--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Gillian De Chelseye" <delia43@...>
wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any good links for hand-sewn seams with *very* clear
> directions and/or pictures?  Or alternatively, can someone give me a
> short explanation of the process?
>
try this article by Maggie Forest:

http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/garments/garments.pdf

It's mostly on stuff other than seams, but it does have a few pages on
seams, and the other info is quite good, also.  In browsing through it
just now, I noticed some interesting stuff I had missed on the Moselund
kirtle.

Rashid

It sounds like you know many of the stitches already. It's that the
heavy linen is, as you've found out, too heavy for a French seam,
which is better for finer fabrics.

I fully line my garments, so I don't use a finishing stitch on my
seams much, unless I need to reinforce it. But I have done a simple
whip stitch around the edges of my heavy materials sometimes, which
seems to be enough to keep them from fraying. Or if you prefer a
nicer look, use the blanket or buttonhole stitch.

Joane


On Feb 7, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Gillian De Chelseye wrote:

> Modern French seams are too bulky for my winter-weight garments,
> especially the heavy linen.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting article.

May I ask is this the style of a research article one might do for an
A&S type competition event?

Joane


On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:19 PM, unclrashid wrote:

> try this article by Maggie Forest:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gillian De Chelseye wrote:
>  Does anyone have any good links for hand-sewn seams with *very* clear
>  directions and/or pictures?  Or alternatively, can someone give me a
>  short explanation of the process?
>
>  Modern French seams are too bulky for my winter-weight garments,
>  especially the heavy linen.
>
>  Currently, I'm proficient in running stitch, back stitch, hem stitch,
>  blanket stitch, and eyelet hole stitch.  I am having trouble
>  translating these into a properly period finished seam that doesn't
>  bulk up the seam.


There's an excellent article called Archaeological Sewing, by Tangwystyl
verch Morgant Glasvryn that gives a breakdown of stitches, and where and
when they were found. That might be some help. It's online, so you
should be able to Google it.

Sinech.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil - The Truth Against the World



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joane Silvertoppe wrote:
> It sounds like you know many of the stitches already. It's that the
> heavy linen is, as you've found out, too heavy for a French seam,
> which is better for finer fabrics.
>
> I fully line my garments, so I don't use a finishing stitch on my
> seams much, unless I need to reinforce it. But I have done a simple
> whip stitch around the edges of my heavy materials sometimes, which
> seems to be enough to keep them from fraying. Or if you prefer a
> nicer look, use the blanket or buttonhole stitch.

What I usually do is either open out the seam and 'hem' the edges onto the
garment, or fold both 'flaps of the seam to one side and do the same. This seems
to work well without creating too much bulk.

Sinech.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil - The Truth Against the World

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Joane Silvertoppe <jsilvertoppe@...>
wrote:
>
> Interesting article.
>
> May I ask is this the style of a research article one might do for
an
> A&S type competition event?
>

This is along the lines of what I would expect.  I'm sure it varies
from kingdom to kingdom, with some having lower standards.  I judged
papers for the Northern Lights competition in the East Kingdom once and
it caused great consternation because I graded them like I was giving
fairly easy grades on college coursework, which many people thought was
way too harsh.  They were gonna throw my grades out, but decided to
leave them in because I judged everyone equally.

Rashid

Hi there,

I am going soon to my first camping event and it will be cold.  I want
to make myself a cloak.  I've bought a goodly amount of heathered navy
wool and have fulled it in the machine.  I was thinking that a simple
3/4 circle would be practical and I want to get this made to give it a
good month to hang before I hem it.  (The dreaded bias hem.)

For this first event I have been making Viking garb (easy and
comfortable) and ultimately I will probably choose to make 13th-14th
century European garb.

My questions:
- Is linen the best lining material?  Or should I leave it unlined?
- Is it better to try and match the wool for the lining or can I have
fun with another colored lining?
- Are there any details I can add?  I wasn't planning on a hood since I
will make a separate liripipe, but I was wondering if there are other
details I could/should consider adding.

Thanks for any advice!

Bianca

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Zakhour <sharon.zakhour@...>
wrote:
  I've bought a goodly amount of heathered navy
> wool and have fulled it in the machine.  I was thinking that a
simple
> 3/4 circle would be practical and I want to get this made to give
it a
> good month to hang before I hem it.  (The dreaded bias hem.)

Hanging for a month should be plenty of time.  Aside from the
stretching, wool is not hard to hem.  If it's fulled, you can usually
just turn it under once and then steam it with an iron until the edge
shrinks enough that you have no pleats or wrinkles.  It might not
even need over-casting.

In my opinion a half circle cloak with darted shoulders is the most
practical.  The darts make it cling to your shoulders and prevent it
from pulling backwards and choking you.  A half circle cloak ends up
with straight grain at the center front and center back and has bias
on the sides, which helps it mold to your shoulders.    You can cheat
slightly and add about 2 inches extra on either side of the front so
it overlaps slightly and tends to gap a bit less.

Here is a link for how to pattern a half-circle cloak and a hood:

http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/Nutshell_2004-01/nab_cloaks.htm

http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/Nutshell_2004-
02/nab_gothic_hood.htm

>
> For this first event I have been making Viking garb (easy and
> comfortable) and ultimately I will probably choose to make 13th-
14th
> century European garb.
>
> My questions:
> - Is linen the best lining material?  Or should I leave it unlined?

It's only necessary to line it if you want extra warmth or if the
wool tends to shed fuzzies.  Linen is ok.  I don't advise satin or a
slippery fabric because the cloak will tend to stay in place better
if it's not slippery.

> - Is it better to try and match the wool for the lining or can I
have
> fun with another colored lining?

I'm not sure on this one, it's been a while since I've looked at
cloaks in paintings.

> - Are there any details I can add?  I wasn't planning on a hood
since I
> will make a separate liripipe, but I was wondering if there are
other
> details I could/should consider adding.

To the best of my knowledge, other than a clasp (or buttons) and
sometimes embroidery there really isn't anything else to add for this
period, and embroidery does not appear to have been common except for
something ceremonial like a coronation mantle.  Seperate hoods were
embroidered more frequently and also sometimes would have dagging on
the bottom edge of the capelet.

Rashid

Thank you! I already have a shouldered cloak that I like. (There's not
really such a word, I just mean a cloak that is molded to my shoulders so it
doesn't choke me.) But I wanted to make a hood and couldn't figure out how
to pattern the thing. Thanks again, Rashid!

Caitlin

-----Original Message-----
From: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of unclrashid
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:27 AM
To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SCA-Garb] Re: cloak question

Here is a link for how to pattern a half-circle cloak and a hood:

http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/Nutshell_2004-01/nab_cloaks.htm

http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/Nutshell_2004-
02/nab_gothic_hood.htm

Rashid

Thanks, Rashid.  This is very helpful!  It sounds like you wouldn't
bother to line a cloak, then?

Bianca

unclrashid wrote:
> In my opinion a half circle cloak with darted shoulders is the most
> practical.  The darts make it cling to your shoulders and prevent it
> from pulling backwards and choking you.  A half circle cloak ends up
> with straight grain at the center front and center back and has bias
> on the sides, which helps it mold to your shoulders.
>

The Moy gown is one of those really weird pieces that pretty much has
to be draped on the body of the intended wearer (or a very good dress
dummy).  Kass McGann (Reconstructing History) has been trying for
years to draft a commercial pattern for it but hasn't had much luck.
You might want to consider a more common cotehardie if you want
something a bit simpler but still have the same look- most people
don't notice that mine is a Moy until I turn around, and even then
it's usually only people who've been researching Irish dress that
actually recognize it for what it is.  (the seams are based along
stress points, if you're curious- it really does make sense once you
start to drape it)

That said, once you do actually get it pieced, it's a remarkably
comfortable and work-friendly dress.

Medb
(occasional lurker who finally got hers draped for her this summer)

I guess that makes sense, Medb, though it disappoints me.

It's like saying, "here's a pattern for orthodontic braces."  It's the
antithesis of mass produced.   :-)

One day...

Bianca

Medb wrote:
> The Moy gown is one of those really weird pieces that pretty much has
> to be draped on the body of the intended wearer (or a very good dress
> dummy).
>

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Zakhour <sharon.zakhour@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks, Rashid.  This is very helpful!  It sounds like you wouldn't
> bother to line a cloak, then?
>

I line it if I want it to be really warm, but for a medium-weight cloak
I might skip it.

Rashid

Hello!

Has anyone used the pattern for bodyes from Tudor Tailor? I was hoping
someone can give me some help on this as it is rather light with
regards to instructions.

Cilean

Bianca,

Do look at this example

www.cottesimple.com

It does and will give you a great look

Cilean

Hi all,

Before I loose access to all my books for the next couple of months I
have made a couple of updates to my site.

Extant Ruffs
http://www.geocities.com/curvess2000/my_venetian_ruffs_extant.htm
Has some new information on sumptuary laws.

Lave making.  Yes I have a new form of insanity, bobbin lace making.
http://au.geocities.com/curvess2000/Lace_making.htm

There are photos of extant items, lace patterns, and my own take on
things.

There is another page, Embelishments
http://au.geocities.com/curvess2000/embellishmens.htm  that I will
fill the gaps on some time later.

Enjoy

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)
[Pagar le Pompe]

Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress Laurel [from the skin
out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth century
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown

> - Is linen the best lining material?  Or should I leave it unlined?

I usually try to like with the same fabric for those kinds of things. I like
wool cloaks with a thinner wool, or leave unlined. I use linen linings for
things that will be touching the skin, such as hoods.

I have several reasons for this. First, linen is much heavier than wool, it
makes for a heavy cloak. It also stretches more when wet, so if your cloak
gets wet the lining will sag and probably hang longer than the wool at the
hem. Also, if it gets wet, although linen is not nearly as bad as cotton in
this respect, it will remain wet longer and be colder than just wool. Wool
keeps you hot even when wet and dries very fast. Also, wool (especially
felted wool) will be rather stiff, and linen stretches a lot, in all
directions, so it works for lining small things like bodices, but will be
fiddly if you try to line a full cloak with it.

That being said, I did it before, and it worked, and a lot of people do it,
and it works, but IMO for a camping cloak it's not the best solution.

> - Is it better to try and match the wool for the lining or can I have
> fun with another colored lining?

Do whatever you like! Just remember: no slippery fabrics for the lining, or
you cloak won't stay put and you'll spend all day trying to readjust it on
your shoulders, keep it from strangling you, etc.

> - Are there any details I can add?  I wasn't planning on a hood since I
> will make a separate liripipe, but I was wondering if there are other
> details I could/should consider adding.

IMO for a camping cloak it's not worth it, you'll be sitting on it and
dragging on the ground and using it as a blanket and so many other uses...
but bands of trim (or, to be more period, woven bands), one on each side,
look great and are easy to apply. It's a lot more fiddly along the neckline.
At the hem, unless you're making a shorter-than-knee-length cloak it's not
worth it usually. It'll get wet and dirty and will hardly be noticed when
you're wearing it.

Good luck!

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Zakhour <sharon.zakhour@...>
wrote:
>
> I am now several pieces into garb for myself and my daughter and I find
> that I'm starting to obsess about a gown I would really like to make.
> Problem is, I am not sure how to go about drafting the pattern - it has
> very interesting armscyes (sp?).  You can see some examples here:
<<snip>>

The funky sleeve-things are called 'grande assiette' sleeves, and only
started to make sense to me when I looked at this website:

http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/grande_assiette_ove\
rview.htm

I hope that the link helps,
Asfridhr

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Cilean Stirling" <cilean@...> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Has anyone used the pattern for bodyes from Tudor Tailor? I was
hoping
> someone can give me some help on this as it is rather light with
> regards to instructions.

what style of bodies are you looking at making and what do you need to
know about the pattern?  if you scale that pattern up it gives you a
size 12 and then from there you would need to resize it to your body
or of you are a size 12 do a tole to check it.  the first mistake that
we made with corsets was to make them too big and did them in denim
which stretches way too much.  My current corset is the Elizabeth
vernon bodies with no tabs but I didnt get there straight from this
pattern I had previously made one from the online corset generator
that didnt fit.  I took that one in till it fit and then used this
pattern to show me seam and strap placement.

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SCA-Garb%40yahoogroups.com>,
"Cilean Stirling" <cilean@...> wrote:
  >
  > Hello!
  >
  > Has anyone used the pattern for bodyes from Tudor Tailor? I was
hoping
  > someone can give me some help on this as it is rather light with
  > regards to instructions.

Where are you getting stuck? I'll go dig out my copy.

Margaret Northwode
...whose copy is currently buried in a small pile of "current" projects,
and needs to be dug out, anyway.

Hello, I totally failed at making a respectable bodice.  I tried 2
commercial patterns, 3 different sizes.  I could never make the four or six
piece bodice match up without the garment being usuable.

How many peices does a generic period bodice?  Any guesses why my edges
would not match up?  I am not totally unfamiliar with a needle but I have to
tell you that this bodice business was a humbling affair.  I finally
succeeded when I taped all the parts into a basic front and back but the fit
was loose and not supportive as I had expected.  I honestly went b. less for
the first time in 40 years.
Jody


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have this pattrn from Tudor Tailor,

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/wwwtudortailor/patternshop.htm

The Tudor Bodyes.  So I am hoping someone has worked with this piece
and would allow me to bring all my junk to get some help with it, I
don't have anyone close whom I can trust to fit me.  My Dress Dummy is
not my complete body shape so I worry that yet again, have the wrong
size again.

Cilean

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Cilean Stirling" <cilean@...> wrote:
>
> I have this pattrn from Tudor Tailor,
> http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/wwwtudortailor/patternshop.htm
> The Tudor Bodyes.  So I am hoping someone has worked with this piece
> and would allow me to bring all my junk to get some help with it, I
> don't have anyone close whom I can trust to fit me.  My Dress Dummy
is not my complete body shape so I worry that yet again, have the
wrong size again.

Ah.  The pairing of any commercial pattern with any human body!
First, a couple of comments on commercial patterns: they are
standardized to...wait for it...not an 'ideal' figure but to an
'average size #' figure.
NO commercial pattern is going to be perfect for you right out of the
envelope unless you are a perfect size Fill-In-The-Dress-Size---and
then only if you're that size all over.  *Every* commercial pattern is
intended as a jumping off point, and it used to be that every young
lady was taught something about altering and fitting; and, even then
as now, some people take to that study more readily than others.
Believe it or not, the "Big Three" and Vogue all work from the same
measurements on what is called a "master" pattern, which is a size 8.
  That size 8 has the same measurements whether it's the basis for a
Vogue haute couture designer dress or a Simplicity super-simple A-line
shift.
I want to assume that "The Tudor Tailor" does, also, but no matter:
that business of adjusting a pattern for you is still essential,
whether it's a Period Pattern cote, or a Margo's Patterns gentleman's
doublet, or a Rockinghorse Farm kirtle or a McCalls Renaissance gown.
  Or, a Butterick pair of capri pants or a Tudor Tailor Tudor bodyes.
What varies in the patterns is what is known as "ease:" there's design
ease, and there's wearing ease.  (For those who are new to sewing,
"ease" is the space between the garment and the body, and there are
instances of 'negative ease,' such as in bathing suits where the
garment must stretch to accomodate the body.)
Let me interject right here that for those of you who are declaring,
"Yseult you doesn't know what she's talking about!  I wear a size 4
when I buy from [Your Favorite Clothier], and according to McCall's
I'd have to wear a Size 18 so I know those pattern companies have no
idea what they're doing," you should be aware of something the
ready-to-wear industry does today: Vanity Sizing.
This is nothing more and nothing less than putting a flattering number
on the size label in order to sell clothing.  The retail industry
observed that a lot of the clothing left on the racks is larger than
size 16 as the clothing industry (and pattern-making industry)
recognizes a 16 based on standard increases from that standardized size 8.
The pattern companies *are* giving it to you straight.
I'd like also to state here that I'm not picking on *anybody's* shape
or size.  I'm what I'd charitably describe as 'substantial,' I've
acquired plenty of gray hairs, and owing to the time spent in the
acquisition, I'm also witnessing the effects of gravity on all the
soft places.  AND: if I were nothing but skin and bones I *still*
couldn't wear a true size 4, or for that matter a size 8, because
neither would ever accomodate the width of my shoulders or the breadth
of my pelvic girdle.

Forgive the digression.
All of the above (except what is personal to me) is to say, if you're
wanting custom-fitted clothing, which most period stuff, especially
the latter half of what SCA calls its period, you've got to have
what's called a 'sloper' from which and with which to work, or you
have to be able to direct-drape.
Rashid can refine this definition, I think, but a 'sloper' is in
essence a two-dimensional map of your three-dimensional body---or
perhaps I should say that's how it's used.
You alter the pattern to fit *your* body, pattern ease and all;
fitting is done on your figure whether that's your physical body or
your dress-making dummy.  However, you've said that your dress-making
dummy isn't your "complete shape," so I'm guessing either it's
commercial, too, and intended for modern clothing, or if the dummy
you're using is a paper tape or a duct-tape model, your shape has
changed since that dummy was made for you.  Either way, I'd say you
can't rely on it for this particular project.

Here's a past article from "Threads" magazine on slopers and using them.
http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00036.asp

Cilean, I'll bet someone on list would be happy to get together with
you, but we don't know where you *are.*  If you're in, say, An Tir and
a would-be helper lives in Trimaris or Meridies or the East, it's
going to be harder to pull off a meeting between you.
If you can get here---Ohio---I'd be happy to help you.
But with or without another pair of hands (which is, I'll grant you,
the easier way), you do want to do some fiddling about with both a
sloper and a toile (a muslin of the [altered] pattern, and not the
same as a test garment, which latter should be done in a fabric
similar to the fashion fabric you're going to use.)

Yseult the Gentle

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Jody Richter" <jody2u2@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, I totally failed at making a respectable bodice.  I tried 2
> commercial patterns, 3 different sizes.  I could never make the four
or six
> piece bodice match up without the garment being usuable.

Oh, frustrating!
But you haven't "totally failed" until you quit, give up and refuse to
try ever again.  Meanwhile, you're *learning.*
If you're making a late-period bodice, and have four or six pieces,
I'm guessing you've got a commercial pattern by one of the Big Three?
>
> How many peices does a generic period bodice?

Presuming this means "late period," like a ren faire bodice, I'll say
three pieces.  One that completely covers the front and sides, and two
for the remainder of the torso, meaning the back and that's where the
lacing will be; or one that completely covers the back and sides, and
two for the front, which is where the lacing will be.  If the pattern
has side-underarm placement of the seams, that's okay, it'll still be
three pieces.

Any guesses why my edges
> would not match up?

Sometimes it really is the pattern.  Stuff happens, mistakes are made
before those patterns get into envelopes, and you can follow their
directions perfectly and still have something that isn't usable.  It's
not necessarily you.
Other things that can affect match-up: the fabric, for one. If the
fabric is very heavy or has a nap, you'll want to cut in single layers
to try to keep slippage or creeping to a minimum, because both of
those will result in the respective garment pieces being mismatched,
size-wise.  For a "place on fold of fabric" pattern piece, I'd
recommend either making a doubled, full-size pattern piece having the
right and left half all in one.  Or---and as you probably know this
has more opportunity to be less than precise---figure out where the
fold of the fabric would be, keep the fabric flat, cut out whichever
half the pattern is and then, before unpinning the paper, *pin the
fold-line of the pattern to the fabric,* with the pins' length running
along the fold-line's length.  Make a little nick at the top and
bottom of the fold-line in the fabric, to mark the center fold.  Then
unpin the rest of the pattern except the fold line, and fold it over
and repin it, so you can cut out the other half.  This is kind of
tedious but in my experience there's less chance of a heavy or
slippery or napped fabric shifting on you or distorting because of the
fabric's thickness itself.

I am not totally unfamiliar with a needle but I have to
> tell you that this bodice business was a humbling affair.  I finally
> succeeded when I taped all the parts into a basic front and back but
the fit
> was loose and not supportive as I had expected.

I just wrote a long post in resonse to Cilean's similar situation.
Pattern sizes and proportions are standardized---human bodies are not.
  Modern clothing is intended to be worn over modern foundation
garments, *and* a lot of it is still intended to "skim" the form
rather than either to delineate it or to define its shape.
Modern "historical costume" patterns may still presume you're going to
be wearing this "renaissance bodice *look*" over your modern bra.
Late period bodices are intended to emulate a male torso on a female
body, which means the breasts have to be compressed and, usually,
lifted.  Definitely a no-bra appearance!

Out-of-the-envelope a pattern isn't likely to fit *you* exactly or
even correctly, no matter who you are or what your size is.
"Multiple sizing" in a pattern is useful for modern clothing when your
bottom is a full size or two larger than your top, or vice versa, but
it's not going to be as helpful if what you want is a period-looking
and period-functioning garment.

I'll make the same suggestion as I did for Cilean.  Make yourself a
sloper, a two-dimensional map of your three dimensional body, and use it.
http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00036.asp

Some observations on evaluating patterns before you cut into them:
http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00027.asp

Yseult the Gentle

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Cilean Stirling" <cilean@...> wrote:

I haven't worked with that pattern, so I can't advise there.

   My Dress Dummy is
> not my complete body shape so I worry that yet again, have the wrong
> size again.

I can tell you that even if your dress dummy was exactly your size and
shape, it probably wouldn't help becuae the bust still would not be
precisely as squishable or the exact same weight as yours.

Once you have your corset completed, if you can make you dummy fit it,
then you can fit the gown over it.

Rashid

--- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "borderlands15213"
<borderlands15213@...> wrote:
>
snip

> All of the above (except what is personal to me) is to say, if
you're
> wanting custom-fitted clothing, which most period stuff, especially
> the latter half of what SCA calls its period, you've got to have
> what's called a 'sloper' from which and with which to work, or you
> have to be able to direct-drape.
> Rashid can refine this definition, I think, but a 'sloper' is in
> essence a two-dimensional map of your three-dimensional body---or
> perhaps I should say that's how it's used.
> You alter the pattern to fit *your* body, pattern ease and all;
> fitting is done on your figure whether that's your physical body or
> your dress-making dummy.

No, I wouldn't change your definition, it's an excellent one.

But I do feel that there is something needed that modern tailoring
and dressmaking have no word for...  It would be like a sloper, but
unlike a sloper which is a map of the "normal" shape of your body,
you need a sloper for your body as it will be modified by the way
your corset will hold you in and up.  It's quite difficult to go from
a sloper of your natural shape to a pattern that will provide support
or compression of the bust because that support and compression will
change the shape so it is no longe natural.

One way to achieve this is by borrowing a paire of bodies and making
them fit by basting a tuck in them or lacing them with a wide gap or
some such trick.  Then you can drape a sloper over that and use that
sloper for making the corset pattern.

Another way to do this is by taking a pattern from a GFD or
supportive cotte and drafting out the curves on the side and
modifying the curve in the front.  The reason this will work is that
a GFD has already lifted and compressed the bust into the same
position that a corset will hold them.

A third (and more tedious alternative) is to keep working on the
pattern like it was a normal fitting.  But because the garment is
supposed to modify the position of the bust, it's harder to fit since
it changes your shape when you put it on.  It will take a lot
more "put it on, adjust it, take it off, try again" than a normal
pattern.  And you really can't know how it will work until the bones
are on.  To accomplish this, I make two triangular panels with boning
in approximately the size and shape of the front of the corset and
baste them onto the front of the toile.  That will allow you to see
how it will fit when the boning is installed.

Rashid

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone who knows about 15-16th century German dress could
help me out. I'm trying to work out if there is a specific style or
'name' for the sort of dress that I'm looking at.

The first is a line drawing from the 15th century grave of Elizabeth
of Brandenburg, which is in Legnica. From what I understand, Legnica
was a part of the Austrian Habsburg kingdom at the time, but parts
were also in Brandenburg.
http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/Costume/Ubior/38%20copy.jpg

The second image is of Durers' 'Livonian Lady' from 1521.
http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/aklypin/ART/Durer/images/S_LivonianLady-durer-louvre.j\
pg

To me, these two drawings look related, and am wondering if there are
any more illustrations of dresses in this particular style? Do any
German-costumers here have a special name for that gown type? Or am I
merely going batty?

Any help is appreciated,
Asfridhr

Thank you Yseult for your very informative reply. She's in West
Kingdom just north of me a few hours. I've replied to her offlist.

Joane


On Feb 11, 2008, at 4:39 AM, borderlands15213 wrote:

> Cilean, I'll bet someone on list would be happy to get together with
> you, but we don't know where you *are.*



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unless you have a specially made dress dummy where they fit your body
with a type of wire then use that to make you dummy it is hard to
adujust the dunny to make it the right size. This web site tell  you
how to use foam rubber and duct tape and make your dummy the right size
and then put your under garments on the dummy such as corset to fit
your dress on to get it the right size

http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/draping/setup.shtml

shows how to fix your dress dummy and it has many good sewing ideas.
Some women who are well endowed have to make some over layer
adjustments on the dress dummy.

I have some 100% linen that I'd like to dye a nice saffron (for an
Irish leine), but I'm not sure how to go about it. Do folk use Rit dye?
Any suggestions? Thanks!
Mairghread
AnTir