... Democrats might split their votes between their two candidates even if they have majority. (These cases are not really in line with the example since in...
8712
warren_d_smith31
warren_d_smi...
Aug 4, 2008 6:14 pm
... --what'll presumably happen in the R vs D vs D approval-voting scenario (which is also what raphfrk had said, but I will repeat) is this: 1. If the...
8711
Juho
juho4880
Aug 4, 2008 6:03 am
... I may have given the impression that I'd promote solving the Approval related problems by arranging such primaries. I don't find that to be a good...
8710
Juho
juho4880
Aug 4, 2008 5:53 am
... No. Voters of both parties are alike. They all favour their own party first, but also have interest to determine which one of the Democrats would win if...
8709
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 4, 2008 12:08 am
What this is best at is proving that we sometimes need better methods, such as Condorcet. Struggling with Approval rather than letting voters express their...
8708
warren_d_smith31
warren_d_smi...
Aug 3, 2008 11:40 pm
... --exactly. The whole scenario had been silly since it pre-supposed only one side (the democrats) included strategists, then it got problematic results --...
8707
Juho
juho4880
Aug 3, 2008 8:25 pm
... If Democrats start approving only one of the Democrat candidates then Republicans could cancel their plan to approve also one of the Democrats. As a result...
8706
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 3, 2008 3:36 am
... How certain are these auditors that they get to see exactly all the ballots that got voted? Just noting that, with any scheme, you need to look for cracks....
8705
Joyce McCloy
ncverifiable...
Aug 3, 2008 3:05 am
The activists in the e-voting movement do not advocate for receipts to go home with the voter. What we want is a paper ballot marked by the voter and it can be...
8704
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 3, 2008 2:51 am
Plurality only lets me rank one candidate above the rest - not much, but often all I care for. Approval lets me rank candidates in two groups, one equally...
8703
warren_d_smith31
warren_d_smi...
Aug 3, 2008 2:12 am
... --I was speaking of paper trials in the sense that the paper ballots are stored in a warehouse and an be recounted if necessary....
8702
raphfrk
Aug 3, 2008 12:05 am
... What are 'caring voters'? For approval, some tactics are required for optimal voting. However, even with less than perfect option poll data, the result is...
8701
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 2, 2008 10:44 pm
All this really demonstrates is that Plurality and Approval are not good enough for caring voters. DWK ... -- davek@......
8700
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 2, 2008 10:43 pm
Better, treat all write-ins as a single candidate. That candidate will usually be proved a loser with little pain or effort. If not, punt to smarter code -...
8699
raphfrk
Aug 2, 2008 9:50 pm
... I agree, and don't think it is a minority viewpoint. The point of paper trails is that there is some physical record of each person's vote. The most...
8698
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 2, 2008 9:36 pm
Agreed that paper trails are not a solution, but I would aim more carefully. Our enemy is the "Flynn machine" and that is what we need to address, recognizing...
8697
raphfrk
Aug 2, 2008 9:17 pm
... This cuts both ways. There is also an incentive for Republican voters to approve McCain and one of the Democrats. This could result in a Democrat win even...
8696
raphfrk
Aug 2, 2008 8:19 pm
... Another option would be to do the count in a 2 stage process. In the first step, the condorcet winner of the candidates on the ballot is determined. Once...
8695
Bruce R. Gilson
brg1942
Aug 2, 2008 7:05 pm
I seem to have a distinctly minority opinion here. I am _opposed_ to this movement to provide "paper trails" -- at least, if they are in the form that a voter...
8694
Juho
juho4880
Aug 2, 2008 6:23 pm
... If all Democrats approve both Clinton and Obama (and all Republicans approve McCain only) then we nicely elect a Democrat if they have majority or a...
8693
warren_d_smith31
warren_d_smi...
Aug 2, 2008 3:49 pm
NIST in a report which soon was quashed, came up with the buzzword "software independence" to describe what they wanted in voting machines. The concept is...
8692
Stephen Unger
steve.unger
Aug 2, 2008 2:14 pm
... ******** I don't understand the problem. Why wouldn't the D's simply approve both Clinton and Obama and not approve McCain? ... ********* Why would...
8691
Bruce R. Gilson
brg1942
Aug 2, 2008 1:37 pm
... Actually the case that I think is the WORST for AV (but also a 3 front- runner case, so with that much of Juho's statement I concur) is where there is a...
8690
Juho
juho4880
Aug 2, 2008 6:16 am
... Also AV has some quite serious problems with three frontrunners, e.g. in the 25% Clinton, 25% Obama, 50% McCain case. The Democrats have no sensible way to...
8689
Joyce McCloy
ncverifiable...
Aug 2, 2008 1:29 am
That is an excellent write up about the 18,000 undervotes for the Florida Sarasota 13 congressional race. It shows that administering elections is very...
I am happy to have you contributing to our discussions. (In a web article that I wrote about the Sarasota undervote mystery, I referred to your note about a...
8686
Dave Ketchum
daveket2001
Aug 1, 2008 6:08 pm
Agreed that cycles are a major Condorcet debate item, that they do complicate life a bit, and that I did not mention them in my last post. HOWEVER, they are...
8685
Juho
juho4880
Aug 1, 2008 5:59 pm
... In such situations some Condorcet methods put more emphasis on finding the best winner, some put more emphasis on minimizing the strategic threats. ... I...
8684
Bruce R. Gilson
brg1942
Aug 1, 2008 3:19 pm
... And that requires one other point being made, which he didn't state, but which is the major difficulty of Condorcet methods. A Condorcet method -- any...
