I will be sending in the schedule later today. I'm still waiting for a few
confirmations, but here is the tentative schedule:

Thursday - Level 1 Instructors Course (there is a fee for this course as it
results in a national certification, class limit & instructor approval needed)
     * Some open shooting may be available during the lecture part of this
course, pending Range Marshal availability
Friday AM - Barony of Nordwache will host novelties
Friday PM - Barony of Gyldenholt will host
Saturday - Grand Masters Tourney - all are welcome to participate, double
elimination RR
Sunday AM - Barony of Lyondemere will host

More details and a few other possible things coming soon.

Christina




________________________________
From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:22:56 PM
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War


I was looking at the web site for Great Western War and could not
find any information about target archery other than the location of
the archery range.  Does anyone have information on what the
competitions will be?

Jon




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you.  I will be looking forward to learning more.

Jon

On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica E Baas wrote:

> I will be sending in the schedule later today. I'm still waiting
> for a few confirmations, but here is the tentative schedule:
>
> Thursday - Level 1 Instructors Course (there is a fee for this
> course as it results in a national certification, class limit &
> instructor approval needed)
> * Some open shooting may be available during the lecture part of
> this course, pending Range Marshal availability
> Friday AM - Barony of Nordwache will host novelties
> Friday PM - Barony of Gyldenholt will host
> Saturday - Grand Masters Tourney - all are welcome to participate,
> double elimination RR
> Sunday AM - Barony of Lyondemere will host
>
> More details and a few other possible things coming soon.
>
> Christina
>
> ________________________________
> From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
> To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:22:56 PM
> Subject: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War
>
> I was looking at the web site for Great Western War and could not
> find any information about target archery other than the location of
> the archery range. Does anyone have information on what the
> competitions will be?
>
> Jon
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Will the target backstops be crossbow bolt friendly?  Or will they
eat short crossbow bolts?

Jon, West

On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica E Baas wrote:

> I will be sending in the schedule later today. I'm still waiting
> for a few confirmations, but here is the tentative schedule:
>
> Thursday - Level 1 Instructors Course (there is a fee for this
> course as it results in a national certification, class limit &
> instructor approval needed)
> * Some open shooting may be available during the lecture part of
> this course, pending Range Marshal availability
> Friday AM - Barony of Nordwache will host novelties
> Friday PM - Barony of Gyldenholt will host
> Saturday - Grand Masters Tourney - all are welcome to participate,
> double elimination RR
> Sunday AM - Barony of Lyondemere will host
>
> More details and a few other possible things coming soon.
>
> Christina
>
> ________________________________
> From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
> To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:22:56 PM
> Subject: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War
>
> I was looking at the web site for Great Western War and could not
> find any information about target archery other than the location of
> the archery range. Does anyone have information on what the
> competitions will be?
>
> Jon
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Last year we had close cell foam in front of the hay bales, which stopped most
bolts even from the heaviest of crossbows. We plan on improving the range this
year.

So yes, crossbows will be allowed.

Christian




________________________________
From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 9:55:41 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War


Will the target backstops be crossbow bolt friendly?  Or will they
eat short crossbow bolts?

Jon, West

On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica E Baas wrote:

> I will be sending in the schedule later today. I'm still waiting
> for a few confirmations, but here is the tentative schedule:
>
> Thursday - Level 1 Instructors Course (there is a fee for this
> course as it results in a national certification, class limit &
> instructor approval needed)
> * Some open shooting may be available during the lecture part of
> this course, pending Range Marshal availability
> Friday AM - Barony of Nordwache will host novelties
> Friday PM - Barony of Gyldenholt will host
> Saturday - Grand Masters Tourney - all are welcome to participate,
> double elimination RR
> Sunday AM - Barony of Lyondemere will host
>
> More details and a few other possible things coming soon.
>
> Christina
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: John edgerton <sirjon1@pacbell. net>
> To: SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:22:56 PM
> Subject: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War
>
> I was looking at the web site for Great Western War and could not
> find any information about target archery other than the location of
> the archery range. Does anyone have information on what the
> competitions will be?
>
> Jon
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent.

Thank you

Jon
On Aug 4, 2009, at 12:10 PM, Jessica E Baas wrote:

> Last year we had close cell foam in front of the hay bales, which
> stopped most bolts even from the heaviest of crossbows. We plan on
> improving the range this year.
>
> So yes, crossbows will be allowed.
>
> Christian
>
> ________________________________
> From: John edgerton <sirjon1@...>
> To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 9:55:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War
>
> Will the target backstops be crossbow bolt friendly? Or will they
> eat short crossbow bolts?
>
> Jon, West
>
> On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica E Baas wrote:
>
> > I will be sending in the schedule later today. I'm still waiting
> > for a few confirmations, but here is the tentative schedule:
> >
> > Thursday - Level 1 Instructors Course (there is a fee for this
> > course as it results in a national certification, class limit &
> > instructor approval needed)
> > * Some open shooting may be available during the lecture part of
> > this course, pending Range Marshal availability
> > Friday AM - Barony of Nordwache will host novelties
> > Friday PM - Barony of Gyldenholt will host
> > Saturday - Grand Masters Tourney - all are welcome to participate,
> > double elimination RR
> > Sunday AM - Barony of Lyondemere will host
> >
> > More details and a few other possible things coming soon.
> >
> > Christina
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: John edgerton <sirjon1@pacbell. net>
> > To: SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:22:56 PM
> > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Great Western War
> >
> > I was looking at the web site for Great Western War and could not
> > find any information about target archery other than the location of
> > the archery range. Does anyone have information on what the
> > competitions will be?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just a reminder if you have not already sent your comments to the
BoD.  The deadline for comments is September 1.

This proposal could affect: Rapier fighters. Target and combat
archers.  Equestrians.  Siege engineers.  And thrown weapon users.

Please read all of the the proposal before sending your comments to
the BOD.

Please forward this to any lists or people that may be interested.

Thank you

Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf, West



The below is forwarded from the BOD.
*******************************************************

The Board of Directors and President of the Society for Creative
Anachronism, Inc., have received an independent survey regarding
potential changes to the Peerage Orders. Following our procedures for
receipt of this type of information, The President and Board of
Directors are seeking your comments and opinions. The complete packet
can be
reviewed at

   http://www.sca.org/4peerage


   We request comments from the membership regarding this subject no
later
than September 1, 2009. Please send them to:

SCA Inc.
Box 360789
Milpitas CA, 95036
email: comments at sca.org
--
Patrick Anderson
President
Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
president at sca.org
952-412-4112




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the Board of
Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again and then resubmit is
again it is rejected.  When are you going to stop forcing this issue. You are a
triple Peer. I get the feeling you are doing this only so you can have another
Peerage.

It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead

Iain Griffen

Though Sir Jon  and I have never met face to face, we have
communicated many times over the years and I feel I have some
knowledge of the man.  I believe he honestly is putting this forward
for the reasons he states.  Many years age there were only knights as
peers.  Then the artists were recognized, and finally (after
considerable dissension) those who served as officers and in other
roles.  Over the years it has seemed that there are others who also
participate in ways which do not get recognized through the existing
channels.  Whether such recognition is desired, warranted, necessary,
or even needed is a matter for discussion.  In the past, the
presentation of the idea was generally rejected out of hand without a
proper opportunity for comment and discussion.  This discussion is
what Sir Jon has been asking for and now has.  There is a deadline,
comments have come in.  Allow the matter to be considered, reviewed,
and the BoD to take the action the commentary calls for.  Then we can
rightly call the matter closed.
Carolus


At 09:32 PM 8/5/2009, you wrote:
>During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the
>Board of Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again
>and then resubmit is again it is rejected.  When are you going to
>stop forcing this issue. You are a triple Peer. I get the feeling
>you are doing this only so you can have another Peerage.
>
>It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead
>
>Iain Griffen

It has only been rewritten once.   The current proposal is the second
rewrite. To the best of my knowledge it has not yet been rejected by
the BoD.  If you know differently, please let me know.

Your feeling as to my reasons for doing this is incorrect and I find
it rather insulting as well.  I have stated my reasons many times on
the SCA 4 Peerage Yahoo group, if you wish to read them there.  I am
now arthritic and my vision is getting worse.  My scores and skill
are not what they used to be a few years ago and it is unlikely that
they will ever improve to a peerage level.

The horse is not yet dead. It is alive and well and just keeps
trotting along.

Jon

On Aug 5, 2009, at 9:32 PM, i_griffen wrote:

> During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the
> Board of Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is
> again and then resubmit is again it is rejected. When are you going
> to stop forcing this issue. You are a triple Peer. I get the
> feeling you are doing this only so you can have another Peerage.
>
> It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead
>
> Iain Griffen
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Down boy even if you don't agree with this proposal (as I don't) you can
remain civil

Damales





During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the Board of
Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again and then
resubmit is again it is rejected. When are you going to stop forcing this
issue. You are a triple Peer. I get the feeling you are doing this only so
you can have another Peerage.

It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead

Iain Griffen




   ----------


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2284 - Release Date: 08/05/09
18:23:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I personally don't favor the proposal, but I commend Sir Jon and his
collaborators for working very hard, through the proper channels, to try to
effect changes they want. There are many, many people on SCA lists who
repeatedly gripe about how this or that should be banned, but they never *do*
anything to get the rules changed.

Tibbie Croser, Barony of Storvik, Kingdom of Atlantia, fencer and possible
future target archer

--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
>
> During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the Board of
Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again and then resubmit is
again it is rejected.  When are you going to stop forcing this issue. You are a
triple Peer. I get the feeling you are doing this only so you can have another
Peerage.
>
> It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead
>
> Iain Griffen
>

Greetings to the hall,

I for one being a rookie (1 year) to the SCA and also a merchant would like to
see this Peerage pass. As the archery events are the only extra curricular
activities I get to enjoy. When you merchant you don't have time to fight in
heavy weapons or rapier. It would be nice to get reconized for skills other then
heavy fighting .

Just my 2 cents,

Arkayn

Hi, all! Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. Below is most of the feedback I
myself sent to the SCA comments email address...
Eibhlin


I am for either a fourth Peerage (preferrable) or officially making a Peerage
recognition "the other half" of OL (if that makes it easier to swallow) even
though that may not make much sense, having A&S as one half & weapons/equestrian
as the other half. I am still relatively new to the SCA. I have no rank, nor am
I in a Peerage group. The Chivalry is for Knights (oath of fealty) & Mastery of
Arms (no oath of fealty), the Laurels have theirs for excellence in A&S, and the
Pelicans have theirs for excellence in service. What about those of us who do
not do heavy combat or have yet to excel in A&S or may never hold a
kingdom/society level office?

There is a Peerage for those who do great service to their kingdom with heavy
weapons but not a Peerage for those who do great service with non-rattan
weapons? There is a Peerage to include those who do beautiful & delicate
embroidery but not for those who know how to handle a beautiful horse on a
field? It definitely seems to me that since there is Peerage recognition for
some who excel but not for all who excel, that a slight re-organization can be
done in order that all who are dedicated (to learning about x, participating in
x, & teaching others what they've learned about x so that they too may excel in
x) might have equal opportunity to attain Peerage status.





--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "tibbiecroser" <kmackavanagh@...> wrote:
>
> I personally don't favor the proposal, but I commend Sir Jon and his
collaborators for working very hard, through the proper channels, to try to
effect changes they want. There are many, many people on SCA lists who
repeatedly gripe about how this or that should be banned, but they never *do*
anything to get the rules changed.
>
> Tibbie Croser, Barony of Storvik, Kingdom of Atlantia, fencer and possible
future target archer
>
> --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "i_griffen" <i_griffen@> wrote:
> >
> > During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the Board of
Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again and then resubmit is
again it is rejected.  When are you going to stop forcing this issue. You are a
triple Peer. I get the feeling you are doing this only so you can have another
Peerage.
> >
> > It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead
> >
> > Iain Griffen
> >
>

I need to make some correction before this gets out of hand .. post inserted
below.

   _____

From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Beth Kilburn
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:29 AM
To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: additional Peerage Proposal ....final comments





Hi, all! Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. Below is most of the feedback I
myself sent to the SCA comments email address...
Eibhlin

I am for either a fourth Peerage (preferrable) or officially making a
Peerage recognition "the other half" of OL (if that makes it easier to
swallow) even though that may not make much sense, having A&S as one half &
weapons/equestrian as the other half. I am still relatively new to the SCA.
I have no rank, nor am I in a Peerage group. The Chivalry is for Knights
(oath of fealty) & Mastery of Arms (no oath of fealty), the Laurels have
theirs for excellence in A&S, and the Pelicans have theirs for excellence in
service. What about those of us who do not do heavy combat or have yet to
excel in A&S or may never hold a kingdom/society level office?

There is a Peerage for those who do great service to their kingdom with
heavy weapons but not a Peerage for those who do great service with
non-rattan weapons?

/ no service is service you can get a pelican for  anything in this group it
just a measure of work for the group

There is a Peerage to include those who do beautiful & delicate embroidery
but not for those who know how to handle a beautiful horse on a field?

Wrong again  riding well can get you invited into the order of the Laurel.
(I know that's how I got invited)

  It definitely seems to me that since there is Peerage recognition for some
who excel but not for all who excel, that a slight re-organization can be
done in order that all who are dedicated (to learning about x, participating
in x, & teaching others what they've learned about x so that they too may
excel in x) might have equal opportunity to attain Peerage status.

What is at odds here is NON RATTAN COMBAT.  This is a whole in our group
that does not fit in service, A&S or  Rattan combat (chivalry)

Damales Redbeard O.L.



--- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"tibbiecroser" <kmackavanagh@...> wrote:
>
> I personally don't favor the proposal, but I commend Sir Jon and his
collaborators for working very hard, through the proper channels, to try to
effect changes they want. There are many, many people on SCA lists who
repeatedly gripe about how this or that should be banned, but they never
*do* anything to get the rules changed.
>
> Tibbie Croser, Barony of Storvik, Kingdom of Atlantia, fencer and possible
future target archer
>
> --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "i_griffen" <i_griffen@> wrote:
> >
> > During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the
Board of Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again and
then resubmit is again it is rejected. When are you going to stop forcing
this issue. You are a triple Peer. I get the feeling you are doing this only
so you can have another Peerage.
> >
> > It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead
> >
> > Iain Griffen
> >
>




   ----------


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
05:57:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friends and comradres lets be civil and try not to start any flame wars (it
hasnt yet but its getting a lil warm)... there are differences in opinion on
this and guess what, if you have an opinion that's what this proposal is about.
Submit your comments to BoD; both pro and con are welcome. :)

Personally, I find I am on the fence with the 4th peerage idea. I am all for
recognizing people for thier talents and strengths but whether or not they "fit"
into one of the 3 exisitng peerages or if a new one should be created is a
tricky thing to figure out. Many have argued that any of the non-rattan fighters
can fit into either of the 3 existing peerages and I can see that but only in a
certain sense. Like fitting a round peg into a square hole....it can fit if its
the right size; the mission could be accomplished but was it really meant to be
by that method? I am finding ways I can fit a peerage through archery (both
target and combat) in either Chivalry or Laurel pathway myself; a personal
vendetta of course to see if its possible. But then again after all there are
Knights who made it not by sword and board but rather (ie)spear; rare but
possible. Then at the the same I would like to see a peerage for what specific
discipline it is suppose to encompass... but specific to one "class" so a
"catch-all" peerage I think is a bad idea. Equal recognition for each different
discipline could be complicated still even with a peerage that catches all
[others].

Best I can do at this point is share my opinion, submit my comments to the BoD
thingy then get out there (events), play, fight, shoot, create/recreate, make
friends, learn, teach etc but most importantly have fun.

Respectfully,

Rohesia
Shire of Border Vale Keep
Kingdom of Atlantia

I apologize for not knowing one who excels in horsemanship would be able to
maybe achieve peerage in OL. Given that, aside from the equestrian part of my
statement, I'm still under the impression a fourth peerage or an "amendment" to
OL should still be seriously considered.

Master Damales Redbeard, When you say, "no service is service you can get a
pelican for  anything in this group it just a measure of work for the group",
what exactly does that mean?

Eibhlin


--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Scheid" <damales@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I need to make some correction before this gets out of hand .. post inserted
> below.
>
>   _____
>
> From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Beth Kilburn
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:29 AM
> To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: additional Peerage Proposal ....final comments
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi, all! Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. Below is most of the feedback I
> myself sent to the SCA comments email address...
> Eibhlin
>
> I am for either a fourth Peerage (preferrable) or officially making a
> Peerage recognition "the other half" of OL (if that makes it easier to
> swallow) even though that may not make much sense, having A&S as one half &
> weapons/equestrian as the other half. I am still relatively new to the SCA.
> I have no rank, nor am I in a Peerage group. The Chivalry is for Knights
> (oath of fealty) & Mastery of Arms (no oath of fealty), the Laurels have
> theirs for excellence in A&S, and the Pelicans have theirs for excellence in
> service. What about those of us who do not do heavy combat or have yet to
> excel in A&S or may never hold a kingdom/society level office?
>
> There is a Peerage for those who do great service to their kingdom with
> heavy weapons but not a Peerage for those who do great service with
> non-rattan weapons?
>
> / no service is service you can get a pelican for  anything in this group it
> just a measure of work for the group
>
> There is a Peerage to include those who do beautiful & delicate embroidery
> but not for those who know how to handle a beautiful horse on a field?
>
> Wrong again  riding well can get you invited into the order of the Laurel.
> (I know that's how I got invited)
>
>  It definitely seems to me that since there is Peerage recognition for some
> who excel but not for all who excel, that a slight re-organization can be
> done in order that all who are dedicated (to learning about x, participating
> in x, & teaching others what they've learned about x so that they too may
> excel in x) might have equal opportunity to attain Peerage status.
>
> What is at odds here is NON RATTAN COMBAT.  This is a whole in our group
> that does not fit in service, A&S or  Rattan combat (chivalry)
>
> Damales Redbeard O.L.
>
>
>
> --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
> "tibbiecroser" <kmackavanagh@> wrote:
> >
> > I personally don't favor the proposal, but I commend Sir Jon and his
> collaborators for working very hard, through the proper channels, to try to
> effect changes they want. There are many, many people on SCA lists who
> repeatedly gripe about how this or that should be banned, but they never
> *do* anything to get the rules changed.
> >
> > Tibbie Croser, Barony of Storvik, Kingdom of Atlantia, fencer and possible
> future target archer
> >
> > --- In SCA-Archery@ <mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com, "i_griffen" <i_griffen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > During the past 10 years You have been putting this in front of the
> Board of Directors. They have been rejecting it You rewrite is again and
> then resubmit is again it is rejected. When are you going to stop forcing
> this issue. You are a triple Peer. I get the feeling you are doing this only
> so you can have another Peerage.
> > >
> > > It may be a good idea to let the dead horse stay dead
> > >
> > > Iain Griffen
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>   ----------
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
05:57:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Master Damales Redbeard, When you say, "no service is service you can get a
pelican for anything in this group it just a measure of work for the group",
what exactly does that mean?

Eibhlin

-in simple terms work is work. pelicans are the work horses. It does not
matter if your cleaning toilets or out standing in the sun marshalling if
you are doing service  to the group. You are doing the work that pelicans
recognized for. I have seen more then one archery and rapier  pel made for
there "work" to better the game.

Make since?






   ----------


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Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
05:57:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I suspect that is only confusing due to a lack of punctuation...  My 'take' on
that comment was that it should read thusly:

"No, service is service.  You can get a Pelican for anything in this group.  It
is just a measure of work for the group."

Lord Antony


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Beth Kilburn
   To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:45 PM
   Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: additional Peerage Proposal ....final comments


     Master Damales Redbeard, When you say, "no service is service you can get a
pelican for anything in this group it just a measure of work for the group",
what exactly does that mean?

   Eibhlin


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I apologize for not knowing one who excels in horsemanship would be able to
maybe achieve peerage in OL. Given that, aside from the equestrian part of
my statement, I'm still under the impression a fourth peerage or an
"amendment" to OL should still be seriously considered.



Eibhlin._,__

  I will respectfully disagree. And here is why . Art and science are
something that is insulted. Your goal is to make the best widget you can or
to develop the best theory on how the moon moves. I does not matter what you
friend is doing. The goal is for YOU to do the best You can.

  COMBAT is 180 deg. Different.  Your goal is to best your opponent. . You do
not have to pull your bow absolutely correctly to get a shot on your
opponent. You can bounce all over you horses back if you can place your
lance on his shield . You goal is not to make it perfect. Your goal it to
make your opponent to miss or to make a mistake.

See the difference? This is why I feel it should be place in the Chivalry

Damales

_


   ----------


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
05:57:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, it does! Thank you for clearing that up for me!
Eibhlin


--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Scheid" <damales@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Master Damales Redbeard, When you say, "no service is service you can get a
> pelican for anything in this group it just a measure of work for the group",
> what exactly does that mean?
>
> Eibhlin
>
> -in simple terms work is work. pelicans are the work horses. It does not
> matter if your cleaning toilets or out standing in the sun marshalling if
> you are doing service  to the group. You are doing the work that pelicans
> recognized for. I have seen more then one archery and rapier  pel made for
> there "work" to better the game.
>
> Make since?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ----------
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
05:57:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

But the intent of the proposals is to gain peerage recognition for
those that have the peerage level qualifications and excel in the
"skills" of one of those fields, e.g. archery, rapier, equestrian,
etc.  If you do service, it is a Pelican.  If you do arts and science
work or research it is a Laurel.

Jon

On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Dan Scheid wrote:

>
>
> Master Damales Redbeard, When you say, "no service is service you
> can get a
> pelican for anything in this group it just a measure of work for
> the group",
> what exactly does that mean?
>
> Eibhlin
>
> -in simple terms work is work. pelicans are the work horses. It
> does not
> matter if your cleaning toilets or out standing in the sun
> marshalling if
> you are doing service to the group. You are doing the work that
> pelicans
> recognized for. I have seen more then one archery and rapier pel
> made for
> there "work" to better the game.
>
> Make since?
>
> ----------
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date:
> 08/06/09 05:57:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I actually agree that the OL isn't the place for non-rattan combat peerage skill
recognition, at least not as the OL stands now and it I don't think it'd be fair
to change the OL to accomodate combat to go along side A&S in the same peerage
group unless all peerage belong to the same group, but the SCA has advanced way
beyond that point. Ok, right now I'm just rambling, huh? That's why a fourth
peerage is preferable.

Guess I should've stated my disagreement to even that particular part - that if
non-rattan combat peerage skill recognition be side by side with another
peerage, then Chivarly be considered. But is that something that should be
considered? Maybe it would just be easier on everyone involved if a fourth
peerage be made. Is peerage skill non-rattan combat the only peerage skill level
not already covered? Might should consider them, too, if any, while we're at
it... Ok, I'm starting to get a headache now.



--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Scheid" <damales@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I apologize for not knowing one who excels in horsemanship would be able to
> maybe achieve peerage in OL. Given that, aside from the equestrian part of
> my statement, I'm still under the impression a fourth peerage or an
> "amendment" to OL should still be seriously considered.
>
>
>
> Eibhlin._,__
>
>  I will respectfully disagree. And here is why . Art and science are
> something that is insulted. Your goal is to make the best widget you can or
> to develop the best theory on how the moon moves. I does not matter what you
> friend is doing. The goal is for YOU to do the best You can.
>
>  COMBAT is 180 deg. Different.  Your goal is to best your opponent. . You do
> not have to pull your bow absolutely correctly to get a shot on your
> opponent. You can bounce all over you horses back if you can place your
> lance on his shield . You goal is not to make it perfect. Your goal it to
> make your opponent to miss or to make a mistake.
>
> See the difference? This is why I feel it should be place in the Chivalry
>
> Damales
>
> _
>
>
>   ----------
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
05:57:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Scheid" <damales@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Master Damales Redbeard, When you say, "no service is service you can get a
> pelican for anything in this group it just a measure of work for the group",
> what exactly does that mean?
>
> Eibhlin
>
> -in simple terms work is work. pelicans are the work horses. It does not
> matter if your cleaning toilets or out standing in the sun marshalling if
> you are doing service  to the group. You are doing the work that pelicans
> recognized for. I have seen more then one archery and rapier  pel made for
> there "work" to better the game.
>
> Make since?
>
>
>
>
I Also have see people over looked for doing the above. the main reason given
(was because their personal opinion and ideal were different)

The problem is that it looks good on "paper" to say non rattan combat
should be encompassed in Chivalry. But when you read about Chivalry it
states prowess in tournaments. That said, name me what crown
tournament allowed for an archer or rapier combatant to compete??  And
add in the fact that if you don't know or practice "sword and board"
its doesn't matter what non rattan discipline you excel in you will
most likely dare I say not be considered for a peerage in Chivalry.
Hence the reasoning behind a fourth peerage. :)

Advance thought on the other end of the spectrum is that as a peer you
a laurel, knight or pelican of the SCA not such-n-such Kingdom. So how
can a peerage be created if not every Kingdom has rapier or combat
archery. Then (rambling on myself lol) one could argue back that not
every Kingdom has soap makers but they could still obtain a peerage in
OL.

This is like a circle....round and round the debate can go. But its
good... It can bring change or at the very least an awareness of a
long standing issue in the way we allow ourselves and other to play
the game.

~Rohesia

On 8/6/09, Beth Kilburn <iamanirishrose@...> wrote:
> I actually agree that the OL isn't the place for non-rattan combat peerage
> skill recognition, at least not as the OL stands now and it I don't think
> it'd be fair to change the OL to accomodate combat to go along side A&S in
> the same peerage group unless all peerage belong to the same group, but the
> SCA has advanced way beyond that point. Ok, right now I'm just rambling,
> huh? That's why a fourth peerage is preferable.
>
> Guess I should've stated my disagreement to even that particular part - that
> if non-rattan combat peerage skill recognition be side by side with another
> peerage, then Chivarly be considered. But is that something that should be
> considered? Maybe it would just be easier on everyone involved if a fourth
> peerage be made. Is peerage skill non-rattan combat the only peerage skill
> level not already covered? Might should consider them, too, if any, while
> we're at it... Ok, I'm starting to get a headache now.
>
>
>
> --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Scheid" <damales@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I apologize for not knowing one who excels in horsemanship would be able
>> to
>> maybe achieve peerage in OL. Given that, aside from the equestrian part of
>> my statement, I'm still under the impression a fourth peerage or an
>> "amendment" to OL should still be seriously considered.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eibhlin._,__
>>
>>  I will respectfully disagree. And here is why . Art and science are
>> something that is insulted. Your goal is to make the best widget you can
>> or
>> to develop the best theory on how the moon moves. I does not matter what
>> you
>> friend is doing. The goal is for YOU to do the best You can.
>>
>>  COMBAT is 180 deg. Different.  Your goal is to best your opponent. . You
>> do
>> not have to pull your bow absolutely correctly to get a shot on your
>> opponent. You can bounce all over you horses back if you can place your
>> lance on his shield . You goal is not to make it perfect. Your goal it to
>> make your opponent to miss or to make a mistake.
>>
>> See the difference? This is why I feel it should be place in the Chivalry
>>
>> Damales
>>
>> _
>>
>>
>>   ----------
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
>> 05:57:00
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device

I am new to this group, and I am relatively new to the SCA.  I joined in
January.  My boys and I are interested in target archery, and we participate
with a wonderful group of people at practice on Wednesday evenings in the Barony
of Sternfeld, Constellation region, Middle Kingdom (Indianapolis, IN).  My kids
and I have enjoyed ourselves thus far, and we plan to be as involved as our busy
lives will allow.

Eadric of Grenfeld

Welcome!



Warning ... target archery is very addicting! But I'm sure you will have a grand
time :)

~ Namaste
Alivia






To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
From: lighttrek@...
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:05:31 +0000
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Greetings





I am new to this group, and I am relatively new to the SCA. I joined in January.
My boys and I are interested in target archery, and we participate with a
wonderful group of people at practice on Wednesday evenings in the Barony of
Sternfeld, Constellation region, Middle Kingdom (Indianapolis, IN). My kids and
I have enjoyed ourselves thus far, and we plan to be as involved as our busy
lives will allow.

Eadric of Grenfeld









_________________________________________________________________
Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you.  Yes, target archery is addicting.  I was not able to go to Pensic,
and there has not been archery practice for the last three weeks.  I'm going
through withdrawal!

Eadric of Grenfeld
 
Cleve Johnson
lighttrek@...
www.books.lighttrek.com
 
"Fortitudine vincimus"
(By endurance we conquer)





________________________________
From: Tisha Bakke <dark_shayde@...>
To: sca-archery@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 3:01:14 PM
Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Greetings

 

Welcome!

Warning ... target archery is very addicting! But I'm sure you will have a grand
time :)

~ Namaste
Alivia

To: SCA-Archery@ yahoogroups. com
From: lighttrek@sbcglobal .net
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:05:31 +0000
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Greetings

I am new to this group, and I am relatively new to the SCA. I joined in January.
My boys and I are interested in target archery, and we participate with a
wonderful group of people at practice on Wednesday evenings in the Barony of
Sternfeld, Constellation region, Middle Kingdom (Indianapolis, IN). My kids and
I have enjoyed ourselves thus far, and we plan to be as involved as our busy
lives will allow.

Eadric of Grenfeld

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Eadric! Welcome to the group!
Eibhlin
Kingdom of Gleann Abhann


--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "lighttrek@..." <lighttrek@...> wrote:
>
> I am new to this group, and I am relatively new to the SCA.  I joined in
January.  My boys and I are interested in target archery, and we participate
with a wonderful group of people at practice on Wednesday evenings in the Barony
of Sternfeld, Constellation region, Middle Kingdom (Indianapolis, IN).  My kids
and I have enjoyed ourselves thus far, and we plan to be as involved as our busy
lives will allow.
>
> Eadric of Grenfeld
>

Welcome to the group Eadric!

One of the reasons we joined the SCA was so that we could spend more
time with our teenage daughter.  She wasnted to do the archery so we
started as a family.  I hope you and your boys enjoy it as much as we
have.

Lady Rayne

Thank you for the welcome.  Yes, part of the reason my kids and I joined was to
have father and sons time.  My wife is not interested in getting involved, but
she is very glad that the boys and I have the opportunity to have our time
together at archery practice and at an occasional event.
 
Cleve Johnson
lighttrek@...
www.books.lighttrek.com
 
"Fortitudine vincimus"
(By endurance we conquer)





________________________________
From: rayne_of_angels <cargarsmom2@...>
To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 8:04:14 PM
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Greetings

 
Welcome to the group Eadric!

One of the reasons we joined the SCA was so that we could spend more
time with our teenage daughter. She wasnted to do the archery so we
started as a family. I hope you and your boys enjoy it as much as we
have.

Lady Rayne




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]