Thank you so much. I THINK I'm going to use the fully-lined method you
described first. I don't buy fabric anyplace but Walmart - because it's
$1.00 a yard, because I can't afford more than that, and because I have
difficulty getting around to other stores. So, even fully-lined, it
won't get too expensive for me. Thanks for describing the method so
well.

Desi

I'm looking for information & pics of period clergy attire. Any links
or book titles would be a great help.

Thanks so much!

Marsaili

I came across a site that described how to make patterns, a few weeks ago. It
went into the mathematics and geometrics of pattern making. Alas, I have lost
the site. Does anyone know of this site and guide me to it? I believe patterns
can be done completely with mathematics and not the guess work of trial and
error to get a certain slope or line. Such as, the line of a peascod belly,
there must be a place to lay the 1/4th waist measurement, the scribe an arc to
get the drop, ect.

Lahbruinn


---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Was it this?
http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_patterndraft.htm

Or found at this site (scroll down to 'Costume Patterns,'
and 'Costume Construction')?
http://costume.dm.net/

Only sites I can think of at the moment which might fill the bill.

Yseult the Gentle


--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Larry Laudenslager <sewmantoo@y...>
wrote:
> I came across a site that described how to make patterns, a few
weeks ago. It went into the mathematics and geometrics of pattern
making. Alas, I have lost the site. Does anyone know of this site and
guide me to it? I believe patterns can be done completely with
mathematics and not the guess work of trial and error to get a
certain slope or line. Such as, the line of a peascod belly, there
must be a place to lay the 1/4th waist measurement, the scribe an arc
to get the drop, ect.
>
> Lahbruinn
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
>  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ah-ha.  Likelier this one?
http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/math/index.shtml
Yseult

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Larry Laudenslager <sewmantoo@y...>
wrote:
> I came across a site that described how to make patterns, a few
weeks ago. It went into the mathematics and geometrics of pattern
making. <<<snipped>>>
> Lahbruinn
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
>  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What is typical of French embroidery? What item or style can you look at and
say "Oh, that's so French"?

I'm not too worried about period at this point, anything in the Middle Ages
or Renaissance is good.

Samia

Aumonieres.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of J. May
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:54 PM
To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SCA-Garb] French Embroidery


What is typical of French embroidery? What item or style can you look at and
say "Oh, that's so French"?

I'm not too worried about period at this point, anything in the Middle Ages
or Renaissance is good.

Samia




Helpful email addresses:
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Desideria Liberati di Norcia wrote:

>OK. Now we've identified the gown, and I'm back to my original
>question - the sleeve. What is it called, and where can I find a
>pattern that will help me re-create it? I'm totally enamoured of this
>sleeve and I'm determined to have it. Please help me if you can. :^)
>
>


I think the shape is called "mahoitered", and that there is a full
description of how it's done (not the puffs but the shape) in Janet
Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_.

--
Adele de Maisieres

-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------

I can't get this webpage to come up for me at all. Not even just
http://www.semptress.org


--------
Lady Ælfwyn
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/14thcenturygarb/join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cheapandeasygarb/join
----- Original Message -----
From: "borderlands15213" <borderlands15213@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 5:25 PM
Subject: [SCA-Garb] Re: patterns


> Ah-ha.  Likelier this one?
> http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/math/index.shtml
> Yseult
>
> --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Larry Laudenslager <sewmantoo@y...>
> wrote:
>> I came across a site that described how to make patterns, a few
> weeks ago. It went into the mathematics and geometrics of pattern
> making. <<<snipped>>>
>> Lahbruinn
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! for Good
>>  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Helpful email addresses:
>  Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Main group web page:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005
>
>

You left out an "s"

http://www.sempstress.org/


Brangwyne
-------Original Message-------

From: Ælfwyn
Date: 10/02/05 15:01:46
To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Re: patterns

I can't get this webpage to come up for me at all. Not even just
http://www.semptress.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's coming on to hunting season if anyone wants I probably can supply some deer
or elk bones.
Jody (Isabella) in Vancouver

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I sure have thought of this "making the best use of the fabric" as I'm
creatively cutting to outfit 4.
Isabella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mylady, thank you the first one was the one remembered. Unfortunately the second
one is unfounded.

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:37:32 -0000
From: "borderlands15213"
Subject: Re: patterns

Was it this?
http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_patterndraft.htm

Or found at this site (scroll down to 'Costume Patterns,'
and 'Costume Construction')?
http://costume.dm.net/

Only sites I can think of at the moment which might fill the bill.

Yseult the Gentle


--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Larry Laudenslager
wrote:
> I came across a site that described how to make patterns, a few
weeks ago. It went into the mathematics and geometrics of pattern
making. Alas, I have lost the site. Does anyone know of this site and
guide me to it? I believe patterns can be done completely with
mathematics and not the guess work of trial and error to get a
certain slope or line. Such as, the line of a peascod belly, there
must be a place to lay the 1/4th waist measurement, the scribe an arc
to get the drop, ect.
>
> Lahbruinn
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:25:04 -0000
From: "borderlands15213"
Subject: Re: patterns

Ah-ha. Likelier this one?
http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/math/index.shtml
Yseult

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Larry Laudenslager
wrote:
> I came across a site that described how to make patterns, a few
weeks ago. It went into the mathematics and geometrics of pattern
making. <<>>
> Lahbruinn
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:53:45 -0500
From: "J. May"
Subject: French Embroidery

What is typical of French embroidery? What item or style can you look at and
say "Oh, that's so French"?

I'm not too worried about period at this point, anything in the Middle Ages
or Renaissance is good.

Samia



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 00:49:11 -0500
From: "Talia"
Subject: RE: French Embroidery

Aumonieres.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of J. May
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:54 PM
To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SCA-Garb] French Embroidery


What is typical of French embroidery? What item or style can you look at and
say "Oh, that's so French"?

I'm not too worried about period at this point, anything in the Middle Ages
or Renaissance is good.

Samia




Helpful email addresses:
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello again fellow stitchers,

This time my question is: What is quintessential Middle German embroidery?
Especially for decorating clothes.

Samia

I am sorry, I was not finished as I tried to get into the subject lne and it was
sent, Twice.
As I said thank you Yseult the Gentle, this was the one I remembered but
unfortunately the second one is no longer found at it's address. Also, thanks
you for the seamstress site, it will help me when I make the female version to
my current project.

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:37:32 -0000
From: "borderlands15213"
Subject: Re: patterns

Was it this?
http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_patterndraft.htm

Or found at this site (scroll down to 'Costume Patterns,'
and 'Costume Construction')?
http://costume.dm.net/

Only sites I can think of at the moment which might fill the bill.

Yseult the Gentle


http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/math/index.shtml



---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I rented the 1998 film "Elizabeth"
I love the late tudor that Cate Blanchette wore in the beginning of
the film. I watched further and saw he realy nice back side lacing.
This is the part where Elizabeth is introduced, dancing court dances
in a field.
What dance are they dancing anyway, looks fun.
Does that lacing run the whole length of the back panel of the
dress? It is pretty as well as functional.
I was just trying to figure out how to get in and out of it. It is a
light blue velvet and darker blue taffeta looking skirt. The sleeves
look airy. Would that have been done for a summer dress, comfort in
warm weather? It takes place in the summer, i think.
She has no false sleeves, ther is nice thin gauze, from just below
elbow to wrist almost and have floral embriodery is this period? If
it is i want to try it in silk embriodery. Would the chemise have
these sleeves attached to it or the dress? Maybe a short sleeved
chemise, or fitted sleeve chemise?
A few chapters later...
There is another part where Blancette is waiting nervously of news
of her sister and then the ring of state is delivered by Lord
Sussex. This dress is cream and green with puffs at the shoulders
and a fitted sleeve to the wrist.
Are the sleeves part of the dress or a decorated chemise again?
Well I hope someone can help, got the  period fabric just sketchy on
constuction? Don't want to cut till I know.
Wanting to Sew Soon,
Mairin

I've started putting together my persona and need to make new cloths.
My current uniform is a simplicity pattern, which has done well so
far, but I'd like to get a bit more into it.  My persona is a German
carpenter form around the 1420's.  I've been looking online but
without much luck.  If anyone knows of a few resources I can look into
I'd be very grateful.

Jon

You're very welcome  :-)

For that second site, try a less direct route: Google "Elizabethan
Costuming Page" and when you get there---should be pretty much the
first result of *many,* as quite a few other sites have links to some
portion or other of Mistress Drea's site---have a look through.
Mistress Drea's "The Elizabethan Costuming Page" is huge and it's
awesome.

Yseult the Gentle

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Larry Laudenslager <sewmantoo@y...>
wrote:
> I am sorry, I was not finished as I tried to get into the subject
lne and it was sent, Twice.
> As I said thank you Yseult the Gentle, this was the one I
remembered but unfortunately the second one is no longer found at
it's address. Also, thanks you for the seamstress site, it will help
me when I make the female version to my current project.
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:37:32 -0000
> From: "borderlands15213"
> Subject: Re: patterns
>
> Was it this?
> http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_patterndraft.htm
>
> Or found at this site (scroll down to 'Costume Patterns,'
> and 'Costume Construction')?
> http://costume.dm.net/
>
> Only sites I can think of at the moment which might fill the bill.
>
> Yseult the Gentle
>
>
> http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/math/index.shtml
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
>  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Couple of quick things, when looking at the costumes for this film, the
director was looking for the "blue jean" version of their clothing-not
exactly what he was looking for but there are elements that are left
out of the costumes, like over sleeves and such- I think he thought the
Elizabethan era was too formal-, there are a few of the costumes that
are right on, but to tell you which ones, I'd have to sit down and
watch it again and since they took one of the most melodramic eras in
history and made it even more so, I just can't bare to watch it.

Anyway, you question about back lacings, they occur on the bodice back
only, not the full skirt, with a small openning/split in the skirt
panel to facilitate getting in and out of it.

Typically, a chemise had chemise sleeves, not another, outer layer
attached to them.   Which is not to say an outer layer had to match the
garment that it was laced to.  If you want to check out embroidered
smock or chemise sleeves that showed, look for a painting of I believe
Helena Snakenborg.

The last gown you mention, I belive that Simplicity put out a pattern
based on that gown.  There are various websites that can tell you how
to make the pattern a little more historically correct, but it's not a
bad starting point.

alex

--- Mairin O Cadlah <butterfly164_2002@...> wrote:

>  .
> Does that lacing run the whole length of the back panel of the
> dress?

> She has no false sleeves, ther is nice thin gauze, from just below
> elbow to wrist almost and have floral embriodery is this period? If
> it is i want to try it in silk embriodery. Would the chemise have
> these sleeves attached to it or the dress? Maybe a short sleeved
> chemise, or fitted sleeve chemise?
> A few chapters later...
> There is another part where Blancette is waiting nervously of news
> of her sister and then the ring of state is delivered by Lord
> Sussex. This dress is cream and green with puffs at the shoulders
> and a fitted sleeve to the wrist.
> Are the sleeves part of the dress or a decorated chemise again?
> Well I hope someone can help, got the  period fabric just sketchy on
> constuction? Don't want to cut till I know.
> Wanting to Sew Soon,
> Mairin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>

At 09:14 AM 3/10/2005, you wrote:
>Hello again fellow stitchers,
>
>This time my question is: What is quintessential Middle German embroidery?
>Especially for decorating clothes.
>
>Samia

Samia,

There is a fair bit of  info and pictures of German embroidery. Can you be
more specific about the time periods you are interested in?

Cheers,
Jane


------------------------------------
Jane Stockton - jane_stockton@...
Barony of Mordenvale, Kingdom of Lochac

In Prayse of the Needle - http://needleprayse.webcon.net.au/ (personal website)
Historical Needlework Resources - http://medieval.webcon.net.au/ (resource
website)
The Needles' Excellency - http://www.laren.blogspot.com/ (blog)

Larry Laudenslager wrote:

> I am sorry, I was not finished as I tried to get into the subject lne
> and it was sent, Twice.
> As I said thank you Yseult the Gentle, this was the one I remembered
> but unfortunately the second one is no longer found at it's address.
> Also, thanks you for the seamstress site, it will help me when I make
> the female version to my current project.

Holy moly! I'm getting a server error, not a "this web page ain't here"
error. Sounds like they're having server problems. I hope she gets this
back up. It's one of my favorite sites!

Margaret Northwode

The period is towards the tail end of 'International Gothic', as it is called by
art historians.  While there are regional variations, clothing as depicted in
art really has a similar look across the whole of Europe.

Try the Artcyclopedia; they've got a 'tour' of the northern renaissance that may
well give you some names of artists useful for your search.  Certainly will give
you useful terms relating to how German art historians refer to the period of
art.

Good luck, & come back with any more questions if you get a little more focussed
on your research.

Ann in CT

> I've started putting together my persona and need to make new clothes.
> My current uniform is a simplicity pattern, which has done well so
> far, but I'd like to get a bit more into it.  My persona is a German
> carpenter form around the 1420's.  I've been looking online but
> without much luck.  If anyone knows of a few resources I can
> look into
> I'd be very grateful.
>
> Jon

> What is typical of French embroidery? What item or style can you look
> at and say "Oh, that's so French"?

I'd recommend taking a look at
http://medieval.webcon.net.au/loc_france.html for some French
embroideries -- you can get a good overall look by starting at
http://medieval.webcon.net.au/index.html and going through by the
various periods.

A lot of the finely tent-stitched bed-valances of the 16th century are
thought to be French (or, in some cases, English or Scottish but
imitating French imported goods).  The only two which I can recall off
the top of my head are T.137-1991 and T.125-1913 at the V&A -- see
http://images.vam.ac.uk to look them up.

As Talia mentioned, there are the aumônières (alms-purses) thought to
have been embroidered in France; here are some links to a few of them:
http://www.doctorbeer.com/joyce/emb/almpouch/almpouch.htm
http://www.musee-moyenage.fr/pages/page_id18222_u1l2.htm

(However, they aren't all French; this example comes from early 14th
century Germany: http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI07906d13a.jpg )

Karen

Samia also asked:

> This time my question is: What is quintessential Middle German
> embroidery? Especially for decorating clothes.

Jane's right; a lot of the answer to this question depends on what you
mean by "Middle German," both in terms of time period and, well, what
you consider to be "German."  There's an abstract geometric style that
comes up in bags and ecclesiastical garments and things that comes up
in medieval Westphalia that's *completely* different from the whitework
hanings and polychromatic narratives that we see in Lower Saxony around
the same time.  Analyzing one style as more or less "quintessentially
German" is gonna make your brain hurt. ;)

Again, Jane's website -- http://medieval.webcon.net.au/loc_germany.html
for starters -- is a good place to look at some styles and examples.
Thanks to Bildindex, there's a ton of black & white pictures of extant
pieces online, but you gotta really look.

Just to focus on links relating to styles for secular clothing and
dress accessories (of which, really, there isn't much extant today,
both due to the general paucity of extant secular embroidery as well as
bombing runs in WWII which apparently lacked the ability to distinguish
between "foes" and "nifty but flammable medieval embroideries"):

There's a photo of a nifty embroidered band (which may, I think, have
been intended for a garment) from the 12th or 13th centuries:
http://home.earthlink.net/~wymarc/asoot/band/band2.jpg

The geometric Westphalian style described above has more information
online at http://home.earthlink.net/~wymarc/asoot/west.htm

In the 16th century, there are a ton of styles that come up --
beadwork, whitework, smocking, blackwork, etc.; here, Portraiture Is
Your Friend, especially in terms of looking at which styles were used
on which parts of which sorts of garments.  German publishers did good
business in needlework pattern-books ("modelbuch"); many of these
patterns would be eminently suitable for garments of the same time
period.  And modern-day publishers have been putting out reprints of
these books, too: some to look for include "German Renaissance Patterns
for Embroidery: A facsimile copy of Nicolas Bassée's New Modelbuch of
1568" and "Needlework Patterns from Renaissance Germany: Designs
recharted by Kathryn Newall from Johan Sibmacher's Schön Neues
Modelbuch 1597."

There are several more styles, but they (IMHO) were not as likely to
have been used in secular garments, but rather on wall-hangings,
ecclesiastical stuff, etc.  On the other hand, I've just done up a pair
of embroidered sleeves for a kirtle in a Germn style that I haven't
seen in anything *but* 14th-16th century wall-hangings, and the project
seems to have turned out pretty spiff so far; so I don't have a
tremendous problem with adapting stylistic inspiration from non-garment
styles for clothing projects ;) but since the question focused on
styles used for "decorating clothes," that's the question I answered in
this posting.  Mostly. ;)  With some prattling on and on ... <grin>

Karen

Jon asked:

> My persona is a German carpenter form around the 1420's. I've been
> looking online but without much luck. If anyone knows of a few
> resources I can look into I'd be very grateful.

Have you looked at the Mendel Hausbuch?  There are some illustrations
from that at http://homepage.univie.ac.at/rudolf.koch/mendel/m_inh.htm
-- including men engaged in various carpentry-related trades in the
1420s.

I'd also recommend looking at the garments of workmen in illustrations
of the construction of the Tower of Babel, as they're frequently
depicted as contemporary workmen (rather than consciously attempting to
make them look like they're from the ancient world).  The closest I can
think of (in terms of finding one that could reflect your persona) is
the one in the Bedford Hours:
http://www.wga.hu/html/m/master/bedford/buil_bab.html
But there are several other Babel illustrations from around that time
period as well:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/image?L=08100226&I=000135
http://gallica.bnf.fr/image?L=08100052&I=000006
http://gallica.bnf.fr/image?L=08100143&I=000010
http://gallica.bnf.fr/image?L=08100130&I=000006
etc.

What you're looking at, for the most part, will be a hood, tunic or
(generally unfitted) cote, hose, and (presumably, though they don't
seem to be visible to us) a white linen shirt and white linen braies of
some sort underneath.  Thursfield's "Medieval Tailor's Assistant" can
be one place to start with patterns for all of the above -- or, of
course, you can look in the clothing section of
http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks (if you'd like specific
link-recommendations, I can point you towards some useful ones). :)

Karen

I'm sorry I know we've discussed this over and over and also for the
cross-post. Where are some links for instructions on how to make these?
aureal

Greetings, my name is Celestria.  I am considering being from the late
13th-early 14th century (c. 1300), but I would really like to see some
garb from that era.  From what I have gathered, women's garb consisted
of several things: the form-fitting cotehardie, plain and heraldic,
and the sideless surcoat.  Something I have not been able to find is
whether or not gowns still had enormous, bell-shaped sleeves.  I have
seen pictures that have them and some that do not.  Is it possible
that some women still wore them and they were still relatively in
fashion?  Basically, I need everything you can give me.  Photos are
WONDERFUL and links are good too.  Thanks for any help you can give.

OK...I've been digging and looking through the web for articles on Italian
woman's garb in the 1200s.  I've found lots on Italian Ren garb, and lots on
13th Century garb in England.  But nothing specifically on Italian 13th
century.  (The persona I'm developing is from central Italy (Perugia), second
half of the century.)

I have one outfit that isn't a true representation but is inspired by Madonna &
Child by Guido de Siena:
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/guido/index.htm
My dress can be seen here:
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aworlds_media/ibase_1/00/06/25/00062500_000.jpg

Anyone have any other avenues for me to follow?

Anpliça Fiore
=============
"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own."
-Ben Sweetland



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Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Celestria wrote:

> I am considering being from the late 13th-early 14th century (c.
> 1300), but I would really like to see some garb from that era.

Is there any specific region which interests you?  As always, you might
want to look at the Atlantian A&S links; there's sections for 13th &
14th century clothing at
http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=319
-- as well as 13th & 14th century jewelry at
http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=983
... you can also take a look at 13th & 14th century re-enactment groups
at
http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=353

Some illos to look at ... hmm.  I'd start with looking at the Manesse
Codex (from the first half of the 14th century) -- you can view the
illos at http://www.manesse.de/manesse0-9.shtml and pages linked from
there.

You could also look around at http://www.wga.hu -- it's got a good
collection of frescoes by Italian artists working around 1300, and I'd
especially point you towards Giotto at
http://www.wga.hu/html/g/giotto/index.html and Duccio at
http://www.wga.hu/html/d/duccio/buoninse/index.html

For a look at what's being worn in England, there's the Queen Mary
Psalter; I can't find a good site that has lots of illos but if you do
a Google Images search, you can find a few of the illustrations from
it.

I'm not sure which style of sleeve you mean by "bell-shaped."  There's
a style which seems to come up more frequently towards the 12th & 13th
centuries which is fitted down to about the wrist, and then has a long
pendant bit that extends downward from the wrist.  It doesn't seem to
come up as often c. 1300, though later in the 14th century, there
starts to be more sleeve-funkiness (another style of pendant sleeves c.
1360, and then "tippets," and then the various styles we associate with
houppelandes in the late 14th & 15th centuries).

Keep your eye out for funky & interesting headwear from c. 1300, too;
not just wimples & veils, but "coffee-filter" hats, hairnets, etc. :)

Well ... hopefully that'll be a good set of links to get you started
... :)

Karen

What area of Europe?
From the sound of things, you have a hodge podge of different areas in mind.
For starters you can go here
http://www.wga.hu/index1.html
Click on a letter and it will take you to artist whose names start with that
letter.
They are noted with birth and date, plus roughly what region/area.
Browse through and get an idea of the look you are looking for. Note, take
religious and allegorical paintings with a 1/4 cup o' salt

A

-----Original Message-----
Greetings, my name is Celestria.  I am considering being from the late
13th-early 14th century (c. 1300), but I would really like to see some
garb from that era.  From what I have gathered, women's garb consisted
of several things: the form-fitting cotehardie, plain and heraldic,
and the sideless surcoat.  Something I have not been able to find is
whether or not gowns still had enormous, bell-shaped sleeves.  I have
seen pictures that have them and some that do not.  Is it possible
that some women still wore them and they were still relatively in
fashion?  Basically, I need everything you can give me.  Photos are
WONDERFUL and links are good too.  Thanks for any help you can give.