I sure can...but am I able to send an attached document to the list or
should I send it off list?

On 1/2/06, Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
>
>  Dear Kristine,
> This is a very wrong reading and there is no such or similar village in
> Zemplin. Can you make this document available for us to see and do our own
> reading?
> I checked the whole map of Zemplin for you and nothing comes close.
> Vladimir
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Kristine
>   To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:17 PM
>   Subject: [S-R] Szfarona, Zemplen County, Hungary????
>
>
>   I have a marriage license of my great grandfather to his second wife in
> 1900
>   Braddock, Alleghany County, PA.  It is somewhat hard to read.  I had
> someone
>   who kindly helped me out and said he said it reads that my great
> grandfather
>   (Michael Andryko) was born in the village of Szfarona, Zemplen County,
>   Hungary.
>
>   My question is...I did a google search and looked through some Hungarian
> and
>   Slovaks sites and have not come across that village name...Szfarona.  I
> know
>   the name could have changed in spelling or maybe it just does not exist
>   anymore?  Is anyone familiar with this village name?
>
>   Thank you!
>
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS Genealogy research  Cellular phone family plan  Family
> genealogy
>         Family vacations  Genealogy family tree
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>     a..  Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
>
>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
>   Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
>   http://www.eset.sk
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>    -  Visit your group
"SLOVAK-ROOTS<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>"
>    on the web.
>
>    -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    
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>    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You bring up a host of fascinating topics, that have intrigued me too.  It
might help to separate them and see if we can develop them one at a
time,although they are related.  One topic is the village hierarchy and the
meaning of the various terms applied to individuals.  Another is the
question of marriage between different social strata.  A third is the
history of relations between Slovaks and Magyars.  A fourth is the history
of the Roma in Slovakia and their interaction with Slovak society.  A fifth
is the effect of massive emigration and repatriation among Slovaks after
1880.  And so on.





----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Kotlarchik" <kkotlarc@...>
To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: [S-R] Slovak Culture


> Yes, I have read the Grisak Family History and agree that it is a
> very good book.  I have also ordered several other books that have
> been recommended but I was hoping that we could discuss things in
> this forum that you don't necessarily find in the literature.  It
> seems like the more I read, the more questions I have.
>
> For example, how common was it for Slovaks and Magyars to marry?  I
> had the impression it was not that common but I am finding it
> frequently in my family records.  This would suggest to me, that
> over time, the Slovak population would have been assimilated into
> Hungarian population.  But that did not happen.  So, was there much
> tension between the two groups?
>
> I asked my earlier question about the status differences between the
> different terms for farmer because I find most of them used in my
> family records.   Oddly, one clan in my family were only herdsmen,
> of every kind, for many generations.  Then suddenly one marries
> someone from a family listed as a colonus in one record and jobbagy
> in another.   From what I have read, herdsmen did not participate
> much in the activities of the village.  So, was it unusual for one
> of them to marry someone who owned property? This individual had
> been in the army but he is the only member of his family clan that
> did not become a pasztor.  But he also moved away from the town
> where his wife was raised.  So how and why did he change
> occupations?
>
> Anyway, this is what I find interesting about researching the family
> history.  It is not just collecting dates and names.  I enjoy trying
> to understand the time period and the culture.  I'm trying to find
> others with a similar interest so we can share and learn from each
> other.  Most of the questions in this forum pertain to "how do I
> find something" which is important and I ask these questions too.
> But I would also like to discuss things that make a story about
> people's lives.  At some point, all of us should write up what we
> have learned from our family research.  This should not be just
> dates and facts but a personal history of one's family and the
> influences that shaped their lives.
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "johnqadam" <johnqadam@r...>
> wrote:
>>
>> There is an absolutely excellent book about the Rusyn US-immigrant
>> experience. It's an autobiography of Joseph Grisak, 1873-1950,
> born
>> in Slovinky, (today's Slovakia). It goes into great depth
> describing
>> day to day living. An absolutely precious glimpse into the past.
>> It has been recently scanned and is available at
>>
>> http://www.saed.kent.edu/~lucak/topica/Grisak.pdf
>> Be forewarned. It is 352 Kb and 98 pages in length. You will need
>> Acrobat reader.
>> Thanks to Larry Krupnak for bringing it to my attention.
>>
>> Here is Bill Trakulich's message 3944.1 from the Delphi site.
>>
>> There is an absolutely excellent book about the Rusyn US-immigrant
>> experience. It's an autobiography of Joseph Grisak, 1873-1950,
> born
>> in Slovinky, (today's Slovakia). It goes into great depth
> describing
>> day to day living. An absolutely precious glimpse into the past.
>> It has been recently scanned and is available at
>>
>> http://www.saed.kent.edu/~lucak/topica/Grisak.pdf
>> Be forewarned. It is 352 Kb and 98 pages in length. You will need
>> Acrobat reader.
>>
>> >>From the Library of Congress on-line catalog:
>> >
>> > Title: The Grisak family
>> > Authors: Grisak, Michael J. , 1910- (Main Author) *
>> >LC Control Number: 79103327
>> > Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)
>> > Personal Name: Grisak, Michael J.
>> > Main Title: The Grisak family / compiled by Michael J. Grisak.
>> >Published/Created: [Merrillville, Ind.] : Grisak, [1978-1979]
>> > Description: 2 v. : ill. ; 28 cm.
>> > Notes: Cover title.
>> > Subjects: Grisak, Michael J.
>> > Grisak family.
>> > Czechoslovakia--Biography.
>> > United States--Biography.
>> >LC Classification: CT948.G74 A34
>> > Dewey Class No.: 943.7/03/0922 B
>> > Geog. Area Code: e-cs--- n-us---
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I think, Slovak Roots on Yahoo have the possibility to load photos under Files
or something like that. Go to the Yahoo site of this group and you will find
that.
Vladimir
I have not been using this for some time, but others did.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kristine
   To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:36 PM
   Subject: Re: [S-R] Szfarona, Zemplen County, Hungary????


   I sure can...but am I able to send an attached document to the list or
   should I send it off list?

   On 1/2/06, Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
   >
   >  Dear Kristine,
   > This is a very wrong reading and there is no such or similar village in
   > Zemplin. Can you make this document available for us to see and do our own
   > reading?
   > I checked the whole map of Zemplin for you and nothing comes close.
   > Vladimir
   >
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: Kristine
   >   To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
   >   Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:17 PM
   >   Subject: [S-R] Szfarona, Zemplen County, Hungary????
   >
   >
   >   I have a marriage license of my great grandfather to his second wife in
   > 1900
   >   Braddock, Alleghany County, PA.  It is somewhat hard to read.  I had
   > someone
   >   who kindly helped me out and said he said it reads that my great
   > grandfather
   >   (Michael Andryko) was born in the village of Szfarona, Zemplen County,
   >   Hungary.
   >
   >   My question is...I did a google search and looked through some Hungarian
   > and
   >   Slovaks sites and have not come across that village name...Szfarona.  I
   > know
   >   the name could have changed in spelling or maybe it just does not exist
   >   anymore?  Is anyone familiar with this village name?
   >
   >   Thank you!
   >
   >
   >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >   To unsubscribe from this group, go to
   > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
   > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >
   >
   >
   >   SPONSORED LINKS Genealogy research  Cellular phone family plan  Family
   > genealogy
   >         Family vacations  Genealogy family tree
   >
   >
   >
   >
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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   >
   >     a..  Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
   >
   >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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   >
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   >
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   >
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   >
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   >
   >   Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
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   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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   >
   >
   >  ------------------------------
   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
   >
   >
   >    -  Visit your group
"SLOVAK-ROOTS<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>"
   >    on the web.
   >
   >    -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   >    
SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...\
m?subject=Unsubscribe>
   >
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   >    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
   >
   >
   >  ------------------------------
   >


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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   Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
   http://www.eset.sk


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To follow on one of Carl's questions, I think that the era matters a lot.
At one point, the Magyars moved en masse north to avoid the Turks.  That's
when the capital was moved temporarily to Bratislava.  So they moved up
where there had not been a heavy Magyar presence before, bringing a lot of
Croats and other ethnicities with them.  As the Turks were driven out the
Magyars moved back down into the Hungarian heartland, but meanwhile a lot of
them had married into local villages.  When the curtain rises on our
villages in the church records. we find a lot of Magyar names, some held by
obviously Slovak families.  I am descended from a man named Samuel Szabo, a
newcomer of some kind ("hospes"),  who was born around 1730 and who married
into a local Slovak family.  In their case, the family within a generation
had adopted the Slovak surname Samko, from his first name.  Samuel Szabo was
probably a good catch, a man with some means who won a bride from a
well-to-do colonus family that owned enough to pay taxes to the Crown.

On the other hand, as Magyar nationism created pressure on Slovaks to
assimilate themselves, marrying a Magyar took on a different significance.
My great-uncle married a Magyar girl around 1910 in Bridgeport, both recent
immigrants.  His own mother was not allowed to speak Slovak in their home,
and the children were "raised Hungarian" as my father said.  Back home,
great-uncle John would have been called a "Magyarone" if I remember the term
correctly.  I spoke to a Ruthenian priest a few years ago who was quite
familiar with the concept.  It applied to Slovaks, or Rusyns, who adopted
Magyar culture in order to improve their social opportunities.  It was
rather like joining the Communist Party in the Soviet era.  After around
1870 and increasingly, you had to be Magyar in language and self-identity to
hold an important job or even become educated.  My grandparents could not
sing "Hej Slovaci" in their own country.  The whole movement for Slovak
political action and freedom from Magyardom was fought from the New World
because fighting it at home would land you in prison.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the SLOVAK-ROOTS
group.

   File        : /Michael and susan's marriage license.jpg
   Uploaded by : krissy924 <Moms2Angels@...>
   Description : Marriage License of Andryko possible from Zemplen Co.,
Hungary?Would like help reading village name and county please.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/files/Michael%20and%20susan%27s%20mar\
riage%20license.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

krissy924 <Moms2Angels@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the SLOVAK-ROOTS
group.

   File        : /cropped marriage license.jpg
   Uploaded by : krissy924 <Moms2Angels@...>
   Description : This is a cropped version of the marriage license of the name of
the village Michale Andryko was born...having trouble telling what village it
is.  Thanks!

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/files/cropped%20marriage%20license.jp\
g

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

krissy924 <Moms2Angels@...>

What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.

CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
CENTER (FHC)
When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
>>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
national basis. It is also necessary to know the >>>>religion<<<<.
To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
name, go to the LDS web site:
www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month, the
film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
research. Have you done this?

TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
translations.

LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can download.
See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message #3931.1 for
details.

1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
The old Hungarian map can be found at:
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg

SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics program.
CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you just
get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that you
will likely find in church records.

CURRENT MAP
To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.

BASIC RESEARCH HELP
For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's excellent
site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/

>>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web site?
>>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
>>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of Presov
>>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
>>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for Olsavce
>>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast Presov
>>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
>>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
>>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
Ukraine
>>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
>>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish: Sanok).
A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center in
Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.

Starina (Humenné), Slovakia; formerly Sztarina, Zemplén, Hungary.
Tarnocz, Ung Megye now Trnava pri Laborci

>   File        : /Michael and susan's marriage license.jpg
>   Uploaded by : krissy924 <Moms2Angels@g...>
>   Description : Marriage License of Andryko possible from Zemplen
Co., Hungary?Would like help reading village name and county please.
>

Starina and Trnava are north of Michalovce.

CURRENT MAP
To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.

In checking a current map, it would appear that Starina was flooded
when a reservoir or dam was put in place.

If you are rsearching Starina, make sure you are looking at the one in
Zemplen Megye = county and not Saros Megye, further west.

LDS has Greek Catholic parish register of births, marriages, and
deaths for Starina (Humenné), Slovakia; formerly Sztarina, Zemplén,
Hungary.

FHL INTL Film [ 1793894 Item 2 ]
Krstení 1845-1866
Zomrelí 1845-1868
Krstení 1866-1867
Sobášení 1845-1867
Krstení 1867-1868

>>In checking a current map, it would appear that Starina was flooded
when a reservoir or dam was put in place.

And yes, the certificate clearly reads SztarIna, Zemplen and is from the
Greek Catholic church in Braddock. And the name is AndrEJko, not Andryko.

-- All points I made without even having to see the certificate.

I might as well not even bother!

RDC


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch website, they
are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center. I've made some
visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I read your answer
correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are other names for
Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia*, then I have three souces that agree on
a village of birth, although I have a lot that say Olsavec, which I think is
in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to the other church record
sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce parish which I believe is in
Hancovce. Thanks, Tom

On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:
>
> What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
>
> CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> CENTER (FHC)
> When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> national basis. It is also necessary to know the >>>>religion<<<<.
> To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> name, go to the LDS web site:
> www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
>
> LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
> Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
> to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month, the
> film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> research. Have you done this?
>
> TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> translations.
>
> LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can download.
> See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> details.
>
> 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
>
> SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics program.
> CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you just
> get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that you
> will likely find in church records.
>
> CURRENT MAP
> To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
> proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
> http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
>
> ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
>
> BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's excellent
> site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
>
> >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web site?
> >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of Presov
> >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for Olsavce
> >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast Presov
> >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> Ukraine
> >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish: Sanok).
> A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center in
> Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records be there? I
overlayed that message # in
http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it? Thanks, Tom


On 1/2/06, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@...> wrote:
>
> Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch website,
> they are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center. I've made
> some visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I read your
> answer correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are other names
> for Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia *, then I have three souces that
> agree on a village of birth, although I have a lot that say Olsavec, which I
> think is in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to the other
> church record sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce parish which I
> believe is in Hancovce. Thanks, Tom
>
> On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:
> >
> > What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
> >
> > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> > CENTER (FHC)
> > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> > >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> > village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> > national basis. It is also necessary to know the >>>>religion<<<<.
> > To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> > name, go to the LDS web site:
> > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
> >
> > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
> > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
> > to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month, the
> > film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> > research. Have you done this?
> >
> > TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> > Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> > translations.
> >
> > LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can download.
> > See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> > #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> > details.
> >
> > 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> > The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
> >
> > SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics program.
> > CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you just
> > get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that you
> > will likely find in church records.
> >
> > CURRENT MAP
> > To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
> > proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
> > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> >
> > ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
> >
> > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's excellent
> > site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
> >
> > >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web site?
> > >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> > >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of Presov
> > >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> > >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for Olsavce
> > >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast Presov
> > >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> > >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> > >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> > Ukraine
> > >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> > >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish: Sanok).
> > A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center in
> > Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Vladimir,
Well, I disagree with you.  Questions like that help me understand
various things and I think they are useful.  I have been trying to
determine if my Slovak family married into Magyar families.  You
question how I know I'm a Slovak.  It is not from the church
records.  I knew three of my grandparents and two of my great-
grandparents.  There was no mistake as to what their ethnicity was.
They told me.  They also declared it in the immigration records, the
U.S.census, and their applications for U.S. citizenship.  Plus, that
was the language they spoke. In addition, all the cousins and
relatives who came to America at different times also declared their
ethnicity the same way.  So, I know I have Slovak, Serbian and
Ruthenian ancestry.  The herdsmen clan were Slovaks. They were not
Valachs, Ruthenians or Magyars as you suggest.  I once made the
mistake of saying that we were Czechoslovakian and I got strongly
reprimanded that we were Slovaks and not Czechs by my grandfather.

I have been told (off-line by members of this forum) that sometimes
Slovaks in Hungary took on Magyar names to be better accepted.  That
is why I asked the question if it was common for Slovaks to marry
Magyars in the 1800s.  I do not know if any of my ancestors were
Magyars.  It would be a surprise since it did not seem that my
grandparents would accept this.  However, I do see names that appear
to be Magyar in the church records, but as you say, they may seem
this way because they are mostly written in Hungarian.  Which brings
up another point, I have found some towns that have church records
written in Slovak in the early 1800s.  How common was this?

To be perfectly clear, I am not concerned about the specific
ethnicity of my ancestors.  The more divergent it is, the better.
That's what makes it interesting.  My grandfather was disturbed that
I married a "German".  However, my wonderful wife is one fourth
German, Norwegian, English and Scottish.  I'm just trying to keep up
with her!

Vladimir, you may not have seen my first message in this chain where
I did acknowledge your very helpful descriptions of town status at
Bill Tarkulich's website.  As a professional researcher, you are
very generous in your sharing of knowledge.  I really appreciate
your messages.
with regards,
Carl

-- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Carl,
> I like questions, but I am not very fond of " was this common?".
To make something common would mean to generalize it. This would not
bring you closer to understanding your family. All sorts of things
have happened, like always.
> 1. How common was it for Slovaks and Hungarians to marry? ( I
presume you mean each other)
> One immediately has to ask when and where.
> If someone was living and feeling like a Magyar, he was not very
welcome in a slovak family because of several things. The higher one
was on the social ladder, the more such marriage was possible. There
were times, where there was tension and there were times where there
was less tension. There were times, when the hungarian ethnicity was
endangered by the slavic ethnicities to be assimilated.
> There were times when the Magyars were trying to magyarize the
Slavs. This is when you find the term Jobbagy and slavic names
magyarized.
> How can you tell from the Church records, who was slovak and who
not if all names are spelled in magyar?
> Colonus is the farmer, who has in use a house and  land ( and has
a couple of horses), which is called sessio in latin or usadlost in
slovak and was the basic unit of farmership and supposed to be big
enough to give a good life for a family. ( When it was located next
to the road, it usually was some 35 steps wide) Neither colonus, not
anyone lower than him really owned anything but themselves and what
they could carry. The land belonged to the Landlord till the serfdom
was abolished.
> If somebody had a uniform ( as a soldier), he was much more
attractive, so he had a chance to step into a marriage with a girl
who was from a family which was higher on the ladder. On the other
hand, one can endlessly discuss the reasons for marriage. Then as
today.
> You can read something I wrote about the social order in a village
on a website of Bill Tarkulich.
> If your ancestors were herdsmen or shepherds, they most probably
were not Slovaks, but Valachs or Ruthenians. These folks have their
own specifics. The Valachs had even their own Law. So what was
common for the Valachs or Ruthenians, was not neccessarily comon for
other ethnic groups.
> In general it is true, that the more you research, the more
questions you have, so it is a long process untill you get a
feeling. You also have to get in touch with people who are carriers
of the heritage of your folks here and start to learn their
language. With speaking their language you will be able to get
deeper into secrets of life.
> Vladimir
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: amiak27
>   To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:45 PM
>   Subject: [S-R] Re: Slovak Culture
>
>
>   Carl,
>
>   As you gain information on the meanings of the words, I suggest
you
>   associate each meaning with a time and region, as words and
meanings
>   do change with time and place.  Look at our own history within
the
>   US and you will see that.  Part of the time, the Hungarians had
a
>   very active Diet (legislature) and they were constantly
tinkering
>   with social experiments.  I am skeptical that one word would
hold
>   one precise meaning over a century or two without hidden changes
in
>   status of that individual or class of people, and the same word
in
>   Upper Hungary could have a different variation of the meaning in
>   Transylvania at the same time.
>
>   Ron
>
>   --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Kotlarchik"
>   <kkotlarc@r...> wrote:
>   >
>   > Yes, I have read the Grisak Family History and agree that it
is a
>   > very good book.  I have also ordered several other books that
have
>   > been recommended but I was hoping that we could discuss things
in
>   > this forum that you don't necessarily find in the literature.
It
>   > seems like the more I read, the more questions I have.
>   >
>   > For example, how common was it for Slovaks and Magyars to
marry?
>   I
>   > had the impression it was not that common but I am finding it
>   > frequently in my family records.  This would suggest to me,
that
>   > over time, the Slovak population would have been assimilated
into
>   > Hungarian population.  But that did not happen.  So, was there
>   much
>   > tension between the two groups?
>   >
>   > I asked my earlier question about the status differences
between
>   the
>   > different terms for farmer because I find most of them used in
my
>   > family records.   Oddly, one clan in my family were only
herdsmen,
>   > of every kind, for many generations.  Then suddenly one
marries
>   > someone from a family listed as a colonus in one record and
>   jobbagy
>   > in another.   From what I have read, herdsmen did not
participate
>   > much in the activities of the village.  So, was it unusual for
one
>   > of them to marry someone who owned property? This individual
had
>   > been in the army but he is the only member of his family clan
that
>   > did not become a pasztor.  But he also moved away from the
town
>   > where his wife was raised.  So how and why did he change
>   > occupations?
>   >
>   > Anyway, this is what I find interesting about researching the
>   family
>   > history.  It is not just collecting dates and names.  I enjoy
>   trying
>   > to understand the time period and the culture.  I'm trying to
find
>   > others with a similar interest so we can share and learn from
each
>   > other.  Most of the questions in this forum pertain to "how do
I
>   > find something" which is important and I ask these questions
too.
>   > But I would also like to discuss things that make a story
about
>   > people's lives.  At some point, all of us should write up what
we
>   > have learned from our family research.  This should not be
just
>   > dates and facts but a personal history of one's family and the
>   > influences that shaped their lives.
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "johnqadam"
<johnqadam@r...>
>   > wrote:
>   > >
>   > > There is an absolutely excellent book about the Rusyn US-
>   immigrant
>   > > experience. It's an autobiography of Joseph Grisak, 1873-
1950,
>   > born
>   > > in Slovinky, (today's Slovakia). It goes into great depth
>   > describing
>   > > day to day living. An absolutely precious glimpse into the
past.
>   > > It has been recently scanned and is available at
>   > >
>   > > http://www.saed.kent.edu/~lucak/topica/Grisak.pdf
>   > > Be forewarned. It is 352 Kb and 98 pages in length. You will
>   need
>   > > Acrobat reader.
>   > > Thanks to Larry Krupnak for bringing it to my attention.
>   > >
>   > > Here is Bill Trakulich's message 3944.1 from the Delphi site.
>   > >
>   > > There is an absolutely excellent book about the Rusyn US-
>   immigrant
>   > > experience. It's an autobiography of Joseph Grisak, 1873-
1950,
>   > born
>   > > in Slovinky, (today's Slovakia). It goes into great depth
>   > describing
>   > > day to day living. An absolutely precious glimpse into the
past.
>   > > It has been recently scanned and is available at
>   > >
>   > > http://www.saed.kent.edu/~lucak/topica/Grisak.pdf
>   > > Be forewarned. It is 352 Kb and 98 pages in length. You will
>   need
>   > > Acrobat reader.
>   > >
>   > > >>From the Library of Congress on-line catalog:
>   > > >
>   > > > Title: The Grisak family
>   > > > Authors: Grisak, Michael J. , 1910- (Main Author) *
>   > > >LC Control Number: 79103327
>   > > > Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic,
etc.)
>   > > > Personal Name: Grisak, Michael J.
>   > > > Main Title: The Grisak family / compiled by Michael J.
Grisak.
>   > > >Published/Created: [Merrillville, Ind.] : Grisak, [1978-
1979]
>   > > > Description: 2 v. : ill. ; 28 cm.
>   > > > Notes: Cover title.
>   > > > Subjects: Grisak, Michael J.
>   > > > Grisak family.
>   > > > Czechoslovakia--Biography.
>   > > > United States--Biography.
>   > > >LC Classification: CT948.G74 A34
>   > > > Dewey Class No.: 943.7/03/0922 B
>   > > > Geog. Area Code: e-cs--- n-us---
>   > >
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group, go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank
email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thank you all very much!  You've been very very helpful to me.

On 1/2/06, rcuster@... <rcuster@...> wrote:
>
>  >>In checking a current map, it would appear that Starina was flooded
> when a reservoir or dam was put in place.
>
> And yes, the certificate clearly reads SztarIna, Zemplen and is from the
> Greek Catholic church in Braddock. And the name is AndrEJko, not Andryko.
>
> -- All points I made without even having to see the certificate.
>
> I might as well not even bother!
>
> RDC
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
>
>
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>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,
Yes, there are separate records for the various churches in the
1800s and late 1700s.  Earlier records were kept by the Roman
Catholic Church for all the various religions.

Go to the 1877 Dvorzsák Gazetteer (see Bill Tarkulich's tool box for
the link) and look up your ancestor's county and then their
village.  It will tell you where the specific records are for that
religion for that town.  It maybe a nearby town if they didn't have
their own church.



--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
wrote:
>
> John,
>
>      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
be there? I
> overlayed that message # in
> http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it?
Thanks, Tom
>
>
> On 1/2/06, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch
website,
> > they are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center.
I've made
> > some visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I
read your
> > answer correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are
other names
> > for Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia *, then I have three
souces that
> > agree on a village of birth, although I have a lot that say
Olsavec, which I
> > think is in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to
the other
> > church record sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce
parish which I
> > believe is in Hancovce. Thanks, Tom
> >
> > On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@r...> wrote:
> > >
> > > What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
> > >
> > > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> > > CENTER (FHC)
> > > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> > > >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> > > village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> > > national basis. It is also necessary to know the
>>>>religion<<<<.
> > > To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> > > name, go to the LDS web site:
> > > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
> > >
> > > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> > > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
History
> > > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will
need
> > > to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month,
the
> > > film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> > > research. Have you done this?
> > >
> > > TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> > > Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> > > translations.
> > >
> > > LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can
download.
> > > See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> > > #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> > > details.
> > >
> > > 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> > > The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> > > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
> > >
> > > SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics
program.
> > > CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you
just
> > > get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that
you
> > > will likely find in church records.
> > >
> > > CURRENT MAP
> > > To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of
the
> > > proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found
at
> > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> > >
> > > ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
> > >
> > > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> > > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's
excellent
> > > site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
> > >
> > > >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web
site?
> > > >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> > > >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of
Presov
> > > >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> > > >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for
Olsavce
> > > >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast
Presov
> > > >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> > > >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> > > >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> > > Ukraine
> > > >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> > > >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish:
Sanok).
> > > A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center
in
> > > Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send
blank email to
> > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Tom --
You're looking for this village:
Kamionka (aka Kamjanka Rymanivska), which was inhabited by Carpatho-Rusyns of
the Lemko subgroup.  The region was unofficially called "Lemkovyna" -- the Lemko
Region -- and was in Austrian Galicia, now southeastern Poland.  The closest
towns are Sanok, Rymanow, and Dukla.

http://lemko.org/maps100/Pages/Pg59.html
I believe it no longer exists as an inhabited place (it's just east of Zawadka
Rymanowska, beyond where the road ends).

Families in the village who owned land in 1787 are listed here:
http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/new/139.htm

If you want more info you may e-mail me privately.

RDC

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Tom
   To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:14 PM
   Subject: [S-R] Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query



        Also looking for a village called Kamianka, possibly Rumanivka,
   in the Sianik District(not sure what country) Yanoshak and
   Kulmaticky  and Cirko families, all claiming to be Ukrainian or
   Ruthenian, lived there with my references found in Holy
   Transfiguration of Our Lord Ukrainian(Byzantine) Catholic Church
   Hanover Section of Nanticoke, PA. Thanks, Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wrote about the Starina Reservoir and the consumed villages here:
I have been in touch with several people who are in touch with their
relatives from the former villages.  One village, Zvala has a memorial mass
onsite once per year.  I have photos of this year's memorial service and
some narratives to post in the coming months.
Read more here:
http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/settlements/starina_reservoir.htm
Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of johnqadam
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 5:02 PM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-R] Starina & Trnava

In checking a current map, it would appear that Starina was flooded
when a reservoir or dam was put in place.

If you are rsearching Starina, make sure you are looking at the one in
Zemplen Megye = county and not Saros Megye, further west.

LDS has Greek Catholic parish register of births, marriages, and
deaths for Starina (Humenné), Slovakia; formerly Sztarina, Zemplén,
Hungary.

FHL INTL Film [ 1793894 Item 2 ]
Krstení 1845-1866
Zomrelí 1845-1868
Krstení 1866-1867
Sobáąení 1845-1867
Krstení 1867-1868







To unsubscribe from this group, go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
be there? I
> overlayed that message # in
> http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it?
Thanks, Tom

YES  .  .  .

LDS FICHES (set of 6) LDS #6000786
Survey of parish registers in Slovakia up to the time of civil
registration. Provides details of church records that are held in
Slovak archives.  Index of villages is on fiche #6 and page
references refer to different religions. Most of these church
records are available on film via your LDS Family History Center.

TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
translations.

LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can download.
See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message #3931.1 for
details.

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
wrote:
>
> John,
>
>      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
be there?

Surrounding villages are showing RC church records, as you suggest.
The nearest I could find with Lutheran would be Nemcovce, 5 km east.

LDS has Evangelical Church parish registers of births, marriages and
deaths for Nemcovce, Slovakia, formerly Kapi-Németfalu, Sáros,
Hungary.

Krstení 1785-1843 Sobášení 1785-1843 Zomrelí 1785-1843 Birmovaní
1840-1886 DRUHOPISÍ Krstení, sobášení, zomrelí 1862-63, 1869 Krstení
1876-1895 Sobášení 1876, 1878-1895 Zomrelí 1876, 1878-1895 -  FHL
INTL Film [ 1792925 Items 2-3 ]

LDS also has the VERY informative 1869 Hungarian Census film
Orsócz (Olšavce)  FHL Film #2190014 Item 7

Those films will give you something to work on!

1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
The old Hungarian map can be found at:
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg

Locate Bartfa = Bardejov at map center. Go southeast four villages
along the narrow road to the yellow area and find Orsos. That's your
village. The Evangelical church is two villages east at
Tap.nemetfalu.

SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics program.
CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you just
get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that you
will likely find in church records.

Hancovce, Snina District
According to SR Archives, these village records are stored in the following
village files:
Jewish - Humenne
RC - Lubisa
GC - Maskovce

Hancovce, Bratislava District
RC - Hancovce
Jewish  Kurima
Evangelic- Marhan
GC - Resov


Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:07 PM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-R] Re: Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query

Tom,
Yes, there are separate records for the various churches in the
1800s and late 1700s.  Earlier records were kept by the Roman
Catholic Church for all the various religions.

Go to the 1877 Dvorzsák Gazetteer (see Bill Tarkulich's tool box for
the link) and look up your ancestor's county and then their
village.  It will tell you where the specific records are for that
religion for that town.  It maybe a nearby town if they didn't have
their own church.



--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
wrote:
>
> John,
>
>      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
be there? I
> overlayed that message # in
> http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it?
Thanks, Tom
>
>
> On 1/2/06, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch
website,
> > they are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center.
I've made
> > some visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I
read your
> > answer correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are
other names
> > for Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia *, then I have three
souces that
> > agree on a village of birth, although I have a lot that say
Olsavec, which I
> > think is in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to
the other
> > church record sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce
parish which I
> > believe is in Hancovce. Thanks, Tom
> >
> > On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@r...> wrote:
> > >
> > > What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
> > >
> > > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> > > CENTER (FHC)
> > > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> > > >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> > > village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> > > national basis. It is also necessary to know the
>>>>religion<<<<.
> > > To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> > > name, go to the LDS web site:
> > > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
> > >
> > > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> > > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
History
> > > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will
need
> > > to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month,
the
> > > film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> > > research. Have you done this?
> > >
> > > TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> > > Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> > > translations.
> > >
> > > LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can
download.
> > > See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> > > #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> > > details.
> > >
> > > 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> > > The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> > > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
> > >
> > > SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics
program.
> > > CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you
just
> > > get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that
you
> > > will likely find in church records.
> > >
> > > CURRENT MAP
> > > To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of
the
> > > proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found
at
> > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> > >
> > > ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
> > >
> > > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> > > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's
excellent
> > > site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
> > >
> > > >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web
site?
> > > >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> > > >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of
Presov
> > > >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> > > >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for
Olsavce
> > > >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast
Presov
> > > >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> > > >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> > > >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> > > Ukraine
> > > >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> > > >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish:
Sanok).
> > > A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center
in
> > > Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send
blank email to
> > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






To unsubscribe from this group, go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

I, too, welcome discussions of this sort. One cannot argue with Vladimir's
assertion that knowing generalizations about the culture does not tell you
about your own individual ancestors, but that is not entirely Carl's point.
It is also instructive to be able to place them into the larger social
context. Whether one's ancestors were typical or atypical of the culture
around them is itself interesting.



I think Andrea's breakdown is a good one. Vladimir's contributions to
understanding village hierarchy are most welcome, and I would like to add
Felix Game's article at http://www.felix-game.ca/html_files/gfarmer2.html.
Although some of his terminology is German, especially regarding money, his
discussion of village hierarchy for the period around 1800 is quite
detailed.



Neither of these articles, however, address how the nobility fit in. There
were different levels there, too, from the wealthy landowner to the
"barefoot" or "sandal" noble who had little to gain from his nobility except
a freedom from taxes. Everyone attended the same churches. Did the poor
nobles interact socially with the non-nobles, or did they consider
themselves separate? What was the lifestyle of the wealthier nobles? What of
those in between? Where did they live? How did they live? Did they rent or
own their land? And what of the larger towns? Not everyone lived in small
villages. What was the population make-up? How did they support themselves?



Since most people were peasants living in small villages, there is perhaps
good reason why nearly all of the information focuses on them, but it would
be good if we had at least some idea of how others fit into the social and
economic scene.



Janet







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janet,

For a partial answer a bunch of your questions I suggest you see if
you can locate a copy of  "A Cultural History of Hungary, from the
Beginnings to the Eighteenth Century" and its companion volume, "A
Cultural History of Hungary, In the Nineteenth and Twentieth
Centuries", both edited by Laszlo Kosa.  ISBN 963 13 4836 9, 1999
and ISBN 96313 4945 4, 2000, respectively.

They are excellent books and address a good part of what you are
asking, and unlike earlier Hungarian writings they do recognize the
different peoples who made up the history of Hungarian culture.
Both books are in English.  I cannot recommend a source other than a
very pleasurable trip to Budapest, where I picked up my copies.

Unfortunately the information is not as complete as we demand with
our modern standards, but fortunately the authors and editor do
identify where written information is missing.  The English is
excellent and it makes a fascinating read.  Sadly the information is
not easy to reduce to easy "sound bites" for passing along on the
forum.

Ron

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
wrote:
>
> I, too, welcome discussions of this sort. One cannot argue with
Vladimir's
> assertion that knowing generalizations about the culture does not
tell you
> about your own individual ancestors, but that is not entirely
Carl's point.
> It is also instructive to be able to place them into the larger
social
> context. Whether one's ancestors were typical or atypical of the
culture
> around them is itself interesting.
>
>
>
> I think Andrea's breakdown is a good one. Vladimir's contributions
to
> understanding village hierarchy are most welcome, and I would like
to add
> Felix Game's article at http://www.felix-
game.ca/html_files/gfarmer2.html.
> Although some of his terminology is German, especially regarding
money, his
> discussion of village hierarchy for the period around 1800 is quite
> detailed.
>
>
>
> Neither of these articles, however, address how the nobility fit
in. There
> were different levels there, too, from the wealthy landowner to the
> "barefoot" or "sandal" noble who had little to gain from his
nobility except
> a freedom from taxes. Everyone attended the same churches. Did the
poor
> nobles interact socially with the non-nobles, or did they consider
> themselves separate? What was the lifestyle of the wealthier
nobles? What of
> those in between? Where did they live? How did they live? Did they
rent or
> own their land? And what of the larger towns? Not everyone lived
in small
> villages. What was the population make-up? How did they support
themselves?
>
>
>
> Since most people were peasants living in small villages, there is
perhaps
> good reason why nearly all of the information focuses on them, but
it would
> be good if we had at least some idea of how others fit into the
social and
> economic scene.
>
>
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Richard,

My joining Slovak-Roots has now been very rewarding in a matter of days. I
had read about the Lemko region previously, and my personal opinion was that
Kamionka was in Southeastern Poland by the Sian River. Would Carpatho-Rusyns
consider themselves Ukrainian or Ruthenian? And may I ask what nationality
are you? I've never been on an international genealogical message before.
This amazes me. Thanks so much, Tom

  Richard D. Custer <rcuster@...> wrote:

> Tom --
> You're looking for this village:
> Kamionka (aka Kamjanka Rymanivska), which was inhabited by Carpatho-Rusyns
> of the Lemko subgroup.  The region was unofficially called "Lemkovyna" --
> the Lemko Region -- and was in Austrian Galicia, now southeastern
> Poland.  The closest towns are Sanok, Rymanow, and Dukla.
>
> http://lemko.org/maps100/Pages/Pg59.html
> I believe it no longer exists as an inhabited place (it's just east of
> Zawadka Rymanowska, beyond where the road ends).
>
> Families in the village who owned land in 1787 are listed here:
> http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/new/139.htm
>
> If you want more info you may e-mail me privately.
>
> RDC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:14 PM
> Subject: [S-R] Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query
>
>
>
>       Also looking for a village called Kamianka, possibly Rumanivka,
> in the Sianik District(not sure what country) Yanoshak and
> Kulmaticky  and Cirko families, all claiming to be Ukrainian or
> Ruthenian, lived there with my references found in Holy
> Transfiguration of Our Lord Ukrainian(Byzantine) Catholic Church
> Hanover Section of Nanticoke, PA. Thanks, Tom
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill,

      You are very helpful, Thank you for the village names, and 1 more
question I found Hankovce as a Roman Catholicon the LDS site, this is just
another spelling of Hancovce, isn't it? Thanks Again, Tom


On 1/2/06, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
>
> Hancovce, Snina District
> According to SR Archives, these village records are stored in the
> following
> village files:
> Jewish - Humenne
> RC - Lubisa
> GC - Maskovce
>
> Hancovce, Bratislava District
> RC - Hancovce
> Jewish  Kurima
> Evangelic- Marhan
> GC - Resov
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:07 PM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-R] Re: Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query
>
> Tom,
> Yes, there are separate records for the various churches in the
> 1800s and late 1700s.  Earlier records were kept by the Roman
> Catholic Church for all the various religions.
>
> Go to the 1877 Dvorzsák Gazetteer (see Bill Tarkulich's tool box for
> the link) and look up your ancestor's county and then their
> village.  It will tell you where the specific records are for that
> religion for that town.  It maybe a nearby town if they didn't have
> their own church.
>
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> >      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> > religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
> be there? I
> > overlayed that message # in
> > http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it?
> Thanks, Tom
> >
> >
> > On 1/2/06, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch
> website,
> > > they are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center.
> I've made
> > > some visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I
> read your
> > > answer correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are
> other names
> > > for Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia *, then I have three
> souces that
> > > agree on a village of birth, although I have a lot that say
> Olsavec, which I
> > > think is in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to
> the other
> > > church record sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce
> parish which I
> > > believe is in Hancovce. Thanks, Tom
> > >
> > > On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@r...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
> > > >
> > > > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> > > > CENTER (FHC)
> > > > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> > > > >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> > > > village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> > > > national basis. It is also necessary to know the
> >>>>religion<<<<.
> > > > To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> > > > name, go to the LDS web site:
> > > > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
> > > >
> > > > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> > > > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
> History
> > > > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will
> need
> > > > to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month,
> the
> > > > film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> > > > research. Have you done this?
> > > >
> > > > TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> > > > Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> > > > translations.
> > > >
> > > > LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can
> download.
> > > > See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> > > > #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> > > > details.
> > > >
> > > > 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> > > > The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> > > > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
> > > >
> > > > SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics
> program.
> > > > CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you
> just
> > > > get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that
> you
> > > > will likely find in church records.
> > > >
> > > > CURRENT MAP
> > > > To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of
> the
> > > > proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found
> at
> > > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> > > >
> > > > ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
> > > >
> > > > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> > > > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's
> excellent
> > > > site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
> > > >
> > > > >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web
> site?
> > > > >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> > > > >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of
> Presov
> > > > >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> > > > >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for
> Olsavce
> > > > >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast
> Presov
> > > > >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> > > > >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> > > > >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> > > > Ukraine
> > > > >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> > > > >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish:
> Sanok).
> > > > A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center
> in
> > > > Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send
> blank email to
> > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My error entirely, I misspelled the village name.  HANKOVCE is correct.


Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Potsko
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:34 AM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query

Bill,

      You are very helpful, Thank you for the village names, and 1 more
question I found Hankovce as a Roman Catholicon the LDS site, this is just
another spelling of Hancovce, isn't it? Thanks Again, Tom


On 1/2/06, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
>
> Hancovce, Snina District
> According to SR Archives, these village records are stored in the
> following
> village files:
> Jewish - Humenne
> RC - Lubisa
> GC - Maskovce
>
> Hancovce, Bratislava District
> RC - Hancovce
> Jewish  Kurima
> Evangelic- Marhan
> GC - Resov
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:07 PM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-R] Re: Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query
>
> Tom,
> Yes, there are separate records for the various churches in the
> 1800s and late 1700s.  Earlier records were kept by the Roman
> Catholic Church for all the various religions.
>
> Go to the 1877 Dvorzsák Gazetteer (see Bill Tarkulich's tool box for
> the link) and look up your ancestor's county and then their
> village.  It will tell you where the specific records are for that
> religion for that town.  It maybe a nearby town if they didn't have
> their own church.
>
>
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> >      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> > religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
> be there? I
> > overlayed that message # in
> > http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it?
> Thanks, Tom
> >
> >
> > On 1/2/06, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch
> website,
> > > they are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center.
> I've made
> > > some visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I
> read your
> > > answer correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are
> other names
> > > for Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia *, then I have three
> souces that
> > > agree on a village of birth, although I have a lot that say
> Olsavec, which I
> > > think is in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to
> the other
> > > church record sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce
> parish which I
> > > believe is in Hancovce. Thanks, Tom
> > >
> > > On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@r...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
> > > >
> > > > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> > > > CENTER (FHC)
> > > > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> > > > >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> > > > village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> > > > national basis. It is also necessary to know the
> >>>>religion<<<<.
> > > > To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> > > > name, go to the LDS web site:
> > > > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
> > > >
> > > > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> > > > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
> History
> > > > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will
> need
> > > > to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month,
> the
> > > > film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> > > > research. Have you done this?
> > > >
> > > > TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> > > > Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> > > > translations.
> > > >
> > > > LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can
> download.
> > > > See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> > > > #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> > > > details.
> > > >
> > > > 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> > > > The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> > > > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
> > > >
> > > > SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics
> program.
> > > > CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you
> just
> > > > get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that
> you
> > > > will likely find in church records.
> > > >
> > > > CURRENT MAP
> > > > To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of
> the
> > > > proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found
> at
> > > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> > > >
> > > > ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
> > > >
> > > > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> > > > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's
> excellent
> > > > site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
> > > >
> > > > >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web
> site?
> > > > >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> > > > >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of
> Presov
> > > > >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> > > > >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for
> Olsavce
> > > > >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast
> Presov
> > > > >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> > > > >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> > > > >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> > > > Ukraine
> > > > >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> > > > >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish:
> Sanok).
> > > > A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center
> in
> > > > Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send
> blank email to
> > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
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>
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>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Yahoo! Groups Links

Thank you, Ron, for pointing out this resource. I see a copy of both is
available in England through abebooks.com, though very expensive (over
$130). Volume 1 seems to be more available. I will try to pick them up when
we are in Budapest in March.



At some time in the future I will be publishing a book (probably on the
Corvinus Library website) based on the translations of the diary and other
writings of my husband's great-grandfather, who lived in Hungary 1825-1850,
when he immigrated to the U.S. He was a wealthy, educated young man, who,
though considering himself Magyar, was of Slovak ancestry from Turocz.
Although his voluminous writings (over 1000 pages) give special insight into
the life of a single individual, there is much there that touches on general
aspects of the culture and society. We learn, for instance, about the daily
work life of peasants who worked in the vineyards and of their relationship
with their overseers. We also get glimpses of the social life of the
nobility, such as a detailed description of a ball given by Baroness Revay
at the City Hall in Martin, as well as more "countrified" balls given in
villages. His observations include even detailed descriptions of the dresses
worn by each of the young girls. Although not comprehensive, as the Kosa
books appear to be, I hope that it will add to a growing body of literature
for English readers.



Janet





   _____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of amiak27
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 2:44 AM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Culture - Village Hierarchy



janet,

For a partial answer a bunch of your questions I suggest you see if
you can locate a copy of  "A Cultural History of Hungary, from the
Beginnings to the Eighteenth Century" and its companion volume, "A
Cultural History of Hungary, In the Nineteenth and Twentieth
Centuries", both edited by Laszlo Kosa.  ISBN 963 13 4836 9, 1999
and ISBN 96313 4945 4, 2000, respectively.

They are excellent books and address a good part of what you are
asking, and unlike earlier Hungarian writings they do recognize the
different peoples who made up the history of Hungarian culture.
Both books are in English.  I cannot recommend a source other than a
very pleasurable trip to Budapest, where I picked up my copies.

Unfortunately the information is not as complete as we demand with
our modern standards, but fortunately the authors and editor do
identify where written information is missing.  The English is
excellent and it makes a fascinating read.  Sadly the information is
not easy to reduce to easy "sound bites" for passing along on the
forum.

Ron

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
wrote:
>
> I, too, welcome discussions of this sort. One cannot argue with
Vladimir's
> assertion that knowing generalizations about the culture does not
tell you
> about your own individual ancestors, but that is not entirely
Carl's point.
> It is also instructive to be able to place them into the larger
social
> context. Whether one's ancestors were typical or atypical of the
culture
> around them is itself interesting.
>
>
>
> I think Andrea's breakdown is a good one. Vladimir's contributions
to
> understanding village hierarchy are most welcome, and I would like
to add
> Felix Game's article at http://www.felix-
game.ca/html_files/gfarmer2.html.
> Although some of his terminology is German, especially regarding
money, his
> discussion of village hierarchy for the period around 1800 is quite
> detailed.
>
>
>
> Neither of these articles, however, address how the nobility fit
in. There
> were different levels there, too, from the wealthy landowner to the
> "barefoot" or "sandal" noble who had little to gain from his
nobility except
> a freedom from taxes. Everyone attended the same churches. Did the
poor
> nobles interact socially with the non-nobles, or did they consider
> themselves separate? What was the lifestyle of the wealthier
nobles? What of
> those in between? Where did they live? How did they live? Did they
rent or
> own their land? And what of the larger towns? Not everyone lived
in small
> villages. What was the population make-up? How did they support
themselves?
>
>
>
> Since most people were peasants living in small villages, there is
perhaps
> good reason why nearly all of the information focuses on them, but
it would
> be good if we had at least some idea of how others fit into the
social and
> economic scene.
>
>
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

     Looks like I have a lot of LDS microfilm to look at, thanks to you and
Slovak-Roots. I had no Idea how helpful people could be. May I ask what
nationality and where you are from. If not, Thanks So Much, Tom


On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:
>
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> >      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> > religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
> be there?
>
> Surrounding villages are showing RC church records, as you suggest.
> The nearest I could find with Lutheran would be Nemcovce, 5 km east.
>
> LDS has Evangelical Church parish registers of births, marriages and
> deaths for Nemcovce, Slovakia, formerly Kapi-Németfalu, Sáros,
> Hungary.
>
> Krstení 1785-1843 Sobášení 1785-1843 Zomrelí 1785-1843 Birmovaní
> 1840-1886 DRUHOPISÍ Krstení, sobášení, zomrelí 1862-63, 1869 Krstení
> 1876-1895 Sobášení 1876, 1878-1895 Zomrelí 1876, 1878-1895 -  FHL
> INTL Film [ 1792925 Items 2-3 ]
>
> LDS also has the VERY informative 1869 Hungarian Census film
> Orsócz (Olšavce)  FHL Film #2190014 Item 7
>
> Those films will give you something to work on!
>
> 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
>
> Locate Bartfa = Bardejov at map center. Go southeast four villages
> along the narrow road to the yellow area and find Orsos. That's your
> village. The Evangelical church is two villages east at
> Tap.nemetfalu.
>
> SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics program.
> CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you just
> get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that you
> will likely find in church records.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill, I was the one who spelled it with the 'c', found it htat way in church
records. Thanks Again, Tom

On 1/3/06, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
>
> My error entirely, I misspelled the village name.  HANKOVCE is correct.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Tom Potsko
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:34 AM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query
>
> Bill,
>
>     You are very helpful, Thank you for the village names, and 1 more
> question I found Hankovce as a Roman Catholicon the LDS site, this is just
> another spelling of Hancovce, isn't it? Thanks Again, Tom
>
>
> On 1/2/06, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hancovce, Snina District
> > According to SR Archives, these village records are stored in the
> > following
> > village files:
> > Jewish - Humenne
> > RC - Lubisa
> > GC - Maskovce
> >
> > Hancovce, Bratislava District
> > RC - Hancovce
> > Jewish  Kurima
> > Evangelic- Marhan
> > GC - Resov
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:07 PM
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [S-R] Re: Packa Handzo Heylek Surany Hrivnak Gasparik Query
> >
> > Tom,
> > Yes, there are separate records for the various churches in the
> > 1800s and late 1700s.  Earlier records were kept by the Roman
> > Catholic Church for all the various religions.
> >
> > Go to the 1877 Dvorzsák Gazetteer (see Bill Tarkulich's tool box for
> > the link) and look up your ancestor's county and then their
> > village.  It will tell you where the specific records are for that
> > religion for that town.  It maybe a nearby town if they didn't have
> > their own church.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > >      Are there separate parish records for Catholic/Lutheran/other
> > > religions? Hankovce shows up as Catholic, would Lutheran records
> > be there? I
> > > overlayed that message # in
> > > http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages, what was it?
> > Thanks, Tom
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/2/06, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Although I found the names Patsko or Pacho on LDS FamilySearch
> > website,
> > > > they are not on a microfilm. It was at a Family History center.
> > I've made
> > > > some visits to Bill Tarkulich's website and ShtelSeeker. *If I
> > read your
> > > > answer correctly, that Arsod, Hungary and Orsocz, Austria are
> > other names
> > > > for Olsavce, Slovakia or Czechoslovakia *, then I have three
> > souces that
> > > > agree on a village of birth, although I have a lot that say
> > Olsavec, which I
> > > > think is in Spis. Based upon what you've given me I can go to
> > the other
> > > > church record sites looking for Packo names in the Olsavce
> > parish which I
> > > > believe is in Hancovce. Thanks, Tom
> > > >
> > > > On 1/2/06, johnqadam <johnqadam@r...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What is the QUESTION? The following is a generic answer.
> > > > >
> > > > > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
> > > > > CENTER (FHC)
> > > > > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
> > > > > >>>>village<<<< is paramount because records are organized by
> > > > > village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a
> > > > > national basis. It is also necessary to know the
> > >>>>religion<<<<.
> > > > > To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town
> > > > > name, go to the LDS web site:
> > > > > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
> > > > >
> > > > > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
> > > > > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
> > History
> > > > > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will
> > need
> > > > > to go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month,
> > the
> > > > > film will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your
> > > > > research. Have you done this?
> > > > >
> > > > > TRANSLATION OF CHURCH RECORDS
> > > > > Checkout http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ for parish record header
> > > > > translations.
> > > > >
> > > > > LDS also has a pretty good translation guide which you can
> > download.
> > > > > See forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages message
> > > > > #forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/messages  for
> > > > > details.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
> > > > > The old Hungarian map can be found at:
> > > > > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/saros.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics
> > program.
> > > > > CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you
> > just
> > > > > get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that
> > you
> > > > > will likely find in church records.
> > > > >
> > > > > CURRENT MAP
> > > > > To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of
> > the
> > > > > proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found
> > at
> > > > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
> > > > >
> > > > > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
> > > > > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's
> > excellent
> > > > > site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>LDS website<<<< You found your family names on the web
> > site?
> > > > > >>>>Lutheran<<<< You will need that info.
> > > > > >>>>Saris Olsavec or Saris, Olsavce<<<< 25 km northeast of
> > Presov
> > > > > >>>>Porubka<<<< 3 km east of Olsavce
> > > > > >>>Orsocz, Austria and Arsod, Hungary<<<< another name for
> > Olsavce
> > > > > >>>>Lada Czechoslovakia, also in Saris<<<< 11 km northeast
> > Presov
> > > > > >>>>Presov<<<< Eperjes is the old name on 1910 map
> > > > > >>>>Lukavica<<<< four choices in Slovakia
> > > > > >>>>Kamianka<<<< probably Kamjonka, Szepes megye = county or in
> > > > > Ukraine
> > > > > >>>>Rumanivka<<<<  other clues?
> > > > > >>>>Sianik<<<< Sianik or Sianok [Sjanik or Sjanok] (Polish:
> > Sanok).
> > > > > A city (1998 pop 41,600) on the Sian River and a county center
> > in
> > > > > Subcarpathia voivodeship, Poland.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send
> > blank email to
> > > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS  -or- send  blank email to
> > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@g...>
wrote:
>     Looks like I have a lot of LDS microfilm to look at  .  .  .

You currently have TWO films to start with. The census film will
tell you a lot about everyone who lived in the village of Olšavce in
1869. It serves as a snaphot in time. The Nemcovce Evangelical
church record will give you a hundred years of births, deaths and
marriages.

When researching the films, be sure to note the villgae name and
religion of the person. A marriage record may lead you to another
village, perhaps another religion, and so on. Every ANSWER yields
two more QUESTIONS and the process is never-ending.

Of course, you need computer software in order to keep your sanity.
LDS provides their program for free. I use Family Tree Maker.

> nationality and where you are from.

Canadian, from Toronto, eh! My genealogy research has taken me back
to Slovakia 5X and I look forward to additional future trips.

Good luck and happy squinting.