Richard wrote:

> Put your hand in the air for two lists...S-Trains   and   S-Scale

I'd have to vote for three lists: AF, scale standard, and narrow gauge.
It shouldn't have to be that way, but it is (unfortunately) and I don't
see it ever changing.  But three lists is better than five lists --
that's fer shore.  And I don't care what the names are.

"S"incerely,

  Ed L.

I agree with Paul that 2 lists would be
best. Every day there are 15 to 25
entries on the S-Trains list and to add
all the scale issues would be cumbersome
to wade through. My goal is to grow
the NASG and these lists have nothing
to do with that. These lists are a form of
forum to discuss any issue related to
model railroading. So far I am only seeing
one or two messages a day on the S-Scale
list. Does the sfinescale list or the Proto64
list have many more? It seems that anyone
in S scale model railroading would benefit
from comments if five or ten items were
on one S Scale list a day.

Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Paul Yorke wrote:

I respect Bill Wade and some of the guys
with the long view of things. Let me know
what you think is best. I think subscribers to
both lists (and there is some overlap) will be
happy to see this resolved.

kelvin@... wrote
"Too many lists?
<SNIP>
why did Paul Yorke start the S-Scale list?
<SNIP>
up this rival list. "

You could have asked me.  I would have been happy to tell you.

First , I agree there are too many 'S-Scale' lists.
Second, I thought that a single list called 'S-Scale' would
be better for 'S-Scale' folks to identify.  Every day new people
log onto onelist and S-Trains looking for like minded folks.

The Scale folks expressed a desire for their own list.  I can understand

that desire.  My hope was that they would use S-Scale as their own.  I
offered to turn control of the list to Bill Lane, but
he has not replied to my offer.  I extend this offer to anyone that
agrees
with those of us that think that having a list called S-Scale makes more

sense then one called sfinescale. But that is just my opinion.

There is currently 58 subscribers on S-Scale.

In the past I have pushed to keep everybody on the one (S-Trains)list.
I
have modified my opinion in an attempt to keep everybody happy.

I guess is boils down to 'do you want your list to be called S-Scale',
or
'do you even care'. I agree it does not matter for today, but I hear a
lot
of talk about 'growing the scale', in that case I think it does matter.

If you would prefer that I not mention the S-Scale list on my 'Flyer'
related site, I can do that also.

I respect Bill Wade and some of the guys with the long view of things.
Let me know what you think is best. I think subscribers to both lists
(and
there is some overlap) will be happy to see this resolved.

--
Paul Yorke    -   Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Friends...

I have just received a small supply of custom decals of the NYC diesel
pilot safety stripes in S scale.  These are white diagonal stripes as
used on the pilots of switchers, Geeps, RS units, etc.  They have the
correct width, spacing and angles.  These have never before been
available in S scale/gauge.  Microscale has these same type of stripes
in HO if you want to see what they look like.  These decals are the
safety stripes only (also known as zebra stripes) and do not include
lettering or numbers.  While they last, $3.00 for a set of two (front
and rear of loco).  Send check to:  Ed Loizeaux, 2221 Via Maderos, Los
Altos, CA 94024-7113  At this low price, no dealer discounts (sorry),
but we can discuss large quantity discounts (over 25 sets) for anyone.

"S"incerely,

  Ed Loizeaux

Here are my observations to go with
the pictures Paul Yorke has put on
the web.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nasg99/conv_99.html

As NASG secretary I owe the S scale
crowd a convention report. So here goes.

Yes, I took an hour and a half of  minutes
at the membership meeting on Sunday. I have
started to enter them for executive committee
review and then they go to the NASG Dispatch
for the October issue.

The Convention: I lost 8 hours on Friday
in the airport due to storms in the Chicago
area which delayed all air traffic thus I didn't
get to St. Paul until midnight thus missing the
Board of Trustees meeting. Saturday was
great. Started at 9:00AM Saturday in the
NASG dealer room meeting manufacturers and
seeing our beautiful trains for sale. Most S trains
for sale were at the NASG convention hotel.
We had a NASG table at our hotel as
well as at the NMRA National Train Show
convention center. After lunch at the NASG
hotel, I took the shuttle to the NMRA
convention center. Three levels of all
gauge manufacturers and layouts was
quite impressive. It took about 3 hours to
observe everthing and meet our S suppliers.
I could have spent a few more hours but
I wanted to buy my wife a non train
gift. At 6:00PM we gathered for the NASG
banquet with 120 S gaugers and wives.
So many door prizes had been donated
that just about every one there got a prize.
I didn't take note of all the awards but they
will be in upcoming Dispatches. After a
guest speaker we adjourned to the auction.
Jamie Bothwell MCs the auction and does
a very entertaining job at it. Most items had a
minimum bid and some did not sell because
of high minimums. I recall the NASG at 10%
made over $130 so the gross must have been
over $1300.

The NASG membership meeting was held on
Sunday morning and opened at 9:06AM and
closed at 10:15AM with an additional off the
record discussion about conventions in general.
Those minutes will be in the October NASG
Dispatch. After the meeting we went to Ken
Zieska's for a delicious assortment of S gauge
Soo Line model trains, live Canadian National
trains right through his back yard and food.
This was a great time of fellowship and
a chance to meet many E-Mail friends.
I hope you can join us next year in
San Jose if you know the way.

Staying on NASG track,
NASG Secretary,
Glenn Ritter

Glenn Ritter wrote:

> I was confirmed to be on the S-Scale list but
> to date I am only receiving Richard Snook's
> messages. I am not getting the list or the
> other opinions expressed. I appreciate
> Richard's answers but what are the
> questions?

Glenn, I wouldn't worry,  the S-Scale list is new and there
hasn't been a lot of traffic on it yet.

The pace will probably pick up as the fall new products
season starts up.

Be seeing you
Rich G.

Some one was looking for Larry Graf?

--
Paul Yorke    -   Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Bill Roberts wrote:

> There appear to be a number of S gauge mailing lists. These are the > ones I
> am aware of:
>
> sfinescale [scale]
> Sn3 [narrow gauge]
> S-Trains [AF]
> S-Scale [scale]
> Proto64 [wheel and track]

Y'know I've been pondering a bit....It seems what S scale really needs
is a list dedicated to brass.  We orta have an S-brass list fer shore.
Then, those scratchbuilders need a little something as well.  How about
S-scratch for folks who thrive with little pieces of junk and turn them
into contest winning  models.  Then there is the association of defunct
S publishers with at least a half-dozen known members in the USA alone.
Perhaps S-defpub would be a good name.  Then there is S-import for those
who import brass (as opposed those who buy brass who should use the
S-brass list).....or maybe it is for those who simply feel important?
Anyway, S-import could be used by both importers and important people in
the interests of consolidating redundant messages.  Then, don't forget,
S-misc which covers all topics not already with a list of its' own.
Then there is a list for the female S modelers who are accosted ("hit"
upon, if you know what I mean) at the bar during the NASG convention.
That list is Sh**.  Yas, S has it all.....

Cheers...Ed L.

Glenn,

There appear to be a number of S gauge mailing lists. These are the ones I
am aware of:

sfinescale [scale]
Sn3 [narrow gauge]
S-Trains [AF]
S-Scale [scale]
Proto64 [wheel and track]

You might consider subscribing to one or more of them to see what suits you.

- Bill Roberts

----------
>From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...>
>To: S-Scale <s-scale@onelist.com>
>Subject: [S-Scale] NOT RECEIVING LIST
>Date: Sun, Aug 1, 1999, 5:58 AM
>

> From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...>
>
> I was confirmed to be on the S-Scale list but
> to date I am only receiving Richard Snook's
> messages. I am not getting the list or the
> other opinions expressed. I appreciate
> Richard's answers but what are the
> questions?
>
> Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Glenn

I have noticed this list to be a little flakey...some messages take a while
to come through whilst the S-trains will come through almost
immediatly...same host..figure that one!!  nice to feel appreciated...fell
all warm and fuzzy...but seriously...(not my strong suit)  its a little bit
of a mystery to myself

>:~)) Richard

Glenn Ritter wrote:

> From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...>
>
> I was confirmed to be on the S-Scale list but
> to date I am only receiving Richard Snook's
> messages. I am not getting the list or the
> other opinions expressed. I appreciate
> Richard's answers but what are the
> questions?
>
> Staying on NASG track, Glenn
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Congratulations DALMATIANRESCUE. Our latest ONElist of the week.
> To see full story and submit YOUR ONElist story, go to
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I was confirmed to be on the S-Scale list but
to date I am only receiving Richard Snook's
messages. I am not getting the list or the
other opinions expressed. I appreciate
Richard's answers but what are the
questions?

Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Keith and all

I have to ask,,this parlance is not in my vocabulary...

Aaaaagghhh the ol S train set next to the Dept 56 trick  eh chief!!!

I say it here and again and again ..this would have to be the biggest
gimmee your side of the black stump ( I'll explain that to any one who
enquires)

The potential for gaining "S"sales from this exercise I think could be
truly mind boggling...but like I professed late last year on the
S-trains list...it needs a quantum shift in marketing for any
established "S" manufacturer...because you will be predominanntly
selling to not onl;y non "S" ers but non model
railroaders!!...BUT...BUT...I really think it has fantastic
potential...BACHMANN already know it and got the jump...but there is
always room for one more....
Keep the set cheap and cheerful..your selling an image, an experience
...and get this it is really just an accessory to the ornaments.
Doesn't mean it cant be faithful as a replica of some prototype.

Can't remember the figures I based my original diatribe on (but I'll
find them) ...I don't think its wishing for the moon to sell a minimum
of 50000 units..and this makes many an equation very interesting. Keith
I totally agree with your idea for an improvised set...use what is
existing..re-engineeer it for the Dept 56 crowd...really armortise the
existing debt for this stuff...great..

BACHMANN aren't stupid (not any more) they hit the button ...a smallish
steamer with some coaches...the coaches can be basically the same effort
..make one with a railing on the end...suedo obs......make one
livery.."North Pole express" hell inject the loco and caoaches in
Dickensian Christamas red...who cares...model railroaders aren't buying
it...Dept 56 collectors are.

Keith youre right ..then you add one otr two different pieces of rolling
stock the folling year...put out the original stuff in different garb
for the collectors..then folow it up the next year with another
locomotive ( if all is going well )....

This whole thing has SO much potential !!  It really would be a turning
point for "S"
As Keith re-inforces ...you would have a couple of thousand extra essers
overnight. Almost as impotanr..and probably more so from a manufacturing
point of view, the scope for developing new product gains some serious
foundation.
Stumbling block...money....but a real believer could amass the venture
capital... do we know anyone with a company who might like to take an
investment loss for a couple of years...there is always more than one
way to skin a cat.
Pie in the sky stuff????  I ask you is your glass half empty of half
full??

>:~)) Richard

Since my recent posts I took the time to reread the previous
offerings...boy you must have some unfortunate experiences over on your
sidereagrding shoppiung malls, but as that is where you guys are..maybe
it is not such a jot idea...or is it very regional as to reponses.
I suppose the best target for immediate responses is to show to modelers
from the dark-sides....maybe we could get Lucas to sponsor...sorry
losing the plot here
>:~)) Richard

Hmmm..

Here is an intersting idea ..REALLY...frought with dilemmas..but worth
overcoming.

Such Layouts...and yes due to the bipartisan nature of us , two would
probably be needed.

Food for thought:

Layout is modular (no ifs buts here .obviously has to be)  so after a
design has been adopted...and from here I'll refer to the scale layout
only....then the composing modules to be farmed off to selected (or
those clubs wishing to volunteer their services) clubs to build to the
NASG modular standards. When all modules 95% finished (arbitrary) they
be collected assembled and finished in one locale...why?? to give a
singular consistent finish to layout.

MAterials etc...hit anyone standing still with request for
donations....I,m sure the major players in "S" would be happy to donate
something...its mobile advertising..name on the honour board!!...hit
those lovely magazines thatI just berated before   ( no I have no
conscience <vbg>).. there must be some larger hardware companies around
whose national presence might justify the handing over of some
materials...scenery...hell ..don't have to point very far..this is cross
scale stuff so a good opportunity to showcase a company's wares here.

Transport...simply get (yeah I know not so simple, but if you don't ask,
you don't get) one of the larger self move companies to donate a
suitable trailer...doesn't need to be brand new, but they can have their
logos all over it, such nice people!!

Now some of you are no doubt thinking they must grow a lot of hooch down
in OZ and that I must be smelling a little more than the flowers!!
Well back in my Rotaract/Rotary days we put together conventions and
gala balls , overseas trips etc and the bottom line is networking!! You
will be amazed at what is available for the asking...you just have to
startand keep going til you strike the right people...then believe me
there are alladin's caves.....poviding generally it is for a non-profit
cause....and the greater ggod-health of the community through shared
activities  MUST be a good cause.

Gentleman ...aim high . mightn't reach it...but you  might...or at least
get close enough not to matter.

A alyouit such as this could be borrowed from the organisation and
provide the all all encompassing 3D advert for S-Scale...put it in all
the shows....but especially put it in shopping malls etc...the future of
"S" is in the public arena...not the already converteds.
Fantastic Idea  Bill and George
>:~)) Richard

All

You know I have often thought that given the profitability that model
railroaders give the major players in this hobby, that the likes of Kalmbach and
Carstens would actually GIVE  organisations a bit of a break and provide ,
albeit not huge ads but some form of a free "community service announcement".
geez even broadcasters do it .

I think its a bit rich that these larger publishers seem to want their cake and
eat it too. Maybe there are preferential pricing for non-profit
organisations?????  You think it would be a very opportune way of expressing the
goodwill of this hobby. I do apreciate that Business is Business, but we aren't
selling cars or cereal here we are dealing with a hobby, a pastime...it gets
more personal and interactive. If the majors don't start remembering their
roots, they are in danger of losing touch with the common modeler, and they
become just another throw away mag, as opposed to the cummalitve  library of
knowledge that most of us would treat them as.

You would think it quite magnaminous of  our Wisconsin and New Jersey publishing
friends to offer a little help...or is that too much to expect in this crass
commercial age!!

(think I justbles any writing career)  >:~)) Richard

>
> >
>
> > the NASG should be advertising in the mainstream publications
> ----------
>
> Thank you, Bill, for another thought provoking idea.
>
> I think an effective ad can be developed. What do we want to sell? I think
> at a minimum it should let modelers know that S products are available, that
> the NASG exists and that it has information available. Variations could
> showcase new or existing items from different suppliers. Maybe the supplier
> could share the cost with the NASG. Aren't there any marketing people out
> there who know how to sell things and who can help?
>
> There are a lot of magazines out there, by the way. When Bill Wade writes
> "mainstream" I think Model Railroader and nothing else. MR and Classic Toy
> Trains, for example, are the only model magazines for sale at the downtown
> newstand near my office. For other magazines I have to go to the hobby
> shops. Which reaches our target audience? Which gives the most bang for the
> buck?
>
> - Bill Roberts
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist:  your connection to online communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been awful quite out here.  Guess the BIG
news on S-trains is keeping everyone busy.

Anyhow, my spies at the NASG convention tell me
there's some new brass coming.

I don't have any particulars, but:

River Raisin-
      NKP and Pere Marquette 2-8-4's

Southwind-
      Russian Decapod (Frisco, SAL, WM, MP?)

I don't know about anyone else, but both these are
on my "A" list as far as favorites.  Particularly
the Russian Decapod in a Frisco version.

Before lack of free time became an issue, I was one of the weekend engineers on
Illinois Railway Museum's Frisco 1630 (brag, brag) and have felt
this would be an excellent locomotive for
S-Scale.

Anyone who went to the convention got any more
information about these and other new things?

Be seeing you
Rich G.

Alex Binkley wrote:
>
> So what's the best way of obtaining these wheels -- directly from NWSL,
through
> DPH or BTS or Walthers.
>  cheers

Fred at NWSL says direct is the best way to order. In case you don't
have the info on NWSL, here it is:

Telephone: 206-932-1087
FAX: 206-935-7106
Postal Address:
P.O. Box 423
Seattle WA 98111
USA

Email: info@...

Part numbers and the descriptions:

NWSL #2534-6 -- S scale Proto:S 40" code 88 nickel-plated wheelsets with
precision Delrin® axle gears and brass bearings.

NWSL #2535-6 -- S scale 40" code 110 nickel-plated wheelsets with
precision Delrin® axle gears and brass bearings.

Price of either kit is $29.95 for four wheelsets to do one locomotive.

Availability:
Come 'n' get 'em!

-- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Hi All,

I've compiled a list of Racing Champions Motor Trend Mint Editions
upcoming and recent releases and I thought I'd share them with you so
you can keep your eyes peeled for the autos you want for your layout.
Remember RC has cut the production to 9,999 so grab 'em while you can.
-- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Upcoming:
Issue # Car                           Color
244     1965 Ford Galaxie             Teal
243     1949 Cadillac Coupe DeVille   2-tone Blue
242     1955 Chevy Bel Air            Shadow Grey/Coral
241     1958 Ford Edsel Hardtop       2-tone Black/Red
240     1969 Dodge Charger            Red
239     1956 Chevy Nomad              India Ivory/Dusk Plum
238     1967 Chevy Chevelle SS        Red w/Black Top
237     1937 Cord Phaeton Sedan 812   Yellow w/Black Top

Released:
Issue # Car                           Color
236     1969 Dodge Charger 500        Copper w/Flat Black Top
235     1969 Chevy Corvette           Blue
234     1971 Plymouth GTX             Plum Crazy
233     1970 Dodge Super Bee          Sublime
232     1965 Ford F-100 Pickup        2-tone Teal/White
231     1957 Buick Century            Black
230     1966 Pontiac GTO              Fontaine Blue
229     1977 AMC Pacer                Red
228     1937 Cord Phaeton Sedan 812   Blue
227     1971 Plymouth GTX             Yellow
226     1950 Oldsmobile 88 Club Sedan Dark Red
225     1968 Pontiac Firebird         Dark Green
224     1970 Chevy Chevelle           Desert Sand Metallic
223     1957 Plymouth Fury            Teal
222     1957 Plymouth Fury            Cream

Rich

As you point out it will grow,.....there were over sixty nearlt seventy
on the Proto list....not everyone was interested in proto (an inadequacy
this author fails to understand <vb-grin>).

I doubt that we will ever have quite the same numbers as the S-trains
list , at least not for quite some while. ...but thats not the
point..its not about quantity of numbers...its about topics..

>:~)) Richard

I just did a comparison of the S-Trains & S-Scale
lists.  (Boy, sounds like I need a hobby, perhaps
model railroading?)

Anyway, as of this morning, S-trains has 407 members, and S-Scale has 37
members.

35 folks on S-Scale are also on S-Trains (myself
included.)

Doubtless, the S-Scale list will grow as more folks recover from the convention,
but if the ratio stays roughly the same, one has to ask:
Why bother with separate lists?

Just something to chew on this fine, feathered Monday.

Laters,
Rich G.

In response to Richard's comment about convention pictures...
I would love to publish some photos from the convention.
Please send them to me. I can scan them and return the originals, if you
like.
I prefer that you send me scanned images, Use 75-100 dpi on your
scanner.
JPG is best for photos.
If you send me the actual photos in the mail, its best to send me
copies.
If you want the prints back, include a self addressed envelope.

Always send me the names of the people in the photos and the owners of
any trains, so we can give credit to the correct people.

I am always looking for pictures and content, photos are great.


--
Paul Yorke    -   Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

"sending thids again, not sure it went to the scale list firtat time!!"

I'm not wishing to put the hard word on anyone here, this is just an
idea.

Conventions are a lot of fun, but we don't all get to go. As a way of
feeling like we are there and all, would it be possible that a
convention web page have daily updates, maybe showing news releases,
competition winners with maybe some PIX, images of some layouts on show
...you know all the typical stuff of a big meet.

You don't need a digital camera per se...a video can be link to give
good results.

Oh yeah, sending to these two lists is a LOT easier.

Back to the web page thing, not trying to take away any glory or
exposure that the Mags  give, just thought it might be intersting to
have like an interactive quality to the event.

>:~)) Richard

Anyone have any info on the 6000-8000 gal tank car built by this Co?
As in cost and quality.
Looking for an 8000gal tank.
Thank You
Andrew Baird
Nfld Rlwy
Canada
-

I am making a 36ft old wooden caboose in Sn42.
I was wondering where to find the end pieces (steps,platform,ladder,etc)for
the caboose. Making it out of an old wooden boxcar.
Thank You
Andrew Baird
Nfld Rlwy
Canada

Now that I have your attention, there have been several posts to the
S-Trains list in the past looking for ways to strip chrome off of
plastic. I found a copy of A Scale Auto Enthusiast magazine article that
covers this subject online at
http://www2.scaleautomag.com/scaleauto/features/articlesamples/Decmbr98.pdf.
You'll need an Adobe Acrobat Reader to view the article which you can
download from http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html. Just
thought I'd share that tidbit with you all. Now let's strip! -- Keith
Thompson in Seattle

Richard & ALL,
GREAT IDEA!!! I love it. Hmm, probably work for someone, but how about the
organizing committee, or ???
Would really be neat!!
S'
David D.

I'm not wishing to put the hard word on anyone here, this is just an
idea.

Conventions are a lot of fun, but we don't all get to go. As a way of
feeling like we are there and all, would it be possible that a
convention web page have daily updates, maybe showing news releases,
competition winners with maybe some PIX, images of some layouts on show
...you know all the typical stuff of a big meet.

You don't need a digital camera per se...a video can be link to give
good results.

Oh yeah, sending to these two lists is a LOT easier.

Back to the web page thing, not trying to take away any glory or
exposure that the Mags  give, just thought it might be intersting to
have like an interactive quality to the event.

>:~)) Richard

Hi everyone

Sorry it took me sooo long to get here.  This ought to be a little
surprise for those , at the shows, when they return!!

>:~)) Richard

Yep,
     Well as far as I'm concerned, the Proto 64 people are pushing the
envelope, and that's cool! I may not be "in the game" but I'm in the
bleachers, Rah, Rah, Rah!
     I probably won't be contributing much to this group, as I'm an admitted
Flyer guy, but I will be reading/lurking/and stealing ideas!
S'
David D.

Well, here we are.  Let's see how it goes.

Quite frankly, I didn't have a problem with everything on a common list.  I'm
primarily a scaler, but I have an interest in the hirail end also, as I'm sure
many do.

I'm also a rubber gauger, and can't help but notice that the phenominal growth
of "O" in the last few years was due more the the "dreaded" three-railers than
the two-railers.  But I'll confine the subject to scale on this list from this
point on.

Anyway, we are fortunate that the two primary suppliers of S locomotives and
rolling stock are scale related.  Yeah, I know AM's stuff is pretty generic, but
it's a good stating point for redetailing.  And, if you so inclined and can
bring it up to Proto-64, so much the better.

But, I'm starting to ramble now.  David D. was right!  This soapbox is slippery!

Rich G