I haven't made this hat, but I have worked with rushes, the real ones
that you have to go pick yourself out of the marshy end of a lake.
There -is- no choice of shape; it just is. Latin is juncus? scirpus?
The bulrushes with the loose panicles.

Those hats look twined, to me. I've made small baskets with rushes, in
a similar fashion. Pick the rushes (we pick in fall when they are
longest), let them dry under shelter, then dampen and wrap in a damp
cloth overnight before working them.

Halima
--
http://www.island.net/~doerksen/

Quoting renedx <renedx@...>:

> Has anyone attempted to produce a reed woven hat as in the
> Maciejowski Bible? Would it use flat, round, oval, halfed reed/rush?
> Thank you for imput.
> http://www.medieval-market.biz/podglad.php?z=img/mens_cotte_type1_0.jpg
> http://www.medieval-market.biz/podglad.php?z=img/mens_cotte_type1_1.jpg
> http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf17/otm17vd.gif
>
> Joe-Sir Bran/Midrealm

Has anyone attempted to produce a reed woven hat as in the Maciejowski Bible?
Would it use flat, round, oval, halfed reed/rush? Thank you for imput.
http://www.medieval-market.biz/podglad.php?z=img/mens_cotte_type1_0.jpg
http://www.medieval-market.biz/podglad.php?z=img/mens_cotte_type1_1.jpg
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf17/otm17vd.gif

Joe-Sir Bran/Midrealm

In the images I've seen, the Alms baskets were carried by 2 handles,
oval in shape. This seems to make sense for the idea of a Voider as
well. Following the history of the baskets, from Voider to Maund to
Alms basket, you can trace back that shape. Probably a Willow basket,
woven to hold tight to whatever contents were in it. I'd even go with
semi-circular base (more like a tabbyweave)... there's several
possibilities there.

Good call on the correlation with crust of bread and alms for the
poor. It's exciting to think about it!

--- In SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com, "chrisredstone" <christine@...>
wrote:
>
> The reference to the Alms basket sounds grimly possible. In Medieval
> England they used loaves baked in a crude oven to serve the Lord of
> the Manor and his entourage their meals. Because of the way the bread
> was baked the base of the loaf was almost ineddible and this was
given
> to the poor. Hence the expression 'the uper crust' referring to the
> well off!
> Alms were donations given to the poor and if you think about the two
> situations - throwing left overs out to the poor and clearing the
> tables and putting the left overs in an Alms baskets, there is an
> obvious correlation- and it looks like the rich were still throwing
> their left overs to the humble poor even in the 1850's.
>

The reference to the Alms basket sounds grimly possible. In Medieval
England they used loaves baked in a crude oven to serve the Lord of
the Manor and his entourage their meals. Because of the way the bread
was baked the base of the loaf was almost ineddible and this was given
to the poor. Hence the expression 'the uper crust' referring to the
well off!
Alms were donations given to the poor and if you think about the two
situations - throwing left overs out to the poor and clearing the
tables and putting the left overs in an Alms baskets, there is an
obvious correlation- and it looks like the rich were still throwing
their left overs to the humble poor even in the 1850's.

Okay, I took a few steps and looked... first, an alternate name for
Voider is Alms Basket or Maund. A maund is described as being a small
wicker basket with handles. I found an image of a maund on
http://www.trugmaker.co.nz/products.php, but if you look up "alms
basket" on google images you can find one that works... I'd have a
simple wicker basket with two handles (like you might see in an old
school church when they "pass the basket" for tithes. Hope that helps!

Lady Kolfinna Vallagyoja

--- In SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Graves" <ld_tadhg@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm new here and very interested in finding out what a "voiding"
basket
> is. I can find it listed among possessions into the 17th century but
> don't know precisely what it is...or looks like.
>
> Does anyone here know? I'm trying to set up a subtlety that calls for
> it.
>
> Regards,
> Tadhg
>

According to a reference I found on Google Books (from a journal called "Notes
and Queries" published in London in 1853), a voiding knife and voider were used
to clean the tables after a meal.  The voiding knife was used to scrape the
scraps into the voider "the latter was a basket into which were swept. . .all
the bones and scraps left upon the trenchers or scattered about the table."
http://snipurl.com/armf0


As to what it looks like, your guess is as good as mine.  According to the above
reference, it could also be called an alms basket--you might have better luck
searching under that name.  Maybe someone else will be of further help.

Catriona de Brynton


________________________________
From: Chuck Graves <ld_tadhg@...>
To: SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:57:04 PM
Subject: [SCAbasketry] Voiding basket


Greetings,

I'm new here and very interested in finding out what a "voiding" basket
is. I can find it listed among possessions into the 17th century but
don't know precisely what it is...or looks like.

Does anyone here know? I'm trying to set up a subtlety that calls for
it.

Regards,
Tadhg



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,

I'm new here and very interested in finding out what a "voiding" basket
is. I can find it listed among possessions into the 17th century but
don't know precisely what it is...or looks like.

Does anyone here know? I'm trying to set up a subtlety that calls for
it.

Regards,
Tadhg

I am Magda z Stalburg residing in Atlantia.  I confess to being a
lurker for quite a while on the group with out introducing myself.  I
am old SCAdian who took a decade or 2 off and has returned.  I enjoy
domestic arts and have loved baskets for years. My personna is Polish
11th century.

I really wanted to thank Old Marion for the GREAT website.  It is so
hard to find primary resources in basketry for research.  If there are
any other recommendations I would love to hear about them.

Thank you again.

Magda

doerksen@... wrote:
>
>
> Salaam aleikum
>
> My name is Halima al-Rakkasa, late of Dimashq (SCA: Shire of
> Cragmere, Principality of Tir Righ, Kingdom of An Tir). I
> have joined in the hope of finding more information on Near
> Eastern basketry, more than the single image from the 13th
> century; if it's possible, I'd like to know more about
> baskets and other carrying-things from around Syria, 10
> years before the franji get uppity.
>

Welcome!

I have found a lot of information on ancient Egyptian basketry from the
site of the Petrie Museum in London:
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/basketry/

If you search their collection, you will find quite a number of images.
   One that I found really remarkable is from the Roman period:
http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/detail/details/index_no_login.php?objectid=UC28047&a\
ccesscheck=%2Fdetail%2Fdetails%2Findex.php


It is so incredibly modern looking.  Evidently in Egypt, once they got
the idea of basketry, nothing changed much.  I don't know if this was
true all over the Middle East, but it might make a starting point for
your research.

Best of luck!
Old Marian

Hi Everyone!

I really excited to find this group.  My name is Sisildi and I'm
from the Barony of Andelcrag in Pentemere, which is actually middle
to southwest Michigan.  I am just getting started with this craft
and so I'm looking for any books or websites that are good for
beginners.

I was also wondering if there was anyone in this area that perhaps
would be interested in getting together...as I learn better by doing
than by reading.

I am very interested in learning basketry for my own personal use
but if I could incorporate it into A&S that would be great too.

Any info anyone could share to get me started would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Sisildi

Greetings!

My name is Sisildi and I am from the Barony of Andelcrag in Pentemere,
which is the Grand Rapids/Lansing Area of Michigan.  I am just getting
started in this area and was looking for some helpful starter books or
other references to start peroid basket making.

If anyone one is from this area, I'd love to get your info because I'm
more of a visual learner when it comes to stuff like this but I pick
up the basics fairly quickly.

I'm also particularly interested in the tools used in peroid for
constructing baskets.

I look forward to hearing from folks and my hearty thanks in advance
for any helpful info.

Sisildi

Greetings!

My name is Laurensa, and I reside in the Shire of Owlsherste in the East
Kingdom. (mundanely York PA)

I haven't made a basket since about 5th grade art class, but have apparently
gotten a wild hair and want to learn how to do it. Cause, you know, I don't have
ENOUGH hobbies!

Laurensa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings, M',lord Halima!  I am also newly come to the list, hailing from the
Barony of
Eskalya, in the principality of Oertha, in the West Kingdom.  I fear I have
nothing to offer you in
your quest, but wish you every success in your quest for information.  It seems
this list is quite a slow list, as
I believe yours is the only message I have seen since my arrival a few months
ago--and my knowledge
is rather limited.  Welcome, though, and again, I hope you are able to find what
you seek.

Slainte,
Lord Angus MacLaren

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:09:20 -0700,  wrote:




>Salaam aleikum  My name is Halima al-Rakkasa, late of Dimashq (SCA: Shire of
>Cragmere, Principality of Tir Righ, Kingdom of An Tir). I  have joined in the
>hope of finding more information on Near  Eastern basketry, more than the
>single image from the 13th  century; if it's possible, I'd like to know more
>about  baskets and other carrying-things from around Syria, 10  years before
>the franji get uppity.  Oops.  I beg pardon... before the knights of the Holy
>Roman Empire  decide to rescue Jerusalem!  Ma'asalaama  Halima  --
>http://www.island. net/~doerksen/  ------------ --------- --------- ---------
>--------- --------- -  This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging
>Program.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My name is Madelena, I am from the Barony of Bjornsborg in the Kingdom
of Ansteorra.

I have been researching basketry and I am looking for more information
on medieval woven baby carriers.I was a scribal workshop and saw in an
illumination a little head drawn on top of the basket of a woman
working in the field. I haven't seen it since then, instead I've seen
illuminations of a child wrapped to the back of the adult with cloth.
I haven't seen any depictions of this method being used by the nobles
or royalty. The end result is hopefully finding an illumination to
recreate a woven basket baby carrier.

Any help or a point in the right direction would be helpful.

Thanks!

Madelena

Salaam aleikum

My name is Halima al-Rakkasa, late of Dimashq (SCA: Shire of
Cragmere, Principality of Tir Righ, Kingdom of An Tir). I
have joined in the hope of finding more information on Near
Eastern basketry, more than the single image from the 13th
century; if it's possible, I'd like to know more about
baskets and other carrying-things from around Syria, 10
years before the franji get uppity.

Oops.

I beg pardon... before the knights of the Holy Roman Empire
decide to rescue Jerusalem!


Ma'asalaama
Halima
--
http://www.island.net/~doerksen/


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

Greetings everyone,
	 I have just joined, and thought that I might write in and introduce myself.  I
am known in the society as Angus Maclaren. I hail from Eskalya (ancorage), in
the principality of Oertha (alaska.)  I am seeking to learn all I can of the
arts and sciences of our era, and have taken an interest in basketry as a
result of a class I took at Collegium last year.  Currently I am working only
with coiled baskets, but am hoping to learn other forms as well.  I am joining
the group in hopes of learning more and expanding my horizons.

Slainte,
Angus MacLaren


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christine Redstone wrote:
>
>
> Hi
> I have been growing willow since 2002 on the UK, I am interested in all
> aspects of willow work, and particularly sharing ideas and information with
> others. I am a member of the BA. I mainly install living willow sculptures
> and teach, usually children in schools but also at our Coppice Groups
> members meetings (Dane Coppice Crafts Group). You can see some of my work on
> my web site: www.redstonecentre.co.uk. I would describe myself as an
> enthusiast rather than and expert!
>
> Christine Redstone
>


Hello, Christine.

I looked at your site -- I love the bear!  I am also a member of the BA,
and they were kind enough to print pictures of some of my work a few
issues ago -- basken-woven hilts for Victorian singlesticks.

Welcome to the list.   I hope you find things here that you like.

--Old Marian

Hi
  I have been growing willow since 2002 on the UK, I am interested in all
aspects of  willow work, and particularly sharing ideas and information with
others. I am a member of the BA. I mainly install living willow sculptures
and teach, usually children in schools but also at our Coppice Groups
members meetings (Dane Coppice Crafts Group). You can see some of my work on
my web site: www.redstonecentre.co.uk. I would describe myself as an
enthusiast rather than and expert!


Christine Redstone


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A late response regarding brewing baskets: I read Billy Quinn's
description of the brewing experiment with great interest and
contacted him about the basket used. He responded with the following:

"We simply needed a large 'sieve' to wash the malted barley out and
convert the starches to soluble sugars, we know from excavated
examples that wicker was used to make the actual trough and we
figured that a similar basket would be ideally suited for our
purpose and indeed it proved very effective. There is no evidence to
support this but it was a practical solution to our problem."

The lack of evidence is a bit disappointing, but baskets have indeed
been used when brewing. "Mash sieves" or "hop sieves" are frequently
found in Swedish museums. They are shaped like short stretchers
(barrows) having a basket in the middle. They could be put across
the rim of a tub and could be filled with straw to improve the
straining. I cannot say for how long such sieves have been used, but
the basket is a frame (rib) basket, a technique that is rather old.

Jonas Hasselrot, Sweden
http://web.telia.com/~u85512368/

--- In SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com, "anxiousgamer"
<anxiousgamer@...> wrote:
>
> i am not sure of the ingredients yet. Probably grains/ ground
> hazelnuts.
>
> Ireland, Celt 500 ad.
>
> here is a site about what im looking at doing...
>
>
> http://mooregroup.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/the-archaeology-ireland-
> article/
>
> "The Experiment
>
> The stones were heated in a fire for roughly two hours. Step one
> involved transferring the heated stones into the trough using a
shovel.
> After 15 minutes we achieved our optimum temperature of 60-70c.
This
> temperature is easily identified by observing the surface of the
water.
> As the water heats it becomes thinner, the ripples subside and it
> becomes glassy and mirror still. The ideal temperature is when the
> clearest reflection can be seen. At this point we half submerged a
> wicker basket in the trough and began to add our barley in small
> amounts to prevent the mash from congealing. Over a period of 45
> minutes, maintaining a fairly constant temperature with the
addition of
> occasional heated stones (some of which were recovered from the
trough
> and reheated) our water transformed into a sweet, syrupy, workable
> wort. If we had decided to add milk, the resultant concoction
would be
> similar to modern day Horlicks or could have been served as
porridge or
> been used to make malt loaf."
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com, Marian Walke <marian@> wrote:
> >
> > anxiousgamer wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I want to make a brewing basket from 500 ad. I need any info
or help
> > > that i can get, I havent made a basket since i was a kid. I
want to
> > > make this as authentic as humanly possible. So any help at all
would
> > > be appreciated. It has to be submursed into hot water, and hold
> > > ingredients. So it has to be hardy.
> > > thanks.
> >
> > What kind of ingredients? Whole grains? ground-up stuff?
liquids? It
> > would make a difference in how close the weave has to be.
> >
> > --Old Marian
> >
>

anxiousgamer wrote:
>
>
> How many lbs makes a good size basket?
>
> Id like to practice too.. so any suggestions on how much i should order?
>

Maybe you should start with a good book on the subject, such as WILLOW
WORK, by Mary Butcher, 64 pages - soft cover, about $23.  It would
answer many of your questions.

--Old Marian

I was just going through old email (stuck in bed with 'flu), and thought it
might be useful to re-issue this email someone posted last year.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Elizabeth Ellis <weavedog91@...>
>Sent: Mar 24, 2007 5:27 PM
>To: SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [SCAbasketry] general tips for basket making
>
>Hi!
>  The first thing I would say is that when buying reed, you get what you pay
for.  Buy cheap reed, you'll end up throwing away about half the coil.  Of
course, you can pay too much as well (and notbody wants to do that!).  I'd
recommend surfing the different reed vendors to get a good idea of pricing.  As
far as tools are concerned, I've also found that specialty basketmaking tools
aren't required.  A flat head screwdriver, an awl, and clothespins work just
fine and are stronger than any tools I've bought that were specifically marketed
for basketmaking.  A bone (used for bookbinding/repair) is good for lifting and
packing.  You'll also want some good clippers (pruners work great).  You'll
develop some favorite sources - right now mine's Earth Guild (earthguild.com).
>
>  I'd also recommend taking a simple basketmaking class (one of those "how to
make an egg basket in one evening" things).  You'll learn the basics from the
instructor.  After that just get some good books and go from there - that's what
I did.  I've been weaving baskets since the latter part of the 1980's and the
two best books I've ever found are Robin Daugherty's "Splintwoven Baskets" and
Flo Hoppe's "Wicker Basketry".  Hoppe's second book "Contemporary Wicker
Basketry" has just been reissued, but I have not seen a copy yet.  Given how
good her first book was, my expectations are high for the second.
>
>  Hope this helps!
>  Corrinne
>
>
>deeksha shetty <dikkishe@...> wrote:
>          hi ,
>i am new member of this group.i want to begin with learning some generals tip
about basket making.i have not been to any classes for this, so i would love to
learn this from people here.
>thank you
>
>
>---------------------------------
>HereÂ’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


-Margaret
-----------------------------------------------------
Margaret Cochrane (quarterly sable and gules, two feathers fesswise argent)
Kappellenberg
Windmasters' Hill, Atlantia

How many lbs makes a good size basket?

Id like to practice too.. so any suggestions on how much i should order?


Aibell

Any of the Salix purpurea will serve your needs (i.e., traditional for
European and English baskets), but if you're just starting basketry, go
with the ones that have the slimmer rods.  Willow is more difficult to
manipulate than cane and reed and the slender rods are easier to work
with.  Willow weaving is hard enough on the thumbs even with the thin rods!

You might also look at Bonnie Gale's site, English Basketry Willows:
http://www.msu.edu/user/shermanh/galeb/index.htm

She has a catalogue of books for sale, some of which might be helpful to
you:
http://www.msu.edu/user/shermanh/galeb/wcatbook.htm


anxiousgamer wrote:
>
> They have tons of selections... which should i pick, which is more
> period?
> Aibell

--Old Marian

Based on the time period and location, the basket was most likely made from
willow.
There would be small spaces between the strands of willow to allow the water to
pass through, but a tightly woven willow basket would contain the grains, etc..
You might want to contact Bonnie Gale in NY -
http://www.msu.edu/user/shermanh/galeb/index.htm .
She weaves and sells willow, she's also English so is familiar with traditional
European willow basketry.
Happy weaving,
Angie Wagner
www.countryseat.com
angie@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Perhaps the reason a basket was used was that it was the "carrier" of
the yeast.

RE:  Re: Need Help=celtic brewing basketCommon Osier (Salix viminalis) was
certainly the commonly used willow in my part of the north of England. There is
an abandoned and overgrown Osiery near my home which is mostly viminalis.  This
is probably a good indication for the 1700s onwards, but before that, I am not
aware of any information on the specific species in use.  It is likely that
fresh green willow would have been stripped to remove the bark, as it would add
a very bitter flavour to the mash if it was left in place.  If you wanted to do
the experiment properly, you need to cut the willow just as the buds break and
the leaves come out in early Spring.  It is easier to strip the bark if you cut
the rods in midwinter, then stand them in a few inches of water and allow them
to grow for a few weeks until the leaves are out.  The bark will then be very
easy to remove with the back of a knife.

I've not heard of this usage of baskets before, I am a bit surprised as it would
be a lot simpler to do the mash in a wooden stave bucket and filter the
resulting wort through some felted or woven wool.  It would be a nice experiment
to try!

Most commercially available willow in the UK in modern times seems to be Salix
triandra, with smaller amounts of alba, variously crossed with fragilis and
purpurea.

Neil
www.basketassoc.org
www.basketmakersco.org




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They have tons of selections... which should i pick, which is more
period?
Aibell


--- In SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com, Marian Walke <marian@...> wrote:
>
> Margaret Cochrane wrote:
> >
> >
> > Willow in the context of British Isles basketmaking pretty much
always
> > means White Willow, which is not the American-native Black Willow
nor
> > the 19c. hybrid Weeping Willow, both of which are supposedly
inferior
> > for basketmaking. I've yet to find a source for White Willow in
the
> > southeastern US (I'm likely to order a tree for planting this
year, if I
> > find a source).
>
> Try contacting:
>
> Ron and Bobbie Harrison
> Willow Dreams Farm
> 970 Casey Fork
> Cook Road
> Edmonton, KY 42129
> 270-432-4486
> http://scrtc.com/~rharrison62/english.html
>
> They supply willow rods dried and ready for weaving as well as
cuttings
> for planting.  Cuttings are shipped normally December thru March
15th.
>
> Best of luck,
> --Old Marian
>

Do you know the Latin name for  white willow?  We sell a number of different
willows that are good for basket making, but I'm not sure which one you might be
looking for.  A good source for willows is Forest  Farm Nursery in Oregon.
   Jane Unger

Margaret Cochrane <margaretcochrane@...> wrote:
           Willow in the context of British Isles basketmaking pretty much always
means White Willow, which is not the American-native Black Willow nor the 19c.
hybrid Weeping Willow, both of which are supposedly inferior for basketmaking.
I've yet to find a source for White Willow in the southeastern US (I'm likely to
order a tree for planting this year, if I find a source).

-----Original Message-----
>From: Harry Goudie <luichart.woollens@...>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2008 5:15 AM
>To: SCAbasketry@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [SCAbasketry] Re: Need Help=celtic brewing basket
>
>I says in the text that a wicker basket was used and this means a basket
>made from willow. I think it would be able to withstand soaking in hot
>water for the times mentioned.
>Harry
>

-Margaret
-----------------------------------------------------
Margaret Cochrane (quarterly sable and gules, two feathers fesswise argent)
Kappellenberg
Windmasters' Hill, Atlantia







---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Margaret Cochrane wrote:
>
>
> Willow in the context of British Isles basketmaking pretty much always
> means White Willow, which is not the American-native Black Willow nor
> the 19c. hybrid Weeping Willow, both of which are supposedly inferior
> for basketmaking. I've yet to find a source for White Willow in the
> southeastern US (I'm likely to order a tree for planting this year, if I
> find a source).

Try contacting:

Ron and Bobbie Harrison
Willow Dreams Farm
970 Casey Fork
Cook Road
Edmonton, KY 42129
270-432-4486
http://scrtc.com/~rharrison62/english.html

They supply willow rods dried and ready for weaving as well as cuttings
for planting.  Cuttings are shipped normally December thru March 15th.

Best of luck,
--Old Marian

Most basketry in the British Isles (including Ireland) is willow basketry.
The varieties used are usually Salix triandra or Salix purpurea.  When we
talk about white willow we are usually referring to stripped willow.  Salix
Alba which is known as white willow is not really a popular basketry willow.
I think for the purpose that this basket is used then stripped willow would
be best as if the bark is left on then it might start to peel because of the
temperature of the liquid.  The most common willow available to the
basketmaker with the bark removed is known as Buff Willow which has been
boiled in order to remove the bark.  This would be my choice of material for
a brewing basket.
Harry