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#7160 From: R B <Catch_the_dragon@...>
Date: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:27 pm
Subject: Pepper vodka?
catch_the_dr...
Send Email Send Email
 
I recently went to a class taught by Thomas Handwerker about Baba Yaga.  That
sparked a discussion about vodka.  Since he is also a brewer, I asked him if he
knew about pepper vodka in period?  I have read about pepper vodka in spy
novels, nothing historical.  He had never heard of pepper vodka at all but he
was interested.

A quick search online revealed that pepper vodka is called petrovka or petrivka
and the several dozen online sources (which all seem to be cut and pasted from a
single wikipedia article) say it is Ukrainian, not Russian.  It is also unclear
about whether it is black pepper (capiscum nigrum? right? peppercorns worth more
than gold in period) or red pepper and honey or both types that are used.  I
really wanted to find a recipe but the only one I found was Alton Brown's recipe
that uses black pepper - hard to drink.  Best for cooking spicy foods.

The kind of red pepper that paprika is made from might have been used.  I will
do a more extensive search later.

Any thoughts on this?


-Lady Kalara Zrinyi.

#7161 From: "Amy Provost" <sparrowhawk9@...>
Date: Thu Sep 4, 2008 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: Pepper vodka?
sparrowhawk1970
Send Email Send Email
 
We make our own pepper vodka for making bloody mary's.  I use a combination of white/red/and black.
Never thought about period references though.  But you're right, it's hard to drink on its own!

Ameline

On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:27 PM, R B <Catch_the_dragon@...> wrote:

I recently went to a class taught by Thomas Handwerker about Baba Yaga. That sparked a discussion about vodka. Since he is also a brewer, I asked him if he knew about pepper vodka in period? I have read about pepper vodka in spy novels, nothing historical. He had never heard of pepper vodka at all but he was interested.

A quick search online revealed that pepper vodka is called petrovka or petrivka and the several dozen online sources (which all seem to be cut and pasted from a single wikipedia article) say it is Ukrainian, not Russian. It is also unclear about whether it is black pepper (capiscum nigrum? right? peppercorns worth more than gold in period) or red pepper and honey or both types that are used. I really wanted to find a recipe but the only one I found was Alton Brown's recipe that uses black pepper - hard to drink. Best for cooking spicy foods.

The kind of red pepper that paprika is made from might have been used. I will do a more extensive search later.

Any thoughts on this?

-Lady Kalara Zrinyi.




--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com

#7162 From: "McIsaac & Capnerhurst" <cageytlc@...>
Date: Thu Sep 4, 2008 8:52 pm
Subject: Soapwort shampoo
treasach_kelle
Send Email Send Email
 
I have a newborn so naturally I was up late watching infomercials.  One of them was Wen, the shampoo/conditioner with no bubble additive.  Checking out the ingredients http://www.wenhaircare.com/ingredients_pop.php , it's pretty much a cleanser (Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol), and the same glycerine, herbal extracts, and oils that we all use in potions, lotions, and creams.
 
So.  I have soapwort growing in my garden.  My question is how was soapwort used in period as a shampoo?  I know I've heard references to it.  Was it infusion in oil or water?  Do I have to distil it using my alembic?  (Just 'cause I can... heh.)  Could one in theory create a similar modern product using soapwort as the cleanser, with the conditioners added?  I have very long hair and really hate paying for shampoo and conditioner when I have all these ingredients at home.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Treasach

#7163 From: "Jennifer Heise" <jenne.heise@...>
Date: Thu Sep 4, 2008 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Soapwort shampoo
zajaczkowa
Send Email Send Email
 
Generally, I've heard, you soak /simmer the stems/leaves in warm
water, or soak and boil the roots, to get a soapy solution.
It's used by textile conservators, among others.  However, I'm not
sure about using it on babies; some books say it can be toxic when
taken internally, so you might want to research that.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM, McIsaac & Capnerhurst
<cageytlc@...> wrote:
> I have a newborn so naturally I was up late watching infomercials.  One of
> them was Wen, the shampoo/conditioner with no bubble additive.  Checking out
> the ingredients http://www.wenhaircare.com/ingredients_pop.php , it's pretty
> much a cleanser (Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol), and the same glycerine,
> herbal extracts, and oils that we all use in potions, lotions, and creams.
>
> So.  I have soapwort growing in my garden.  My question is how was soapwort
> used in period as a shampoo?  I know I've heard references to it.  Was it
> infusion in oil or water?  Do I have to distil it using my alembic?  (Just
> 'cause I can... heh.)  Could one in theory create a similar modern product
> using soapwort as the cleanser, with the conditioners added?  I have very
> long hair and really hate paying for shampoo and conditioner when I have all
> these ingredients at home.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Treasach
>

#7164 From: "Amy Provost" <sparrowhawk9@...>
Date: Thu Sep 4, 2008 9:05 pm
Subject: Re: Soapwort shampoo
sparrowhawk1970
Send Email Send Email
 
You would boil the roots down as a decoction.  I'm not sure off the top of my head about its use as a shampoo.  It was definitely used as a laundry cleaner (think bouncing bet and scrubbing action).
You must understand that you will NOT get the same sudsing action that you're used to by using this plant.

What I use is a decocted plant (perhaps chamomile, sage, calendula, peppermint, burdock root, etc) and mix 3 to 1 with liquid castile soap.  Still doesn't give you the same amount of suds, but definitely better than what you would get from soapwort.  This is also more liquid that what you are used to in a commercial product, but at least you know what's in it.

Distilling?  Damn, never thought of that.  I'm not sure.  If you experiment, let us know!
You definitely would not want to extract.  Saponins are water soluble.

Ameline

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM, McIsaac & Capnerhurst <cageytlc@...> wrote:

I have a newborn so naturally I was up late watching infomercials.  One of them was Wen, the shampoo/conditioner with no bubble additive.  Checking out the ingredients http://www.wenhaircare.com/ingredients_pop.php , it's pretty much a cleanser (Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol), and the same glycerine, herbal extracts, and oils that we all use in potions, lotions, and creams.
 
So.  I have soapwort growing in my garden.  My question is how was soapwort used in period as a shampoo?  I know I've heard references to it.  Was it infusion in oil or water?  Do I have to distil it using my alembic?  (Just 'cause I can... heh.)  Could one in theory create a similar modern product using soapwort as the cleanser, with the conditioners added?  I have very long hair and really hate paying for shampoo and conditioner when I have all these ingredients at home.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Treasach



--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com

#7165 From: "McIsaac & Capnerhurst" <cageytlc@...>
Date: Thu Sep 4, 2008 10:01 pm
Subject: Re: Soapwort shampoo
treasach_kelle
Send Email Send Email
 
Sudsing action is always added to commercial product, and it's just cosmetic.  As it were...  It doesn't actually add to cleaning power.  So I have no real need of it.
 
Castile soap can be used as a shampoo by itself, but a vinegar rinse is required after to take the residue off the hair.  Castile I already have, and I could already use it, but I'm hoping for something that only needs one step - like a soapwort base with the conditioners.
 
And how long before it goes bad?  And how strong a decoction?
 
Good thing I asked, though.  I thought it was just the dried leaves...
 
 
Treasach
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Soapwort shampoo

You would boil the roots down as a decoction.  I'm not sure off the top of my head about its use as a shampoo.  It was definitely used as a laundry cleaner (think bouncing bet and scrubbing action).
You must understand that you will NOT get the same sudsing action that you're used to by using this plant.

What I use is a decocted plant (perhaps chamomile, sage, calendula, peppermint, burdock root, etc) and mix 3 to 1 with liquid castile soap.  Still doesn't give you the same amount of suds, but definitely better than what you would get from soapwort.  This is also more liquid that what you are used to in a commercial product, but at least you know what's in it.

Distilling?  Damn, never thought of that.  I'm not sure.  If you experiment, let us know!
You definitely would not want to extract.  Saponins are water soluble.

Ameline

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM, McIsaac & Capnerhurst <cageytlc@telus.net> wrote:

I have a newborn so naturally I was up late watching infomercials.  One of them was Wen, the shampoo/conditioner with no bubble additive.  Checking out the ingredients http://www.wenhaircare.com/ingredients_pop.php , it's pretty much a cleanser (Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol), and the same glycerine, herbal extracts, and oils that we all use in potions, lotions, and creams.
 
So.  I have soapwort growing in my garden.  My question is how was soapwort used in period as a shampoo?  I know I've heard references to it.  Was it infusion in oil or water?  Do I have to distil it using my alembic?  (Just 'cause I can... heh.)  Could one in theory create a similar modern product using soapwort as the cleanser, with the conditioners added?  I have very long hair and really hate paying for shampoo and conditioner when I have all these ingredients at home.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Treasach



--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com


#7166 From: "Amy Provost" <sparrowhawk9@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:50 am
Subject: Re: Soapwort shampoo
sparrowhawk1970
Send Email Send Email
 
I've never had a shampoo go bad.  You could always add some oils, and some vitamin E oil as an extra preservative.  I've experimented, but never perfected an exact formula.  Soapwort does have some saponins in the leaves, but they are far more concentrated in the roots.  When I decoct, I boil until the water is about half the original volume.

Ameline

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 6:01 PM, McIsaac & Capnerhurst <cageytlc@...> wrote:

Sudsing action is always added to commercial product, and it's just cosmetic.  As it were...  It doesn't actually add to cleaning power.  So I have no real need of it.
 
Castile soap can be used as a shampoo by itself, but a vinegar rinse is required after to take the residue off the hair.  Castile I already have, and I could already use it, but I'm hoping for something that only needs one step - like a soapwort base with the conditioners.
 
And how long before it goes bad?  And how strong a decoction?
 
Good thing I asked, though.  I thought it was just the dried leaves...
 
 
Treasach
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Amy Provost
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Soapwort shampoo

You would boil the roots down as a decoction.  I'm not sure off the top of my head about its use as a shampoo.  It was definitely used as a laundry cleaner (think bouncing bet and scrubbing action).
You must understand that you will NOT get the same sudsing action that you're used to by using this plant.

What I use is a decocted plant (perhaps chamomile, sage, calendula, peppermint, burdock root, etc) and mix 3 to 1 with liquid castile soap.  Still doesn't give you the same amount of suds, but definitely better than what you would get from soapwort.  This is also more liquid that what you are used to in a commercial product, but at least you know what's in it.

Distilling?  Damn, never thought of that.  I'm not sure.  If you experiment, let us know!
You definitely would not want to extract.  Saponins are water soluble.

Ameline

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM, McIsaac & Capnerhurst <cageytlc@...> wrote:

I have a newborn so naturally I was up late watching infomercials.  One of them was Wen, the shampoo/conditioner with no bubble additive.  Checking out the ingredients http://www.wenhaircare.com/ingredients_pop.php , it's pretty much a cleanser (Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol), and the same glycerine, herbal extracts, and oils that we all use in potions, lotions, and creams.
 
So.  I have soapwort growing in my garden.  My question is how was soapwort used in period as a shampoo?  I know I've heard references to it.  Was it infusion in oil or water?  Do I have to distil it using my alembic?  (Just 'cause I can... heh.)  Could one in theory create a similar modern product using soapwort as the cleanser, with the conditioners added?  I have very long hair and really hate paying for shampoo and conditioner when I have all these ingredients at home.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Treasach



--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com




--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com

#7167 From: Beth Ann Bretter <ladypeyton@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: Pepper vodka?
ladypeyton
Send Email Send Email
 
I've never seen any reference to pepper vodka in all my cordial research but you
might want to try The Domostroi.  At the very least it's a starting point for
period slavic cooking.  There's also Food in Russian History and Culture by
Glants and Toomre which isn't a primary source, but I've heard it's a very good
reference.

Peyton

#7168 From: "Jennifer Heise" <jenne.heise@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pepper vodka?
zajaczkowa
Send Email Send Email
 
I think the closest thing you'd get would be 'water of pepper', made
by distilling pepper with grain beverage. I don't know if they made
such a thing but the Brits at least did make 'waters' of all the
spices they could get their hands on.

From John French's Art of Distillation, 1651:

"OILS ARE MADE OUT OF SEEDS THUS
Take of what seeds you please, bruised, two pounds. Of spring water
take twenty pints, let them be macerated for the space of 24 hours,
and then be distilled in a copper still with a worm or alembic with
its refrigerating. The oil extracted with the water, being separated
with a tunnel, keep the water for a new distillation.
This water after three or four distillations is a very excellent water
and better than is drawn any way out of that vegetable whereof these
are seeds; I mean for virtue though not always for smell.
After the same manner are made oils of spices and aromatical woods."

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Beth Ann Bretter <ladypeyton@...> wrote:
> I've never seen any reference to pepper vodka in all my cordial research but
> you might want to try The Domostroi. At the very least it's a starting point
> for period slavic cooking. There's also Food in Russian History and Culture
> by Glants and Toomre which isn't a primary source, but I've heard it's a
> very good reference.
>
> Peyton
>
>

#7169 From: "Kandy Fling" <elizabet@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Pepper vodka?
elizabet_mar...
Send Email Send Email
 

There are two different kinds of pepper.

Black (and white and green) peppercorns are piper nigrum, and period.  The pink ones are schinus terrbinthifolius.  Long pepper is piper longa.

Bell peppers, paprika, and all the hot chili peppers are types of capiscum, which is new world.  Yes, Paprika, which is often associated with Hungary, is capiscum annuum, originally new world.

From the Wikipedia entry, it looks like "Pepper Vodka" is made with capiscum peppers, and thus not period.

Grain based vodka is period, and it is feasible (as in they had all the ingredients) for there to have been vodka flavored with piper, but I haven't seen any references to that (not saying I've seen all the references there are, though).  It is, of course, a slippery slope to say "well they had this, and they had that..." and, anyway, it wouldn't be the "pepper vodka" you've seen in spy novels.


--- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, R B <Catch_the_dragon@...> wrote:
>
(Snip)

>
> A quick search online revealed that pepper vodka is called petrovka or petrivka and the several dozen online sources (which all seem to be cut and pasted from a single wikipedia article) say it is Ukrainian, not Russian. It is also unclear about whether it is black pepper (capiscum nigrum? right? peppercorns worth more than gold in period) or red pepper and honey or both types that are used. I really wanted to find a recipe but the only one I found was Alton Brown's recipe that uses black pepper - hard to drink. Best for cooking spicy foods.
>
> The kind of red pepper that paprika is made from might have been used. I will do a more extensive search later.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
>
> -Lady Kalara Zrinyi.
>


#7170 From: Ysabeau <lady.ysabeau@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: Pepper vodka?
austin_baebe
Send Email Send Email
 
I don't know about in period, but in general white pepper is more commonly used now in both Asia and Europe. When you go to restaurants it is white pepper that is on the table, not black pepper like we find here.
 
If I were to guess, I would use white pepper over red or black.
 
Ysabeau

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:

We make our own pepper vodka for making bloody mary's.  I use a combination of white/red/and black.
Never thought about period references though.  But you're right, it's hard to drink on its own!

Ameline

On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:27 PM, R B <Catch_the_dragon@...> wrote:

I recently went to a class taught by Thomas Handwerker about Baba Yaga. That sparked a discussion about vodka. Since he is also a brewer, I asked him if he knew about pepper vodka in period? I have read about pepper vodka in spy novels, nothing historical. He had never heard of pepper vodka at all but he was interested.

A quick search online revealed that pepper vodka is called petrovka or petrivka and the several dozen online sources (which all seem to be cut and pasted from a single wikipedia article) say it is Ukrainian, not Russian. It is also unclear about whether it is black pepper (capiscum nigrum? right? peppercorns worth more than gold in period) or red pepper and honey or both types that are used. I really wanted to find a recipe but the only one I found was Alton Brown's recipe that uses black pepper - hard to drink. Best for cooking spicy foods.

The kind of red pepper that paprika is made from might have been used. I will do a more extensive search later.

Any thoughts on this?

-Lady Kalara Zrinyi.




--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com



#7171 From: Dianna Haught <avacyn@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:27 pm
Subject: Lanolin
avecyn
Send Email Send Email
 
Some while back I found a two papers which document the use of lanolin in period for us.

Clark EW.
No Abstract
A brief history of lanolin.
Pharm Hist (Lond). 1980 Dec;10(3):5-6. No abstract available.
PMID: 11630744 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2:
Related Articles, Links
Jung L, Métais MC, Bachoffner P.
No Abstract
[Physico-chemical analysis of an ointment dating from the 13th-14th century]
Ann Pharm Fr. 1972 Mar;30(3):205-10. French. No abstract available.
PMID: 5050892 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Due to a move and a friend given to mishaps, I no longer have copies of either of these papers nor to a library loan system from which I can acquire them.  If anyone can get copies of these papers for me (I'm willing to pay reasonable library fees - not the 40/per paper or whatever Pubmed charges) and can get a copy of these papers, I'd really appreciate it.


Secondus:  I may be getting my hands on 5 pounds of very greasy heritage Shetland wool.  I'd love to try extracting some of the lanolin from the wool in such a way that I can keep the lanolin.  (Part herbalist project/part sheep to shawl project/part SCA 50's Challenge/part this lady is crazy as loon project).  The only method that I know of involves weighting the wool down in a pot of very warm water and skimming the lanolin as it rises to the top.  But I don't have documentation for this.  Does anyone know of any documented methods of extracting lanolin from wool or any good sources. 

The controversy in medieval usage of lanolin is that it is often referred to as "sheep's grease" which lead some people to believe that they were referrring to the fat of the sheep and not the lanolin because they said that lanolin couldn't be documented as being used in period.  I've solved to my satisfication that it was, now if I can only get my hands on these papers once again.  Sigh.
Thank you.
Avacyn
English doesn't just borrow words from other languages.  It follows them down dark alleys, hits them over the head with old beer bottles and rummages through their pockets for loose grammar.

#7172 From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:48 pm
Subject: Re: White Pepper
carowynsilve...
Send Email Send Email
 
 
Greetings,
 
>Black (and white and green) peppercorns are piper nigrum, and period.  The pink ones are schinus terrbinthifolius.  Long pepper is piper longa.
 
I'd been told long ago that the white peppercorns were actually some form of poison ivy, so I've been avoiding them.  Of course, I didn't research this while I was at work....
 
What's the real scoop?
 
-Carowyn


____________________________________________________________
Why not be a nutritionist? Get your degree fast. Click here!


#7173 From: "Jennifer Heise" <jenne.heise@...>
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: Re: White Pepper
zajaczkowa
Send Email Send Email
 
*White* peppercorns are the same fruit as black peppercorns, but they
are allowed to ripen more, and stripped of their black outer coating.

There is a 'pink' peppercorn that comes from another plant, which may
be the one your informant was thinking of:
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Schi_ter.html

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
>>Black (and white and green) peppercorns are piper nigrum, and period.  The
>> pink ones are schinus terrbinthifolius.  Long pepper is piper longa.
>
> I'd been told long ago that the white peppercorns were actually some form of
> poison ivy, so I've been avoiding them.  Of course, I didn't research this
> while I was at work....
>
> What's the real scoop?
>
> -Carowyn
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Why not be a nutritionist? Get your degree fast. Click here!
>

#7174 From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
Date: Sat Sep 6, 2008 2:07 am
Subject: Re: Re: White Pepper
carowynsilve...
Send Email Send Email
 
Greetings,

> There is a 'pink' peppercorn that comes from another plant, which
> may be the one your informant was thinking of:
> http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Schi_ter.html

Ahhhhhh, thank you!!  That makes sense - white berries in this area are
often poisonous, therefore the association.  I'll look that up next week
at work, thanks much!

-Carowyn
____________________________________________________________
Criminal Lawyers - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oGdgjeudScgPDQg0dF4VRkcVef9n5\
ST84MVNJK5b4k87K4k/

#7175 From: "Doug" <Sergiusb@...>
Date: Sat Sep 6, 2008 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: Pepper vodka?
Sergiusb@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Stoli's used to make it, and it was sort of like drinking at your favorite Greek burger/wimpies/chili burger place. Escpecially good on cold winter nights.

#7176 From: jeannie <jeannie_radcliffe@...>
Date: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:05 pm
Subject: Herbal Spagyrics
jeannie_radc...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,
Just in case anyone is interested, not period but all information can be adjusted
paracol <paracol@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hello all
Just
a reminder for those who may be interested about our next 7 day class
in October in Herbal spagyrics, Qabala and the Cycles of life held at
our residence here in Bendigo, Australia

http://homepages. ihug.com. au/~panopus/ prima.htm


Jeannie & Rik


#7177 From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
Date: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:42 pm
Subject: Herbal Remedy?
carowynsilve...
Send Email Send Email
 
Greetings,

Is there an herbal remedy / preventative to those darn humongous
millipedes?  I'm tired of being ambushed!  (The big ones with all the big
wiggly legs!  Could be actually classified as centipedes, I'm not getting
close enough to count legs!)

-Carowyn (close encounter in a friend's house last night, scared the
bejeebers outta me!  Hate that!!)
____________________________________________________________
Are you Catholic and single?  Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oGxtIpod12NKODDFPjYAtVWBJD9eK\
9p0nGMKoRDpG4w0u0U/

#7178 From: "barclayoms" <derrydown@...>
Date: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:29 pm
Subject: Re: Lanolin
barclayoms
Send Email Send Email
 
Greetings, Avacyn!
I was just talking with a friend about sheep-shearing today, and then
I saw your question about extracting lanolin.  I wish I could find you
an actual medieval document, instead of an actual farm woman who
shears sheep!  My father, until this year, always kept several sheep
for the meat, but decided that they were too much for him to deal
with, as he is 84.  He gave his little flock to the woman who shears
them, which she used to do for free because he gave her the wool as
barter.  Back the subject, she boils the cut wool for a few hours in
water that has quite a bit of salt in it, which helps separate out
more grease.  The grease will float to the top and is skimmed off.
That will be pretty dirty.  You put the dirty lanolin in a container
with water and some other oil and shake it really well.  I thought of
using an old crank and paddle butter churn we used to have somewhere.
  The water and oil will pick up all the dirty bits, and the white
lanolin will be in one layer between them.  So that's just how it's
done, which I'm sure is exactly how it's been done since the two sheep
came off the Ark.

A funny anecdote.  About two weeks after we got rid of the sheep,
there was a big thunderstorm at night.  Not long after, I heard the
sound of sheep baa-ing past my window.  In the morning, I found that
the sheep all came home, with a few of Mimi's sheep, and one very
large billy goat.  The storm spooked them and must have made them
homesick.  How they found their way down two miles of two dirt roads
in the pitch dark, I'll never know.  They must have been a sight!

Els von der Birkenweide


--- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, Dianna Haught <avacyn@...> wrote:
>
> Some while back I found a two papers which document the use of
lanolin in period for us.
>
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11630744?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PE\
ntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>Clark
EW.
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11630744?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PE\
ntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>
> No Abstract
>
> A brief history of lanolin.
> Pharm Hist (Lond). 1980 Dec;10(3):5-6. No abstract available.
> PMID: 11630744 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> 2:
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&DbFrom=pubmed&Cmd=Link&LinkN\
ame=pubmed_pubmed&LinkReadableName=Related%20Articles&IdsFromResult=5050892&ordi\
nalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>\
Related
Articles, Links
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5050892?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEn\
trez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>Jung
L, Métais MC, Bachoffner P.
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5050892?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEn\
trez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>
> No Abstract
>
> [Physico-chemical analysis of an ointment dating from the 13th-14th
century]
> Ann Pharm Fr. 1972 Mar;30(3):205-10. French. No abstract available.
> PMID: 5050892 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
> Due to a move and a friend given to mishaps, I no longer have copies
of either of these papers nor to a library loan system from which I
can acquire them.  If anyone can get copies of these papers for me
(I'm willing to pay reasonable library fees - not the 40/per paper or
whatever Pubmed charges) and can get a copy of these papers, I'd
really appreciate it.
>
>
> Secondus:  I may be getting my hands on 5 pounds of very greasy
heritage Shetland wool.  I'd love to try extracting some of the
lanolin from the wool in such a way that I can keep the lanolin.
(Part herbalist project/part sheep to shawl project/part SCA 50's
Challenge/part this lady is crazy as loon project).  The only method
that I know of involves weighting the wool down in a pot of very warm
water and skimming the lanolin as it rises to the top.  But I don't
have documentation for this.  Does anyone know of any documented
methods of extracting lanolin from wool or any good sources.
>
> The controversy in medieval usage of lanolin is that it is often
referred to as "sheep's grease" which lead some people to believe that
they were referrring to the fat of the sheep and not the lanolin
because they said that lanolin couldn't be documented as being used in
period.  I've solved to my satisfication that it was, now if I can
only get my hands on these papers once again.  Sigh.
> Thank you.
> Avacyn
> English doesn't just borrow words from other languages.  It follows
them down dark alleys, hits them over the head with old beer bottles
and rummages through their pockets for loose grammar.
>

#7179 From: "Amy Provost" <sparrowhawk9@...>
Date: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:31 pm
Subject: Re: Herbal Remedy?
sparrowhawk1970
Send Email Send Email
 
Hmm, I've never seen them much out of the compost pile.  I think they like moist environments, so I guess the question is what is it inside the house that attracted them in the first place.  Any leaking faucets or excess moisture in the bathroom or around windows?  They're actually a good bug in the right places.
No herbal remedies that I'm aware of, sorry.

Ameline

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...> wrote:


Greetings,

Is there an herbal remedy / preventative to those darn humongous
millipedes? I'm tired of being ambushed! (The big ones with all the big
wiggly legs! Could be actually classified as centipedes, I'm not getting
close enough to count legs!)

-Carowyn (close encounter in a friend's house last night, scared the
bejeebers outta me! Hate that!!)
__________________________________________________________
Are you Catholic and single? Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oGxtIpod12NKODDFPjYAtVWBJD9eK9p0nGMKoRDpG4w0u0U/




--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com

#7180 From: Dianna Haught <avacyn@...>
Date: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:46 am
Subject: Re: Re: Lanolin
avecyn
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you.  The only difference I've heard in the process is from a woman who
said to put the wool in a very large "jelly bag" to boil and the dirt is
strained out during the cooking.   I think she meant to make a bag out of that
loose woven muslin used to strain jelly. (?)  I'd love to be able to document
this.

Love your sheep story.  I want so bad to keep a few Angora goats, but my
landlord just won't go for it.  Of course that may have to do with the fact that
my house has very little yard....  Or maybe he just doesn't like goats. 
hehehehe
Avacyn

>Greetings, Avacyn!
>I was just talking with a friend about sheep-shearing today, and then
>I saw your question about extracting lanolin.  I wish I could find you
>an actual medieval document, instead of an actual farm woman who
>shears sheep!  My father, until this year, always kept several sheep
>for the meat, but decided that they were too much for him to deal
>with, as he is 84.  He gave his little flock to the woman who shears
>them, which she used to do for free because he gave her the wool as
>barter.  Back the subject, she boils the cut wool for a few hours in
>water that has quite a bit of salt in it, which helps separate out
>more grease.  The grease will float to the top and is skimmed off.
>That will be pretty dirty.  You put the dirty lanolin in a container
>with water and some other oil and shake it really well.  I thought of
>using an old crank and paddle butter churn we used to have somewhere.
> The water and oil will pick up all the dirty bits, and the white
>lanolin will be in one layer between them.  So that's just how it's
>done, which I'm sure is exactly how it's been done since the two sheep
>came off the Ark.
>
>A funny anecdote.  About two weeks after we got rid of the sheep,
>there was a big thunderstorm at night.  Not long after, I heard the
>sound of sheep baa-ing past my window.  In the morning, I found that
>the sheep all came home, with a few of Mimi's sheep, and one very
>large billy goat.  The storm spooked them and must have made them
>homesick.  How they found their way down two miles of two dirt roads
>in the pitch dark, I'll never know.  They must have been a sight!
>
>Els von der Birkenweide
>
>
>--- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, Dianna Haught <avacyn@...> wrote:
>>
>> Some while back I found a two papers which document the use of
>lanolin in period for us.
>>
>>
><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11630744?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.P\
Entrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>Clark
>EW.
>>
><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11630744?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.P\
Entrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>
>> No Abstract
>>
>> A brief history of lanolin.
>> Pharm Hist (Lond). 1980 Dec;10(3):5-6. No abstract available.
>> PMID: 11630744 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>> 2:
>>
><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&DbFrom=pubmed&Cmd=Link&Link\
Name=pubmed_pubmed&LinkReadableName=Related%20Articles&IdsFromResult=5050892&ord\
inalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum\
>Related
>Articles, Links
>>
><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5050892?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PE\
ntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>Jung
>L, Métais MC, Bachoffner P.
>>
><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5050892?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PE\
ntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>
>> No Abstract
>>
>> [Physico-chemical analysis of an ointment dating from the 13th-14th
>century]
>> Ann Pharm Fr. 1972 Mar;30(3):205-10. French. No abstract available.
>> PMID: 5050892 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>>
>> Due to a move and a friend given to mishaps, I no longer have copies
>of either of these papers nor to a library loan system from which I
>can acquire them.  If anyone can get copies of these papers for me
>(I'm willing to pay reasonable library fees - not the 40/per paper or
>whatever Pubmed charges) and can get a copy of these papers, I'd
>really appreciate it.
>>
>>
>> Secondus:  I may be getting my hands on 5 pounds of very greasy
>heritage Shetland wool.  I'd love to try extracting some of the
>lanolin from the wool in such a way that I can keep the lanolin.
>(Part herbalist project/part sheep to shawl project/part SCA 50's
>Challenge/part this lady is crazy as loon project).  The only method
>that I know of involves weighting the wool down in a pot of very warm
>water and skimming the lanolin as it rises to the top.  But I don't
>have documentation for this.  Does anyone know of any documented
>methods of extracting lanolin from wool or any good sources.
>>
>> The controversy in medieval usage of lanolin is that it is often
>referred to as "sheep's grease" which lead some people to believe that
>they were referrring to the fat of the sheep and not the lanolin
>because they said that lanolin couldn't be documented as being used in
>period.  I've solved to my satisfication that it was, now if I can
>only get my hands on these papers once again.  Sigh.
>> Thank you.
>> Avacyn
>> English doesn't just borrow words from other languages.  It follows
>them down dark alleys, hits them over the head with old beer bottles
>and rummages through their pockets for loose grammar.
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
>and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
>information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
>
>Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
>Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
>[Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]Yahoo!
Groups Links
>
>
>
English doesn't just borrow words from other languages.  It follows them down
dark alleys, hits them over the head with old beer bottles and rummages through
their pockets for loose grammar.

#7181 From: "Rickard, Patty" <rickarpa@...>
Date: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:54 pm
Subject: RE: Herbal Remedy?
pattyrickard
Send Email Send Email
 

You don’t have to count legs. Just count how many on each segment. If there are 4/segment it’s a millipede – herbivore, no problem. If it’s a centipede, though (2 legs/ segment), it’s carnivorous & might bite. Some people swear by hedge apples (Osage orange Maclura pomifera), but I’ve not noticed them to be particularly effective here.

 

From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carowyn Silveroak
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:42 PM
To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Herbal Remedy?

 


Greetings,

Is there an herbal remedy / preventative to those darn humongous
millipedes? I'm tired of being ambushed! (The big ones with all the big
wiggly legs! Could be actually classified as centipedes, I'm not getting
close enough to count legs!)

-Carowyn (close encounter in a friend's house last night, scared the
bejeebers outta me! Hate that!!)
__________________________________________________________
Are you Catholic and single? Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oGxtIpod12NKODDFPjYAtVWBJD9eK9p0nGMKoRDpG4w0u0U/


#7182 From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
Date: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:28 am
Subject: Re: Herbal Remedy?
carowynsilve...
Send Email Send Email
 
 
Greetings,
 
>Hmm, I've never seen them much out of the compost pile.  I think they like moist environments, so I guess the question is what is it inside the house that attracted them in the first place. 
 
They've suddenly popped up since the post-hurricane deluge, over at least a 2-shire area.  And they're BIG - one lady told me of one about 6-7 INCHES (!!!) in her house.  And they're coming from basements that are generally damp, but they're now prowling the houses looking for more prey.
 
Normally I'm not squeamish, but having one suddenly appear about 2" away from one's body is enough to have me scraped from the ceiling.....
 
Well, then I'll try the "standard" lavender & pennyroyal, and see what happens.  Tea tree oil, too.....
 
>They're actually a good bug in the right places.
 
For some reason, arthropods of all stripes find me incredibly tasty, so when it comes to a particular perimeter, I'd prefer not to have a "live and let live" policy....it turns very quickly into a "chomp chomp chomp why doesn't she taste any better after the seventh try?" policy....
 
>You don’t have to count legs. Just count how many on each segment. If there are 4/segment it’s a millipede – herbivore, no problem. If it’s a centipede, though (2 legs/ segment), it’s carnivorous & might bite.
 
Centipede, then.  This was definitely the carnivorous / take-a-chomp-outta-Carowyn type. 
 
>Some people swear by hedge apples (Osage orange Maclura pomifera), but I’ve not noticed them to be particularly effective here.
 
Might be the soil - ours work pretty well against spiders.  Luckily we have 2 trees nearby, and I'll be driving past them tomorrow, I think I'll snag a few....
 
(As an aside, I almost pitched a full hissy fit on my cousin a few years back.  She's highly allergic to latex, and most of the family (not me) went for a post-Thanksgiving walk to avoid tryptophan poisoning, picked up a few hedge apples....by the time she got back the rash was quite extensive.  So I told her to drop the apples and Get In Here so I could scrub her to death, it was funny to a very stratified Penna Dutch family to watch a woman half the age of most everyone there to be ordering her about, scolding her terribly, and she took it very meekly.....hee hee.....)
 
-Carowyn


____________________________________________________________
Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity!


#7183 From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
Date: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:49 pm
Subject: For Someone With Money.....
carowynsilve...
Send Email Send Email
 
....wish I could afford it.....

-Carowyn


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it
em=350089478088
____________________________________________________________
Need cash? Click to get an emergency loan, bad credit ok
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mKmy7Iu1vFWRGI72GdtUCCPJcLFCR\
Rxa2KWGejZRiKnn2k8/

#7184 From: Marian Walke <marian@...>
Date: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:14 pm
Subject: Re: For Someone With Money.....
oldmarian
Send Email Send Email
 
Carowyn Silveroak wrote:

> ....wish I could afford it.....
>
> -Carowyn
>
> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& ssPageName= STRK:MEWAX:
> IT&it
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it>
> em=350089478088

It's evidently gone.  What was it?

--Old Marian

#7185 From: Kirk Spencer <kspencer30720@...>
Date: Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:12 am
Subject: Re: For Someone With Money.....
kspencer30720
Send Email Send Email
 
The link is wrapped - you'll have to cut and paste.  That said:
===
"Apothecary Jars. Pharmaceutical Pottery and Porcelain in Europe and the East, 1150-1850, with a Glossary of Terms used in Apothecary Jar Inscriptions"

By Rudolf E.A. Drey. Published by Faber and Faber: 1978.

This scholarly study includes chapters on Italy, England, France, the Low Countries, Spain & Portugal, Germany & Austria, Switzerland, Denmark & Sweden, and China. The supplemental section on inscriptions also explains what each remedy was used for, which is an interesting study in itself.

Hardcover. 6.5"x10", 249 pages, 8 color plates and 96 black & white illustrations, dust jacket. Jacket torn at the top of the spine and a slight tear on the rear panel, paper a bit toned, else in very nice condition indeed.
===
Bid as of the moment I'm pasting this is $350.

Kirklin

----- Original Message ----
From: Marian Walke <marian@...>
To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:14:27 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] For Someone With Money.....

Carowyn Silveroak wrote:

> ....wish I could afford it.....
>
> -Carowyn
>
> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& ssPageName= STRK:MEWAX:
> IT&it
> <http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& ssPageName= STRK:MEWAX: IT&it>
> em=350089478088

It's evidently gone. What was it?

--Old Marian



#7186 From: "Laurel" <aisinbiya@...>
Date: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:18 pm
Subject: Headaches in period?
aisinbiya
Send Email Send Email
 
Do period sources ever mention headaches or migraines?  Was pain
something that medieval europeans paid any sort of attention to?  What
did they do to help reduce it?

#7187 From: "Amy Provost" <sparrowhawk9@...>
Date: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:07 pm
Subject: Re: Headaches in period?
sparrowhawk1970
Send Email Send Email
 
There's documented evidence of the Romans actually drilling holes through the skull to relieve pressure caused by continual migraines.  I don't recall such evidence being found after that period of such drastic surgery though.  In period, I believe white willow would have been the preferred pain reliever, followed by opiates for severe cases.  Hildegard used a poultice of vinegar and opium.

Ameline

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Laurel <aisinbiya@...> wrote:

Do period sources ever mention headaches or migraines? Was pain
something that medieval europeans paid any sort of attention to? What
did they do to help reduce it?




--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com

#7188 From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
Date: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:50 pm
Subject: RE: Headaches in period?
storm85213
Send Email Send Email
 
Perhaps I can slip out of my lurker state to contribute about the Romans, which is my research area. The drilling of holes in the head is called trephaning and was wide spread through the world, first by scraping the bone down to nothing, or using a chisel to remove a section of the bone, to using a specialist circular saw blade. Sometimes the bone could be replaced afterwards. The technique was used to release pressure from inside the skull and to ease drainage. Bone fragments were also removed from the brain to treat a skull fracture. Since there usually wasn't much in the way of anesthetic, imagine the pain of having your scalp cut open, then hearing the sound and feeling the vibrations of the technique while awake! Yuck. As to opiates for pain killers, some Roman doctors did subscribe to it's use. However, one standard treatment for headaches, including migraines, was to disolve an opiate in some wine with honey, then soak a piece of bread in the solution (or suspension?). The soaked piece of bread was then worn as a hat! No kidding. As I understand it much, if not all, medieval medicine was based on medicine of the Roman Empire. It is probably better to sit down with some wine and poppyseed bagel and relax your way out of the headache than be a breadhead.
Jack


To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
From: sparrowhawk9@...
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:07:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Headaches in period?

There's documented evidence of the Romans actually drilling holes through the skull to relieve pressure caused by continual migraines.  I don't recall such evidence being found after that period of such drastic surgery though.  In period, I believe white willow would have been the preferred pain reliever, followed by opiates for severe cases.  Hildegard used a poultice of vinegar and opium.

Ameline

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Laurel <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
Do period sources ever mention headaches or migraines? Was pain
something that medieval europeans paid any sort of attention to? What
did they do to help reduce it?





--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com


Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. Learn Now

#7189 From: Dianna Haught <avacyn@...>
Date: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: Headaches in period?
avecyn
Send Email Send Email
 
Lavender was traditionally used for sinus headaches.  It works very well, unless....

One year for our anniversery I'd thought I'd be all cutesy and romantic and spread our bed with lavender blossoms.  Turns out husband is allergic and spent the next three days zonked out on antihistimines.  Not romantic.  Poo.

Otherwise, lavender oil applied to the forehead for sinus related headaches.
Avacyn

There's documented evidence of the Romans actually drilling holes through the skull to relieve pressure caused by continual migraines.  I don't recall such evidence being found after that period of such drastic surgery though.  In period, I believe white willow would have been the preferred pain reliever, followed by opiates for severe cases.  Hildegard used a poultice of vinegar and opium.

Ameline

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Laurel <aisinbiya@...> wrote:

Do period sources ever mention headaches or migraines? Was pain
something that medieval europeans paid any sort of attention to? What
did they do to help reduce it?




--
www.crookedwall.org
www.bthumbstudios.com

English doesn't just borrow words from other languages.  It follows them down dark alleys, hits them over the head with old beer bottles and rummages through their pockets for loose grammar.

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