ins living with them.  What you don't note is the

> number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

> peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings.  That's why an entire

> page was devoted to it.

>

> I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

> seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

> Confession"  later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

> Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania"  (Slovak

> Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)

>

>

> On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

> > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

> > categories

> > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under

> > occupation and profession.

> > I did find something interesting.

> > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

> > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had

> > 2

> > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

> > sheds/barns/stalls.  What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the

> > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd.  Almost sounds like a

> > duplex,

> > doesn't it?

> > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

> > were

> > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like:  AH

> > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the

> > handwriting.

> > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask

> > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

> >

> > MaryLou

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups

> com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---------------------

> Text inserted by Panda GP 2010:

>

>   This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail

> (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:

> http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1&SPAM=true&path=C:\Users\MaryLou\AppData\

> ocal\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202010\AntiSpam

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---------------------

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, go to

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>

>

>

Thomas has good points.  Something to keep in mind, that all census are a

snapshot of the moment.  You cannot tell if this was a temporary situation

(i.e., a house burned down), or a long term arrangement.



On Thu, December 3, 2009 3:32 pm, treimer@... wrote:

> Marylou,

>

> In the Zipser German villages, like Eisdorf/Zakovce, while the cottager

> homes would be small, the farm houses were large, enclosing a inner

> courtyard. While there was usually only one kitchen, because of the

> difficulty of inserting new chimneys, the arrangement otherwise allowed 4

> or 5 families to live in the farmhouse, just occupying one or two rooms

> each. These were usually related, but I guess that if needed, a rent

> paying Jewish tenant was welcome, too.

> The only problem would have been the kitchen, as the families kinda

> shared/had their time slot. Charcoal does not have to be kosher, but if

> the family had just killed a pig and was enjoying Blutwurst, while the

> Jewish lady was trying to cook kosher, there could be conflicts. Both

> sides were probably not extreme in their religious views. I'm not familiar

> with Henschau/Hannsdorf (Hanusovce), though.

>

> Thomas

>

> ---- MaryLou <mlvc@...> wrote:

>> Bill

>> I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and

>> with

>> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a

>> duplex

>> or if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

>> other breeds category.

>> I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often

>> thought we

>> have some Jewish ancestors.  One reason I found this household

>> interesting

>> was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total

>> bigot--He

>> hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

>> different from him.  Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would

>> be

>> ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

>>

>> MaryLou

>>

>> -------Original Message-------

>>

>> From: Bill Tarkulich

>> Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

>> Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce -

>> 1869

>> census

>>

>> MaryLou,

>>

>> Every village paints a different personality.  They have different

>> customs

>> and traditions.  It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

>> look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can

>> deduce.

>>

>> I can tell you a bit about small villages however.  They were poor.

>> Most

>> of them were really poor.   "Duplex" was not something found in rural

>> villages 140 years ago.  People lived together either because they had

>> to,

>> or because they employed hired help.  Often, "hired help" was one or two

>> individuals, not usually an entire family.  The first entrant on the

>> census was the property owner.  You often found other relatives,

>> especially married-ins living with them.  What you don't note is the

>> number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

>> peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings.  That's why an entire

>> page was devoted to it.

>>

>> I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

>> seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

>> Confession"  later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

>> Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania"

>> (Slovak

>> Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)

>>

>>

>> On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

>> > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

>> > categories

>> > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially

>> under

>> > occupation and profession.

>> > I did find something interesting.

>> > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on

>> the

>> > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house

>> had

>> > 2

>> > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

>> > sheds/barns/stalls.  What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as

>> the

>> > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd.  Almost sounds like a

>> > duplex,

>> > doesn't it?

>> > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

>> > were

>> > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like:  AH

>> > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading

>> the

>> > handwriting.

>> > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can

>> ask

>> > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>> >

>> > MaryLou

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>>

>> To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups

>> com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

>> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> ---------------------

>> Text inserted by Panda GP 2010:

>>

>>   This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited

>> mail

>> (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:

>> http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1&SPAM=true&path=C:\Users\MaryLou\AppData\

>> ocal\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202010\AntiSpam

>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> ---------------------

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>>

>> To unsubscribe from this group, go to

>> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

>> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, go to

> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>

>

>

>





--

Bill Tarkulich

http://www.iabsi.com

Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva



1910 Census:

301 Magyar

117 German

751 Slovak

---

497 Roman Catholic

465 Evangelical

255 Jewish



It's probably fair to assume that the proportions were similar in 1869.



Bill

In 1869, there was a population of 1,563,in 168 houses.  That's 9 people

per house on the average.    This was a small town capable of supporting

multiple churches.  Given the house description shown, most people lived

and slept in one or two rooms, often with the men sleeping in the barn

with the animals. They probably lived as one nuclear family, not separate

entities.  Your house seems like a 1-floor traditional house.  Often the

"attic" was used to store hay and other preserved/dried foodstuffs, and

was a rough place to sleep.



Was it two cows or two oxen?



It's actually surprising to see people of different denominations in the

same roof, but anything's possible!



I can check on the ethnic breakdown of the 1869 census tomorrow, I don't

have the books here today.



Bill



On Thu, December 3, 2009 2:58 pm, MaryLou wrote:

> Bill

> I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and

> with

> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a

> duplex

> or if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

> other breeds category.

> I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought

> we

> have some Jewish ancestors.  One reason I found this household interesting

> was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

> hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

> different from him.  Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

> ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

>

> MaryLou

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

> From: Bill Tarkulich

> Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

> census

>

> MaryLou,

>

> Every village paints a different personality.  They have different customs

> and traditions.  It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

> look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

>

> I can tell you a bit about small villages however.  They were poor.  Most

> of them were really poor.   "Duplex" was not something found in rural

> villages 140 years ago.  People lived together either because they had to,

> or because they employed hired help.  Often, "hired help" was one or two

> individuals, not usually an entire family.  The first entrant on the

> census was the property owner.  You often found other relatives,

> especially married-ins living with them.  What you don't note is the

> number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

> peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings.  That's why an entire

> page was devoted to it.

>

> I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

> seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

> Confession"  later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

> Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania"  (Slovak

> Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)

>

>

> On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

>> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

>> categories

>> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially

>> under

>> occupation and profession.

>> I did find something interesting.

>> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

>> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house

>> had

>> 2

>> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

>> sheds/barns/stalls.  What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the

>> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd.  Almost sounds like a

>> duplex,

>> doesn't it?

>> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

>> were

>> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like:  AH

>> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading

>> the

>> handwriting.

>> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can

>> ask

>> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>>

>> MaryLou

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups

> com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---------------------

> Text inserted by Panda GP 2010:

>

>   This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail

> (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:

> http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1&SPAM=true&path=C:\Users\MaryLou\AppData\

> ocal\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202010\AntiSpam

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---------------------

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> To visit your group on the web, go to:

>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, go to

> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>

>

>

>





--

Bill Tarkulich

http://www.iabsi.com

MaryLou,

    http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website.

     I was hoping that within the "Fotogaleria" they would have had some pictures

of older buildings. I saw none. It seems to have a lot of "modern" buildings.

I'm wondering if during WWII it may have been badly damaged and a new Hanusovce

built.





From: MaryLou

Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:58 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census







Bill

I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with

2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex

or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

other breeds category.

I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we

have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting

was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.



MaryLou



-------Original Message-------



From: Bill Tarkulich

Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



MaryLou,



Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs

and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.



I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most

of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural

villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,

or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two

individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the

census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,

especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the

number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire

page was devoted to it.



I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak

Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)





On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

> categories

> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under

> occupation and profession.

> I did find something interesting.

> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had

> 2

> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

> sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the

> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a

> duplex,

> doesn't it?

> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

> were

> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH

> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the

> handwriting.

> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask

> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>

> MaryLou







------------------------------------



To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/



To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups

com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to

SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links









----------------------------------------------------------

---------------------

Text inserted by Panda GP 2010:



This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail

(spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:

http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1&SPAM=true&path=C:\Users\MaryLou\AppData\

ocal\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202010\AntiSpam

----------------------------------------------------------

---------------------





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a followup to my own message, the families in this village are on my

father's side of the family.

MaryLou



-------Original Message-------



From: MaryLou

Date: 12/3/2009 3:18:13 PM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



Bill

I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with

2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex

or if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

other breeds category.

I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we

have some Jewish ancestors.  One reason I found this household interesting

was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

different from him.  Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.



MaryLou



-------Original Message-------



From: Bill Tarkulich

Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



MaryLou,



Every village paints a different personality.  They have different customs

and traditions.  It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.



I can tell you a bit about small villages however.  They were poor.  Most

of them were really poor.   "Duplex" was not something found in rural

villages 140 years ago.  People lived together either because they had to,

or because they employed hired help.  Often, "hired help" was one or two

individuals, not usually an entire family.  The first entrant on the

census was the property owner.  You often found other relatives,

especially married-ins living with them.  What you don't note is the

number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings.  That's why an entire

page was devoted to it.



I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

Confession"  later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania"  (Slovak

Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)





On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

> categories

> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under

> occupation and profession.

> I did find something interesting.

> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had

> 2

> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

> sheds/barns/stalls.  What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the

> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd.  Almost sounds like a

> duplex,

> doesn't it?

> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

> were

> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like:  AH

> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the

> handwriting.

> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask

> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>

> MaryLou







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is certainly possible, Michael.  I have looked at this page--loved that

some of the former mayors were/are related to me! LOL

I have a couple of pictures that my father took when he visited the village

in the 1970s--he visited our relatives there and took a few pictures of

their home.  I haven't digitized these yet but when I do I will create an

album for the group to look at.

ML



-------Original Message-------



From: Michael Mojher

Date: 12/3/2009 4:02:03 PM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



MaryLou,

    http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website.

     I was hoping that within the "Fotogaleria" they would have had some

pictures of older buildings. I saw none. It seems to have a lot of "modern"

buildings. I'm wondering if during WWII it may have been badly damaged and a

new Hanusovce built.





From: MaryLou

Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:58 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census







Bill

I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with

2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex

or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

other breeds category.

I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we

have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting

was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.



MaryLou



-------Original Message-------



From: Bill Tarkulich

Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



MaryLou,



Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs

and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.



I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most

of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural

villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,

or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two

individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the

census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,

especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the

number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire

page was devoted to it.



I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak

Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)





On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

> categories

> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under

> occupation and profession.

> I did find something interesting.

> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had

> 2

> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

> sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the

> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a

> duplex,

> doesn't it?

> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

> were

> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH

> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the

> handwriting.

> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask

> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>

> MaryLou







------------------------------------



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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/



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com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there

until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and a

hallway - the stove was at the end of the hallway for joint use.. Then there was

a big room on either side for each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.



In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived in the old

small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on narrow benches in the main

room, the parents got the bed, sometimes  the grandparents got one too (these

were really narrow looking beds and all in the same room ) - good example of

this is in Stara Lubovna skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times

the older people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and

slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.



Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big leap to the

new world.



helene







________________________________

From: MaryLou <mlvc@...>

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 2:58:23 PM

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census



 

Bill

I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with

2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex

or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the

other breeds category.

I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we

have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting

was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He

hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were

different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be

ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.



MaryLou



-------Original Message----- --



From: Bill Tarkulich

Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

census



MaryLou,



Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs

and traditions.. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and

look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.



I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most

of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural

villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,

or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two

individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the

census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,

especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the

number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a

peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire

page was devoted to it.



I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without

seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg

Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in

Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak

Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)





On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:

> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the

> categories

> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under

> occupation and profession.

> I did find something interesting.

> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the

> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had

> 2

> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other

> sheds/barns/ stalls. What is interesting- -my ancestors are listed as the

> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a

> duplex,

> doesn't it?

> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them

> were

> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH

> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the

> handwriting.

> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask

> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.

>

> MaryLou







------------ --------- --------- ------



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had

preserved the tradition of extended families in one house

(vel'korodina), similar to a Balkan tradition (zadruga). The parents and

their children with their eventual families lived together, with papa

and mama ruling the roost. It wasn't uncommon for 30 or 40 people to

share a house.  Think of it!  Apparently it went out by the late 19th

century, but traces must have survived in the social thinking of the

villagers.



Joe





> There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families

> lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum.

> There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the

> hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for

> each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.

>

> In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived

> in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on

> narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes

> the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds

> and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna

> skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older

> people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and

> slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.

>

> Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big

> leap to the new world.

>

> helene

>

MaryLou,



Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as

well.  The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of floor

plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans for the

four plexes.  They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite simple, on the

same principle we often build with in America.  The units are sometimes a mirror

image of one another.  Basically you enter a hallway with a storage room on one

side and the living room on the other side.  One three chamber unit measures

about 4 meters by 11 meters.  Another quadriplex has a central hallway and four

rooms, each with its own oven.  One room per family.  Another duplex is an

almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each unit to its own storage

room and on into the family (living) room.  Each living room is about 7.5 m x

5m.  Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.



General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too

surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children) and a

more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their

children)."  "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one store

room (larder) and one entrance room.   ... wealthier groups of society towards

the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and a kitchen."

Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being modified to fit the

changing number of occupants - storage rooms also becoming sleeping rooms, with

the living room remaining the only heated room in the house.  In the largest

families there were sometimes individual rooms for each married couple.  One

floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel.



The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible as

we are, and they made do with what they had.  Imagine what they would think of a

2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!



If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World,

where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.



Ron



--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:

>

> Bill

> I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with>

2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex> or

if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the> other

breeds category.

>

> MaryLou

>

Fascinating info--thanks.

Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring

the way my ancestors lived.

MaryLou



-------Original Message-------



From: Ron

Date: 12/5/2009 4:50:40 AM

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869

duplex ho



MaryLou,



Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as

well.  The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of

floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans

for the four plexes.  They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite

simple, on the same principle we often build with in America.  The units are

sometimes a mirror image of one another.  Basically you enter a hallway with

a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side.  One three

chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters.  Another quadriplex has a

central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven.  One room per family

   Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each

unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room.  Each

living room is about 7.5 m x 5m.  Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.



General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too

surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children)

and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their

children)."  "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one

store room (larder) and one entrance room.   ... wealthier groups of society

towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and

a kitchen."  Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being

modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also

becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room

in the house.  In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms

for each married couple.  One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel





The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible

as we are, and they made do with what they had.  Imagine what they would

think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!



If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World,

where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.



Ron



--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:

>

> Bill

> I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and

with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a

duplex> or if the rooms all were joined.   Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in

the> other breeds category.

>

> MaryLou

>







------------------------------------



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     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/



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com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to

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