Here's a corrected url (thanks to Perlina Varon for catching this ...
cutting and pasting continues to be my nemesis):

The New York Times has a feature on how the site of Belkis is being
threatened by rising waters:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/europe/050700turkey-rome.html


Apologies all around ...

regards,

dm

Our chats on the book "Scipio Africanus, The Man Who Defeated Hannibal" were
scheduled for May 17, June 2, and June 16.

However, I just finished the book and consider it an extremely annoying book
for the following reasons:

1.  At least 90% of the book consists of inaccuracies, distortion or worse;
2. The book is as gloomy as the Hannibal book -- though not as much gore  ;-)

I therefore have made an executive decision :-) to limit the discussions on
Scipio to two chats, in which we will have ample time to discuss Scipio the
Historical Figure -- and I hope Jim Bloom will grace us with his presence and
knowledge.

This will also mean that we will start with the McCullough "Masters of Rome"
series earlier, i.e. the "First Man in Rome" discussion will begin June 16.
So, start getting your hands on the book...more details to follow in due
course...

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Hi:

I am new to the list, but I have my first two McCullough books, am reading
one now and getting
ready for the discussion in June.  Can't wait!  Jane


>Message: 1
>   Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:19:07 EDT
>   From: IrenesBooks@...
>Subject: Scipio Africanus Book Chat
>This will also mean that we will start with the McCullough "Masters of Rome"
>series earlier, i.e. the "First Man in Rome" discussion will begin June 16.
>So, start getting your hands on the book...more details to follow in due
>course...
>
>Irene

Apparently, this message got lost somewhere:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And again...hope this message goes through...SIGH  :-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally mailed 5/9/2000:

"I made a mistake on the dates -- blame the heat wave... ;-)

It's June 7 instead of June 2; and June 21 for McCullough."

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

The correct transcript is this:
http://www.egroups.com/files/Roman_History_Books/hannibal2.htm

We talked about whether or not Hannibal was married and had a son. Our member
"eclectic" checked Lancel: Serge Lancel in his "Hannibal", who discusses
this. She is called  "Similce" in the Leckie novel, Imilce in Lancel's
biography.  So there may have been a wife, but whether there was a son, seems
even more doubtful.

Lancel: "...It may be remembered that [Hannibal's] predecessor, Hasdrubal the
Fair, had taken a Spanish woman as his second wife, soon after succeeding
Hamilcar. In the same way, we learn from Livy (XXIV, 41, 7) that Hannibal
married an Iberian woman from Castulo, one of the most important cities at
that time in upper Andalusia, near Linares. Very early on the town had
aroused the interest of the Phoenicians of Gades because of its mineral
resources, and its ancient wealth had found expression in some of the most
beautiful works of orientalizing art. Silius Italicus tells us a little more
about the bride. She was called Imilce, not from a Greek name as the Latin
poet thinks (Punica, 111, 97-105), but from a well and truly Punic name: it
is quite legitimate to recognize in it the barely modified Semitic root mlk,
the 'chief, the 'king' (Picard, 1967, p. 119). In contrast, it appears harder
to follow Silius any further in his romantic elaborations. Supposedly from
this union a son was born, before the very walls of besieged Saguntum. Before
leaving for Italy, Hannibal took the mother and still young child to Gades,
where he put them on a vessel bound for Carthage, to protect them from the
vicissitudes of war. And the poet shows us this Imilce, fixing her gaze on
the shores of Spain until the ship's progress hides them from her sight. "

Livy apparently only has a brief sentence: "Castulo, a powerful and famous
city of Spain, and in such close alliance with Carthage that Hannibal took a
wife from there, seceded to Rome."

Of Silius Italicus, I found this: " Silius Italicus : The Punica:
Silius' Punica is the longest Latin poem to come down to us, a historical
epic in 12,200 verses (17 books) recounting the events of the Second Punic
War. The poem begins with Hannibal's oath and, except for digressions on
Regulus and Anna, follows events in order until Scipio's triumph after Zama.
Silius' main source was Livy, but the work also encounters Ennius, Virgil and
Lucan. The work positions itself as the 'middle' work in the "Roman Trilogy"
of the Aeneid, Punica and Bellum Civile. The work is at once a celebration of
an ideal past and a realisation that the seeds of later changes were always
there in the nature of Rome : both Scipio and the ambitious Hannibal
prefigure later Roman rulers.

For latinists, here is a text:
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/fld/CLASSICS/silius.html

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Jim Bloom has kindly provided me with a work-in-progress on Scipio, which I
have put on a web page, with linked book reviews by him of two works on
Scipio.

Go here: http://members.xoom.com/placida/scipio.htm

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Here are discussion points for the Scipio Chats:

http://members.xoom.com/placida/discuss.htm

Please e-mail me with your own suggestions to be added to the list.

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Here is a page from the Ancient/Classical Newsletter:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa051200a.htm

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Hello:

I just went and read the comments on Gladiator. As a writer of both
non-fiction and fiction, I have to always ask myself  questions concerning
historical truths, etc.  In all honesty, it's not
historical truths that make a piece of fiction, it's what I like to call
"emotional truths."  The same happens in non-fiction to some degree. Carl
Sagan could always write emotional truths better than anyone because he
understood how to communicate with people.

I know we are about to read McCullough, and she is absolutely brilliant,
but any writer can overwhelm a reader with detail or historical truths.
And already, I feel to a certain degree that she has fallen in love with
her subjects so much that she forgets her audience. Fiction is about
character and their conflicts, it's about finding some emotional truth that
connects the character to their times, remaining true to it as the
character faces confrontation and resolution.  A wonderful historical
writer who does this perfectly is Sheri Holman. Anyone here read  The
Stolen Tongue?  Or The Dress Lodger?

In closing, I think Ridley Scott's film was a great success in storytelling
and also in film making.  Some of those shots were stunning. You could
certainly see his training as an artist.  The landscapes, those rose petals
in the arena.  I don't think I will ever forget those red rose petals in
the arena, and how they drifted through the air.  Also, the character of
Maximus was perfect.  And that is what carries a film or a piece of
fiction.  Not perfect historical details.

Jane

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

First of Two Scipio Chats

Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2000
Time: 9:00PM - 10:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

A reminder that we meet at the above date and time for our first
chat on "Scipio, The Man Who Defeated Hannibal" by Ross Leckie,
as well as the historical Scipio.

For details and background readings please go to
http://members.xoom.com/placida/booklist2.htm.

For discussion points, please go directly to
http://members.xoom.com/placida/discuss.htm. Please e-mail me
with your own input of this list.

We meet in the Ancient Classical History Chat Room
http://ancienthistory.about.com/mpchat.htm.

For new members, I suggest a trial sign on.
A note for AOL'ers: It's best to first clear your cache, i.e.
delete your temporary internet files via "My AOL" /
"Preferences" / "www", and then click on your computer's browser
to sign on to the chat.

See you Wednesday!

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Sorry, something went wrong! Will upload the transcript again.

Unfortunately, everytime I upload a file you will be notified...darn
nuisance... ;-)

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Another try...please bear with me...

Irene

From issue 3.3:

FOLLOWUPS

News continues to come in about Belkis/Zeugma (thanks to Bill Kennedy for
the heads up on one of these):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000518/aponline050237_000.htm
http://library.northernlight.com/FA20000516940000094.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/5279.asp?cp1=1

... as does various approaches to criticizing/praising the movie Gladiator
(this week the emphasis seems to be on the historicity of the film):

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/05/17/timfeafea02006.html
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/05/17/timfeafea01007.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000405944438668&rtmo=lnFSAknt&atmo=HHHHHH8L&\
pg=/et/00/5/14/wzeug14.html
http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/articles/051200-gladiator.shtml
http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/gladiator/index.html


dm

In preparation for our upcoming book chats on on "The Masters of Rome"
series, Ancient/Classical History Editor N.S. Gill has put together a page on
the life and times of Marius in her most recent newsletter:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/education/ancienthistory/library/weekly/aa0523
00a.htm
----------------------------------------

On another note, I apologize for the strange appearance of the chat log from
last week, I wasn't able to fix the weird format...

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Some items of interest (I include some Near Eastern items which will
probably be subjects of discussion around the krater as well):

The big news of the week seems to be the excavation at Tell Hamoukar, which
is pushing back the date for the creation of 'civilization'. Here's more
coverage than you can shake your trowel at (thanks to John Carr and Louis
Okin for some of what follows):

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/egyptmayor000523.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000523/aponline070301_000.htm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/Science/2000-05/6000yrcity240500.shtml
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/052300sci-archaeo-syria.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/metro/chicago/article/0%2C2669%2CART-44932%2C\
FF.html
http://www.csmonitor.com:80/durable/2000/05/25/p3s1.htm
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000523/history_syria.html

The Turkish Cypriot press has a brief item on the discovery of a 5th
century B.C.E. cemetery:

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/2000/00-05-23.tcpr.html#05

Inside Denver has a nice feature on Paolo Visona and his excavation of what
is possibly Mamertion:

http://insidedenver.com:80/news/0525close.shtml

The Times of London has a touristy piece on various amphitheatres which are
found in the blessed realm:

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/05/27/timtrltrl02014.html


EXHIBITS

The San Francisco Examiner has a report on an exhibit at SFSU on Daily Life
in Ancient Rome:

http://www.sfgate.com:80/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/05/22/\
DD93843.DTL

The Art Newspaper has a report on and exhibition at the Israel Museum in
Jerusalem which features various artifacts documenting the early history of
Christianity:

http://www.allemandi.com/TAN/archaeology/archeology.asp

FOLLOWUPS

The big followup news is the reportage which came hot on the heels of Fox's
"Opening of the Tombs" special last week (which I missed, because it was a
long weekend in Canada and so I thought Tuesday was actually Monday ...
d'oh!). Here's all kinds of coverage, including (at the end) a link to
Fox's own coverage (which has some video, but not, apparently, the whole
two hour special) and a link to Zahi Hawass' site, which has more on the
Barhariyah Oasis discoveries:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/egyptmayor000523.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000523/aponline234010_000.htm
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/05/25/timfgnafr02002.html
http://news2.thls.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid%5F761000/761333.stm
http://www.exn.net/html/templates/htmlpage.cfm?ID=20000524-55
http://www.foxnews.com/science/egypt/story_nine_new.sml
http://guardians.net/hawass/

SAGAS

More on the Elgin Marbles in the wake of an international conference:


http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/05/25/timfgneur01001.html
http://www.hri.org/news/greek/mpa/2000/00-05-24.mpa.html#06

Irene thought you would all like to check out this site I found while
researching the Roman-Jewish Wars.

http://home.wxs.nl/~lende045/

The Dutch host, Jona Lendering, has put together a fascinating and
insightful group of reviews. Though without benefit of a PhD., I
think you will find his background quite sufficient, his range of
ancient civilizations and topics eclectic and his style and approach
refreshing.

Enjoy.

In a message dated 6/3/00 10:57:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
Jimmyjb@... writes:

<< http://home.wxs.nl/~lende045/ >>

Thanks

Vel Garnett

(Note: This is mainly for eclectic and Jim Bloom, to whom I promised a
summary of the Scipio novel by Ross Leckie. If anyone has to add something to
this, please do it here.)

I had promised you a summary of the Scipio novel.  Please excuse the delay.

N.S. Gill found a bunch of reviews of the book on Fred Mench's Website, which
give you a good overview.
http://www.stockton.edu/~roman/fiction/leckie.htm#scipio

To the errors mentioned in the last review I have to add these:

The book has Scipio's mother die during Lucius' childbirth. On the contrary,
she was very much alive and lobbied for her sons whenever they were in
trouble with the Senate. Lucius is actually the *older* brother, and I don't
think he was the adversary as Bostar (Leckie) makes him out. This is all
supposed to show Scipio's lonely upbringing, with his father mostly absent,
but ameliorated by the companionship of the socially inferior Laelius.
Laelius then is depicted of always being jealous of Scipio and trying to do
him harm during the trial -- same as Lucius. This does not tally with the
fact that much of Polybius' information about Scipio came from Laelius.
Scipio is also depicted as a very young know-it-all, critical of his father's
military decisions.

Nowhere is a marriage mentioned and thus no children, and the inference is
that Scipio was homosexual and Bostar in the end revealed as his lover. In
fact, Scipio had several children.

The book alternates between Scipio's memoirs,  which he dictates to Bostar
(while he is waiting for the verdict in his trial and he is dying), and
Bostar's comments/reminiscences on the margins.

As to Bostar: Carol, you may remember, in the Hannibal novel, that Bostar
decided to stay behind in Italy.  He undergoes an number of tribulations
until he ends up in Capua in the house of one Labienus. There he finds out
that there lives in Capua a child who is a natural son of Hannibal. (Hannibal
the heterosexual, Scipio the homosexual?) At Labienus' house he eventually
meets Scipio and becomes his secretary. Bostar inherits riches from Scipio
and moves to Macedonia, taking Hannibal's son with him.

The book's epilogue is written by Hanno, son of Hannibal. The last paragraph
reads "I am young. The events that Scipio has described formed the world and
begat me. Bostar will find my father, and bring him here. Then we three will
learn the ways of love and life, not death and war. The sky is bright and
blue. The light is clear and pure."

Presumably, novel #3 will start from there, and heaven knows what alternative
history we'll get from thereā€¦

Like the Hannibal novel, the narrative dwells much longer on the
protagonist's youth than on the rest of his life, which makes both novels
lopsided.

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

I don't think you are getting that close to the Flavians yet, but this might be
something for the back burner.
Plus it's a great example of a novelist concentrating on a certain defined
period
evaluating a non-fictional biography in that period. Anyhow, it's well written
and fun to read.

Vespasian' by Barbara Levick
                                 an Appreciation by Lindsey Davis

                      Some of us have been waiting years for this book. I was
allowed to read a small
                      section quite a long time ago, lest I commit unseemly
errors
in my fictional
                      biography of Antonia Caenis, Vespasian's ladylove. Barbara
Levick does not
                      despise popular fiction; she is as rooted in real life as
her down-to-earth subject
                      must have been. Indeed, it is only because I know her to be
an extremely jolly
                      woman, and a fan of crime fiction, that I dare to comment
on
a work of such
                      immense erudition in a discipline that is not mine.

                      That there was no major modern biography of Vespasian had
been a howling
                      omission, and luckily the need to evaluate the Flavian
dynasty as a whole allows
                      Titus and Domitian to be hauled in alongside their father.
(Three for the price of
                      one: how Vespasian would have loved it!) We may never know
much more about
                      any of them personally than can be cautiously extracted
from
their near
                      contemporaries: Suetonius in particular, bursting with a
tabloid desire to sneer at
                      these middle-class upstarts - yet not quite daring to
rubbish their political
                      achievements in case he then looks incompetent. Even
Josephus, their tame hack,
                      has more to say to re-enactment groups about the Roman
army's methods and kit
                      than he can tell any of us about the men who led it. As
biographers, these chaps
                      are, I fear, strangers to the Eng Lit concept of a
'well-rounded character', posing
                      problems which have to be skated round deftly by both
Barbara and me in our
                      different spheres.

                      Her method here, firstly, is to write history for
grown-ups,
not for wimps who need
                      the story explained. Sticking with the Eng Lit analogy, you
are expected to have
                      read the book under discussion and be ready to do some
critical analysis. Once
                      you wake up and pay attention, of course, this is fine. The
no-nonsense, 'let's get
                      down to it' approach admirably suits her subject. Briefings
in a Flavian camp or
                      court must have been just as polite, yet just as brisk and
factual. And there really is
                      a story too, one which she enjoys telling. She takes flight
in fine fashion when
                      relating the great Judaean campaign and its inextricably
interlinked manoeuvres to
                      make Vespasian Emperor. As political and military history,
this matches anything in
                      Caesar, and is all the better for having at its centre a
man
you can warm to.

                      The man is vital. We see, moreover, that Vespasian was the
proverbial right man at
                      the right time. Acquiring the Empire at sixty, he had
maturity and experience - plus
                      convenient heirs. While definitely not a man 'with nothing
to prove' (he was given
                      an unexpected chance and certainly meant to make the best
of
it), yet in some ways
                      he could relax; he lacked the dreadful po-faced striving
for
effect that characterised
                      earlier emperors and even damaged his own sons. Taking over
Rome when things
                      could hardly have been worse, his task was enormous. As she
examines the
                      geographical and institutional fabric of that empire,
Barbara Levick shows how he
                      rebuilt each element intelligently and systematically,
aided
by the careful
                      deployment of trusted personnel.

                      This is where she triumphs. I was struck by the enormous
range of people,
                      previously mere names in arcane textbooks, who are for the
first time illuminated by
                      swift character sketches, then given their precise
relevance
to events, their
                      marriage ties mentioned, their personal aspirations subtly
judged. For me, the
                      book's finest achievement is this portrait of the whole
Flavian period. Society in the
                      AD70's and 80's comes alive in a way that normally only
happened with the
                      devious personalities on the long road to Actium and those
hackneyed
                      Julio-Claudians. How refreshing to explore a new cast.
(Even
better that so many of
                      them seem to be honest 'doers' and 'fixers'.) The detail is
stupendous. This is true
                      scholarship. And it has a particular point: Levick
persuades
us that Vespasian had
                      a genuine wish to do right. He was rebuilding the Empire
not
for a private
                      challenge, like a hobbyist perfecting a matchstick model,
but really to create a
                      decent, rewarding environment for the people who lived
there.

                      Ultimately she sets his achievement in context, judged as
it
now surely ought to be
                      as the foundation for the Second Century heyday that has
always seemed more
                      glamorous - for reasons I could never understand, because
what could be more
                      interesting and exciting than to change chaos and
bankruptcy
into a system that
                      runs well, where most people are content? And come to that,
why should the
                      Decline and Fall of an Empire fascinate so much more than
its establishment and
                      rise? We live in a corrupt and jaded society. It is
encouraging to remember that
                      after great cycles of ruin there may come renewal.

                      I am a closet administrator so I was bound to love this
book. Just why did that
                      famous Vespasianic charge on urine attract such attention?
It was a tax-efficient,
                      environmentally useful, brilliantly simple, humorous fiscal
measure. Anyone who
                      has been any kind of administrator has to marvel. Anyone
who
could invent it, has
                      to be appealing.

                      So the subject matter attracts in itself: the portrait of
an
era, the tale-telling of
                      events, the triumph of the man. There is another aspect.
Barbara Levick's
                      'Vespasian' represents her own lifetime achievement as a
historian and a teacher.
                      For me it exemplifies what scholarship should be: the
meticulous search for
                      information not just because it is proper, but because it
is
also fun; the intelligent
                      and practical judgement; the continuing evaluation of
material; the desire to
                      communicate; the sudden flash of wit that thrills. All of
those are here. Any
                      student of the period will need this book - and what's
more,
it will have its place in
                      the creation of crime fiction too.


                      Lindsey Davis 1999


                      Lindsey Davis is the bestselling author of the celebrated
Marcus Didius Falco
                      series of detective novels set in ancient Rome. Her latest
book is One Virgin Too
                      Many. Lindsey Davis was Honorary President of the Classical
Association in
                      1997/1998.

While we are on the subject of Levick biographies: She also wrote one on
Claudius.

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

As we are moving from Scipio Africanus to Marius in our bi-monthly book
chats, what then about the interim era?

This would be mainly the Gracchi.

N.S. Gill has a page of links on the Gracchi:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/msub_gracchi.htm

To this I would like to add the unabridged Plutarch:
http://classics.mit.edu//Plutarch/tiberius.sum.html (Tiberius Gracchus)
http://classics.mit.edu//Plutarch/gracchus.sum.html (Caius Gracchus)

There is also a book:
David Stockton
The Gracchi
Clarendon Press, Oxford
ISBN 0198721056

Comments and discussion are invited here and at the Ancient/Classical History
Forum,  http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start .

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Items of interest from my newsletter:

Two items strike me as qualifiying as 'big news', although they aren't
receiving equal coverage. The first is the discovery by Goddio and his crew
of what appears to be the submerged remains of the cities of Herakleion,
Canopis, and Menouthis in Abukir Bay (most of the coverage comprises
variations on AP and/or Reuters stories ... the Times of London coverage
was a 'web special' and has photos etc.; BBC coverage is pretty good as well):

http://www.the-times.co.uk/onlinespecials/world/egypt/
http://news2.thls.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle%5Feast/newsid%5F775000/77555\
8.stm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000603/aponline144910_000.htm
http://cnn.com:80/2000/WORLD/meast/06/03/bc.egypt.lostcities.ap/index.html
http://abcnews.go.com:80/sections/world/DailyNews/cities000603.html
http://www.msnbc.com:80/news/415945.asp?cp1=1
http://www.herald.com:80/content/today/digdocs/082760.htm
http://www.abc.net.au:80/news/newslink/weekly/newsnat-4jun2000-23.htm
http://news.excite.com/news/r/000603/15/science-egypt-archaeology

CLASSICISTS' CORNER

Some items in the press which will appeal especially to the Classicists
among us include Wilfred Stroh's reading of Book 4 of the Aeneid (in Latin)
as part of Ohio University's 'Panathenaia' (thanks to William Owens for the
heads up) (requires RealPlayer):

http://www.tcom.ohiou.edu/books/aeneid/


The Bergen Record has a feature on Dorothy Belle Pollack, a one-woman
outreach machine:

http://www.bergen.com:80/region/classicds200006012.htm

The Courier Press has a nice feature on retiring Latin teacher Jane Ann
Reinitz (watch the wrap):

http://www.courierpress.com:80/cgi-bin/view.cgi?200005/29+retiringteach052900_ne\
ws.html+20000529

A feature on the revival of Latin in Cleveland:

http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/news/ohio/docs/023830.htm

BOOK REVIEWS

The LATimes has a review of A.D. Marcus *The View from Nebo: How
Archaeology is  Rewriting the Bible and Reshaping the Middle East*:

http://www.latimes.com:80/news/state/20000603/t000052469.html

The San Francisco Chronicle has a review (sort of) of A. Mayor's *The First
Fossil Hunters: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times*

http://www.sfgate.com:80/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/hotnews/stories/03/m\
onsterssun.dtl

The Lebanon Star has a review (again, sort of) of the third revised edition
of *Byblos Through the Ages*:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb:80/03_06_00/art3.htm

SAGAS

The Greek president was in Canada this week and Canadian Classical
archaeologists might be surprised/dismayed/heartened to know that our
government apparently is backing Greece's claim to have the Elgin Marbles
returned to them (the story is buried in a long account of the president's
visit ... it's the first article on the following page):

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/ana/2000/00-05-30.ana.html

ON THE NEWSSTANDS

Discovering Archaeology has a number of items of interest this week,
including features on the 'cradle of agriculture', Ancient Petra,
revisionism in regards to an ancient Syrian goddess, and stuff about the
tv-opening of the Barhariyah tombs. Access to all from:

http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Final Scipio Chat

Date: Wednesday, June 7, 2000
Time: 9:00PM - 10:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

A reminder that we meet at the above date and time for our
second and final chat on "Scipio, The Man Who Defeated Hannibal"
by Ross Leckie, as well as the historical Scipio.

For details and background readings please go to
http://members.xoom.com/placida/booklist2.htm.

We meet in the Ancient Classical History Chat Room
http://ancienthistory.about.com/mpchat.htm.

For new members, I suggest a trial sign on.
A note for AOL'ers: It's best to first clear your cache, i.e.
delete your temporary internet files via "My AOL" /
"Preferences" / "www", and then click on your computer's browser
to sign on to the chat.

See you Wednesday!

Our next book will be "First Man in Rome" in the "Masters of Rome" series by
Colleen McCullough.

For details, please go to http://members.xoom.com/placida/booklist2.htm . I
will be adding information to that page as I get it.

Any additional background reading you may know of, please let me know.

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/ (recently updated!)
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

I have added some books to the Page "Currently Reading":
http://members.xoom.com/placida/booklist2.htm

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

Items of interest from the newsletter of record:

OLD WORLD NEWS

The Independent reports on some metal detector types' discovery of a rather
major Roman coin hoard:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/This_Britain/2000-06/roman100600.shtml

The Age has a report on the discovery of a Roman era vessel decorated with
tons of gladiator scenes (thanks to Martin Wallace for the heads up):

http://www.theage.com.au/news/20000611/A54936-2000Jun10.html

Frankfurther Allgemeine has an article by Paul Zanker on the Imperial fora
(this one's in English, but has a scary wrap)(thanks to Birgitta Hoffmann
for the heads up):

http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/docmain.asp?sub={F1B72E51-3783-11D4-A3AA-\
009027BA22E4}&doc={97397035-33E2-11D4-A3AA-009027BA22E4}

L'Hebdo (a Swiss newspaper) has an article (in French) on the suggestion
that a bust of Marcus Aurelius might be Julian (thanks to Sally Winchester
for the heads up):

http://www.webdo.ch/hebdo/hebdo_2000/hebdo_23/rome3_23.html

(the article doesn't include a photo of the bust, but there's one at

http://www.lausanne.ch/musees/archeo.htm

CLASSICISTS' CORNER

An interesting article on what Virgil might inspire someone to do:

http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?ei=1881656&ern=y

A piece in the Dallas Morning News has an interesting comment on Latin:

http://dallasnews.com/lifestyles/books/92842_FW11.html

The Montreal Gazette has a piece on why Latin used to be useful (which is
not the conventional view) and what has replaced it:

http://www.montrealgazette.com:80/editorial/pages/000604/4218615.html


FOLLOWUPS

More on the discoveries in Abukir Bay:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/415945.asp
http://www.iht.com:80/IHT/TODAY/TUE/IN/cities.2.html
http://abcnews.go.com:80/sections/science/DailyNews/turkish_city000605.html
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/06/05/timfgnmid02002.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/World/Africa/2000-06/frozen050600.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000405944438668&rtmo=wAjwstAb&atmo=hhhhhhhe&\
pg=/et/00/6/5/warc05.html

As for Zeugma, there are a couple of good things to say ... there has been
a reprieve of ten days or so given to the inundation of the lower city; in
addition, there is going to be a massive excavation effort in the upper
city, which won't be under water until October or thereabouts:

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/06/06/timfgneur02002.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_784000/784673.stm
http://www.msnbc.com/news/413949.asp

SAGAS

More Elgin Marbles stuff (some editorial -- watch the wrap on the Telegraph
pieces):

http://www.post-gazette.com:80/forum/20000608edelgin3.asp
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/06/09/timpolpol01003.html
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/06/06/timnwsnws02011.html
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/2000/06/05/timfgneur02005.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000405944438668&rtmo=QxzQ9Q0R&atmo=99999999&\
pg=/et/00/6/9/nelg09.html

BOOK REVIEWS

Also in Frankfurter Allgemeine (and in English) is a review of Accardo et
al *Marc Aurel. Der Reiter auf dem Kapitol* (again, watch the wrap) (again,
thanks to Birgitta Hoffmann for the heads up):

http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/docmain.asp?sub={F1B72E98-3783-11D4-A3AA-\
009027BA22E4}&doc={715C656A-3963-11D4-B98C-009027BA226C}

In the last two days or so, on the Ancient Classical Forum, McCullough's
reference to the difficulty of reading letters was questioned, and the
discussion moved to another thread "The invention of spaces between words" .

You can follow the discussion via the links below:

1. McCullough:

http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/messages?msg=824.4

<>

2. The invention of spaces between words

http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/messages?msg=831.1

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

More Roman Fiction of the Late Republic:

When searching for literature on Sulla on Amazon.com, the following book came
up:
The Door in the Wall
by Benita Kane Jaro

The review leads to another book by the same author:

"Roman politician Marcus Caelius Rufus (82-48 B.C.), whose letters are
included in the correspondence of Cicero and who once mounted a revolt
against Caesar, now tells his own story. In Jaro's The Key (1988), Caelius
narrated the life of the poet Catullus."

Has anyone read those books?

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start

I got this comment as part of a private mail to me from a group member:

"I've read The Door in the Wall.  Liked it a lot until the ending, which
disappointed me immensely because it seemed to indicate that the author's
real motivation was other than historical.  Overall, not too bad, though."

Irene
http://members.xoom.com/placida/
Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start