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Divination Classes at Pennsic   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #10892 of 10913 |
Re: SCA_Gypsy Divination Classes at Pennsic

Henry Best wrote:

> Marian,
>
> Your blanket statement surprises me. Are you suggesting that the Rom used
> different divinatory methods than the ones I listed? Please let me know what
> those are so I can give them attention. I feel like, in citing sortilege,
> natural omens, body examination, and intuitive systems, I've hit pretty much
> everything except hallucinogenics.

Good Doctor Best,

As near as evidence by description and art can provide, the Rom used to
read "hands", but not as in modern palmistry. There was no reading of
"life lines" or "heart lines", but a more holistic approach. A Gypsy
fortune teller would ask the client for a coin (preferably silver) and
hold it over the person's hand. And, as if the metal forged a bond
between the two hands (reader and client), information would flow into
the Gypsy's mind. I suspect the coin generally ended up with the Gypsy.

One of the common methods of engaging in fortune telling was to grab the
hand of a person encountered at a fair or on the street and insist on
telling the fortune then and there (complaints about this practice
exist). Later, Gypsies sometimes sold baskets of items they had
created, door-to-door, which gave them an excuse for grabbing the hand
of the farmwife, mistress, or maid, who answered the door. As you may
appreciate, none of these methods accommodated equipment such as crystal
balls, cards (Tarot or other), nor tables to lay them on.

The ONLY extant picture that I know of showing a Gypsy fortune teller
laying cards on a table for a reading for a well-dressed 16th century
woman, inside a tent, appears (from the art style) to be a Victorian-era
etching, probably an illustration for some historical novel, and
therefore of no research value at all. I have not been able to trace
its source yet.

Another factor in period Romany life was that their two most common ways
of life were either slavery (Romania, Moldavia, etc) or vagabondage,
neither of which seems likely to lead to acquiring much in the way of
permanent possessions. They didn't have those cute vardos to live in,
but traveled mostly on foot. They were among the poorest of the poor,
and in some areas of Europe still are.

Gypsies DID traffic in charms and amulets, especially those fashioned
from materials they could pick up without cost: parts of plants, bones,
whittled wood, feathers, etc. But this is not the same as divination.

It is interesting to me that although they use the charms and amulets
themselves (for protection against evil, to ward off disease, to gain
love or luck, etc.) and therefore clearly believe them to be of value,
they NEVER tell each other's fortunes.

This is a subject that I have researched in some depth. However, I can
tell you that everything I've said will be contradicted by some
"authority", so take it as it pleaseth you.

Old Marian (Puri Mariana, in Romani)



Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:42 pm

oldmarian
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Message #10892 of 10913 |
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Greetings, Having completed the Coxcomb Academy Project, I’m moving on to other things. I will be giving my SCA persona a going over, a scholar and...
Henry Best
fashoo_the_fool
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Jun 16, 2009
5:50 am

Hehehehe...you know you love us, Henry. ;-) Hopefully I'll see you this year at War. Thanks for posting this for us. Dulcinaya Greetings, Having completed the...
Gina Shelley
paintedwheel
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Jun 16, 2009
6:38 am

Dulcy! Hi sweetheart! I do indeed love you, but only backstage. Onstage, you're still the Black-Blooded Egyptian that tried to sell me the Turkey Wishbone of...
Henry Best
fashoo_the_fool
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Jun 16, 2009
3:21 pm

... To: SCA_Gypsy@yahoogroups.com From: henry@... Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:21:21 -0400 Subject: RE: SCA_Gypsy Divination Classes at Pennsic ...
Gina Shelley
paintedwheel
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Jun 16, 2009
4:02 pm

... Thank you, Doctor Best! The classes sound like a lot of fun, and I, too, would love to purchase class notes if you make them available for non-Pennsic...
Marian Walke
oldmarian
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Jun 17, 2009
2:49 pm

Thank you, Doctor Best! The classes sound like a lot of fun, and I, too, would love to purchase class notes if you make them available for non-Pennsic...
Henry Best
fashoo_the_fool
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Jun 18, 2009
2:25 pm

... Good Doctor Best, As near as evidence by description and art can provide, the Rom used to read "hands", but not as in modern palmistry. There was no...
Marian Walke
oldmarian
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Jun 18, 2009
4:41 pm

I actually am a hand grabber, but I don't do it to get people to come get their fortunes told. I do it when they've already approached me. It's amazing how...
Gina Shelley
paintedwheel
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Jun 18, 2009
4:48 pm

Marian, This is fascinating stuff. Thanks. I love the internet. We couldn't have this conversation without it. I doubt I will have the chance, in the near...
Henry Best
fashoo_the_fool
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Jun 18, 2009
7:57 pm
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