heck.. *I* have magpie syndrome..
i would add beads to anything!
but a hand sewn, hand finished, beautiful T Tunic..
with cheesy 60s type trim with daisies on it?
Kirsten
kirsten@...
http://www.fabricdragon.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Thallas" <hardcorps@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] pet peeve


>   It's another version of Magpie eye - and a big reason why lots of things
> (like Irish gowns and cyclaseseses) get decorated that shouldn't.  All
that
> nekkid fabric just doesn't "feel" right to us, so SOMETHING has to go on
> there, even if it was better left alone...<G>
>
> Liadain
>
> > i have just been reminded of one of my pet peeves.
> >
> > i have seen some lovely garb, t tunics mostly..
> > all hand sewn! some with over sewn seams...
> > and then they put a tacky pre made cheesy, not even good quality trim on
> it
> > i could just cry
> >
> > it would be better PLAIN than with stupid trim that looks like the
dollar
> > rack at JoAnns on it!
> > heck, either get GOOD trim, or hand finish it with embroidery, or leave
it
> > alone!
> > Kirsten
> > kirsten@...
> > http://www.fabricdragon.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to the main group page:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to the main group page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Yep, very well could be that too.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kirsten Houseknecht
   To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:48 AM
   Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Access denied message, was fabric sale/search


   my hubby says another thing that can cause this is.....
   if MY server, thinks YOUR server is sending spam.
   that is, if your server, not you.. has been noted as a source of spam it
   might be "blocked"
   Kirsten
   kirsten@...
   http://www.fabricdragon.com

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "kls" <soleil_verte@...>
   To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:24 PM
   Subject: [SCA-Garb] Access denied message, was fabric sale/search


   > Access denied usually means one of a few things -- the mailbox being sent
   to is full and thus not accepting; you're trying to send an attachment that
   is over the maximum; or the intended recipient's mail server is offline.
   Those are generally the most common.
   >
   > Alitea
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: Kirsten Houseknecht
   >   To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
   >   Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:53 AM
   >   Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] fabric sale/search
   >
   >
   >   huh??
   >   i have no clue why........
   >   i will have my hubby check on it (he is the computer guru)
   >
   >   my home phone number is 215 634 0419
   >
   >   Kirsten
   >   kirsten@...
   >   http://www.fabricdragon.com
   >
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: "Muirgheal ui Ogain" <Muirgheal@...>
   >   To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
   >   Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:28 PM
   >   Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] fabric sale/search
   >
   >
   >   > Kristen, I hvae tried to email you twice regarding purchasing some of
   the
   >   > wool but I amgetting an access denied message from your server. .
   .ehh????
   >   >
   >   > Muirgheal
   >   > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:57:54 -0400, SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com wrote:
   >   >
   >   > >  15 yards or so per bolt, last i checked..
   >   > >  i have several bolts
   >   > >  if you buy a bolt, 4 bucks a yard
   >   > >  if you make me cut it, 6 bucks a yard
   >   > >  Kirsten
   >   > >  kirsten@...
   >   > >  http://www.fabricdragon.com
   >   > >
   >   > >  ----- Original Message -----
   >   > >  From: "Greg and Dianne Stucki" <goofy1@...>
   >   > >  To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
   >   > >  Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:30 PM
   >   > >  Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] fabric sale/search
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >  > How much is on the bolts of green, and how much are you asking?
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  > Alisone
   >   > >  > ----- Original Message -----
   >   > >  > From: "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten@...>
   >   > >  > To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>; <SCAbyzantine@yahoogroups.com>;
   >   > >  > <Norsefolk@yahoogroups.com>
   >   > >  > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:34 PM
   >   > >  > Subject: [SCA-Garb] fabric sale/search
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  > > please forgive the cross post!
   >   > >  > > i just bought a large amount of fabric, and need to sell
   some...
   >   > >  > > i ALSO am looking for advice on what to make out of some of
   it!!!
   >   > and
   >   > >  i
   >   > >  > am
   >   > >  > > looking for some fabric.......
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > i have:
   >   > >  > > several bolts of very light weight hunter green wool.  like a
   skirt
   >   > >  > weight.
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > a bolt of purple wool, same weight
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > two bolts of heraldic red wool, same weight
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > a bolt of true blue wool, same weight
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > a bolt of 100% silk taffetta!  very heavy and a bit stiff, in a
   >   green
   >   > so
   >   > >  > > dark as to look black.
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > a bolt of middle dark grey silk, in a "sueded silk" type,
   heavy...
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > a bolt of very tightly woven beige silk
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > a bolt of cut velvet, in a tudor or jacobean style pattern.
   black.
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > some heavy weight white cotton, light enough to make clothes,
   but
   >   > heavy
   >   > >  > > enough not to see through.
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > also i have but am not selling, need to make garb with..
   several
   >   > hunks
   >   > >  of
   >   > >  > > "tapestry" fabric in beiges and greens.
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > i NEED to find some light weight white wool!!!!
   >   > >  > > and some hunter green Linen.........
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > also anyone know of any green cotton or linen in ultra light
   >   chemise
   >   > >  > weight?
   >   > >  > > Kirsten
   >   > >  > > kirsten@...
   >   > >  > > http://www.fabricdragon.com
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > Community email addresses:
   >   > >  > >   Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >   > >  > >   Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > Shortcut URL to the main group page:
   >   > >  > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
   >   > >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  > >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  > Community email addresses:
   >   > >  >   Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >   > >  >   Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  > Shortcut URL to the main group page:
   >   > >  >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
   >   > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
   >   > >  >
   >   > >  >
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >  Community email addresses:
   >   > >    Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >   > >    Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >   > >
   >   > >  Shortcut URL to the main group page:
   >   > >    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
   >   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
   >   >
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   >
   >   >
   >   >
   >   >
   >   >
   >   > _______________________________________________________
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   >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<snort>
i would love to raise heritage sheep.. many of them have GREAT wool..
(some breeds even shed their wool naturally, you dont clip them)
but i live in a row home.
i dont even have room for a loom.

and as for hand sewing? HAH!
(i have nerve damage in my right arm, its why i dont make garb anymore for a
living)
i only do hand sewing usually for my RITUAL garb, not for camp wear.

personally i think stretch velvet is vastly under-rated.........
but i wont wear poly when i am at a camping event, i am terrified of fire.

polyester and other "plastics" will melt and stick to the skin if they
catch... the burns are a ton worse.  i have too many medical friends to
ever.. EVER.. wear poly to an event with open fires......
Kirsten
kirsten@...
http://www.fabricdragon.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <ivinian@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:47 AM
Subject: [SCA-Garb] Dualistic thinking (was Re: garb and period)


> I think it'd be totally cool to weave my own fabric, but one thing
> that dismays me is that some people (definitely not you, dear
> Kirsten, but I've seen it way too much and so wish to bring this up)
> really do have some kind of dualistic thinking about trying to
> be "period" with garb. It's like if you DO use pins, nice needles,
> sewing machines, etc., that the Garb Ladies will curse you and you're
> not (said with a slight sniff) "period".
>
> Either you sew it all by hand using authentic, period tools, from
> fabric you wove yourself and dyed from period recipes, from wool you
> spun/span yourself, cut from sheep you raised yourself on food sheep
> ate in the period you're working from (and they better be REALLY
> authentic sheep.. none of these big modern breeds, here)... or you
> might as well go out and make a spandex Xena costume and not bother
> trying! It's either or, with no middle ground.
>
> I'm all for authenticity in garb, but let's try not to look down our
> noses at people who find the modern conveniences pleasant to use, or
> those who like to try to do it as authentic as possible given their
> resources. We all exist along a happy continuum.
>
> YIS,
> Aoda
>

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Stella" <hecaba@i...> wrote:

> Illuminations from the early period show only side gores, usuallyfour in total
- two on the right and two on the left. Women's dressesalso have side gores only
and as such were not very full.<



Stella, can you point me to more details about these illuminations?The things
I've looked at (primarily The Life of Edward theConfessorand the Manesse Codex)
pretty much don't show gores *at all*near asI can tell...  I'd love to see this
evidence.

Speaking of which...  "The Life of Edward the Confessor" manuscript is dated to
1250, but the events it portrays are of course from roughly 200 years earlier. 
Whi

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten@f...> wrote:



> also anyone know of any green cotton or linen in ultra light chemise weight?



You might take a look at phoenix (http://www.fabric.com) - they just got in a
bunch of linen and I think had some green in the "lightweight" section.  It's a
bit pricey ($6.85/yd, IIRC) but you might get a price break if you take the
whole lot of it off their hand.

Alianor

-
>
> If you would like, you can contact me privately at
> aspasiamoonwind@...  I have documentation
> and period pictures.  I also exchange info with
> other Rom by e-mail and snail mail.  One in
> Atlantia, sent me a Russian Gypsy/English
> dictionary.
Yes I want to talk. A Russian Gypsy/english
dictionary. Droll.

Please contact me privately. I use this address for list only.  I would prefer
to not accidentally miss your e-mail.  I don't check this one daily & delete
strings.  You can get me at aspasiamoonwind@...  (*AspasiaGet more from
the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow! if this IS by the lady that did the WoNA gown and underlings i will
certainly buy it. My dad does ACW stuff so I happily bought that gown .
.there may be a halloween costume in there for one of these days. (I DONT
allow garb at my halloween parties, this years theme is cheesy 80s rock
stars Im gonna be Adam Ant:))
Also along those line I also recently bought the victorian riding coat
pattern to make for this winter. Totally cool pattern, looks great. Not OUR
period, but good period clothes. Hooray for simplicity for raising the bar,
if just a little

Muirgheal
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:39:13 EDT, SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>  This must be new-I can't get the number to come up on the Company's
Website.
>  ::pout::
>  I believe that this is the same person who designed a truly to die-for
War of
>  Northern Aggression  gown and underpinnings.
>  Yep-I couldn't resist. At 1.99, I got them all. Just owning them brings
out
>  the Southern in me (as if it ever left).
>  Someday....
>  I would very much like to see that pattern.
>  Gee, now there is a ready-made excuse for stopping by the fabric store on
my
>  way home tomorrow night.
>  What a pity.0:-)
>
>  Roscelin
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>  Community email addresses:
>    Subscribe:    SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>    Unsubscribe:  SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Shortcut URL to the main group page:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb
>
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>





_______________________________________________________
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And received, and drooled over. *thank you*!!!!!

Catherine of Dubh Ard
Cathi in Chilliwack BC
ICQ# 4227964

"Librarians are the secret masters of the universe. They control all the
information. Don't piss them off!" - Spider Robinson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Thallas" <hardcorps@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Blackwork hankies


>   Incoming momentarily......
>
> Liadain
>
> > Liadain, do you have this book right now? If you do could you possibly
> scan
> > the picture and send it to me? At my home addy 1vixen828 @home.com?
> > I'm really not sure if I'm going to get the books I've requested in time
> to
> > use them for documentation
> >
> > Catherine of Dubh Ard (at work!)
> > Cathi in Chilliwack BC

*groaning*

Okay... lurker is de-lurking here. :)

I purchased two of the Past Patterns sets--the Basic Tunic and
Cotehardie/Sideless Surcoat pattern.

Am I the *only* one who opened those things up and thought that I
needed an engineer to figure out what lines to cut on? Yikes!

Can anyone reccomend a better pattern company? I mean, I'm a pretty
experienced seamstress... but for the finished garments that would
come out, it seems that the patterns were just way too complicated.
I can't even imagine one of the more complex later-period patterns!

Just a de-lurking gripe... back into lurk mode now. ;)

-Laura

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten@f...> wrote:
> polyester and other "plastics" will melt and stick to the skin if
they
> catch... the burns are a ton worse.  i have too many medical friends
to
> ever.. EVER.. wear poly to an event with open fires......
> Kirsten

I hate to be even more morbid (and yet, I will go ahead anyway
<grin>), but I remember being reminded as a teenager to always wear
natural-fiber garments and underclothes when travelling on an airplane
or a train... the idea being that in the event of a crash, I might
have a small chance of surviving better if my clothes didn't melt into
me during the ensuing fire.

Marcele

How about some stuff that is not Hollywood?  What is
the take on Black Adder I & II and the Cadfael series?
Or the Ivanhoe miniseries?

Just asking,
Alanna

--- Frank Thallas <hardcorps@...> wrote:
>   Bwaaaaa-hahahahaaaaaaa.  You have been
> assimilated.  Resistance is Futile.
> Your pod will arrive in 4-6 weeks, 4th class mail.
> <GGGGGG>
>     BTW, beware the costuming in pretty much all
> Hollywood movies - the
> costumer is going for an effect, or to make a
> statement (In "Braveheart",
> the statement seems to be "Hey, I'm Scottish, and I
> can moon without
> dropping trow...") or for stage-dressing (witness
> all the strange blue
> outfits in "First Knight" rather than historical
> accuracy - but the effect
> is what they're paid for.
>
> Liadain
>
> > What have you all done to me?!?!?! I've been on
> this list for about 2
> weeks now and you've all altered my view on things.
> >
> > Let me explain... LAst evening I finished the body
> of my gown by
> handstitiching, which appears to have been EASIER
> then machine sewing it...
> This morning I'm thinking of trim to go on it and
> the over gown and keep
> coming back to the point that I need to relearn
> emborodery because I don't
> want it to be typical.. and wouldn't a small amount
> of vines or flowers that
> is handstitched on it, look so much more... elegant
> and more perioid!?!?
> Then I find myself at the movie store this
> afternoon, and what am I drawn
> to... not action.. not thriller, but movies based in
> period, because I want
> to see what kind of gowns they're wearing and see if
> I want one like it or
> if it's even period to begin with. *glares in mock
> annoyance at the list*
> >
> > On that note... Anyone see Quills yet? I almost
> got it, but wasn't sure if
> it would be ok to watch in a house with a child,
> though he's pretty
> oblivious most of the time. The bodice on the front
> was nice... though
> rather late and I do believe out of period... Any
> good period movies with
> nice garb in them?? I've got Rob Roy (I adore the
> bodice and embordery on it
> (On his wife)), Braveheart... Mists and a handful of
> others, but I don't
> think anything comes close to being overly period in
> the rest of them... ;-)
> Almost got Princess Bride, so I could look at his
> garb (evil prince dude)
> and see if any of it would appeal or fiance... or if
> any would even work.
> >
> > Seriously debating on suggesting Middle Eastern to
> fiance, since the men
> wore pants   (right?) and so on.. don't know if
> he'll got for it. Would mean
> research for me, since it's an area I've never
> looked at before.. but I hear
> the female garb is so comfy.. hehehe..
> >
> > I'm babbling.. Got to finish the seams on the
> underdress and start looking
> at the measurements for the overdress...
> >
> > Brightest Blessings,
> > Caillech Brigte
> >
> > Oh.. did I forget to say thank you for whatever
> you've done to me?? I like
> it... it's just being rather obvious right now..
> hehe.
>
>
>
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__________________________________________________
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Hey I've got that trim! And on my daughters sundress it looks gorgeous. But
a tunic? <shudder> I don't think so!

Catherine of Dubh Ard 9who went with a wool/gold thread braid for trim, no
daisies on our tunics!)
Cathi in Chilliwack BC
ICQ# 4227964

"Librarians are the secret masters of the universe. They control all the
information. Don't piss them off!" - Spider Robinson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] pet peeve


> heck.. *I* have magpie syndrome..
> i would add beads to anything!
> but a hand sewn, hand finished, beautiful T Tunic..
> with cheesy 60s type trim with daisies on it?
> Kirsten
> kirsten@...
> http://www.fabricdragon.com
>

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Greycat Designs" <greycatdesigns@y...> wrote:

> I purchased two of the Past Patterns sets--the Basic Tunic and
> Cotehardie/Sideless Surcoat pattern.
>

Ooooh.  Just wait until you try to sew them.  First, they only have
two gores.  Second, the suggested layout gets you bias strech in all
the wrong places.  Third, who on earth has boobs where their pattern
places them!!!  I ended up having to hand stich EVERYTHING after I
had attempted to put the damn thing together on the machine.  The
final result (after extensive remodeling!!) isn't bad, but the
shoulder seams are a little too far forward due to moving the
bustline and taking in the neckline to compensate.  Next time I'm
going to draft my own.

This is the pattern I used for my garb which is my first attempt at
authenticity which I posted a link to a few days ago.

Never again.

Cat
www.catgarb.0catch.com

That was probably an 'urban myth, Marcele, but a harmless one.  Came out of the
need to feel you could at least do Something to improve your situation.  In the
days whe i would have been told that, planes were largely prop affairs, and
would've burned to a crisp before anyone had time to worry about their undies! 
Recently had a patient who 'stop, drop, and rolled' on synthetic carpet.  Don't
go there, ok?

Carolle


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===========
Jen Funk Segrest
very big Design
http://www.verybigdesign.com

Well, my first experience with an "authentic" pattern was Period Pattern's late
German one. I'll tell ya, for someone who at the time didn't sew AT ALL, and
didn't have a dressmaker's dummy, it was nearly impossible for me to figure that
thing out. The instructions were terrible! Not only that, but I found the sizes
printed on the back to be completely different than what they were supposed to
be. Basically, I ended up wearing the dress once and after getting a lot of
strange looks I cut it up and used the fabric in something else. That was 5
years ago and I've only just started trying to sew again. This time, I really
haven't been using patterns but pretty much just trying to fly by the seat of my
pants and do all the fitting on my dressmaker's dummy.

Alitea
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Greycat Designs
   To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:12 AM
   Subject: [SCA-Garb] Past Patterns


   *groaning*

   Okay... lurker is de-lurking here. :)

   I purchased two of the Past Patterns sets--the Basic Tunic and
   Cotehardie/Sideless Surcoat pattern.

   Am I the *only* one who opened those things up and thought that I
   needed an engineer to figure out what lines to cut on? Yikes!

   Can anyone reccomend a better pattern company? I mean, I'm a pretty
   experienced seamstress... but for the finished garments that would
   come out, it seems that the patterns were just way too complicated.
   I can't even imagine one of the more complex later-period patterns!

   Just a de-lurking gripe... back into lurk mode now. ;)

   -Laura


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know about the basic tunic pattern but I can tell you that the
surcoat/cotehardie one is a pain. I've made it, I remodeled it I probably
won't make it again. I ended up with a skirt and sleeve way too long and a
very strange bump in the back (I don't have boobs there!) . The
documentation is good though.

Catherine of Dubh Ard
Cathi in Chilliwack BC
ICQ# 4227964

"Librarians are the secret masters of the universe. They control all the
information. Don't piss them off!" - Spider Robinson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greycat Designs" <greycatdesigns@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:12 AM
Subject: [SCA-Garb] Past Patterns


> *groaning*
>
> Okay... lurker is de-lurking here. :)
>
> I purchased two of the Past Patterns sets--the Basic Tunic and
> Cotehardie/Sideless Surcoat pattern.
>
> Am I the *only* one who opened those things up and thought that I
> needed an engineer to figure out what lines to cut on? Yikes!
>
> Can anyone reccomend a better pattern company? I mean, I'm a pretty
> experienced seamstress... but for the finished garments that would
> come out, it seems that the patterns were just way too complicated.
> I can't even imagine one of the more complex later-period patterns!
>
> Just a de-lurking gripe... back into lurk mode now. ;)
>
> -Laura

From what I understand a shirt is just a short tunic. Shirt coming from the
word short. I could be wrong though, it's happened before.

Catherine of Dubh Ard
Cathi in Chilliwack BC
ICQ# 4227964

"Librarians are the secret masters of the universe. They control all the
information. Don't piss them off!" - Spider Robinson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Hondy" <scholari@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:43 AM
Subject: [SCA-Garb] Tunic or Shirt


> After looking at pictures and sites, and seeing tunics in drawings and
what
> some call shirts, called tunics on other sites...  I ask, what is the
> difference between a shirt and a tunic?  Just to narrow it down a tad, I
am
> speaking of the 1300s
>
> Simon Hondy

Think it can't happen to you? YOUR WRONG! Very wrong!
MANKATO, Minn., 11:42 a.m. EDT August 1, 2001 -- Vikings' Pro Bowl lineman Korey
Stringer died early Wednesday at a Mankato hospital following complications from
heat stroke, according to hospital officials. Read the article at
http://www.clickondetroit.com/ sports and top news.

I wanted to share an article I did for a news group last year that many my find
beneficial as well here.

  SUMMER TIME HEAT SURVIVAL - With summer comes the heat.  Soon it will start to
reach in the upper 90's and 100's soon in most areas. Normally that would not
bother us thanks to air conditioning and swimming pools.  But we who attend
fairs, do not have that luxury.

So I wanted to share with you some basic first aid tips and survival techniques
so you don't fall victim to heat exhaustion, or heat stroke. YOU should always
familiarize yourself with the FIRST AID tent and take note of the staff (those
with radios and those who hear those voices in their heads) these are your
lifesavers in an emergency.
All to often Rennies over dress for the weather, sure the garb looks great but
the poor person dies in the heat with 20 pounds of material on. This article
address this issue. Please take care of yourself and those around you while
playing at the fair in the heat.

I've seen way to may people who are on the go pass out, or fall victim to heat
problems simply because they would not slow down, and or remove the garments,
and drink water through out the day. Don't let this happen to you.

Below are a few things to watch for as you make your way through the crowds,
many will welcome the fact that security and playtrons are concerned with the
heat and follow your advice to seek shade, and get some water.  Remember we are
not kids anymore, and our bodies can't take the heat as it once did years ago.
So take care of your body and it will take care of you.

  OVER HEATING

Symptoms at a fast glance: Red Face and sweating profusely these are your fist
warning signs to any potential problem. If you see someone like this YOU HAVE TO
TAKE CHARGE. Simply ask them if they are ok - LISTEN - listen to the words, are
they slurred, WATCH THE EYES are they focused on you or in a daze.  If they are
with others, check them as well - You want to rule out a drunk first, or other
mind altering stimulants.  If you still think they are over heated convince them
to walk with you - GET TO SOME SHADE and TO SOME WATER or escort them to the
FIRST AID TENT and have the EMS staff check them real quick!

I love to use this line when helping people - " Have you seen the view from
up/over here yet, you can just sit here under this great shade tree and take all
the pictures you want, and know body knows you're here plus you can get
something to drink right over there."

  If they walk with you check the wind direction and attempt to find the best
area with a breeze.  They will make a comment believe me, such as awww that
feels good.  NOW's your chance, You can offer to fetch them some ICE WATER or
send someone for it, if you feel the need have security get EMS to come over to
you as well.

You should carry a small bottle of water with you at all times just for
emergencies like this. Often times that's what I have in my tankard  when
walking (cheaper than beer when spilled).   Hand it to them or poor it on a
paper towel or napkin and let them cool down.  If you haven't seen a change in
them after a few minutes, you may be dealing with a mild case of heat exhaustion
and medical help may be needed.  It's safer to let trained EMS staff handle a
more serious case as they are trained for such problems.

  Elderly people or those with HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE should take special precaution
as well as young kids, they tend to over do and try to keep up with those around
them. So you have to be on the look out for these symptoms at all times.  By
taking "Shade Brakes" you can prevent problems before they arise.

  Again you have to use your judgment and ask them how they feel, tell them why
you approached them and your concerns.  I stopped you because ... and I didn't
want to see you have a problem and not being able to enjoy the fair... You just
seemed a bit flushed and hot so please be aware of your condition and try to
cool off with some water - if the privy area has running water, you may wish to
mention it to them as well.

  If the person is in a costume have them take the outer layers off, and relax
for a spell, this may not be easy for women though depending on the costume but
they should be able to "DRESS DOWN"  to the minimum items needed to cover the
body.  You may even find it necessary to use a vendor's shop or both to put
someone in if no shade can be found.  Have someone contact the EMS group or the
Fair Security staff and then let them know where you are and let them handle it
from there once they are on scene.

  So when should you get help? At the first signs of a potential problem!

  Telling Someone is the key to safety.

If the person becomes non-responsive or is just totally dazed which are the
extremes GET HELP! Don't be a hero and try to do it by yourself. You are not
trained for this let someone who is make the call for the treatment needed. You
are just the eyes and ears for them - remember that!

Below are some guidelines to the more sever symptoms of heat exhaustion and heat
stroke. Remember COOLING THEM DOWN can save their life, but paying attention
first can prevent it from escalation.

  HEATSTROKE:

Heatstroke, reaction to extreme heat involving high body temperature and
disturbance of the sweating mechanism. Symptoms may include hot, red, dry skin;
a strong, rapid pulse; and loss of consciousness. Heatstroke is often fatal.
Heatstroke results from excessive sweating that depletes the body's salts.
Sweating then ceases. First aid must be immediate and consists of rubbing the
patient's skin with cold water or alcohol.

Heat stroke is defined as a core body temperature in excess of 105 degrees with
associated central nervous system dysfunction in the setting of a large
environmental heat load that cannot be dissipated. Complications include
respiratory distress, intravascular coagulation, renal or liver failure and
seizures.

  HEAT EXHAUSTION:

Heat exhaustion is a less severe condition in which exposure to heat causes
fatigue. Body temperature is normal or below normal, and sweating continues.
First aid involves cooling the person and providing sips of salt water.
Heatstroke and heat exhaustion can be prevented by moderating activity and by an
adequate intake of fluids and salt.

  TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR:

If you are one who tends to sweat a lot while outside doing the everyday things
- please ask you doctor about salt tablets and heat conditions, monitor your
blood pressure and above all DRINK PLENTY OF WATER your body will thank you for
it.  It's our goal to ensure you have a great weekend and enjoy your visit to
your fair and not the local hospital.





===================
Come visit us here at Ren_Fair we are one of the best groups for fair
information around as we have several members from across the United States
here.
Join us today at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ren_Fair

Member of the Michigan Ill. or Ohio area ren fairs? Then join us in the
ren_fairs ezine - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ren_fairs  We look forward to
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Lord Wolf
A Ren Rat that's 28.8% pure and 71.2 % corrupted
http://cameoclothes.com http://pubcrew.com http://lordwolf.com
http://funibiz.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., catwoods@m... wrote:
> --- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Greycat Designs" <greycatdesigns@y...> wrote:
>
> > I purchased two of the Past Patterns sets--the Basic Tunic and
> > Cotehardie/Sideless Surcoat pattern.
> >
>
> This is the pattern I used for my garb which is my first attempt at
> authenticity which I posted a link to a few days ago.
>
> Never again.

That begs the question... what ARE some good patterns?

Hmmm... That sounds like a fun project.. hehehe.. Thank you for the
suggestion!!! I'll try to find the time to do this after I take care of the
bliaut. ;-)

Caillech Brigte


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I did watch "First Knight" in the theatre when it came out - no, I didn't
pay for it, my brother-in-law is the theatre manager here...<G>
     Aside from the totally non-historical costuming, the thought that kept
running through my mind was "Why was nobody EVER watching the
door/gate/borders/etc?"
     And the Arthur story just loses all impact when you remove the
magic......

Liadain

> I tried so hard to watch that movie. I did. I truly did. It has
> people I actively lust after in it (no, not Richard Gere, though he
> did look kind of yummy in it, what little I saw). It was a fairly
> recent "historical-ish" movie and I was itching to see the costuming.
> I'd heard it stunk mightily, but I was willing to give it a fair
> shot. To say the least, I was disappointed by it. I literally
> couldn't get through the first scene without sputtering in outrage so
> badly (what WAS that line? "You have to not care if you live or
> die"?) that DB talked me into turning it off. If the costuming wasn't
> worth the look, and it didn't seem to be, then I'll just perma-pass
> this one by. No reward is worth this.
>
> Active apologies to those who adored it. I'm sure I love a lot of
> movies that'd absolutely dismay every single person on this list. But
> oh god, this is not one of them....
>
> Aoda, who actually liked "Dude, Where's My Car?"

Kass,

There was no attachment to this email??

Alessandra

----- Original Message -----
From: Kass McGann
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:22 PM
To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Magpie eyes??

> I'd love to know if you have any documentation about italians wearing
plaid.

Here you go, Alessandra.

Medieval Italy -- in the sixth picture down (St. Martin is Knighted, 1312-17
AD), several men are wearing tunics made of checked (possibly
plaid)material.

Italian's not my forte, but I bet you can find more...

Kass

Kass




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bad boy!  No cookie! <G>
     And be careful what you ask for, you just might get it......

Liadain,
laughing and trying to imagine how many rolls of duct tape would be required
to make herself a full body double

> I just took a look at the website...
>
> Any lovely ladies and lass that would like assistance in being duct
taped..
> molded and form fitted..
>
> I will be waving over here.. arms high in the air gladly willing to
assist.
>
> YIS
>
> Lazarus Wolfdracca
> Leather Merchant
> Shire Midhaven
> (Mt Vernon, WA)
> Kingdom of AnTir
> Charles

Lots of folks will use the terms interchangeably.  But when you get right
down to the technicals, a tunic is (generally) an overgarment in period,
while a shirt is (generally) underwear - the layer worn closest to the skin.
     As you come closer to the present, of course, a shirt migrates- in the
Olden Days, a man in just his shirt (no coat, jacket, whatever, over) was
not "properly" dressed.  Even workmen in Victorian era pictures, for
example, would usually wear SOMETHING over the shirt, even if it was just a
raggedy vest...

Liadain

> After looking at pictures and sites, and seeing tunics in drawings and
what
> some call shirts, called tunics on other sites...  I ask, what is the
> difference between a shirt and a tunic?  Just to narrow it down a tad, I
am
> speaking of the 1300s
>
> Simon Hondy

OK, since yahoo saw fit to eat part of my post...

I've been thinking about using illuminations as sources.  The one I've
spent the most time studying is "The Life of Edward the Confessor."  It
has been dated to 1250, but obviously the events it portrays took place
roughly 200 years earlier.  When using it as documentation, should I
consider it a source for Anglo-Saxon England or mid-13th century England?

Alianor

Sarah Michele Ford
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
aka Alianor of Ravenglass
aka the Dark Melm of Sith
---------------------------
sarah@...
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

I have visions of dozens of women in all sizes and shapes wending a huge line
through the barn at Pennsic, all of them eagerly waving several rolls of
duct-tape at the besieged Lazarus, who works long into the night to tape them
all...

Alitea
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Frank Thallas
   To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:39 PM
   Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Re: Teaching fiances. . .


     Bad boy!  No cookie! <G>
       And be careful what you ask for, you just might get it......

   Liadain,
   laughing and trying to imagine how many rolls of duct tape would be required
   to make herself a full body double

   > I just took a look at the website...
   >
   > Any lovely ladies and lass that would like assistance in being duct
   taped..
   > molded and form fitted..
   >
   > I will be waving over here.. arms high in the air gladly willing to
   assist.
   >
   > YIS
   >
   > Lazarus Wolfdracca
   > Leather Merchant
   > Shire Midhaven
   > (Mt Vernon, WA)
   > Kingdom of AnTir
   > Charles



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I really don't think we have that many Period-Or-Die people, either on
this list or in the SCA in general....
     But on the other hands, certain teaching styles (mea culpa) could be
taken this way.  If someone asks me "how was X done in period" I will give
the best answer I can (or say "beats me" and point them toward someone who
might know...) and give examples, references, when possible.  If someone
asks "oo, gotta have this Y done by Tuesday, how can I do it quick and
dirty" that calls for a different answer (though the asker may well get the
period stuff as well, for use on the NEXT one when they have more
time....<G>)
     Periodicity is a personal thing, and we all tend to settle in at our own
comfort level......

Liadain

Ok, makes sense.  What is an expected length for a shirt?  Lets see if I get
this right...
Shirt down to upper thigh
Under tunic down to mid calf
Over tunic down to below the knee

which, if not all could and/or did have the sides lit open...  and then how
much slit?  I know don't show the braise!

Simon Hondy
who said tunics were easy!?  ;}

>    Lots of folks will use the terms interchangeably.  But when you get
right
> down to the technicals, a tunic is (generally) an overgarment in period,
> while a shirt is (generally) underwear - the layer worn closest to the
skin.
>     As you come closer to the present, of course, a shirt migrates- in the
> Olden Days, a man in just his shirt (no coat, jacket, whatever, over) was
> not "properly" dressed.  Even workmen in Victorian era pictures, for
> example, would usually wear SOMETHING over the shirt, even if it was just
a
> raggedy vest...
>
> Liadain

Hello, dear, come sit next to Auntie Liadain...<G>
     The correct answer to "what fabric" is - whatever fabric suits your
purpose.
     Aida cloth is very easy to use, but alas is good for nothing much but
hanging on the wall - once you try to wash it, it loses its body, warps and
stretches in weird directions, frays to nothing.  Do not use this for garb
or heavily-used accessories.
     For pillow beres, cushion covers, coifs, nightcaps, etc, look for a
(fairly) even-weave linen or cotton of a  weight to suit your purpose -
these items need some body to them in order to retain their shape.  It's
best to work these on a scrolling frame or "slate" frame of a size to
contain the entire project - hoops can deform your fabric.
     For shirts, shifts, and other body linen, use the finest (fairly)
even-weave linen, cotton, silk, or whatever that you can SEE - here you can
(usually) use a hoop - TEST IT FIRST to be sure the hoop doesn't leave
permanent marks. <Many distortions of the ground threads can be erased by
dragging the eye end of the needle across them to re-align the threads -
washing will usually set them back into place.)  Look closely at the fabric
before you purchase, or purchase a small sample first to take home and abuse
in the wash, try out your pattern, etc.
     I really truly recommend trying your counted pattern in BOTH directions
on your sample piece before you work an entire garment - other than the
specially-woven Aida and other even-weave fabrics, almost everything will be
just slightly off in even-ness, and your pattern may look entirely different
lengthways as opposed to widthways.  This will make a difference to your
embroidery layout for a garment.  Also try stitching a small one-stitch
square of the stitch length you plan to use - you may have to adjust a
thread or two (over 2 one direction, perhaps over three the other) to obtain
visual "squareness".
     And remember that you do not have to work everything in the Holbein
stitch - it's an interesting technique, but it will not work for every
pattern, and it is not as durable on something that will be used/laundered a
lot as back stitch or other techniques.  Save the Holbein for where it will
really matter - a frill where both sides will be seen, for example.
     Once you have chosen and abused your ground fabric, match the size of
your embroidery thread (cotton or silk - I really don't recommend rayon
because it doesn't hold up as well) to the size of the threads in your
ground.  Too large will distort the fabric and not give you the crisp look
integral to blackwork; too thin will sort of vanish and look faded....
     Metal threads are beautiful, but can be a pain to work with as you have
discovered.  It helps to knot the thread at the needle end; it may take a
bit of practice to make a tiny knot that won't distort your fabric.  Work
with shorter lengths, and let the needle "hang" fairly often to avoid knots
and snarls.  Lots of period examples show the metal thread woven through the
stitching (chain, stem, or backstitches, for example) on the front rather
than actually stitched through the fabric - this is a bit easier on the
metal, and much less wasteful of it.  Not always possible, though, if you're
working a flat counted design.
     Finally, work with the nap of the thread (flosses or metals).  Usually,
the direction it comes off the spool or out of the skein is the right
direction.  you'll get far fewer knots and tangles this way, and there will
be less fraying.  Use the best you can afford for your purpose - flat silks
are shinier, but harder to handle and more likely to break or fray, twisted
silks are easier to handle and stronger, but more matte in appearance.  The
same applies to cottons.

Now that I've told you more than ever you asked....
Liadain


> OK.
>
> I tested a pommegranate blackwork pattern on 18g Aidacloth in
> slightly metallic gold silk and I like it very much (although I have
> a tendency to get lost....not used to the "connect the dots" effect
> of the first/second pass type of stiching).  The metallic silk is a
> little difficult to work...I noticed it does tend to separate and
> break if I don't use minimal length.
>
> But anyway, my question is this; what is the proper cloth to use for
> my work?  I am assuming linen, but what thread count?  I am not sure
> how small I can get without losing my mind and my eyesight.
>
> Liadain?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cat