Eanswyth said:
>  >I may be confused (happens frequently), but isn't NZ
>possum a different animal than US possum? I thought
>someone once said they are not the same, just are called
>the same thing.
And Stella said:
>  THe possum wreaking havoc in NZ has a big black bushy tail.
>I believe that this possum was introduced from australia,
>where they have several varieties.

You're both right. The NZ possum is the brushtail possum from
Australia, where there are indeed many different sorts of possums. The
brushtail is apparently the most common one over there too.

The US possum is a different animal, as far as I know. It's bigger and
meaner than ours.

/maggie

Good communication is as stimulating as black coffee,
and just as hard to sleep after - Anne Morrow Lindbergh

--- Elizabeth Walpole <ewalpole@...> wrote:
> Greetings,
> I'm planning to make a sideless surcote during my next
> school holidays (only
> a few weeks away, I really should be working on
> assignments) I was planning
> to adapt a princess line pattern I've got, but when I
> looked at the pictures
> again I reallised that the skirt on my pattern isn't full
> enough,

Skirts can be made fuller by adding gores. Triangles of
fabric added from waist to floor. (Sometimes armpit to
floor, sometimes lower, depending on where you need the
fullness)

> I don't want to buy a pattern, as my mum is getting
> annoyed at me buying a
> new pattern every holidays.

Yeah, being in Australia now, I get my mum who is in
america to send me the latest patterns, since it takes
about a year to hit aussie shores.

(I bought it
> before I had decided on a time period, and before I read
> all the arguments
> for a persona, as opposed to period/culture hopping) .

I am guilty of that, and proud of it, of my 8-10
outfits(lost track) only 3 are in the same period, of those
2 are in the same country.  I guess thats the part about
being a artist and costumer, not just a historian, I wanna
do something from every era! Gonna even start delving into
POst Period SCA stuff, cause Hey I can!

Also the only sideless surcote pattern I've
> seen is the
> McCall's one and I've heard lots of negative things about
> it, and it sounds
> like a b**** to fix up.

I like the McCalls pattern for the kirtle , it has panels
instead of princess seams and gives a nice line and is very
flattering, but yes the surcoats are quite scary. Simp 8725
is a good one cept for the amount of fabric they use but
that can be dealt with by turning the huge semicircle waist
of fabrics sides into proper gores. I think I ended up
using half of the fabric they recomended. I must say I am
still in need of commercial patterns but I do adapt the
hell out of them.
> Thanks
> Elizabeth


Catalina


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1602631316
>ok this one offends me. A hoop and a farthingale are NOT the same thing.
>Someone give this PERSON a clue please.

okay..now follow the link to the site for the "court" dresses from here..the
gowns look gorgeous..a bit overdone for my taste but lovely.
till you scroll down to the "italian overdress aka Houppelande"
then I have to worry a bit..
http://www.fantasia-pandemonium.com/women.html

Rainillt
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

I attempted to follow the advice ( orders ) that I got from everyone when I
began my garb for my first camping event and that was "pre wash, pre wash,
pre wash" the fabric. Well I did, in hot, lots of dryer and I am glad I did.

It managed to rain for two out of the three days and the morass of mud was
interesting, especially at 3 am on the way to the bathroom.

Anyhow, one of my dresses was a nice off white sideless surcote that was a
wee bit too long and I came home with that, a linen chemise and a pale
yellow italian style overdress all with 4 inches of mud on their hems.


Guess what!!!!!!!!!!

They all came clean with a bit of Shout ( well alot of it ) plastered all
over the hems and washed in that good hot water.

Rainillt



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

What is up with the zombie scot?

At 09:34 PM 5/31/01 -0400, you wrote:

> ><http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1602631316>http:/
> /cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1602631316
> >ok this one offends me. A hoop and a farthingale are NOT the same thing.
> >Someone give this PERSON a clue please.
>
>okay..now follow the link to the site for the "court" dresses from here..the
>gowns look gorgeous..a bit overdone for my taste but lovely.
>till you scroll down to the "italian overdress aka Houppelande"
>then I have to worry a bit..
><http://www.fantasia-pandemonium.com/women.html>http://www.fantasia-pandemonium\
.com/women.html
>
>Rainillt
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
><http://explorer.msn.com>http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
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Hello,

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The possum here in washington state are  white and black with a Rat tail and are
nasty!  if they get into the walls of your house or your attick there is no
getting rid of them..they will eat your pets food and then your pets,and spread
disease that there are still no shots for..to your pets and through your pets to
you...
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Stella
   To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:50 PM
   Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] fur, was Re: Ebay help (Warning - kinda long!!)




     >I may be confused (happens frequently), but isn't NZ >possum a different
animal than US possum? I thought >someone once said they are not the same, just
are called >the same thing.

     Eanswyth
     THe possum wreaking havoc in NZ has a big black bushy tail. I believe that
this possum was introduced from australia, where they have several varieties.
     Dont quote me on this.
     Stella


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Hello,

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   Uploaded by : moirabeaneoin@...
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does
> anyone know of a place online with instructions for this sort of
pattern, or
> how I can adapt my current pattern?
> I don't want to buy a pattern, as my mum is getting annoyed at me
buying a
> new pattern every holidays.
If you're willing to play around with things, you could try Katherine
Holkeboer's "Patterns for theatrical costume".  You'll still want to
look elsewhere for construction instructions, fabric choices, etc.,
but I've been having fun using it to make a mid 14th century outfit
for my 3 year old before making one of my own.;-)
Moira
now to figure out which fabric to use for the Cotehardie for her to
wear over the kirtle. (already made adjustments to the pattern, such
as lengthening it.)

I am almost done with my greatest creation!  You might remember my
discription about two weeks ago when I first started, it's a red rose
pattern damask bodice and black overskirt with redwork in a lace pattern
down either side of the split skirt and red underskirt.  My chemise is white
with blackwork trim like the Eleanor of Toledo portrait.  Here's my
dilema...I usually use grommets because I like the durability and how easy
they are to put in.  However since this gown is turning out so beautifully,
I think I'd rather do this one period so I can put it in the A&S
competition.  SO, how should I do the laces in the back?  I have boning on
either side in the back, at the underarms and at the front where it also has
ties sort of like Domenico Ghirlandaio's Portrait of Giovanna degli Albizzi
c. 1488, with rings which I've recessed under flaps in the front.  Should I
do rings in the back as well (on the underside)?  I don't want to punch
holes through the gown!  But I want to be as period as possible.

Also, on the sleeves, I've patterned them from Raphael's Portrait of
Giovanna d'Aragona, 1518.  From the portrait I can't tell if there are loops
over the buttons so the sleeves could be left open, or if it's all sewed
together.  I could sure use some input so I can finish this gown and post
pictures!

Warmest regards,
Gabrielle

Yes that helps thank you.  I always called it cording or piping,
until I learned the upholstrey called it welt.  A welt to me was a
pocket,  but I guess the idea is pretty much the same, an extra row
of fabric to make the seam larger and fill in the space left by the
stitches.  What I wanted to know was if the Medieval welt seam was
the same as the modern, so I guess then the answer is yes?  but with
no filler cord perhaps.  I've always used the flat felled seam in
constructing garb,  I was just curious about other seam treatments.
Can you image how very neat a gored dress would be with welt seams.
Sounds like a plan  to me.
Thanks,
Tammy

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Cathi" <1vixen828@h...> wrote:
> Pretty much the same thing yeah. The only real difference is that in
> upholstery you'd have a thick welt (thick filler cord) while in
clothing it
> would be smaller. Often it's called piping in clothing. Sometimes in
> clothes, it's not even filled at all.
> Hope this helps, I'm a bit tired and my not be at my explanitory
best.
>
> Catherine of Duart
> Cathi in Chilliwack BC
> ICQ# 4227964
>
> "Librarians are the secret masters of the universe. They control
all the
> information. Don't piss them off!" - Spider Robinson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <trobinson@e...>
> To: <SCA-Garb@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:04 AM
> Subject: [SCA-Garb] Welt seam question
>
>
> > Is the welt seam,  that I keep reading about the same as the welt
> > seam treatment in upholstery? If not does anyone know what it is?

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., Bice the Notorious <jjohns19@t...> wrote:
> YOUR sanity is STILL up for debate Moira!!
True, Very True. ;-D
Moira

> At 11:41 PM 5/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
> > > Since Yahoo took over the list, I can't find anything in the
> >archive either.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tamara
> >Thank you both!!!  At least this proves I'm not TOTALLY crazy.;-)
> >Moira
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Mary Higgins" <rufquad@m...> wrote:
> Okay, I looked in her file and all I see is pictures - but I
believe that this is, in fact, the text that I'm looking for, now if
I could only find it!
>
> Does anyone know what message number the original text was posted
in so I do the search by message number since I can't for the life of
me get the search by "gore" to produce what I'm looking for?
>
> Margarete (the computer inept. . . or at least yahoo inept)

The message will be in there, you'll just need to hunt through all
those blasted messages that Yahoo finds with the combination of
letters that form the word gore (as in any word with gore in it). I
think there were a few hundred, latest dates first.
You could also try a search on the  writer of the post (sarah
michelle ford) to see if she wrote a full explanation under a
different thread, or click "message index" in the post below. It will
take you to the chronological order of messages around the time it
was originally posted. Then you can see if any subject titles spark
your memory:).

Cheers,
michaela


> (My sincere thanks to everyone for your help!)
>   try just gore it pulled up heaps of threads (heh, bad pun),
including:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb/message/23356
>
>   Which might be the thread you were looking at before. Just keep
>   clicking "up thread" to see the previous messages, but this post
>   should help find the file that the writer said would be put in
her
>   file section.

I made a sideless surcote last weekend. It was REALLY easy and looks great. I
didnt use a pattern and I dont think one is really required - altering a
commercial pattern sounds like a lot of wasted effort.
   The pattern I used was from Marc Carlson's site:
   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/sdress1.html

   The pattern is wonderfully simple. Cut two rectangles roughly as wide as your
body. Join the shoulders on an appropriate angle for you. Cut a neckhole
(remeber two thirds at the front, one third at the back). Put the rectangles on
and figure out where you want the side trapezoids to go (pin them on a little
higher, the sides WILL sag a little and it is easier to cut more away that to
add more later!). Once everything is attached THEN shape out the armholes. I
tried shaping it out first and wound up with armholes much lower than i
expected.

   This pattern is REALLY quick and easy. If you want any more tips or
information feel free to ask, I am morethan happy to help!
   Stella






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., "Frank Thallas" <hardcorps@v...> wrote:
>   Pretty.  No connection whatsoever to the Renaissance, of
course....<G>


Nor vinatge victorian... what I've seen on ebay claiming to be
victorian.. as in antique. Not merely bad costuming, but absolutly no
knowelege of when something was made.

Most common are fine white dropped waist dresses claiming to be
1880s.. snort.

cheers,
michaela
not to say I haven't seen some stunners, such as an authentic 1880s
japanese made gown for a european woman. Very artistic and not the
usual thing at all. I made a bet that I would make it if I ever found
enough blue japanese woven silk.

> > The thing is I've got to learn to stay off ebay but most of this
stuff I
> > run into on accident.
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1600133455

--- In SCA-Garb@y..., sheila widmaier <turrel@y...> wrote:
>
> >>Subject: Re: Altering Commercial Patterns was  Alter
> >>Years Patterns
> >>
> >> And it can't be said often enough... MAKE A
> >>MUSLIN!!!
>
>  Except when you mock-up a corset, bodice, or doublet.
>  My experience with muslin or something lite-weight is
> that it doesn't give the support needed to make sure
> the end result will be correct.  I use canvas or twill
> to mock these up, and save the muslin for the smock,
> dress, shirt, and pants mock-ups.

Absolutely.
I once made a taffeta empire line dress for a woman who was a plus
size. The calico (muslin) was too giving comapred to the taffeta, and
so I wound up making the bodice too small.
I managed to salvage it by extra segments under the arms, but not
something I want to go through again.
Use a material that drapes/gives like the finished product. In my
case, I'd have been better off using a cheap poly moire taffeta for
weight and give.
When making a leather garment, I make the pattern out of a sheet of
plastic used in the print industry then mock up in cheap vinyl.
I got perfect results that way. I mean perfect, because it's like
paper, and seam allowances are really easy to work out.

cheers,
michaela

> You're both right. The NZ possum is the brushtail possum from
> Australia, where there are indeed many different sorts of possums.
The
> brushtail is apparently the most common one over there too.
>
> The US possum is a different animal, as far as I know. It's bigger
and
> meaner than ours.


And of course tourists could easily be fooled into believing the
natural state of our possums is squashed flat on the side of the road.

As far as I know, 'our' possums are actually protected over in Oz. I
always wondered just why we didn't trap 'em send 'em back to Oz and
charge their govt for saving their wildlife;)
Now I know just why they don't want these ones back.. and it's a fair
amount to do with what our ones carry.. while alive. I do believe the
finishing process removes the ... problem.
The rest is of course money.

cheers,
michaela

I thought we had talked about the quality of Cunnington's
_Handbook of Medieval Costume_ but I cannot find it in the
archives.

How good/bad is this reference? Anyone have an opinion?

Irmele

now my brain is leaking out of my ears




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Can someone please tell me if the nobles of the early
> to mid 16th century ever wore their hair down? Every
> pic that I have seen has them in a headpiece.
> Thanks!
> Karen

Depends on where you're looking.
I believe hair down or styled was more prominent in Italy.

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Reformation.W
omen/CK33.html

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Italian.Renai
ssance/CJ08.html

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Reformation.W
omen/CK36.html

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Reformation.W
omen/CK38.html

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Reformation.W
omen/CK39.html

And they hiss too. The best remedy for them is lots of noise and lots of
light. They're nocturnal and like neither one. We've gotten two to move tht
way.
Cute little ears though. They just need to be on another critter!

Catherine of Duart
Cathi in Chilliwack BC
ICQ# 4227964

"Librarians are the secret masters of the universe. They control all the
information. Don't piss them off!" - Spider Robinson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tina M. Comroe" <drgndncr1@...>
To: <SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] fur, was Re: Ebay help (Warning - kinda long!!)


> The possum here in washington state are  white and black with a Rat tail
and are nasty!  if they get into the walls of your house or your attick
there is no getting rid of them..they will eat your pets food and then your
pets,and spread disease that there are still no shots for..to your pets and
through your pets to you...

> I may be confused (happens frequently), but isn't NZ possum a
> different animal than US possum? I thought someone
> once said they are
> not the same, just are called the same thing.
>
> Eanswyth

The marsupial from down under is the possum, while the one living
in the U.S. is the oppossum. They ARE different species. The
names only sound the same because we are lazy saying it.

Irmele
Science Teacher

Yes well, $16.99US is a hell of a lot for a bum roll.

Although for some reason the - what appears to be a pair of pantyhose pulled
over the top of the dummy gave me a chuckle - i think i need to lie down . . .

  http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1602937096


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recall that one was quite good. Of course it is all basic line drawings so
use them as a ROUGH GUIDE rather than anything else. I found the layout very
useful for quick reference and was fairly in-depth. I dont recall any major
irrationalities or anything but it is a few months since I used it.
   Personally if I had a chance to own it at a reasonable price I would
definitely go for it. I liked the book, but as always no book has the
defninitive word on ANYTHING.
   Stella


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Check this one out... interesting style...
> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/52218685

Man....someone needs to learn how to use the focus....that one hurt my
eyes.

>
> Oh My... gapiosis....
> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48318832

looks like it doesn't fit the dress form...but even so, where is the
plackett????

>
> That is a "treble crochet - redefined last year, and awful sloppy IMHO)
> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48929508

another photo that kills the eyes.

> Well, it's getting closer...
> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/46745464

not too bad.

> Oh purrty....
> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/47054662

mmmmm....purple...not sure about the peplum though..just not my style.

> Hmmmm
> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48317439

hmmm.....is right...need a better picture to decide on this one.

Medbh

I like my Gingher 12" upololstry (sp?) shears that I ordered throught
work....$45 scissors that cost me half of that.

The only this is that you need to have a pretty strong wrist to use them
on a constant basis. After a while of cutting stuff I switch to my
smaller and lighter Verberos (I think that's how it's spelled) scissors.

Although, the Ginghers and my paper scissors always get comments from
passers by as I'm taking them in to get them sharpened.

Medbh

Colleen Archer
Designer/Owner
Wyng'd Lyon Creations
Custom Clothing, Costumes and More

(858) 566-4078
e-mail:  wyngdlyon@...
webpage: wyngdlyon.duckpond.org

Michaela says:

>As far as I know, 'our' possums are actually protected over in Oz. I
>always wondered just why we didn't trap 'em send 'em back to Oz and
>charge their govt for saving their wildlife;)

well, the brushtail ones aren't protected, I think. There's at least
two other species of them that are though. I'd have to check to be
certain, but we had a casual conversation about it with some people
when we went over recently.

>Now I know just why they don't want these ones back.. and it's a fair
>amount to do with what our ones carry.. while alive. I do believe the
>finishing process removes the ... problem.

what, TB? I know they're a big problem in that arena.

/maggie

Good communication is as stimulating as black coffee,
and just as hard to sleep after - Anne Morrow Lindbergh

i like the tudor ones - the eyelet holes stand out like the proverbial
things that belong to male dogs - be nicer if they were less visable,
smaller and closer together - rings sewn under the parts you want to lace
and then spiral lace the bits together - hook and eye at each end to secure
it.  - i deserve a snooby snack for that

the man in the kilt shouldn't wear eyemake up - gives me bad 80's
flashbacks.  Looks like someone gene spliced robert smith of the cure and
jim kerr of simple minds - and then the result had a bad accident along the
way as well - possible involving the boys from pseudo echo.


>    Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:59:14 -0400
>    From: Bice the Notorious <jjohns19@...>
> Subject: Re: ebay gowns
>
> What is up with the zombie scot?
>
..
>
><http://www.fantasia-pandemonium.com/women.html>http://www.fantasia-pandemo
nium.com/women.html
> >

File        : /Brianna's Kirtle- Front View.jpg
   Uploaded by : moirabeaneoin@...
   Description : Brianna's Kirtle- Front View

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb/files/Brianna%27s%20Kirtle-%20Front%20Vie\
w.jpg

Lovely dress - and she is as cute as a little button - cheeky smile reminds me
of my littlest.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]